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View Full Version : QB contraversy?????????


coachspeak33
10-10-2006, 01:01 PM
I have been saying for weeks that whisenhunt needs to accept much of the responsibility for the Steelers early season woes.

Now Ben hasnt played well (that is 100% obvious) but whisenhunt seems to want to play a completely different brand of ball from the one that helped the Steelers win that elusive 5th world title.

Now i am begining to hear some steelers fans call for Mr. Batch... well here are the facts

Whisenhunt called a completely different game offensively against the Dolphins w/ Charlie as his QB.

I have been complaining for weeks that he has been asking too much of Ben and where he is most guilty is on 1st down. Just too many passes attempted on 1st down creating 3rd & long situations

So for those of you who think Charlie would cure all of our ills.... understand this Whisenhunt would have to call the game differently.

It didnt surprise me to find that when Batch was the QB vs Miami The kind of game we played was much different than the style we have seen attempted the last three games w/ Big Ben.

Week 1 we attempted only 7 passes on 1st down plays, out of a total of 27 1st down plays.

Week 2 we attempted 15 passes out of 20 total 1st down plays.

Wek 3 we attempted 18 passes out of 33 total 1st down plays vs maybe the worst run D that we have played this season (need proof .... we averaged over 7 yds per carrry on 1st down vs the Bungals.

In the Miami game he let Willie run the pill and let Charlie take a few chances at opportune times.... ask Heath Miller how that worked out!!!! It worked out to a great play that ended as a 80 some yard TD catch. That play took place in the second half oddly enough.... which has been his last catch in the second half of a game this year.... thats right our possession receiver inbetween the hashes hasnt caught a ball in the second half of a game since week 1.

Those numbers describing what we do on 1st down paints an ugly picture when every person on our offense has a strength based on the running game....except for Heath and oh by the way we dont even use him when passing.... he must stay at the line and help the T's block cause none of them specialize in pass blocking.

This is a rediculous differential.... and our woes will continue until they commit to the running game... If I remember correctly that is what we did during the 15-1 season of 04.... I think it was because we had a new quarterback that we re-commited ourselves...

I THINK HIS NAME WAS ROETHLIS-something.

steelfan 92
10-10-2006, 01:24 PM
i don't think we have a controversey, but i just think they need to go back to what got them there, run the ball and play defense, have ben manage the game no try to win the game, i think ben is a great qb, but he is not on the elite level like payton manning, who can and will throw the ball to win. don't get me wrong i would not trade ben for anyone, but if it is not broke don't fix it. stick with the formula that make them the franchise that they are. run the rock, and run the rock some more. if they can establish the run they will have to put more guys in the box to stop the run. then they can us the play pass to take their shots donwfield, that is when they are at their best.

Atlanta Dan
10-10-2006, 01:35 PM
Whiz is calling the same plays (lots of passes on first down) that worked against Cincy, Indy, and Denver in last year's playoffs. Of course, defenses adjust and are not selling out for the run on first down, as was the case last season.

Until the Steelers restore respect for the run what was available last year is not going to be there for the taking. Combine that with Ben refusing to tuck it and run (a big factor in receivers breaking free the last 2 seasons) and the passing game is a mess.

If Whiz has the guts to call it and Ben will do it, it might help if the Steelers ran some roll out passes in which running is a viable, if not first, option - I know regular runs can get your QB killed but something needs to draw the DBs closer to the line of scrimage.

BigBensBikeHelmet
10-10-2006, 01:58 PM
What has Ben shown that makes you think he should be a starting QB in the NFL? His passer rating, especially in his last 5 games is a joke.

19ward86
10-10-2006, 02:15 PM
i completely agree with you, whiz made good calls all night. the last 3 games have been him acting like he wants to protect ben by not throwing it but at the end we end up being behind so we have to throw. people say we cant throw 30 or more times and i dont think that is true. if we throw 30 times lets do it in a good way. instead of 40% of the 30 throws being 60 yd bombs, lets make 10% bombs and 70% slants and hook plays like we did last year. its not throwing 30 times it is that we throw big throws too many times when we throw a lot and we dont have the offensive weapons to do that.

stlrtruck
10-10-2006, 03:10 PM
What has Ben shown that makes you think he should be a starting QB in the NFL? His passer rating, especially in his last 5 games is a joke.

His overall performance the last 2 years, including last years playoff run. So I guess you think Hasselback has proven he's such a great NFL QB?

As I recall his career it hasn't been that stellar and it wasn't until recently that he's actually produced (and if I cared enough I would research his stats). The fact that Ben has done more in the early part of his career is proof enough of his ability to play in this league.

Atlanta Dan
10-10-2006, 03:13 PM
What has Ben shown that makes you think he should be a starting QB in the NFL? His passer rating, especially in his last 5 games is a joke.

Gee I do not know - 14-1 as a starter in 2004. Super Bowl champ with three road playoff victories in 2005. Passer rating in the high 90s both seasons.

Given the woeful performance by your team's QB in the Super Bowl (the INT gift wrapped for Ike Taylor in the 4th Q ranks with any brain cramp Ben has committed) and the brilliant team effort in Chicago last week it would appear you have enough to worry about without asking us to defend the performance of the QB that was on the winning side in Detroit last February.

I know you are going to claim Ben benefits from his system but the imortal Mr. Hasselback has a pretty fair runneing back - when Alexander was not playing Hassleback certainly carried the team to glory in Chicago last Sunday night, didn't he?

Your screen name says it all - go away troll

Black@Gold Forever32
10-10-2006, 03:53 PM
Stop there is no QB contraversry with the Steelers. Ben is the starter and I don't care if he throws 3 more INT's with no TD's against the Chiefs. The Steelers have to stick with him until he gets back to form. Well there is chance Ben might never regain his form. But the Steelers have to find that out. I hope he does. But at this point who knows.

memphissteelergirl
10-10-2006, 04:09 PM
Gee I do not know - 14-1 as a starter in 2004. Super Bowl champ with three road playoff victories in 2005. Passer rating in the high 90s both seasons.

Given the woeful performance by your team's QB in the Super Bowl (the INT gift wrapped for Ike Taylor in the 4th Q ranks with any brain cramp Ben has committed) and the brilliant team effort in Chicago last week it would appear you have enough to worry about without asking us to defend the performance of the QB that was on the winning side in Detroit last February.

I know you are going to claim Ben benefits from his system but the imortal Mr. Hasselback has a pretty fair runneing back - when Alexander was not playing Hassleback certainly carried the team to glory in Chicago last Sunday night, didn't he?

Your screen name says it all - go away troll


:tt02: Amen, Brother!! :thumbsup:

BBBH, take notes..this is called backing up what you say with all the facts, not just the bits you like. Remember that....

Thanks for playing....goodbye!

The_Professor
10-10-2006, 04:14 PM
Coachspeak, again more passes are generally attempted when 1. the run game can't get anything going, per the JAX game or 2. the team is behind , also see the JAX game.

To just throw that statistic out there without these qualifiers is again misleading on your part.

In the first half, Ben attempted 6 pass plays on 1st down to 4 runs, not a bad ratio at all, considering the run game was doing ABSOLUTELY nothing. Wisenhunt then had to try something to jump start the offense, especially when they fell behind in the second half and the run game was getting dominated. So to say that Wiz is just arbitrarily calling passes and putting too much pressure on Ben is absurd. Most all of those statistics you mentioned occuring the 2nd half with the Steelers behind in need of points, all while their run game wasn't working (not a surprise considering their opponents D-tackles). Calling passes in those situations is necessary, not random or stupid as you seem to think it is. This isn't your 1974 Steelers or NFL where we can just run all the time against 9 in the box, Ben is a capable passer and must be allowed to pass whenever the situation dictates, not simply on play-action or in the 2nd half while trailing. The problem has been the o-line, the receivers, and yes at times certainly Ben's poor play. What the problem hasn't been (which you can't seem to grasp) is Wiz's putting too much pressure on Ben who isn't that type of QB. That is not the situation here; Ben is fully capable of handling a large role in the offense, he proved as much in the AFC Divisional and Title Games last year. This QB controversy stuff is also crap Ben actually played decent this past week minus 2 bonehead INT's one of which a guy was in his grill while he was trying to make a play...With that said.... Go Steelers , let's get it turned around this weekend.

BigBensBikeHelmet
10-10-2006, 04:31 PM
The fact that you guys even compare lil' Ben to Hasselbeck is hilarious. Hass is a premier QB in the NFL. lil Ben is the product of Jeromme Bettis, having (at one point anyway) 3 top receivers, and most ofall an elementary passing offense. He is showing his true colors this year. He is garbage.

You say back it up with stats? haha some statline your QB has had even during his 14-1 run. Hasselbeck has had roughly twice as many attempts, completions, yards, TDs, and prowbowls as Lil' Ben. Face it you guys backed your way into a superbowl. Now that there is proof that your team aint nothin' I am here to rub it in your face!!!

dont forget boys and girls, wear your helmet when your ride a bike!
http://seahawksal.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_good.gif

BigBensBikeHelmet
10-10-2006, 04:32 PM
Besides... you know you all want batch starting anyway... its your only chance at turning this season around...

http://seahawksal.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_good.gif

Black@Gold Forever32
10-10-2006, 04:42 PM
Three top WR's? When did Ben ever have 3 top WR's? The only really good consisten WR Ben has had is Hines Ward. He had Plax Burress for his rookie year but Plax was so ****ing inconsistent it wasn't even funny. El was so overrated as a WR. What exactly is El doing with the Skins by the way? Now don't even call Cedric Wilson a top 3 WR. If you think that then you are a ****ing idiot and should be shot.

Plus you mentioned Ben having Jerome Bettis. Yea a Jerome Bettis past his prime. Bettis was still good but not an elite NFL RB like oh Matt had in Shaun Alexander. Not to mention one of the best Oline's in the NFL.

Yes Ben is playing like garbage right now I agree. But he is only 24 for crying out loud. What is Hasselbeck in his early 30's? Plus Matt Hasselbeck set on the bench and learned for years. He has alot more NFL experience then Ben you idiot. Yes Matt Hasselbeck made himself into a very good NFL QB. But it took time and Matt has had alot more talent on offense around him then Ben you ****ing tool.

By the way yea the Steelers might be 1-3 and might miss the playoffs. But your team will make the playoffs since they play in a sorry division. But the Seahawks will get killed by the Bears. Matt Hasselbeck already proved he can't handle the Bears defense.

Big D
10-11-2006, 09:59 AM
The fact that you guys even compare lil' Ben to Hasselbeck is hilarious. Hass is a premier QB in the NFL. lil Ben is the product of Jeromme Bettis, having (at one point anyway) 3 top receivers, and most ofall an elementary passing offense. He is showing his true colors this year. He is garbage.

You say back it up with stats? haha some statline your QB has had even during his 14-1 run. Hasselbeck has had roughly twice as many attempts, completions, yards, TDs, and prowbowls as Lil' Ben. Face it you guys backed your way into a superbowl. Now that there is proof that your team aint nothin' I am here to rub it in your face!!!

dont forget boys and girls, wear your helmet when your ride a bike!
http://seahawksal.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_good.gif

who won the superbowl again a$$hole. How many superbowls does your team have?

SteelCityPride
10-11-2006, 10:58 AM
Besides... you know you all want batch starting anyway... its your only chance at turning this season around...

http://seahawksal.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_good.gif

This guy is funny, apparently, like many other people who come here to bash, his knowledge of the game of football is not even worth discussing. I love the doubters who say Ben manages a game and can't win a big game. Ben has been the only thing that has given us a chance in the past 2 years. If Tommy Maddox would still be abck there, there is no chance we get into the playoffs anytime since Ben has played. Sure Chaz Batch looked good when we threw him in there for the first game, don't forget where the dolphins are right now as a team and we are also starting to see amazing inconsistency from our wide receivers.

He is funny the way he puts ben on the hot seat saying he's got the bus, when I believe he has the leagues mvp on his side carrying the ball... It will be funny to watch the Seatle team struggle as they will with good teams this year, the loos of their offensive lineman in the offseason was underrated and with fans like him out there no wonde,r they dont know what an offensive lineman does anyways...

HometownGal
10-11-2006, 05:51 PM
The fact that you guys even compare lil' Ben to Hasselbeck is hilarious. Hass is a premier QB in the NFL. lil Ben is the product of Jeromme Bettis, having (at one point anyway) 3 top receivers, and most ofall an elementary passing offense. He is showing his true colors this year. He is garbage.

You say back it up with stats? haha some statline your QB has had even during his 14-1 run. Hasselbeck has had roughly twice as many attempts, completions, yards, TDs, and prowbowls as Lil' Ben. Face it you guys backed your way into a superbowl. Now that there is proof that your team aint nothin' I am here to rub it in your face!!!

dont forget boys and girls, wear your helmet when your ride a bike!
http://seahawksal.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_good.gif

LMFAO!!!! :toofunny: A ssspinchter says what?

It is very obvious that you don't do your homework before you post your mindless drivel. Go right ahead and check the numbers and compare Ben and Chrome Dome in their first 2-1/4 seasons as a starter. You may want to put on a Depends before you do, though, as I think you're gonna shart your skibbies. Wow - Baldie has "twice as many completions, yards and TD's and has been to twice as many Pro Bowls" too. I would hope that is the case, pinhead - he's been in the league 6 years longer than Ben. :sofunny: So- in your opinion, Ben is a product of The Bus? You're cracking me up here, no shit. If you are going to go with that theory, you'd best apply that boneheaded statement to Sir Skinhead, too, as he has had the benefit of having Shaun Alexander as his main ballcarrier since he came to the Waaaaahawks. :toofunny: :toofunny: :tt02:

You are ignoring the most relevant fact of all - Ben has a Super Bowl ring which he rightfully earned - the only ring Waaaaselbeck has is a ring around his collar. He is an average at best QB playing in both a division and conference in which the Browns could probably make the playoffs.

P.S. Though Waaaaaselbeck has tossed 6 TD's so far this season, the great *cough* *choke* 8 year veteran, he has something blatantly in common with Ben - he's also tossed the same nunber of picks. :flap: :toofunny:

BigBensBikeHelmet
10-11-2006, 05:56 PM
You know this is tempting you guys:

http://www.diehardsteel.com/files/images/batch_steelers_GB_0_0.jpg

Black@Gold Forever32
10-11-2006, 06:24 PM
Not really you ass munch. Yes Ben Roethlisberger is playing terrible right now. But you don't bench the QB you drafted with the 11th overall pick in the 2004 draft and has had two good first years because he has three bad games so far in this season. Dude you are a complete tool. Go to a Seahawks board where you can slob on Matt Hasselbeck's knob.

SteelCityMan786
10-11-2006, 06:31 PM
What has Ben shown that makes you think he should be a starting QB in the NFL? His passer rating, especially in his last 5 games is a joke.

Last 4 they haven't impressed me. He did well in the AFC Championship Game against Denver. 1 time however, that didn't matter. They found ways to win without him. They haven't do so this year except when he was out week 1.

Cape Cod Steel Head
10-11-2006, 08:23 PM
who won the superbowl again a$$hole. How many superbowls does your team have?I think that the shirt the little birdie is wearing answers your question.:tt02:

Elvis
10-11-2006, 08:38 PM
THERE IS NO QB CONTRAVERSEY.... For you Seahawk fans that this year is personal... you aint even gonna be in Miami in february this year... the Chicago Bears are gonna dethrone the NFC Champs... its Carolina and Chicago in the NFC....

X-Terminator
10-12-2006, 04:49 AM
LMFAO!!!! :toofunny: A ssspinchter says what?

It is very obvious that you don't do your homework before you post your mindless drivel. Go right ahead and check the numbers and compare Ben and Chrome Dome in their first 2-1/4 seasons as a starter. You may want to put on a Depends before you do, though, as I think you're gonna shart your skibbies. Wow - Baldie has "twice as many completions, yards and TD's and has been to twice as many Pro Bowls" too. I would hope that is the case, pinhead - he's been in the league 6 years longer than Ben. :sofunny: So- in your opinion, Ben is a product of The Bus? You're cracking me up here, no shit. If you are going to go with that theory, you'd best apply that boneheaded statement to Sir Skinhead, too, as he has had the benefit of having Shaun Alexander as his main ballcarrier since he came to the Waaaaahawks. :toofunny: :toofunny: :tt02:

You are ignoring the most relevant fact of all - Ben has a Super Bowl ring which he rightfully earned - the only ring Waaaaselbeck has is a ring around his collar. He is an average at best QB playing in both a division and conference in which the Browns could probably make the playoffs.

P.S. Though Waaaaaselbeck has tossed 6 TD's so far this season, the great *cough* *choke* 8 year veteran, he has something blatantly in common with Ben - he's also tossed the same nunber of picks. :flap: :toofunny:

Not only that, Waaaaaaselbeck threw 5 of those 6 TD passes in one game, could only muster 221 yards passing and ONE TD (and 2 INTs) against an Arizona defense that gave up 288 yards and NO INTs to Alex friggin' Smith, and was shut out by the LIONS of all teams! :toofunny: At least Ben can say he's played against superior competition thus far this season in Jacksonville, Cincinnati and San Diego, all of whom are better than anyone the Seahawks have played except Chicago. And what happened in that Chicago game? They got their butts kicked all over the field!

I guess for every Hawks fan like Hawk Believer, we have Hawks fans like that guy who loves to run his mouth, but has about as much football knowledge as the sweat off my 'nads.

HometownGal
10-12-2006, 06:23 AM
I guess for every Hawks fan like Hawk Believer, we have Hawks fans like that guy who loves to run his mouth, but has about as much football knowledge as the sweat off my 'nads.

I think the sweat off your cahoonans has more football intelligence than that idiot (not Hawk). He probably didn't even know Seattle had an NFL team until last season.