PDA

View Full Version : Ben could practice today


Big D
10-25-2006, 09:38 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06298/732710-66.stm
I think this is complete ignorance

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
10-25-2006, 09:56 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06298/732710-66.stm
I think this is complete ignorance

I have to agree. Ben has physically had the shit beat out of him in the past 4 months why take the risk sit his ass down for Sunday's game. I found this article on MSNBC and I have to agree with what the guy says....

Steelers shouldn?t risk Big Ben?s future
Mike Celizic
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15409352/

Sit quarterback for awhile, no matter what doctors say

Bill Cowher says it?s up to the doctors, which he and the Steelers organization say is the only thing they can say. But that?s not really true. They could say something else. They could say, ?Big Ben isn?t playing this week, and maybe not next week or the week after. He?s not going to play until he?s totally healthy.?

They won?t say that, because it?s the same as saying, ?Our quarterback?s health is more important than our season ? honest.? And that, in the National Football League, isn?t the way business is conducted.

Maybe it should be, though. Because no matter how Ben Roethlisberger does on the neurological tests that will determine his fitness for a return to combat, if he gets hit hard again so close to his most recent concussion, he could be on his way out of the game. That?s the way it works: If you suffer multiple concussions in a short period of time, the odds of serious long-term problems skyrocket. And every time you get concussed, it gets a little easier for it to happen again with the next hit.

Most of us never have to worry about such things. If we have a freak accident and hit our head, we can go right back to work as soon as the doctors say it?s okay, because we don?t have to worry about it happening again. But football players are always one play away from the next big hit. And do you really want to put a player as valuable as Roethlisberger back in harm?s way so quickly?

Caution dictates that you sit him down for weeks or a month or more, let Charlie Batch, who is a pretty darned good back-up, carry the load, and see if you can get lucky. But football isn?t about caution. And no one willingly risks a season to protect a player who may or may not get hurt again and suffer serious damage to what Woody Allen called his second-favorite organ.

I?d hate to be Cowher right now, just as I?d hate to be one of the doctors who has to decide when Ben Roethlisberger?s twice-concussed brain is ready to stand up against blitzing linebackers and blind-side hits.

On the one hand, there?s the short-term prospect of a season that isn?t yet beyond rescue. On the other, there?s Roethlisberger?s long-term prospects of health and mental acuity. What?s more important, this week?s game, or living without headaches and nausea and scrambled thoughts 15 years from now?

It was a lot easier in the good old days when you cracked an ammonia cap to revive players who had been knocked out and sent them out to get whacked in the head again, joking afterwards about how goofy the old gunslinger was when he got his bell rung.

Now that we say soberly that a player was concussed ? a technical term for a form of brain damage ? rather than laughing about how he was ?dinged,? it?s not as easy to just point him in the right direction and send him back into the fray. Not this week and not next week.

But that?s the decision facing the Steelers. Roethlisberger, who the Steelers hope is their ticket to many years of contending for yet more Super Bowl titles, was knocked out Sunday for the second time in four months. He suffered the first concussion in that motorcycle accident last summer, in which his head, unprotected by a helmet, had a close encounter with an automobile?s windshield, with the windshield winning the decision. Now, four months later, he?s been knocked out again.

Doctors know now that when you suffer multiple concussions in relatively short time frames, your risk of long-term damage starts to increase exponentially. We?ve seen it happen enough to other great athletes to know it?s not a possibility to be taken lightly.

Steve Young and Troy Aikman both cut short their careers because of post-concussion syndrome. Wayne Chrebet, the Jets? receiver, retired not long ago for the same reason, just as another Jet, Wesley Walker, had done a football generation earlier. In the NHL, Eric Lindros? career was nearly ended by multiple concussions. Pat Lafontaine, a brilliant NHL forward, also had to retire early because he couldn?t afford to take another hit in the head.

Neuroscience has progressed at a rapid clip, and now post-concussion syndrome is well established as a very real danger to anyone who participates in contact sports. Part of the progress has been the development of tests to determine whether an athlete is still suffering lingering effects of a concussion.

Story continues below ↓
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
advertisement
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those are the tests that Roethlisberger is undergoing this week. If the doctors say he passes them, Cowher will put his franchise player back on the field come Sunday. And he?ll be able to say with total justification that the decision was based on sound medical science.

The science is sound. But there?s another fact that?s also undeniable: defenders are going to be primed to hit Roethlisberger just as hard as they can in the hopes of putting him on the sidelines again. And he will be hit again. And if his head bounces off the turf again, he could be out for a long, long time.

So, what do you do? You feel you can?t live without him, but if you throw him back out there, you could end up doing just that. You want him to stay safe, but you can?t protect him from the game he plays, not by sending him out to play it.

In an ideal world, you hold him out this week and maybe next week and the week after; you make sure he?s got plenty of distance between his next start and his last concussion. You do that because you don?t want him to leave early like Aikman and Young and Chrebet and Walker and so many others.

In the NFL, the thinking is you send a guy out to play if the doctors say it's OK. That?s what Cowher and the Steelers will probably do with Big Ben.

What would you do if it were your quarterback?

Or, more to the point, what would you do if he were your kid?

Big D
10-25-2006, 10:00 AM
I think its cowhers thinking of wanting to win right now. I think he's not considering the future of his quarterback. He's more concerned about today rather then tommorow

HometownGal
10-25-2006, 10:09 AM
Doctors know now that when you suffer multiple concussions in relatively short time frames, your risk of long-term damage starts to increase exponentially. We?ve seen it happen enough to other great athletes to know it?s not a possibility to be taken lightly.


Nothing could be farther from the truth. I'm glad to see that someone finally gets it. :thumbsup:

You just don't play around with injuries to the head and in this case, two injuries to the head/brain in a relatively short period of time. That is insane.

What would you do if it were your quarterback?

Or, more to the point, what would you do if he were your kid?

I'd sit his ass down for not just one week, but several. The after-effects of a concussion sometimes don't present themselves for weeks - even months - after the injury(ies). We have a very viable option here in playing Batch so why throw caution to the wind, especially when it involves your franchise QB? :dang:

This past spring/summer, my 6 year old grandson had 2 concussions within 3 months of each other - one was from losing control of his scooter going down a hill and going head and face first into a wall and the other was a hard fall on his head at his Tang Soo Do dojong. His pediatrician stressed to us how important it was to hold him out of contact sports for at least 6 months and that is exactly what we did. He was less than thrilled that he couldn't play soccer or sign up for football, but his present and future health was far more important to us than his achievements in sports activities.

HometownGal
10-25-2006, 10:15 AM
I think its cowhers thinking of wanting to win right now. I think he's not considering the future of his quarterback. He's more concerned about today rather then tommorow

Sorry, D - I don't believe for a second that Cowher feels that way. He is a genuinely honorable man and a player's coach who truly cares about the welfare of all of his players - that is one of the reasons why so many guys want to play on a Cowher-led team. I think this is more along the lines of Ben not wanting to suck it up and swallow his pride for a few weeks, trying to convince Cowher that he is just fine, in combination with NFL-affiliated MD's walking that thin line by not wanting to piss off the athlete, but being relatively comfortable that there is nothing of immediate concern to protect their own arses. The MDs who are affiliated with the NFL aren't consulted for their long-term prognosis - more of a quick fix type of thing.

Big D
10-25-2006, 10:17 AM
Sorry, D - I don't believe for a second that Cowher feels that way. He is a genuinely honorable man and a player's coach who truly cares about the welfare of all of his players - that is one of the reasons why so many guys want to play on a Cowher-led team. I think this is more along the lines of Ben not wanting to suck it up and swallow his pride for a few weeks, trying to convince Cowher that he is just fine, in combination with NFL-affiliated MD's walking that thin line by not wanting to piss off the athlete, but being relatively comfortable that there is nothing of immediate concern to protect their own arses. The MDs who are affiliated with the NFL aren't consulted for their long-term prognosis - more of a quick fix type of thing.

then why does cowher continue to rush bens comeback. He could have easily sat out the first 3 games to recoop. There isnt a reason in the world ben should start this sunday

stlrtruck
10-25-2006, 10:55 AM
At first, and to some extent I still do feel, that Ben should play this weekend. He's getting into a leadership role and he's getting his groove back! However, the more I think about it, is one season worth this kid's future? I have to say no it's not and that if sitting him costs us this season, then so be it but not at the stake of only having him at QB for only a few years.
However, I do believe that Batch is a more than capable QB to lead us through the next 2-3 games and not just lead us but bring us to victory! He's proven that.
Regardless of who starts, the rally begins in the ally in Oakland!

Atlanta Dan
10-25-2006, 11:28 AM
Sorry, D - I don't believe for a second that Cowher feels that way. He is a genuinely honorable man and a player's coach who truly cares about the welfare of all of his players - that is one of the reasons why so many guys want to play on a Cowher-led team. I think this is more along the lines of Ben not wanting to suck it up and swallow his pride for a few weeks, trying to convince Cowher that he is just fine, in combination with NFL-affiliated MD's walking that thin line by not wanting to piss off the athlete, but being relatively comfortable that there is nothing of immediate concern to protect their own arses. The MDs who are affiliated with the NFL aren't consulted for their long-term prognosis - more of a quick fix type of thing.


That is why Cowher needs to step in as a player's coach. Team doctors are not going to get in the way of a player wanting to play or the teams wanting the player to get back on the field (he had issues, but does anyone else remember Barry Foster going to his own doc, who backed him up, when Foster thought the Steelers were forcing him back from an injury?) So forget the doctor sitting Ben down.

As for Ben, he obviously has no inner circle of confidants who can restrain him from engaging in self-destructive behavior, with Exhibit A being the helmetless motorcycle riding. So nobody else can tell Ben what to do and Ben is going to fight to play, for reasons that may include not only the "play hurt" NFL mentality but Cowher having questioned the extent of some of Ben's claimed injuries in the past.

So that leaves it to Cowher, who already has behaved erratically this season by allowing his coaching status to fester, not having the team ready to go in preseason (I know the games do not count but 0-4 was a bad leading indicator), failing to instill team discipline (the taunting penalty on Sunday led by team leader Hines Ward showed this team is tuning him out) , and failing to have faith in Batch by rushing Ben back for Jax.

I suppose you should never risk a player's health for one game, but this is not rushing Rod Woodson or T.O. back from leg injuries for the Super Bowl; it is a game against the dregs of the league during a season that is pretty much shot anyhow. Why you would potentially risk your franchise QB's career is beyond me and does not reflect well on Cowher's concern for his players, even if they will only be his players for a little over 2 more months.

Preacher
10-25-2006, 11:39 AM
Sorry, D - I don't believe for a second that Cowher feels that way. He is a genuinely honorable man and a player's coach who truly cares about the welfare of all of his players - that is one of the reasons why so many guys want to play on a Cowher-led team. I think this is more along the lines of Ben not wanting to suck it up and swallow his pride for a few weeks, trying to convince Cowher that he is just fine, in combination with NFL-affiliated MD's walking that thin line by not wanting to piss off the athlete, but being relatively comfortable that there is nothing of immediate concern to protect their own arses. The MDs who are affiliated with the NFL aren't consulted for their long-term prognosis - more of a quick fix type of thing.

Hey...

You are right. Cowher is not a put his people in jepordy like that. It may be Ben's immortality stepping in again.

It may also be the point that he really didn't have a concussion. Who knows.

I just hope that he FULLY HEALS before he plays.. and doesn't act stupid. After all, we don't need another Mike Webster on our hearts and minds 15 years from now.

MACH1
10-25-2006, 11:52 AM
I'd at least sit him for the jokeland game, whether he could go or not. Batch should be able to handle the duties for this game.

memphissteelergirl
10-25-2006, 12:04 PM
I'd at least sit him for the jokeland game, whether he could go or not. Batch should be able to handle the duties for this game.


AMEN!!

HometownGal
10-25-2006, 12:29 PM
then why does cowher continue to rush bens comeback. He could have easily sat out the first 3 games to recoop. There isnt a reason in the world ben should start this sunday

Could you please provide me with a link to any story out there in which Bill Cowher gives any indication, or states directly, that he wants to "rush", expedite, hurry up, etc. Ben's comeback, either before the start of the season, after his appendectomy or this week after the hit on him in the Atlanta game. I'd appreciate it - thanks! :smile:

HometownGal
10-25-2006, 12:58 PM
That is why Cowher needs to step in as a player's coach. Team doctors are not going to get in the way of a player wanting to play or the teams wanting the player to get back on the field (he had issues, but does anyone else remember Barry Foster going to his own doc, who backed him up, when Foster thought the Steelers were forcing him back from an injury?) So forget the doctor sitting Ben down.

As for Ben, he obviously has no inner circle of confidants who can restrain him from engaging in self-destructive behavior, with Exhibit A being the helmetless motorcycle riding. So nobody else can tell Ben what to do and Ben is going to fight to play, for reasons that may include not only the "play hurt" NFL mentality but Cowher having questioned the extent of some of Ben's claimed injuries in the past.

So that leaves it to Cowher, who already has behaved erratically this season by allowing his coaching status to fester, not having the team ready to go in preseason (I know the games do not count but 0-4 was a bad leading indicator), failing to instill team discipline (the taunting penalty on Sunday led by team leader Hines Ward showed this team is tuning him out) , and failing to have faith in Batch by rushing Ben back for Jax.

I suppose you should never risk a player's health for one game, but this is not rushing Rod Woodson or T.O. back from leg injuries for the Super Bowl; it is a game against the dregs of the league during a season that is pretty much shot anyhow. Why you would potentially risk your franchise QB's career is beyond me and does not reflect well on Cowher's concern for his players, even if they will only be his players for a little over 2 more months.

Dan - while I appreciate the time and thought you took to post the above, I cannot make a legitimate response to your post at this point in time. "May haves" just don't cut it with me. We don't know that Bill Cowher played any part in "rushing" Ben back and until I see concrete evidence of the same, I can't realsitically address anything on this subject that relates to Cowher. Let me say for the record, though, that on your points concerning Ben, I agree with the majority of them, again - with the exception of your opinion regarding Cowher "questioning Ben's injuries". That is your opinion and while I respect it, I simply do not agree with it as I've never heard anything coming out of Bill Cowher's mouth to substantiate your beliefs. Also for the record, I disagree that Bill Cowher has behaved "erratically" this season - just my opinion. :smile:

Atlanta Dan
10-25-2006, 01:14 PM
Dan - while I appreciate the time and thought you took to post the above, I cannot make a legitimate response to your post at this point in time. "May haves" just don't cut it with me. We don't know that Bill Cowher played any part in "rushing" Ben back and until I see concrete evidence of the same, I can't realsitically address anything on this subject that relates to Cowher. Let me say for the record, though, that on your points concerning Ben, I agree with the majority of them, again - with the exception of your opinion regarding Cowher "questioning Ben's injuries". That is your opinion and while I respect it, I simply do not agree with it as I've never heard anything coming out of Bill Cowher's mouth to substantiate your beliefs. Also for the record, I disagree that Bill Cowher has behaved "erratically" this season - just my opinion. :smile:

Hometown Gal - thanks for the thoughtful reponse.

I specifically am referring to Cowher and Ben having public differences of opinions on: "broken toes" after the AFC championship loss; the extent of Ben's knee injury that sideline him last November, and whether or not Ben's thumb was broken in December or January last season. I could dredge up the articles but Ben and Cowher were explicitly in disagrement on the extent of those injuries and it was not Cowher who was claiming the injuries were greater than Ben was claiming.

Black@Gold Forever32
10-25-2006, 01:31 PM
If Ben is cleared to play he plays. I think if Ben had a major concussion then I don't think there would be no chance in hell of Ben playing this Sunday or next Sunday for that matter. But from all that has been reported. It sounds that Ben had a slight concussion. Yes its not an injury to take lightly. But I trust the doctors and the Steelers organization are acting in Ben's best interest.

steela fan 4eva
10-25-2006, 01:49 PM
I heard that right after Ben's motorcycle accident he was fitted for a special helmet like the one Troy has. He didn't like the way it fit. Wonder if he regrets that now?!!!

HometownGal
10-25-2006, 02:08 PM
Hometown Gal - thanks for the thoughtful reponse.

I specifically am referring to Cowher and Ben having public differences of opinions on: "broken toes" after the AFC championship loss; the extent of Ben's knee injury that sideline him last November, and whether or not Ben's thumb was broken in December or January last season. I could dredge up the articles but Ben and Cowher were explicitly in disagrement on the extent of those injuries and it was not Cowher who was claiming the injuries were greater than Ben was claiming.

Thanks, Dan - and a hearty thank YOU for being so respectful in return. :smile: :hug:

I do remember the differences in opinion between Ben and Cowher on the broken toes, knee and thumb injuries, but I also clearly remember many people, including the sports media and fans, as well, questioning the extent and validity of those injuries, so at this point - who knows what is fact and what is fiction? I really wasn't referring to those incidents - I am referring more to yours and Big D's inferences that it is Cowher who was and is "rushing Ben back" after his serious accident in June and most recently, his second concussion suffered on Sunday afternoon. Witnessing Bill Cowher's closeness with his players, as well as his concern for them not only as athletes, but as human beings over the last 15 years, tells me in my gut that there is no way this man would rush anyone back from any injury until they themselves felt they were ready or led him to believe they were ready to jump back in. In addition, If Cowher hadn't played the game himself at one time, it is possible I might be swayed here, but again - I just don't see Cowher rushing anyone back from an injury - especially not the franchise QB - to win a football game. That would skate along the lines of immoral, unprofessional and unethical, three things that Bill Cowher definitely is not, imho.

Being a cancer survivor several times (I'm like a cat with nine lives - LOL!) I know the frustration Ben surely feels in being "down", taking one step forward and two steps back. I couldn't wait to resume my career - other than my family - it was my life and made me feel whole. I had this huge goal of furthering my career by attending law school - and I had the mindset that nothing was going to stop me - nothing. I didn't listen to my doctor's advice and he became so exhausted from my pleas to return to work, that he finally signed my work release "against medical advice", which I lived to regret. I wasn't ready physically or mentally and within a month, I had regressed to where I couldn't return to my career and had to apply for SSD, something that horrified me as I had worked all of my life up until that point and the idea of any type of "handout" sickened me. My employers specifically told me to take as much time as I needed, but I didn't listen to them or anyone else. I was hard-headed and my pride wouldn't allow me to give myself the time (I found out the hard way that I should have taken) to get myself totally in balance again. The biggest reason why I so adamantly state that I feel Ben is the one who is pushing to return to his career before he is ready, and not Bill Cowher, is because I've been there and done that. We had similar surgeries, though for different reasons, but we had the same obstinance. I pray every night for Ben that he comes to his senses, doesn't make the same mistakes that I did and gives himself time to completely heal from everything this guy has been through in a 4 month period of time.

Atlanta Dan
10-25-2006, 02:48 PM
I agree Ben is pushing the most - that is why I think Cowher is the only one in a position to slow this down

SteelCityMan786
10-25-2006, 02:58 PM
I think they're trying to rush him back, I wouldn't risk it especially if they get back in the hunt for the playoffs he can be healthy and ready to roll.

DoctorJanSteelerFan
10-25-2006, 03:27 PM
I found this article on MSNBC and I have to agree with what the guy says....

Steelers shouldn?t risk Big Ben?s future, Mike Celizic
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15409352/
Sit quarterback for awhile, no matter what doctors say....let Charlie Batch, who is a pretty darned good back-up, carry the load.....Doctors know now that when you suffer multiple concussions in relatively short time frames, your risk of long-term damage starts to increase exponentially. We?ve seen it happen enough to other great athletes to know it?s not a possibility to be taken lightly.
Great article, I-Want-Troy's-Hair. I've made too many posts already on this subject and feel like I'm >>:banging: :banging: :banging:
You just don't play around with injuries to the head and in this case, two injuries to the head/brain in a relatively short period of time. That is insane.

I'd sit his ass down for not just one week, but several. The after-effects of a concussion sometimes don't present themselves for weeks - even months - after the injury(ies). We have a very viable option here in playing Batch so why throw caution to the wind, especially when it involves your franchise QB? :dang:
Insane, YES.
That is why Cowher needs to step in as a player's coach. Team doctors are not going to get in the way of a player wanting to play or the teams wanting the player to get back on the field So forget the doctor sitting Ben down.

As for Ben, he obviously has no inner circle of confidants who can restrain him from engaging in self-destructive behavior, with Exhibit A being the helmetless motorcycle riding.....So that leaves it to Cowher.....
I agree if the doctors have ANY backbone then they will say Ben MUST sit this week... (and longer... but let's take a game at a time.) I'm HOPING all this talk of Ben playing is a smokescreen to keep the opponents guessing. If not, then Cowher, even Rooney himself??, must step in and say no way.
If they don't then I believe the Steeler Nation needs to rise up and say:
SAVE BEN. PLAY BATCH.

Big D
10-25-2006, 03:36 PM
Could you please provide me with a link to any story out there in which Bill Cowher gives any indication, or states directly, that he wants to "rush", expedite, hurry up, etc. Ben's comeback, either before the start of the season, after his appendectomy or this week after the hit on him in the Atlanta game. I'd appreciate it - thanks! :smile:

do you think cowher is going to come right out and say i'm rushing ben back. My point is a coach with cowhers experience should know better then put bens career in jepority like this. Ben has alot of maturity and bill needs to be a father figure and sit this young man down and explain to him he is putting his young career on the line. One more concussion could end this young mans career. I understand hometown you have a deep love for cowher for what he HAS done for this franchise as well as I do. I just see everything wrong with his decision making regarding ben this year

HometownGal
10-25-2006, 10:36 PM
do you think cowher is going to come right out and say i'm rushing ben back. My point is a coach with cowhers experience should know better then put bens career in jepority like this. Ben has alot of maturity and bill needs to be a father figure and sit this young man down and explain to him he is putting his young career on the line. One more concussion could end this young mans career. I understand hometown you have a deep love for cowher for what he HAS done for this franchise as well as I do. I just see everything wrong with his decision making regarding ben this year

:banging: :banging: D - you are still basing your opinion on this topic on nothing more than that - your opinion, which I do respect but totally disagree with as you know. No disrespect intended here, hon, but that just isn't good enough for me to change my completely opposite opinion. For the record - it has nothing ot do with my respect for Cowher. Maybe Ben's own father should be a "father figure" and kick Ben in the ass for being so damned stubborn (and yes, irresponsible) - starting with the day he decided to ride a crotch rocket cycle without a helmet which started this entire unfortunate chain of events.

I think if you read the thread on the remarks made to Ben by one of the Atlanta defenders, it might become a little more clear. :wink02:

X-Terminator
10-26-2006, 12:28 AM
I think its cowhers thinking of wanting to win right now. I think he's not considering the future of his quarterback. He's more concerned about today rather then tommorow

I do not believe this for one second. There is NO WAY Cowher would put winning above any player's health - no way whatsoever. Do you honestly think he would put his reputation on the line in this manner? On top of that, do you think the doctor who examined Ben on Monday and after his accident, who is one of the heads of the UPMC neurology department, is going to put HIS status and reputation on the line by clearing him to play when he isn't ready? It isn't going to happen. So if the doctors say Ben is ready to play, if Ben feels he's ready to play and Cowher feels he's ready to play, then he's going to play, whether we agree with the decision or not.