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View Full Version : Caoch's Legacy, Future,....the TRUTH.


SteelCzar76
11-29-2006, 09:07 PM
Much has been said of Coach walking away and this season's failure to perform as Champions should from a Team standpoint.
But what kills me is the disregard that many hold Coach Cowher in. ? Since he arrived in 92 he's led his men to 25 playoff games, eight division titles, six conference title games, two Superbowl appearances,.....and a World Title. (all 14 seasons)
Yes,.... we lost most of those Title Games at home and a SuperBowl.(Which almost drove me insane as well. LOL).
But does no one take into consideration that the KEY and common thread in ALL of those losses was the inept play from a QB ?
I feel as though Coach has done a more than exceptional job especially in light of some of the quality (LACK THEREOF) of personel he's had to work with for most of his tenure. To me his ONLY weakness is his personal loyalty to players that are not worthy (from perspective of ABILITY) to be starters. This is the only sense in which he fails his units and the organization as a whole.
That being said,......in my opinion he still remains one of the best coaches on any level of football. Say what you want about "Lack of Fire" or "he's gone soft and doesn't have the will to coach". Or my personal favorite,.... "He wants to quit,... because it will destroy his family to continue" (LOL Knock it off )
But the fact is,......his men whom are suppossed to be Warriors,.....professionals,.....failed him far more so than he did them this season.
Coach Cowher is not infallible by any means. But to me,.... he's PROVEN his worth and derserves far more respect and Honor than he is given by those whom he should the most,........The Steeler Nation.


"Here's to hoping you prove them all wrong Coach"



"Hail Caesar,.......HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

Stlrs4Life
11-29-2006, 09:10 PM
I agree. I said in a previous post that all the same BS was said afte 6-10 finish in 2003, since he has gone 15-1, and a SB winner.

Atlanta Dan
11-29-2006, 09:13 PM
Cowher is the second best coach in Steelers history and will be missed.

But leaving aside the apparent lack of emotion by the HC, if you lay it on Ben, it is worthwhile to consider:

1. Who made the call to give Ben so few snaps in pre-season

2. Who made the call to play Ben in the Jax game

3. Who made the call to play Ben in the Oakland game

4. Who made the call to put Ben back in the Ravens game to be a human pinata after he bruised his sternum in a game in which the Steelers still would not have scored if they played through tonight.

This collapse has had many contributors but Cowher has not had close to his finest season of coaching and has botched his exit strategy from the Steelers by letting rumors fester as ro whether he is staying or going.

If he is leaving he should have said so.

SteelCzar76
11-29-2006, 09:51 PM
Cowher is the second best coach in Steelers history and will be missed.

But leaving aside the apparent lack of emotion by the HC, if you lay it on Ben, it is worthwhile to consider:

1. Who made the call to give Ben so few snaps in pre-season

2. Who made the call to play Ben in the Jax game

3. Who made the call to play Ben in the Oakland game

4. Who made the call to put Ben back in the Ravens game to be a human pinata after he bruised his sternum in a game in which the Steelers still would not have scored if they played through tonight.

This collapse has had many contributors but Cowher has not had close to his finest season of coaching and has botched his exit strategy from the Steelers by letting rumors fester as ro whether he is staying or going.

If he is leaving he should have said so.


Before i begin,.....let it be known that i did not intend this to be a "Ben" thread. LOL
But in all honesty,.....it was never Coach's intent to Draft Ben. (Philip Rivers). But that's of no matter now he's (Ben) our QB.
But let's speak of the bottom line. It was Ben's decision to ride without a helmet thereby allowing himself to be injured and cause his lack of rep's this summer for health concerns. Not to mention his later appendectomy which was almost certainly a result of the accident. (via trauma)
In any case,....perhaps coach was mistaken for allowing him to play in light of how things occured. But in my opinion it was a matter of, "You (Ben),.....and many others,...feel you can overcome this and are one of the elite,.....so be it then, prove it"
He (Cowher) gambled and lost,....but this doesn't mean he is now unable to lead this team to even greater success on the field in the future.
In regards to him letting rumors linger,....maybe that's a matter of indecision on his part to discuss PUBLICLY. Perhaps he had planned to retire if he could honorably stand down with his head held high. But this season's performance has changed that ?
And he's going to let his action's speak for themselves. (regardless of as to when "John Q public" becomes aware of them)






"Hail Caesar,.......HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

Rotorhead
11-30-2006, 12:35 AM
I agree mostly with what you said SC, however the simple fact is that it is the coaches responsibility to get the team ready to play, period. The team has been ready for about 4 of its games this season (and we still lost 2 of those). Cowher is definately not the same coach he was last year, it is noticable during games. The fire is just not there. I am a huge Cowher fan, he is the best thing that has happened to the Steelers since I have cared about football. I know that if a Coach loses that drive, it is reflected in the play of the players. Maybe he needs a year or few off, or maybe he will be his old self next season and we will have alot more years of the old Cowher (I hope) but this year is a collapse on everyones part. I don't "blame" the poor season on Cowher, we have had more than our share of badluck, but when every aspect of the team is playing poorly, that is a result of coaching. That has happened in several games this season.

LambertLunatic
11-30-2006, 12:44 AM
Cowher is the second best coach in Steelers history and will be missed.

I know that I'll be accused of blasphemy for saying this, but I think Cowher is THE best coach in Steelers history. Coach Noll won 4 SBs, but he done it with basically one team. There were 9 Hall of Famers on those teams (and 2 more guys that may end up in the HOF). This isn't counting several other Pro Bowl players. After the 70's stars aged and/or retired, he was unable to win on a consistent basis.

Cowher brought 2 entirely different teams to the SB. That 1st Cowher SB had but 2 future HOFers (Woodson and Dawson). The 2nd SB had at most 3 future HOFers (Jerome, Ben, and Troy) (Sorry, I love Ward, but he aint gonna make it). If Cowher had 9 HOFers all in their prime at the same time, (without having to worry about free agency) does anybody doubt that he'd have a lot more than 4 SB wins? Yes, Noll had more skill and or luck in several of his early drafts (though after 74, he only drafted a handfull of ProBowlers and 2 HOFers), but Cowher has always made the team better than the sum of it's parts. Yeah, I know that Cowher coached us to some bad records, but I recall some pretty bad seasons in the 80s and early 90s also (1 playoff apparence in 7 years).

We hear the complaints about Cowher losing 4 out of six six conference title games, but we forget about Noll losing the Division Playoff game in 1977 with NINE HOFers on the roster (ALL IN THEIR PRIME). Of course, losing the 76 conference title game was understandable considering that we only had 8 HOFers play due to Franco's injury. Cowher has never lost a conference title game with more than 3 potential HOFers (a ROOKIE Ben, a first year starter Troy, and Jerome).

This is not to bash Noll, but too many here forget that he coached past the 70s. Yes, he has more rings, but all things considered, I believe that Cowher was the better coach.

Ok, you can give me Hell now.

Prosdo
11-30-2006, 02:11 AM
My only issue with Cowher is he looks so burnt out on the sidelines this season. No way will I ever say he is a bad coach. He is an amazing coach and has done a lot for the team.

HometownGal
11-30-2006, 07:28 AM
My only issue with Cowher is he looks so burnt out on the sidelines this season. No way will I ever say he is a bad coach. He is an amazing coach and has done a lot for the team.

I mentioned Cowher being burned out in another thread recently and I think this is a huge part of his lack of emotion this season. After 15 years of coaching with such intensity, I think being drained is within the realm of reason.

As far as Cowher's purchase of the home in NC and him not revealing whether or not he will return next season, those are personal issues between he and his wife and he and the Rooneys. The media has dragged out rumors connecting one with the other based on nothing more than pure speculation and without knowing all of the details. When Cowher is ready to announce his decision - if he's even made it yet- he will. We all need to give him a little breathing room, imho, including the media.

Great post Czar! :cheers:

Atlanta Dan
11-30-2006, 07:46 AM
I know that I'll be accused of blasphemy for saying this, but I think Cowher is THE best coach in Steelers history. Coach Noll won 4 SBs, but he done it with basically one team. There were 9 Hall of Famers on those teams (and 2 more guys that may end up in the HOF). This isn't counting several other Pro Bowl players. After the 70's stars aged and/or retired, he was unable to win on a consistent basis.

Cowher brought 2 entirely different teams to the SB. That 1st Cowher SB had but 2 future HOFers (Woodson and Dawson). The 2nd SB had at most 3 future HOFers (Jerome, Ben, and Troy) (Sorry, I love Ward, but he aint gonna make it). If Cowher had 9 HOFers all in their prime at the same time, (without having to worry about free agency) does anybody doubt that he'd have a lot more than 4 SB wins? Yes, Noll had more skill and or luck in several of his early drafts (though after 74, he only drafted a handfull of ProBowlers and 2 HOFers), but Cowher has always made the team better than the sum of it's parts. Yeah, I know that Cowher coached us to some bad records, but I recall some pretty bad seasons in the 80s and early 90s also (1 playoff apparence in 7 years).

We hear the complaints about Cowher losing 4 out of six six conference title games, but we forget about Noll losing the Division Playoff game in 1977 with NINE HOFers on the roster (ALL IN THEIR PRIME). Of course, losing the 76 conference title game was understandable considering that we only had 8 HOFers play due to Franco's injury. Cowher has never lost a conference title game with more than 3 potential HOFers (a ROOKIE Ben, a first year starter Troy, and Jerome).

This is not to bash Noll, but too many here forget that he coached past the 70s. Yes, he has more rings, but all things considered, I believe that Cowher was the better coach.

Ok, you can give me Hell now.

There is a saying in poker - when some players have the cards they clear the table and when other players have the cards they clear the room. - Noll cleared the room.

Noll had the players but in that era had to compete against other loaded teams (Miami/Oakland/Dallas). Cowher has not had that depth of talent but in the salary cap era no team has had that depth so the talent issue is a wash. So you compare the records on the field.

By that measure, Noll won 4 SBs (4-0) & was 4-3 in AFC Championship games (3-0 at home). Cowher has 1 SB (1-1) and is 2-4 in AFC Championship games (1-4 at home). I cannot recall a playoff game the Noll Steelers lost where they legitimately were expected to win (they were favored in 1976 in Oakland but that line was delusional). Cowher has had two noticeable crash & burns - the home AFC Championship losses to San Diego and the first loss to New England. Cowher has been a great coach but Noll was better.

stlrtruck
11-30-2006, 08:28 AM
I know that I'll be accused of blasphemy for saying this, but I think Cowher is THE best coach in Steelers history. Coach Noll won 4 SBs, but he done it with basically one team. There were 9 Hall of Famers on those teams (and 2 more guys that may end up in the HOF). This isn't counting several other Pro Bowl players. After the 70's stars aged and/or retired, he was unable to win on a consistent basis.

Cowher brought 2 entirely different teams to the SB. That 1st Cowher SB had but 2 future HOFers (Woodson and Dawson). The 2nd SB had at most 3 future HOFers (Jerome, Ben, and Troy) (Sorry, I love Ward, but he aint gonna make it). If Cowher had 9 HOFers all in their prime at the same time, (without having to worry about free agency) does anybody doubt that he'd have a lot more than 4 SB wins? Yes, Noll had more skill and or luck in several of his early drafts (though after 74, he only drafted a handfull of ProBowlers and 2 HOFers), but Cowher has always made the team better than the sum of it's parts. Yeah, I know that Cowher coached us to some bad records, but I recall some pretty bad seasons in the 80s and early 90s also (1 playoff apparence in 7 years).

We hear the complaints about Cowher losing 4 out of six six conference title games, but we forget about Noll losing the Division Playoff game in 1977 with NINE HOFers on the roster (ALL IN THEIR PRIME). Of course, losing the 76 conference title game was understandable considering that we only had 8 HOFers play due to Franco's injury. Cowher has never lost a conference title game with more than 3 potential HOFers (a ROOKIE Ben, a first year starter Troy, and Jerome).

This is not to bash Noll, but too many here forget that he coached past the 70s. Yes, he has more rings, but all things considered, I believe that Cowher was the better coach.

Ok, you can give me Hell now.

YOU BLASPHEMIST! (seriously, just kidding)

I think you've got some valid points. And I definitely put Cowher and Noll in the same status as far as being a great coach.

I think the two have something else in common, they coached one year longer than they should have coached. I think that's a problem with a lot of coaches today.

The one thing that bothers me about Cowher is it looks like he's been to Anger Management classes and it's taken his emotion and desire with it. Hey, if he wants to come back next year, I only ask one thing of him - BE THE COACH WE KNOW!!

Even when the team had losing seasons in the past, he was always fired up on the side lines!

jbattenhouse
11-30-2006, 10:17 AM
[But does no one take into consideration that the KEY and common thread in ALL of those losses was the inept play from a QB ?
I feel as though Coach has done a more than exceptional job especially in light of some of the quality (LACK THEREOF) of personel he's had to work with for most of his tenure. To me his ONLY weakness is his personal loyalty to players that are not worthy (from perspective of ABILITY) to be starters. This is the only sense in which he fails his units and the organization as a whole.

This statement right here is one of the major criticisms I have against Cowher. Being loyal to a player that is not worthy of starting at QB (Kordell, Kent Graham, Maddox) is certainly a big reason why this team did not succeed more than it did. And while QB was a big spotlight of a position, this happened with other positions as well (CB being another notable one). Cowher has been very successful, but he certainly has his drawbacks and that has hindered his success as much as anything else.

BigDuke6
11-30-2006, 04:33 PM
I know that I'll be accused of blasphemy for saying this, but I think Cowher is THE best coach in Steelers history. Coach Noll won 4 SBs, but he done it with basically one team. There were 9 Hall of Famers on those teams (and 2 more guys that may end up in the HOF). This isn't counting several other Pro Bowl players. After the 70's stars aged and/or retired, he was unable to win on a consistent basis.

Cowher brought 2 entirely different teams to the SB. That 1st Cowher SB had but 2 future HOFers (Woodson and Dawson). The 2nd SB had at most 3 future HOFers (Jerome, Ben, and Troy) (Sorry, I love Ward, but he aint gonna make it). If Cowher had 9 HOFers all in their prime at the same time, (without having to worry about free agency) does anybody doubt that he'd have a lot more than 4 SB wins? Yes, Noll had more skill and or luck in several of his early drafts (though after 74, he only drafted a handfull of ProBowlers and 2 HOFers), but Cowher has always made the team better than the sum of it's parts. Yeah, I know that Cowher coached us to some bad records, but I recall some pretty bad seasons in the 80s and early 90s also (1 playoff apparence in 7 years).

We hear the complaints about Cowher losing 4 out of six six conference title games, but we forget about Noll losing the Division Playoff game in 1977 with NINE HOFers on the roster (ALL IN THEIR PRIME). Of course, losing the 76 conference title game was understandable considering that we only had 8 HOFers play due to Franco's injury. Cowher has never lost a conference title game with more than 3 potential HOFers (a ROOKIE Ben, a first year starter Troy, and Jerome).

This is not to bash Noll, but too many here forget that he coached past the 70s. Yes, he has more rings, but all things considered, I believe that Cowher was the better coach.

Ok, you can give me Hell now.

OK..... here it comes.....Give me a break !!! You think Ben and Troy are HOFers because of what ??? 1 SB and a couple good years ?? Try to pass that onto the HOF voters. By that logic they better be building new wings onto the Hall in Canton 'cause they'll have just about EVERYBODY in there.
As far as the comparison to Noll and Cowher are concerned, you are obviously young. Bottom line is this....4 SB in 6 years = the GREATEST SB DYNASTY EVER !!!!! Period.
SF was 4 in 7 years. Not good enough. Dallas was 3 in 4 years. Not good enough. Only Pats can possibly tie us if they win it this year.
Oh and by the way, Noll won the SB back-to-back not once but twice. So obviously he could give "the chin" some advice on avoiding the dreaded SB hangover.
I live in the great white north and have been a Steeler fanatic since the Immaculate Reception. I even named my son Bradshaw. So I've been around.

fansince'76
11-30-2006, 09:56 PM
I can't badmouth Cowher personally, because I feel he has (up until this season anyway) poured his guts into this franchise since he was first hired. IMO, the entire team has pretty much mailed it in this year. Frustrating, because they are a MUCH better team than what they've shown.

LambertLunatic
11-30-2006, 11:54 PM
Give me a break !!! You think Ben and Troy are HOFers because of what ???

Ah, but I never said that they were future HOFers, only that they (and Jerome) were potential HOFers.. Jerome is a lock to make it. Troy is a shoe-in if he continues to play as he has so far. Ben will make it if he plays a full carreer as well as he played his 1st 2 seasons..

As far as the comparison to Noll and Cowher are concerned, you are obviously young.

I wish.

Bottom line is this....4 SB in 6 years = the GREATEST SB DYNASTY EVER !!!!! Period.
SF was 4 in 7 years. Not good enough. Dallas was 3 in 4 years. Not good enough. Only Pats can possibly tie us if they win it this year.

Nobody is downplaying the dynasty we had. We had great talent on those teams. Noll helped pick those great draft picks in 69-72, and 74. Kudos to him for that. Although I believe Cowher to be the better coach, I never said that Noll was crappy.

Oh and by the way, Noll won the SB back-to-back not once but twice. So obviously he could give "the chin" some advice on avoiding the dreaded SB hangover.

Other than starting the 76 season 1-4, Noll WAS good at avoiding the SB hangover. Giving Noll the credit he deserves, the remainder of the 76 season was Noll's best coaching. Although they missed the SB that year, that team was unbeliveable!

I live in the great white north and have been a Steeler fanatic since the Immaculate Reception. I even named my son Bradshaw. So I've been around.

We both became Steeler fans at about the same time, I see. I never named a son Bradshaw, because both of my legitamit children were girls. I might have fathered a boy or 2 overseas while I was in the Navy, but we'll never know. Oh crap! Now watch some foreigner lady that got knocked up by a sailor back then come after me for back child support! :dang:

In no way was I critisizing Noll. He accomplished a lot. I just happen to disagree with you that he was a better coach than Cowher.

fansince'76
12-01-2006, 12:06 AM
Nobody is downplaying the dynasty we had. We had great talent on those teams. Noll helped pick those great draft picks in 69-72, and 74. Kudos to him for that. Although I believe Cowher to be the better coach, I never said that Noll was crappy....In no way was I critisizing Noll. He accomplished a lot. I just happen to disagree with you that he was a better coach than Cowher.

As great as his early drafts were, Noll also was responsible for the biggest personnel gaffe made by the Steelers since the cutting of Unitas - passing on Marino in the '83 draft.

Atlanta Dan
12-01-2006, 12:31 AM
As great as his early drafts were, Noll also was responsible for the biggest personnel gaffe made by the Steelers since the cutting of Unitas - passing on Marino in the '83 draft.

Seeing as Marino's senior year took place in Pittsburgh, Steelers front office personnel may not only have heard about but seen the alleged blizzard of partying by Marino during his senior year.

Marino was not drafted until the next to last pick in the first round by the Dolphins, who were coming off a Super Bowl appearance. Almost everyone passed on him for "lifestyle concerns" that I recall were quite valid.

fansince'76
12-01-2006, 12:35 AM
Seeing as Marino's senior year took place in Pittsburgh, Steelers front office personnel may not only have heard about but seen the alleged blizzard of partying by Marino during his senior year.

Marino was not drafted until the next to last pick in the first round by the Dolphins, who were coming off a Super Bowl appearance. Almost everyone passed on him for "lifestyle concerns" that I recall were quite valid.

Yep, I remember those "lifestyle concerns" well. Hindsight being 20/20, it was still a gigantic personnel mistake considering the scrubs we had playing at QB during Marino's career in Miami. What made it worse from the Steelers' perspective IMO is that Marino was FROM Pittsburgh.

Atlanta Dan
12-01-2006, 12:46 AM
Yep, I remember those "lifestyle concerns" well. Hindsight being 20/20, it was still a gigantic personnel mistake considering the scrubs we had playing at QB during Marino's career in Miami. What made it worse from the Steelers' perspective IMO is that Marino was FROM Pittsburgh.

Gabe Rivera was drafted at DT with the #1 pick that year in an attempt to anchor the defense and perhaps obtain a defensive cornerstone such as Joe Greene had been in his first draft. Rivera was tragically paralyzed in an auto accident in his first year in the NFL.

In addition, when the draft was held the Steelers did not know for sure Bradshaw was done. He had a good year in the '82 strike season, then had his elbow surgery that effectively ended his career (without the Steelers concurrence) in the '82-'83 offseason and after the '83 draft in which they passed on Marino. Bradshaw only played about one half that year before retiring in 1984.

Steelers drafted to fill an immediate need with the #1 pick in the '83 draft, which at that time was not QB and certainly was not going to result in picking someone with Marino's off field issues.

fansince'76
12-01-2006, 12:56 AM
Gabe Rivera was drafted at DT with the #1 pick that year in an attempt to anchor the defense and perhaps obtain a defensive cornerstone such as Joe Greene had been in his first draft. Rivera was tragically paralyzed in an auto accident in his first year in the NFL.

In addition, when the draft was held the Steelers did not know for sure Bradshaw was done. He had a good year in the '82 strike season, then had his elbow surgery that effectively ended his career (without the Steelers concurrence) in the '82-'83 offseason and after the '83 draft in which they passed on Marino. Bradshaw only played about one half that year before retiring in 1984.


Yep, I remember the "Senor Sack" (Rivera) story too - we seemed to be a snake-bitten franchise in the 80's for whatever reason. And it seems to me that Bradshaw was already starting to have problems with the elbow that eventually caused his retirement(?) Was a long time ago now and my memory may be a bit fuzzy on that part of it. Like I said, hindsight is 20/20 - we definitely needed help on the D and it seemed to be the logical decision at the time, but it seems like such a mistake now. However, Noll was responsible for the '74 draft (still the best ever for ANY team) and you can't win 'em all.