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View Full Version : Why can't we find corners?


Sharkissle29
11-26-2006, 08:06 PM
I still think Taylor is only having a bad year, but how come we can never draft any corners? This seems to be the only position we only have a problem drafting and i just dont understand it. At every other position we seem to draft intelligently...but at the CB positon...forget about it.

so what i really think is we just need to stop drafting corners in the higher rounds and pick up good, proven corners in free agency.

god save the steelers....

lilyoder6
11-26-2006, 09:09 PM
y not.. not to be mean but pitt is most likely gonna have a high draft pick this yr

Sharkissle29
11-26-2006, 09:13 PM
poluzny (sp) anyone?

SteelCzar76
11-26-2006, 09:29 PM
For some reason Colbert and co have an aversion to drafting productive, blue chip corners from major programs that are battle tested against the best of their peers. Perhap's he wants to appear to be a guru G.M by drafting the project guys,... and having them "surprise" the league. ? LOL
But it's painfully obvious he's only outwitting himself and this organization. To me he drafts the most "obvious" player at maybe two positional needs in the first. And then just loses his sense of logic for the rest of the draft.




"Hail Caesar,.......HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

Black@Gold Forever32
11-26-2006, 09:35 PM
For some reason Colbert and co have an aversion to drafting productive, blue chip corners from major programs that are battle tested against the best of their peers. Perhap's he wants to appear to be a guru G.M by drafting the project guys,... and having them "surprise" the league. ? LOL
But it's painfully obvious he's only outwitting himself and this organization. To me he drafts the most "obvious" player at maybe two positional needs in the first. And then just loses his sense of logic for the rest of the draft.




"Hail Caesar,.......HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

Good post and I agree. I times that Colbert shares in some of this blame with Cowher for this years poor record. Well lets rewind back to the 2004 NFL draft. Not only was Colclouch a horrible draft pick. But the Steelers actually traded up in the 2nd round for this bum. Its safe to say that the only draft pick from the 2004 draft that is going to be with the team next year is Ben Roethlisberger. Colclough will be gone and with the way Max Starks has played. I wouldn't want him back. All the rest of the picks from that draft are already gone.

The 2005 draft the only players that have really shown anything are Heath Miller and McFadden so far. I think McFadden is a nickel corner at best. The rest of that draft doesn't look to good right now.

This past draft the jury is still way out on this draft. But the Steelers again threw alot of picks away. The Steelers better draft better thats for sure in this upcoming draft.

SteelPerch
11-26-2006, 09:43 PM
Can the Steelers not find good corners, or does the defensive schemes put them in position to fail. The Pats win games with Troy Brown, Chad Scott, Hank Poteat at CB..

Taylor is an elite athlete, the Pats tried to sign Townsend away from us, McFadden is a good corner... Why do they struggle?

Lebeau puts them 10 yards off the ball and make them defend taller WR's one on one in the end zone on fade routes....

SET UP TO FAIL!

SteelCzar76
11-26-2006, 09:58 PM
Can the Steelers not find good corners, or does the defensive schemes put them in position to fail. The Pats win games with Troy Brown, Chad Scott, Hank Poteat at CB..

Taylor is an elite athlete, the Pats tried to sign Townsend away from us, McFadden is a good corner... Why do they struggle?

Lebeau puts them 10 yards off the ball and make them defend taller WR's one on one in the end zone on fade routes....

SET UP TO FAIL!


The "cushion" that they give receivers is a matter of ZONE scheming. (It's actually intended to protect and provide them help ) If they were forced to play man,....they would actually get beaten even worse than they do now. As far as getting beat on fades,....that's a matter of lack of awareness, coordination and ball skills on Ikes part,.... and genetics on Dshea's.



"Hail Caesar,.......HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

Sharkissle29
11-26-2006, 10:11 PM
Can the Steelers not find good corners, or does the defensive schemes put them in position to fail. The Pats win games with Troy Brown, Chad Scott, Hank Poteat at CB..

Taylor is an elite athlete, the Pats tried to sign Townsend away from us, McFadden is a good corner... Why do they struggle?

Lebeau puts them 10 yards off the ball and make them defend taller WR's one on one in the end zone on fade routes....

SET UP TO FAIL!

good point...but lebeau is a defensive genius, is he not? hmm

Steelersfan
11-26-2006, 10:36 PM
The Steelers D lives and dies by getting pressure on the QB. When that doesn't happen we make every QB in the league look good. And it hasn't been happening much this year. That's the scheme we play. A lot of DB's would have problems playing in our D without the pressure.
We should be looking at the LB's. They have been a huge let down this year.

Stillers43
11-27-2006, 10:18 AM
Revis from Pitt would be helpful! Not sure if he would be available in the 2nd round or not.

polamalufan43
11-27-2006, 10:28 AM
Who knows. Anyone else know of any corners in the draft?
The ones we have now are probbably having an off year, as are we all.
~Polamalufan43:tt02:

bradness113
11-27-2006, 12:35 PM
I dont agree with you. I think foote and farrior have upped their game this year. They are both playing great. I just think maybe we need a better DL or DT.

polamalufan43
11-27-2006, 04:25 PM
We need to draft people for the D-line and O-line successors. But most importantly I think we need to draft some corners and LB.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

Preacher
11-27-2006, 04:53 PM
Can the Steelers not find good corners, or does the defensive schemes put them in position to fail. The Pats win games with Troy Brown, Chad Scott, Hank Poteat at CB..

Taylor is an elite athlete, the Pats tried to sign Townsend away from us, McFadden is a good corner... Why do they struggle?

Lebeau puts them 10 yards off the ball and make them defend taller WR's one on one in the end zone on fade routes....

SET UP TO FAIL!

You know, I somewhat agree with you. Zone blitzing is great... but when you start 10 yards off, and the O starts running inside slants... or outside routes with moves to isolate and burn the coverage... it is time to change the Defensive scheming. However, our other problem is the CB's themselves. we need better, taller, faster DB's.

And yes... go out in free agency if you need to get them.

Sharkissle29
11-27-2006, 05:54 PM
anyone know when the last time they took a corner in the first round? and who was it?

SteelCzar76
11-27-2006, 07:14 PM
I think we should go with Terrell Thomas (USC) 6'1 200lbs. (Physical,... with size,speed, good awareness and plays the ball well.)
or
Terrell Brown (Texas) 6'0 200lbs. (Battle tested, good speed, covers well and is physical.)
with our second round pick.
AFTER,.... taking F/S Laron Landry (LSU 6'2 205lbs) in the first. Landry would provide another impact presence in the secondary similar to that of Troy's. He's a very athletic "big hitting" ballhawk. (many compare him to Ed reed)



"Hail Caesar,......HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

Sharkissle29
11-27-2006, 09:03 PM
I think we should go with Terrell Thomas (USC) 6'1 200lbs. (Physical,... with size,speed, good awareness and plays the ball well.)
or
Terrell Brown (Texas) 6'0 200lbs. (Battle tested, good speed, covers well and is physical.)
with our second round pick.
AFTER,.... taking F/S Laron Landry (LSU 6'2 205lbs) in the first. Landry would provide another impact presence in the secondary similar to that of Troy's. He's a very athletic "big hitting" ballhawk. (many compare him to Ed reed)



"Hail Caesar,......HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

i have my faith in anthony smith, i think hes gonna be a stud. very physical

SteelCzar76
11-27-2006, 11:15 PM
i have my faith in anthony smith, i think hes gonna be a stud. very physical


I like Smith as well,.... i just feel like Landry is the only defensive back worthy of a top 10-15 pick this year. And he has talent that you just don't pass on. (Though some team will likely make a "Pac Man Jones" like selection of some Corner based on the combine. ) LOL

And being that i consider the secondary our greatest weakness. I think we should address it aggressively by bringing in an impact playmaker with our first pick.
Sure every pick is a gamble,.....but i think Landry is more of a "safe bet" than Leon Hall, Daymeion Hughes or Marcus McCauley. (Not to mention this would allow us to get rid of TY and let Clark back up Troy)



"Hail Caesar,......HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

Sharkissle29
11-27-2006, 11:28 PM
I like Smith as well,.... i just feel like Landry is the only defensive back worthy of a top 10-15 pick this year. And he has talent that you just don't pass on. (Though some team will likely make a "Pac Man Jones" like selection of some Corner based on the combine. ) LOL

And being that i consider the secondary our greatest weakness. I think we should address it aggressively by bringing in an impact playmaker with our first pick.
Sure every pick is a gamble,.....but i think Landry is more of a "safe bet" than Leon Hall, Daymeion Hughes or Marcus McCauley. (Not to mention this would allow us to get rid of TY and let Clark back up Troy)



"Hail Caesar,......HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

so would u start anthony smith, a second year player...or start a rookie?

SteelCzar76
11-27-2006, 11:59 PM
so would u start anthony smith, a second year player...or start a rookie?

Whomever earns it through Camp and the preseason. I think it would be a "win, win" situation because the competition would bring out the best in both of them. And whomever ends up as the backup would still to provide us with QUALITY depth. (with little or no drop off in productivity)



"Hail Caesar,.....HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

MACH1
11-28-2006, 01:38 AM
If there's one thing we've ever done well, it's pull off awesome blitzes with dominant linebackers and fast DBs.

We've got both of those this year, but too bad we forgot to ever blitz.

Live by the blitz, Die by the blitz
Especially when the CB's cant cover.

MACH1
11-28-2006, 01:49 AM
I didnt want to see them die this year either but blitzing every down is not the answer or the reason why were where we are at right now.

MJ5150
11-28-2006, 01:50 AM
....Colbert........Perhap's he wants to appear to be a guru G.M by drafting the project guys,... and having them "surprise" the league.

I can agree with this. I honestly feel that mentality gets in the way on some of his picks.

As far as drafting players....get guys from WINNING PROGRAMS. Winning is also a mentality, and it sure is nice to have locker room full of guys who have been winning football games since college.

Let me refer to Seattle for a moment, since I am up here and hear all about them all day. They pick Lofa Tatupu, who is supposedly too small and maybe not a stud LB in the NFL. Yet, he comes from a winning college....USC. He lost two games the whole four years he was there. What happens? He comes in and kicks butt.

When the draft rolls around, lets grab some guys who are USED to winning. The CB's from USC and Texas mentioned earlier would be a great idea!!

-Mike

SteelCzar76
11-28-2006, 01:56 AM
Zone schemes like the Pittsburgh 2(Tampa 2, Dungy learned it in Pit) call for the the corner to jam the WR at the line.


The zone scheme that Dungy took from the SteelCurtain era (Tampa 2) is run out of a 4-3 alignment. As you know,.. we run a Zone Blitzing scheme out of 3-4. In a cover 2 sub package of our scheme the corner's responsibities are the flats (10 to 15 yards off of the line of scrimmage),..... with Linebackers dropping into coverage. And safety help over the top.



"Hail Caesar,......HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

SteelCzar76
11-28-2006, 02:09 AM
We should look to draft young LBs and DT,DL. Pressure on the QB always makes your CBs look great. This is the same secondary as a year ago, but we are not getting the sacks and the QB pressures to help them out. We have always relied ont he blitz to cover the CBs.


You comments about pressure are true. But i don't think you disregard the quality of your secondary concentrating soley on pass rush. A quality secondary is just as important. (Ie the term "Coverage Sacks"). No matter how talented your personel up front or how good your scheme is,.....you won't get there all the time against all opponents. And if your defensive backfield is sub par,......more often then not (especially against the better teams),.......you will pay dearly. By giving up first downs and points.



"Hail Caesar,.......HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

SteelCzar76
11-28-2006, 02:40 AM
I can agree with this. I honestly feel that mentality gets in the way on some of his picks.

As far as drafting players....get guys from WINNING PROGRAMS. Winning is also a mentality, and it sure is nice to have locker room full of guys who have been winning football games since college.

Let me refer to Seattle for a moment, since I am up here and hear all about them all day. They pick Lofa Tatupu, who is supposedly too small and maybe not a stud LB in the NFL. Yet, he comes from a winning college....USC. He lost two games the whole four years he was there. What happens? He comes in and kicks butt.

When the draft rolls around, lets grab some guys who are USED to winning. The CB's from USC and Texas mentioned earlier would be a great idea!!

-Mike


Very well said MJ. I think some G.M's (Colbert included) "sleep on" (so to speak) the importance of such a mentality. (Winning)
Sure,.... you need your solid "role Players". (Just not as nearly half of your starters on Defense)LOL



"Hail Caesar,.....HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

Sharkissle29
11-28-2006, 06:59 PM
2007 corners who will be available for next year......

after some research i compiled this list...
Nate Clements (Buffalo)
Asante Samuel (New England)
Roderick Hood (Phiiladelphia)
Travis Fisher (St. Louis)
David Macklin (Arizona)

feel free to add to the list.....

and for you pass rusher gurus who feel we need LB's, some great ones out there....
Cato June (Indy)
Lance Briggs (Chicago)

not a whole lot of talent out there for the CB position, i really think we're better off at keeping what we got....but those linebackers seem very intriguing...just how much money do we have tho? so many questions

Elvis
11-28-2006, 07:22 PM
:tt02:
Cato June is the only one on that list that we should even consider... Hey.. that Asante Samuel has really developed into a pretty darn good DB and he has been with one of the best defensive gurus in the business in New England... What Ya think..? I like him and he is good in support of the run as well..

ChronoCross
11-28-2006, 08:49 PM
There is not much to say in this thread most points of been coverd anyways. Ike will return to form in 2007. Ike and Mcfadden will be the starting Corners this coming season. There will not be much change besides maybe drafting a corner to play in nickel and dimes and as backups. Coc future is uncertain because some thought he would be better then Ike and he has yet to improve. Coc could be a cut this coming season are be a full time member of ST and possible a KR. I am pretty sure townsend will be back but as a backup and play ST, and nickel and dime. This secondary we have will be there for along time. Tyrone Carter is up for signing this coming season and might be a cap cut do to big deals on Ike and Big Ben and Troy P. This year were going to lock in some of the key players for along time.

The defense itself is not going to change much folks this coming season if at all besides adding some new faces for backups to groom for the big change in 2008 and 2009 seasons when the defense starts to take on a new face of the next generation steel curtain.

And who knows what were really going to do with a new Coaching Staff change.

SteelerFanInCA
11-29-2006, 06:55 PM
I'm just hoping we can pick up a few CB's that are over six feet tall. It seemed like our 5'10' CB's kept getting out jumped in the endzone.

Livinginthe past
11-29-2006, 06:59 PM
Unfortunately I dont think that either the Steelers or the Patriots will be in with a serious chance of getting any of those marquee FA's in the offseason.

The only way a Pittsburgh player is coming to New England is if he is a role player or a reserve, and I believe the reverse would also be true.

I love the thought of Adaleius Thomas, Lance Briggs or Nate Clements joining the Patriots but its just not the way our team is built.

NM