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83-Steelers-43
12-04-2006, 07:01 AM
Smizik: Ugly win nothing to brag about
Monday, December 04, 2006

By Bob Smizik, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Out of the stench of as ugly a win as you might ever see in the National Football League, came a tiny sliver of false optimism concerning the Steelers. Only the hopelessly optimistic would make anything of it, but, when it comes to the Steelers, there are large numbers of such believers.

The thinking goes something like this:

Since the Steelers, who are 5-7, have won three of their past four, they're peaking at just the right time. Which, of course, brings to mind last season, when they rallied from the brink of playoff extinction to a Super Bowl championship.

Dare we dream they might do it again? No, no, a zillion times no.

It's true the Steelers have won three of four, including a 20-3 squashing of the hopelessly inept Tampa Bay Buccaneers yesterday at Heinz Field, but these victories really don't offer much hope. That was particularly true of yesterday's fiasco where the Steelers did next to nothing to distinguish themselves. Normally, a 20-3 win in the NFL is a victory to brag about, but not against the Buccaneers.

The Steelers have seen some awful teams this year, but none approaches the level of putridness that is the calling card of the Buccaneers. Poor Bruce Gradkowski, the Dormont kid who came back to his home town as a starter in his rookie NFL season. With no running game behind him and with little protection in front of him, Gradkowski rarely had a chance. His best moment came midway through the third quarter, with his team only down by 10, when he perfectly threw to wide receiver Michael Clayton, who was all by himself on the Steelers' 15. Clayton dropped the ball.

The point is this: A win against the Buccaneers, be it a shutout or by 40 points, is no indication of playoff readiness

What remains particularly alarming about the plight of the Steelers is that for the third consecutive game the team that is supposed to live by the run has shown no ability whatsoever to run. And this time it wasn't the Baltimore Ravens, the stern defense that stifled the Steelers last week, but the Buccaneers, who were 23rd in overall defense in the NFL and 20th against the run.

Against this defense, and with a lead for 45 minutes of the game, the Steelers could gain only 76 yards on 31 carries, a miserable 2.4-yard average. It was a familiar refrain. Against the Ravens' superior defense, the Steelers gained 21 yards on 11 carries. A week earlier against the Cleveland Browns, the Steelers ran 20 times for 77 yards.

Worse than those numbers has been the ineffectiveness of Willie Parker, who went into the game as the fourth-leading rusher in the AFC. Only a late surge gave Parker 61 yards on 22 carries. On his first 14 carries, he managed only 20 yards. A week earlier against the Ravens, Parker gained 22 yards on 10 carries. Facing the Browns, he ran 16 times for 46 yards.

Fast Willie is becoming Two-Yard Willie.

This is disquieting not only because of what has transpired recently but what it means for the future. Without the run, the Steelers aren't the Steelers.

Tampa Bay went so easily that it took almost nothing from the Steelers' offense to accomplish the victory. Not only was Parker shut down, but Ben Roethlisberger continued to be mediocre. He completed 12 of 25 passes for 198 yards, two touchdowns and one interception. His passer rating was 85.1.

His performance was such that coach Bill Cowher damned him with faint praise. He cited Roethlisberger as playing "a very solid game."

Had Roethlisberger performed in a similar solid fashion in the Steelers' first three playoff games last season, the team would not have gotten close to the Super Bowl.

For those who are still in love with the three wins in the past four games, here are some facts they should know: The following nine AFC teams have better records than the Steelers: New England, New York, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, San Diego, Denver and Kansas City. These three AFC teams have records equal to the Steelers: Tennessee, Buffalo Miami.

One more fact: Six teams make the playoffs.

It's sad but true -- the Steelers are bottom-feeders in the AFC. Three wins out of four hasn't changed that. Dreamers might suspect that the Steelers can win out and at least be in consideration for a playoff bid. But after a game Thursday against Cleveland, there are no more Tampa Bays on the schedule. There are real football teams: Carolina, Baltimore and Cincinnati, all with winning records. All, by almost every indicator, better than the Steelers.

The team that has won three out of four is looking hard at losing three out of four.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06338/743409-194.stm

Infamix
12-04-2006, 07:49 AM
Damn he threw them under the BUS

83-Steelers-43
12-04-2006, 07:55 AM
Damn he threw them under the BUS

While at the same time putting things into perspective. Unfortunately, the truth hurts. Good article for the most part. As for yesterday's game, I'll take the "W" even though it was one ugly and painful football game to sit through.

HometownGal
12-04-2006, 08:06 AM
While it is true that the Steelers are not mathematically eliminated just yet for a playoff spot, the chances of that happening this season are slim and none and I think most fans realize that. However, it was nice getting that win yesterday, no matter how hapless the team we were playing is. In a season as dismal as this one has been, any W is a bright spot and rather than sulk about not being playoff bound this season, I'll take it and be grateful. :tt02:

Atlanta Dan
12-04-2006, 08:46 AM
A win is better than a loss, but Smizik points out that in terms of the future of this team a growing concern is the inability to run the ball.

Davenport has shown some sparks but I do not know if he is the long term answer at power back.

Willie Parker is a talent but in terms of running clock to hold a lead (the Steelers offensive game plan since Cowher arrived for every year except 2003 and 2006) Parker's talents, as many other posters have observed, do not appear to be a good fit for that role. Maybe it would help if he did not need to run on a sandlot for his home games.

Once the coaching situation is resolved it is going to be a very interesting offseason.

Ambridge
12-04-2006, 08:47 AM
That article was right on the money!!

Surprised Smizik didn't mention how Cowher puts Batch in late in the game but lets Ben take an ass-beating for the entire game the week before against Baltimore.

floodcitygirl
12-04-2006, 08:49 AM
I agree with you HTG. I personally enjoyed being able to enjoy a win and relax for a change!

HometownGal
12-04-2006, 09:08 AM
That article was right on the money!!

Surprised Smizik didn't mention how Cowher puts Batch in late in the game but lets Ben take an ass-beating for the entire game the week before against Baltimore.

You bunch of killjoys! :wink02: :flap: I'm not looking ahead to next season just yet - there's still 4 games to be played this season and it is what it is, though as I said, I'll take the W no matter who we played and how we won. My TV got a break yesterday from the foil balls and it was grateful too. :smile:

Seriously, Ambridge - with the way our OL was manhandled by the Ravens' D in that game, do you honestly believe any other QB wouldn't have been pummeled as well? Hell - put Joe Montana back there behind that OL in that game and he would have been battered and deep fried too. While I agree that Cowher should have made a change at QB possibly at the half to try and give the team a spark, I don't think it really would have made any difference in that particular game. Just mho.

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-04-2006, 09:19 AM
I agree with the Meat & Potato portion of Smizik's article but as usual he has to try and shock his readers with smattering of inflamatory comments. Regardless of the validity, he can get his point across without such statements as:

...the stench of as ugly a win as you might ever see
... the Steelers are bottom-feeders in the AFC....
There are real football teams: Carolina, Baltimore and Cincinnati.....

I just imagine Smizik smuggly chuckling to himself at his little typewriter thinking.."that should piss some people off..."

Again you cant guestion his facts...just his approach. His writing is often the social equavalent of telling someone they have B.O. in front of their co-workers....or the comedic equavelent of Beavis and Butthead.

Thanks for the facts Bob...and dont pull the punches, if we are bad..call us bad....but try and reign in on the shock-value...If we wanted that, we would have Howard Stern cover our sports.

Infamix
12-04-2006, 09:20 AM
A win is better than a loss, but Smizik points out that in terms of the future of this team a growing concern is the inability to run the ball.

Davenport has shown some sparks but I do not know if he is the long term answer at power back.

Willie Parker is a talent but in terms of running clock to hold a lead (the Steelers offensive game plan since Cowher arrived for every year except 2003 and 2006) Parker's talents, as many other posters have observed, do not appear to be a good fit for that role. Maybe it would help if he did not need to run on a sandlot for his home games.

Once the coaching situation is resolved it is going to be a very interesting offseason.


That's the offensive line's fault, did you watch the game? Defenses have been in our backfield before Willie even gets the ball.

Ambridge
12-04-2006, 09:23 AM
You bunch of killjoys! :wink02: :flap: I'm not looking ahead to next season just yet - there's still 4 games to be played this season and it is what it is, though as I said, I'll take the W no matter who we played and how we won. My TV got a break yesterday from the foil balls and it was grateful too. :smile:

Seriously, Ambridge - with the way our OL was manhandled by the Ravens' D in that game, do you honestly believe any other QB wouldn't have been pummeled as well? Hell - put Joe Montana back there behind that OL in that game and he would have been battered and deep fried too. While I agree that Cowher should have made a change at QB possibly at the half to try and give the team a spark, I don't think it really would have made any difference in that particular game. Just mho.

I totally agree with you that whoever would have been playing QB would have been bounced around but with Ben being the franchise QB and having taken some hard shots already in the Balitmore game I think Cowher should have exercised some caution and taken Ben out especially the way things were spiraling out of control.

Were on the same page and I'd love to see them win the last four games and salvage a 9-7 season but it will be a very, very tall order to fill.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-04-2006, 10:31 AM
I totally agree with you that whoever would have been playing QB would have been bounced around but with Ben being the franchise QB and having taken some hard shots already in the Balitmore game I think Cowher should have exercised some caution and taken Ben out especially the way things were spiraling out of control.

Were on the same page and I'd love to see them win the last four games and salvage a 9-7 season but it will be a very, very tall order to fill.

I agree Ben should have been pulled from the Ravens game in the 4th quarter. The game was already lost and it served no purpose to let Ben get his ass kicked. That was the final straw with me regarding Bill Cowher. Putting Ben's health at risk when there was no need. Thats why I'm hoping just four more games with Bill Cowher.

I'm a Steelers fan first. The Steelers will remain but players/coaches come and they go. I have no loyalty to anyone player or coach over the team.

Atlanta Dan
12-04-2006, 10:47 AM
That's the offensive line's fault, did you watch the game? Defenses have been in our backfield before Willie even gets the ball.

As you recall, Parker was not the clock killer back in the playoff wins last season, when the offensive line was playing well.

It is all well and good to lay it all on the offensive line, but IMHO Parker's talents (which I do not deny he has) do not include grinding out yards. Since that has been how the Steelers have played ball for the last 15 years (Foster/Morris/Bettis), I humbly suggest it is an issue that needs to be addressed in the offseason by either modifying the offensive philosophy or, at a minimum, assessing whether the personnel fit whatever offensive strategy is implemented. Even the Chargers mix up LT with another back.

HometownGal
12-04-2006, 10:52 AM
I agree Ben should have been pulled from the Ravens game in the 4th quarter. The game was already lost and it served no purpose to let Ben get his ass kicked. That was the final straw with me regarding Bill Cowher. Putting Ben's health at risk when there was no need. Thats why I'm hoping just four more games with Bill Cowher.

I'm a Steelers fan first. The Steelers will remain but players/coaches come and they go. I have no loyalty to anyone player or coach over the team.

I think Cowher's mentality here, Dan, was that your franchise/starting QB gives you the best chance at winning a football game, as he not only has game experience with the rest of the first teamers, but takes most of the reps in practice. From accounts I read after the Baltimore game, as well as post-game interviews, Ben wanted to go back in there and try to get something going - I can't fault him for that or Cowher for backing his QB's motivation, though as I said above, I wouldn't have minded seeing Batch brought in to try to spark the team and throw the Rats D off a little. Again, though, I seriously doubt if Batch would have done better behind the OL. If Cowher had given up on winning that game at the beginning of the 4th Q, even though it seemed impossible being down by 24 points, then he shouldn't be an NFL HC, much less the coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I believe Cowher left Ben in that game because Ben gave the Steelers the best opportunity to win the game, even with all of his blunders that day.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-04-2006, 10:58 AM
I think Cowher's mentality here, Dan, was that your franchise/starting QB gives you the best chance at winning a football game, as he not only has game experience with the rest of the first teamers, but takes most of the reps in practice. From accounts I read after the Baltimore game, as well as post-game interviews, Ben wanted to go back in there and try to get something going - I can't fault him for that or Cowher for backing his QB's motivation, though as I said above, I wouldn't have minded seeing Batch brought in to try to spark the team and throw the Rats D off a little. Again, though, I seriously doubt if Batch would have done better behind the OL. If Cowher had given up on winning that game at the beginning of the 4th Q, even though it seemed impossible being down by 24 points, then he shouldn't be an NFL HC, much less the coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I believe Cowher left Ben in that game because Ben gave the Steelers the best opportunity to win the game, even with all of his blunders that day.

I understand all of this and I would tend to agree if this had been a normal year. But Ben has had alot of health issues since his motorcycle accident. The game was over heading into the 4th quarter and it served no purpose to put Ben in further risk (health wise) in a meaningless game. I was worried about Ben's health in that game. Hell I wouldn't even want Batch to get his ass kicked like that. I understand that no players want to be pulled from a game. Hell I wouldn't want a player that had an attitude like that. But Cowher is still the coach and I'm sorry he put Ben's health at risk when sending him out there when the game was lost anyway. I think we all would be singing a different tune if Ben would have suffered another concussion.

tony hipchest
12-04-2006, 11:02 AM
I agree Ben should have been pulled from the Ravens game in the 4th quarter. The game was already lost and it served no purpose to let Ben get his ass kicked. That was the final straw with me regarding Bill Cowher. Putting Ben's health at risk when there was no need. Thats why I'm hoping just four more games with Bill Cowher.

I'm a Steelers fan first. The Steelers will remain but players/coaches come and they go. I have no loyalty to anyone player or coach over the team.

holy cow! people seem so concerned with "bens health". i guess cowher shouldve ran batch out their and risk HIS health. infact maybe cowher shouldve pulled his whole team off the field and go home after the 3rd quarter. it serves no purpose to leave them all out there to get their asses kicked right?

listen, ben is a grown man who CHOSES to play football. it is a violent game where there is risk of injury for EVERY player on ANY play. yet people wanna act like theyre his parents and tell him to sit. he doesnt get paid to sit. he will tell you this himself.

the same weekend people were calling for ben to sit we see a rookie vince young score 3 td's in the final 10 minutes to defeat the giants. should shottenheimer have sat LT and philip rivers when they were getting blown out by the bengals? for crying out loud the ravens arent football Gods, yet some steelerfans are acting scared of their bullying, pain inflicting, power. the steelers might as well not even show up on christmas eve. :rolleyes: just forfeit the game. we dont wanna get hurt. :rolleyes: the ravens are beatable as shown last thursday night.

i too am a steelers fan first. but i have no loyalty for a team that is gonna act like scared little girls and fold up the tent on a game or the season. just because theyre getting beat doesnt mean they should quit, go ride the pine, and suck their thumbs. the steelers will act like men and take their loss like a man.

coachspeak33
12-04-2006, 11:07 AM
thank you tony.... ben is a tough sonuvagun.... i liked him more after the ass kickin in Baltimore than I did before.... A guy like ODonnell would have packed it in and said "Oh the hell with it.... I am getting my ass on the sideline"

Black@Gold Forever32
12-04-2006, 11:07 AM
Tony whatever the ****ing game was 27-0 heading into the 4th quarter and over. I never said the Ravens were not beatable. But the Steelers were not going to beat the Ravens that day. No shit Ben gets paid to play football. What a great ****ing statement by the great Tony ****ing Hipchest. But putting the future of the Steelers in risk when there was no need was stupid. The game was over you tool. Just more proof that Cowher doesn't care since he won't be back next year.

No go run and report me like the little girl you are.

tony hipchest
12-04-2006, 11:09 AM
As you recall, Parker was not the clock killer back in the playoff wins last season, when the offensive line was playing well.

It is all well and good to lay it all on the offensive line, but IMHO Parker's talents (which I do not deny he has) do not include grinding out yards. Since that has been how the Steelers have played ball for the last 15 years (Foster/Morris/Bettis), I humbly suggest it is an issue that needs to be addressed in the offseason by either modifying the offensive philosophy or, at a minimum, assessing whether the personnel fit whatever offensive strategy is implemented. Even the Chargers mix up LT with another back.i agree dan. i dont think any other team out there would try to turn willie parker into jerome bettis yet thats exactly what the steelers have tried to do. i gotta hand it to willie, hes done everything that has been aske and as good as physically possible. he has bulked up, learned all the offense and reads in the line (probably shouldnt be the blocking back at this point) and stayed very healthy for the whole season.

this is why i asked the question if the rooneys and fans are married to this "power run game" that has been our image for so long. willie could be a great marshall faulk type runner, but faulk didnt play in a smashmouth offense.

coachspeak33
12-04-2006, 11:09 AM
Exhibit A - as to why ODonnell was never a true champion and Ben is

tony hipchest
12-04-2006, 11:16 AM
No go run and report me like the little girl you are.sorry you got me confused with your buddy across the pond. i can hold my own, thank you.

you were scared of the big, bad, mean, ravens and thats ok. you seem to wanna root for quitters. bens not a pu$$ and cowher doesnt coach like a pu$$. if cowher pulls his players that just sends the ravens a message that when we get hit in the mouth we will fall to the ground in the fetal position and cry. the ravens know we will give it our all for 60 minutes.

im not suprised you want a coach that will throw in the towel with a 1/4 of the game to play. you want a team to throw in the towel with 1/4 of the season to play, just for a top 5pick.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-04-2006, 11:23 AM
sorry you got me confused with your buddy across the pond. i can hold my own, thank you.

you were scared of the big, bad, mean, ravens and thats ok. you seem to wanna root for quitters. bens not a pu$$ and cowher doesnt coach like a pu$$. if cowher pulls his players that just sends the ravens a message that when we get hit in the mouth we will fall to the ground in the fetal position and cry. the ravens know we will give it our all for 60 minutes.

im not suprised you want a coach that will throw in the towel with a 1/4 of the game to play. you want a team to throw in the towel with 1/4 of the season to play, just for a top 5pick.

Never said I was scared of the Ravens or of anybody. News flash Tony, Ben was in a motorcycle accident, had an appendix out, and suffered another concussion against the Falcons. So Ben isn't a ***** by no means. Just saying it serves no purpose to put Ben in anymore risk when the game was over. Now if Ben had a clean bill of health all year then I would have no problem with leaving Ben out there. But why subject him to risks when the game is over? He is the future Tony. You want to ruin his career before it even really begins?

HometownGal
12-04-2006, 11:24 AM
I understand all of this and I would tend to agree if this had been a normal year. But Ben has had alot of health issues since his motorcycle accident. The game was over heading into the 4th quarter and it served no purpose to put Ben in further risk (health wise) in a meaningless game. I was worried about Ben's health in that game. Hell I wouldn't even want Batch to get his ass kicked like that. I understand that no players want to be pulled from a game. Hell I wouldn't want a player that had an attitude like that. But Cowher is still the coach and I'm sorry he put Ben's health at risk when sending him out there when the game was lost anyway. I think we all would be singing a different tune if Ben would have suffered another concussion.

I get where you're coming from, hon, but I still maintain that as a coach, you put the players out there on that field who give your team the best opportunity to win and in a game against one of the top D's in the league, Ben was the QB who gave the Steelers the best opportunity to win that game. Can you imagine the backlash from the media and fans if Cowher had thrown in the towel at the start of the 4thQ, not to mention the wrong message it would have sent to the team? I don't think any NFL HC worth his salt would toss it in being behind 24 points with an entire 15 minutes left on the clock, no matter how poorly his team is playing or how much his QB is getting hammered. As sad as it is to say, Ben is being paid a king's ransom to get in there and take his lumps and the kid wanted to be in that game - I gotta respect him for that decision. I'm one of the few around here who feel Ben shouldn't have played at all this season and especially not after his second brain scrambling, but that isn't my call - it's Ben's with the blessing of both his physicians and coaches. (I'm a fine one to talk after some of the things I did after my surgeries and concussions, but my stubborness and stupiditiy didn't affect anyone but ME). Ben believed he could go back in there and rally his teammates and Cowher backed him on that belief - I really can't fault either of them in that situation.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-04-2006, 11:29 AM
Hometown but anybody that watched that game knew that Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas in their prime could have done nothing against the Ravens that day. But Cowher could have pulled Ben and said that he put Batch in to get a spark. But deep down just pull him from a health stand point. Just saying the game was over and coaches all the time pull the starting QB in blow outs.

HometownGal
12-04-2006, 12:04 PM
Hometown but anybody that watched that game knew that Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas in their prime could have done nothing against the Ravens that day. But Cowher could have pulled Ben and said that he put Batch in to get a spark. But deep down just pull him from a health stand point. Just saying the game was over and coaches all the time pull the starting QB in blow outs.

Never say never, my friend. If Cowher and the team had thrown in the towel last season when our playoff chances looked pretty dim, we wouldn't have experienced that memorable ride and watching Mr. Rooney, Cowher and the team hoisting up that 5th Lombardi. :tt02: :wink02: I just believe as a coach, you gotta give it your best shot from the opening kickoff until the final second ticks off that clock, no matter how adverse the situation appears - utilizing your best players if they are healthy enough to play, which Ben obviously was in that game, even though he was being torpedoed right and left. A coach expects his team to give it their all for 60 minutes and that applies to the coaching staff, as well. I don't think Cowher or the team physician would risk jeopardizing Ben's health deliberately to win a game, but as a coach, if your franchise QB says he is fine and wants to get back in there to try to get something going, I have to support that decision.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-04-2006, 12:11 PM
Hometown I don't question your opinion at all and agree with your post. Its just this hasn't been a normal year for Ben. The guy has had alot on his plate this year and when the game was out of hand I just felt it served no purpose to subject Ben to further risks. Like I said I really don't disagree with you and if Ben hadn't gone through all he has this year. Then I would have no problem with him being out there the whole game. But hey its in the past and done with.

sumo
12-04-2006, 12:30 PM
the most worrisome thing to me (I know most of you touched on this already) is the trend with our running game - what is going on? Earlier this year I thought we were getting it together, but man - these last 3 games have been absolutely brutal!! - Willie's impatient and the line looks like it's moving in slow motion on some plays - no movement off the ball, guys pulling and falling down or missing blocks altogether - if I was Cowher, I would get out the blocking sleds and focus on nothing but run blocking all week...the most beautiful play for me last year was Willie's run in the Superbowl - not just because it was a long run, but because the blocking scheme and technique was perfect from every lineman on that play - hard to believe not even a year has passed ....

SteelerMurf
12-04-2006, 12:46 PM
He should be concentrating on the offensive line. Willie can't run without a hole. Ben can't sit in the pocket and throw cause has to run for his life.

and he doesn't mention anything about the #1 and #2 WRs being out in regards to Ben. I thought Ben played fine. A couple bad throws, but EVERY QB in the NFL throws a couple bad passes a game.

seems we have some stupid standard that Ben cannot throw a bad ball. Why are expectations such that Ben has to play absolutely perfect to consider having a good game?

sumo
12-04-2006, 12:56 PM
He should be concentrating on the offensive line. Willie can't run without a hole. Ben can't sit in the pocket and throw cause has to run for his life.

and he doesn't mention anything about the #1 and #2 WRs being out in regards to Ben. I thought Ben played fine. A couple bad throws, but EVERY QB in the NFL throws a couple bad passes a game.

seems we have some stupid standard that Ben cannot throw a bad ball. Why are expectations such that Ben has to play absolutely perfect to consider having a good game?

I agree - I think Ben is playing good - but nothing will help Ben more than a running game and ours is non-existent right now..

BigDuke6
12-04-2006, 02:30 PM
I agree - I think Ben is playing good - but nothing will help Ben more than a running game and ours is non-existent right now..

As Ive been saying, hard to believe this O-Line is the same guys we rode all the way to SB XL and the same that sent 3 t Hawaii in 2004.

plenewken
12-04-2006, 02:50 PM
As Ive been saying, hard to believe this O-Line is the same guys we rode all the way to SB XL and the same that sent 3 t Hawaii in 2004.

I've been watching Starks very closely the last 3 or 4 weeks and I tell you what, he's terrible. He does absolutely NOTHING on the field and is a total liability for the offense. Cut him for Christ's sake.

tony hipchest
12-04-2006, 11:58 PM
Just saying the game was over and coaches all the time pull the starting QB in blow outs.here you go, a quote from your boy brady in regards to last weekends game:

: Did you feel like you could always comeback to win the game, despite being down?
TB: Did we always feel we could? Yes. Anytime there is time left on the clock we think we can.

so anyways, how come 'chick didnt pull brady in the green bay blow out? the game was over and brady is the future of their franchise. brady is hurt (bum shoulder- hes been on the injury report every week this year) and risked further injury.

you can so easilly bash ben and cowher, but will you dare say anything anti-patriot, when the same shoe is on their foot? if coaches do it "all the time" how come the coach you hold in such high regards didnt do it?

Livinginthe past
12-05-2006, 12:05 AM
here you go, a quote from your boy brady in regards to last weekends game:



so anyways, how come 'chick didnt pull brady in the green bay blow out? the game was over and brady is the future of their franchise. brady is hurt (bum shoulder- hes been on the injury report every week this year) and risked further injury.

you can so easilly bash ben and cowher, but will you dare say anything anti-patriot, when the same shoe is on their foot? if coaches do it "all the time" how come the coach you hold in such high regards didnt do it?

I field this easy one.

Brady's O-line wasn't getting totally owned by the Green Bay defense, hence a much lower chance of injury.

Ben was in real danger of having his head seperated fom his shoulders a number of times vs the Ravens.

NM

tony hipchest
12-05-2006, 12:48 AM
I field this easy one. :sofunny: (ok Grog)

Brady's O-line wasn't getting totally owned by the Green Bay defense, hence a much lower chance of injury.

Ben was in real danger of having his head seperated fom his shoulders a number of times vs the Ravens.

NMbwahahaha! i knew it. i mentioned the patriots and it was just a matter of time before bitp (Buttinginthe post) chimed in. if you re-read you will see how the subject was pulling qb's in a blow out.

reading comprehension fails you again! :busted: lol

Originally Posted by Black and Gold Forever 32
Just saying the game was over and coaches all the time pull the starting QB in blow outs.


think before you type :dang:

Livinginthe past
12-05-2006, 08:14 AM
bwahahaha! i knew it. i mentioned the patriots and it was just a matter of time before bitp (Buttinginthe post) chimed in. if you re-read you will see how the subject was pulling qb's in a blow out.

reading comprehension fails you again! :busted: lol



think before you type :dang:

Well, basic common sense fails you, Tony.

In case you didnt remember, the Patriots were in the process of winning easily against Green Bay, whilst the Steelers were being humiliated by the Ravens.

You can see the difference between those situations can't you?

Good.

NM

tony hipchest
12-05-2006, 10:04 AM
Well, basic common sense fails you, Tony.

In case you didnt remember, the Patriots were in the process of winning easily against Green Bay, whilst the Steelers were being humiliated by the Ravens.

You can see the difference between those situations can't you?

Good.

NMspin away. youre the master. see, i have the facts to back me up. the only difference in the 2 blowouts being discussed is about 8 points. typically it is the winning qb who gets removed in a blowout (looks like 'chick dropped the ball on this one and risked further injury to his franchise).

case in point: steelers vs cheifs 06 ben gets pulled in a blowout. steelers vs tennessee 05, ben gets pulled so maddox can mop up. steelers vs texans 05, maddox mops up again.

as ive already proven in a seperate thread, qb's typically dont get pulled for a single bad performance, a blow out or just for the sake of getting pulled if they are to remain the teams starting qb. out of 175 games now weve seen it maybe 3 times. carr, b. johnson, and maybe 1 more.

now that we have established that you are clearly wrong, i give you the opportunity to back up this crazy assertion: Brady's O-line wasn't getting totally owned by the Green Bay defense, hence a much lower chance of injury.

Ben was in real danger of having his head seperated fom his shoulders a number of times vs the Ravens.

i havent noticed a higher rate of players being injured in ravens games vs. all other games, and i definitely havent seen them send qb's off on a stretcher every week. i will contend that the chance of injury is the same week in and week out regardless of a close game or a blow out, winning team or losing team. its football. injuries happen. players are trying to take players heads off in EVERY game.

if what you and black n gold forever say is true then the packers had no business sending farve out there with his porous line against a dirty patriots team. they had to know he was gonna get injured, right, since the chances were so much greater? and once farve was injured the coach should be fired for not only letting farve even start, but for sending aaron rodgers out there to meet the same fate as farve. he jeopardized this kids career when he couldve just packed it up and forfeited the game. :rolleyes:

i really dont expect these points to be addressed, just more spin and deflection.

Livinginthe past
12-05-2006, 11:00 AM
spin away. youre the master. see, i have the facts to back me up. the only difference in the 2 blowouts being discussed is about 8 points. typically it is the winning qb who gets removed in a blowout (looks like 'chick dropped the ball on this one and risked further injury to his franchise).

My whole point was that your comparison was completely off between Brady and Roethlisberger.

B&G32 made the point that Ben should have been benched in order to save him from yet another injury - and seeing as he had already been sacked 9 times and the Steelers were trailing 27-0 (and forced into pass only situations) it would seem likely that the QB would be in for more punishment.

Once the Patriots were 28-0 up against the Packers , Brady threw only 5 more passes in the 4th quarter (one for a TD) and was replaced by Cassel for a series and then Testeverde for the last series

case in point: steelers vs cheifs 06 ben gets pulled in a blowout. steelers vs tennessee 05, ben gets pulled so maddox can mop up. steelers vs texans 05, maddox mops up again.

Again, you are using examples of Ben being pulled when he is leading a game, not when he is behind and there is a threat of yet another injury.

as ive already proven in a seperate thread, qb's typically dont get pulled for a single bad performance, a blow out or just for the sake of getting pulled if they are to remain the teams starting qb. out of 175 games now weve seen it maybe 3 times. carr, b. johnson, and maybe 1 more.

Again, the point 32 was trying to make is that Ben should be pulled to save him from injury, not because he was playing poorly.

now that we have established that you are clearly wrong, i give you the opportunity to back up this crazy assertion: i havent noticed a higher rate of players being injured in ravens games vs. all other games, and i definitely havent seen them send qb's off on a stretcher every week. i will contend that the chance of injury is the same week in and week out regardless of a close game or a blow out, winning team or losing team. its football. injuries happen. players are trying to take players heads off in EVERY game.

Its seems logical to me that the chances of getting injured are alot higher when you are playing a team that has already sacked your franchise QB 9 times.

The chances of a QB being injured are surely higher when he is forced into predictable passing plays - the D can tee-off on him.

Again, that seems obvious to me even if to doesn't seem obvious to you.

if what you and black n gold forever say is true then the packers had no business sending farve out there with his porous line against a dirty patriots team. they had to know he was gonna get injured, right, since the chances were so much greater? and once farve was injured the coach should be fired for not only letting farve even start, but for sending aaron rodgers out there to meet the same fate as farve. he jeopardized this kids career when he couldve just packed it up and forfeited the game. :rolleyes:

i really dont expect these points to be addressed, just more spin and deflection.

The Favre situation and the Ben situation were very different scenarios

Ben is the franchise QB and will probably remain so for the next 4/5 years mimimum.

Brett Favre is very much on his last legs - Aaron Rodgers was drafted to replace Favre (eventually)

NM

83-Steelers-43
12-05-2006, 11:10 AM
In a game where his o-line was playing absolutely horrible which led to his running game being absolutely horrible which led to more pass plays which led to Ben getting killed out on the field, IMO, Cowher should have taken him out. I've seen a coach pull a QB after four INT's simply because he was having a bad day, why wouldn't you take him out if your QB is either getting rushed or sacked (on one play wondering if he would get up) on what seemed like every other down? I don't care if Ben came up to him and stated "I feel great coach!!!", it's your responsibility to make the decision for your franchise QB and team investment.

With me, it had nothing to do with his play or the score of the game. It came down to the kids well being and the team investment.

tony hipchest
12-05-2006, 11:44 AM
My whole point was that your comparison was completely off between Brady and Roethlisberger.

B&G32 made the point that Ben should have been benched in order to save him from yet another injury - and seeing as he had already been sacked 9 times and the Steelers were trailing 27-0 (and forced into pass only situations) it would seem likely that the QB would be in for more punishment.



NMand this is the point i take the stance against. heres why:

bens "injury" was that he had the wind knocked out of him (God forbid he gets a bloody nose- he did have facial surgery recently :rolleyes:). as correctly reported he was hit in the sternum which typically knocks the wind out of someone. i dont know if you have had the wind knocked out but it is very uncomfortable. i dont think ben was even listed on the injury report for the buc's game. if so, it wouldve been listed as probable.

if you watched the game last night, the exact same thing happenend to jeff garcia. he writhed around on the ground as if he were dying. feeley started warming up on the sidelines. garcia caught his breath, shook it off, and continued to play some pretty good football.

lisa zimmerman (beat writer for the jets) quoted chad pennington getting the wind knocked out of him several weeks back. he said he laid there on the ground hoping this wasnt "it" and that he wasnt gonna die right there out on the field. to me it sounded like he had never experienced the wind being knocked out of him. its not a serious medical issue and usually goes away within a minute or 2, with a little soreness at the point of contact.

on the flipside is steve mcnair who had his sternum cracked in half while he was with the titans. but you know what? there was no risk for further injury so jeff fisher ran him out there for the remainder of the games and he had surgery in the off season to correct the problem.

anyways, ben gets paid to play, he wants to play, they issue him all the proper pads, enforce a helmet rule, and take all the precautions that players arent injured in the nfl. but it still happens. these are grown men and not girl scouts. i dont want a girl scout qb'ing my team. i want a champion and a fighter. like brady said "if theres time on the clock, i think we can win." im sure he would feel the same even if he were hurt.

there is a difference between playing hurt and playing injured. you hear great retired players and current coaches talk about it all the time. there is an unwritten code in the nfl that you find out who the ballers are by those who play hurt. a coach will not force a player to play injured, but it is an expected part of the job to play hurt. im sure you will deny this and say that playing injured and playing hurt are the EXACT same thing. maybe you will pull the semantics card. but fact of the matter is EVERY coach in the nfl (current and past) will tell you the same thing i just did, as will all the players.

in conclusion ben was NOT injured, he got hurt, and was at no further (or greater) risk of injury than when he took his 1st snap in the 1st quarter.

(see how a football conversation can go when you dont make it personal?)

tony hipchest
12-05-2006, 11:55 AM
In a game where his o-line was playing absolutely horrible which led to his running game being absolutely horrible which led to more pass plays which led to Ben getting killed out on the field, IMO, Cowher should have taken him out. I've seen a coach pull a QB after four INT's simply because he was having a bad day, why wouldn't you take him out if your QB is either getting rushed or sacked (on one play wondering if he would get up) on what seemed like every other down? I don't care if Ben came up to him and stated "I feel great coach!!!", it's your responsibility to make the decision for your franchise QB and team investment.

With me, it had nothing to do with his play or the score of the game. It came down to the kids well being and the team investment.

Cowher- "Hey Charlie. Youre in. Ben is getting killed out there. Youre cold, older, and less mobile than ben. We think you can provide a spark."

Batch- "Uhhhhh, thanks coach?"

in all seriousness it was the o-line and the backs responsible for picking up rushers who deserved to be yanked. but you just cant do that.

83-Steelers-43
12-05-2006, 11:57 AM
Cowher- "Hey Charlie. Youre in. Ben is getting killed out there. Youre cold, older, and less mobile than ben. We think you can provide a spark."

Batch- "Uhhhhh, thanks coach?"

Cowher - "Charlie, do what you get paid to do, get in there and give our future and supposed "franchise QB" a break. He's having a long day."

Batch - "Sure thing coach, that's what I get paid to do!!!"

Livinginthe past
12-05-2006, 04:28 PM
and this is the point i take the stance against. heres why:

bens "injury" was that he had the wind knocked out of him (God forbid he gets a bloody nose- he did have facial surgery recently :rolleyes:). as correctly reported he was hit in the sternum which typically knocks the wind out of someone. i dont know if you have had the wind knocked out but it is very uncomfortable. i dont think ben was even listed on the injury report for the buc's game. if so, it wouldve been listed as probable.

if you watched the game last night, the exact same thing happenend to jeff garcia. he writhed around on the ground as if he were dying. feeley started warming up on the sidelines. garcia caught his breath, shook it off, and continued to play some pretty good football.

lisa zimmerman (beat writer for the jets) quoted chad pennington getting the wind knocked out of him several weeks back. he said he laid there on the ground hoping this wasnt "it" and that he wasnt gonna die right there out on the field. to me it sounded like he had never experienced the wind being knocked out of him. its not a serious medical issue and usually goes away within a minute or 2, with a little soreness at the point of contact.

on the flipside is steve mcnair who had his sternum cracked in half while he was with the titans. but you know what? there was no risk for further injury so jeff fisher ran him out there for the remainder of the games and he had surgery in the off season to correct the problem.

anyways, ben gets paid to play, he wants to play, they issue him all the proper pads, enforce a helmet rule, and take all the precautions that players arent injured in the nfl. but it still happens. these are grown men and not girl scouts. i dont want a girl scout qb'ing my team. i want a champion and a fighter. like brady said "if theres time on the clock, i think we can win." im sure he would feel the same even if he were hurt.

there is a difference between playing hurt and playing injured. you hear great retired players and current coaches talk about it all the time. there is an unwritten code in the nfl that you find out who the ballers are by those who play hurt. a coach will not force a player to play injured, but it is an expected part of the job to play hurt. im sure you will deny this and say that playing injured and playing hurt are the EXACT same thing. maybe you will pull the semantics card. but fact of the matter is EVERY coach in the nfl (current and past) will tell you the same thing i just did, as will all the players.

in conclusion ben was NOT injured, he got hurt, and was at no further (or greater) risk of injury than when he took his 1st snap in the 1st quarter.

(see how a football conversation can go when you dont make it personal?)


Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

If the season is on the line, or its a playoff game, there is no way you pull your No.1 QB - granted.

But most Pittsburgh fans realise this season is over as far as playoff potential goes.

Im not saying that the Steelers should throw the towel in, but if Ben had been seriously injured in that game - it would have occured to most people what a pointless loss it was - a little like Brees' injury last year.

I agree with sticking with your No.1 guy if he just out of sorts (Grossman for example) but I dont think its a good idea to endanger the health of your franchise QB in what was basically a meaningless episodw where he didnt know where the next hit was coming from.

I dont think if Ben had bene pulled anyone would ever refer to him as a 'girl scout' - he seems as hard as nails to me.

NM

ps I have had the wind knocked out of me before playing rugby - its a horrible feeling because the actual contact looks pretty innocous and you end up rolling round on the floor like you've been shot, gasping for breath (or at least i did anyway)

tony hipchest
12-05-2006, 04:44 PM
Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

If the season is on the line, or its a playoff game, there is no way you pull your No.1 QB - granted.

But most Pittsburgh fans realise this season is over as far as playoff potential goes.

yes we can agree to disagree but you just solidified my point in bold. although alot of people think the season was pissed away weeks ago, the baltimore game in a sense was our playoff game and our season WAS on the line. it was a do or die game. had we won we would still be in the mix for the 6th seed and (with the bengals win over the ravens) possibly the division.

the season (meaning playoff hopes) is over now, but it wasnt 2 weeks ago. winning 2 games against the ravens and 1 against the bungles and browns was key. carolina and tampa should be (and were) cake.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-05-2006, 04:45 PM
here you go, a quote from your boy brady in regards to last weekends game:



so anyways, how come 'chick didnt pull brady in the green bay blow out? the game was over and brady is the future of their franchise. brady is hurt (bum shoulder- hes been on the injury report every week this year) and risked further injury.

you can so easilly bash ben and cowher, but will you dare say anything anti-patriot, when the same shoe is on their foot? if coaches do it "all the time" how come the coach you hold in such high regards didnt do it?

First things Tony Tom Brady isn't my boy. I hate the ****ing guy. Typical Tony Hipchest. I can't believe you're still going on about this. For the last ****ing time on this subject. The game was over heading into the 4th quarter. With the abuse Ben took all day it served no purpose to subject him to further risk with all the health issues he has had this year. Now if he would have been totally healthy all year. I would have no problem with him being in there the whole game.

Its funny how you came up with all these lame examples to try to prove your worthless point. Well here is another lame example. The Steelers blew out the Chiefs earlier this year. The Chiefs yanked Damon Huard and let their rookie QB finish the game. So **** off Tony and put me on ignore. I'm done dealing with a douche bag like you.

HometownGal
12-05-2006, 04:54 PM
anyways, ben gets paid to play, he wants to play, they issue him all the proper pads, enforce a helmet rule, and take all the precautions that players arent injured in the nfl. but it still happens. these are grown men and not girl scouts. i dont want a girl scout qb'ing my team. i want a champion and a fighter. like brady said "if theres time on the clock, i think we can win." im sure he would feel the same even if he were hurt.?

Right on the money, Tony. Ben WANTED to go back in, which is one of the reasons why I think most of us admire and respect him so much - he's a tough kid with a steel backbone. He believed he could turn things around and give the Steelers a chance to come back in the 4thQ down 24 points, which isn't exactly unheard of in the NFL, as well as looking back into the Steelers' history books. One big play could have swung the momentum in the Steelers' direction, but unfortunately, that big play didn't happen. I give Ben (and Cowher, as well) huge props for their efforts, toughing it out and not throwing in the towel when the chips were down :thumbsup:

tony hipchest
12-05-2006, 04:55 PM
First things Tony Tom Brady isn't my boy. I hate the ****ing guy. Typical Tony Hipchest. I can't believe you're still going on about this. For the last ****ing time on this subject. The game was over heading into the 4th quarter. With the abuse Ben took all day it served no purpose to subject him to further risk with all the health issues he has had this year. Now if he would have been totally healthy all year. I would have no problem with him being in there the whole game.

Its funny how you came up with all these lame examples to try to prove your worthless point. Well here is another lame example. The Steelers blew out the Chiefs earlier this year. The Chiefs yanked Damon Huard and let their rookie QB finish the game. So **** off Tony and put me on ignore. I'm done dealing with a douche bag like you.a little testy today are we? the game is never over going into the 4th quarter ESPECIALLY with less than a 28 point lead. (only losers and quitters believe it is). didnt you learn anything by watching the chargers defeat the bungles? how bout the titans defeating the giants?

youre only done dealing cause you cant deal. and why would i want to ignore you? i get to learn cool new words like "douche bag". :cool: i dont even "ignore" the trolls. they dont bug me as i appearantly do you. since you are familiar with the "ignore" feature and have used it on a poster or 2, i suggest you follow your own advise before telling others what to do.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-05-2006, 05:02 PM
a little testy today are we? the game is never over going into the 4th quarter ESPECIALLY with less than a 28 point lead. (only losers and quitters believe it is). didnt you learn anything by watching the chargers defeat the bungles? how bout the titans defeating the giants?

youre only done dealing cause you cant deal. and why would i want to ignore you? i get to learn cool new words like "douche bag". :cool: i dont even "ignore" the trolls. they dont bug me as i appearantly do you. since you are familiar with the "ignore" feature and have used it on a poster or 2, i suggest you follow your own advise before telling others what to do.

Hey I don't have anyone on ignore and never put anybody on ignore. You can do better then that. The game is never over? Anybody that watched the Steelers/Ravens game could figure it just wasn't in the cards for the Steelers that day. Sometimes you take your lumps and come back to fight another day. You're such a bitch and I would treat like the bitch that you are if we were face to face.

tony hipchest
12-05-2006, 05:08 PM
Right on the money, Tony. Ben WANTED to go back in, which is one of the reasons why I think most of us admire and respect him so much - he's a tough kid with a steel backbone. He believed he could turn things around and give the Steelers a chance to come back in the 4thQ down 24 points, which isn't exactly unheard of in the NFL, as well as looking back into the Steelers' history books. One big play could have swung the momentum in the Steelers' direction, but unfortunately, that big play didn't happen. I give Ben (and Cowher, as well) huge props for their efforts, toughing it out and not throwing in the towel when the chips were down :thumbsup:some great games come to mind. besides this years sd/cin and ny/ tenn games. oilers vs bills in the playoffs. jets vs miami, and colts vs bucs on monday night. not to mention the last time the browns and steelers faced off in the playoffs. if these fans say it was alright for a supposedly "injured" ben to return for the 3rd quarter (which he came out of in one piece) then why cant he play in the 4th? what suddenly happens in the few seconds of a clock that all of a sudden makes him more likely to get injured? ben is a pro athelete. im thinking he is as healthy as anyone on this board. he just so happens to participate in a violent profession. if the nfl would put flags on all the qb's the steelerfans would no longer have to worry about their "future" being jeopardized.

tony hipchest
12-05-2006, 05:12 PM
Hey I don't have anyone on ignore and never put anybody on ignore. You can do better then that. The game is never over? Anybody that watched the Steelers/Ravens game could figure it just wasn't in the cards for the Steelers that day. Sometimes you take your lumps and come back to fight another day. You're such a bitch and I would treat like the bitch that you are if we were face to face.uh oh. here comes the internet tough guy routine again *shakin in my boots* :rolleyes:

you have shown to be a quitter, and yellow, with a sack you couldnt carry a marble in. youve openly said you want the steelers to lose out to secure a high draft pick. if we were to meet face to face i wouldnt have anything to worry about.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-05-2006, 05:15 PM
uh oh. here comes the internet tough guy routine again *shakin in my boots* :rolleyes:

you have shown to be a quitter, and yellow, with a sack you couldnt carry a marble in. youve openly said you want the steelers to lose out to secure a high draft pick. if we were to meet face to face i wouldnt have anything to worry about.

I would break your neck with my two hands Tony. Just **** off and die for all I care Tony.

Big D
12-05-2006, 05:18 PM
I would break your neck with my two hands Tony. Just **** off and die for all I care Tony.

damn. There have been alot of pissing matches today

tony hipchest
12-05-2006, 05:23 PM
damn. There have been alot of pissing matches todayyeah, i see you have played a fair part in them. what was it 7 pages of bickering with minimal football talk?

Big D
12-05-2006, 05:24 PM
yeah, i see you have played a fair part in them. what was it 7 pages of bickering with minimal football talk?

yeah I do what I can with what I got. I was sure put " in my place today"

tony hipchest
12-05-2006, 05:28 PM
I would break your neck with my two hands Tony. Just **** off and die for all I care Tony.you couldnt break a pixy stick with them limp wrists. :jerkit:

i did a quick search and found that you didnt put HW on ignore but i did come across a bunch of your same tired internet tough guy rhetoric. i'd lay a million bucks on old man HW handing it to you. LOL! your feeble attempts to get me banned will fail, and when you are banned i guess you can run off to some other board like a typical bengalsfan and claim some red badge of courage.

*thumping chest* "i think ive defeated the mighty tony hipchest with my verbal, behind the screen assaults" :toofunny:

Black@Gold Forever32
12-05-2006, 05:30 PM
you couldnt break a pixy stick with them limp wrists.

i did a quick search and found that you didnt put HW on ignore but i did come across a bunch of your same tired internet tough guy rhetoric. i'd lay a million bucks on old man HW handing it to you. LOL! your feeble attempts to get me banned will fail, and when you are banned i guess you can run off to some other board like a typical bengalsfan and claim some red badge of courage.

*thumping chest* "i think ive defeated the mighty tony hipchest with my verbal, behind the screen assaults" :toofunny:

Tony I never attempted to get you banned dumbass. Where do you come up with this shit?

sumo
12-05-2006, 05:31 PM
GEEEEZ - how about a little civility guys ....

Big D
12-05-2006, 05:33 PM
Is there going to be a full moon tonite?

tony hipchest
12-05-2006, 05:36 PM
GEEEEZ - how about a little civility guys ....thats all im asking for. i dont know where all the personal attacks are coming from, however this guy does know ive got a personnal attack infraction for telling someone not to quit their day job, so i presume hes goading me into a personal attack reply to see me banned. other bannings and infractions pale in comparison to the antics 32 is pulling though. i thought threatening bodily harm to posters and constant personal attacks was against the rules. i know ive been punished for my discretions which were saying someones power rankings were pete priscoish.

ChronoCross
12-05-2006, 05:38 PM
Internet tough guys, hurry up punch your monitor. Hope you feel better now. So if your still reading this that you were not strong enough to break it.

Haha..


We won that is all that matters. We win again Thursday and look at who looses sunday.

Big D
12-05-2006, 05:38 PM
thats all im asking for. i dont know where all the personal attacks are coming from, however this guy does know ive got a personnal attack infraction for telling someone not to quit their day job, so i presume hes goading me into a personal attack reply to see me banned. other bannings and infractions pale in comparison to the antics 32 is pulling though. i thought threatening bodily harm to posters and constant personal attacks was against the rules.

from my experience tony. Personal physical attacks are condoned without any banning

Black@Gold Forever32
12-05-2006, 05:40 PM
thats all im asking for. i dont know where all the personal attacks are coming from, however this guy does know ive got a personnal attack infraction for telling someone not to quit their day job, so i presume hes goading me into a personal attack reply to see me banned. other bannings and infractions pale in comparison to the antics 32 is pulling though. i thought threatening bodily harm to posters and constant personal attacks was against the rules.

Cry Me A River Tony!!!!!!!!!!! Try to get you banned? Anyone thats posts on this site knows that you're God around here and nothing will happen to you. So why would anyone try?

floodcitygirl
12-05-2006, 05:43 PM
Hey Steeler fans! How about we take a :chillpill or have a :grouphug:????? My niceness meter is struggling here, guys! :jawdrop:

slashsteel
12-05-2006, 05:51 PM
D so you are saying you are innocent in your attacks? Let me get boots on because the pile is rising by the second.

Big D
12-05-2006, 05:52 PM
D so you are saying you are innocent in your attacks? Let me get boots on because the pile is rising by the second.

and here we go again.

slashsteel
12-05-2006, 05:56 PM
Answer me then. Straight up question did you do any personal attacks? Is calling someone a troll a personal attack? Let us see how honest you can be. I already said I was wrong in some statements. But we both flew comments.

Big D
12-05-2006, 06:00 PM
Answer me then. Straight up question did you do any personal attacks? Is calling someone a troll a personal attack? Let us see how honest you can be. I already said I was wrong in some statements. But we both flew comments.

yes i'm sorry.

slashsteel
12-05-2006, 06:03 PM
So did Pros give you a warning for personal attacks? 5 points off whatever that's about? As I received one. Sure debates can heat up and name calling shouldn't be resorted to. Two wrongs don't make a right, but in this case we should have both received a warning or not?

slashsteel
12-05-2006, 06:05 PM
K I am sorry for the ones that are considered in a attacking manner. I am a debater though maybe you shouldn't be as sensitive with me. Maybe I should find a better way to say I totally disagree with what you are saying.

slashsteel
12-05-2006, 06:16 PM
So did Pros give you a warning for personal attacks? 5 points off whatever that's about? As I received one. Sure debates can heat up and name calling shouldn't be resorted to. Two wrongs don't make a right, but in this case we should have both received a warning or not?

This was the question I was talking about D.

Big D
12-05-2006, 06:19 PM
yes i got talked to about what happen today

slashsteel
12-05-2006, 06:26 PM
5 point(s) total Latest Infractions Received
Post Date Expires Points Reason Posted By
Cowher to the Panthers?? 12-05-2006 01:43 PM 01-04-2007 01:43 PM 5 Personal Attack Prosdo

This is what I was talking about ?

slashsteel
12-05-2006, 06:38 PM
So we are done with this.

But to the management. I think it is important to be equal. I am not a regular here but come here from time to time. And have been coming here for a pretty long time.When two posters get "into" it with names etc. it is important to be fair and balanced. And I asked this in a PM and still have received no reply, but yet received a timely infraction. I will note I accepted my infraction as I deserved it, but so did the other party involved. I await your answer if it was in fact equal. People do read sites and I know if it was me on the outside looking in. I would be paying close attention to the answer.