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tony hipchest
10-05-2006, 11:30 AM
(r.)mark foley. so whats up with this guy? :computer:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/05/hastert.foley/index.html

ok. he didnt actually molest anyone, but you ever see the many episodes of Dateline's "to catch a predator"? it was only a matter of time. dude was practically an invite and a doorstep away from michael jacksondom.

what gets me is the lack of outrage from the g.o.p. that would be there if this were a democratic liberal pulling this stuff. i understand the outrage of the president getting a bj (from a consenting adult who was a member of the opposite sex) and lying about it., but isnt a man wanting to suck the dick of a little boy considerably worse? :binky::monkey:

sure the democrats will be outraged, and the leftist media is making this a main topic in the news recently, but i have yet to see the witch hunt that would exist if he were a lefty. from what ive seen, this is a big, moral, quality of leadership (regardless of party) and societal issue. yet the focus is trying to be shifted to the democrats who are being accused of making this a political issue.

of course the right cant act too concerned. after all their people dont do this type of stuff. elections are coming up and the g.o.p. leaders have ignored this mans actions and swept the issue of him acting inappropriately towards these pages for quite some time. however i feel the outrage and disgust should be the same regardless of party affiliation.

i mean after all, wasnt everybody sickenned the same by that john mark carr character who fantasized about molesting jon benet ramsey, regardless of how they voted? isnt everybody equally turned off on the programs where they bust the predators showing up to minors houses, regardless of party lines?

HometownGal
10-05-2006, 02:18 PM
i feel the outrage and disgust should be the same regardless of party affiliation.



I agree with your statement above, Tony, but I disagree with the theory that the GOP is trying to sweep this situation under the rug. On the contrary, I believe the GOP wants to get all of the facts surrounding this incident straight and all investigations completed before making any type of definitive statement or decision regarding Foley, Hastert and/or anyone else rumored to be involved in this debacle. There are more rumors flying around right now than Ted Kennedy has chins. The matter will be addressed before the House Judiciary Committee and the FBI has been called in to investigate. I, too, want to wait until all of the facts are out before condemning anyone here other than the perpetrator, Mark Foley. As it stands, we have a "he said/he said" controversy between Hastert and Kirk Fordham as to when Hastert was made aware of the situation. I am hoping for a swift and thorough investigation so that this disgusting and vile matter can be resolved. I am not looking at this situation from a party standpoint - I'm looking at it as a human being who is totally outraged and disgusted over former Rep. Foley's vile and perverted behaviors and actions involving minor pages. Whether the perpetrator of such a deviant crime is a hobo who lives under a bridge or the creme de la creme holding a government office - he should be thrown in a jail cell and the key thrown away. Personally, I would also favor a castration, but that's not overly "politically correct" of me. If it turns out that Dennis Hastert or anyone else in his office and/or any other governmental agency knew well in advance of Foley's deviant behaviors, they should also be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

tony hipchest
10-05-2006, 02:58 PM
but I disagree with the theory that the GOP is trying to sweep this situation under the rug. On the contrary,

great points HTG. whether the GOP was warned this was going on or not, i think we all know they would be the last ones to "out" one of their own party, even if they were the 1st ones to know. you gotta think being gay is considered associated more with being liberal and kind of contradicts many conservative Christians views.

augustashark
10-05-2006, 02:59 PM
I agree with your statement above, Tony, but I disagree with the theory that the GOP is trying to sweep this situation under the rug. On the contrary, I believe the GOP wants to get all of the facts surrounding this incident straight and all investigations completed before making any type of definitive statement or decision regarding Foley, Hastert and/or anyone else rumored to be involved in this debacle. There are more rumors flying around right now than Ted Kennedy has chins. The matter will be addressed before the House Judiciary Committee and the FBI has been called in to investigate. I, too, want to wait until all of the facts are out before condemning anyone here other than the perpetrator, Mark Foley. As it stands, we have a "he said/he said" controversy between Hastert and Kirk Fordham as to when Hastert was made aware of the situation. I am hoping for a swift and thorough investigation so that this disgusting and vile matter can be resolved. I am not looking at this situation from a party standpoint - I'm looking at it as a human being who is totally outraged and disgusted over former Rep. Foley's vile and perverted behaviors and actions involving minor pages. Whether the perpetrator of such a deviant crime is a hobo who lives under a bridge or the creme de la creme holding a government office - he should be thrown in a jail cell and the key thrown away. Personally, I would also favor a castration, but that's not overly "politically correct" of me. If it turns out that Dennis Hastert or anyone else in his office and/or any other governmental agency knew well in advance of Foley's deviant behaviors, they should also be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

:thumbsup:

Good post. See HTG we have alot in common.:cheers:

I will wait awhile before I jump in on this.

augustashark
10-05-2006, 03:21 PM
great points HTG. whether the GOP was warned this was going on or not, i think we all know they would be the last ones to "out" one of their own party, even if they were the 1st ones to know. you gotta think being gay is considered associated more with being liberal and kind of contradicts many conservative Christians views.

"We all know"! Just look at HTG'S post and that shows that we all don't agree. Some people will think the same as you and there are some of us who believe as HTG does.

Your last sentence?????? It does not add up.

augustashark
10-05-2006, 03:29 PM
Also Tony, shame on you for putting "Right Wing" in the title......If anything this guy was a moderate. Seems like you are pulling this into a Democrat Republican thing.

Jeremy
10-05-2006, 03:31 PM
Also Tony, shame on you for putting "Right Wing" in the title......If anything this guy was a moderate. Seems like you are pulling this into a Democrat Republican thing.

Dennis Hastert is doing that already. Just today he accussed Bill Clinton of planting spies to gather dirt of Foley to sabotage the midterm elections.

Mosca
10-05-2006, 03:34 PM
I'm as Democratic as they come, and I think there is more than enough blame to go around once or twice to both parties. ANYONE who knew about this guy and let it continue is culpable. My guess is that there was some CYA going on; "You don't tell about me, I won't tell about you." Is there anyone here who DOESN'T think there aren't a few dozen more guys like him, both gay AND straight, preying on both male AND female pages?

The part I really like is watching the far right wing reactionary conservative media like Limbaugh and Hannity try to spin this away from the issue (pedophilia and abuse of power) to the timing of the revelation. Oh, come on. Like the Reps wouldn't have made it an issue if the guy'd been a Dem.... HELLO! REPUBLICAN PARTY! IF YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BE AN ELECTION ISSUE, REVEAL IT YOURSELVES SOMETIME IN THE SPRING!

Seriously, this is a very out of character strategic and tactical misstep for a party that has been really spot on in manipulating public opinion. The Reps just don't know which bricks to prop up next, they're all crumbling, all over.


Tom

tony hipchest
10-05-2006, 03:35 PM
Your last sentence?????? It does not add up.ok we'll try it using your math then. is being gay typically concerned as a "liberal" or "conservative" lifestyle?

augustashark
10-05-2006, 03:38 PM
Dennis Hastert is doing that already. Just today he accussed Bill Clinton of planting spies to gather dirt of Foley to sabotage the midterm elections.

Yea, Hastert is the only one doing it.:dang:

Jeremy
10-05-2006, 03:38 PM
I'm as Democratic as they come, and I think there is more than enough blame to go around once or twice to both parties. ANYONE who knew about this guy and let it continue is culpable. My guess is that there was some CYA going on; "You don't tell about me, I won't tell about you." Is there anyone here who DOESN'T think there aren't a few dozen more guys like him, both gay AND straight, preying on both male AND female pages?

The part I really like is watching the far right wing reactionary conservative media like Limbaugh and Hannity try to spin this away from the issue (pedophilia and abuse of power) to the timing of the revelation. Oh, come on. Like the Reps wouldn't have made it an issue if the guy'd been a Dem.... HELLO! REPUBLICAN PARTY! IF YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BE AN ELECTION ISSUE, REVEAL IT YOURSELVES SOMETIME IN THE SPRING!

Seriously, this is a very out of character strategic and tactical misstep for a party that has been really spot on in manipulating public opinion. The Reps just don't know which bricks to prop up next, they're all crumbling, all over.


Tom

Nobody should listen to Sean Hannity. That man has some serious issues himself and Limbaugh is a criminal.

I wonder what Savage had to say about this today?

augustashark
10-05-2006, 03:40 PM
ok we'll try it using your math then. is being gay typically concerned as a "liberal" or "conservative" lifestyle?

I just wanted to know the relevance of the statement to the rest of your post. Being a smart ass is not the answer either.

Jeremy
10-05-2006, 03:43 PM
Am I the only one who remebers the flap over the Log Cabin Republicans back in the day? I really don't think homosexuality has anything to do with politics. That would be like saying Clinton is a conservative because his daughter went to Standford while Bush is liberal because he had a daughter go to Texas.

augustashark
10-05-2006, 03:47 PM
I'm as Democratic as they come, and I think there is more than enough blame to go around once or twice to both parties. ANYONE who knew about this guy and let it continue is culpable. My guess is that there was some CYA going on; "You don't tell about me, I won't tell about you." Is there anyone here who DOESN'T think there aren't a few dozen more guys like him, both gay AND straight, preying on both male AND female pages?

The part I really like is watching the far right wing reactionary conservative media like Limbaugh and Hannity try to spin this away from the issue (pedophilia and abuse of power) to the timing of the revelation. Oh, come on. Like the Reps wouldn't have made it an issue if the guy'd been a Dem.... HELLO! REPUBLICAN PARTY! IF YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BE AN ELECTION ISSUE, REVEAL IT YOURSELVES SOMETIME IN THE SPRING!

Seriously, this is a very out of character strategic and tactical misstep for a party that has been really spot on in manipulating public opinion. The Reps just don't know which bricks to prop up next, they're all crumbling, all over.


Tom

WOW!!!!!!!!!! :jawdrop:

That's two posts in one. First you say there is blame to go around, then turn around and blame the Republicans for everything....You want to blame them for your car breaking down too.

We will talk on Nov 8th. If you want lets put some $$ on it...No way is this country going to let the leftist take the house and Senate.:wave:

tony hipchest
10-05-2006, 03:54 PM
Also Tony, shame on you for putting "Right Wing" in the title......If anything this guy was a moderate. Seems like you are pulling this into a Democrat Republican thing.my bad. i was using the term "right wing" as a blanket term for republican and "left wing" as a blanket term for democrat.

of course im pulling this into a democrat/ republican thing. i am amazed at their lack of outrage. totally out of character. maybe theyre waiting for more "proof". maybe they see nothing wrong with him asking a teen boy "what are you wearing" or "do i make you horny" after all, he did not say "i want to lick your pee-pee" or ask him if he would put it in his butt.

another thing that suprises me is that all the topics that get talked about in this "locker room" forum (and this is a hot topic of discussion) it took a week for this one to be brought up.

i think your reaction is typical. ive already stated this is a moral issue, a societal issue, and an issue about wether our elected and very handsomly paid leaders should be doing pedophiliac acts.

should america just wait to discuss this until after upcoming elections. as mosca said, the spin has already begun that this is all democrats fault. i call bs.

Jeremy
10-05-2006, 03:56 PM
WOW!!!!!!!!!! :jawdrop:

That's two posts in one. First you say there is blame to go around, then turn around and blame the Republicans for everything....You want to blame them for your car breaking down too.

We will talk on Nov 8th. If you want lets put some $$ on it...No way is this country going to let the leftist take the house and Senate.:wave:

Why not? There are some really deep seated issues that the Republicans have totally fanned on during the last 6 years. The US/Mexico border is basically a turnstile at this point with enforcement being put on the back burner in order to appease the Latino vote. American kids are as poorly educated as they have ever been. And finally the American people don't see progress in Iraq. Even the military is starting to see some dissention about the war as it drags on longer and longer and our hands continued to be tied by the administration.

The Republicans might keep power this year, but time is running out for them to make some meaningful changes in something other than their own warchests.

Mosca
10-05-2006, 04:02 PM
WOW!!!!!!!!!! :jawdrop:

That's two posts in one. First you say there is blame to go around, then turn around and blame the Republicans for everything....You want to blame them for your car breaking down too.

We will talk on Nov 8th. If you want lets put some $$ on it...No way is this country going to let the leftist take the house and Senate.:wave:

No, the post addresses two separate issues, in different paragraphs. The first paragraph addresses the nature of the incident itself, and says that the issue isn't a party issue, it's a Congress issue.

The second addresses the reactionary media's attempt to throw some type, any type, of blame on the Democrats and use that as an election strategy. My response to the second part is that if you want to discuss how it affects elections, you have to back up and see it as a Rep misstep. I have great respect for the Reps ability and foresight on such things; seeing them miss this one is like watching the Babe strike out late in his career, it's like watching Willie Mays misjudge a fly ball in a Mets uniform. There should never have been a NEED to spin it; it should have been quietly handled in the spring, before the primaries, and privately.

Really AS, I'm apolitical on this one, other than not caring for Hannity and Limbaugh. I blame both parties for covering for the guy, and I blame the Reps for letting it damage their chances at controlling power. They're usually smarter than that.


Tom

tony hipchest
10-05-2006, 04:02 PM
Am I the only one who remebers the flap over the Log Cabin Republicans back in the day? I really don't think homosexuality has anything to do with politics. That would be like saying Clinton is a conservative because his daughter went to Standford while Bush is liberal because he had a daughter go to Texas.
i agree that homosexuality crosses party lines. conservatives and republicans and right wingers alike are finding it easier and easier to come out of the closet. although i wonder why it took foley so long (actually he didnt come out). however there is quite a party line seperation on certain homosexual issues. funding for aids research in the 80's comes to mind (which i am all for) and more currently, gay marriage (which i am against).

is the gay governor who came out of the closet (i think hes from new jersey) republican or democrat? im thinking a dem.

augustashark
10-05-2006, 04:05 PM
Why not? There are some really deep seated issues that the Republicans have totally fanned on during the last 6 years. The US/Mexico border is basically a turnstile at this point with enforcement being put on the back burner in order to appease the Latino vote. American kids are as poorly educated as they have ever been. And finally the American people don't see progress in Iraq. Even the military is starting to see some dissention about the war as it drags on longer and longer and our hands continued to be tied by the administration.

The Republicans might keep power this year, but time is running out for them to make some meaningful changes in something other than their own warchests.

Time running out?????

As far as American Kids being poorly educated, I agree, but you need to do some reserch here my friend. Anyone worth salt will tell you the reason for the break down in the school system is not Government, It's the damn teachers union. Want to take a guess which way the teachers union lean? Yea, the Dems are stronger on the border issue:toofunny:

tony hipchest
10-05-2006, 04:07 PM
No, the post addresses two separate issues, in different paragraphs. The first paragraph addresses the nature of the incident itself, and says that the issue isn't a party issue, it's a Congress issue.

The second addresses the reactionary media's attempt to throw some type, any type, of blame on the Democrats and use that as an election strategy. My response to the second part is that if you want to discuss how it affects elections, you have to back up and see it as a Rep misstep. I have great respect for the Reps ability and foresight on such things; seeing them miss this one is like watching the Babe strike out late in his career, it's like watching Willie Mays misjudge a fly ball in a Mets uniform. There should never have been a NEED to spin it; it should have been quietly handled in the spring, before the primaries, and privately.

Really AS, I'm apolitical on this one, other than not caring for Hannity and Limbaugh. I blame both parties for covering for the guy, and I blame the Reps for letting it damage their chances at controlling power. They're usually smarter than that.


Tom

great post. as the main point in this thread clearly stated, the outrage should be the same. it is NOT a political issue. yet now in damage control it will be tried to be made into one. the outrage should be the same by both parties and i gave great examples of other pedophilia acts where i would presume outrage and disgust was equal. (jon benet, and the "to catch a predator" series)

my only commentary on the rep vs. dem side of it is that i really sense a double standard which i think is bogus.

i think rush is full of bogus spin. if this were a dem he would blame the dems (and use the material to boost his ratings for the next 6 months). this is a rep. and he still blams the dems. anyone see the hypocritical nature their? and yes he is a criminal druggie but i have done oxycontin (for a buzz) and it feels like what you see in the movies when you see people do heroin. especially if you drink a beer. i can see why rush likes it.

sumo
10-05-2006, 04:13 PM
The problem with every scandal always lies in the cover up -- or the perceived cover up -- Foley will pay for being a pedophile - legally and politcally -- the collateral damage from the cover up will go on and on and on --- see watergate, whitewatergate, lewisnksy, iran contra, clintons, etc -but that's ok - it's the only thing keeping any of these guys in check- maybe some good will come from it in the form of harsher penalties for pedophiles, a better legisalator in his place, change of procedures for better conduct on the hill -- it's not all bad -- our system works...

augustashark
10-05-2006, 04:13 PM
No, the post addresses two separate issues, in different paragraphs. The first paragraph addresses the nature of the incident itself, and says that the issue isn't a party issue, it's a Congress issue.

The second addresses the reactionary media's attempt to throw some type, any type, of blame on the Democrats and use that as an election strategy. My response to the second part is that if you want to discuss how it affects elections, you have to back up and see it as a Rep misstep. I have great respect for the Reps ability and foresight on such things; seeing them miss this one is like watching the Babe strike out late in his career, it's like watching Willie Mays misjudge a fly ball in a Mets uniform. There should never have been a NEED to spin it; it should have been quietly handled in the spring, before the primaries, and privately.

Really AS, I'm apolitical on this one, other than not caring for Hannity and Limbaugh. I blame both parties for covering for the guy, and I blame the Reps for letting it damage their chances at controlling power. They're usually smarter than that.Tom

I completely agree. I will wait to see all the facts and then we can debate further.:cheers:

tony hipchest
10-05-2006, 04:20 PM
Time running out?????

As far as American Kids being poorly educated, I agree, but you need to do some reserch here my friend. Anyone worth salt will tell you the reason for the break down in the school system is not Government, It's the damn teachers union. Want to take a guess which way the teachers union lean? Yea, the Dems are stronger on the border issue:toofunny:so is that waht not only made mark foley gay but gave him the urges to stick his hands down little boys pants?

i think my point is being perfectly illustrated here. no matter what this republican congressman did, the blame is gonna be deflected to the democrats in an attempt to sweep his perverted nature under the rug (atleast until the elections are over). this isnt about elephants and donkey yet that is what it is becoming.

its time for the party to embrace and show their support for foley!:wink02: "attack the dems!"

tony hipchest
10-05-2006, 04:22 PM
The problem with every scandal always lies in the cover up -- or the perceived cover up -- Foley will pay for being a pedophile - legally and politcally -- the collateral damage from the cover up will go on and on and on --- see watergate, whitewatergate, lewisnksy, iran contra, clintons, etc -but that's ok - it's the only thing keeping any of these guys in check- maybe some good will come from it in the form of harsher penalties for pedophiles, a better legisalator in his place, change of procedures for better conduct on the hill -- it's not all bad -- our system works...

great point.

tony hipchest
10-05-2006, 04:24 PM
I completely agree. I will wait to see all the facts and then we can debate further.:cheers:hear, hear! im just glad a 16 year old boy with rectal tears wont be part of the evidence that will be held against this leader of our nation. :cheers:

augustashark
10-05-2006, 04:26 PM
my bad. i was using the term "right wing" as a blanket term for republican and "left wing" as a blanket term for democrat.

of course im pulling this into a democrat/ republican thing. i am amazed at their lack of outrage. totally out of character. maybe theyre waiting for more "proof". maybe they see nothing wrong with him asking a teen boy "what are you wearing" or "do i make you horny" after all, he did not say "i want to lick your pee-pee" or ask him if he would put it in his butt.

another thing that suprises me is that all the topics that get talked about in this "locker room" forum (and this is a hot topic of discussion) it took a week for this one to be brought up.

i think your reaction is typical. ive already stated this is a moral issue, a societal issue, and an issue about wether our elected and very handsomly paid leaders should be doing pedophiliac acts.

should america just wait to discuss this until after upcoming elections. as mosca said, the spin has already begun that this is all democrats fault. i call bs.

I think your reaction to my reaction is typical!:sofunny:

Read some more news Tony, there are several R's coming out against Foley. I challenge you to find one R that has said, Keep him in! He did nothing wrong. Wait that happen already back in the early eighties....with a.......Dem.......I think........Yea a Dem.

augustashark
10-05-2006, 04:28 PM
hear, hear! im just glad a 16 year old boy with rectal tears wont be part of the evidence that will be held against this leader of our nation. :cheers:

You need to clean up your speach a little bit Tony. I'm not one to whine, but for the love of god can't you find other words to use then the ones you are. This just makes you look weak in your arguments.

You can do it.:wave:

Jeremy
10-05-2006, 04:40 PM
If you really believe that the teacher's unions are the ones who are responsible for the ruination of public schools you're way off base. There's plenty of blame to go around from the unions to the parents and to the government.

augustashark
10-05-2006, 04:44 PM
If you really believe that the teacher's unions are the ones who are responsible for the ruination of public schools you're way off base. There's plenty of blame to go around from the unions to the parents and to the government.

I don't want to take this thread off topic.

I blame all three:

1%-Government

1%-Parents

98%-Teachers Union


:wave:

Jeremy
10-05-2006, 04:48 PM
It's obvious you've never taught.

The parents shoulder way more than 1% of the blame.

I'm guessing you come from the standpoint of there's nothing wrong with my kids, it's all somebody else's fault that he's messed up.

Cape Cod Steel Head
10-05-2006, 04:54 PM
I don't want to take this thread off topic.

I blame all three:

1%-Government

1%-Parents

98%-Teachers Union


:wave:Because we all know that teacher unions are the ones who create the budgets and underfund their schools! And that the teacher unions are the ones who fail to check to see if their child did their homework! And teacher unions are responsible for seeing that the children actually attend school. And teacher unions.........................:dang:

Jeremy
10-05-2006, 04:55 PM
Because we all know that teacher unions are the ones who create the budgets and underfund their schools! And that the teacher unions are the ones who fail to check to see if their child did their homework! And teacher unions are responsible for seeing that the children actually attend school. And teacher unions.........................:dang:

Stop with the common sense!

augustashark
10-05-2006, 05:43 PM
Because we all know that teacher unions are the ones who create the budgets and underfund their schools! And that the teacher unions are the ones who fail to check to see if their child did their homework! And teacher unions are responsible for seeing that the children actually attend school. And teacher unions.........................:dang:

You made my point. Thank you. And jeremy don't piggyback, bring your own.

CapeCod are you saying the Teachers union has no part? Just want to see your answer.

Underfunding?????? Thats a federal government problem?

Here is a book that I recommend:

http://www.vdare.com/pb/apple.htm

Once again, I don't want to get off topic off the thread.:wave:

Jeremy
10-05-2006, 05:51 PM
Underfunding?????? Thats a federal government problem?

Yes.

You made my point.

How? Your point is that everything is the fault of the teacher's unions. His point is that the unions can only control what happens inside the schools. Your little book looks interesting, but I failt to see how the teacher's unions are responsible for kids who have no respect for authority, don't attend school, etc.

Blaming the tecahers is the ultimate cop out for parents. But coming from a conservative, I'm not all that surprised. Responsibility isn't a big thing among conservative parents.

sumo
10-05-2006, 06:10 PM
Once again, I don't want to get off topic off the thread.:wave:[/QUOTE]

Too late - start off with gay congressman and end at teacher's unions -I love it - hey I agree with you that the unions are a big part of the problem -- my family has been in education for years teachers, coaches, principals, the unions are out for themselves first, their members a distant second, and the schools/students a way distant third -- huge amounts of funding won't solve the problem either -- the states with the largest allocation per student don't have the best students, schools, and teachers and everybody already knows this -- but putting the unions at 98% blame is over-doing it - that's why you got everybody upset -- but I've been watching you since I joined .. you like to stir it and that's ok - a lot of the time it leads to good debates...

Mosca
10-05-2006, 06:36 PM
LOL, I had to check the header to make sure I hadnt accidentally changed threads!


Tom

Cape Cod Steel Head
10-05-2006, 07:04 PM
You made my point. Thank you. And jeremy don't piggyback, bring your own.

CapeCod are you saying the Teachers union has no part? Just want to see your answer.

Underfunding?????? Thats a federal government problem?

Here is a book that I recommend:

http://www.vdare.com/pb/apple.htm

Once again, I don't want to get off topic off the thread.:wave:What exactly is your point? As for your book goes I don't read books authored by paleoconservatives.

Cape Cod Steel Head
10-05-2006, 07:06 PM
Yes.



How? Your point is that everything is the fault of the teacher's unions. His point is that the unions can only control what happens inside the schools. Your little book looks interesting, but I failt to see how the teacher's unions are responsible for kids who have no respect for authority, don't attend school, etc.

Blaming the tecahers is the ultimate cop out for parents. But coming from a conservative, I'm not all that surprised. Responsibility isn't a big thing among conservative parents.Thanks for saving me the time, and trouble.

tony hipchest
10-05-2006, 07:37 PM
You need to clean up your speach a little bit Tony. I'm not one to whine, but for the love of god can't you find other words to use then the ones you are. This just makes you look weak in your arguments.

You can do it.:wave:

:chuckle: rectal tears is standard medical terminology. atleast i didnt say "ass fissures" or "butt rips".

anyways you need to capitalize the word God. after all in this nation of free speech, under God, indivisible, united, with liberty, and justice for all, it offends me to see God uncapitalized. :wink02: so i cant say "rectal tears" on a bb but its ok for an elected official to proposition minor boys? :dang:

but its good some members of the g.o.p. have finally stood up to make a stand. of course this is a week after the fact, as evidence mounts that not only did he do the despicable deeds in question but that this mans inappropriate actions have been known about and ignored for up to years. :coffee:

Lyn
10-05-2006, 08:07 PM
According to liberals, Foley, as a Republican, is unfit for office because of his gay pedophilia. But they are planning to file a lawsuit if he is barred from becoming a Boy Scout troop leader. Developing...............

Liberals want Foley and any other Republican that knew about his actions ousted. But if he were a Boy Scout leader the ACLU would be suing on his behalf! Hypocrites!

See, I believe that the ACLU, if Foley were a Democrat, would back his right to say or "write' whatever he wanted, even if "the message is one most people find repulsive". This is their own excuse for defending NAMBLA.

For those that don't know, NAMBLA stands for: The North American Man/Boy Love

I am awaiting further instructions from our leaders. You know, Limbaugh, Hannity and Coulter.


Such a complete sicko. Limbaugh inferred this was all brought about by the dems.

tony hipchest
10-05-2006, 08:20 PM
According to liberals, Foley, as a Republican, is unfit for office because of his gay pedophilia. But they are planning to file a lawsuit if he is barred from becoming a Boy Scout troop leader. Developing...............

Liberals want Foley and any other Republican that knew about his actions ousted. But if he were a Boy Scout leader the ACLU would be suing on his behalf! Hypocrites!

See, I believe that the ACLU, if Foley were a Democrat, would back his right to say or "write' whatever he wanted, even if "the message is one most people find repulsive". This is their own excuse for defending NAMBLA.

For those that don't know, NAMBLA stands for: The North American Man/Boy Love

I am awaiting further instructions from our leaders. You know, Limbaugh, Hannity and Coulter.


Such a complete sicko. Limbaugh inferred this was all brought about by the dems.so since the democrats are against him, what he did is ok? this has nothing to do with the aclu or nambla or the boyscouts or catholic church.


i guess rush is right. it was a democratic congressman who was just exposed as a potential gay pedophile. :rolleyes:

tony hipchest
10-05-2006, 08:35 PM
so the question becomes:

is throwing trash on an opposing political party a legitimate defense and excuse for what this man has been doing? are his actions NOT repulsive?

Lyn
10-05-2006, 09:08 PM
First, let me state that what Foley did is indefensible. Work with me, Tony:)

Do you think there is a more significant relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia than there is between heterosexuality and pedophilia?

It's not homosexuality that causes any issues, but the repression of that sexuality that causes problems. Our society so demonizes homosexuality that those desires cause a great deal of conflict for the person who is gay. Early homosexual encounters are desired, but the feeling of "wrong" can overwhelm someone and cause their sexuality to be expressed in unhealthy ways.

McGreevey and Foley are examples of men caught in this negative cycle, and until they can deal with themselves with honesty and integrity, it's unlikely that they'll be able to do that for others in their lives. Foley is likely so uncomfortable with his sexuality that he's attracted to individuals where his desires first formed. It may be criminal, but it's also understandable.

The answer to many issues we have in terms of homosexuality (and even pedophilia to a lesser degree) is a less Victorian society where people can feel comfortable with their sexuality, and explore that in healthy ways from an early age......

tony hipchest
10-05-2006, 09:39 PM
First, let me state that what Foley did is indefensible. Work with me, Tony:)

Do you think there is a more significant relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia than there is between heterosexuality and pedophilia?

......i am pretty much right in line with moscas initial viewpoints on this topic. this happens regardless of if the offender is rep or dem or if the victim is male of female/ hetero or gay.

i am intrigued by the perception and the persecution.

personally as a heterosexual teenager i have been on both sides of the so called molestation and statutory limits. as a 14 year old i was with a an 18 year old girl and as an 18 year old i couldve been prosecuted. however, if the nations political balance lied in my hands, as a teenager, i wouldve avoided both situations.

my commentary is more directed to the reaction in a political forum than the action itself.

Mosca
10-05-2006, 10:23 PM
Wow... did the same Lyn write the last two posts? :D

The basis for the ACLU defending even such totally reprehensible organizations such as NAMBLA is to give ANYONE the best defense possible. The reason this works to our advantage is that when they get convicted, no one can say they didn't get a good shot. And remember, ACLU doesn't cost us a dime, it is privately funded. Beats the heck out of the government providing that service.

The law is for everyone, and protection under the law has to be available for everyone and can't be applied selectively; if it is allowed to be applied selectively then it becomes a tool for vengeance, and if it is allowed to be a tool for vengeance then it can be levied against anyone for any reason, for the vindictiveness of the men and women who act as judge and jury. And such vengeance could eventually come down on you. Or me.

Civil liberties are the only liberties we have. Break them or bend them and you lose them.


Tom

augustashark
10-05-2006, 10:26 PM
Once again, I don't want to get off topic off the thread.:wave:

Too late - start off with gay congressman and end at teacher's unions -I love it - hey I agree with you that the unions are a big part of the problem -- my family has been in education for years teachers, coaches, principals, the unions are out for themselves first, their members a distant second, and the schools/students a way distant third -- huge amounts of funding won't solve the problem either -- the states with the largest allocation per student don't have the best students, schools, and teachers and everybody already knows this -- but putting the unions at 98% blame is over-doing it - that's why you got everybody upset -- but I've been watching you since I joined .. you like to stir it and that's ok - a lot of the time it leads to good debates...[/QUOTE]

You're right sumo, I do like to stir it once in a while. The 98% is a joke. I personally put blame on everyone involved and as a parent I know what is expected of me and I try to meet those expectations. I know there are alot of parents who treat the school systems as there personal babysitter. You hit the nail on the head with students being a distant third. I just put the most blame on the unions. IMO the entire system needs overhauled.

augustashark
10-05-2006, 10:33 PM
Yes.



How? Your point is that everything is the fault of the teacher's unions. His point is that the unions can only control what happens inside the schools. Your little book looks interesting, but I failt to see how the teacher's unions are responsible for kids who have no respect for authority, don't attend school, etc.

Blaming the tecahers is the ultimate cop out for parents. But coming from a conservative, I'm not all that surprised. Responsibility isn't a big thing among conservative parents.

Right there. See thats part of my point. You say "can only control what happens inside the schools" Your right, so keeping with that logic should'nt they then be the most to blame when the system breaks down?

Also thanks for pointing out that I'm a irresonsible conservative parent. I don't even know you, but I would never make a point to call you a bad parent (if you are).

augustashark
10-05-2006, 10:43 PM
Interesting. Blaming the unions for the problems with education in America is like me as an Air Force NCO blaming the officers for problems among the enlisted. I can do it, but it doesn't make much sense. The responsibility for maintaining discipline and training falls to us, not the officers. Just like the responsibility for ensuring my child is a good student falls to me and not the teachers. Teachers show children the door, it's up to them to walk through it.

Homeschooling isn't the answer either. I have Airman who were homeschooled and we have to spend twice as much time with them because of their lack of social skills.

As a parent and former education major I'll agree with you that there are problems with the education system in America. But you can't lay the blame at the feet of one group no matter what a book tells you. One thing the military has taught me is that education is the responsibility of all parties involved. You cannot throw up your hands and say I've done my part and walk away.

Like most things in life, you can't lay blame at the feet if just one person or group. In order for something as large and complex as public education to fail, multiple people and groups had to drop the ball.

I agree with your post sir. I will make this point though. If the responsibility falls to me for my child to be a good student (which I agree with) then what happens when my son or daughter draws a teacher for class that is just there to earn a paycheck and that spectacular benefits package. Do I need to do their job also. As is in any industry if you don't perform then you get the door, but in the teaching industry that does not happen. There in lies the problem (one of many).

augustashark
10-05-2006, 10:50 PM
What exactly is your point? As for your book goes I don't read books authored by paleoconservatives.

My points are all over the thread so there is no reason to repost. As far as the book, thats ok if you don't want to read it. Ya, because the book was wrote by a conservative means it has to be wrong.:dang:

You need to expand a little bit CCSH.:wave:

augustashark
10-05-2006, 10:55 PM
:chuckle: rectal tears is standard medical terminology. atleast i didnt say "ass fissures" or "butt rips".

anyways you need to capitalize the word God. after all in this nation of free speech, under God, indivisible, united, with liberty, and justice for all, it offends me to see God uncapitalized. :wink02: so i cant say "rectal tears" on a bb but its ok for an elected official to proposition minor boys? :dang:

but its good some members of the g.o.p. have finally stood up to make a stand. of course this is a week after the fact, as evidence mounts that not only did he do the despicable deeds in question but that this mans inappropriate actions have been known about and ignored for up to years. :coffee:

:headshake:

You seem so capable.

hardwork
10-05-2006, 11:44 PM
First, let me state that what Foley did is indefensible. Work with me, Tony:)

Do you think there is a more significant relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia than there is between heterosexuality and pedophilia?

It's not homosexuality that causes any issues, but the repression of that sexuality that causes problems. Our society so demonizes homosexuality that those desires cause a great deal of conflict for the person who is gay. Early homosexual encounters are desired, but the feeling of "wrong" can overwhelm someone and cause their sexuality to be expressed in unhealthy ways.

McGreevey and Foley are examples of men caught in this negative cycle, and until they can deal with themselves with honesty and integrity, it's unlikely that they'll be able to do that for others in their lives. Foley is likely so uncomfortable with his sexuality that he's attracted to individuals where his desires first formed. It may be criminal, but it's also understandable.

The answer to many issues we have in terms of homosexuality (and even pedophilia to a lesser degree) is a less Victorian society where people can feel comfortable with their sexuality, and explore that in healthy ways from an early age......


Are you the next editor of Playboy?

Lyn
10-06-2006, 08:19 AM
This whole debate is why psychology is such garbage in terms of being a science. Pedophiles are the way they are because of being abused, except when they weren't abused. In that case it is repressed sexuality except when it is hetrosexuality. In that case it might be due to an overly religious houshold that demonized sex, or if it is a household that is too liberal and doesn't have appropriate boundaries among children and adults.

BLAH BLAH BLAH. :blah: :blah:

Mosca
10-06-2006, 10:01 AM
So true, Lyn. Don't we often see the beliefs (and faults) of the analyst projected onto the subject? People are too complicated to invent templates. You'll never get enough below a 1:1 correspondence between model and reality to get any useful information from the model, it seems. The generalities will only apply until you hit yet another exception.

The Gilmore family produced Gary, a spree killer; and Mikhael, an award winning author. Go figure.


Tom

Cape Cod Steel Head
10-06-2006, 05:16 PM
Right there. See thats part of my point. You say "can only control what happens inside the schools" Your right, so keeping with that logic should'nt they then be the most to blame when the system breaks down?

Also thanks for pointing out that I'm a irresonsible conservative parent. I don't even know you, but I would never make a point to call you a bad parent (if you are).When you say "they " do you mean the teachers who spend 5 hrs. a week with their son,or daughter,grandchild, which unfortunately is more time than their own parent spends with them in a weeks time?

Maidenarcher
10-07-2006, 04:33 PM
WOW.....This post really took all kinds of turns from it's original path....

The only thing I can say is this is very sick behavior. Regardless of which political affiliation these people are associated with. It is so easy to start pointing fingers when you are part of the opposing political group. However, that whole political arguement takes away from the major importance of the issue at hand. It doesn't matter what side did this either side would have protected that individual for fear it would tarnish the whole groups political reputation.
I don't know what each of your states are doing, but Northern Louisiana has continued to do stings on the internet to catch predators. They have busted a lot of folks....From political people to popular radio personalities.

Lyn
10-07-2006, 04:48 PM
you are so right! Party affiliation SHOULD hsve nothing to do with it.