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lamberts-lost-tooth
10-27-2006, 08:14 AM
Cowher will wait to name starter
Friday, October 27, 2006

By Gerry Dulac, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette



Ben Roethlisberger went through a full practice yesterday -- his first since taking a hit to the head and sustaining a concussion in Atlanta -- but coach Bill Cowher declined to say if his quarterback will play against the Oakland Raiders.

Even though Cowher said he is "very encouraged" about Roethlisberger's progress, he said he likely will wait until Sunday morning before determining if he will play against the Raiders.

"He feels better than he did [Wednesday]," Cowher said. "We'll see how he feels after traveling across the country."

Still, if Roethlisberger practices today, that means the team intends to start him against the Raiders. But the Steelers want to continue to monitor his progress for signs of any post-concussion symptoms such as nausea, headaches, dizziness or blurred vision.

Asked if Roethlisberger has passed all the tests necessary to receive medical clearance, Cowher said, "Yes, to this point."

Cowher said earlier this week that he wants to make sure Roethlisberger doesn't have any "apprehension" about being hit after a second head injury in the past four months.

In his past two games, Roethlisberger has completed 32 of 41 passes for 476 yards, five touchdowns and no interceptions. His passer rating in those games is 154.62.

"It will be on-going," Cowher said. "We'll continue to monitor his progress."

19ward86
10-27-2006, 09:10 AM
i like to hear the stat on ben, it is encouraging.

Big D
10-27-2006, 09:12 AM
whats not encouraging is that one more concussion could take him out for the season or his career

Tankus_Maximus
10-27-2006, 10:31 AM
I agree with Big D...one more shot in Iron Man's grill and that could be lights out on his career.

Elvis
10-27-2006, 12:18 PM
:tt02:
I believe that we would better off leaving Ben on the bench this week against the Raiders and give him that extra time that his body is obviously needing. If we cant beat the Raiders without Ben then it is pretty sad especially the way Batch has been performing lately...:wink02:

Livinginthe past
10-27-2006, 01:02 PM
I tell you where my money is at on this subject - strongly in the 'Ben is going to start' camp.

I dont mind putting that out there - I could be wrong but I feel pretty strongly on the subject.

Here's why ;

Cowher has consistently let Ben make decisions on what he wants to do, not what is necessarily right for the team - this relates to decisions on whether he should be on the field and also what information is released to the media.

In the short time Ben has been the Steelers QB there have been quite a few discrepancies between 'Bens story', 'Cowhers Story' and what 'actually happened' - broken toes, off the field injuries, etc etc.

I think Bill is being too soft with the guy - sure he is an excellent talent (the way he took apart the Falcons D was spectacular) but he has maturity issues and these normally lead to him being the centre of attention.

Anyway, its clear that Ben wears the 'trousers' in this particular relationship from what I can tell - I fully expect him to have talked Bill C. into starting him sunday.

Oh, and plenty of other Steelers posters have expressed concern about Bens desire for attention and maturity issues - so I really dont need to be called a troll for speaking my own mind.

NM

Atlanta Dan
10-27-2006, 02:04 PM
LITP - I certainly do not think you are a troll and value your insights but would like to address the issue of character in a player or coach.

With an AFC championship game and Super Bowl ring in his first two years, whether Ben is undisciplined and immature frankly may be an unfortunate character flaw but has not really been a big issue until this past June as far as Ben's on-field performance is concerned.

To cite the flaws of another esteemed NFL figure, Bill Belicheck is pretty clearly an arrogant a**hole but that arrogance has not cost the Pats, so far, although Belichek's apparent belief he is such a great coach that he can win with anyone and proceed to let Branch and Vinateri go while the Pats have $10 million in cap space this year may bite the Pats in January.

My poiint is that if you win Super Bowls few if any fans care about the character traits of the coach or player. That includes me and I bet it includes you.

That having been said, while Belichek answers only to God (or maybe God answers to Belichek), if Cowher was staying after this year I think he would take a firmer stance and assert more authority over Ben, since Ben has been making enough arrogant and self-destructive decisions on and off the field that it is impacting his performance. But since I think Cowher is leaving and this season has become more of a victory lap than a defense of a championship, Cowher's view may be I told you to quit riding bikes without a helmet and look where that got you, so if you want to end your career early it is your life and will not be impacting mine after December 31, 2006.

Cowher generally appears to be cutting everyone more slack, with a loose team crossing the line into an undisciplined one. Assuming Ben does not have more injuries this season and remains a potential franchsie QB, whoever coaches this team next year is going to be dealing with the need to set tougher ground rules with both Ben and other team members.

tony hipchest
10-27-2006, 02:21 PM
I think Bill is being too soft with the guy - sure he is an excellent talent (the way he took apart the Falcons D was spectacular) but he has maturity issues and these normally lead to him being the centre of attention.

Anyway, its clear that Ben wears the 'trousers' in this particular relationship from what I can tell - I fully expect him to have talked Bill C. into starting him sunday.

Oh, and plenty of other Steelers posters have expressed concern about Bens desire for attention and maturity issues - so I really dont need to be called a troll for speaking my own mind.

NMcan you please expand on some of these "maturity issues"? compared to most of those 24 and younger, hes quite mature and it is unfair to lump him in the same category as marcus vick, chris henry, and pac man jones.

by ben wearing the trousers are you implying that he gets preferential treatment, and is the one calling the shots as to whether an injured j. porter or d. townsend play? cowher knows he has one of the best medical staffs in the nfl. he does not micro manage them. it is the player who knows their body the best and once they are medidically cleared to play then bill lets them play. this goes for ALL players, not just ben.

oh, and dont sweat being called a troll. even i have been called a troll on my own forum. for speaking my own mind no less. :chuckle:

Livinginthe past
10-27-2006, 02:21 PM
LITP - I certainly do not think you are a troll and value your insights but would like to address the issue of character in a player or coach.

With an AFC championship game and Super Bowl ring in his first two years, whether Ben is undisciplined and immature frankly may be an unfortunate character flaw but has not really been a big issue until this past June as far as Ben's on-field performance is concerned.

To cite the flaws of another esteemed NFL figure, Bill Belicheck is pretty clearly an arrogant a**hole but that arrogance has not cost the Pats, so far, although Belichek's apparent belief he is such a great coach that he can win with anyone and proceed to let Branch and Vinateri go while the Pats have $10 million in cap space this year may bite the Pats in January.

My poiint is that if you win Super Bowls few if any fans care about the character traits of the coach or player. That includes me and I bet it includes you.

That having been said, while Belichek answers only to God (or maybe God answers to Belichek), if Cowher was staying after this year I think he would take a firmer stance and assert more authority over Ben, since Ben has been making enough arrogant and self-destructive decisions on and off the field that it is impacting his performance. But since I think Cowher is leaving and this season has become more of a victory lap than a defense of a championship, Cowher's view may be I told you to quit riding bikes without a helmet and look where that got you, so if you want to end your career early it is your life and will not be impacting mine after December 31, 2006.

Cowher generally appears to be cutting everyone more slack, with a loose team crossing the line into an undisciplined one. Assuming Ben does not have more injuries this season and remains a potential franchsie QB, whoever coaches this team next year is going to be dealing with the need to set tougher ground rules with both Ben and other team members.

Hey dan,

Thanks and nice post.

I certainly agree that Bens flaws haven't cost the Steelers in any huge way during his first few years on the team, his success level is basically unprecedented.

However, every year that passes more people look to Ben to show his leadership qualities without a Bettis figure to take that role - as a QB leadership through words and actions is a must.

BB does certainly come off as an arrogant, unsociable individual - I give you that one - but I am convinced that this very rarely works to the detriment of the team.

I would suggest that Ben's need to be in the limelight has only negative connotations.

I understand and agree with the assessment of Cowhers position, although I would also add that if Ben is allowed to take the dominant position it will be a very tough job for the next guy in command to wrestle back the initiative.

Oh, and I think Ben is already a franchise QB - if he can iron out those maturity issues he could be even better than he already is - which is scary.

NM

Jeremy
10-27-2006, 02:27 PM
Why are you messing with troll Tony?

The best thing to do with him is add him to your ignore list because he brings nothing new to the table. Just the same old man crush on Brady and mindless anti-Steelers rhetoric.

tony hipchest
10-27-2006, 02:39 PM
Why are you messing with troll Tony?

The best thing to do with him is add him to your ignore list because he brings nothing new to the table. Just the same old man crush on Brady and mindless anti-Steelers rhetoric.im just trying to figure out this notion that ben has some rare insatiable need to be in the limelight. hmmmm. hes is a qb of a professional sports franchise. his job by definition puts him in the limelight. isnt wanting to play in the superbowl or go to the hall of fame wanting to be in the limelight?

i think its the same reason many brady fans hate on p. manning. brady has the rings yet manning has all the commercials, and big contracts/endorsements.

PAMillerGrrl83
10-27-2006, 02:41 PM
BB does certainly come off as an arrogant, unsociable individual - I give you that one - but I am convinced that this very rarely works to the detriment of the team.



NM

I have to disagree with that 100%. Maybe a little arrogant but unsociable, yea okay I guess, everyone is entitled to opnions but none of us really know him outside of what we see.

Jeremy
10-27-2006, 02:42 PM
It's useless to try and figure him out.

Atlanta Dan
10-27-2006, 06:21 PM
I have to disagree with that 100%. Maybe a little arrogant but unsociable, yea okay I guess, everyone is entitled to opnions but none of us really know him outside of what we see.

I suppose we could ask his ex-wife that he has divorced within the last 2 years what she thinks

tony hipchest
10-27-2006, 10:33 PM
I suppose we could ask his ex-wife that he has divorced within the last 2 years what she thinksim thinking steelersbabe assumed litp was talking about Big Ben when he typed BB. after all, we all dont refer to the belichick as "bb" around here.

floodcitygirl
10-27-2006, 10:37 PM
im thinking steelersbabe assumed litp was talking about Big Ben when he typed BB. after all, we all dont refer to the belichick as "bb" around here.(lol) Good point! :sofunny:

Livinginthe past
10-28-2006, 07:29 AM
can you please expand on some of these "maturity issues"? compared to most of those 24 and younger, hes quite mature and it is unfair to lump him in the same category as marcus vick, chris henry, and pac man jones.

by ben wearing the trousers are you implying that he gets preferential treatment, and is the one calling the shots as to whether an injured j. porter or d. townsend play? cowher knows he has one of the best medical staffs in the nfl. he does not micro manage them. it is the player who knows their body the best and once they are medidically cleared to play then bill lets them play. this goes for ALL players, not just ben.

oh, and dont sweat being called a troll. even i have been called a troll on my own forum. for speaking my own mind no less. :chuckle:

I'll give you two examples.

The oft-quoted motorcycle incident - that reeks of immaturity.

Bens fabricated foot injury - who pretends to have an injury and then gets contradicted by their HC?

Thats pretty embarrassing attention grabbing stuff if you ask me.

There is a difference between being a QB and being a primadonna.

NM

tony hipchest
10-28-2006, 01:30 PM
I'll give you two examples.

The oft-quoted motorcycle incident - that reeks of immaturity.

Bens fabricated foot injury - who pretends to have an injury and then gets contradicted by their HC?

Thats pretty embarrassing attention grabbing stuff if you ask me.

There is a difference between being a QB and being a primadonna.

NMis that all you got? a traffic accident and your own medical opinion of what was going on with bens body (foot)?

so that puts him in the same category as c. henry, pac man jones, marcus vick, terrell owens etc?

Cape Cod Steel Head
10-28-2006, 01:40 PM
Steelers Notebook: It's a 'go' for Roethlisberger
Saturday, October 28, 2006

By Gerry Dulac, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


Peter Diana, Post-Gazette
Ben Roethlisberger should start tomorrow against the Raiders in Oakland.
Click photo for larger image.





Barring some unforeseen circumstance or a change in his medical condition, Ben Roethlisberger will start at quarterback tomorrow against the Oakland Raiders, a week after he was knocked unconscious and had a concussion in Atlanta.

Roethlisberger went through a full practice for the second day in a row and has not had any problems passing all the tests necessary to receive medical clearance to play.

His condition will be monitored right up to game time to make sure there are no post-concussion symptoms such as headaches, nausea, dizziness or blurred vision.

Roethlisberger is one of the primary reasons the team's passing game has come to life. In the past two games, he and Charlie Batch have combined to complete 41 of 55 passes (74.5 percent) for 677 yards, seven touchdowns and no interceptions.

siss
10-28-2006, 01:50 PM
You know you forget that the whole foot thing could have just been Ben thinking his toes were broken and then finding out later they weren't and then it was to late to say anything. I think he's a little to honest with the media sometimes. He tells it like it is and sometimes people take that the wrong way.
I dont think Ben comes off as arrogant or unsociable at all. In fact I think its just the opposit. Does an arrogant player take responsibilty for the teams 3 game losing streak? Does an unsociable player go out with his teamates? Ben and Charlie were at the Pitt game and Ben and Brett Keisel were at the basketball game this week.
And Ben apologized for the accident. LET IT GO! Cowher does have the best medical staff in the league. Hell the guy that invented the Impact test is onhis side. I think that if that doc says Ben can play, then he can play.

tony hipchest
10-28-2006, 01:51 PM
Roethlisberger is one of the primary reasons the team's passing game has come to life. In the past two games, he and Charlie Batch have combined to complete 41 of 55 passes (74.5 percent) for 677 yards, seven touchdowns and no interceptions.people kicked dirt all over the steelers passing game at the beginning of the season. charlie batch leads the league in yards per attempt with 10+. if you throw in bens numbers they are 2nd to only the eagles. bens passer rating was horrid early (another category batch leads the league in) but with his and bens combined numbers they are in the top 10 in passer rating.

if ben is healthy he should go. we dont need him rusty again for denver and baltimore.

Livinginthe past
10-28-2006, 02:01 PM
is that all you got? a traffic accident and your own medical opinion of what was going on with bens body (foot)?

so that puts him in the same category as c. henry, pac man jones, marcus vick, terrell owens etc?

Let me break it down for you.

Firstly, I was not the one who introduced comparisons to Pac Man Jones, Chris Henry et al into the conversation - if you have a quick look back you'll notice it was you.

Im saying he has 'maturity issues' not trying to make out he is some kind of gangster.

Secondly it wasn't 'my own medical opinion' that Ben didn't break his toe - it was Bill Cowher who flat out contradicted him - which is exactly what I originally said.

Look here.

Rookie quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was exaggerating when he said he broke two toes on his right foot during the AFC championship game, Pittsburgh Steelers coach Bill Cowher said.

Roethlisberger told reporters Jan. 25 he wore down physically during the lengthy NFL season and broke two toes while scrambling late in the first half of the 41-27 loss to the New England Patriots.

Cowher seemed irritated Roethlisberger would go public with such a claim, that, in effect, suggested the Steelers gambled with the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year's health by playing him when he was hurt.

"We are unaware of any problems with his toes, OK?" Cowher said.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/PIT/8135307

NM

tony hipchest
10-28-2006, 02:20 PM
Let me break it down for you.

Firstly, I was not the one who introduced comparisons to Pac Man Jones, Chris Henry et al into the conversation - if you have a quick look back you'll notice it was you.

Im saying he has 'maturity issues' not trying to make out he is some kind of gangster.

NMPac Man Jones, Chris Henry et al are the ones with maturity issues. not ben. it was you who said their was a difference between being an nfl qb and a primadonna. for you to lump ben in this category is unfair and material better served in the blast furnace.

slashsteel
10-28-2006, 02:33 PM
I think Bill is being too soft with the guy - sure he is an excellent talent (the way he took apart the Falcons D was spectacular) but he has maturity issues and these normally lead to him being the centre of attention.

Anyway, its clear that Ben wears the 'trousers' in this particular relationship from what I can tell - I fully expect him to have talked Bill C. into starting him sunday.

Seems like every time I read one of your post it has some negativity in it. Which is why posters throw words like "troll" at you. Your viewpoints will always be slanted being a puff fan. Ben is very mature for his age. Looking at what the guy has gone through he has acted with nothing but class and maturity.

And to note, Cowher gets the final say. Anything less is pure bullshit on your part.

Livinginthe past
10-28-2006, 02:43 PM
Pac Man Jones, Chris Henry et al are the ones with maturity issues. not ben. it was you who said their was a difference between being an nfl qb and a primadonna. for you to lump ben in this category is unfair and material better served in the blast furnace.

To repeat, I have not lumped Ben in with anyone - that was you.

Why is this so difficult to comprehend?

He fabricates and exaggerates - to me that suggests 'maturity issues' which is the only thing I have accused him of.

I supplied the evidence you wanted of him being a 'primadonna' - I dont know of many other NFL QB's that have lied to the media about injuries that can be easily checked up on - do you?

NM

slashsteel
10-28-2006, 02:45 PM
I suggest you have immaturity issues.

Livinginthe past
10-28-2006, 02:46 PM
Seems like every time I read one of your post it has some negativity in it. Which is why posters throw words like "troll" at you. Your viewpoints will always be slanted being a puff fan. Ben is very mature for his age. Looking at what the guy has gone through he has acted with nothing but class and maturity.

And to note, Cowher gets the final say. Anything less is pure bullshit on your part.

Well maybe they are slanted - thats probably a fair observation.

However, I give credit where I believe its due.

If you look at the post I rate his actual game pretty highly, and always have - which is not something typical to your average troll.

The biggest thing Ben has 'gone through' was his motorcycle accident and a large percentage of the damage caused by that was purely down to his immature stubbornness.

NM

Livinginthe past
10-28-2006, 02:48 PM
I suggest you have immaturity issues.

Suggest away - I cant say your opinion on the matter worries me too much.

All im doing is expressing my thoughts on football players - you making it personal (again) just isn't relevant.

NM

slashsteel
10-28-2006, 02:50 PM
Ok I will give you that, you are not a average troll. Many bikers ride without a helmet, this fact doesn't make them immature. He accident was just that a accident. I would love to see one fact that loops immaturity to a simple accident.

slashsteel
10-28-2006, 02:51 PM
Personal I just made a suggestion like you. So are you making it personal concerning Big Ben ? ?

Livinginthe past
10-28-2006, 02:53 PM
Ok I will give you that, you are not a average troll. Many bikers ride without a helmet, this fact doesn't make them immature. He accident was just that a accident. I would love to see one fact that loops immaturity to a simple accident.

Well thats where we disagree I suppose.

I think riding without a helmet is immature and irresponsible - its illegal over here in the UK and for good reason.

Its not easy to tie facts into this discussion when so much of it opinion based.

What did you think of Ben fabricating the story about his broken toe?

I thought it was a little odd.

NM

slashsteel
10-28-2006, 02:53 PM
Here is the bottom line try for once before you post something ask yourself. Would I make these same comments towards my team? If you can honestly 100% say you would then SOBEIT on whatever you say. But I doubt you can say that. Seriously.....

Livinginthe past
10-28-2006, 02:56 PM
Here is the bottom line try for once before you post something ask yourself. Would I make these same comments towards my team? If you can honestly 100% say you would then SOBEIT on whatever you say. But I doubt you can say that. Seriously.....

Well I honestly can Slash.

I admitted on another thread that Bill Belicheck comes off arrogant and distant to those outside the Patriot community.

To be honest we dont have too many character issues in the Patriots camp these days but I wouldnt shy away from criticising my own team if I thought they deserved it.

NM

slashsteel
10-28-2006, 02:57 PM
Well thats where we disagree I suppose.

I think riding without a helmet is immature and irresponsible - its illegal over here in the UK and for good reason.

Opinion based and because it is illegal in the UK means it is immature? Or is that just a opinion ?

So all bikers who don't sport a helmet are immature? I would love for you to tell just one of them that.

We will have to agree to disagree. Because if Brady did the same thing. MY comment would be it's a personal choice. He needs to obviously think about the danger of it. But dangerous acts doesn't = immaturity. Racing is dangerous are they all immature for going at speeds of close to 200 MPH ? ?

slashsteel
10-28-2006, 03:00 PM
And can you say without Ben's inability to let anything faze him we would have gotten to the SB last year?

I say that Big Ben is mature but lives at times on the edge. All the good QB's are gutsy. I wouldn't want our QB to change his way of thinking. Be a little safer wearing a helmet maybe. But a choice doesn't make me question his maturity.

Livinginthe past
10-28-2006, 03:00 PM
Opinion based and because it is illegal in the UK means it is immature? Or is that just a opinion ?

So all bikers who don't sport a helmet are immature? I would love for you to tell just one of them that.

We will have to agree to disagree. Because if Brady did the same thing. MY comment would be it's a personal choice. He needs to obviously think about the danger of it. But dangerous acts doesn't = immaturity. Racing is dangerous are they all immature for going at speeds of close to 200 MPH ? ?

Its all opinion really.

I think you'd have to be crazy to travel on a motorbike at those speeds with no head protection.

If Brady done it I would say the exact same thing.

If the racers are doing it for a professional living then they wouldnt be immature - if they were just regular guys/gals doing it on open road then i'd say they were for sure.

NM

slashsteel
10-28-2006, 03:02 PM
I guess there is a lot of immature 50 year old bikers then huh ?

Livinginthe past
10-28-2006, 03:17 PM
I guess there is a lot of immature 50 year old bikers then huh ?

Well I guess so.

I dont know any.

NM

tony hipchest
10-28-2006, 04:30 PM
To repeat, I have not lumped Ben in with anyone - that was you.

Why is this so difficult to comprehend?

He fabricates and exaggerates - to me that suggests 'maturity issues' which is the only thing I have accused him of.

I supplied the evidence you wanted of him being a 'primadonna' - I dont know of many other NFL QB's that have lied to the media about injuries that can be easily checked up on - do you?

NMthe problem here is your definition of immaturity and primadonna vs. mine.

of course i am sure that MY definition is the correct one. i define immaturity by the acts of characters like t.o. pac man et al. you define them by anyone who rides a motorcycle without a helmet. i have met plenty of bikers (huns, banditos, hells angels, that would disagree)

you define a primadonna as anyone who lies about an injury. how do you know how bens toes felt? how does cowher?

players and coaches lie about injuries all the time anyways. by your definition belichick, leftwich, and c. simms are all "primadonnas".

wouldnt tom brady complaining that he couldnt focus on the game and was distracted by branch not being there also classify him as a "primadonna"? according to your loose standards i would say so.

i dont care what you say, just dont be a hypocrite about it and act holier than thou.

if you wanna trash ben there is always the blast furnace.

Livinginthe past
10-28-2006, 04:42 PM
the problem here is your definition of immaturity and primadonna vs. mine.

of course i am sure that MY definition is the correct one. i define immaturity by the acts of characters like t.o. pac man et al. you define them by anyone who rides a motorcycle without a helmet. i have met plenty of bikers (huns, banditos, hells angels, that would disagree)

you define a primadonna as anyone who lies about an injury. how do you know how bens toes felt? how does cowher?

players and coaches lie about injuries all the time anyways. by your definition belichick, leftwich, and c. simms are all "primadonnas".

wouldnt tom brady complaining that he couldnt focus on the game and was distracted by branch not being there also classify him as a "primadonna"? according to your loose standards i would say so.

i dont care what you say, just dont be a hypocrite about it and act holier than thou.

if you wanna trash ben there is always the blast furnace.

Now you just sound confused.

You got it right in the very first sentence - the problem is the difference in how we define 'immaturity' in football players.

I would say that T.O and Pac-Man have alot more stuff going on that simple maturity issues - T.O. is obviously mentally unbalanced, possibly some type of manic depression - who knows?

The 'broken toe' incident certainly isn't a matter of how Ben 'feels' - there is a way NFL teams handle things such as the disclosure of injury information - what Ben did was basically fabricate an injury...because what?

His toe felt a bit sore?

Give me a break.

If Ben had concerns over the health of his toe(s) he should have reported the matter to his coach not gone shooting his mouth off to whatever member of the media was closest.

I dont know where you deduce that I am being a 'hypocrite' - I think I have been consistent on my position it would apply just the same if a member of the Patriots pulled the same childish stunt.

NM

tony hipchest
10-28-2006, 04:54 PM
I dont know where you deduce that I am being a 'hypocrite' - I think I have been consistent on my position it would apply just the same if a member of the Patriots pulled the same childish stunt.

NMso i can assume youve spent plenty of time on patriot forums calling belichick and brady "primadonnas" over these incidents?:

players and coaches lie about injuries all the time anyways. by your definition belichick, leftwich, and c. simms are all "primadonnas".

wouldnt tom brady complaining that he couldnt focus on the game and was distracted by branch not being there also classify him as a "primadonna"? according to your loose standards i would say so

if so, atleast youre consistantly wrong.

Livinginthe past
10-28-2006, 05:47 PM
As usual you are finding it difficult to stay on topic.

Dragging Belichick, Brady and my posts on a Patriots forum have nothing to do with the original subject matter.

Get back to me when Brady or Belichick start deliberately behaving in a way that is not condusive to winning football matches - and do it in the NFL forum.

NM

tony hipchest
10-28-2006, 06:31 PM
Get back to me when Brady or Belichick start deliberately behaving in a way that is not condusive to winning football matches - and do it in the NFL forum.

NM thats a great idea. i'll actually consider it when you take your ben bashing to the blast furnace.

bens toe story happened in his rookie year. the following year he led the most impressive playoff run on way to a superbowl victory. is that not condusive to winning? in 3 years ben has lost less than 10 games.

during cowhers tenure, no team has a better winning %.

I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT

Livinginthe past
10-28-2006, 06:46 PM
thats a great idea. i'll actually consider it when you take your ben bashing to the blast furnace.

bens toe story happened in his rookie year. the following year he led the most impressive playoff run on way to a superbowl victory. is that not condusive to winning? in 3 years ben has lost less than 10 games.

during cowhers tenure, no team has a better winning %.

I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT

This is the kind of nonsense I was hoping to discourage with my disclaimer on an earlier post.

To repeat, yet again, stop acting like im the only one saying that Ben needs to do some growing up.

If you really need Bens behaviour explained to you and the adverse affect it could have on the team, then ask yourself why Cowher was so mad when the 'toe story' leaked out.

Otherwise I think we are pretty much done, as entertaining as it is to spin around in ever decreasing circles with you.

NM

tony hipchest
10-28-2006, 06:56 PM
This is the kind of nonsense I was hoping to discourage with my disclaimer on an earlier post.

To repeat, yet again, stop acting like im the only one saying that Ben needs to do some growing up.

If you really need Bens behaviour explained to you and the adverse affect it could have on the team, then ask yourself why Cowher was so mad when the 'toe story' leaked out.

Otherwise I think we are pretty much done, as entertaining as it is to spin around in ever decreasing circles with you.

NM
so youre standing by your point that this toe story that you have been so hung up on for the last 2 years has really been a detriment to the team? :toofunny:

youre trying to blame the steelers 2-4 start on ben being a primadonna and immature. whereas its evidint that that has nothing to do with giving the opponent the ball in the redzone.

your shit dont fly with me. take it to the blast furnace if you wanna spew nonsense.

next thing you will spout will be that ben was "immature" and needed the "limelight" so he went out and had appendecitis.
:blah: :blah: :blah:

bs

slashsteel
10-28-2006, 09:45 PM
The 'broken toe' incident certainly isn't a matter of how Ben 'feels' - there is a way NFL teams handle things such as the disclosure of injury information - what Ben did was basically fabricate an injury...because what?

His toe felt a bit sore?


Give me a break.

We don't know what actually happened do we ? It was kept on the low and unless you have insider information (you don't),

then all you are doing is speculating and assuming.

And we all know what happens when you assume.:tt02:

tony hipchest
10-28-2006, 09:51 PM
there is a way NFL teams handle things such as the disclosure of injury information

yes, in the regular season, or in the playoffs when their is still a game to be played. the nfl doesnt have injury reports for the off season. nice try though.

Tha rock
10-28-2006, 10:28 PM
yes, in the regular season, or in the playoffs when their is still a game to be played. the nfl doesnt have injury reports for the off season. nice try though.



yeah they do when someone gets hurt in the offseason they do look at winslow

tony hipchest
10-28-2006, 10:34 PM
yeah they do when someone gets hurt in the offseason they do look at winslowbens supposed toe injury didnt happen in the offseason. there are no weekly injury reports issued during the offseason.

Preacher
10-28-2006, 10:37 PM
is that all you got? a traffic accident and your own medical opinion of what was going on with bens body (foot)?

so that puts him in the same category as c. henry, pac man jones, marcus vick, terrell owens etc?

Coming back to this discussion, I don't think that is an issue of maturity. I think it is gamesmanship.. pure and simple. Ben once was having some problems with a knee. All week long he wore a brace on the knee... but that Sunday, he wore the brace on the other knee. Ben talks about being hurt at times when he seemingly isn't, and then doesn't say anything when he is.

I really think he is just trying to play games with opposing D coord. heads. Can't blame a man for trying to be a little strategic in his planning!

DoctorJanSteelerFan
10-28-2006, 10:57 PM
I really think he is just trying to play games with opposing D coord. heads. Can't blame a man for trying to be a little strategic in his planning!

Good point, Preacher. :scratchchin: I've wondered.. HOPED.... if this talk of Ben playing is a clever smokescreen to fool the Raiders. :idea: :stirthepot:
That will keep my blood pressure down until gametime at least. :nervous:


SAVE BEN. START BATCH.

hellbread
10-29-2006, 12:19 AM
bah. i dont agree that ben has maturity issues on the field. off the field maybe. but certainly not on the field. he sat there and handed the ball off 3/4 of the time and didnt complain about it. but saying litp is a troll is just wrong. before i signed up on this forum i noticed a lot of his comments and posts were unbiased even though he is a fan of a afc rival. i meen how many 'trolls' claim that in time ben will be a scary qb? most trolls would just say 'ben is overrated he sux' or somtin along those lines. people are just too quick to judge fans from different teams. just my two cents. :cheers:

Livinginthe past
10-29-2006, 03:58 AM
bah. i dont agree that ben has maturity issues on the field. off the field maybe. but certainly not on the field. he sat there and handed the ball off 3/4 of the time and didnt complain about it. but saying litp is a troll is just wrong. before i signed up on this forum i noticed a lot of his comments and posts were unbiased even though he is a fan of a afc rival. i meen how many 'trolls' claim that in time ben will be a scary qb? most trolls would just say 'ben is overrated he sux' or somtin along those lines. people are just too quick to judge fans from different teams. just my two cents. :cheers:

Thanks man,

Luckily most share your viewpoint - there is a just a small, very loud minority that insist that I have some ulterior motive for being here - even though I have been here longer than just about all of them.

NM

hellbread
10-29-2006, 06:54 AM
Thanks man,

Luckily most share your viewpoint - there is a just a small, very loud minority that insist that I have some ulterior motive for being here - even though I have been here longer than just about all of them.

NM

ya i hear ya man. just speak ur mind thats wat the forum is really for. bad or good. you speak your opinion and should be taken as such. i just dunno what peoples problem is with taken honest criticism once and a while since the last decade the steelers have taken so much of it? well litp least u know u got my ear mang. i dig ur posts bruddah, coming from a TRUE steeler fan keep it up mang this budz for ya :cheers:

wiqidjuggalo
10-29-2006, 06:59 AM
Thanks man,

Luckily most share your viewpoint - there is a just a small, very loud minority that insist that I have some ulterior motive for being here - even though I have been here longer than just about all of them.

NM

not to mention if indeed you were a pathetic troll i very highly doubt u would have over 3000 posts... just my 2 cents...

83-Steelers-43
10-29-2006, 07:04 AM
I'll give you two examples.

The oft-quoted motorcycle incident - that reeks of immaturity.

Bens fabricated foot injury - who pretends to have an injury and then gets contradicted by their HC?

Thats pretty embarrassing attention grabbing stuff if you ask me.

There is a difference between being a QB and being a primadonna.

NM

Nigel, hold on to your seat, I agree. This is definately not the popular opinion and I'm sure I'll get grilled, but oh well. I've stated in the past that I respect Ben's play on the field but I do question his mentality and decision making off the field.

While this is pure speculation on my part, I think Cowher get's pretty aggravated with Ben from time to time with his off field comments and decision making.

The mysterious toe injury was pretty embarrassing for Cowher if you ask me and I think it's pretty safe to say that Cowher wasn't exactly thrilled with that incident. Maybe the kid is a hypochondriac? Roberto Clemente anyone? I don't know.

It seems that minus the bike accident and the appendectomy surgery, the kid seems to find minor problems in which he is more than happy to share with the camera's and the media.

I'm hoping over time maturity off the field will kick in.

I'll jump in my foxhole now. :thumbsup:

Livinginthe past
10-29-2006, 07:33 AM
Nigel, hold on to your seat, I agree. This is definately not the popular opinion and I'm sure I'll get grilled, but oh well. I've stated in the past that I respect Ben's play on the field but I do question his mentality and decision making off the field.

While this is pure speculation on my part, I think Cowher get's pretty aggravated with Ben from time to time with his off field comments and decision making.

The mysterious toe injury was pretty embarrassing for Cowher if you ask me and I think it's pretty safe to say that Cowher wasn't exactly thrilled with that incident. Maybe the kid is a hypochondriac? Roberto Clemente anyone? I don't know.

It seems that minus the bike accident and the appendectomy surgery, the kid seems to find minor problems in which he is more than happy to share with the camera's and the media.

I'm hoping over time maturity off the field will kick in.

I'll jump in my foxhole now. :thumbsup:

Well thats pretty honest of you, I remember you having reservations in the past about Bens maturity.

As you say, no-one is trying to take away from Bens fantastic achievements on the field - but these potential problems do need to be addressed and before they get out of hand.

I dont know if it is all just related to injuries either - he has shown a real ability to recover some pretty big health problems so far - but the Atlanta D-lineman comments again show someone who hasn't properly thought what he should be giving the media to play with.

Alot of it will come down to who is HC next year, whether he comes from inside or outside the organisation he'll need to stamp his authority pretty quick.

NM

tony hipchest
10-29-2006, 01:15 PM
Alot of it will come down to who is HC next year, whether he comes from inside or outside the organisation he'll need to stamp his authority pretty quick.

NMdid i miss a press conference or something? last i heard, cowher still has a year left on his contract.

i cant believe people are so hung up on ben and "toegate". anyone remember ben had a broken thumb towards the end of last season? boy, he sure did play that up to the media :rolleyes:

i dont believe ben is immature. even if he was he is a young man who deserves the opportunity to grow and mature. lets not forget this. and lets not forget how he has handled all situations beyond the overblown "toegate" incident in his rookie season.

oh, and brett farve rides an ATV on his property without a helmet (an act that killed his brother in law). lets all go join a packers forum and proclaim how immature HE is.

that will accomplish alot.

Hines0wnz
10-29-2006, 01:53 PM
My view is if I was 24 years old and just won a Super Bowl for one of NFL's most storied franchises, I would be a little bit on the unbridled side. I would guess most of us on this forum are well over 24 so remember back when you were that age and maybe you can empathize with how it would feel to be that successful in pro sports. We all dreamed of it as a kid but how would we handle it? You just dont know unless you go through it yourself. Personally, I dont think he is immature for not wearing a helmet, I did it sometimes when I lived in Idaho where its optional to wear but I dont consider it immature. I know the danger of not wearing it and I chose not to for that particular ride.

Anyway, Ben is in fairly unchartered territory with his success as a QB. It took Terry Bradshaw a few years before he won his first SB and I believe this season will teach Ben his first lesson in humility.

lilyoder6
10-29-2006, 01:55 PM
his soph slump is taking affected right now maybe

polamalufan43
10-29-2006, 06:48 PM
Hey... did Cohwer even say who was starting? Cause I had no clue who was, and before you know it, it's game time and I see Ben in the pocket.

~Polamalufan43:tt02: