PDA

View Full Version : do the refs know what a catch is???


tony hipchest
09-19-2006, 10:25 AM
we all know they blew troys int against the colts last year. last week matt joned had an exellent reception taken away. and last night cedric wilson had the ball for almost 2 seconds as 2 feet were down and he fell on his butt.

if that pass had been ruled complete (which it was) and then reviewed, the completion wouldve stood. the refs need to take a "tie goes to the runner" approach when it comes to making these calls.

the steelers were easilly moving the ball through the air at that point. ben wouldve been 3-3 and couldve driven the ball down and scored.

after that momentum killing incompletion cowher predictably took the air out of the ball and tried to establish the run. jacksonville was all over it.

i also gotta bitch about the horrible call on keisel for roughing the passer, as it was so nicely called the kimo rule. refs blew that one too!

it wasnt just one sided. there was a bad call against the jags (i forget which play) but it was an obvious make up call, for the 2 screw ups against the steelers.

while no calls impacted the game they did kill a steelers drive and give jacksonville 15 free yards in what was a defensive struggle that came down to field goals.

Justin Otstott
09-19-2006, 11:02 AM
Its looked like to me Cedric had the ball and then was stripped causing a fumble that went out-of-bounds! Anybody agree?

JagFan
09-19-2006, 11:28 AM
Its looked like to me Cedric had the ball and then was stripped causing a fumble that went out-of-bounds! Anybody agree?


Reply clearly showed, that as he was falling to the ground, the ball was coming out. The receiver must maintain possession of the ball as he falls to the ground. It is not as simple as having the ball and 2 feet on the ground. I believe the competition committee updated the rules a couple of years ago, in which you must maintain possession of the ball as you fall to the ground.

tony hipchest
09-19-2006, 11:34 AM
Reply clearly showed, that as he was falling to the ground, the ball was coming out. The receiver must maintain possession of the ball as he falls to the ground. It is not as simple as having the ball and 2 feet on the ground. I believe the competition committee updated the rules a couple of years ago, in which you must maintain possession of the ball as you fall to the ground.the refs have been off. how long do you have to hold onto a ball before it is a catch. even if he did fumble, it was in his possession long enough to establish a catch. and this gripe isnt just about last night. here you have receivers making excellent catches all the tiime only to have them ripped away by the refs. the 2 best recent examples i can think of right now is matt jones last week and of course the polamalu int.

i was amazed that the refs let the bears b. berrians td catch stand (as it should have). 9 times out of 10 its like they will get out a telescope to see if the ball touches one blade of grass and rule that play incomplete.

X-Terminator
09-19-2006, 11:40 AM
Reply clearly showed, that as he was falling to the ground, the ball was coming out. The receiver must maintain possession of the ball as he falls to the ground. It is not as simple as having the ball and 2 feet on the ground. I believe the competition committee updated the rules a couple of years ago, in which you must maintain possession of the ball as you fall to the ground.

Correct, and if Cedric's back had hit the ground and then the ball was ripped out, then it would have been a completion. So the refs got it right.

JustaFan
09-19-2006, 11:43 AM
Correct, and if Cedric's back had hit the ground and then the ball was ripped out, then it would have been a completion. So the refs got it right.

:thumbsup: He made no "football move". This was not a catch.

tony hipchest
09-19-2006, 11:50 AM
:thumbsup: He made no "football move". This was not a catch. yeah, that "football move" crap pisses me off. i mean a catch is a catch, and a football move is a football move.

i know the rules have been geared up to favor the offenses and protect the qb but there are just too many games where good legitimat "catches" are erased. i believe all you should have to do to catch the ball is catch the ball.

the competition committee has made it so difficult that you have refs who dont know what to call or how to call it. way too analytical.

ThatGuy246
09-19-2006, 11:58 AM
Okay, I'm new here, so please excuse my painful lack of understanding...

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not complaining about the officiating or blaming it for the loss, and I apologize if someone has already raised the issue. Someone mentioned the "Kimo Rule" that was cited against Kiesel in the first half. The last time that Jax sacked Roethlisberger, on the replay it looked like the lineman (I don't know his name, sorry) made a very distinct second effort to bring him down by lunging at Ben's knees. Isn't that exactly what we were flagged for in the first quarter?

Many thanks to anyone who can shed light on the rule...

-A displaced Pittsburgher, but always a Pittsburgher at heart

Justin Otstott
09-19-2006, 12:14 PM
To me it was a catch but by the rules I guess it wasnt...I dunnoo...

24~show your love~43
09-19-2006, 12:15 PM
Its looked like to me Cedric had the ball and then was stripped causing a fumble that went out-of-bounds! Anybody agree?

i agree completely!!!!

wadester47
09-19-2006, 12:18 PM
yeah i agree

SteelerFanInCA
09-19-2006, 12:24 PM
It looked like a catch from my end. That's just the breaks, sometimes you get the calls and sometimes they go against you.

GoFor6
09-19-2006, 12:26 PM
The refs did a great job all game long - we got our butts kicked to a very good team on their tuff - so what. Ben was rusty, Troy is hurt - he should not have played - he had no right arm all game. I am a little concerned how the OL got handled. Holmes played like a rookie but it was good to see him out there.

Nate catches 3 and ahead of schedule for 32 for the regular season.

tony hipchest
09-19-2006, 12:28 PM
Okay, I'm new here, so please excuse my painful lack of understanding...

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not complaining about the officiating or blaming it for the loss, and I apologize if someone has already raised the issue. Someone mentioned the "Kimo Rule" that was cited against Kiesel in the first half. The last time that Jax sacked Roethlisberger, on the replay it looked like the lineman (I don't know his name, sorry) made a very distinct second effort to bring him down by lunging at Ben's knees. Isn't that exactly what we were flagged for in the first quarter?

Many thanks to anyone who can shed light on the rule...

-A displaced Pittsburgher, but always a Pittsburgher at heart

yes. the screwy thing is, is that keisel hit leftwich in the waist. the whole thing with the kimo rule is that youre not supposed to tackle a qb from below the knee. the way it was called last night seems that if you hit or tackle a qb anywhere you better not let any part of your body come in contact with the knee.

and this isnt just an anti steelers gripe. the refs let r. williams spear an unprotected leftwich in the chest with the crown of his helmet in game 1 with no flag.

JustaFan
09-19-2006, 12:30 PM
This may be a little off-topic, but I've got to say that's a horrible rule to begin with.

So one guy got hurt from a low tackle -- by accident, I should add. Why the hell do you need to make a league-wide rule like that because of it? Accidents happen. It's not like guys are out there trying to hurt each other with cheap shots on every play.

I forget which announcer it was that said it after Keisel's penalty, but he said, "You can't hit the quarterback high and you can't hit him low. I guess you can't hit the quarterback at all anymore."

This is a stupid rule, and they need to wipe it from the books before it costs some hapless team a game for no reason. Not at the end of the season -- like, next week.

Becuase ben-GAL fans cry loud & long.

stlrtruck
09-19-2006, 01:04 PM
I think it was once said the NFL stands for the No Fun League. The NFL has taken the fun away from the Defensive players and given the offensive side of the ball liberties to help run up the scores of the game.
I remember back in the day when QBs were football players first and QBs second. But yet because a high profile player gets injured they want to change the rules to make it harder for the Defense to make plays.
I figure one day we'll get a NFL Commissioner that remembers those days, strip some of these bs rules aside and let football be football!

As for the play, I think it was a catch (especially after he had two feet down). Besides isn't it kind of hard to make a football move when your being tackled as soon as you do touch the ball? I don't think the NFL is clear on their own rules and therefore the refs can't keep it straight.

HometownGal
09-19-2006, 01:32 PM
I remember back in the day when QBs were football players first and QBs second. But yet because a high profile player gets injured they want to change the rules to make it harder for the Defense to make plays.
I figure one day we'll get a NFL Commissioner that remembers those days, strip some of these bs rules aside and let football be football!

Amen brotha! :jammin: I've been working OT on my soapbox for years on that same issue. That tackle on Leftwich last night was just that - a tackle. There was nothing late or dirty about it and he did not go for Byron's knees. What a crock of poo that call was. Football is a rough and rumble game or at least it used to be. The NFL pussifies it more and more every season and it's getting beyond ridiculous.

Haiku_Dirtt
09-19-2006, 02:38 PM
Reply clearly showed, that as he was falling to the ground, the ball was coming out. The receiver must maintain possession of the ball as he falls to the ground. It is not as simple as having the ball and 2 feet on the ground. I believe the competition committee updated the rules a couple of years ago, in which you must maintain possession of the ball as you fall to the ground.

It was not a completion.

But. Replay clearly showed that Cedric Wilson better learn how to clutch the FREAKING ball. Right now the receivers with the exception of Nate Washington have some serious work to do in preparation for Week 3.

ThatGuy246
09-19-2006, 02:49 PM
In my very lay opinion, I agree that it wasn't a completion. We had a bigger problems getting things to "click" offensively than were the officials. Roethlisberger shook off some rust, Parker is probably fired up too, and Davenport will have had another week toward learning the playbook and should soon become a contributor. Next week, with a newfound fire lit under the team's collective butt, should be a different story. (And, on a related note, the defense [despite the lack of many 'big plays' outside of Haggans' heads-up move to intercept that deflection] deserves tremendous credit for really putting a crimp in the Jags' potent offense.)

But, on Haiku's note, I think Washington really has been a bright spot at this very early point in the season. Here's to him continuing to develop into a legit threat...

-DJ

19ward86
09-19-2006, 02:51 PM
CATCH...FUMBLE....CHEATED

cmdrfunk
09-19-2006, 03:03 PM
i also gotta bitch about the horrible call on keisel for roughing the passer, as it was so nicely called the kimo rule. refs blew that one too!


Um he hit the qb late AND low.

bozz723
09-19-2006, 04:24 PM
Here is what happened. Cedric had the ball, took 3 steps , then got the ball stripped, and it went out of bounds. That is a fumble. Now, lets look at an example.. Lets say a receiver catches a crossing route in the middle of the field, runs across the field, with the ball, to the other sideline. However, before he reached the sideline he we was hit and fumbled the ball, and the ball went out of bounds. That would NOT be ruled an incompletion would it ? No. Why ? Because the receiver clearly established posession of the ball, then fumbled it. That is what Cedric did. Established posession of the ball then fumbled it. The ref got it right at first, it wasa completion.

stlrtruck
09-19-2006, 04:32 PM
Yeah but they have the dumb "football move" rule.

Midnightwriter07
09-19-2006, 06:51 PM
Why do i keep hearing people saying .. Cowher runs the offense ... when we were winning everyone was saying Whiz is the one who called the plays ??? He was gonna be our next coach !! We lose and now is Cowher calling them?

pleasseee not this year ... year after year when we lose comes the "Cowher bashing" .. please decide if it is Cowher or Whiz calling the plays and stick to one of them .. not just when we win or lose and then change who you want to blame. I didnt see a problem with the play calling, i saw a problem with execution.. O LINE, Receivers, Ben .... not the play calling... please not again this year.

Infamix
09-19-2006, 08:02 PM
I think he caught the ball but by the time it got stripped, he could not have made an "athletic move" so it got called incomplete. Weird rule, but seemed like the right call to me.

Steel Pit
09-20-2006, 01:51 AM
Why do i keep hearing people saying .. Cowher runs the offense ... when we were winning everyone was saying Whiz is the one who called the plays ??? He was gonna be our next coach !! We lose and now is Cowher calling them?

pleasseee not this year ... year after year when we lose comes the "Cowher bashing" .. please decide if it is Cowher or Whiz calling the plays and stick to one of them .. not just when we win or lose and then change who you want to blame. I didnt see a problem with the play calling, i saw a problem with execution.. O LINE, Receivers, Ben .... not the play calling... please not again this year.


Well it's quite obvious to me. When Cowher starts making the offensive calls it's all about "We're going to impose our will onto them and run the ball down their throats no matter how ineffective it is". During the game I made mention to a buddy of mine that "It's quite obvious that Cowher has his nose burried in the offensive play calling".

I'm not bashing Cowher but once again, you can certainly tell when Cowher has a major input into the offensive play calls. My only gripe with the running plays from Monday night is that they continued to run out of that "VERY-INEFFECTIVE SINGLE BACK FORMATION". I hate when they run out of that formation.

Maybe I had a few too many cold pops Monday night so correct me if I'm wrong on this.
Where in the H E L L was Dan Krieder?

cmdrfunk
09-20-2006, 12:02 PM
I think he caught the ball but by the time it got stripped, he could not have made an "athletic move" so it got called incomplete. Weird rule, but seemed like the right call to me.


Isn't catching the ball cleanly with both hands above your head and then pulling it to your chest demonstrating control of the ball while slightly turning your body and landing on both feet an athletic move?

He was better off leaving his arms stretched above his head and holding onto it while taking a knee.

Midnightwriter07
09-20-2006, 01:13 PM
Well it's quite obvious to me. When Cowher starts making the offensive calls it's all about "We're going to impose our will onto them and run the ball down their throats no matter how ineffective it is". During the game I made mention to a buddy of mine that "It's quite obvious that Cowher has his nose burried in the offensive play calling".

I'm not bashing Cowher but once again, you can certainly tell when Cowher has a major input into the offensive play calls. My only gripe with the running plays from Monday night is that they continued to run out of that "VERY-INEFFECTIVE SINGLE BACK FORMATION". I hate when they run out of that formation.

Maybe I had a few too many cold pops Monday night so correct me if I'm wrong on this.
Where in the H E L L was Dan Krieder?


AND you know when Cowher is calling plays and which ones he does ? Interesting because i never heard him say that, the only plays i actually have heard that he has anything to do with is the trick plays which are run by him first. I didnt recall seeing Cowher with a playbook on the sideline and covering it over his mouth as he was putting the play in. Again, we WIN and is WHIZ calling the plays to alot of people, we LOSE then it had to have been Cowher ... you should probably check that out first before assuming who is doing what. I guess this means Cowher is calling the Defenses too when we get scored on and Dickie L is calling them when we do well.