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Atlanta Dan
10-19-2006, 07:04 PM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution is running a series of stories that indicate the Falcons are sending out the vibes of a team that is on the verge of coming apart.

First, AJC columnist Mark Bradley speculates that Falcons O-coordinator Greg Knapp may soon be following the Ravens and Cardinals O-coordinators out the door.

The receivers can?t catch. The quarterback, who was a good enough passer under the previous regime, can?t throw. And surely the Falcons? high-profile owner is beginning to wonder why all this high-falutin? talent ? Pro Bowl quarterback, Pro Bowl running back, Pro Bowl tight end, three wide receivers who were No. 1 picks ? is availing his franchise so little

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2006/10/19/should_knapps_d.html

This jab is joined by AJC columnist Terence Moore contending the Falcons need to dump their unethical cut block schemes:

Except for all of this cut blocking making opponents wish to smash every one of Michael Vick?s corpuscles, and the inability to keep defenders from charging into the backfield within a nanosecond on pass plays, and a puny guy when it comes to the NFL trenches seeking to become a mammoth guy through steroids, the Falcons? smallish offensive line is doing just fine, thank you.

For those who did not read it, a Falcons starter at guard was suspended this week after testing poitive for steroids.

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2006/10/18/falcons_should.html

Finally, Michael Vick now is pining away for the good old days when Dan Reeves coached the Falcons (until Vick's complaints helped get Reeves fired) and wishes he played QB for the Colts.

Vick told HBO's Cris Carter, on a segment of Inside the NFL, which aired Wednesday and will be replayed during the week that, "It's the worst I ever felt," after the Giants game. Vick was sacked a career-high seven times.

In the interview with the former NFL wide receiver, Vick also chimed in on several other subjects. Here are some excerpts:

? "You've got to throw the ball sometimes," Vick said. "You can't just line up and run the ball every time on first and second down. Teams key in on that and they have coaches, too. We're going to have to throw it more ... Coach [Jim Mora] is going have to trust in me to get it done and I'm up to the challenge to get it done."

? Carter: "It seems as if when Coach [Dan] Reeves, who drafted you, when he was here, you threw the ball as effective or even better, and definitely more than you throw the ball now."

Vick: "When Reeves was here, I was 50 yards shy of 3,000 yards passing, and I was among top 15 in passing in NFL. Coach Reeves, he believed in me and gave me a chance to throw the football."

? Carter: "Do you ever sit back and say, 'Man, you know, I wish I had Chad Johnson. I wish I had a Randy Moss ...'"

Vick: "Or a Marvin Harrison. ... I always think about that, Cris. I always think, if I played in Indianapolis, what type of effect would I have on that team? Or what would I be able to do different? It's something I wish I could do for just one week."

This confirms my impression Vick is a self-centered and emotionally immature QB.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2006/10/19/1020falnot.html

The Steelers need to come out firing on Sunday - this Falcons team may be looking for an excuse to repeat last season's collapse if it gets down early.

tony hipchest
10-19-2006, 07:11 PM
when m. vick gave interviews to the N.Y. media before the giants game he invoked the name dan reeves. no one on sirius radio couldnt believe this story went unnoticed. there was thought that if these comment were made to the atlanta media it wouldve created a firestorm. many callers were curious why this story had been ignored. it looks like it is rearing its ugly head as vick continues to be the squeaky wheel. he seems to complain no matter if hes running around and "playing his game" or if he's passing to much. what need to be done to keep him happy?

hopefully a beatdown by the steelers can fan the flames. id love to see him and r. moss on the same team (assuming the patriots dont snag him 1st)

steelcurtain09
10-19-2006, 07:13 PM
Finally, Michael Vick now is pining away for the good old days when Dan Reeves coached the Falcons (until Vick's complaints helped get Reeves fired) and wishes he played QB for the Colts.

Vick told HBO's Cris Carter, on a segment of Inside the NFL, which aired Wednesday and will be replayed during the week that, "It's the worst I ever felt," after the Giants game. Vick was sacked a career-high seven times.

In the interview with the former NFL wide receiver, Vick also chimed in on several other subjects. Here are some excerpts:

? "You've got to throw the ball sometimes," Vick said. "You can't just line up and run the ball every time on first and second down. Teams key in on that and they have coaches, too. We're going to have to throw it more ... Coach [Jim Mora] is going have to trust in me to get it done and I'm up to the challenge to get it done."

? Carter: "It seems as if when Coach [Dan] Reeves, who drafted you, when he was here, you threw the ball as effective or even better, and definitely more than you throw the ball now."

Vick: "When Reeves was here, I was 50 yards shy of 3,000 yards passing, and I was among top 15 in passing in NFL. Coach Reeves, he believed in me and gave me a chance to throw the football."

? Carter: "Do you ever sit back and say, 'Man, you know, I wish I had Chad Johnson. I wish I had a Randy Moss ...'"

Vick: "Or a Marvin Harrison. ... I always think about that, Cris. I always think, if I played in Indianapolis, what type of effect would I have on that team? Or what would I be able to do different? It's something I wish I could do for just one week."

This confirms my impression Vick is a self-centered and emotionally immature QB.
I do not think that is completely fair of you to say that. Under his previous coach, Vick did well and actually had a good team to play with. Now, under Jim Mora, he has not won very much. Mora will not give Vick an offensive line to give him time to pass. With this Vick is very much like Roethlisberger. When he is pressured he will try to force the ball and be intercepted.

tony hipchest
10-19-2006, 07:49 PM
I do not think that is completely fair of you to say that. Under his previous coach, Vick did well and actually had a good team to play with. Now, under Jim Mora, he has not won very much. Mora will not give Vick an offensive line to give him time to pass. With this Vick is very much like Roethlisberger. When he is pressured he will try to force the ball and be intercepted.vick is a very expensive qb (possibly the highest paid qb in the game- im not sure) in regards of their o-line "you cant make chicken salad out of chicken shit" if all the $$$$ is tied up in 1 player. if hes not a pocket passer, he doesnt really need a pocket, does he?

ATL
10-19-2006, 08:09 PM
vick is a very expensive qb (possibly the highest paid qb in the game- im not sure) in regards of their o-line "you cant make chicken salad out of chicken shit" if all the $$$$ is tied up in 1 player. if hes not a pocket passer, he doesnt really need a pocket, does he? He got a lot of his money with signing bonus so he really doesn't hurt as bad towards the salary cap as people think. As far as his o-line being bad its because of the zone blocking scheme. Denver's o-line sucks for pass blocking also. This is really just the media trying to make something out of nothing.

Vick is the least of the Falcons worries.

Atlanta Dan
10-19-2006, 09:22 PM
I do not think that is completely fair of you to say that. Under his previous coach, Vick did well and actually had a good team to play with. Now, under Jim Mora, he has not won very much. Mora will not give Vick an offensive line to give him time to pass. With this Vick is very much like Roethlisberger. When he is pressured he will try to force the ball and be intercepted.

Having lived in Atlanta during the Reeves-Vick chapter of the Falcons dysfunctional history, what is galling to me about Vick claiming he flourished under Reeves is that Reeves thought Vick unreasonably delayed returning from his broken leg in 2003 and Vick not only publicly took exception to that but also went around Reeves to b**ch about the head coach to Arthur Blank, who embarassed himself and the franchise by personally pushing Vick around in his wheelchair when Vick was injured. If Vick now misses Reeves he should have requested Blank not to can Reeves in 2003.

The idea that someone with Vick's slovenly work ethic has the audacity to blame all his probems on his coaches and teammates while wishing he played for the Colts is laughable.

stillers4me
10-19-2006, 09:23 PM
:jawdrop: I can't imagine Ben whining like that.......

SteelBreeze
10-19-2006, 09:32 PM
He got a lot of his money with signing bonus so he really doesn't hurt as bad towards the salary cap as people think. As far as his o-line being bad its because of the zone blocking scheme. Denver's o-line sucks for pass blocking also. This is really just the media trying to make something out of nothing.

Vick is the least of the Falcons worries.

I hope your right about Vick being the least of your worries. But he really needs to think before he starts shooting his mouth off on a program like "Inside The NFL". I was shocked by his interview.He basicly said his receivers suck, the offensive coordinater can't call the game, and his head coach is no Dan Reeves. He also went on to say he wishes he could play for a different team. This is something you would expect to hear from TO or Randy Moss, and you know that whole story (cancers). And yea, the media is gonna eat that up. As you know, negativity spread by the media can seriously affect the locker room.

MattsMe
10-19-2006, 11:08 PM
? Carter: "Do you ever sit back and say, 'Man, you know, I wish I had Chad Johnson. I wish I had a Randy Moss ...'"

Vick: "Or a Marvin Harrison. ... I always think about that, Cris. I always think, if I played in Indianapolis, what type of effect would I have on that team? Or what would I be able to do different? It's something I wish I could do for just one week."

Indy already has a QB who publicly calls out his teammates, why would they need another one? :sofunny:

ATL
10-20-2006, 01:25 AM
Can you guys blame him after watching this play.... (and this kind of stuff happens a lot)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCQD7IMB1T4

Livinginthe past
10-20-2006, 05:19 AM
Yeah I think I can blame him for whining and crying.

A real leader takes the extra burden upon himself and shows the rest of his team, by example, how to raise their game.

Quality QB's like Carson, Ben R. and Tom Brady have had plenty of their own problems this year as regards passing offense and pass protection but do you hear them cry about it...pining for a previous coach?

Nope.

What they do is get their heads down and reapply themselves to an even greater degree, spend a little extra time at practice so that they can help their team.

You will notice nothing good every come of guys like Peyton Manning, Randy Moss, Jerry Porter throwing their teammates/coaches under the bus to the media.

Crying only helps when you're a kid.

NM

Atlanta Dan
10-20-2006, 09:25 AM
Can you guys blame him after watching this play.... (and this kind of stuff happens a lot)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCQD7IMB1T4

That YouTube drop certainly was no worse than Nate Washington's drop of a TD pass in the Bengals game, one of several blatant drops by Steeler WRs this year. I don't recall Ben then giving any interviews saying he wonders what it would be like to play for the Colts. Of course Ben has a coach he respects (fears?) while Vick knows that he can tell Mora to kiss off and Arthur Blank will support Vick.

As for not having a supporting cast worthy of his talents, Tom Brady is throwing to a horrible group of WRs but I do not hear Brady going on HBO to cry. Of course Bill Belichek is not Jim Mora with regard to earning the respect of his players.

If Vick has a problem with the coaches, offensive scheme, and his WRs so be it, but he needs to deal with it in the locker room, not on HBO.

If anyone thinks I am Vick bashing they are correct; I have spent the last 6 years in Atlanta listening to how this guy is the future of pro football and watching him rack up endorsements because he will make the occasional dazzling play with his legs while being a mediocre passer. A lot of what ails pro sports is reflected in someone like Vick getting hyped because of flash rather than substance and having an owner that has a crush on him.

stlrtruck
10-20-2006, 09:56 AM
Let's face it boys and girls. There are only a few outstanding players in this league any more. Players that don't throw the burden of responsibility on their team mates but instead take the blame when their own inabilities on specific plays or even the game affect the outcome.

But who cares about Vick? He's a falcon, not a Steeler and I could really care less about his mentality toward he's teammates, owner, and/or coaches.

However, what I would like to see is Vick get sacked 8,9, or even 10 times! That'll let him know that what he got against the Giants was nothing more than a warmup for this week's game!

ATL
10-20-2006, 01:34 PM
? "You've got to throw the ball sometimes," Vick said. "You can't just line up and run the ball every time on first and second down. Teams key in on that and they have coaches, too. We're going to have to throw it more ... Coach [Jim Mora] is going have to trust in me to get it done and I'm up to the challenge to get it done."

? Carter: "It seems as if when Coach [Dan] Reeves, who drafted you, when he was here, you threw the ball as effective or even better, and definitely more than you throw the ball now."

Vick: "When Reeves was here, I was 50 yards shy of 3,000 yards passing, and I was among top 15 in passing in NFL. Coach Reeves, he believed in me and gave me a chance to throw the football."

? Carter: "Do you ever sit back and say, 'Man, you know, I wish I had Chad Johnson. I wish I had a Randy Moss ...'"

Vick: "Or a Marvin Harrison. ... I always think about that, Cris. I always think, if I played in Indianapolis, what type of effect would I have on that team? Or what would I be able to do different? It's something I wish I could do for just one week."[/I]



What QB in the league doesn't want to throw the ball? That is what they get payed to do.
When Reeves was here we threw the ball more. Vick had 30 pass attempts a game and was a lot better.

I think the media was trying to bait vick into complaining about his team because before this I have never I MEAN NEVER seen vick complain about his team. He has always taken everything as his fault. Watch his press conferences.


Vick is right though, Dan Reeves was a better coach than mora & co. The problem I have with our offense now is it doesn't use any of Vick's talents. We don't throw any out routes even though he has a strong arm and he has told the coaches that is his favorite route. We don't do any dump off passing to the RB's even though Warrick Dunn is probably one of the best guys do dump the ball off to. Under Reeves we did all these things often and Vick was a hell of a lot better and more dangerous.

sumo
10-20-2006, 01:57 PM
It's all about Vick -- they are having a winning season, they have a lot of talent and all he can say is "what if I played at Indy"??? - what a punk to say something like this on a national tv show in the middle of the season - It's all about Vick -- all Vick all the time -- he's gonna be sitting out games by week 10 anyway -- he always gets injured, so he can sit on the bench and wonder more about INDY -- If I could only play at INDY.....

ATL
10-20-2006, 02:06 PM
It's all about Vick -- they are having a winning season, they have a lot of talent and all he can say is "what if I played at Indy"??? - what a punk to say something like this on a national tv show in the middle of the season - It's all about Vick -- all Vick all the time -- he's gonna be sitting out games by week 10 anyway -- he always gets injured, so he can sit on the bench and wonder more about INDY -- If I could only play at INDY.....

He said he only wanted to play there for a week to see what it's like. What QB in the league wouldn't want to play for Indy for a week to see what it is like? With those WR's and the Oline and the QB gets to pass the ball as much as they do. Its the media that is all about vick when the falcons are winning. Its very rare that Vick takes credit for a win.

Atlanta Dan
10-20-2006, 05:56 PM
He said he only wanted to play there for a week to see what it's like. What QB in the league wouldn't want to play for Indy for a week to see what it is like? With those WR's and the Oline and the QB gets to pass the ball as much as they do. Its the media that is all about vick when the falcons are winning. Its very rare that Vick takes credit for a win.

Actually I think at least 2 QBs (Ben and Tom Brady for 2 examples) do not want to play for Indy for a week (especially during a playofff week when Indy always chokes :toofunny: )

But even if a QB wonders what it would be like to play for Indy (which in Vick's case would presumably require him to break down film and learn how to throw to a receiver coming out a break on a pattern like Manning does) only a diva QB lacks the maturity and cannot keep his mouth shut about his wishes.

As for Vick not taking the credit for a win, you only need to go back to last season when Vick crowed about having arrived as a passer when the Falcons beat the Dolphins to refute that claim.

This guy's act is wearing thin in Atlanta.

MACH1
10-20-2006, 06:46 PM
Vick is incapable of calling his own plays and reading defenses like Manning, if he were to play at Indy they would be a very average team with that lack of a running game that Indy has. :popcorn:

ATL
10-21-2006, 12:34 AM
Actually I think at least 2 QBs (Ben and Tom Brady for 2 examples) do not want to play for Indy for a week (especially during a playofff week when Indy always chokes :toofunny: )

But even if a QB wonders what it would be like to play for Indy (which in Vick's case would presumably require him to break down film and learn how to throw to a receiver coming out a break on a pattern like Manning does) only a diva QB lacks the maturity and cannot keep his mouth shut about his wishes.

As for Vick not taking the credit for a win, you only need to go back to last season when Vick crowed about having arrived as a passer when the Falcons beat the Dolphins to refute that claim.

This guy's act is wearing thin in Atlanta.

Did you notice the rarely? anyways he didn't take credit for that win he just told the media to get off his back about him not being a passer...

Ben and Brady don't play behind a bad Oline. Ben would be a terrible qb if he played for atlanta, i've seen what he does when he has protection issues. What was his QB rating before the chiefs game?

GeorgiaBulldawg
10-21-2006, 01:59 AM
At least Vick wears helmets when riding motorcycles :jawdrop:

tony hipchest
10-21-2006, 02:05 AM
At least Vick wears helmets when riding motorcycles :jawdrop:

:confused:

vick has herpes and has given women herpes.:dang:

do you think he's smart enough to wear a jimmy hat? :busted:

atleast bens accident wounds were curable and have healed. good luck with the herpes. :sofunny:

Atlanta Dan
10-21-2006, 08:57 AM
Did you notice the rarely? anyways he didn't take credit for that win he just told the media to get off his back about him not being a passer...

Ben and Brady don't play behind a bad Oline. Ben would be a terrible qb if he played for atlanta, i've seen what he does when he has protection issues. What was his QB rating before the chiefs game?

Ron Mexico has been what he is for 6 years now - blaming his "supporting cast" for his shortcomings is a cop out.

It is not the fault of his O-line that Vick will not get on the headset and talk to his O-coordinator during the game (if you listen to Atlanta sports talk or have observed him while watching the games you know he goes and sits on the bench and does not interact with his teammates, as evidenced by the classic shots where he hid under a parka and looked like Nanook of the North during the Chicago game last season), has never learned to work on his footwork or throwing motion and become a more proficient passer, and will not put in the time in the film room to learn how to read defenses. According to the Atlanta papers this week, Vick is not even allowed to call audibles - hardly a ringing endorsement of his play calling skills or mastery of the playbook.

As for the claim Ben would be a terrible QB if he played for ATL, how do you know? You can only measure a player by his record - Ben has not done too poorly.

As for other QBs never having to suffer frompoor offensive lines, you must not follow the Patriots too much. The Patriots OL was decimated in 2004 but Brady managed to carry on somehow.

Vick and his supporters need to quit making excuses for him.

floodcitygirl
10-21-2006, 09:28 AM
:confused:

vick has herpes and has given women herpes.:dang:

do you think he's smart enough to wear a jimmy hat? :busted:

atleast bens accident wounds were curable and have healed. good luck with the herpes. :sofunny: EWWWWWHHHH! :toofunny:

83-Steelers-43
10-21-2006, 09:43 AM
Dan, you being in Atlanta and reading the local media, what do you think? Falcons give this guy (Vick) two more years tops?

ATL
10-21-2006, 11:09 AM
As for the claim Ben would be a terrible QB if he played for ATL, how do you know? You can only measure a player by his record - Ben has not done too poorly.

Vick has never had a losing season starting at QB.

stillers4me
10-21-2006, 11:39 AM
Vick has never had a losing season starting at QB.


Big Ben...Season One: one game away from the SuperBowl (winning season)

Big Ben ...Season Two: ding ding ding!!! SuperBowl winning QB!!! (ummm...winning season)

Big Ben...Season Three: in progress........:jammin:

Dynasty
10-21-2006, 12:02 PM
Ok, in summary of this entire thread, Vick sucks, will get owned by the Steelers amazing D, then will go whine about wanting Dan Reeves back after the game.

klick81
10-21-2006, 12:28 PM
At least Vick wears helmets when riding motorcycles :jawdrop:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b272/klick81/untitled-1.jpg

Atlanta Dan
10-21-2006, 12:37 PM
Vick has never had a losing season starting at QB.

No, but he led the charge downhill when the Falcons collapsed in 2005 (2-6 the second half of last season) and went 8-8, admitting that as team leader he mailed it in when Carolina humiliated the Falcons in the last game of the season.

I am not saying Vick is a terrible player but his accomplishments do not match up with his media hype and endorsements.

As Dr. Z. summed it up yesterday:

Good question from Chris of Atlanta. Are the Falcons cursed because they have Vick at QB. Wouldn't it be better to have someone who can accurately throw the ball, and use Vick much the way the Saints use Bush? First of all, we don't know how good a pass catcher he'd be, and that's what gives Bush the extra dimension. I've always felt that all the adulation the guy gets, from people such as ESPN's Michael Irvin, just hinders his development as a QB. I mean, how many other issues arouse such passion, on both sides of the Vick issue? But here's the biggest factor of all. He is a personal favorite of the owner, Arthur Blank, who would never let anyone mess with his fair haired boy. It's a terrible curse ... meddling owners.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/dr_z/10/20/drZ.oct20.mailbag/2.html

That opinion is shared by Washington Post national NFL writer, Mark Maske, who wrote this week:

Vick Should Worry About Throwing Ball Better, Not More Often
Michael Vick needs to purchase a mirror.

And then look in it.

The Atlanta Falcons quarterback said in an interview with HBO this week that the Falcons have "got to throw the ball sometimes." He said that Falcons Coach Jim Mora is going to "have to trust in me to get it done" and suggested that former coach Dan Reeves perhaps trusted him more as a passer. He said he often wonders what it would be like to have a receiver like Marvin Harrison on his team or to spend just a week on a team like the Indianapolis Colts.

This, remember, is coming from a quarterback who's completing 50.4 percent of his throws this season and is the NFL's 28th-rated passer.

Maybe if he threw the ball a little bit more effectively, he would be asked to throw it a little bit more often.

As a fan I may be biased but I do not believe Zimmerman or Maske can be seen as knee jerk Vick detractors.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/nflinsider/

Atlanta Dan
10-21-2006, 12:56 PM
Dan, you being in Atlanta and reading the local media, what do you think? Falcons give this guy (Vick) two more years tops?

Hard to say what the Falcons will do. If they do not make the playoffs this year I think Mora is on the hot seat. He brought in Knapp to install whatever it is they are using as an offensive scheme (it is not the West Coast offense) with both Vick and Warrick Dunn bi***ing about it in public since the players are allowed by Blank to run the Falcons asylum (very much a Danny Snyder/Jerry Jones type owner here).

If Mora goes I do not know who they could bring in with enough stature to tell Blank that the franchise needs to tell Vick he answers to the HC . With Matt Schaub gone (I doubt they can put that much $$ into the QB position in 2007 with their obligations to Vick) I do not know if Blank or the Falcons fan base would agree to some sort of trade where the Falcons would start over and get a barrel of draft picks (a Herschel Walker to the Vikings type deal) from some team that would be willing to roll the dice on Vick.

I cannot imagine they will pay Schaub what he will bring on the open market, so with the $$ Vick has ben paid he will be around as they muddle into the playoffs every once in a awhile until he suffers another inevitable serious injury in the next couple of years.

The Falcons will not win a Super Bowl with Vick - at some point a Super Bowl team needs to win a playoff game through passing.

ATL
10-21-2006, 02:06 PM
No, but he led the charge downhill when the Falcons collapsed in 2005 (2-6 the second half of last season) and went 8-8, admitting that as team leader he mailed it in when Carolina humiliated the Falcons in the last game of the season.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about because our offense wasn't the problem the second half of last season. Actually our offense was pretty damn good. It was our defense being ranked 26th and being last in avg yds per carry against the run that caused the second half melt down last season.

Atlanta Dan
10-21-2006, 06:06 PM
You obviously don't know what you are talking about because our offense wasn't the problem the second half of last season. Actually our offense was pretty damn good. It was our defense being ranked 26th and being last in avg yds per carry against the run that caused the second half melt down last season.


Spare me the personal attacks - unlike you I am linking to the opinions of football writers to support my opinions. I have been posting on this board for a while and have been following the Falcons historically dismal performance since 1980, so I respectfully disagree with your view that since I am not ready to enshrine Vick in Canton I do not know what I am talking about.

With regard to your "pretty damn good" offense, even setting aside the woeful passing ranking of 27th, it ranked 12th in total yards and 14th in points scored in 2005 http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-SCORING/2005/regular

Not horrible, but "pretty damn good" is not the term usually associated with such middle of the pack rankings.

As for my opinion that Vick quit during the Carolina game, here is another writer's opinion:

Michael Vick: A runner masquerading as a QB? The debate rages

Vick ranked 25th in passing efficiency last season, sandwiched between two players who are rarely mentioned in the same breath: Josh McCown and Brooks Bollinger. A stat that's much easier to understand didn't go in Vick's favor, either -- the Falcons lost six of their last eight games and missed the playoffs, one year after reaching the NFC championship game.

Vick even conceded that he didn't give his best effort in the season finale, a humiliating 44-11 loss to Carolina after the Falcons already had been eliminated from the playoffs. While he wasn't the only one who packed it in that day, the quarterback must set the tone. Vick apologized to his teammates during training camp and vowed to give an effort befitting the Superman tattoo on his hand.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-falcons-vickschallenge&prov=ap&type=lgns

And here are some more facts for you:

Lifetime passer ratings:

Kordell Stewart 70.7
Michael Vick 75.0 (it is 66.0 this year)

After six years it is not unreasonable to wonder if Vick is ever going to become a complete QB - competent passing is part of the job description for a QB in today's NFL.

The Falcons fired QB coach Mike Johnson after the 2005 season; I guess Mora will be the next human sacrifice on the altar of Vick's greatness.

NM

83-Steelers-43
10-21-2006, 06:08 PM
After six years it is not unreasonable to wonder if Vick is ever going to become a complete QB - competent passing is part of the job description for a QB in today's NFL.

ZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!!!!! :cheers: :wink02:

Vick = A media darling and even they are starting to come to their senses. Let me know when he learns how to throw the ball to a moving target.

83-Steelers-43
10-22-2006, 07:26 AM
And here are some more facts for you:

Lifetime passer ratings:

Kordell Stewart 70.7
Michael Vick 75.0 (it is 66.0 this year)



Ed Bouchette on the Steelers: A weekly look inside the team, the issues, the questions
Before there was Michael Vick, there was Kordell ... and he could have been better
Sunday, October 22, 2006

Michael Vick might be the best running quarterback in NFL history, yet that's only because the Steelers tried to develop Kordell Stewart more as a passer.

Stewart was every bit the runner Vick is today. Anyone who saw his 80-yard touchdown run in Carolina in 1996 knows it. That's still the longest touchdown run by a quarterback in NFL history.

The Steelers, though, did not want Stewart to run as often, and he complied. He bought into the argument that a running quarterback won't last long in the NFL unless he develops as a passer. They were so determined to keep him in the pocket that after Stewart ran for a touchdown one day in Jacksonville, he was greeted along the sideline by coordinator Kevin Gilbride, who lectured him for not throwing into the end zone rather than running.

"I do think we put some restrictions on Kordell," said Steelers receiver Hines Ward, a rookie in Stewart's second year as a starter (1998). "Just let Kordell play and have fun and not worry about stats. I think people look into stats a little too much."

Ward witnessed the work that went into transforming Stewart into a pocket passer.

"He heard so much of it that when there were plays where he could have run the ball, he sat in the pocket trying to be that pocket passer rather than going out and being Kordell Stewart," Ward said.

They all may have been right, that a quarterback will not lead his team to a championship by running more than throwing. Donovan McNabb has transformed his game in Philadelphia to where he runs less. McNabb ran 86 times in 2000, just 41 times in 2004. He has run 17 times in six games this season.

Even some of the great running quarterbacks -- Fran Tarkenton, Steve Young, Billy Kilmer -- were accomplished passers. Joe Kapp, considered by many a successful running quarterback, led the Minnesota Vikings to the NFC championship and a berth in Super Bowl IV. But, in that 1969 season, Kapp rushed 22 times for only 104 yards and no touchdowns. He passed 237 times for 1,726 yards and 19 scores.

Stewart averaged 5.2 yards a run in his career, including a high of 5.8 in his final season as their starter (2001). He ran 96 times that season for 537 yards and five touchdowns. He completed 60.2 percent of his passes that season, when he made the Pro Bowl and the Steelers went 13-3.

Compare that to Vick. He averages 6.9 yards in his career on the ground, 6.7 yards per pass attempt. He never has hit 3,000 yards passing -- Stewart eclipsed that mark twice -- and his best completion rate was 56.4 in 2004.

At his pace this season, he'll rush for more than 1,000 yards, something no NFL quarterback has done.

"Last year, they wanted him as a pocket passer, this year, they said we're going to your strengths," Ward said. "That's why they've done a tremendous job."

But have they? They are 3-2 after the New York Giants sacked Vick seven times last Sunday. Atlanta is third in the NFC South Division behind New Orleans (5-1) and Carolina (4-2). That may have nothing to do with Vick; the Falcons might be 2-3 or 1-4 if he weren't running so much.

There's another thing for coaches to consider when they buy into the running-quarterback format for their offense. Nobody wants to play wide receiver for a quarterback like that. The Falcons never will attract a good wide receiver in free agency as long as Vick is their quarterback.

They sent a first-round pick to Buffalo in a trade for Peerless Price after he caught 94 passes for the Bills in 2002. Over the next two seasons with Vick as his quarterback, Price averaged 54.5 receptions.

Defensive players and coaches often fear a quarterback like Vick. They can't defend him the way they do other quarterbacks. They constantly have to worry about him taking off, whether he seems hemmed in under a heavy rush or if there's no one open.

That does not mean Vick is more effective or dangerous as a quarterback than, say, Carson Palmer or Ben Roethlisberger. It's just that he does it differently. Different doesn't always make it better.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06295/731827-66.stm

Elvis
10-22-2006, 08:24 AM
:tt02: :tt02: :banana: :chicken: :cheer:
Here's to all you Fulcon fans...:flap:
I guess I should be used to this by now, but when these panzy opponent fans come in here and try to start their :chicken: around. then I just cant help myself.. Fulcons fans come back after the game and let us know how you feel ok? I will give you a hug and try to console you the best I can..... :banging: this is what Vick is gonna feel like around 5 p.m. this afternoon...:jawdrop: :wave: JUST BRING IT FALCONS!!!!

ATL
10-22-2006, 10:42 AM
Spare me the personal attacks - unlike you I am linking to the opinions of football writers to support my opinions. I have been posting on this board for a while and have been following the Falcons historically dismal performance since 1980, so I respectfully disagree with your view that since I am not ready to enshrine Vick in Canton I do not know what I am talking about.

With regard to your "pretty damn good" offense, even setting aside the woeful passing ranking of 27th, it ranked 12th in total yards and 14th in points scored in 2005 http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-SCORING/2005/regular

Not horrible, but "pretty damn good" is not the term usually associated with such middle of the pack rankings.


You link "Opinions" of football writers. Might as well link to other people on the message board. I respect your opinion I think its just misguided.

Actually IMO that is pretty damn good considering our Defense kept putting our offense in the hole and our offense didn't see the field too much.

I never said Vick was a Hall of Famer, he does have problems and things to work on, but IMO he is the least of the Falcons worries right now and was the least of our worries last year.

Cry Me a River
10-26-2006, 07:50 AM
You want whining? Check the tape of Cowher's post-game press conference! I thought I'd need a wet suit for all the tears.

Atlanta Dan
10-26-2006, 08:10 AM
You want whining? Check the tape of Cowher's post-game press conference! I thought I'd need a wet suit for all the tears.

The game was over 4 days ago sweetheart - go troll somewhere else

Moderators - do we really need to deal with out of town guests such as this chump (2 posts - looks like he joined up this morning) who contribute nothing to Steelers discussions but are just trolling away after their team is in the rear view mirror on the schedule?

I favor the ignore button but the trolling on this board is getting a lot worse and is defnitely impacting the quality of this board - I would respectfully suggest the moderators exercise some quality control and step up the bans for posters that add absolutely nothing to the discussions but simply submit empty rants such as those posted by Big Ben's Bike Helmet and Cry Me A River.

Cry Me a River
10-26-2006, 08:44 AM
When did Cowher turn into Dick Vermeil?

BTW Danny Boy, you sound just like him. Need a tissue?

Atlanta Dan
10-26-2006, 08:57 AM
When did Cowher turn into Dick Vermeil?

BTW Danny Boy, you sound just like him. Need a tissue?

Thanks for proving my point - welcome to my ignore list.

Moderators - can you get this poster off the board - he adds nothing to substantive discussions.

Cry Me a River
10-26-2006, 12:10 PM
I aways wondered what those yellow towels were for. Now I know.

tony hipchest
10-26-2006, 12:41 PM
I aways wondered what those yellow towels were for. Now I know.
:coffee:
what a coincidence. i always wondered what those short yellow buses were for and NOW i know!

klick81
10-26-2006, 12:48 PM
:coffee:
what a coincidence. i always wondered what those short yellow buses were for and NOW i know!

OWNED.

Lyn
10-26-2006, 12:51 PM
LOL I sure would like to know what those plastic looking bands on the players arms are and what they are for.



:popcorn:

Cry Me a River
10-27-2006, 02:11 AM
:coffee:
what a coincidence. i always wondered what those short yellow buses were for and NOW i know!

Yeah. They allow you to get an education.