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lamberts-lost-tooth
09-08-2006, 08:24 AM
Miami fans blame loss on late flag

By The Associated Press
Friday, September 8, 2006


Referee Walt Coleman stood waiting patiently for the red flag he sensed was coming from the Miami Dolphins' sideline. A minute or so before, the Steelers had gone ahead on a scoring play that may have taken tight end Heath Miller out of bounds, and there was no reason not to challenge.
Still, the challenge flag remained firmly in Dolphins coach Nick Saban's hand. Even as the teams lined up for the extra point. Even as center Greg Warren leaned over the ball before snapping it to holder Chris Gardocki.

Finally, the flag requesting a replay review fluttered to the turf, only no official was watching as Jeff Reed converted the kick. Saban was a moment too late ? to challenge to call and, perhaps, to save the game for the Dolphins.

Can a coach be penalized for delay?

"The officials said they didn't see it," Saban said. "Whose fault is that?"

To a few Dolphins fans, the blame for a 28-17 loss to Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh in the NFL's season-opening game Thursday night might not rest entirely on the players. No doubt a few were asking themselves, "Why didn't he throw the flag earlier?"

Miller's 87-yard scoring catch with about six minutes remaining was one of the longest in history by an NFL tight end and gave Pittsburgh a 21-17 lead. The problem was it probably should have been an 85-yard catch, and no touchdown.

TV replays showed Miller going out of bounds and, if Saban had challenged in time, the Steelers probably would have been forced to try to score from around the 2-yard line. The previous time they had the ball so close, quarterback Charlie Batch fumbled at the Miami 1 with the Dolphins recovering.

Maybe that's why Coleman seemed as surprised as anyone when he didn't see the flag. By the time Saban tossed it, the officials were focused on the extra-point try.

"After the ball was snapped, we can't go back to the previous snap," Coleman said. "Once they snapped the ball on the try, there was nothing we could do."

Saban contends he threw the flag in time.

"It was well before the kicker kicked it," Saban said. "The official said he didn't see it, and when he said he didn't see it, there was nothing he could do. That shouldn't happen."

Saban's mistake was the most curious on a night neither team all played that well, but it wasn't the only one by the Dolphins. Daunte Culpepper, the former Vikings quarterback playing his first game since tearing three knee ligaments last year, was intercepted twice following Miller's score. One was a 42-yard touchdown return by linebacker Joey Porter that effectively ruined Culpepper's debut game with the Dolphins.

The Super Bowl champion Steelers had plenty of reasons to win their ninth in a row, including backup quarterback Charlie Batch's three touchdown passes, Willie Parker's 115 yards rushing and Porter's big play. Yet they easily could have lost, and they knew it, especially after falling behind 17-14 in the third quarter on Ronnie Brown's 5-yard touchdown run.

Miller also knows he was lucky his score counted. Asked afterward if he was certain he got in, he said, laughing, "Touchdown. Yeah."

"It didn't go as well as we liked it to. If we had scripted it, it probably wouldn't have been like that," Miller said. "It was scrappy game but we came out on top."

Without Ben Roethlisberger, too, as the quarterback sat out after having his appendix removed on Sunday. Batch took his place and had his first three TD pass game since 2001 with Detroit. He had thrown only one scoring pass the previous four seasons combined.

"The guys are comfortable with Charlie," said Hines Ward, who returned from a monthlong hamstring injury layoff to make a 7-yard touchdown catch that put the Steelers up 14-7. "You have to remember that Charlie was 2-0 when he was the starter last year."

The Steelers don't play again until a Monday night game at Jacksonville on Sept. 18 and, despite Batch's effective play, they are hopeful Roethlisberger can return that night.

The Dolphins also expect to come back from this, a disappointing loss in a game they probably shouldn't have won ? not on a night they were outrushed 143-38 ? but one they felt they could have won.

"We played well into the fourth quarter, but you can't turn the ball over in this league," Culpepper said. "We're better than that. We know we're better than that."

The Steelers believe they are, too. Maybe that's why Porter planted a kiss on coach Bill Cowher following his first career interception return touchdown.

"I try to tell you guys that me and him are close," Porter said.

Notes: Miller's catch was 3 yards short of tying for the longest in Steelers history. ... A moment of silence was held before the game for Pittsburgh Mayor Bob O'Connor, who was buried earlier in the day. O'Connor died of brain caner on Friday. ... Steelers WR Nate Washington's 27-yard touchdown catch in the second quarter was his first NFL regular-season reception. ... Porter also had two sacks. ... The Steelers are 31-0-1 in the last 32 games they have a 100-yard rusher.

Steelers
09-08-2006, 08:27 AM
:blah:

Statik
09-08-2006, 08:36 AM
Bottom line.....he didn't throw the flag out to a point that the ref's could see it.

If it was Cowher, he would have had one of the line judges standing next to him by the sidelines and dropped the flag right in front of him. As far as I'm concerned, Saban didn't get his challenge in time or correctly for that matter. Hell he double clutched before he threw it, and then threw it 2 feet in front of him. HIT THE DAMN REF IF YOU HAVE TO.

Oh well, sucks for Miami.

nicesteel4life
09-08-2006, 08:39 AM
CRY A BIG TEAR FOR MIAMI..........

Stlrs4Life
09-08-2006, 08:41 AM
He had more than enough time to throw the flag.

Mosca
09-08-2006, 08:42 AM
Bah. Saban was bring a drama queen. He held that flag until the last minute on purpose. He gave a BS excuse about "waiting to see it on the box", but he knows the truth. If the viewing audience can see it on replay 3 times before the PAT try, then the coaches can see it once and relay the info to the bench. Saban wasn't doing a whole lot to make himself visible.

It won't matter, he won't ever accept the blame to himself. But that's where it lies. Saban did it to himself due to his flair for the dramatic. But you can't ice the ref.


Tom

HometownGal
09-08-2006, 09:21 AM
"It was well before the kicker kicked it," Saban said. "The official said he didn't see it, and when he said he didn't see it, there was nothing he could do. That shouldn't happen."


Well, Nick - next time, don't wait until the clock strikes twelve and put a little umph behind your throw instead of tossing it out there like a limp wristed little puss. Boo frickity hoo. :blah: You have a yap and could have used it instead of waving your arms like a crazed maniac, incorrectly assuming that Coleman had eyes in the back of his head. Want some cheese with that whine? :rolleyes:

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-08-2006, 09:46 AM
Cohwer would have whipped the ref around and stuck the red flag in his shirt pocket...ala the "twelve men on the field" photo.

..theres a memory for ya!!!!

clevestinks
09-08-2006, 09:50 AM
Boo friggin hoo.

The deep pass from Batch with a blatant interference penalty that wasn`t called didn`t help us. It wouldn`t have been so bad but the ref had perfect position.

We won. Standings show Steeler 1-0-0
miami 0-1-0

bengalsfan21
09-08-2006, 09:53 AM
Miami lost because they lost the momentum when they had Pitts at a 3rd and 16 they got the illeagal hands to the face call.

83-Steelers-43
09-08-2006, 09:54 AM
This is what happens when your team is overhyped by the media for a whole offseason and you get beat by a team playing it's backup QB (and that's not a bust on Charlie, but still). Excuses are made. Crying occurs. Same thing occured last season with a "few" teams.

1-0 baby.

Interceptor
09-08-2006, 09:55 AM
Miami was still in the game with 6 minutes to go and only down by 4 points. Don't tell me that isn't enough time to execute a winning drive. Steelers were protecting everything up the middle, in the middle, and deep. They were cushioning the flats. Think of it as a 'cone' or a capital 'T'. Miami had every chance to win that game with short, controlled out passes to the flats and maybe a few slant runs. Poor decision-making by Culpepper (trying to force the ball deep into multiple coverage) in the critical minutes of the 4th quarter led to their downfall.

bengalsfan21
09-08-2006, 09:58 AM
Also Miami lost because they have Culflopper at QB, personally they released their only hope at QB in Marcus Vick.....But there is always the draft next year.

Lyn
09-08-2006, 10:07 AM
Nick Sabin used to coach for Michigan State, he does not make mistakes, trust me that will never happen again. :) Even if we had gotten the ball on the 1, 2 or 3 yard line and even turned it over, we still would have won. Another coulda, woulda, shoulda that is so famous in Pro Football!

Mosca
09-08-2006, 10:09 AM
Miami was still in the game with 6 minutes to go and only down by 4 points. Don't tell me that isn't enough time to execute a winning drive. Steelers were protecting everything up the middle, in the middle, and deep. They were cushioning the flats. Think of it as a 'cone' or a capital 'T'. Miami had every chance to win that game with short, controlled out passes to the flats and maybe a few slant runs. Poor decision-making by Culpepper (trying to force the ball deep into multiple coverage) in the critical minutes of the 4th quarter led to their downfall.


Oh hell, I thought they were still in it with 3.5 minutes to go and down by 11! That is a good Miami team. They still need to jell. One game doesn't make a season, and teams get better week after week. This one will. If they keep at it, they will be really dangerous come January. I wouldn't be too down if I was a Fins fan.


Tom

Interceptor
09-08-2006, 10:20 AM
Oh hell, I thought they were still in it with 3.5 minutes to go and down by 11!
I was talking about before the 1st interception.:dang:

OX1947
09-08-2006, 10:25 AM
Saban wasnt 100% on throwing the flag, he half assed it. And even if he gets the call reversed, the steelers were on the 1/2 inch line, do you think they wouldnt have scored this time with the fumble earlier? C'mon....

Mosca
09-08-2006, 10:46 AM
I was talking about before the 1st interception.:dang:

I agree, I think it was a good point you made... and my wife and I were both saying that even up to Miami's last possession, that relaxing there could make the Steelers eat crow. Culpepper gets them in FG range with one play, they hit it and recover the kick, and all of a sudden it's "who the hell knows what will happen next" time. They were moving the ball at a pretty good clip, IMO.

It's good to see the Fins back. I really like some of those guys, especially on defense.


Tom

HometownGal
09-08-2006, 10:51 AM
Also Miami lost because they have Culflopper at QB, personally they released their only hope at QB in Marcus Vick.....But there is always the draft next year.

Miami lost because they were outplayed, outcoached and outmaneuvered. All in all, I don't think Culpepper played that badly. He made some nice throws out there and moved around pretty well for a guy coming off of a knee injury like his. The two INTs by Troy and Peezy were more great defensive plays than bad throws. They read him like a book and reacted. This is a good Fins team - look out Pats.

tony hipchest
09-08-2006, 11:12 AM
Miami lost because they were outplayed, outcoached and outmaneuvered. All in all, I don't think Culpepper played that badly. He made some nice throws out there and moved around pretty well for a guy coming off of a knee injury like his. The two INTs by Troy and Peezy were more great defensive plays than bad throws. They read him like a book and reacted. This is a good Fins team - look out Pats.

great call. its no suprise a bengalfan would try to downplay the steelers defensive preformance. culpepper has never played against troy and its been several years since he played porter. he knew they were fast but didnt realize they were that fast. both of his throws were good ones. just a hell of a play by 2 pro bowl players. dont expect a bengals fan to give credit to lebeau for putting his players in the position to bait the qb and make those plays in predictable passing situations.

the steelers pass rush ate up his blocking. he was getting hit all night. carson can expect the same. as can the lead footed leftwich.

X-Terminator
09-08-2006, 11:24 AM
I'd suggest Saban give Hans and Franz a call to "pump up" that throwing arm, so that maybe next time he'll be able to throw his flag where the refs can see it! :sofunny:

steelersgirl86
09-08-2006, 11:26 AM
Well the bottom line is we won and it is not like we only won by a touchdown it was more than that. Even if they would of challenged it and it would of got called back to the 3 yard line we would of had it and it would of wasted more time off the clock we were hoping it would of. We were not scared...so that did not matter at all what so ever.

People always have to cry over when they lose and come up with some excuse when the better team won....



GO STEELERS!!!!!

SteelerFanInCA
09-08-2006, 11:28 AM
Bottom line: Nick Saban throws like a girl (No offense to the ladies of the site. :smile: )

Mosca
09-08-2006, 11:28 AM
EDIT: forgot to quote tony hipchest, I am following up on his comment about the interceptions.

I think Polamalu's INT was a good play on Troy's part; he suckered Culpepper into it. But Culpepper is also veteran enough to not fall for that. On the snap Culpepper looked right and his eyes stayed there, the same play he'd run successfully a half dozen times already... but Polamalu was sitting on it. Stupid by Culpepper to miss that, a bad decision.

Porter's play was a great defensive play both in concept and execution. Culpepper didn't have a chance there. If you TiVo'd the game, look how fast Porter moves between the time the ball is thrown (the receiver is wide open) and the time he intercepts it, and look how he reaches for the ball. Great play, Culpepper didn't have a chance. That was a Jack Ham type play. Porter was seeing twice the field at half the speed of everyone else.

I'll take 'em both. They count the same. Both guys are scary fast.


Tom

Ohio Steeler
09-08-2006, 11:34 AM
Bottom line: Nick Saban throws like a girl (No offense to the ladies of the site. :smile: )

LOL

now we know who showed Culpepper lhow to throw

bigbensgirl7
09-08-2006, 11:53 AM
If he really wanted the challange, he could have gone out on the field and demanded the attention of a ref. He obviously didn't...he didn't even try to yell to the ref standing there or anything. All it would have done is given us the ball on the 2 yrd. line and if you think we would have not atleast come up with 3 again, you are crazy. Take those points completely away...we still win!!!
GOOD TEAMS OVERCOME ADVERSITY AND BAD OFFICIATING!!!
The Steelers have done it time and time again. Actually I can remember a few missed penalties that could have helped the Steelers, but we moved on.
What about Troy's interception last year in Indy??? That not only would have given us the ball back, but on that same drive Indy ended up coming away with a touchdown. WHO WON THAT GAME???? WE STILL DID!!!!!!!!
Get over it. All this did was give the Dolphins an excuse why they loss, which is exactly what I think Saban wanted when he threw that out there knowing that there was no one paying a damn bit of attention to him, and not attempting to get someones attention either!

The_Professor
09-08-2006, 11:53 AM
What about the hold by Chris Chambers on Miami's 2nd td run which was blatantly obvious... point is calls could have gone both ways but the Steelers still managed to put up 28 points against (coulda woulda shoulda been 35 if Batch doesn't fumble) Miami's D with our BACKUP qb... whenever that happens to a team there aren't too many excuses that are worth hearing as to why they lost.

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-08-2006, 11:55 AM
my dog could have shot the red flag out his ass further than the nickanator threw it.....

memphissteelergirl
09-08-2006, 12:19 PM
"The officials said they didn't see it," Saban said. "Whose fault is that?"

Um...yours, Nick.




Booyah!

:cooldude:

SuperBowlChamps
09-08-2006, 12:23 PM
Yeah...I have no sympathy for the Dolphins in this case. He hesitated to throw the flag anyway. And besides that, the Dolphins wouldn't have won anyway cuz J-Peezy took it to the house after picking it off. So it makes no difference...

Jimmy James
09-08-2006, 12:28 PM
The call on the red flag was ridiculous and is against all precedent from the past when there *have* been late challenges and even snapped balls blown dead.

With that said, I hope the next official near Nick doesn't mind getting beaned in the back of the head with the flag. If that's the way the league wants it now, they're only hurting their own officials.

That play (the review/no review, not the Heath run itself) is not why your team won and mine lost. For whatever reason, Miami stank it up in the 4th quarter all the way around. When you do that, you lose the football game.

As I said elsewhere here, congratulations on the well-earned win.

83-Steelers-43
09-08-2006, 12:30 PM
I've seen Cowher spit farther than Saban threw that flag. Nevermind the fact that Cowher would have been perched on top of that officials shoulder screaming in his ear in what felt like a two hour span between Miller's reception and the extra point.

Let them cry. It's not as if we haven't seen sour grapes in the past. :blah:

bigbensgirl7
09-08-2006, 12:37 PM
The call on the red flag was ridiculous and is against all precedent from the past when there *have* been late challenges and even snapped balls blown dead.

With that said, I hope the next official near Nick doesn't mind getting beaned in the back of the head with the flag. If that's the way the league wants it now, they're only hurting their own officials.

That play (the review/no review, not the Heath run itself) is not why your team won and mine lost. For whatever reason, Miami stank it up in the 4th quarter all the way around. When you do that, you lose the football game.

As I said elsewhere here, congratulations on the well-earned win.


By The Associated Press
Friday, September 8, 2006


Referee Walt Coleman stood waiting patiently for the red flag he sensed was coming from the Miami Dolphins' sideline. A minute or so before, the Steelers had gone ahead on a scoring play that may have taken tight end Heath Miller out of bounds, and there was no reason not to challenge.
Still, the challenge flag remained firmly in Dolphins coach Nick Saban's hand. Even as the teams lined up for the extra point. Even as center Greg Warren leaned over the ball before snapping it to holder Chris Gardocki.

[/QUOTE]

They gavce him plenty of time and opportunity to challange the call...CASE CLOSED....He waited until the last moment and did nothing to grad the officials attantion standing right there! He is aloud to go out on the field and demand their attnetion but he chose not to until the kick had already gone threw the uprights and it was too late.
At least you understand there was a little more to that loss than one LATE red flag that would have given us the ball on the 2.
Thank you and good luck with the rest of your season....maybe we will see you again in the playoffs!

HometownGal
09-08-2006, 12:41 PM
I was listening to the post-game show on the drive home last night and Stan Savran and Mark Madden were discussing the idea that the league should try to come up with a better solution than the red flag for the HCs to alert the officials when they are challenging a call. Several suggestions were made including using a buzzer that only the HC has access to which is loud enough to be heard over the crowd (they'd have to really pump it up at Heinz Field, though!), a button that the HC could push to sound off a loud fog horn type of noise, etc. Savran said that they should develop a way to send a shock wave through the ref's body when they are challening a call to get his immediate attention - LOL! :sofunny: I suggest having each team mascot (the Steelers need to bring back theirs!) use a launcher and fire a huge dart into the ref's behind - that would get his attention fast and in a hurry. :cool:

Jimmy James
09-08-2006, 12:43 PM
They gavce him plenty of time and opportunity to challange the call...CASE CLOSED....

That's not case closed at all. The rule is that you can challenge the play up until the snap. Nick clearly did that, and it's clear that the league chose to rush in and cover for their officials by trying to blame it on his underhand throw. They blew it, and it does nobody any good to pretend otherwise.

SteelerFanInCA
09-08-2006, 12:45 PM
I was listening to the post-game show on the drive home last night and Stan Savran and Mark Madden were discussing the idea that the league should try to come up with a better solution than the red flag for the HCs to alert the officials when they are challenging a call. Several suggestions were made including using a buzzer that only the HC has access to which is loud enough to be heard over the crowd (they'd have to really pump it up at Heinz Field, though!), a button that the HC could push to sound off a loud fog horn type of noise, etc. Savran said that they should develop a way to send a shock wave through the ref's body when they are challening a call to get his immediate attention - LOL! :sofunny: I suggest having each team mascot (the Steelers need to bring back theirs!) use a launcher and fire a huge dart into the ref's behind - that would get his attention fast and in a hurry. :cool:

I guess they could always do it like the college level does. The play is immediately reviewed up in the booth and the findings wired down to the ref. That's got to better than a ref sticking his head in a peep booth.

83-Steelers-43
09-08-2006, 12:46 PM
I was listening to the post-game show on the drive home last night and Stan Savran and Mark Madden were discussing the idea that the league should try to come up with a better solution than the red flag for the HCs to alert the officials when they are challenging a call. Several suggestions were made including using a buzzer that only the HC has access to which is loud enough to be heard over the crowd (they'd have to really pump it up at Heinz Field, though!), a button that the HC could push to sound off a loud fog horn type of noise, etc. Savran said that they should develop a way to send a shock wave through the ref's body when they are challening a call to get his immediate attention - LOL! :sofunny: I suggest having each team mascot (the Steelers need to bring back theirs!) use a launcher and fire a huge dart into the ref's behind - that would get his attention fast and in a hurry. :cool:

Strange though, I don't recall the situation which occured last night being that big of a problem until last night. Maybe it was Saban who has the problem and not the league.

If they do decide to make changes, then so be it. Until then, HC's should have an understanding on how to get the official's attention. Waiting until the last second, double pumping the flag two feet inside a stadium which was rocking after Miller's catch is not the smartest way to go.

tony hipchest
09-08-2006, 12:47 PM
That's not case closed at all. The rule is that you can challenge the play up until the snap. Nick clearly did that, and it's clear that the league chose to rush in and cover for their officials by trying to blame it on his underhand throw. They blew it, and it does nobody any good to pretend otherwise.too bad the officials havent mastered sabans brand of telepathy

BlackNGold203
09-08-2006, 12:52 PM
The coaches have been told they can leave the box..and enter the field..to challenge....

Look at Saban..its like he didnt even know what to do!!..or if he even wanted to do it!!!

Id cut him slack last year..as a rookie NFL HC...but not this year....he screwed up...

CASE CLOSED

Indy_Steelers
09-08-2006, 12:54 PM
Saban wasnt 100% on throwing the flag, he half assed it. And even if he gets the call reversed, the steelers were on the 1/2 inch line, do you think they wouldnt have scored this time with the fumble earlier? C'mon....

At that point in the game he should have thrown the flag regarless of any doubt. I think they may have had only one time out left and that could have made them hesitant. but they had the lead and lost it on that play. THROW THE FLAG.:dang:

clarient
09-08-2006, 12:59 PM
That's not case closed at all. The rule is that you can challenge the play up until the snap. Nick clearly did that, and it's clear that the league chose to rush in and cover for their officials by trying to blame it on his underhand throw. They blew it, and it does nobody any good to pretend otherwise.

The league blew it, are you kidding me? Don't tell me you weren't sitting in front of your TV during the THREE sloooow replays thinking (or hell, yelling), "COACH'S CHALLENGE!"

Good Lord, I was sitting in front of my TV thinking "Why the hell haven't they challenged it yet?"

League officials might not have been paying close attention, but Saban sure took his sweet time and didn't exactly try very hard to get them to pay attention to that big red flag of his. One replay is all it took for me to realize it would have been overturned, but that flag stayed in his hand and he paid the price. Something crucial like overturning a TOUCHDOWN should NOT be taken lightly enough that you don't make absolutely sure the officials see your flag.

SuperBowlChamps
09-08-2006, 12:59 PM
I'm listening to the Dan Patrick Show on ESPN Radio and one of the e-mailers said that maybe they should give the coaches a flare gun to challenge a play...:m16:

...yeah...lets arm the coaches with a....flare gun....yeah....riiiight :rofl:

tony hipchest
09-08-2006, 01:04 PM
i think miami has more coaches than any team in the league. alot of teams have someone watching replays up in the booth to alert the coach when to challenge. i believe saban blamed it on one of these guys (or lack of one). he said he didnt know it was so obvious.

clear mismanagement on his part.

steelerdude
09-08-2006, 01:21 PM
Future of Dolphins pre-game warm-ups:

1. QBs and receivers run through their routes.
2. Kicker practices field goals and extra points.
3. Punter warms up leg and practices placing his punts to certain areas of the field.
4. Defensive players stretch and do their thing.
5. Coach Saban goes through red flag tossing drills.

Livinginthe past
09-08-2006, 01:21 PM
I think Saban made a clear mistake but you do have to hold the officials accountable also.

It was clearly a contentious decision, and there was plenty of time (one poster says there were no less than 3 replays) - why isn't at least one official watching the HC's reaction.

Thats pretty elementary stuff - making a poor judgement call is one thing, but surely refs should be capable of keeping an eye on the HC's just in case they'd like to challenge.

I dont see any of this as a genuine reason why Miami didn't win - the answer to that one is simple enough - they werent good enough.

NM

stlrtruck
09-08-2006, 01:24 PM
If they believe that the only reason they lost that game was because of Saban not throwing the red hanky in time, they need to wake up and smell the fresh turf!!!

Maybe it was the fact that Culpepper, early in the game, was under throwing his receivers. Maybe it was Fast Willie Parker getting the hard yardage late in the game. Or maybe it was Heath Miller's long run (regardless if he got in the end zone, it still set the Steelers up in great field position) and tired the Defense. Maybe it was the long drives the Steelers put together in the 4th quarter.

I'm just hoping that this doesn't turn into a "Oh-woosies-me" type crap from the phish fans. You can either continue to look back at what could have been or move forward with what can be....if you're lucky and recover from this lose, you'll meet us in the playoffs!!!

steelerdude
09-08-2006, 01:25 PM
I think Saban made a clear mistake but you do have to hold the officials accountable also.

It was clearly a contentious decision, and there was plenty of time (one poster says there were no less than 3 replays) - why isn't at least one official watching the HC's reaction.

Thats pretty elementary stuff - making a poor judgement call is one thing, but surely refs should be capable of keeping an eye on the HC's just in case they'd like to challenge.

I dont see any of this as a genuine reason why Miami didn't win - the answer to that one is simple enough - they werent good enough.

NM

Associated Press
Posted: 1 hour ago



PITTSBURGH (AP) - Miami coach Nick Saban had the red challenge flag in his hand, hitched it forward and back, and couldn't seem to let it go in time. Maybe the Dolphins should flag their own coach for a costly delay.

Pittsburgh Steelers tight end Heath Miller chugged his way down the sideline on an 87-yard touchdown pass play midway through the fourth quarter, fill-in QB Charlie Batch's third scoring pass of the game, and the Super Bowl champions beat the Dolphins 28-17 Thursday night in the NFL's first game of the season.

"It seemed like it took me forever to get there," Miller said.

For good reason.

Miller's score shouldn't have stood - TV replays clearly showed his foot splayed out of bounds between the 1 and 2-yard lines. However, Saban hesitated to throw his flag, which fell to the turf sight unseen as referee Walt Coleman watched the extra point kick. That meant the Steelers didn't have to try to get the ball into the end zone from short yardage.

Asked if he got in, Miller said, laughing, "Touchdown. Yeah."

Saban apparently thought he could throw the challenge flag at any time before Jeff Reed kicked the extra point, but no official saw him - and thus, no replay. And no Dolphins upset, either, even though the Steelers didn't look particularly sharp in their first game that counted since the Super Bowl - despite Willie Parker's 115 yards rushing, Miller's 101 yards receiving and Batch's first three-TD game since Nov. 18, 2001, with Detroit.

"They said they didn't see it," Saban said. "Whose fault is that?"

Saban explained that assistant coaches in the press box first had to watch the replay before notifying him whether to challenge.

"We can't challenge something until we see it," he said. "When we saw it, I threw the flag. It was well before the kicker kicked it. The official said he didn't see it, and when he said he didn't see it, there was nothing he could do. That shouldn't happen."

Coleman said the officials had no choice because Saban waited so long. He said they delayed the extra-point, waiting for the possibility of a challenge, then lined up for the try. Under NFL rules, there can be no challenge once the next play begins.
"We were unfortunately focused on the snap and so forth, and the coach threw the flag and we didn't see it."

He said he could never remember a coach being late with the flag before.

Miami, down 21-17 at the time, had a chance to come back. But new quarterback Daunte Culpepper was intercepted on consecutive series, with linebacker Joey Porter scoring on a 42-yard return with about three minutes left.

"We knew we had put them in a situation where they had to pass the ball. I had my chance to make the play and I made it," Porter said.

Porter was so excited, he ran to the sideline and kissed coach Bill Cowher on the cheek - the Steelers' first known sideline smooch since Cowher planted one on Kordell Stewart during a 1997 comeback victory in Baltimore.

The Dolphins, trying to build off the momentum of their six consecutive victories to end last season, never led until Ronnie Brown scored on a 5-yard run to make it 17-14 in the third quarter. Marty Booker, sidelined with what appeared to be a concussion in the first half, came back to make a 50-yard catch of Culpepper's pass, aided by safety Tyrone Carter's slip, to set up the score.

"We were definitely in the driver's seat. We needed to stay focused and finish the ballgame out," said safety Renaldo Hill.

Culpepper was mostly effective in his first start for the Dolphins, until his late-game mistakes. He also was intercepted by Troy Polamalu immediately after Miller's catch put the Steelers up. Culpepper finished 18-for-37 for 262 yards.

"In this league, you can't turn the ball over in the fourth quarter," Culpepper said. "I'm better than that. We're better than that."

The Steelers also overcame a costly mistake when Batch fumbled Jeff Hartings' snap at the Miami 1 and Will Allen recovered, keeping the Dolphins in the lead temporarily.

For the first 2 1/2 quarters, the Steelers looked much like they did in the Super Bowl seven months ago - without Ben Roethlisberger, of course. The quarterback made an unexpectedly fast recovery from a June motorcycle crash, only to need an emergency appendectomy on Sunday that kept him out of his fifth game in two seasons.

"I walked in here Sunday and had no idea I would be the starter," Batch said. "But I always tell myself, 'When you go in there, don't be the guy who takes a step back, keep things going offensively without changing the game plan.' And I think I was able to do that."

Just like in that 21-10 win over Seattle in the Super Bowl, there was a Hines Ward touchdown catch, a long Parker run and a favorable call from an official, helping the Steelers go up 14-7.

Ward, who sat out the preseason with a sore hamstring, caught a 7-yard touchdown pass from Batch late in the first half. Parker used his speed to get loose on a 32-yard run to the Dolphins 35, and cornerback Andre Goodman drew a 23-yard pass interference call on Cedrick Wilson. Goodman started because of Travis Daniels' ankle injury.

Batch, making his first season-opening start since 2001 with Detroit, looked rusty for two drives, only to settle in and throw a 27-yard scoring pass to Nate Washington to finish off a 75-yard drive early in the second period. It was the first regular-season catch for Washington, a 2005 free agent from Tiffin University whose only other career reception came in the AFC title game.

Batch was 15-for-25 for 209 yards.

Miami couldn't get a running game going until the second half - at one point, Brown had 11 yards on nine carries - but tied it at 7 when Wes Welker's 47-yard punt return set up Brown's 2-yard run.

The Steelers unveiled their five Super Bowl championship banners during a pregame show highlighted by fireworks and an in-stadium concert, but the mood in Heinz Field wasn't entirely celebratory.

A moment of silence was held minutes before the opening kickoff for the late Pittsburgh Mayor Bob O'Connor, who was buried earlier in the day. O'Connor died in office last week of brain cancer. His son, Corey, was introduced to the crowd.

HometownGal
09-08-2006, 01:29 PM
Strange though, I don't recall the situation which occured last night being that big of a problem until last night. Maybe it was Saban who has the problem and not the league.

If they do decide to make changes, then so be it. Until then, HC's should have an understanding on how to get the official's attention. Waiting until the last second, double pumping the flag two feet inside a stadium which was rocking after Miller's catch is not the smartest way to go.

I'm not saying I agree a change needs to be made - I was just commenting on what I had heard last night on the post-game show. It definitely was Saban who fubared that one, no question about it. As 203 said - he had an additional option of coming onto the field to get the ref's attention, but either didn't read the rule or didn't understand it.

83-Steelers-43
09-08-2006, 01:31 PM
I'm not saying I agree a change needs to be made - I was just commenting on what I had heard last night on the post-game show. It definitely was Saban who fubared that one, no question about it. As 203 said - he had an additional option of coming onto the field to get the ref's attention, but either didn't read the rule or didn't understand it.

When I looked back at my reply, I realized I should have made it clear that my reponse was towards Stan Savern and Fat Madden. Sorry.

HometownGal
09-08-2006, 01:50 PM
That's not case closed at all. The rule is that you can challenge the play up until the snap. Nick clearly did that, and it's clear that the league chose to rush in and cover for their officials by trying to blame it on his underhand throw. They blew it, and it does nobody any good to pretend otherwise.

C'mon Jimmy - let it go. It does no one any good to throw out the woulda, coulda, shouldas. There's a strong likelihood that the Steelers would have scored from the 1-1/2 yard line and if they couldn't punch it in, I'd bet the farm that Reed would have kicked 3 through the uprights. Taking away the TD and adding the 3 - the Steelers still win 24-17. Considering Saban is the Head Coach and could clearly see the various replays on the scoreboard, there is no excuse for him not to have thrown that flag before consulting with his coordinators - it was at a very crucial point in the game. If you want to blame anyone, blame your HC who obviously can't make a decision on his own or understand the Rules.

Jimmy James
09-08-2006, 02:00 PM
C'mon Jimmy - let it go. It does no one any good to throw out the woulda, coulda, shouldas. There's a strong likelihood that the Steelers would have scored from the 1-1/2 yard line and if they couldn't punch it in, I'd bet the farm that Reed would have kicked 3 through the uprights. Taking away the TD and adding the 3 - the Steelers still win 24-17. Considering Saban is the Head Coach and could clearly see the various replays on the scoreboard, there is no excuse for him not to have thrown that flag before consulting with his coordinators - it was at a very crucial point in the game. If you want to blame anyone, blame your HC who obviously can't make a decision on his own or understand the Rules.

This isn't about woulda, coulda, shouldas. It's about how the league owes us all better. The league is who you should be pissed it for both the Super Bowl controversies and the less rational Fins fans who still think that challenge would have changed anything.

The rule is that if the coach challenges before the play, there's a review. Saban challenged before the play. There was no review, and there is no excuse for the officials failing in their job.

ExtonSteelFan
09-08-2006, 02:12 PM
This isn't about woulda, coulda, shouldas. It's about how the league owes us all better. The league is who you should be pissed it for both the Super Bowl controversies and the less rational Fins fans who still think that challenge would have changed anything.

The rule is that if the coach challenges before the play, there's a review. Saban challenged before the play. There was no review, and there is no excuse for the officials failing in their job.

Maybe that will be a lesson to coaches who decide to wait till the LAST minute to challenge the play. He saw the reply just like everyone else. It's his fault for not making his challenge clear. You could clearly see the refs back turned away from the miami sideline and the flag was thrown BEHIND him. Sorry the Ref was too busy watching the extra point kick like he's supposed to do. I'm sure that stadium was loud as heck too which probably attributed to the ref not hearing the sideline. I highly doubt he turned his back and chose not to hear anything.

Mosca
09-08-2006, 02:14 PM
Jimmy, my take on it is that Saban was deliberately delaying tossing the flag. The only reason to do that is dramatic, to claim the stage for himself. If he wasn't so much about "look at me", the call would have been reviewed; the refs themselves are quoted as saying that they delayed the PAT because they were waiting for the challenge. At some point the coach has to stop acting like a petulant child and just do what's best for his team. And that includes giving up his egotistic attitude when the game is more important. He lost sight of that, in that moment.

Whose fault was it that the refs didn't see the flag? Yours, coach. You didn't give your team the effort that you demand from them.

OTOH, congratulations on having one heck of a good football team. If Culpepper would have held it together for 10 more minutes, the red flag wouldn't have mattered. You guys could have won that one. Teams improve throughout the year (and they also get worse). This was a game to build on.


Tom

RoethlisBURGHer
09-08-2006, 02:23 PM
Facts are,we won...they lost.

Hell,we win even if you take away Heath Miller's score.We would have probally still gotten a TD out of that drive,or at least a FG.

Culpepper looked good until the fourth quarter,then he looked like last year's Culpepper...making bad desicions and just floating the ball in the air.

stlrtruck
09-08-2006, 02:33 PM
So now I'm hearing that refs should have been paying attention to the HC to see what he was going to do...so here's some questions for you phish fans....

1. At what point do the refs stop looking at a HC holding his little red hanky and pay attention to the field?
2. Do you honestly believe that that one play is the difference in the game?
3. Are there other things your team could have done better and/or different to secure the victory?
4. When will fans learn that the game is not decided by one play or lack there of but instead it is determined by teams going out and controlling what they can control (see Coach Cowher's speech at the Indy playoff game)?

Bottom-line it's about execution and the phish didn't execute for the entire 60 minutes!!!!

RoethlisBURGHer
09-08-2006, 02:40 PM
Here's the thing about Saban throwing the flag:

THE REFS HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE PLAY ON THE FIELD.THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE PAID TO DO.

You must make sure the officials are paying attention to you when you go to throw the flag.That's why coaches are yelling and throwing a temper tantrum most of the time.

The rules say a coach can enter the field of play to get an officials attention to throw the flag,Saban just tossed it like a jagoff two yards in front of him.

stillers4me
09-08-2006, 02:48 PM
So now I'm hearing that refs should have been paying attention to the HC to see what he was going to do...so here's some questions for you phish fans....

1. At what point do the refs stop looking at a HC holding his little red hanky and pay attention to the field?
2. Do you honestly believe that that one play is the difference in the game?
3. Are there other things your team could have done better and/or different to secure the victory?
4. When will fans learn that the game is not decided by one play or lack there of but instead it is determined by teams going out and controlling what they can control (see Coach Cowher's speech at the Indy playoff game)?Bottom-line it's about execution and the phish didn't execute for the entire 60 minutes!!!!

I have repeated this over and over and over. That is the difference between the Steelers and every other team in the league. I heard him say that, too. And that's why the Steelers go out there and kick butt every time they get a bad call against them .....here's to bad officiating!!! :busted:

HometownGal
09-08-2006, 02:57 PM
This isn't about woulda, coulda, shouldas. It's about how the league owes us all better. The league is who you should be pissed it for both the Super Bowl controversies and the less rational Fins fans who still think that challenge would have changed anything.

The rule is that if the coach challenges before the play, there's a review. Saban challenged before the play. There was no review, and there is no excuse for the officials failing in their job.

Jimmy - I'm rational enough to see that the league isn't perfect - neither are the refs- and there are a lot of things I would like to see changed. In this case, however, even if the roles were reversed, I would still see it the same way - there is no excuse for Saban holding onto that flag for as long as he did. He is the Head Coach and his decisions, even if made in the blink of an eye - usurps any decisions made by any of his coaches or his OC. Again - he couldn't have missed the replays on the scoreboard - that scoreboard is very large. With him waiting until the "stroke of midnight" by throwing that flag and clearly seeing that Coleman had his back to him and was immersed in watching the extra point attempt, he not only cost himself a replay that would have surely overturned that TD - he cost his team a better chance for victory had they stopped the Steelers at the goal line when the call would have been overturned. Even with a Steelers FG at that point in the game, the game still would have been within reach. Other than Fins fans, I haven't seen one story out there yet today that supports your position - quite the contrary.

Why would I be pissed at the refs for their calls in the Super Bowl? The Steelers won it fair and square by using the same game mentality that they used against your Fins and every other team they have faced or will face - outplay, outcoach, outmaneuver (and using a Survivor term here - OUTLAST. It's really a very simple concept. :cool:

83-Steelers-43
09-08-2006, 03:01 PM
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/01/01/1136148382_3559.jpg And after further review.....the real reason why Saban did not throw the flag in time.

SuperBowlChamps
09-08-2006, 03:14 PM
Hahaha niice :)

Jimmy James
09-08-2006, 03:18 PM
If the officials on the field cannot devote ample attention to both the field and the two coaches who have a right to challenge up until the snap, the league needs to hire more officials and put them down on the field. The owners chose to put in this replay system, and it is the league's responsibility to carry out the will of the owners by installing a system that works the way it is supposed to. The rule, again, is that if the play is challenged prior to the snap, there is a review. Understand this: it's not about the game. If this were the Patriots, I'd be just as upset. It's about process.

PhinPhan1227
09-08-2006, 03:24 PM
Excuse me, but where in that article does it say anything about Dolphins fans blaming the loss on the flag? What kind of garbage is that? If you're going to post a thread with that title, don't you think you should have some EVIDENCE of Miami fans blaming the loss on the flag? Posts here from Miami fans? Posts on Dolphins fan sites? SOMETHING? Petty man, really petty when you consider that I haven't seen any Phin posts on this board before or immediately after the game that were even talking smack, much less being petty.

Mosca
09-08-2006, 03:44 PM
Excuse me, but where in that article does it say anything about Dolphins fans blaming the loss on the flag? What kind of garbage is that? If you're going to post a thread with that title, don't you think you should have some EVIDENCE of Miami fans blaming the loss on the flag? Posts here from Miami fans? Posts on Dolphins fan sites? SOMETHING? Petty man, really petty when you consider that I haven't seen any Phin posts on this board before or immediately after the game that were even talking smack, much less being petty.

I thought he was referring to posts on Dolphins boards. While I know that there are rational people there who understand how things work, I also know that there are idiots there, just like there are here and everywhere. Since I have no inclination to go over there and pick fights with them, but I enjoy discussing the game, I decided that it would fill my needs to discuss it here.

I appreciate that some Fins fans come here and help out. I think that Jimmy James is doing a pretty good job of holding his own and has made a good general point, albeit in a discussion of a specific act. I disagree with him though, that the current procedure needs to be revamped. I think Saban blew it and is now trying to blame anyone but himself. He had ample time to challenge within the design of the current procedure, but chose to delay his challenge until it went unseen. The current procedure would have given the Dolphins another chance to force a fumble, to intercept, to make a 4 down stand... but Saban instead manipulated the situation into the only one that would have caused a controversy. He waited. And by doing that he did a disservice to the men who give him 100% effort... he didn't return that 100%.

You guys who have posted here are stand up all the way. I'd fight next to you any time. This is 1/16th of the season. We all know the feeling of having to wait another week for the wash of victory; I hope you get to feel it often this year.


Tom

redst3
09-08-2006, 03:53 PM
May I butt in?

I think Miami got shafted on the call, but big deal.

You have to win the game. I remember Quincy Morgan ran a punt back with the Browns for a td one time that had the biggest clip in the history of the NFL and a hold on Josh Miller that looked like an Anaconda. So what? You have to overcome this kind of thing to be among the great teams.

Miami did OK, they just weren't good enough. What? You think the Steelers wouldnt have gotten in from the 5 or 4 or 1 or whatever? Like they are going to botch another trip in the red zone? Miami got the ball back TWO frigging times and the qb threw an interception each time. After the missed FG, it was nearly at midfield.

The way the thing stacked up, the Dolphins should have lost 38-17.

Enough already. They lost. They are 0-1. Deal with it.

Jimmy James
09-08-2006, 03:58 PM
Excuse me, but where in that article does it say anything about Dolphins fans blaming the loss on the flag? What kind of garbage is that? If you're going to post a thread with that title, don't you think you should have some EVIDENCE of Miami fans blaming the loss on the flag? Posts here from Miami fans? Posts on Dolphins fan sites? SOMETHING? Petty man, really petty when you consider that I haven't seen any Phin posts on this board before or immediately after the game that were even talking smack, much less being petty.

That's the title of the article that the AP writer in question used. It's one of the worst pieces of sportswriting I think I have ever seen, mostly because it creates the perception that Saban threw the flag after the snap and never bothers to lay out the notoriously available facts that Saban did throw the flag prior to the snap. I have already said elsewhere that this guy should be fired for this very poor article.

bozz723
09-08-2006, 04:31 PM
Here is the bottom line on this flag call, and to all who think it would have somehow made miami win.

first, the flag was thrown exactly 2 seconds before the kick behind the ref, they showed a split screen. So that replay they show where it seems like saban is screaming for 5 minutes, is well after the kick was through. that is why he is screaming.

Second, the steelers would have had the ball on the one inch line, and would have punched it in the very next play. Did they expect to stop us ? Another fumble from the 1 ?

Third, the only reason miami was even in the game in the first place was because of the missed blatant pass interference call. That gave miami the momentum there, and they still couldn't win.

Fourth, who made culpepper throw two interceptions on consecutive passes ? The refs ? or our defense ?


Calls go both ways, and the Steelers could have whined about the PI, and complained that the world was against them, but they didn't, they don't. That is why the Steelers are the champions, and the rest of the league crys.

SteelCityMan786
09-08-2006, 04:41 PM
I think the league should tell coaches If they want to challenge a play to run out and throw the flag in front of the ref.

Midnightwriter07
09-08-2006, 04:41 PM
ummm this was nothing more than about Saban being dumb.... I see cowher plenty of times talking to the ref telling him that they are going to challege the call and sometimes going to the field and throwing it where they are standing. The rules state that the coach is aloud to RUN down the side of the field, RUN on the field to get the ref attention. He just threw it in front of his own damn feet and he knew that the refs wernt watching.. He should have been YELLING and SCREAMING and RUNNING on field since the DORK waited til last second to throw it. I think if anything it is just his inexperience... is not like this happens on a weekly basis... other coaches do it, so not sure why he thought he could just stand there and then be an idiot and throw it like a girl in front of his own feet.

Midnightwriter07
09-08-2006, 04:43 PM
I think the league should tell coaches If they want to challenge a play to run out and throw the flag in front of the ref.


That is already known in the league .. didnt anyone watch Collinsworth explain it last night ????? The league has told the coaches they have permission on a review play that they are aloud to RUN onto the FIELD and down the SIDELINE in order to get a refs attentions and can throw the red flag our in front of ref so see's it.. SO Saban could have ran his lil happy ass out on field of play if he chose to.

HometownGal
09-08-2006, 04:58 PM
Excuse me, but where in that article does it say anything about Dolphins fans blaming the loss on the flag? What kind of garbage is that? If you're going to post a thread with that title, don't you think you should have some EVIDENCE of Miami fans blaming the loss on the flag? Posts here from Miami fans? Posts on Dolphins fan sites? SOMETHING? Petty man, really petty when you consider that I haven't seen any Phin posts on this board before or immediately after the game that were even talking smack, much less being petty.

While it may not state that Fins fans blamed the loss on the flag drama in that particular article, you may want to check out this thread:

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=10356

I think this subject has been beaten to death enough. What is - is - and whether we all agree or disagree, whether we whine about the ref's decision or applaud it, the game is over. Time for fans of both teams to move on to our respective games next week. :cool:

Black@Gold Forever32
09-08-2006, 05:57 PM
Ok it was so clear that Heath Miller was out of bounds that the refs just figured the red flag was come out quick by Saban. Saban farted around and waited way to long to throw the flag that the refs just aussmed it wasn't coming. Do I think the refs made a mistake. I sure do but they are human just like the players.

You Dolphins fans are being really silly about this whole issue. Again I will say if Ike Taylor holds onto that INT in the endzone and if Batch doesn't fumble then the game wouldn't have been as close as 28-17. Excuses are just like A-holes. Everybody has one. Sorry mods for my blunt comments. But this whole thing is driving me nuts.

SteelerFanInATL
09-08-2006, 06:44 PM
Even if the play had been reviewed, I can't beleive Miami fans think that we would not have scored from the three yard line. We would have also had a chance to run the clock down more if we may not have scored on 1st and goal in that situation. Late flag or not it would not have made a difference.

Elvis
09-08-2006, 06:50 PM
Has anyone got DVR on their sattelite dishes that recorded the game last night?
I have it come on down and I'll show you about 3 or 4 plays that the refs didnt call against the phins... first.. the pass interference that wasnt called early in the game.. holding on 2 occasions including the last td run for miami... Chambers was holding the crap out of Ike Taylor and the ref was standing right there looking right straight at the play just like the one was watching the pass interference that see that one I guess...Give me a Break Dolphins and Seahawks fans... there is missed calls all during every game.. watch and behonest with yourself...I have heard so many announcers say that holding could be called on any play and there probably is on every play...Crybabies in Miami and Seattle need to watch the entire games and see what isnt called against your teams as well... I agree that that Was Not A TD.. but we would have had the ball at the 1 yard line.. of course who knows what would have happened.. but the game is over, So Live With It...

jaysta
09-08-2006, 07:15 PM
This is just plain silly, but I saw it coming as soon as the kick went off and the flag came in behind the ref. Look, the bottom line is, our defense just out right destroyed their offensive game plan. They didn't lose by only 4 points, Porter finished the game off with that int. and TD run. Not to mention that even if they put the ball on the one yard line, Parker or Haynes should have been able to get it in on the next play.

TexaSteeler
09-08-2006, 08:04 PM
We still score a TD next play and they still throw two picks... is the outcome any different?

shevdog
09-08-2006, 10:53 PM
I can recall several obvious missed called, such as pass interference and a late hit on a sliding Charlie. If Saben would have not hesitated and thrown it right in front of the ref, then he'd got that TD reversed. No biggie, since the Steelers would have gotten the TD the next play.

Jimmy James
09-09-2006, 04:25 AM
If you guys are finished beating up the strawman (you know, the non-existant Miami fan here who supposedly thinks the officials blowing this was game changing), I'll point out that there were absolutely no-calls and messed up calls going both ways. That's not what this is about. This is about the officials screwing up and the league making a PR campaign out of it against Saban to save their own butt. That's just fundamentally wrong, and I don't care which coach they threw to the dogs or what team it happened to. There are some things that just don't change with the team. The explanation the league is giving analytically turns the game into little more than professional wrestling if they're actually going to excuse officials for not seeing what they're supposed to be covering, which includes the head coaches challenging plays.

CaliforniaChris
09-09-2006, 05:56 AM
Steelers fans woulda done that same thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Steelers fan, but you know many Steelers fans have done that same kind of whining & blaming. So would've conspiracy theorists that every team seems to have in their fandom.

X-Terminator
09-09-2006, 06:56 AM
Steelers fans woulda done that same thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Steelers fan, but you know many Steelers fans have done that same kind of whining & blaming. So would've conspiracy theorists that every team seems to have in their fandom.

Steelers fans don't have to worry about such things because Cowher will do and has done everything he can to get the refs attention and can throw his flag farther than 2 feet because he isn't a girly man with a candy arm.

Mosca
09-09-2006, 07:06 AM
This is about the officials screwing up and the league making a PR campaign out of it against Saban to save their own butt.


I appreciate what you're saying here Jimmy, but I have to disagree with you. Saban had plenty of opportunity to make his challenge within the set procedure, and he chose what was probably the ONLY way to make it not work.

EVERY way that you might set it up will probably have some way that a guy COULD screw it up. I don't think it's unreasonable for the NFL (and fans) to expect that the coaches at least make an effort to do it right. Especially a coach as savvy as Saban. He was having fun waiting until the last second and it bit him in the ass. Next.


Tom

PhinPhan1227
09-09-2006, 07:16 AM
I thought he was referring to posts on Dolphins boards. While I know that there are rational people there who understand how things work, I also know that there are idiots there, just like there are here and everywhere. Since I have no inclination to go over there and pick fights with them, but I enjoy discussing the game, I decided that it would fill my needs to discuss it here.

I appreciate that some Fins fans come here and help out. I think that Jimmy James is doing a pretty good job of holding his own and has made a good general point, albeit in a discussion of a specific act. I disagree with him though, that the current procedure needs to be revamped. I think Saban blew it and is now trying to blame anyone but himself. He had ample time to challenge within the design of the current procedure, but chose to delay his challenge until it went unseen. The current procedure would have given the Dolphins another chance to force a fumble, to intercept, to make a 4 down stand... but Saban instead manipulated the situation into the only one that would have caused a controversy. He waited. And by doing that he did a disservice to the men who give him 100% effort... he didn't return that 100%.

You guys who have posted here are stand up all the way. I'd fight next to you any time. This is 1/16th of the season. We all know the feeling of having to wait another week for the wash of victory; I hope you get to feel it often this year.


Tom


Problem is, read the responses to this thread. How many Steelers fans read the title, and popped in to "pop off" with "You Phin fans need to quit whinning, we won, you lost" responses? You've painted us with a broad brush when you know quite well that of COURSE there will be a number of Mami fans who complain about the call, just as there would be if the situation were reversed and the Steelers had lost. Honestly, I can say with pride that the number of Miami fans who ARE complaining is quite small, a smaller percentage than many teams would see if they were in this situation.

On another note, something folks should consider is this...not throwing that flag in time is what gave Miami a chance to come back. If the review had been made, Miami would have won the challenge. The Steelers would have gotten the ball back and probably scored 7, but at least 3, and would have eaten a lot of clock. Not having the play reviewed gave Miami plenty of time to still win the game, they just didn't execute properly within that time. I wouldn't be surprised if that fact was in the back of Sabans mind when he was so wishy washy about throwing the flag.

jaysta
09-09-2006, 07:37 AM
The explanation the league is giving analytically turns the game into little more than professional wrestling if they're actually going to excuse officials for not seeing what they're supposed to be covering, which includes the head coaches challenging plays.

You know what, you are right about this. As long as a coach still has challenges available, someone from the field should have an eye on them until a kick is made after a touchdown. Especially when they are aware that the play could be reviewed. That being said, should a coach wait until the kicker is set up and then throw the flag behind the ref? No. Did it change the outcome of the game? No. Does it really matter now anyhow? No. Pittsburgh had tons of blatent calls blown last season (more than I can recall in recent years) and they went on to win the Super Bowl. Let's just hope that this was a lesson for the league and they put something in check for all future games.

Mosca
09-09-2006, 08:53 AM
Problem is, read the responses to this thread. How many Steelers fans read the title, and popped in to "pop off" with "You Phin fans need to quit whinning, we won, you lost" responses? You've painted us with a broad brush when you know quite well that of COURSE there will be a number of Mami fans who complain about the call, just as there would be if the situation were reversed and the Steelers had lost. Honestly, I can say with pride that the number of Miami fans who ARE complaining is quite small, a smaller percentage than many teams would see if they were in this situation.

Oh, I agree you're right about that. But isn't it part of the fun? I hope that you come around and razz us, too, when it's your turn!

On another note, something folks should consider is this...not throwing that flag in time is what gave Miami a chance to come back. If the review had been made, Miami would have won the challenge. The Steelers would have gotten the ball back and probably scored 7, but at least 3, and would have eaten a lot of clock. Not having the play reviewed gave Miami plenty of time to still win the game, they just didn't execute properly within that time. I wouldn't be surprised if that fact was in the back of Sabans mind when he was so wishy washy about throwing the flag.

Maybe, but maybe not. Show me a coach willing to give up 6 instead of stand and fight and I'll show you a loser. Against the Steelers defense, would you rather have to score twice in 6 minutes or once in 2?


Tom

SteelerMurf
09-09-2006, 11:36 AM
Let's apply this same thing to timeouts.

Why isn't the media upset that when a coach calls a timeout, sometimes the refs don't see the coach calling a time out and the play continues.

Not one time have I heard anyone in the media criticize the officials for not seeing a coach giving a timeout signal just before the ball is snapped. There is no call for a buzzer system for calling timeouts, there is no ESPN split screen and NFL Network bringing in the head of referees to grill him....you will only hear about a coach taking too long, etc.

Face it, the media hates Pittsburgh, it's a double standard. Penalties not called against the team playing Pitt is never discussed. That was one of the most blatent pass interference no calls I have ever seen. No mention and outrage or NFL Network questioning that play to the head of referees? A play that if Pittsburgh gets the ball at the spot of the foul you get no punt, no deep punt return, probably no score by Miami.

PhinPhan1227
09-09-2006, 02:44 PM
Oh, I agree you're right about that. But isn't it part of the fun? I hope that you come around and razz us, too, when it's your turn!



Maybe, but maybe not. Show me a coach willing to give up 6 instead of stand and fight and I'll show you a loser. Against the Steelers defense, would you rather have to score twice in 6 minutes or once in 2?


Tom


Not nessesarily. Look at Bellichick. He purposely gave up a Safety in order to play clock management. What good is it to fight for the 6 when the time it will take would lose you the game? Better the give up those points and keep the time to drive back and score yourself.

BlackNGoldFever
09-09-2006, 04:13 PM
This is all crap. Game's over man. Does anybody besides Lyn recognize the fact that even minus the 7 posted cuz of Saban's timidity we still win? Get over it Fins

pittsburgh$teelersfan
09-09-2006, 05:03 PM
Yeah right the fins still had chances to come back and win.

PhinPhan1227
09-09-2006, 05:18 PM
This is all crap. Game's over man. Does anybody besides Lyn recognize the fact that even minus the 7 posted cuz of Saban's timidity we still win? Get over it Fins


You people are killing me. So far I think I've seen more posts on this subject on this site than I fave on Fin sites.

Stillers#1
09-09-2006, 06:49 PM
I dont really think this is a big deal at all. We would have scored....the only way we were stoppe don the goal line was when we stopped ourselves.....so, no big whoop I think.

Jimmy James
09-09-2006, 11:39 PM
Steelers fans don't have to worry about such things because Cowher will do and has done everything he can to get the refs attention and can throw his flag farther than 2 feet because he isn't a girly man with a candy arm.

I think this is probably the last thing I'll post in this thread unless it takes another turn, but it's a good way to close it down:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/football/orl-dolphins0906sep09,0,3587492.story?coll=orl-sports-football

Mike Pereira, supervisor of officiating:

Nobody liked to see what happened, but when you're that close to the goal line, the official responsible for looking at the snap can't be looking other places. . . . This is the first time something like this happened in more than 300 stoppages. If it starts to happen more often, we'll have to take a look at it.

Saban (from a slightly different article):

I didn't realize that no one would see me throw the flag at that time. I promise you that I do have the speed and athleticism to get to them, so I have nobody to blame except me. But that's not why we won or lost the game.

I'll take this as a sign that the league will be a little better prepared if this happens again. It's kind of doubtful that it will, though. This is probably the biggest mocking of a coach that has happened since that Detroit coach kicked the ball away during overtime and lost.

83-Steelers-43
09-09-2006, 11:40 PM
Am I the only one that's completely tired of hearing about this?

Miami came, they saw, they lost. End of story.

Now, on to Jacksonville and if need be we will beat them with our second string QB like we did the Dolphins.

Week one is history.

stillers4me
09-10-2006, 08:24 AM
Am I the only one that's completely tired of hearing about this?

Miami came, they saw, they lost. End of story.

Now, on to Jacksonville and if need be we will beat them with our second string QB like we did the Dolphins.

Week one is history.

Hear, hear!!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/sueincinci/Steelers/steelersbang.gif

PhinPhan1227
09-10-2006, 06:12 PM
Am I the only one that's completely tired of hearing about this?

Miami came, they saw, they lost. End of story.

Now, on to Jacksonville and if need be we will beat them with our second string QB like we did the Dolphins.

Week one is history.

Once again, I will point out that it seems to me that Steelers fans are making a bigger deal out of this than Phin fans are. The media tried to make it a story, and Steelers fans bit hook, line, and sinker.

Jimmy James
09-10-2006, 06:20 PM
Did any of you see what happened to Parcells? He threw the flag just before a snap. The officials let the play stand, came over to him and talked to him about the flag, and then docked the Cowboys a time out because it was not something that was reviewable. There is no freaking way they got that call right no matter what you think of the Saban event. That just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If I know Parcells like I think I do, there is no way that is going to pass quietly.

The officials were pretty terrible in the Jags-Cowboys game, too. They robbed Matt Jones of a catch and a fumble that he recovered. The dude took two steps before being stripped!

"NobodyBelievedInUsButUs"
09-10-2006, 06:41 PM
Wah, Wah, Wah, Wah......:crying01: :jerkit:

Ohio Steeler
09-10-2006, 08:30 PM
This is for the fish fans who are still crying over the game

go f your self and get over it

PhinPhan1227
09-10-2006, 09:19 PM
This is for the fish fans who are still crying over the game

go f your self and get over it


Get a clue. There are more Steelers fans talking about this thanMiami fans.

Lyn
09-10-2006, 09:26 PM
No steeler fan gives a rat's a$$.

We got the W.

Ohio Steeler
09-10-2006, 09:29 PM
Get a clue. There are more Steelers fans talking about this thanMiami fans.

LOL

ok keep thinking that

83-Steelers-43
09-10-2006, 09:31 PM
Once again, I will point out that it seems to me that Steelers fans are making a bigger deal out of this than Phin fans are. The media tried to make it a story, and Steelers fans bit hook, line, and sinker.


And I never brought up either fanbase. Then again.....if you have a problem with what is being said on this board, you always have Buffalo's (future opponent) board to jump on now. I mean, if it bothers you that much. If not, you can always opt to not open a specific thread. Crazy huh?

Personally, I don't give a shit about the Dolphins at this point in time. I don't care what their fans or their HC have to say. Please understand that. Your replying/responding to the wrong person. They came, they saw and they lost. Time to move on. I'm looking at Jacksonville.........Miami is history.

hardwork
09-10-2006, 09:58 PM
The Steelers get the no-touchdown touchdown and then ran around at the end of the game like they won the SB again. I guess in a way they did. The SB win was zebra assisted also.

BlackNGold203
09-10-2006, 10:05 PM
The Steelers get the no-touchdown touchdown and then ran around at the end of the game like they won the SB again. I guess in a way they did. The SB win was zebra assisted also.

Wow..I dont remember seeing the Steelers running anywhere...we win all the time..we're used to it...:cool: :cool:

83-Steelers-43
09-10-2006, 10:06 PM
http://www.eve-files.com/media/0603/retard.jpg With some people, it's just not worth it....

Ohio Steeler
09-10-2006, 10:06 PM
http://www.eve-files.com/media/0603/retard.jpg

LMAO

hardwork
09-10-2006, 10:18 PM
Making fun of the disabled. How courageous. In case you don't have the IQ to figure it out, that's a real person in that picture.

83-Steelers-43
09-10-2006, 10:43 PM
LMAO

Bottomline, some people are not worth talking to or fighting with. Some simply look for/or start trouble. No matter what, you won't win brother. :smile:

Once again, BRING ON JACKSONVILLE. WHO RIDE?

jaysta
09-10-2006, 10:47 PM
Wow! Is this thread still going?

PhinPhan1227
09-10-2006, 10:48 PM
And I never brought up either fanbase. Then again.....if you have a problem with what is being said on this board, you always have Buffalo's (future opponent) board to jump on now. I mean, if it bothers you that much. If not, you can always opt to not open a specific thread. Crazy huh?

Personally, I don't give a shit about the Dolphins at this point in time. I don't care what their fans or their HC have to say. Please understand that. Your replying/responding to the wrong person. They came, they saw and they lost. Time to move on. I'm looking at Jacksonville.........Miami is history.


Yes, we came, we saw, and we lost. And I gave credit where it was due immediately after the game. And yet this subject keeps getting hit after hit on this board. I only respond to Steelers fans who keep bringing it up.

As for not disagreeing with what is posted on this board, aren't roughly half the posts here in response to other posts that the poster disagrees with?

83-Steelers-43
09-10-2006, 10:48 PM
Wow! Is this thread still going?

Yes....unfortunately. I tried to kill it. I really did.

83-Steelers-43
09-10-2006, 10:49 PM
Yes, we came, we saw, and we lost. And I gave credit where it was due immediately after the game. And yet this subject keeps getting hit after hit on this board. I only respond to Steelers fans who keep bringing it up.

As for not disagreeing with what is posted on this board, aren't roughly half the posts here in response to other posts that the poster disagrees with?

And once again, you responded to the wrong person to begin with. Post #'s 93 and 111. That's all I have to say on this topic.

X-Terminator
09-10-2006, 11:15 PM
Making fun of the disabled. How courageous. In case you don't have the IQ to figure it out, that's a real person in that picture.

I suppose you've never heard that saying in real life? Because it's the truth - arguing on the internet is completely and utterly pointless. And how exactly is that "making fun of the disabled?" Enlighten me.

Or is it more likely that you're deliberately being an ignorant troll again?

hardwork
09-11-2006, 12:49 AM
I suppose you've never heard that saying in real life? Because it's the truth - arguing on the internet is completely and utterly pointless. And how exactly is that "making fun of the disabled?" Enlighten me.

Or is it more likely that you're deliberately being an ignorant troll again?


From Mr. X-Terminator.

X-Terminator
09-11-2006, 01:34 AM
Serious question, dude. What is your problem? It seems all you ever do is try to provoke the members here. And when you get called on it or people take issue with things you say, you point fingers, try to play Mr. Innocent and tell us to chill out. You have good football knowledge - stick with that instead of deliberately pissing people off.

HometownGal
09-11-2006, 06:45 AM
Yes....unfortunately. I tried to kill it. I really did.

I also tried to kill it way back at Post #72. This goes beyond beating a dead horse. :rolleyes: The game is OVER, the Steelers won, the Fins lost, Saban admitted he was a bonehead and the season rolls on.

BlackNGold203
09-11-2006, 06:52 AM
I also tried to kill it way back at Post #72. This goes beyond beating a dead horse. :rolleyes: The game is OVER, the Steelers won, the Fins lost, Saban admitted he was a bonehead and the season rolls on.

HTG GETS THE FINAL WORD

Thread closed