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Stlrs4Life
10-01-2006, 09:58 PM
NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Tennessee defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth was ejected early in the third quarter Sunday after he kicked Dallas center Andre Gurode in the face. Now the tackle expects to be punished, and knows he deserves it.




"I apologize to Andre," Haynesworth said. "What I did was disgusting. It's something that should never happen. I mean, I'm not a dirty player. I don't play dirty. I have respect for the game. What I feel like is I disgraced the game, disgraced my team and disgraced my last name."

Julius Jones had just scored on a 5-yard run, putting Dallas up 20-6 in what wound up as a 45-14 victory. Gurode's helmet came off, and Haynesworth, standing over him, used his right foot to kick Gurode in the head.

Gurode said they hadn't been talking or having any exchanges that led to Haynesworth kicking him twice. He received stitches above his forehead and beneath his eye.
"In all my years of football, this has never happened to me. I've never been kicked in the face like this, and I've never seen anybody kick nobody else in the face," Gurode said.
A flag was thrown, and Haynesworth followed an official toward the Titans' sideline, protesting.

Haynesworth pulled off his helmet and slammed it to the ground, prompting another flag. Referee Jerome Boger disqualified Haynesworth, and the player walked off the field after talking briefly with Titans coach Jeff Fisher.
The coach called Haynesworth's actions unacceptable and promised he would be punished by the Titans even if the NFL disciplines him.
"It's ridiculous to get to that point. Two back-to-back penalties like that, there's no place for it," Fisher said.
Gurode didn't play the rest of the second half.
"This vision was kind of blurry in my left eye," he said. "If it was clear, I would have tried to come back in to play"

Information from ESPN.com's John Clayton and The Associated Press was used in this report.


Link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2609563

CantStop85
10-01-2006, 10:02 PM
It was so blatantly malicious...I don't know how you can keep a guy like that on your team. It was 10x worse than what Marcus Vick did against Louisville. The Dallas player needed 30 stitches...there's just no need for it.

Lyn
10-01-2006, 10:19 PM
Madden & Michaels were just talking about it. That was unnecessary and I agree with cantstop, how can you keep a player on your team that is costing you silly penalities?


:dang:

tony hipchest
10-01-2006, 10:20 PM
not only did he need 30 stitches, hes lucky to still have an eyeball in its orbital. pretty disgusting. a crime befitting only of a bengal.

tony hipchest
10-01-2006, 10:21 PM
and I agree with cantstop, how can you keep a player on your team that is costing you silly penalities?


:dang:just ask marvin lewis.

"dey got talent" :yawn:

stillers4me
10-01-2006, 10:51 PM
Absolutely disgusting.

If I went to work tomorrow and something like that to a coworker, I'd be fired and criminal charges would be filed against me. That's exactly what should happen to this guy........but they'll slap him on the hand for a couple of games and he'll be back making a bazillion dollars. It's not a wonder the thugs in Cincy get away with they do.

BlackNGold203
10-01-2006, 11:00 PM
this is a huge test for the NFL...and a perfect opportunity for them to make a strong statement in regards to behavior....

Too bad they wont take advantage of the opportunity....:dang:

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
10-01-2006, 11:04 PM
suspended for the year!!!

Hines0wnz
10-01-2006, 11:48 PM
Chance for the new Commish to make a statement. Let's see what he does.

Stillers#1
10-01-2006, 11:58 PM
Madden & Michaels were just talking about it. That was unnecessary and I agree with cantstop, how can you keep a player on your team that is costing you silly penalities?


:dang:

How many downs of Football have you played? It is a very emotional game. A lot worse than this goes on in the bottom of piles, in the trenches, etc. It's easy to say that a player is wrong for doing this, especially w/o having ever been in that situaiton yourself. Haynesworth is a human being who made a mistake...get over it.

X-Terminator
10-02-2006, 01:03 AM
How many downs of Football have you played? It is a very emotional game. A lot worse than this goes on in the bottom of piles, in the trenches, etc. It's easy to say that a player is wrong for doing this, especially w/o having ever been in that situaiton yourself. Haynesworth is a human being who made a mistake...get over it.

Why does it matter how many downs of football he or anyone else has played? What Haynesworth did was wrong, and he deserves a very severe punishment. Period. And I don't want to hear "it's an emotional game" - that kind of crap cannot be allowed or justified by ANYONE.

hardwork
10-02-2006, 02:23 AM
Why does it matter how many downs of football he or anyone else has played? What Haynesworth did was wrong, and he deserves a very severe punishment. Period. And I don't want to hear "it's an emotional game" - that kind of crap cannot be allowed or justified by ANYONE.

Amen.

Mosca
10-02-2006, 10:10 AM
How many downs of Football have you played? It is a very emotional game. A lot worse than this goes on in the bottom of piles, in the trenches, etc. It's easy to say that a player is wrong for doing this, especially w/o having ever been in that situaiton yourself. Haynesworth is a human being who made a mistake...get over it.

Uh, a lot goes on in the trenches, but I don't think anything as bad as this. This was comparable to taking a knife into the pile and stabbing someone. If that happens down there, let us know.

I played a down or two, a long time ago. Yeah it's emotional, but it's controlled emotion, directed. Otherwise they'd get rid of the officials and the scoreboard and call it "street fighting".

ch33ky_chikk
10-02-2006, 10:35 AM
How many downs of Football have you played? It is a very emotional game. A lot worse than this goes on in the bottom of piles, in the trenches, etc. It's easy to say that a player is wrong for doing this, especially w/o having ever been in that situaiton yourself. Haynesworth is a human being who made a mistake...get over it.

BULL SHIT !!!
I have no intention of getting over it.

I say Albert Haynesworth should do jail time!

Haynesworth kicking an opponent (Addre Gurode) in the head ... baring his head of his helmet and then STOMPING on him is not only unacceptable, unsportsman like conduct ...
IT IS CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR !!!

The NFL needs to send a message loud and clear this is not going to be tolerated!

I do not think Haynesworth should ever be allowed to play football again.

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/m3/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpghttp://www.topix.net/pics/ntd-2930750652328367259038280104242367094361

A tap on the wrist with a token fine that would be easier for this MoFo to pay than a $10 parking ticket is for me will not work. The Commissioner needs to send a message loud and clear that this type of behavior will not be accepted.

Otherwise the next "emotional" player hopped up on steroids with a lack of impulse control might do something even worse. For the love of mud it is American Football not American History X.

I say draw the line. Slap some hand cuffs on him and send him to jail.
Permanently ban Haynesworth from ever playing football.

He is suppose to be a role model. Do we really want high school kids thinking this is acceptable behavior? Stomp on an opponent ... Slam your own helmet on the ground ... Pay a little fine ... sit out a few games and then every thing is hunky dorey.

What the hell next? Shivs? Guns?

floodcitygirl
10-02-2006, 10:37 AM
I have not seen a replay but from what I've heard described, I'm wondering why he wasn't taken off the field in handcuffs, charged with assult. That attack had nothing to do with football, from my understanding. The play was long over.

sumo
10-02-2006, 11:55 AM
How many downs of Football have you played? It is a very emotional game. A lot worse than this goes on in the bottom of piles, in the trenches, etc. It's easy to say that a player is wrong for doing this, especially w/o having ever been in that situaiton yourself. Haynesworth is a human being who made a mistake...get over it.

I played a lot of years of football -- never professionally -- and I remember all sorts of things happening -especially during a heated game -- but I never saw anything like this -- the guy (Haynesworth) appears to have a real anger problem -- he had to be restrained after he did it -- but then was very sorry and apologetic less than an hour after the incident... this dude has issues...

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-02-2006, 12:02 PM
How many downs of Football have you played? It is a very emotional game. A lot worse than this goes on in the bottom of piles, in the trenches, etc. It's easy to say that a player is wrong for doing this, especially w/o having ever been in that situaiton yourself. Haynesworth is a human being who made a mistake...get over it.

WTF!!!! I have played high school and College ball and I have NEVER seen anything in the "trenches"..or in the bottom of a pile that is worst than running a cleat across the exposed head of a player..AFTER THE PLAY!!!!! Yes..humans make mistakes..and when they make mistakes of that magnitude we have laws to deal with them...we dont "just get over it"..we incarcerate!!!!!:dang: :dang: :dang: :dang: :dang: :dang: :dang: :dang:
...and believe me ..in my line of work I have seen MANY Thugs who are soooooo sorry for their actions when they have to confront repricussions!!!!

HometownGal
10-02-2006, 12:35 PM
How many downs of Football have you played? It is a very emotional game. A lot worse than this goes on in the bottom of piles, in the trenches, etc. It's easy to say that a player is wrong for doing this, especially w/o having ever been in that situaiton yourself. Haynesworth is a human being who made a mistake...get over it.

I'm sure you'd have a very different attitude if some animal in gear and pads did that to your son (if you have one and from your post above, I hope you don't) or to someone you care about. :rolleyes:

This vicious bastard should be thrown out of the NFL on his fat behind. There is no place in any sport for malicious behavior like that. He most definitely should have been arrested right then and there for assault and led off the field in cuffs.

Here's the video for those who haven't watched it yet. The actual assault is at the very end of the clip.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CwxMRPTsYeo

Livinginthe past
10-02-2006, 12:51 PM
I'm sure you'd have a very different attitude if some animal in gear and pads did that to your son (if you have one and from your post above, I hope you don't) or to someone you care about. :rolleyes:

This vicious bastard should be thrown out of the NFL on his fat behind. There is no place in any sport for malicious behavior like that. He most definitely should have been arrested right then and there for assault and led off the field in cuffs.

Here's the video for those who haven't watched it yet. The actual assault is at the very end of the clip.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CwxMRPTsYeo

Was just about to post a link myself.

Absolutely cowardly, vicious attack on a prone opponent - this guy should never play the game again.

I dont like players that go over the top - late hitting a QB for example, but this was in a whole other world.

Cowboys guy is lucky he has his sight intact - I like Jeff Fisher and I hope he does the right thing and cuts this guy loose.

NM

BlackNGold203
10-02-2006, 12:58 PM
That wasnt emotion...it had nothing to do with the game...it was a premeditated conscious attack on another player without his headgear....

If they just wrist slap this guy....I'll be amazed.....

BlackNGold203
10-02-2006, 01:01 PM
How many downs of Football have you played? It is a very emotional game. A lot worse than this goes on in the bottom of piles, in the trenches, etc. It's easy to say that a player is wrong for doing this, especially w/o having ever been in that situaiton yourself. Haynesworth is a human being who made a mistake...get over it.

With all due respect bro...I've played the game...and you are dead wrong...this attack had NOTHING to do with the game....if YOU have played the game...you know that you have to control those emotions to be an effective player....sorry buddy...I gotta call you out on the statement you made...youre wrong

tony hipchest
10-02-2006, 01:01 PM
Cowboys guy is lucky he has his sight intact - I like Jeff Fisher and I hope he does the right thing and cuts this guy loose.

NMhe needs to be suspended and then benched otherwise the bengals will pick him up in a microsecond. haynesworth is a talented player.

the only other similar incident i kan think of is romanowski going roid rage on his oakland teammate. i cant remember the fine but it was small and i think he was suspended 1 preseason game that he wouldnt have played much in anyways.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-02-2006, 01:22 PM
With all due respect bro...I've played the game...and you are dead wrong...this attack had NOTHING to do with the game....if YOU have played the game...you know that you have to control those emotions to be an effective player....sorry buddy...I gotta call you out on the statement you made...youre wrong

Exactly!!!! I think I first heard the term "controlled aggression" in junior league football at the age of 9!!!!!!...this isnt a new concept for this player to grasp!

Stillers#1
10-02-2006, 01:23 PM
With all due respect bro...I've played the game...and you are dead wrong...this attack had NOTHING to do with the game....if YOU have played the game...you know that you have to control those emotions to be an effective player....sorry buddy...I gotta call you out on the statement you made...youre wrong

With all due respect, this is no worse then when Troy throws a punch, or Porters (those OBVIOUSLY weren't pre0meditated) gets into a fight before the game even starts. Haynesworth is a very effective player, who has never had issues before, at least that I know of. I sincerely do not believ jail-time should even be thought of. This shit happens. Once again get over it.

Don't be hypocrites.

Stillers#1
10-02-2006, 01:25 PM
(if you have one and from your post above, I hope you don't)

So, b/c I don't think this is as big of a deal as you people are blowing it up to be, I don't deserve to have children. Obviously I would raise my kids to kick people in the middle of a football game. I never said I don't think he doesn't deserve to be punished, I just think you guys are making too big a deal of it. Like I said, if Peezy or someone in Black and Gold did this, most people here would be rushing to defend him.

HometownGal
10-02-2006, 01:26 PM
the only other similar incident i kan think of is romanowski going roid rage on his oakland teammate. i cant remember the fine but it was small and i think he was suspended 1 preseason game that he wouldnt have played much in anyways.

When I first saw this, it brought back memories of Turkey Jones grabbing Bradshaw, lifting him up, turning him over and spearing his head into the ground. I'll never forget it.

It really troubled me listening to the Titans fans booing in that video when Haynesworth was ejected. I hope Fisher keeps his promise to punish this monster in addition to any action the NFL might take.

HometownGal
10-02-2006, 01:30 PM
So, b/c I don't think this is as big of a deal as you people are blowing it up to be, I don't deserve to have children. Obviously I would raise my kids to kick people in the middle of a football game. I never said I don't think he doesn't deserve to be punished, I just think you guys are making too big a deal of it. Like I said, if Peezy or someone in Black and Gold did this, most people here would be rushing to defend him.

Making too big a deal of it? It's not like we see this type of unprovoked and brutal assault on a defenseless and prone player on a football field on a regular basis. C'mon - be reasonable here, stillers!

I can say with 100% certainty that most people here would have had the same reaction if it were Peezy or any other member of the black and gold. I know I would without hesitation.

steeler-dude
10-02-2006, 01:32 PM
With all due respect, this is no worse then when Troy throws a punch, or Porters (those OBVIOUSLY weren't pre0meditated) gets into a fight before the game even starts. Haynesworth is a very effective player, who has never had issues before, at least that I know of. I sincerely do not believ jail-time should even be thought of. This shit happens. Once again get over it.

Don't be hypocrites.


Troy or Porter have NEVER done anthing close to that!

memphissteelergirl
10-02-2006, 01:44 PM
this is a huge test for the NFL...and a perfect opportunity for them to make a strong statement in regards to behavior....

Too bad they wont take advantage of the opportunity....:dang:


Sad but true...

Stillers#1
10-02-2006, 01:45 PM
I guess my point is, you guys are so quick to call this guy a "monster" when has made one ...bear with me now....MISTAKE. It was a stupid, cruel thing to do, and I believe Haynesworth knows this. He will get suspened for 2-5 games, and we will never hear about this incident again. Just like the Marcus Vick incident last year. I am not condonig this behavior at all, however, I don't think this makes him a bad person.

If this had happened on a street corner, I would say, " jail him". But it happened on a football field, where all kind of not very nice talk is going on. I personally have never done anything like this (I have thrown a punch or two on the football field), but like I said, it is a very emotional game, especially in the NFL. Obviously, everyone here is perfect, and has never done anything terrible.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." John 8:7

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-02-2006, 01:48 PM
So, b/c I don't think this is as big of a deal as you people are blowing it up to be, I don't deserve to have children. Obviously I would raise my kids to kick people in the middle of a football game. I never said I don't think he doesn't deserve to be punished, I just think you guys are making too big a deal of it. Like I said, if Peezy or someone in Black and Gold did this, most people here would be rushing to defend him.

WHAT!!! There is no way that ANYONE should defend ANY player who blatantly tries to injure another player....Regardles of the team....But a portion of common sense needs to be applied here...as a player you EXPECT tackles,pushing and even some punches thrown...They have always been part of the game and YOU HAVE PROTECTIVE GEAR ON!!!!......but purposely going for a persons HEAD with your cleats...when you KNOW that his helmet is off is a BIG DEAL...How can you NOT SEE THAT:dang:

Let me put it to you this way....I expect to be punched in a boxing match...I have a right to REASONBLY ASSUME that my opponant wont BITE MY EAR OFF when we are locked up!!!!

HometownGal
10-02-2006, 02:09 PM
I guess my point is, you guys are so quick to call this guy a "monster" when has made one ...bear with me now....MISTAKE. It was a stupid, cruel thing to do, and I believe Haynesworth knows this. He will get suspened for 2-5 games, and we will never hear about this incident again. Just like the Marcus Vick incident last year. I am not condonig this behavior at all, however, I don't think this makes him a bad person.

If this had happened on a street corner, I would say, " jail him". But it happened on a football field, where all kind of not very nice talk is going on. I personally have never done anything like this (I have thrown a punch or two on the football field), but like I said, it is a very emotional game, especially in the NFL. Obviously, everyone here is perfect, and has never done anything terrible.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." John 8:7

A MISTAKE????? :jawdrop: Deliberately, wantonly and willfully stomping on a defenseless opponent's head with a cleated shoe is a mistake? :dang: :dang: :dang: This behavior is expected to happen in da hood, not on a freakin' football field!!! So - what you're inferring is - just because it happened on a football field and not "a street corner" - it should be considered "acceptable"? Where the hell is your heart stillers?

As far as me being without sin, I am not. But I can honestly say with a clear mind and heart that I've never - nor would I ever - deliberately injure another human being because I couldn't keep my emotions in check.

Jail the vicious bastard and toss him out of the NFL. Maybe he and Mike Tyson can beat and bite each other to death.

floodcitygirl
10-02-2006, 02:11 PM
That attack had NOTHING to do with football! Notice I said attack...not mistake. That guy obviously has anger/aggression issues. He has no business playing in the NFL after that conduct and I personally believe he deserves jail time. I would say the same thing if that was a Steeler player and would be one of the first to let the organization know it. NO excuse!

Stillers#1
10-02-2006, 02:18 PM
A MISTAKE????? :jawdrop: Deliberately, wantonly and willfully stomping on a defenseless opponent's head with a cleated shoe is a mistake? :dang: :dang: :dang: This behavior is expected to happen in da hood, not on a freakin' football field!!! So - what you're inferring is - just because it happened on a football field and not "a street corner" - it should be considered "acceptable"? Where the hell is your heart stillers?

As far as me being without sin, I am not. But I can honestly say with a clear mind and heart that I've never - nor would I ever - deliberately injure another human being because I couldn't keep my emotions in check.

Jail the vicious bastard and toss him out of the NFL. Maybe he and Mike Tyson can beat and bite each other to death.

SO Hometown, you have never done ANYTHING, that you wish you could have taken back? Probably not, as it seems you may be perfect. I never once said it was acceptable, if you would read my post, instead of picking one or two words out, then you would know I said I DO NOT CONDONE WHAT HE DID....there, you can't miss it that time. You all are the same people, who cheered Lambert when he would kick a player while he was down, or deliver a late hit on purpose, trying to injure someone. And before you go off on a rant, I am not comparing Haynesworth to Lambert. I am just saying, one of our most revered players of all time, was a dirty player, and did shit like this all the time. Hell, in his tribute video on YouTube, you see a clip of him kicking a Browns player while he is on the ground. But thats ok, b/c he was Jack Lambert.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-02-2006, 02:27 PM
SO Hometown, you have never done ANYTHING, that you wish you could have taken back? Probably not, as it seems you may be perfect. I never once said it was acceptable, if you would read my post, instead of picking one or two words out, then you would know I said I DO NOT CONDONE WHAT HE DID....there, you can't miss it that time. You all are the same people, who cheered Lambert when he would kick a player while he was down, or deliver a late hit on purpose, trying to injure someone. And before you go off on a rant, I am not comparing Haynesworth to Lambert. I am just saying, one of our most revered players of all time, was a dirty player, and did shit like this all the time. Hell, in his tribute video on YouTube, you see a clip of him kicking a Browns player while he is on the ground. But thats ok, b/c he was Jack Lambert.

YOu apparantly missed my point soooo...

...as a player you EXPECT tackles,pushing and even some punches thrown...They have always been part of the game and YOU HAVE PROTECTIVE GEAR ON!!!!......but purposely going for a persons HEAD with your cleats...when you KNOW that his helmet is off is a BIG DEAL...

and yes ..look back at your posts...your minimizing what this ass-clown did definatly CONDONES such action!!!

Stillers#1
10-02-2006, 02:33 PM
and yes ..look back at your posts...your minimizing what this ass-clown did definatly CONDONES such action!!!


Minimizing something does not mean you condone it. I, personally don't think I would kick another guy in the face, in the middle of a football game. I can't say if I would or not, I have never been put into the position where that decision would come up. None of us know what was said/done to Haynesworth before this happened. I can think of several things, that someone could do/say to me that woud warrant a kick in the face. You all have rushed your judgement, and your holier than thou attitude makes me sick.

HometownGal
10-02-2006, 02:44 PM
SO Hometown, you have never done ANYTHING, that you wish you could have taken back? Probably not, as it seems you may be perfect. I never once said it was acceptable, if you would read my post, instead of picking one or two words out, then you would know I said I DO NOT CONDONE WHAT HE DID....there, you can't miss it that time. You all are the same people, who cheered Lambert when he would kick a player while he was down, or deliver a late hit on purpose, trying to injure someone. And before you go off on a rant, I am not comparing Haynesworth to Lambert. I am just saying, one of our most revered players of all time, was a dirty player, and did shit like this all the time. Hell, in his tribute video on YouTube, you see a clip of him kicking a Browns player while he is on the ground. But thats ok, b/c he was Jack Lambert.

Obviously YOU don't read. Here - I'll quote my prior post that you yourself quoted in your last reply...

As far as me being without sin, I am not. But I can honestly say with a clear mind and heart that I've never - nor would I ever - deliberately injure another human being because I couldn't keep my emotions in check.

floodcitygirl
10-02-2006, 02:48 PM
Minimizing something does not mean you condone it. I, personally don't think I would kick another guy in the face, in the middle of a football game. I can't say if I would or not, I have never been put into the position where that decision would come up. None of us know what was said/done to Haynesworth before this happened. I can think of several things, that someone could do/say to me that woud warrant a kick in the face. You all have rushed your judgement, and your holier than thou attitude makes me sick.You don't have to be self-righteous or holy to know that this was a criminal act and completely unjustifiable. His actions make me sick not opinions on a message board.

hardwork
10-02-2006, 02:48 PM
Look, this player should be gone for the rest of the season. He walked over to a helmetless player, who was on the ground, who he outweighed by about 100 pounds, and cleated the guy in the head. That isn't a mistake. That's a criminal act.

tony hipchest
10-02-2006, 02:50 PM
Minimizing something does not mean you condone it. I, personally don't think I would kick another guy in the face, in the middle of a football game. I can't say if I would or not, I have never been put into the position where that decision would come up. None of us know what was said/done to Haynesworth before this happened. I can think of several things, that someone could do/say to me that woud warrant a kick in the face. You all have rushed your judgement, and your holier than thou attitude makes me sick.so recognizing that a 300 lb person stomping on someones forhead and eye with a pair of cleats makes one "holier than thou". or does it mean they have a conscience and recognize something that has no part in the game.

i guess if a baseball player bashes someone elses skull with a bat on the diamond, we should just wait to see what was said, before we rush to judgement.

Mosca
10-02-2006, 02:51 PM
SO Hometown, you have never done ANYTHING, that you wish you could have taken back? Probably not, as it seems you may be perfect. I never once said it was acceptable, if you would read my post, instead of picking one or two words out, then you would know I said I DO NOT CONDONE WHAT HE DID....there, you can't miss it that time. You all are the same people, who cheered Lambert when he would kick a player while he was down, or deliver a late hit on purpose, trying to injure someone. And before you go off on a rant, I am not comparing Haynesworth to Lambert. I am just saying, one of our most revered players of all time, was a dirty player, and did shit like this all the time. Hell, in his tribute video on YouTube, you see a clip of him kicking a Browns player while he is on the ground. But thats ok, b/c he was Jack Lambert.


When did this become about HometownGal?

And how do you know these things about us? I didn't see you watching any games with me.

As your argument drifts it becomes less effective; you are now attacking our attitudes as hypocritical, when the issue at hand is Haynesworth's actions. But you don't know us. You can only bring that with you, it's nothing you can get from things said here.

Sure, it was a "mistake", by at least one definition of a mistake. That kid who broke into the lawyer's house and killed the man's wife; he made a "mistake" too, by at least another definition of the word.

We need to be able to trust athletes to know where the line is. This was way over that line; spiked foot to bare head. Sure it's an emotional game; but it needs to be controlled, and that's why I found Polamalu's punch disgusting. But to put it in perspective, Polamalu didn't pick up a 2" long piece of steel and stick it between his fingers before he punched anyone.

Tom

Stillers#1
10-02-2006, 03:04 PM
My point, Mosca, is that the man said he was sorry, he admitted he made a terrible mistake, and everyone here is ready to throw him into the looney bin with Mike Tyson. He doesn't deserve to be criminally punished. Yes he deserves to be suspended, I am pretty sure I stated that already. This is the first time he has ever done anything like this. If people like Chris Henry are given 2 even 3 chances, then Haynesworth deserves a chance to prove all of you wrong. This was just him getting to emotional, it happens, obvioulsy Haynesworth knows where the line is now.

And to put it in perspective, Polamalu's punch was just as bad as this. Even if the the other guy was wearing a helmet, the intent to injure was still there.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-02-2006, 03:04 PM
Minimizing something does not mean you condone it. I, personally don't think I would kick another guy in the face, in the middle of a football game. I can't say if I would or not, I have never been put into the position where that decision would come up. None of us know what was said/done to Haynesworth before this happened. I can think of several things, that someone could do/say to me that woud warrant a kick in the face. You all have rushed your judgement, and your holier than thou attitude makes me sick.


Read the whole post!!!! You are purposefully ignoring the valid arguments that people are presenting to you...if you truly believe that someone can "say" something to you that warrants them getting kicked in the face...then beyond a doubt , you have anger management problems.....and noone is saying that they are holier than you..in fact...YOU are the only one to bring biblical morality into the equation with your misplaced quote of the Bible.

I am saddened that a HUMAN can say that there are times that warrant kicking another person in the face...Let me tell you when that is appropriate

1) Someone is trying to KILL or serious HARM someone and you are interferring in the interest of the agrieved party
2) Someone is trying to deprive you of something that would harm you or your family
3) War

THATS IT!!!!

Stillers#1
10-02-2006, 03:12 PM
Well LLT I am glad to see that you straightened this out for me. I guess you told me, I am less than human, b/c I think things go on or are said in a football, that could possibly warrant a kick to the face. I must be a disgusting person, thanks for putting me in my place.

HometownGal
10-02-2006, 03:15 PM
The legal definition of assault:

as?sault (-s?lt) KEY

NOUN:

A violent physical or verbal attack.

A military attack, such as one launched against a fortified area or place.
The concluding stage of an attack in which close combat occurs with the enemy.

Law

An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another.
The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another.

Case closed. Haynesworth belongs in the pokey, not on a football field.

Stillers#1
10-02-2006, 03:16 PM
And once again, I AM NOT SYAING HE DOESN"T DESERVED TO BE PUNISHED.....WHAT HE DID WAS WRONG, BUT BEFORE ANYONE CAN PASS JUDGEMENT ON WHAT KIND OF PERSON HE IS, LET THE FACTS COME OUT!!! As far as we know this guy could donate all kinds of time/money to charities, and be a great family guy, I don't know. But this one thing, that he did wrong, makes him a MONSTER?!! He did a bad thing, and I am sure he feels bad about it, not b/c he will be punished, but b/c it was a dick thing to do.

I am done with this.

hardwork
10-02-2006, 03:17 PM
And to put it in perspective, Polamalu's punch was just as bad as this. Even if the the other guy was wearing a helmet, the intent to injure was still there.

So giving a guy a black eye, or breaking his nose, is like cleating someone in the face? Is droping a 250 pounder the same as droping a nuke? Come on, use your head.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-02-2006, 03:23 PM
My point, Mosca, is that the man said he was sorry, he admitted he made a terrible mistake, and everyone here is ready to throw him into the looney bin with Mike Tyson. He doesn't deserve to be criminally punished. Yes he deserves to be suspended, I am pretty sure I stated that already. This is the first time he has ever done anything like this. If people like Chris Henry are given 2 even 3 chances, then Haynesworth deserves a chance to prove all of you wrong. This was just him getting to emotional, it happens, obvioulsy Haynesworth knows where the line is now.

And to put it in perspective, Polamalu's punch was just as bad as this. Even if the the other guy was wearing a helmet, the intent to injure was still there.

Get your facts straight..he was reprimanded by the Titans organization for kicking a player in the chest during preseason!!!

HometownGal
10-02-2006, 03:27 PM
And once again, I AM NOT SYAING HE DOESN"T DESERVED TO BE PUNISHED.....WHAT HE DID WAS WRONG, BUT BEFORE ANYONE CAN PASS JUDGEMENT ON WHAT KIND OF PERSON HE IS, LET THE FACTS COME OUT!!! As far as we know this guy could donate all kinds of time/money to charities, and be a great family guy, I don't know. But this one thing, that he did wrong, makes him a MONSTER?!! He did a bad thing, and I am sure he feels bad about it, not b/c he will be punished, but b/c it was a dick thing to do.

I am done with this.

The facts ARE out, Stillers, but just because this MONSTER now feels remorse doesn't earn him a free pass. He sure as hell wasn't feeling any remorse as his cleated shoe was being dug into Gurode's face. I've worked in law for well over 20 years - the perp is always "sorry" after the fact - I've seen it a hundred times at least.

I don't give a rat's ass what charities this douchebag contributes to or how good of "family man" he appears to be. There is absolutely NO excuse for what Haynesworth did and he needs to pay for his criminal act and be tossed off the Titans roster and out of the league. Go out and kick a defenseless person in the face and see what the consequences are. You'd have cuffs slapped on you and be thrown in the paddy wagon headed straight for the pokey so fast your head would spin.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-02-2006, 03:29 PM
Well LLT I am glad to see that you straightened this out for me. I guess you told me, I am less than human, b/c I think things go on or are said in a football, that could possibly warrant a kick to the face. I must be a disgusting person, thanks for putting me in my place.

Dude..I have NO idea where your place is. I cant even follow your line of logic...You go from our pointing out the obvious about this thug to an extreme of calling him a monster....you say that becuase I state that you are wrong to say that a person deserves to be kicked in the face..that I called you inhuman....Your debate is lacking facts and at this point a little class..so I will refraim from trying to make you see what 99% of the world would see as a logical conclusion:dang:

Stillers#1
10-02-2006, 04:10 PM
Warrant issued for arrest of DT Haynesworth
May 13, 2006 at 3:26 pm | In Tennessee Titans, Albert Haynesworth |
Looking for the video? here ya go

NFL.com wire reports CARTHAGE, Tenn. (May 12, 2006) — Tennessee Titans defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth was charged with reckless endangerment after being accused of trying to run a car off the highway.

The Smith County sheriff said May 12 a warrant for the player’s arrest was issued after James J. Bond filed a police report.

Bond told police that Haynesworth on May 7 swerved, sped and attempted to pass a car driven by Bond’s mother-in-law on the shoulder of Interstate 40, about 45 miles east of Nashville, Smith County Sheriff Johnny Bane said.

“The affidavants feared for their lives and felt they were in danger, as well as other drivers around them,” he said.

No officer was present at the scene, and the warrant was issued after authorities investigated Bond’s report, Bane said.

He said police have spoken with Haynesworth’s attorney, who told them the player will surrender on the charges soon. He will face $1,000 bail.

Neither the Tennessee Titans nor Haynesworth’s agent, Chad Speck, immediately returned calls from The Associated Press.

Well this guy has a past, so I am in fact wrong, about him.

24seven
10-02-2006, 04:24 PM
If T.O. can be not allowed to play over his verbal bs.. then this is a no brainer.. git r done NFL!!!!!!!!!!

HometownGal
10-02-2006, 04:33 PM
Well this guy has a past, so I am in fact wrong, about him.

Thanks for being a stand-up guy here, Stillers. :thumbsup: :smile:

augustashark
10-02-2006, 04:43 PM
When did this become about HometownGal?

And how do you know these things about us? I didn't see you watching any games with me.

As your argument drifts it becomes less effective; you are now attacking our attitudes as hypocritical, when the issue at hand is Haynesworth's actions. But you don't know us. You can only bring that with you, it's nothing you can get from things said here.

Sure, it was a "mistake", by at least one definition of a mistake. That kid who broke into the lawyer's house and killed the man's wife; he made a "mistake" too, by at least another definition of the word.

We need to be able to trust athletes to know where the line is. This was way over that line; spiked foot to bare head. Sure it's an emotional game; but it needs to be controlled, and that's why I found Polamalu's punch disgusting. But to put it in perspective, Polamalu didn't pick up a 2" long piece of steel and stick it between his fingers before he punched anyone.

Tom


Would you like me to find the stats on how many people have been killed or paralyzed from one punch to the head. You need to think about what your saying before you speak.

augustashark
10-02-2006, 04:58 PM
WHAT!!! There is no way that ANYONE should defend ANY player who blatantly tries to injure another player....Regardles of the team....But a portion of common sense needs to be applied here...as a player you EXPECT tackles,pushing and even some punches thrown...They have always been part of the game and YOU HAVE PROTECTIVE GEAR ON!!!!......but purposely going for a persons HEAD with your cleats...when you KNOW that his helmet is off is a BIG DEAL...How can you NOT SEE THAT:dang:

Let me put it to you this way....I expect to be punched in a boxing match...I have a right to REASONBLY ASSUME that my opponant wont BITE MY EAR OFF when we are locked up!!!!

Come on dude, you said in a earlier post that you played high school and college ball. If you did indeed play then you know that there are things that go on that the normal public would not agree with. I've had my balls squeezed, eyes gouged, ankle twisted, punched in the ribs and scratched till bleeding. I don't condone what this guy did, but don't act like these things I mentioned don't happen.

Mosca
10-02-2006, 05:08 PM
Would you like me to find the stats on how many people have been killed or paralyzed from one punch to the head. You need to think about what your saying before you speak.

No, I actually know someone who died, and someone who threw that punch (and spent 7 years in the penitentiary). I was referring to athletes wearing helmets in this instance. Sorry if it seemed out of context, I meant during the course of a football game. As disgusting as a cheap shot punch is (as I said in my post), intentionally using a cleat is an escalation over that; it's like bringing in a foreign object.


Tom

Livinginthe past
10-02-2006, 05:30 PM
Haynesworth has been banned for 5 games - 'unprecedented' says the accompanying blurb but I still think he got off lightly.

Wouldnt be too surprised to see some retribution from fellow pro's when he returns - also wouldn't surprise me to see his teammates look the other way while it happens.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2610577

NM

floodcitygirl
10-02-2006, 05:37 PM
Haynesworth has been banned for 5 games - 'unprecedented' says the accompanying blurb but I still think he got off lightly.

Wouldnt be too surprised to see some retribution from fellow pro's when he returns - also wouldn't surprise me to see his teammates look the other way while it happens.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2610577

NMThe coach thinks that the penalty is adequate???!!! It's an embarrassement to the NFL if that guy ever plays again. 5 games???

hardwork
10-02-2006, 08:14 PM
Warrant issued for arrest of DT Haynesworth
May 13, 2006 at 3:26 pm | In Tennessee Titans, Albert Haynesworth |
Looking for the video? here ya go

NFL.com wire reports CARTHAGE, Tenn. (May 12, 2006) ? Tennessee Titans defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth was charged with reckless endangerment after being accused of trying to run a car off the highway.

The Smith County sheriff said May 12 a warrant for the player?s arrest was issued after James J. Bond filed a police report.

Bond told police that Haynesworth on May 7 swerved, sped and attempted to pass a car driven by Bond?s mother-in-law on the shoulder of Interstate 40, about 45 miles east of Nashville, Smith County Sheriff Johnny Bane said.

?The affidavants feared for their lives and felt they were in danger, as well as other drivers around them,? he said.

No officer was present at the scene, and the warrant was issued after authorities investigated Bond?s report, Bane said.

He said police have spoken with Haynesworth?s attorney, who told them the player will surrender on the charges soon. He will face $1,000 bail.

Neither the Tennessee Titans nor Haynesworth?s agent, Chad Speck, immediately returned calls from The Associated Press.

Well this guy has a past, so I am in fact wrong, about him.



Come on dude, you said in a earlier post that you drove in high school and college. If you did indeed drive then you know that there are things that go on that the normal driving public would not agree with. I've had my muffler squeezed, headlights smashed, tire flattened, drivers side door crunched, and been keyed. I don't condone trying to drive someone off the road, but don't act like it don't happen.

HW The Shark

Livinginthe past
10-02-2006, 08:23 PM
Come on dude, you said in a earlier post that you drove in high school and college. If you did indeed drive then you know that there are things that go on that the normal driving public would not agree with. I've had my muffler squeezed, headlights smashed, tire flattened, drivers side door crunched, and been keyed. I don't condone trying to drive someone off the road, but don't act like it don't happen.

HW The Shark

Ha ha.

Now that made me laugh - nice one HW.

NM

augustashark
10-02-2006, 10:46 PM
Come on dude, you said in a earlier post that you drove in high school and college. If you did indeed drive then you know that there are things that go on that the normal driving public would not agree with. I've had my muffler squeezed, headlights smashed, tire flattened, drivers side door crunched, and been keyed. I don't condone trying to drive someone off the road, but don't act like it don't happen.

HW The Shark


You know what, you are one stupid son of a bitch! You come in here and all you do is try to get a rise out of people, well it finally worked here. You never post about anything with substance! your F u c k i n g a s s should have been banned long ago. Everything is a joke to you, for that reason I've always thought you were full of s h i t about everything you've ever posted.

Stillers#1
10-02-2006, 11:28 PM
The coach thinks that the penalty is adequate???!!! It's an embarrassement to the NFL if that guy ever plays again. 5 games???

The punishment fits the crime, whhat kind of fine woud this guy be levied if this would dhave happened on the street, 1st offense. I would be willing to bet he loses more money from the suspension than he would from the courts. And as much as you may hate this, thats what it is all about to these guys.

IMHO after watching the post game video, I really do believe he is seriously sorry for what he did. If something like this happens again with him, then I say throw him to the wolves.

Preacher
10-03-2006, 12:01 AM
After looking through these posts... There are two seperate issues here.

1. Should on-field activities find thier way into the legal system? NO! It is a football incident, and belongs IN FOOTBALL, not in the court system.

Now...

2. WHat should be done. Suspend him for the rest of this year, and consider this the final warning. One more incident, and he is gone for life.

I am just ALWAYS afraid of onfield incidents (not including fans) going into the court system.

hardwork
10-03-2006, 12:44 AM
You know what, you are one stupid son of a bitch! You come in here and all you do is try to get a rise out of people, well it finally worked here. You never post about anything with substance! your F u c k i n g a s s should have been banned long ago. Everything is a joke to you, for that reason I've always thought you were full of s h i t about everything you've ever posted.


Charming fellow that Mr. Shark.

tony hipchest
10-03-2006, 12:46 AM
Come on dude, you said in a earlier post that you drove in high school and college. If you did indeed drive then you know that there are things that go on that the normal driving public would not agree with. I've had my muffler squeezed, headlights smashed, tire flattened, drivers side door crunched, and been keyed. I don't condone trying to drive someone off the road, but don't act like it don't happen.

HW The Sharkim impressed. an HW post with thought, personality, and wit. :thumbsup:

X-Terminator
10-03-2006, 12:55 AM
The coach thinks that the penalty is adequate???!!! It's an embarrassement to the NFL if that guy ever plays again. 5 games???

Honestly, I'm surprised that the suspension was that long, given how athletes get away with everything these days. I was fully expecting him to get a fine and maybe a 1-game suspension with pay - in essence a slap on the wrist. If the league really wanted to make a statement, though, they should have suspended him for the rest of the season.

augustashark
10-03-2006, 01:02 AM
Charming fellow that Mr. Shark.

Hey, better to be charming then the taint that you are. Mr. Hardwork :smile:

augustashark
10-03-2006, 01:03 AM
im impressed. an HW post with thought, personality, and wit. :thumbsup:

1 out of 1076, not bad I guess. Not a bad winning pct.

hardwork
10-03-2006, 01:15 AM
Hey, better to be charming then the taint that you are. Mr. Hardwork :smile:

Oh, my, my.

augustashark
10-03-2006, 01:41 AM
Oh, my, my.

Now its 1 out of 1077, damn man your lowering your pct.!

Btw, what the hell is Oh, my, my......5th grade passed you right by.

hardwork
10-03-2006, 02:36 AM
Shark, got your cleats on?

floodcitygirl
10-03-2006, 08:58 AM
After looking through these posts... There are two seperate issues here.

1. Should on-field activities find thier way into the legal system? NO! It is a football incident, and belongs IN FOOTBALL, not in the court system.

Now...

2. WHat should be done. Suspend him for the rest of this year, and consider this the final warning. One more incident, and he is gone for life.

I am just ALWAYS afraid of onfield incidents (not including fans) going into the court system.Normally I would agree about on field activities. But I think this is a different case. That play was clearly over by anyone's standards and that attack was premeditated and brutal. I think he deserves to be out. I'd be ashamed if he played for our Steelers. And if I've read correctly, he has been in trouble a couple of times already. As for the legal system, it sure looked like assult to me, but I don't get to make that call.

Prosdo
10-03-2006, 10:33 AM
That guy is a moron. Why do something like that.

ch33ky_chikk
10-03-2006, 11:22 AM
Haynesworth has a long history of violent rage and lack of impulse control. He has repeatedly gotten away with his outrageous behavior on and off the field.

Most 5-year old boys exercise better self control.

I have seen brats show more regard for a bug than Haynesworth did for Andre Gurode on Sunday during the cleating.

I am disappointed that Angry Albert did not get a lifetime ban from the NFL.

I sincerely hope that Gurode successfully sues him.

Stillers#1
10-03-2006, 11:29 AM
Haynesworth has a long history of violent rage and lack of impulse control. He has repeatedly gotten away with his outrageous behavior on and off the field.

Most 5-year old boys exercise better self control.

I have seen brats show more regard for a bug than Haynesworth did for Andre Gurode on Sunday during the cleating.

I am disappointed that Angry Albert did not get a lifetime ban from the NFL.

I sincerely hope that Gurode successfully sues him.


Got any facts to back up the LONG history of violence? B/c before yesterday I had never heard of him doing anything like this.

ch33ky_chikk
10-03-2006, 12:10 PM
Got any facts to back up the LONG history of violence? B/c before yesterday I had never heard of him doing anything like this.

Yes I do.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/15663123.htm

A timeline of events involving Titans' DT Albert Haynesworth

Associated Press

Oct. 2, 2006 - The NFL suspends Tennessee Titans defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth five games for flagrant unnecessary roughness. He was ejected from a game against the Dallas Cowboys after he stomped on Dallas center Andre Gurode's face.
May 12, 2006 - Haynesworth charged with reckless endangerment after another motorist complained he tried to run a car off the interstate. The charges were later dismissed after prosecutors declined to press the case. Haynesworth claimed he was a victim of road rage and was trying to get out of the way.
Nov. 20, 2005 - Haynesworth and Jacksonville safety Deon Grant got into a confrontation after the game. Several players and coaches had to separate them. Grant and Haynesworth played at the University of Tennessee for one year together in 1999. Haynesworth said they were not close at UT. Grant said it was "a little jawing" but didn't go into details.
Dec. 21, 2005 - Haynesworth named an alternate for the AFC's Pro Bowl roster.
May 6, 2004 - Haynesworth misses two days of voluntary offseason weight training because he said he confused the dates he was supposed to be there. He was the only player to not take part in the team's voluntary offseason conditioning program.
Dec 28, 2003 - Haynesworth was deactivated for a game after he became upset during practice and threw a punch at offensive lineman Matt Martin before arguing with coach Jeff Fisher who ordered him off the field.
August 2003 - Haynesworth was stopped during a drill in training camp by center Justin Hartwig, then kicked Hartwig in the chest.
July 29, 2002 - Haynesworth and Titans agreed to a five-year contract, ending a holdout after five days of training camp.
June 5, 2002 - Haynesworth fought two offensive linemen after consecutive plays during a Titans' minicamp practice.
April 20, 2002 - Titans took Haynesworth as the 15th overall pick in the draft.
Jan. 8, 2002 - Haynesworth announced decision to leave college a year early for the NFL draft.
November 2000 - As a sophomore at the University of Tennessee, Haynesworth was suspended for the first half of a game against Kentucky after he got mad at an offensive lineman during a practice, left the field and returned with a long pole. Coach Phillip Fulmer stepped in before anyone was injured.


Here are some other news clips I found after a little research:

Haynesworth
Titans come out swinging in practice By Terry McCormick, tmccormick@nashvillecitypaper.com
August 16, 2005
The Tennessee Titans came out swinging in Monday?s practices ? literally.

Both the morning and evening practices were marred by two skirmishes, most notably an afternoon brawl between Albert Haynesworth and Justin Hartwig that spun off a side battle between Randy Starks and Todd Williams.

It was not the first time for Haynesworth and Hartwig to do battle, as they squared off two years ago with Haynesworth kicking Hartwig in the chest in that incident.

In Monday?s melee, after order was finally restored, Titans coach Jeff Fisher, who was nearly hit inadvertently during the Starks-Williams fisticuffs, ordered Haynesworth to leave the practice field and go to the locker room.


Jan. 5, 2004

DT Albert Haynesworth has not shed the reputation he had at the University of Tennessee for lacking maturity and a strong motor. On the Friday before the team?s Week 17 game, usually a light practice, Haynesworth exchanged heated words with backup OT Matt Martin before hitting him in the back of the head. Head coach Jeff Fisher screamed at Haynes?worth, and the verbal sparring continued in Fisher?s office after practice. Fisher placed Haynesworth on the inactive list for the Week 17 game vs. the Buccaneers but has not fined the second-year defensive tackle, who also had an incident with Martin in the preseason.

Mike Keith: Look To Hartwig
The View From The Voice January 16, 2004
The two words that Tennessee Titans? players should not forget this off-season:
Justin Hartwig.
For some specific Titans? players, that name should be even more important. Hartwig played in the last three games of 2002 as a special teamer. The coaches were up on Hartwig at the end of his rookie year, which is good. But unless you build on it your second year, you can still be out like Adam Haayer was.
Hartwig built on it. Working his tail off in the off-season, he got bigger, faster and stronger. The proof came in 2003 training camp when he was kicked in a practice field fight with Albert Haynesworth.
Haynesworth kicked Hartwig in frustration. The reason? Hartwig was totally handling Haynesworth that day, something that most wouldn?t have thought possible in 2002. Suddenly, Hartwig was big and strong enough to hold his against a talent like Haynesworth.
The Titans? brass smiled---not about the kicking or the fight. They smiled because a young player was developing before their eyes, a sixth round draft pick from the year before who could now help them. They had to get Hartwig into the lineup.
Center was the available spot. Even though he had never played it, Hartwig was game. Early in the season, he understandably struggled. As the year went on and his confidence and knowledge of the position grew, Hartwig began to flourish.




I am not convinced that the big lug will not lose it again if he is back on the field. I am afraid if there is a next time it is going to be even worse.





...

Prosdo
10-03-2006, 12:16 PM
Wow....

hardwork
10-03-2006, 12:25 PM
Some people can control themselves and some people are so weak they can't.

sumo
10-03-2006, 12:29 PM
This guy got a five game suspension -- in the NFL that's huge -- these guys only get paid during the season -- they don't even get paid during training camp -- so five games checks is just about 1/3 of his entire salary - on top of that, his career may for all intensive purposes be over given his other issues ...also, a precedent was set with the Romanowski incident a few years back - so you know that's coming down the pike too - the punishment and the stigma match what he did - justice is served -- everybody move on now and enjoy the next TO controversy

HometownGal
10-03-2006, 12:34 PM
After looking through these posts... There are two seperate issues here.

1. Should on-field activities find thier way into the legal system? NO! It is a football incident, and belongs IN FOOTBALL, not in the court system.

Now...

2. WHat should be done. Suspend him for the rest of this year, and consider this the final warning. One more incident, and he is gone for life.

I am just ALWAYS afraid of onfield incidents (not including fans) going into the court system.

In answer to your question #1 - YES - on-field "activities" should most definitely be held in the same esteem as an off the field or on the street incident. I would liken this latest on the field brutality and assault, though not quite as severe, to the Todd Bertuzzi/Steve Moore incident which left Moore with broken bones in his neck and a whole host of other injuries. Bertuzzi was criminally charged and plead guilty, receiving an 18 month probation, community service and was suspended from play in the NHL for over 17 months. Any intent to injure another person, no matter what the venue, should be treated as a crime and the perpetrator prosecuted. Quite possibly, punishing these athletes who allow their emotions to get out of control in a game forum, would send a very strong message not only to the sports world in general, but to children and young adults who look upon professional athletes as heroes and can be easily influenced.

Livinginthe past
10-03-2006, 12:34 PM
Yes I do.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/15663123.htm

A timeline of events involving Titans' DT Albert Haynesworth

Associated Press

Oct. 2, 2006 - The NFL suspends Tennessee Titans defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth five games for flagrant unnecessary roughness. He was ejected from a game against the Dallas Cowboys after he stomped on Dallas center Andre Gurode's face.
May 12, 2006 - Haynesworth charged with reckless endangerment after another motorist complained he tried to run a car off the interstate. The charges were later dismissed after prosecutors declined to press the case. Haynesworth claimed he was a victim of road rage and was trying to get out of the way.
Nov. 20, 2005 - Haynesworth and Jacksonville safety Deon Grant got into a confrontation after the game. Several players and coaches had to separate them. Grant and Haynesworth played at the University of Tennessee for one year together in 1999. Haynesworth said they were not close at UT. Grant said it was "a little jawing" but didn't go into details.
..



....etc etc

That is the best researched post I have seen in a long while.

Props to you Ch33ky Chikk!! :cheers:

NM

floodcitygirl
10-03-2006, 12:41 PM
That is the best researched post I have seen in a long while.

Props to you Ch33ky Chikk!! :cheers:

NMVery well done. Thanks for taking the time! :thumbsup:

sumo
10-03-2006, 12:42 PM
That is the best researched post I have seen in a long while.

Props to you Ch33ky Chikk!! :cheers:

NM

I was about to post this exact mesaage -- ditto from me -- great research and response Ch33ky Chikk!

Stillers#1
10-03-2006, 12:44 PM
I was about to post this exact mesaage -- ditto from me -- great research and response Ch33ky Chikk!

Thanks for shedding even more light on this situation.

Stillers#1
10-03-2006, 12:53 PM
In answer to your question #1 - YES - on-field "activities" should most definitely be held in the same esteem as an off the field or on the street incident. I would liken this latest on the field brutality and assault, though not quite as severe, to the Todd Bertuzzi/Steve Moore incident which left Moore with broken bones in his neck and a whole host of other injuries. Bertuzzi was criminally charged and plead guilty, receiving an 18 month probation, community service and was suspended from play in the NHL for over 17 months. Any intent to injure another person, no matter what the venue, should be treated as a crime and the perpetrator prosecuted. Quite possibly, punishing these athletes who allow their emotions to get out of control in a game forum, would send a very strong message not only to the sports world in general, but to children and young adults who look upon professional athletes as heroes and can be easily influenced.

I can see where u are coming from, but there comes a point where you have to draw the line. I seriously do not think you can treat this the same as you would an "off-field" activity. This was not pre-meditated, it was done as a spur of the moment thing, which as I have stressed before, does not make it ok. The league did the right thing. His suspension is equal to that of a 55-65 game suspension in baseball.

If Gurode is successful in his lawsuit, then we might as well say goodby eto football as we know it. This opens up a whole new ballgame, so to speak. Before you know it, QB's will be suing for hits like Geathers hit on Trent Green (which he was obviously trying to injure Green on, ASSAULT?) . This should be taken care of in house, which the NFL did. If Gurode misses games and paychecks b/c of this, then fine sue Haynesworth for lost wages. The NFL did well on this IMO.

Mosca
10-03-2006, 01:09 PM
I would have said 8 games, but I think that's just parsing terms. It will be interesting to see if the Titans keep him, actually; they can go 4-12 with or without him, after all.


Tom

Livinginthe past
10-03-2006, 01:13 PM
I would have said 8 games, but I think that's just parsing terms. It will be interesting to see if the Titans keep him, actually; they can go 4-12 with or without him, after all.


Tom

4-12?

I'd say that was pretty optimistic - of their remaining games only 2 look like wins - both against the Texans.

NM

sumo
10-03-2006, 01:14 PM
I can see where u are coming from, but there comes a point where you have to draw the line. I seriously do not think you can treat this the same as you would an "off-field" activity. This was not pre-meditated, it was done as a spur of the moment thing, which as I have stressed before, does not make it ok. The league did the right thing. His suspension is equal to that of a 55-65 game suspension in baseball.

If Gurode is successful in his lawsuit, then we might as well say goodby eto football as we know it. This opens up a whole new ballgame, so to speak. Before you know it, QB's will be suing for hits like Geathers hit on Trent Green (which he was obviously trying to injure Green on, ASSAULT?) . This should be taken care of in house, which the NFL did. If Gurode misses games and paychecks b/c of this, then fine sue Haynesworth for lost wages. The NFL did well on this IMO.

We are discussing this same thing on the other "3 things" thread -- the precedent is already there (see Romanowski paying $468,000.00 settlement) -- all Gurode has to do is prove that it's effecting/effected his career and Haynesworth will be writing a hefty check...

augustashark
10-03-2006, 02:03 PM
In answer to your question #1 - YES - on-field "activities" should most definitely be held in the same esteem as an off the field or on the street incident. I would liken this latest on the field brutality and assault, though not quite as severe, to the Todd Bertuzzi/Steve Moore incident which left Moore with broken bones in his neck and a whole host of other injuries. Bertuzzi was criminally charged and plead guilty, receiving an 18 month probation, community service and was suspended from play in the NHL for over 17 months. Any intent to injure another person, no matter what the venue, should be treated as a crime and the perpetrator prosecuted. Quite possibly, punishing these athletes who allow their emotions to get out of control in a game forum, would send a very strong message not only to the sports world in general, but to children and young adults who look upon professional athletes as heroes and can be easily influenced.


Then why bring it up? These two incidents are completely different.

This guy lost 1/3 of his salary, done move on. How would losing 33% of your salary feel to you?

hardwork
10-03-2006, 02:11 PM
Then why bring it up? These two incidents are completely different.

This guy lost 1/3 of his salary, done move on.

Because she feels like bringing it up. You don't like it, you move on.

augustashark
10-03-2006, 02:23 PM
Because she feels like bringing it up. You don't like it, you move on.

another original post brought to you by hardwort.

hardwork
10-03-2006, 02:27 PM
another original post brought to you by hardwort.

More name calling, huh?

tony hipchest
10-03-2006, 02:29 PM
More name calling, huh?

now come on hardworm, im sure its just a typo. :chuckle:

augustashark
10-03-2006, 02:32 PM
now come on hardworm, im sure its just a typo. :chuckle:

Exactly!:cheers:

hardwork
10-03-2006, 02:43 PM
A couple of weak ass posters.

augustashark
10-03-2006, 02:45 PM
A couple of weak ass posters.

You're now at 1 out of 1082! You keep heading in the wrong direction. Come on try a little harder. If you were a baseball player you would be riding the pine. Not that you don't already.:dang:

hardwork
10-03-2006, 02:47 PM
Jesus you're weak.

ch33ky_chikk
10-03-2006, 03:19 PM
That is the best researched post I have seen in a long while.

Props to you Ch33ky Chikk!! :cheers:

NM

Thanks! :) I enjoy doing research. ;)

And, there was something in the bulging neck veins, the helmet throwing, yelling and finger pointing that Haynesworth displayed immediately afterwards that prompted me to see red flags all over the place.

Unfortunately, Haynesworth reminded me of a series of incidents that had an impact on my life a few years ago. I saw red flags concerning the behavior of a guy I was dating and against my better judgement I gave him several "second" chances.

I honestly believe that Haynesworth is incorrigible.

I fear for the life of the next person who trips his trigger.

sumo
10-03-2006, 03:30 PM
Where is the LOVE?!! -- This thread was discussing an interesting point ... let's get back to it -- Will it snowball if Haynesworth is sued? -- I don't think so -- I think the courts can distinguish -- especially if it's done flagrantly outside of live play - ie after the whistle has blown - causes harm to the player and effects his ability to make a living -- Chuck Knoll tried to do this with Jack Tatum back in the 70 after he knocked Lynn Swann out -- it was done after the whistle -- cheap shot from behind with a forearm - but he and Swannie let it go -- that's not the case anymore -- IMHO, Haynesworth will be sued successfully...

Livinginthe past
10-03-2006, 03:33 PM
Thanks! :) I enjoy doing research. ;)

And, there was something in the bulging neck veins, the helmet throwing, yelling and finger pointing that Haynesworth displayed immediately afterwards that prompted me to see red flags all over the place.

Unfortunately, Haynesworth reminded me of a series of incidents that had an impact on my life a few years ago. I saw red flags concerning the behavior of a guy I was dating and against my better judgement I gave him several "second" chances.

I honestly believe that Haynesworth is incorrigible.

I fear for the life of the next person who trips his trigger.

I agree - the second most disturbing element to the whole episode was the way he seemed totally oblivious to the fact he had done wrong.

He was fuming like he was the guy that had been wronged.

To me that has a psychopathic (in the truest sense) ring to it.

NM

sumo
10-03-2006, 03:34 PM
Thanks! :) I enjoy doing research. ;)

And, there was something in the bulging neck veins, the helmet throwing, yelling and finger pointing that Haynesworth displayed immediately afterwards that prompted me to see red flags all over the place.

Unfortunately, Haynesworth reminded me of a series of incidents that had an impact on my life a few years ago. I saw red flags concerning the behavior of a guy I was dating and against my better judgement I gave him several "second" chances.

I honestly believe that Haynesworth is incorrigible.

I fear for the life of the next person who trips his trigger.

This is a good point also -- people with anger management issues will react violently when you point out there bad behavior but then later ask for forgiveness and appear contrite - Or bring flowers the next day...

Livinginthe past
10-03-2006, 03:38 PM
Where is the LOVE?!! -- This thread was discussing an interesting point ... let's get back to it -- Will it snowball if Haynesworth is sued? -- I don't think so -- I think the courts can distinguish -- especially if it's done flagrantly outside of live play - ie after the whistle has blown - causes harm to the player and effects his ability to make a living -- Chuck Knoll tried to do this with Jack Tatum back in the 70 after he knocked Lynn Swann out -- it was done after the whistle -- cheap shot from behind with a forearm - but he and Swannie let it go -- that's not the case anymore -- IMHO, Haynesworth will be sued successfully...

I would concur with your view, life is very rarely black and white.

I dont agree with the logic of saying that Haynesworth getting sued or having criminal action taken against him will open the floodgates to multiple similar cases.

There are hits that take place during the 'live' part of a game - late hits and the like - that are a million miles away from this spiteful, unprovoked attack against an unprotected opponent.

Vicks stamp on an opponents leg was nasty enough, but the Dallas lineman could very well have lost an eye - that is something that goes beyond pro sports and its internal rule makers.

NM

hardwork
10-03-2006, 03:43 PM
Where is the LOVE?!! -- This thread was discussing an interesting point ... let's get back to it --

I agree. BS to those who say it's over, move on. It's an interesting an important issue. It is not that far removed from the public reaction to some of the things that have gone on in Iraq. There is pushing a POW around a little out of anger and frustration. Then there is raping, and beating people to death. Two very different things. This moron actions were way out of line, and should be seen that way.

augustashark
10-03-2006, 03:53 PM
I agree. BS to those who say it's over, move on. It's an interesting an important issue. It is not that far removed from the public reaction to some of the things that have gone on in Iraq. There is pushing a POW around a little out of anger and frustration. Then there is raping, and beating people to death. Two very different things. This moron actions were way out of line, and should be seen that way.

It's interesting how you equate raping and beating people to death to this situation. Says a little about you personally. Pathetic.

sumo
10-03-2006, 03:54 PM
I would concur with your view, life is very rarely black and white.

I dont agree with the logic of saying that Haynesworth getting sued or having criminal action taken against him will open the floodgates to multiple similar cases.

There are hits that take place during the 'live' part of a game - late hits and the like - that are a million miles away from this spiteful, unprovoked attack against an unprotected opponent.

Vicks stamp on an opponents leg was nasty enough, but the Dallas lineman could very well have lost an eye - that is something that goes beyond pro sports and its internal rule makers.

NM

The key will be whether or not you can prove you were injured -- all he will have to do is point to the huge scar underneath his eye to get something --I'm glad you brought up the Vick incident -- IF Vick's stomp would have broken the guy's leg and he was projected to be a 1st or 2nd round pick .... Vick would have had a major lawsuit on his hands -- it's proving that you are injured -- injured in a legal sense - not a football sense...

hardwork
10-03-2006, 04:00 PM
It's interesting how you equate raping and beating people to death to this situation. Says a little about you personally. Pathetic.

Obviously this discussion is way over your head. Follow someone else around, I find you to be a total bore.

augustashark
10-03-2006, 04:04 PM
Obviously this discussion is way over your head. Follow someone else around, I find you to be a total bore.

Just pointing out the flaws. Your earlier post was just way off and someone needed to let you know. Who better then me to do that!:thumbsup:

hardwork
10-03-2006, 04:08 PM
Just pointing out the flaws. Your earlier post was just way off and someone needed to let you know. Who better then me to do that!:thumbsup:

Ok, you asked for it. I'll play, but you won't like the results, trust me.

My "earlier post was just way off"? Just how was it off?

augustashark
10-03-2006, 04:30 PM
Ok, you asked for it. I'll play, but you won't like the results, trust me.

My "earlier post was just way off"? Just how was it off?

Because it came from you.:dang:

Mosca
10-03-2006, 04:43 PM
Sheesh, hardwork, augusta shark. Name calling? Threatening another forum member? I dunno, man. I know you guys are going at it, but have some restraint; controlled aggression, remember? It's just an internet forum.

hardwork
10-03-2006, 04:44 PM
Because it came from you.:dang:

Yeah, that's what I thought. You get weaker by the post. So, run along son, let the adults talk this over. Obviously you have nothing to offer.

augustashark
10-03-2006, 05:02 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought. You get weaker by the post. So, run along son, let the adults talk this over. Obviously you have nothing to offer.

No, I was being serious. Anything that comes from you is BS and falls into the "I don't know much" category. It's not that big of deal Jr. Just try harder. If you want I can tutor you. Class will start at 6pm, that way you can get your daily dose of Elmo's world. See ya at 6.

Stillers#1
10-03-2006, 05:17 PM
Wow, this WAS an intersting thread.

sumo
10-03-2006, 05:19 PM
Wow, this WAS an intersting thread.

I know -- I tried to interupt their argument a few hours ago - but it didn't work

augustashark
10-03-2006, 05:35 PM
I know -- I tried to interupt their argument a few hours ago - but it didn't work

You're right. This whole thread turned on one post. Everyone posting on this thread was being serious and trying to give their point of view about what happen. We have a member here that wants to turn every thread into a comic strip or ruin it by trying to pick fights with other members. Walking away is not an option. Sorry.

hardwork
10-03-2006, 05:35 PM
No, I was being serious. Anything that comes from you is BS and falls into the "I don't know much" category. It's not that big of deal Jr. Just try harder. If you want I can tutor you. Class will start at 6pm, that way you can get your daily dose of Elmo's world. See ya at 6.

Gee, and here I thought it was because you can't back up anything you say so instead you feign bravado. Of course, how could I think that? Your posts in this thread have been so meaningful.

I think you've embarrassed yourself to such a degree that I don't want to contribute to it any further. But do try and get some rest, and consider undertaking some self control therapy. I wouldn't want to read about you trying to drive someone off the road, sweetheart.

Say, is this what got the little girl all upset?

>>>Come on dude, you said in a earlier post that you drove in high school and college. If you did indeed drive then you know that there are things that go on that the normal driving public would not agree with. I've had my muffler squeezed, headlights smashed, tire flattened, drivers side door crunched, and been keyed. I don't condone trying to drive someone off the road, but don't act like it don't happen.<<<

hardwork
10-03-2006, 05:38 PM
We have a member here that wants to turn every thread into a comic strip or ruin it by trying to pick fights with other members.

Yeah, you pal.

augustashark
10-03-2006, 05:46 PM
See Sumo, just proves my point.

Prosdo
10-03-2006, 05:55 PM
Okay guys, seriously enough. Let's get back on topic here and stop the arguing. Now back to the topic. Haynesworth is stupid for doing this. I wish he would have been suspended longer. Reminds me of the younger Vick (who for some reason I can't think of his name) stepping on the Louisville's players leg. Anyone remember that?

hardwork
10-03-2006, 05:57 PM
agusta: "my point"

Now there's an oxymoron.

HometownGal
10-03-2006, 06:02 PM
Then why bring it up? These two incidents are completely different.

This guy lost 1/3 of his salary, done move on. How would losing 33% of your salary feel to you?

FYI augusta - I was responding to a post asking the questions on which I based my reply......that's why.

NO, NO, NOOOOO - these incidents are NOT completely different other than one happened on a football field and the other happened in a hockey rink. Assault is a crime whether it is premeditated or a "spur of the moment" emotional outburst - check the Crimes Code in your state if you need verification.

I cannot answer your last sentence logically, as I would NEVER, under any circumstances, allow my emotions to cause me to injure another human being. It's called self control. If I ever became so angry with someone as to want to cause them harm, I would seek counseling immediately instead of taking my aggression out on another human being, much less a defenseless one.

Livinginthe past
10-03-2006, 06:04 PM
Okay guys, seriously enough. Let's get back on topic here and stop the arguing. Now back to the topic. Haynesworth is stupid for doing this. I wish he would have been suspended longer. Reminds me of the younger Vick (who for some reason I can't think of his name) stepping on the Louisville's players leg. Anyone remember that?

Marcus Vick was the QB in question - he is on the Miami roster and apparently they quite like what he has shown in the pre-season.

It was also a horrible, spiteful action - im not daying these people can't reform but they shouldnt be rewarded for this type of behaviour.

Look on the bright side - 5 games may be enough to make the next player think twice before commiting such a cowardly, vicious act.

NM

ch33ky_chikk
10-03-2006, 06:05 PM
I agree - the second most disturbing element to the whole episode was the way he seemed totally oblivious to the fact he had done wrong.

He was fuming like he was the guy that had been wronged.

To me that has a psychopathic (in the truest sense) ring to it.

NM

That is another thing that really sent up a red flag for me with Haynesworth.

The guy that I was dating several years ago did not think he had really done anything wrong either. He also thought that saying he was sorry was all it should take to get him off scott free.

When I was offered a great job in another state the guy thought that I should just unpack my car and accept his marriage proposal the night before I was scheduled to leave. When I declined his offer he smashed the windows out of my car while I was sitting in it. (I was uinable to drive away because a few minutes earlier he had thrown my car keys into some tall weeds).

His attorney tried to convince the judge that it was all just an "accident" and that the guy really did love me.

The judge decided in my favor when I said:

"No one will ever convince me that it was an accident. If it was an accident there would have been only one broken window on my car and there would not be three dents in my steering wheel. A guy yelling at the top of his lungs, 'I LOVE YOU! I LOVE YOU! I CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT YOU!' as he smashes the windows out of my car is no way for him to get me to change my mind and say yes to his marriage proposal. I never want to see or talk to the guy ever again.

I am sorry if the guy thinks he cannot live without me.

If my pistol had been in my glove box instead of locked in the trunk of my car at the time, he might not have to learn how to live without me because I would have shot him. But since he is still alive, I think he should be required to have at least 6 months of mandatory counselling so he can try to learn to live without me."

...

I guess what I am saying is that some guys have never had to face any serious consequences for their outbursts of rage when they are frustrated until one day when someone finally has the balls to hold them accountable for their out of control impulses.

Sometimes it takes being dragged into court in handcuffs to make an impression.

I admit Haynesworth losing 33% of his income this year is a bite.

I think Angry Albert should be required to attend anger management classes

I am curious to see what happens next.

Prosdo
10-03-2006, 06:08 PM
Marcus Vick was the QB in question - he is on the Miami roster and apparently they quite like what he has shown in the pre-season.

It was also a horrible, spiteful action - im not daying these people can't reform but they shouldnt be rewarded for this type of behaviour.

Look on the bright side - 5 games may be enough to make the next player think twice before commiting such a cowardly, vicious act.

NM

Thank you. Why I couldn't think of his name I have no clue. Yeah that was just pathetic. He just walked right on his leg and claimed he didn't mean to. Pfft

Stillers#1
10-03-2006, 06:25 PM
Thank you. Why I couldn't think of his name I have no clue. Yeah that was just pathetic. He just walked right on his leg and claimed he didn't mean to. Pfft

Actually, I am pretty sure he claimed he didn't do it, when he was first confronted with questions about it.

To HTG...The Bertruzzi incident and this are completely different. Bertruzzi actually skated around for a while thinking about what he was going to do. Haynesworth on the other hand, got owned on the play, saw the guy who owned him with his helmet off ( I have heard rumors that Haynesworth actually ripped the Dallas G helmet off, but haven't seen it on tape) and he kicked him in the face. These two incidents, in court, would probably have two different penalties. Bertruzzi received 18 months probation or somethin ( I think I saw someone post this earlier), and the whole Haynesworth thing is a little less severe, IMHO. Regardless of what happens, Haynesworth will not see any jail time over this, even if it does go to court, which it shouldn't. Once again, since people here have questioned my character, I want to stress, I DO NOT CONDONE THIS AT ALL, but I do believe Haynesworth should not go to jail, maybe some league mandated anger-management therapy would do him some good. He does have 5 weeks off after all. I do think that would be a good idea, or maybe the Titans could make him go, and make him pay for it.

Livinginthe past
10-03-2006, 06:25 PM
That is another thing that really sent up a red flag for me with Haynesworth.

The guy that I was dating several years ago did not think he had really done anything wrong either. He also thought that saying he was sorry was all it should take to get him off scott free.

When I was offered a great job in another state the guy thought that I should just unpack my car and accept his marriage proposal the night before I was scheduled to leave. When I declined his offer he smashed the windows out of my car while I was sitting in it. (I was uinable to drive away because a few minutes earlier he had thrown my car keys into some tall weeds).

His attorney tried to convince the judge that it was all just an "accident" and that the guy really did love me.

The judge decided in my favor when I said:

"No one will ever convince me that it was an accident. If it was an accident there would have been only one broken window on my car and there would not be three dents in my steering wheel. A guy yelling at the top of his lungs, 'I LOVE YOU! I LOVE YOU! I CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT YOU!' as he smashes the windows out of my car is no way for him to get me to change my mind and say yes to his marriage proposal. I never want to see or talk to the guy ever again.

I am sorry if the guy thinks he cannot live without me.

If my pistol had been in my glove box instead of locked in the trunk of my car at the time, he might not have to learn how to live without me because I would have shot him. But since he is still alive, I think he should be required to have at least 6 months of mandatory counselling so he can try to learn to live without me."

...

I guess what I am saying is that some guys have never had to face any serious consequences for their outbursts of rage when they are frustrated until one day when someone finally has the balls to hold them accountable for their out of control impulses.

Sometimes it takes being dragged into court in handcuffs to make an impression.

I admit Haynesworth losing 33% of his income this year is a bite.

I think Angry Albert should be required to attend anger management classes

I am curious to see what happens next.

Well thats a truly scary episode in your life - you had the sense to get yourself out of and move on.

The next unfortunate girl that ends up with that nutcase will no doubt end up being the life-crutch for him again.

As for Albert, I agree that some sort of anger management action needs to be addressed - as you say, its only a matter of time before he goes too far and all the apologies in the world wont help him.

Although its a loose analogy, just fining him some of his salary is a bit like smacking a misbehaving child without telling them why you have done it - all it breeds is resentment from the child.

NM

augustashark
10-03-2006, 06:25 PM
FYI augusta - I was responding to a post asking the questions on which I based my reply......that's why.

NO, NO, NOOOOO - these incidents are NOT completely different other than one happened on a football field and the other happened in a hockey rink. Assault is a crime whether it is premeditated or a "spur of the moment" emotional outburst - check the Crimes Code in your state if you need verification.

I cannot answer your last sentence logically, as I would NEVER, under any circumstances, allow my emotions to cause me to injure another human being. It's called self control. If I ever became so angry with someone as to want to cause them harm, I would seek counseling immediately instead of taking my aggression out on another human being, much less a defenseless one.

You admit in your earlier post that this was not as severe as the Bertuzzi hit? As far as being different, what I meant was that Gurode (Dallas player) will be able to play next week or the week after (have not heard if the gash in the face will keep him out next week or not), Moore on the other hand we did'nt know if you would be able to walk let alone play again. My question is an easy one, Would losing 33% of your salary hurt you or not. I'm not asking if you would hurt someone.

Livinginthe past
10-03-2006, 06:35 PM
You admit in your earlier post that this was not as severe as the Bertuzzi hit? As far as being different, what I meant was that Gurode (Dallas player) will be able to play next week or the week after (have not heard if the gash in the face will keep him out next week or not), Moore on the other hand we did'nt know if you would be able to walk let alone play again. My question is an easy one, Would losing 33% of your salary hurt you or not. I'm not asking if you would hurt someone.

I would suggest that when he knocked Gurode's helmet off and then took a second motion to rake his cleats down the face of the opponent that he intended some pretty serious damage - or was at least reckless as to the possibility that he may blind him.

Just because Gurode was relatively lucky that the injury was limited to his forehead does not mean that Haynesworth should be treated any different.

All that fining the guy will do is fuel the crazy anger tantrums that he obviously suffers from - it wont address or help cure the problem.

NM

augustashark
10-03-2006, 06:42 PM
I would suggest that when he knocked Gurode's helmet off and then took a second motion to rake his cleats down the face of the opponent that he intended some pretty serious damage - or was at least reckless as to the possibility that he may blind him.

Just because Gurode was relatively lucky that the injury was limited to his forehead does not mean that Haynesworth should be treated any different.

All that fining the guy will do is fuel the crazy anger tantrums that he obviously suffers from - it wont address or help cure the problem.

NM

I agree, but he did'nt. I could be wrong, but I don't think that Haynesworth was trying to ruin Gurode's career. In the case of Burtuzzi I think we was trying to take Moore out for an extended period of time or even career. If you go back to that game, the NHL was warning both teams even before the game started. That should tell you that he had some pretty bad intentions. I can say with out a doubt that Haynesworth did not sit at home sat night thinking of ways to knock out Gurode.

Stillers#1
10-03-2006, 06:47 PM
I agree, but he did'nt. I could be wrong, but I don't think that Haynesworth was trying to ruin Gurode's career. In the case of Burtuzzi I think we was trying to take Moore out for an extended period of time or even career. If you go back to that game, the NHL was warning both teams even before the game started. That should tell you that he had some pretty bad intentions. I can say with out a doubt that Haynesworth did not sit at home sat night thinking of ways to knock out Gurode.

I gotta say I agree with you. On a related note, if someone shoots me, and I don't die, they won't be charged with murder, just b/c they COULD HAVE killed me.

hardwork
10-03-2006, 06:54 PM
Thank you. Why I couldn't think of his name I have no clue. Yeah that was just pathetic. He just walked right on his leg and claimed he didn't mean to. Pfft

I think a Virginia Tech player pulled it on a BC player last year.

Anyway. There are levels of reactions to stressful, physically competitive, or violent events. Some reactions are understandable. Some are accepted, not condoned, but accepted, in these situations that wouldn't be accepted at any other time. However, over-reactions that say more about the individual reactor, then the situation, must be pointed out, and severely rejected by society at large.

I have seen young men loose their way in the directionless morass of war. Some soldiers are vulnerable to over-reaction, or to committing criminal acts, before they find themselves on a battlefield. So, when they are presented with a situation, like those found in a war zone, that might allow for them to get away with these kinds of senseless violent acts, they will submit to the urge, and commit the act. Those actions have to be rejected by the unit in which they occurred, and the military as a whole. If they aren't, chaos will ensue.

If the league and fans don't reject the kind of act we saw on sunday, chaos will ensue within the NFL. While the level of violence is greater in war, the model is the same. Sports reflect culture. So, this strong rejection we are seeing on the part of the fans, and many players I might add, is a positive thing.

SteelCityMan786
10-03-2006, 07:14 PM
I think a Virginia Tech player pulled it on a BC player last year.

Anyway. There are levels of reactions to stressful, physically competitive, or violent events. Some reactions are understandable. Some are accepted, not condoned, but accepted, in these situations that wouldn't be accepted at any other time. However, over-reactions that say more about the individual reactor, then the situation, must be pointed out, and severely rejected by society at large.

I have seen young men lose there way in the directionless morass of war. Some soldiers are vulnerable to over-reaction, or to committing criminal acts, before they find themselves on a battlefield. So, when they are presented with a situation, like those found in a war zone, that might allow for them to get away with these kinds of senseless violent acts, they will submit to the urge, and commit the act.
Those actions have to be rejected by the unit in which they occurred, and the military as a whole. If they aren't, chaos will ensue.

If the league and fans don't reject the kind of act we saw on sunday, chaos will ensue within the NFL. While the level of violence is greater in war, the model is the same. Sports reflect culture. So, this strong rejection we are seeing on the part of the fans, and many players I might add, is a positive thing.

Yep, pulled off by Marcus "I have to feel like I'm Michael" Vick. But it was on a Louisville player.

Livinginthe past
10-03-2006, 07:30 PM
I think a Virginia Tech player pulled it on a BC player last year.

Anyway. There are levels of reactions to stressful, physically competitive, or violent events. Some reactions are understandable. Some are accepted, not condoned, but accepted, in these situations that wouldn't be accepted at any other time. However, over-reactions that say more about the individual reactor, then the situation, must be pointed out, and severely rejected by society at large.

I have seen young men lose there way in the directionless morass of war. Some soldiers are vulnerable to over-reaction, or to committing criminal acts, before they find themselves on a battlefield. So, when they are presented with a situation, like those found in a war zone, that might allow for them to get away with these kinds of senseless violent acts, they will submit to the urge, and commit the act.
Those actions have to be rejected by the unit in which they occurred, and the military as a whole. If they aren't, chaos will ensue.

If the league and fans don't reject the kind of act we saw on sunday, chaos will ensue within the NFL. While the level of violence is greater in war, the model is the same. Sports reflect culture. So, this strong rejection we are seeing on the part of the fans, and many players I might add, is a positive thing.

I remember seeing that one a while back.

I think I may have posted it here.

Anyway here it is again - the BC DE is Matthias Kiwanuka (now of the NY Giants)- the dirty player is Brad Butler of UVA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeFWMImiOhM

Another cowardly unprovoked attack - total cheap shot.

NM

hardwork
10-03-2006, 07:33 PM
I remember seeing that one a while back.

I think I may have posted it here.

Anyway here it is again - the BC DE is Matthias Kiwanuka (now of the NY Giants)- the dirty player is Brad Butler of Virginia Tech.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeFWMImiOhM

Another cowardly unprovoked attack - total cheap shot.

NM


Yeah, that's the play I was thinking of.

ch33ky_chikk
10-03-2006, 08:14 PM
I gotta say I agree with you. On a related note, if someone shoots me, and I don't die, they won't be charged with murder, just b/c they COULD HAVE killed me.

True! But they might be charged with attempted murder if they shoot you and you do not die.

The Nashville police and the District Attorney's office have both offered Durode assistance if he wants to proceed with criminal assault charges. Is it a stretch to think that the football cleats could be considered a weapon?

ch33ky_chikk
10-03-2006, 08:21 PM
I have a question: Will Haynesworth be participating in team practices and hanging out with the Titans on a daily basis during his suspension? Or will he be banned from the team locker rooms etc.?

jaysta
10-03-2006, 08:24 PM
I played a lot of years of football -- never professionally -- and I remember all sorts of things happening -especially during a heated game -- but I never saw anything like this -- the guy (Haynesworth) appears to have a real anger problem -- he had to be restrained after he did it -- but then was very sorry and apologetic less than an hour after the incident... this dude has issues...

You're right. What he did was way off base and his reaction afterward was most interesting. As I watched the incident unfold the only thing that came to mind was steroids. Things happen in the heat of battle and emotions definitely run high, but his rage and anger with everyone directly involved with him after the incident was rather shocking. His size, facial structure, reaction, and history of violent behavior all seem to point in one direction. It's just a thought, but I've seen this before up close and personal many times. Steroids and HGH have almost always been the root of the problem. If this is the case and it is somehow proven he may not play again this year anyhow.

meanjoecoop
10-03-2006, 08:25 PM
I have a question: Will Haynesworth be participating in team practices and hanging out with the Titans on a daily basis during his suspension? Or will he be banned from the team locker rooms etc.?

I bet he'll be hanging out with Odel Thurman. :smile:

Livinginthe past
10-03-2006, 08:26 PM
True! But they might be charged with attempted murder if they shoot you and you do not die.

The Nashville police and the District Attorney's office have both offered Durode assistance if he wants to proceed with criminal assault charges. Is it a stretch to think that the football cleats could be considered a weapon?

I dont think it is a stretch at all to imagine cleats as a weapon.

Alot of ordinary items can be used as implements to wound or maim - broken bottles for example.

Personally I would love to see Haynesworth get sentenced to community service and be forced to examine himself in those anger management classes.

NM

jaysta
10-03-2006, 08:28 PM
I have a question: Will Haynesworth be participating in team practices and hanging out with the Titans on a daily basis during his suspension? Or will he be banned from the team locker rooms etc.?

The ruling usually is that they can only not suit up or play on gameday, but the commish can control how much contact he has with the team based on the infraction.

ch33ky_chikk
10-03-2006, 09:11 PM
I think that Haynesworth being sentenced to community service and anger management classes would be interesting too. Picking up trash along the side of the highway sounds about right.

tony hipchest
10-03-2006, 09:48 PM
A couple of weak ass posters.

:toofunny: i just now got it! :toofunny:

seriously though this is about the same as the minor league baseball player who hurled the bat at the ump. you just dont do that. no justification and haynesworth is lucky he got off fairly lightly.

for those who have not seen it, if he wouldve just stopped at the first stomp that took off the helmet he probably wouldve gotten off with a stiff fine or 1 game suspension max. but when he looked down, saw he had knocked the helmet OFF, and then DECIDED to take another kick to the forehead was when he definitely crossed the line.

does premeditation take place in a second or over the course of weeks and years?

Stillers#1
10-03-2006, 09:53 PM
True! But they might be charged with attempted murder if they shoot you and you do not die.

Is it a stretch to think that the football cleats could be considered a weapon?

That wass kind of my point, but everyone here is sayin he COULD HAVE took his eye out, which is true, but what degree of assault would he be charged with, seeing as he didn't do that much damage?

Stillers#1
10-03-2006, 10:09 PM
:does premeditation take place in a second or over the course of weeks and years?

Technically if you do anything you think about it. However, I think what Haynesworth did was a kneejerk reaction, he seems to be more of an ******* the more I read about him.

steelcurtain09
10-03-2006, 10:21 PM
basically haynesworth did a very stupid thing, saw what he did and did it again. in baseball he is awfully close to gettin out.
but this kind of thing has happened before. sticking wit the baseball theme he has already gotten the whole side out. u might be able to dismiss the incident in u of tennessee as him not bein mature. but through his time in the league he has done too much. he should not have even been in the league for all the things he has done.

BlackNGold203
10-03-2006, 10:33 PM
Wow..this thread still going???.....LOL

ch33ky_chikk
10-04-2006, 08:12 AM
I found this poll:

http://espn.go.com/poll/images/poll39657_0.gif

over at ESPN/NFL.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2610577&POLL259=100000000000000000

There are some interesting links to listen to what some experts think about it. Joe Theismann, Eric Allen, Sean Salisbury, and Dallas Cowboys linebacker Bradie James are some of the ones who voice their opinions.

HometownGal
10-04-2006, 08:42 AM
Thanks for the link, ch33ky. I think Merrill Hoge's thoughts here definitely need to be further looked into by the league. He makes a very valid point with regard to the refs.

There should be a heavy penalty whenever another player's career is put in jeopardy as Gurode's was on that play. I'm still wondering why Haynesworth wasn't immediately ejected from the game when he stomped on Gurode's face. Instead he was given a personal foul penalty and only after he started yelling at the ref and threw his helmet did he get tossed out of the game. Whomever reviews the refs should look into why Haynesworth was still on the field immediately after the play and give us a credible reason.

Mark Schlereth also gives an interesting take which I wholeheartedly agree with, though I still believe Haynesworth should be charged with assault, as his actions were deliberate, malicious and willful. If Gurode doesn't press charges against Haynesworth, I hope he at least goes after him civilly. Gurode consulted a plastic surgeon yesterday, so the lacerations to his face must be pretty severe.

That's why he should have been suspended for the rest of the year. It should be the same as a guy who has gone through the drug program in terms of him having to go through a reinstatement program to get back into the league. He has to prove that he has righted this wrong in some way and that he isn't capable of doing something like this ever again. Five games isn't enough.

ch33ky_chikk
10-04-2006, 10:42 AM
I think Durode needs to press charges against Angry Albert as part of the healing process. I think it is his civic duty to proceed with criminal assault charges. One of the reasons I feel so strongly about this is because during the time frame leading up to my court date I discovered that my assailant had attacked at least 3 other people in a similar or worse fashion and I was the first and only one to press charges.

Seeing Durode in the fetal position on the playing field protecting his face after he was stomped and raked with the spikes moved me. It moved me probably because after running about a mile to get away from my attacker, I also ended up in the fetal position hiding under the closest neighbor's dining room table while waiting for the state police to respond.

The state police took me to the local emergency room for treatment before going back with reinforcements to arrest the jerk. Some thing that I did not mention was that I received multiple cuts to my face and body from the broken glass. I also had my mouth open because I screamed and got a mouthful of glass and some minor cuts from spitting out the glass.

It has been several years since the windows were smashed on my car and some of the physical and emotional scars are still there. I avoid looking in the mirror at my image. When a Dodge pickup truck comes up behind me at night and I see the lights in my rear view mirror I sometimes have a flash back and tremble and break out in a sweat because that was the type of truck the jerk drove that attacked me.

I am wondering what thoughts will go through Durode's mind the next time he is in the line up across from a DT. For that matter what thoughts will go through the mind of every center when they face off against Haynesworth?

I am not sure that it has completely sunk in to Durode's mind just how much worse it could have been or how it will affect him in the future. So, even though he is a big guy, I would highly recommend some PTSS counselling for Durode and putting it on Haynesworth's tab.

sumo
10-04-2006, 11:54 AM
You're right. What he did was way off base and his reaction afterward was most interesting. As I watched the incident unfold the only thing that came to mind was steroids. Things happen in the heat of battle and emotions definitely run high, but his rage and anger with everyone directly involved with him after the incident was rather shocking. His size, facial structure, reaction, and history of violent behavior all seem to point in one direction. It's just a thought, but I've seen this before up close and personal many times. Steroids and HGH have almost always been the root of the problem. If this is the case and it is somehow proven he may not play again this year anyhow.

Wow - good point - roid rage - never thought of that - this dude is going to get pummeled over the next year - everybody who is saying he should have been banned, suspended for a whole year, etc - just keep watching - this thing is so far from over -- he is going to get cut after the season - if not sooner by the Titans, successfully sued in the civil system by Gurode, and maybe - maybe if he's lucky - he will get picked up by another team for the league minimum next year making half of what he's making now -- these fat nose tackles have a hard time keeping a job as it is

pitt
10-04-2006, 12:14 PM
He should be thrown out of the NFL permanently and arrested for assault.

augustashark
10-04-2006, 01:11 PM
Wow - good point - roid rage - never thought of that - this dude is going to get pummeled over the next year - everybody who is saying he should have been banned, suspended for a whole year, etc - just keep watching - this thing is so far from over -- he is going to get cut after the season - if not sooner by the Titans, successfully sued in the civil system by Gurode, and maybe - maybe if he's lucky - he will get picked up by another team for the league minimum next year making half of what he's making now -- these fat nose tackles have a hard time keeping a job as it is

You are making accusations here, both of you. Will it make you feel good inside once all these things happen? Don't you think we need to worry about our own problems?

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-04-2006, 01:50 PM
You are making accusations here, both of you. Will it make you feel good inside once all these things happen? Don't you think we need to worry about our own problems?

Damn Shark...you having a bad week?...you are coming across as pretty confrontational!!!! Why get so uptight about a couple of steeler fans throwing around thoughts?...This IS the place for that kind of medium isnt it?:chillpill

sumo
10-04-2006, 03:33 PM
You are making accusations here, both of you. Will it make you feel good inside once all these things happen? Don't you think we need to worry about our own problems?

I don't wish bad things on anybody -- hard to see how you would reach that conclusion from my remarks -- the roid rage comment was thrown out as a real possibility that I had not thought of before -- and I just heard them discussing the other very same possibilities for Haynesworth and his future on ESPN radio on my lunch break -- my main point was that his only punishment being the five game suspension is not accurate -- he is going to suffer with the stigma of this thing and it's going to cost him a lot more than five game checks -- it was a comment directed at everyone saying five game checks isn't a big enough punishment -- will I feel good inside when all this happens to him? -- Uh - no - and I'm still confused how you would think that -- but I have nothing but love for all my Steeler brothers and I will feel really "good inside" when we win big this weekend:jammin:

Preacher
10-05-2006, 03:59 AM
Actually, I am pretty sure he claimed he didn't do it, when he was first confronted with questions about it.

To HTG...The Bertruzzi incident and this are completely different. Bertruzzi actually skated around for a while thinking about what he was going to do. Haynesworth on the other hand, got owned on the play, saw the guy who owned him with his helmet off ( I have heard rumors that Haynesworth actually ripped the Dallas G helmet off, but haven't seen it on tape) and he kicked him in the face. These two incidents, in court, would probably have two different penalties. Bertruzzi received 18 months probation or somethin ( I think I saw someone post this earlier), and the whole Haynesworth thing is a little less severe, IMHO. Regardless of what happens, Haynesworth will not see any jail time over this, even if it does go to court, which it shouldn't. Once again, since people here have questioned my character, I want to stress, I DO NOT CONDONE THIS AT ALL, but I do believe Haynesworth should not go to jail, maybe some league mandated anger-management therapy would do him some good. He does have 5 weeks off after all. I do think that would be a good idea, or maybe the Titans could make him go, and make him pay for it.

:banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging: :banging:

First time explaining this on the thread... but a hundreth time since it happened....

The Todd Bertuzzi incident was a freak accident. Let me take this step by step.
1. Bertuzzi was the enforcer. It was his job to protect the top scorers.
2. Steve Moore knocked out Markus Naslund (Canuck top scorer) two games previously, with a check to the head.
3. Next game was skated to a tie... thus, no chance to take a fighting penalty without hurting the team.
4. In the game where the hit happened... Bertuzzi tried to square up with Moore to fight a few seconds before, and Moore skated away (bad idea, the reality of hockey is that if you injure a player, especially a scorer, you will ALWAYS face their enforcer, even a month later. It is the exact equivelent of the bean-ball in baseball to the player that slid cleats-up and injured the second baseman).
5. Bertuzzi then followed him and hit him blindside (sucker-punch). He was rightly penalized in the game for the action.
6. The injury came (based on the trajectory of the punch and fall) probably on the fall. Thus, it was a freak happening that could have happened while tripping over his own feet.
7. The pile-on very well could have/probably did worsen the injury.

In the end, if Steve Moore wasn't a rookie, it would not have happened (I am not blaming Moore, just stating the fact.) A veteren would have known to square up... throw a punch, then turtle.

Please don't see this as an excuse for Bertuzzi... rather, it is a better understanding of what really happened. Now, why do I say all this in a football thread? Because the situation is VERY DIFFERENT. There is no "Unwritten rule" to kick off someone's helmet. There is absolutely no unwritten rule to cleat someone's exposed head.

Take out the freaky neck break... and what Bertuzzi did doesn't even come close to the idiot Titan player. That was a deliberate and MALICIOUS attempt to SERIOUSLY INJURE someone.

Bertuzzi lost half a million dollars, was disallowed to represent his country twice on national teams, and suspended from ALL European hockey leagues over the lockout year!

There is NO WAY this idiot from the Titans should get away with only a what??? 4 game suspension? Boot him a full year... take away ALL SALARY for that year. Put him on probation for the REST OF HIS CAREER. One more incident... and he is gone. What he did was MUCH WORSE then Bertuzzi.

Stillers#1
10-05-2006, 12:34 PM
I'm sorry, but the Haynesworth siuation is not as bad as the Bertruzzi deal.

Stillers#1
10-06-2006, 10:05 AM
This pretty much sums up how I feel about this.

Vengeful reaction?

By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports
October 5, 2006




There has been plenty of hand-wringing and shouting over Tennessee Titans defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth's violent actions against Dallas Cowboys guard Andre Gurode this week, up to and including that Haynesworth should be sent to jail.

Late in Dallas' blowout win on Sunday, Haynesworth tore off Gurode's helmet and stomped on Gurode's face, twice. Gurode suffered seven cuts and required 30 stitches.

Perhaps the best take on the situation came from former NFL guard Kevin Gogan, a Pro Bowl player who helped win two Super Bowls in Dallas and had the honor (or is it dishonor?) of once being called the dirtiest player in the game.

Gogan gave a glimpse into what happens on the field and put the situation in some perspective in his weekly podcast on NBX.com.

"That was bad," Gogan said. "My quick take is that we saw the worst of what happened, but you have no idea what happened before that during the first 50 plays. There may have been some cheap shots before that. Obviously there was some frustration on (Haynesworth's) part. He got caught. He needs to be smarter than that.

ADVERTISEMENT


"Usually, you don't get your payback like that. You usually have to wait for a few plays then you take your shot. You wait for seven more plays then you take another shot. You wait and wait until you get your opening then you go for the soft tissue. This was made worse because he opened a wound and caused stitches."

The league is rife with situations that are equal or worse to what Haynesworth did. In 1987, New York Jets defensive lineman Marty Lyons accidentally ended the career of Pro Football Hall of Fame Dolphins center Dwight Stephenson with a knee-shattering hit during a fumble return. To this day, the Dolphins believe it was a cheap shot. Lyons, friends with Stephenson since their playing days at Alabama, still has regret over the play, but maintains it was not intentional.

Now comes Haynesworth, who has a checkered past and now a checkered future after being suspended for five games by the NFL. The incident has prompted the hue and cry for severe penalties, including prosecution.

Here's the problem: We expect gigantic, strong men with a propensity for violent behavior to conduct themselves with certain level of decorum in the midst of playing their sport.

A sport that, by the way, is really nothing but organized violence and continues to allow all sorts of conduct that can cause severe injury, such as blocking schemes made popular by Denver over the past 15 years.

But when someone like Haynesworth goes beyond the parameters of what we deem to be acceptable violence, some of us scream and yell that he should be banned for the season, banned from the sport or even put in jail.

Give Tennessee coach Jeff Fisher credit for reacting effectively. He screamed at Haynesworth initially, apologized to Dallas coach Bill Parcells after the game and then made it clear that if the NFL didn't take drastic action against Haynesworth, he would. This sent a clear message that Fisher was in charge of the situation, which is essential to controlling all of the players on his team.

And give Haynesworth at least some credit for being contrite in the aftermath. Immediately after the game, he said he would accept any penalty doled out by the NFL or the Titans. He has called Gurode to apologize. The NFL Players Association has publicly said it won't fight the suspension and Haynesworth was scheduled to hold a press conference Thursday afternoon.

The five-game suspension, which will cost Haynesworth just over $190,000, might not sound like enough. But to put it in perspective, if this was the NBA, it would be a 25-game suspension. In baseball, it would be 50. Those are hefty penalties.

But does Haynesworth deserve to be criminally prosecuted for his actions?

Probably, and there is legal precedent. NHL player Todd Bertuzzi was criminally charged and pleaded guilty in March 2004 after slamming opposing player Steve Moore's head into the ice. The key difference between Bertuzzi and Haynesworth is that Bertuzzi talked before the game about taking retaliation against Moore for things Moore did in a previous game.

In legal terms, Bertuzzi demonstrated malice aforethought. So far, there has been no evidence of that in Haynesworth's case. That doesn't mitigate the act, but it does show a difference in circumstance.

In the end, Haynesworth's actions are inexcusable. He has and should be punished. But before people make him out to be a symbol of all that is bad in the game, understand the entire situation.

In short, don't overreact as badly as Haynesworth did.

Stillers#1
10-06-2006, 10:11 AM
Take out the freaky neck break... and what Bertuzzi did doesn't even come close to the idiot Titan player. That was a deliberate and MALICIOUS attempt to SERIOUSLY INJURE someone.

Bertuzzi lost half a million dollars, was disallowed to represent his country twice on national teams, and suspended from ALL European hockey leagues over the lockout year!

There is NO WAY this idiot from the Titans should get away with only a what??? 4 game suspension? Boot him a full year... take away ALL SALARY for that year. Put him on probation for the REST OF HIS CAREER. One more incident... and he is gone. What he did was MUCH WORSE then Bertuzzi.

This is WORSE than what Bertruzzi did (sorry I just now read your idiotic post the whole way through), dude you must be on some special crack. What Bertuzzi did wasn't a deliberate and MALICIOUS attempt to injure sommeone? Before you start PREACHING TO people, you need to get your racist mind out of the gutter. B/c thats the only reason you can possibly have for thinking what Haynesworth did wwas worse.

Kicking a guy, and driving a guys head into the ICE. hmmmmm maybe I am just retarded, but, if I had my choice about what would happen to me, I take the kick.

Preacher
10-08-2006, 01:59 AM
This is WORSE than what Bertruzzi did (sorry I just now read your idiotic post the whole way through), dude you must be on some special crack. What Bertuzzi did wasn't a deliberate and MALICIOUS attempt to injure sommeone? Before you start PREACHING TO people, you need to get your racist mind out of the gutter. B/c thats the only reason you can possibly have for thinking what Haynesworth did wwas worse.

Kicking a guy, and driving a guys head into the ICE. hmmmmm maybe I am just retarded, but, if I had my choice about what would happen to me, I take the kick.

Race...... WHAT? Racist??? ROTFL... Tell that to my Jewish inlaws... my God-child who is half African American, or my last church that is half african american... racist? Hmmmm....


But as to the ACTUAL FACTS... I was talking to my friend today about the Bertuzzi hit. My friend was a Ref in Major Junior hockey. He agrees with me completely... Bertuzzi's hit was the equivelent of the inside fastball that accidentally rode high and broke the jaw... instead of hitting the guy in the back.

This idiot had nothing of the same. He simply got mad because he was being used as a highlight reel. He let his anger get the best of him and cleated the guy in the head. What he did was WAY WORSE then Bertuzzi because Bertuzzi was operating ACCORDING TO WHAT WAS EXPECTED AS AN ENFORCER.

Now... either argue the argument... or leave it alone.. but ad hominem attack against my character and faith because you disagree with my assessment of a situation? I expect more from a Steeler fan.

Preacher
10-08-2006, 02:17 AM
Oh yeah...

And to answer WHY I feel that way about Bertuzzi?......................

Because I played hockey for 10 years. I know the culture and surrounding "unwritten rules."

Stillers#1
10-13-2006, 03:33 AM
He let his anger get the best of him and cleated the guy in the head. What he did was WAY WORSE then Bertuzzi because Bertuzzi was operating ACCORDING TO WHAT WAS EXPECTED AS AN ENFORCER.

Now... either argue the argument... or leave it alone.. but ad hominem attack against my character and faith because you disagree with my assessment of a situation? I expect more from a Steeler fan.

Dude, you are full of shit on both accounts. Either you are racist...or an idiot. I don't care what Bertuzzi was EXPECTED to do, if you are defending him, you are sick. He drove another mans FACE INTO THE ICE!!! It was FAR MORE premeditated than what Hayneworth did. You pretty much proved my point in your post. Bertuzzi thought about what he was going to do, haynesworth, although wrong, acted without thinking. Bertuzzi is more in the wrong than Al is. Thanks again preacher.

Oh, and not every Steelers fan is perfect.......thanks for proving that also.

X-Terminator
10-13-2006, 04:02 AM
You may think he's on crack, or a racist, or whatever, but a whole LOT of people agree with Preacher's assessment on the Bertuzzi incident and how Moore was injured, including some Avs fans. It doesn't change the fact that it was a deliberate attempt to injure, just as Haynesworth's actions were.

Preacher
10-14-2006, 05:29 AM
Dude, you are full of shit on both accounts. Either you are racist...or an idiot. I don't care what Bertuzzi was EXPECTED to do, if you are defending him, you are sick. He drove another mans FACE INTO THE ICE!!! It was FAR MORE premeditated than what Hayneworth did. You pretty much proved my point in your post. Bertuzzi thought about what he was going to do, haynesworth, although wrong, acted without thinking. Bertuzzi is more in the wrong than Al is. Thanks again preacher.

Oh, and not every Steelers fan is perfect.......thanks for proving that also.

Stiller...

When I played... I had my face driven into the ice a number of times. It truly was a freak accident that broke his neck, and if the neck break didn't happen, we would not be talking about the incident.

On the other hand, whether the Dallas player needed stitches or not, we would still be talking about the cleat rake across the face. It was an action that could only produce ONE RESULT. That is why I don't feel the same way at all about the horrific face-mask against the Chiefs... because even though it was VERY DANGEROUS... it happens all the time without injury... thus, it is not the same INTENT.

Was Bertuzzi's actions premeditated.. of course... but like I said, it was a freak accident of the broken neck... there are HUNDREDS of hockey games from PeeWee's through Pro's played every day across North America. Behind the net... come down the boards, someone driving someone else into the ice probably happens at least 20 to 50 times a day WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE... So for a third time.. it was a freak happening.

THAT is why I think the Titan player is worse, because cleating a guy in the head CAN ONLY produce the result which it did. Hockey players have done what Bertuzzi did hundreds and thousands of times (ref. prev. paragraph) without injury.

I guess... If I had to sum up my position in just a few words.. it would be this...

Bertuzzi-- Unintended consequence of a intentional action
Haynesworth--Intented consequence of an intentional action
THAT is why I see Hayneworth as worse the Bertuzzi in their incidents.

BTW... In Spokane.. Check out The Onion on the Northside for great hamburgers and Cyrus O'Leary's dowtown... ask for the 10 layer dip (not on the menu anymore, but they still make it.)

Shame there is really no great sports places in Spokane to go and watch football... least not when I lived there.