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Sharkissle29
12-24-2006, 03:10 PM
i could have shit out a better passing rating than ben, he was way off and it was obvious. so why leave him in? it just never made sense to me.....i think this game proved to me that cowher is gone at the end of the year. your qb is playing horribly and hasnt really been 100% on all year and your seasons on the line, PUT BATCH IN!!!!!!!!!

thanks for the years cowher but sometimes i forget you have a brain

merry xmas

t-sizzlez
12-24-2006, 03:14 PM
I AGREE!!!!

"i could have shit out a better passing rating than ben" HAHAHAHA!!

i actually did during the 4th quarter!!!

tony hipchest
12-24-2006, 03:14 PM
lol. this season was over weeks ago. you dont think batch is the future do you? do we let ben play all games except against the big bad mighty ravens?

X-Terminator
12-24-2006, 03:15 PM
Wow. I think I'm going to sit back and have a nice ol' laugh at all of the irrational threads and posts that are sure to pop up today.

Gotta love those Steelers fans!

t-sizzlez
12-24-2006, 03:16 PM
yep...GREAT IDEA!!!!

tony hipchest
12-24-2006, 03:17 PM
Wow. I think I'm going to sit back and have a nice ol' laugh at all of the irrational threads and posts that are sure to pop up today.

Gotta love those Steelers fans!

its gonna get quite misty.

Sharkissle29
12-24-2006, 03:25 PM
Wow. I think I'm going to sit back and have a nice ol' laugh at all of the irrational threads and posts that are sure to pop up today.

Gotta love those Steelers fans!

sry im a fan of the steelers that likes to watch them win, how dare me question a coaches decision when its the obvious one....

and tony, the season wasnt over weeks ago...so far today we got the help we needed and if cincy loses, we are right in the race with them all at 9-7. yea ben is the future, but he wasnt playing a game that would have gotten a W for the steelers, so why not take a chance with batch bc your not gonna win with ben in? your future comment doesnt make much sense.

all of you always think "oh you question cowher, the god of all gods, your not a real fan, jump off the bandwagon yadayadayada." i just want whats best for the team, and i didnt agree with cowher today.

X-Terminator
12-24-2006, 03:32 PM
sry im a fan of the steelers that likes to watch them win, how dare me question a coaches decision when its the obvious one....

all of you always think "oh you question cowher, the god of all gods, your not a real fan, jump off the bandwagon yadayadayada." i just want whats best for the team, and i didnt agree with cowher today.

LOL!

Some of you guys take this stuff way too seriously...

tony hipchest
12-24-2006, 03:32 PM
sry im a fan of the steelers that likes to watch them win, how dare me question a coaches decision when its the obvious one....

and tony, the season wasnt over weeks ago...so far today we got the help we needed and if cincy loses, we are right in the race with them all at 9-7. yea ben is the future, but he wasnt playing a game that would have gotten a W for the steelers, so why not take a chance with batch bc your not gonna win with ben in? your future comment doesnt make much sense.

all of you always think "oh you question cowher, the god of all gods, your not a real fan, jump off the bandwagon yadayadayada." i just want whats best for the team, and i didnt agree with cowher today.i agree that it was the playcalls and not ben. how is batch gonna prevent our defense from letting mcnair doing whatever he wanted to do? how is batch gonna prevent getting sacked or throwing a pick when the ravens know EXACTLY what play is coming?

Paul Pyrch
12-24-2006, 03:38 PM
:ouch: Yep! I'm a die-hard fan also BUT the Ravens totally outplayed us for the second time this year. We didn't belong on the same field. Ben's passing was atrocious to say the least. Polomalu was burned twice. The pass coverage was pathetic. And where was the pass rush? Ben was sacked five times and theirs: ZERO! So much for our offensive line. Well, there's always next year.

BigDuke6
12-24-2006, 03:40 PM
i agree that it was the playcalls and not ben. how is batch gonna prevent our defense from letting mcnair doing whatever he wanted to do? how is batch gonna prevent getting sacked or throwing a pick when the ravens know EXACTLY what play is coming?

Disagree, dude. Your QB has to MAKE something happen. Ben was shittin himself from the opening gun.

HometownGal
12-24-2006, 03:40 PM
all of you always think "oh you question cowher, the god of all gods, your not a real fan, jump off the bandwagon yadayadayada." i just want whats best for the team, and i didnt agree with cowher today.

Then why don't you send your resume into the Steelers FO and maybe they'll hire you as the next HC? :wink02:

We didn't play the garbage dump of the NFL today - we played a team that has earned its way to the AFC North crown and the post-season. Was this game reachable? Hell yes. Unfortunately for us, however, turnovers kill and today's giveaways were the final nails in the Steelers' season.

HometownGal
12-24-2006, 03:42 PM
:ouch: Yep! I'm a die-hard fan also BUT the Ravens totally outplayed us for the second time this year. We didn't belong on the same field. Ben's passing was atrocious to say the least. Polomalu was burned twice. The pass coverage was pathetic. And where was the pass rush? Ben was sacked five times and theirs: ZERO! So much for our offensive line. Well, there's always next year.

Hall-e-freakin-lu-jah!!! Someone else around here gets it! :thumbsup:

X-Terminator
12-24-2006, 03:47 PM
Disagree, dude. Your QB has to MAKE something happen. Ben was shittin himself from the opening gun.

Now I will agree with this to a point - from what I heard on the radio and from the few minutes of the game that I watched, Ben did seem timid back there. You cannot play timid against the Ravens, or they will eat you alive. But after the pounding he got from them the last time they played, can you blame him for being a little apprehensive? The Ravens' D intimidates damn near everyone they play.

tony hipchest
12-24-2006, 03:57 PM
Disagree, dude. Your QB has to MAKE something happen. Ben was shittin himself from the opening gun.the only difference with batch is that he wouldve been wearing DEPENDS. same crap though.

Sharkissle29
12-24-2006, 04:08 PM
i agree that it was the playcalls and not ben. how is batch gonna prevent our defense from letting mcnair doing whatever he wanted to do? how is batch gonna prevent getting sacked or throwing a pick when the ravens know EXACTLY what play is coming?

well we got a couple knockdowns on mcnair but he found a way to either a) get rid of the ball or b) make a play, which he did on several occasions.

their were times where ben did have time and didnt do much with it, and their were also times where he had time but just made atrocious passes to open recievers that weren't even close...


and for whoever said i take stuff too seriously, you're damn right i do...it's the steelers, and the steelers are my life....it kills me to see them play like this, the hospital is calling.... :chicken:

SwedishSteeler
12-24-2006, 04:23 PM
Tell me how ben was responsible for our defense not shutting their O down? Sure...he got turnovers...but still...thats what a defense is for. When the ball is turned over, everyone knows what has to be done; the defense has to do THEIR PART.

I really dont think the steelers played THAT bad today...I just think the Ravens played really good; and if you admit that to yourself...you will have a much easier time with it all.


Why are you a 'fan'? You know Cowher's style, he doesnt take QB's or anyone else for that matter out of a game just got a few bad plays. Holmes missed a perfect pass...next play, same exact one; he caught it for a first down or something. Should we have taken Holmes out instead of throwing it to him? Or was that ok since it turned out good?

This is football man, you have to take risks. Putting in your unprepared backup qb isnt going to do much.

You could have had a better pass rating? wow. Ok. So I guess youve been in the nfl for how long now?...It's not as easy as it looks...Besides, people put WAY to much emphasis on pass rating....really.

I agree...it was the playcalls partly...Why didnt we pull out our trickplays earlier than we did? Even if the trick play WOULD have worked when we did use it, it wouldnt have mattered...it was too late.


Open your eyes up a bit, be mature and grow up. Look at the big picture.

X-Terminator
12-24-2006, 04:29 PM
and for whoever said i take stuff too seriously, you're damn right i do...it's the steelers, and the steelers are my life....it kills me to see them play like this, the hospital is calling.... :chicken:


That would be me, and I'm sorry man, but a football game and team should never, ever have that much importance in your life. It's a diversion, and nothing more. There are far more important things in life than football and sports in general.

BigDuke6
12-24-2006, 04:29 PM
Tell me how ben was responsible for our defense not shutting their O down? Sure...he got turnovers...but still...thats what a defense is for. When the ball is turned over, everyone knows what has to be done; the defense has to do THEIR PART.

I really dont think the steelers played THAT bad today...I just think the Ravens played really good; and if you admit that to yourself...you will have a much easier time with it all.


Why are you a 'fan'? You know Cowher's style, he doesnt take QB's or anyone else for that matter out of a game just got a few bad plays. Holmes missed a perfect pass...next play, same exact one; he caught it for a first down or something. Should we have taken Holmes out instead of throwing it to him? Or was that ok since it turned out good?

This is football man, you have to take risks. Putting in your unprepared backup qb isnt going to do much.

You could have had a better pass rating? wow. Ok. So I guess youve been in the nfl for how long now?...It's not as easy as it looks...Besides, people put WAY to much emphasis on pass rating....really.

I agree...it was the playcalls partly...Why didnt we pull out our trickplays earlier than we did? Even if the trick play WOULD have worked when we did use it, it wouldnt have mattered...it was too late.


Open your eyes up a bit, be mature and grow up. Look at the big picture.

The D cant spend so much time on the field. That was key for us last year. We would keep Ds on the field for long drives, then our D would make a 3 and out. Then their D was back on the field and just plain tired out by the time the 4th Q even started. Thts what is happening to us all year. No consistent drives. Balt had a 13 minute edge in ToP at one point today. Thats almost a full quarter.
Pull your head out of your ass !!

Sharkissle29
12-24-2006, 04:37 PM
Tell me how ben was responsible for our defense not shutting their O down? Sure...he got turnovers...but still...thats what a defense is for. When the ball is turned over, everyone knows what has to be done; the defense has to do THEIR PART.

I really dont think the steelers played THAT bad today...I just think the Ravens played really good; and if you admit that to yourself...you will have a much easier time with it all.


Why are you a 'fan'? You know Cowher's style, he doesnt take QB's or anyone else for that matter out of a game just got a few bad plays. Holmes missed a perfect pass...next play, same exact one; he caught it for a first down or something. Should we have taken Holmes out instead of throwing it to him? Or was that ok since it turned out good?
This is football man, you have to take risks. Putting in your unprepared backup qb isnt going to do much.
You could have had a better pass rating? wow. Ok. So I guess youve been in the nfl for how long now?...It's not as easy as it looks...Besides, people put WAY to much emphasis on pass rating....really.

I agree...it was the playcalls partly...Why didnt we pull out our trickplays earlier than we did? Even if the trick play WOULD have worked when we did use it, it wouldnt have mattered...it was too late.


Open your eyes up a bit, be mature and grow up. Look at the big picture.

1) When a offense goes 3 and out, 3 and out, like it did mostly the first 5 posessions. maybe they got 2 first downs total? Anyways, your defense tends to get a bit tired which is why you saw the ravens gradually get more points later in the game.

2) Comparing mistakes by a WR and a QB is totally different. So Holmes missed a ball on ONE play, and redeemed himself on the next. Well ben had about 20 BAD plays, i think thats a good indication that its time to leave....yea at times the sacks were unpreventable, but their were times he could have gotten rid of it or made a play like mcnair did.

3) I wouldnt call Batch an unprepared backup. When Ben gets hurt, Batch has been right there to do his part. He's a veteran for gods sake, hes been around long enough....

4) I was being sarcastic, relax and have another drink.

5) I'm done.

SwedishSteeler
12-24-2006, 04:39 PM
Even so. Open your eyes. It's not just the O's fault...Sure, you're right...the D 'cant' spend all that time on the field BUT WHAT ABOUT OTHER TEAMS like the Titans? Did you see last weeks game? The D WON THE GAME...literally.

I think if the Titans d can manage to do that, ours could do...but its not 100% especially with troy being being all good and starks being in...I mean...there was a lot going wrong for us including the refs.

theres really nothing to blame for this loss...well, theres not one like SINGLE thing you can blame it on. Just admit the Ravens played great.

As for us not sacking the ravens one time...mcnair hasnt been sacked in a month...consider that. I believe we were the last team to sack him.


edit: im done too...sick of dealing with flipflops..

BigDuke6
12-24-2006, 08:12 PM
Even so. Open your eyes. It's not just the O's fault...Sure, you're right...the D 'cant' spend all that time on the field BUT WHAT ABOUT OTHER TEAMS like the Titans? Did you see last weeks game? The D WON THE GAME...literally.

I think if the Titans d can manage to do that, ours could do...but its not 100% especially with troy being being all good and starks being in...I mean...there was a lot going wrong for us including the refs.

theres really nothing to blame for this loss...well, theres not one like SINGLE thing you can blame it on. Just admit the Ravens played great.

As for us not sacking the ravens one time...mcnair hasnt been sacked in a month...consider that. I believe we were the last team to sack him.


edit: im done too...sick of dealing with flipflops..

Dont forget Oakland v Pittsburgh. The Oakland D won that game for them too. Whats your point ?
Dont blame the refs.....Ever....after last year....the last thing any Steeler fan should ever do is blame refs....

Justin Otstott
12-24-2006, 08:19 PM
This was not Ben's fault...my God! Go somewhere else with this bull.....OUR O-LINE SUCKED AND MAYBE THATS WHY BEN LOOKED BAD! Come on this was our fault...we got rid of some key weapons he had.....Parker I love tha guy but he can't get those yards we need like a big back could.....maybe if the Steelers would have not let Randell El and a couple of other players go and got a power back we would have had a better season and everybody would be happy! GO STEELERS WIN OR LOSE, I LOVE YA! oh and the Ravens still suck ass, Chargers will take them out in the post-season!

PAMillerGrrl83
12-24-2006, 11:12 PM
This was not Ben's fault...my God! Go somewhere else with this bull.....OUR O-LINE SUCKED AND MAYBE THATS WHY BEN LOOKED BAD! Come on this was our fault...we got rid of some key weapons he had.....Parker I love tha guy but he can't get those yards we need like a big back could.....maybe if the Steelers would have not let Randell El and a couple of other players go and got a power back we would have had a better season and everybody would be happy! GO STEELERS WIN OR LOSE, I LOVE YA! oh and the Ravens still suck ass, Chargers will take them out in the post-season!

I agree with absolutely everything you said. And NO its NOT because I support Ben win/lose/suck, it because I think its gettin old blamin him for EVERY game that the Steelers loose.

Steelers
12-25-2006, 12:28 AM
and your seasons on the line

Wishful thinking...

Preacher
12-25-2006, 01:10 AM
Originally Posted by St33lers http://forums.steelersfever.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=194102#post194102)
and for whoever said i take stuff too seriously, you're damn right i do...it's the steelers, and the steelers are my life....it kills me to see them play like this, the hospital is calling.... :chicken:


That would be me, and I'm sorry man, but a football game and team should never, ever have that much importance in your life. It's a diversion, and nothing more. There are far more important things in life than football and sports in general.


With all due respect... X-terminator.. Don't apologize. You are absolutely right. There is a big difference between a childs' game played by grown men, and life. Do I love football? Yes. I absolutely love my steelers. Some of my deepest emotional memories of my father (who died in '79, the day after my birthday) are tied into watching the Steelers win the SB.

However, I still recognize... It is only a game... a game which I DON'T EVEN PLAY.

Petesburgh66
12-25-2006, 01:32 AM
What do you expect when it's run, run and throw? This philosophy had gotten tiresome by the third quarter whee the Steelers needed something to change the game around. Go to a two minute drill (so you can kept the Ravens D on the field), more screen passes to counter the pressure up the middle, go for a deep play to stretch out the D etc. If that doesn't work, change the personnel. You just don't out there with the same game plan that fails to produce nothing. Bottom line, blame the Whiz.

Preacher
12-25-2006, 02:02 AM
What do you expect when it's run, run and throw? This philosophy had gotten tiresome by the third quarter whee the Steelers needed something to change the game around. Go to a two minute drill (so you can kept the Ravens D on the field), more screen passes to counter the pressure up the middle, go for a deep play to stretch out the D etc. If that doesn't work, change the personnel. You just don't out there with the same game plan that fails to produce nothing. Bottom line, blame the Whiz.

You know. I have thought about that.

Preacher
12-25-2006, 02:12 AM
Part of me is just playing devil's advocate here, part of me is actually worried.

While we still call Ben the "quarterback of the future," etc., the reality is that quarterbacks come and go -- even Super Bowl quarterbacks. Look at how far Kurt Warner fell in a year or two. Trent Dilfer. Kerry Collins. Crap, what about Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart and Maddox? In the NFL, nothing is guaranteed based on what you've done in the past.

The reality is that Ben sucked the big Gonzalez in most of the games he played this year. It's certainly too early to write him off, but Batch has been the better quarterback this year.

Exactly why IS it that Batch couldn't be a legit starter, anyway? All there is to judge him by is four years with the shitty Lions.

The simple answer is, Batch is at the end of his career. Ben is at the beginning.

Paul Pyrch
12-25-2006, 08:09 AM
What do you expect when it's run, run and throw? This philosophy had gotten tiresome by the third quarter whee the Steelers needed something to change the game around. Go to a two minute drill (so you can kept the Ravens D on the field), more screen passes to counter the pressure up the middle, go for a deep play to stretch out the D etc. If that doesn't work, change the personnel. You just don't out there with the same game plan that fails to produce nothing. Bottom line, blame the Whiz.

Agree with you. The Whiz seems to have forgotten much of his calls. Why not more screen passes as other teams seem to do against us? There are ways to counter what the defense is doing.

Justin Otstott
12-25-2006, 08:18 AM
Part of me is just playing devil's advocate here, part of me is actually worried.

While we still call Ben the "quarterback of the future," etc., the reality is that quarterbacks come and go -- even Super Bowl quarterbacks. Look at how far Kurt Warner fell in a year or two. Trent Dilfer. Kerry Collins. Crap, what about Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart and Maddox? In the NFL, nothing is guaranteed based on what you've done in the past.

The reality is that Ben sucked the big Gonzalez in most of the games he played this year. It's certainly too early to write him off, but Batch has been the better quarterback this year.

Exactly why IS it that Batch couldn't be a legit starter, anyway? All there is to judge him by is four years with the shitty Lions.


Ben is no Kurt! lmao wow...remember ben's rookie season! That's all im gonna say. :smile:

lotas
12-26-2006, 05:10 AM
If I got flat knocked on my ass 9 times in a game I'd probably be pretty nervous about the same #1 defense in the league...

And for the guy who said he could have a better passer rating. Ha...right. You gotta understand this guy is in what his 3rd year? He is young, and he isn't a huge star spotlight QB that is an incredible offensive producer. Ben is a glue that holds together a solid team with a good D, and an offense that can produce when needed. That's what the SB XL team was at least, and this year we lacked the D and Ben along with the Oline, the WR's, and even the coaches did not produce when needed. They choked and we had turnovers like crazy, dropped catches, sacks, etc.

SteelCzar76
12-26-2006, 06:27 AM
If I got flat knocked on my ass 9 times in a game I'd probably be pretty nervous about the same #1 defense in the league...

And for the guy who said he could have a better passer rating. Ha...right. You gotta understand this guy is in what his 3rd year? He is young, and he isn't a huge star spotlight QB that is an incredible offensive producer. Ben is a glue that holds together a solid team with a good D, and an offense that can produce when needed. That's what the SB XL team was at least, and this year we lacked the D and Ben along with the Oline, the WR's, and even the coaches did not produce when needed. They choked and we had turnovers like crazy, dropped catches, sacks, etc.


This is the last time i'm going to beat this proverbial dead horse. Ben's strength's were never, a "Cannon" arm, good accuracy, "Marino like" release, or "cerebal" diagnostic skills.

Where his talent lied was in his ability to improvise.(ie buying time for plays to breakdown and go "backyard") This increased the odd's for a breakdown in coverage by oppossing Defenses.
Along with this was the fact that he did not kill us with turnovers. (because he didn't have to make many passing attempt's because of the success of the ground game.)
Take away the "ball control" ground game and limit his mobility (as did his injuries). And he's forced to play the position from pure passing skill and or ability standpoint. (And you have the result's that we were graced with this season)
And for those whom speak of "turnovers",......i normaly don't do stats,......but try this on.
We've had 35 turnovers through 15 games.

13 fumbles:
Willie 4
Verron 1
Ced 1
Hines 1
Coke 1
Santonio 2
Batch 1
Ben 2

22 interceptions:
BEN

That's one guy responsible for 24 turnovers compared to 11 by SEVEN different players.

"Knock it Off"


"Hail Caesar,.........HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

Livinginthe past
12-26-2006, 06:38 AM
Excellent post Czar76,

I would suggest some of those turnovers credited to Ben (the interceptions) are a direct result of chasing games.

And that alot of the reason the Steelers were chasing those games were because of other ills such as lack of defensive penetration by the front 7 and a crazy amount of fumbles and avoidable penalties.

There is a truth somwhere between the camps that dont see Ben to blame in anyway and the ones who think he has regressed to back-up standard.

Personally speaking, after all the injury crazyness this year im willing to give Ben a 'mulligan' - the physical is strongly connected to the mental.

I look forward to seeing how he performs next year, if he can steer clear of more offseason controversy.

NM

SteelCzar76
12-26-2006, 06:47 AM
Excellent post Czar76,

I would suggest some of those turnovers credited to Ben (the interceptions) are a direct result of chasing games.

And that alot of the reason the Steelers were chasing those games were because of other ills such as lack of defensive penetration by the front 7 and a crazy amount of fumbles and avoidable penalties.

There is a truth somwhere between the camps that dont see Ben to blame in anyway and the ones who think he has regressed to back-up standard.

Personally speaking, after all the injury crazyness this year im willing to give Ben a 'mulligan' - the physical is strongly connected to the mental.

I look forward to seeing how he performs next year, if he can steer clear of more offseason controversy.

NM



Good post Pats. I'm not calling for his job or his head. (yet lol) One bad season does not make him Kordell. But at the same time i'm not the type to pour maple syrup on shizer and call it blueberry pancakes. LOL
Like i said before,....he's a good kid and i truly hope he can evolve as a QB. That would be a very good look for not only himself and his fans,.....but for this organization as well.



"Hail Caesar,........HAIL THE BLACK AND GOLD"

clevestinks
12-26-2006, 08:44 AM
i could have shit out a better passing rating than ben, he was way off and it was obvious. so why leave him in? it just never made sense to me.....i think this game proved to me that cowher is gone at the end of the year. your qb is playing horribly and hasnt really been 100% on all year and your seasons on the line, PUT BATCH IN!!!!!!!!!

thanks for the years cowher but sometimes i forget you have a brain

merry xmas

I think one reason was that we were still in this game for a while anyway. If we scored instead of Willie fumbling, we were only down by seven, so there was still the confidence in us winning with Ben. But our defense was poor also. troy looked like he had a bad knee, maybe he should have been sat

Big D
12-26-2006, 08:53 AM
I wouldnt say ben is all the fault for his turnovers has noted above. Heres the thing, He did turn the ball over more frequent when 1. the offensive line was giving him no time to throw the ball. 2. Willie parker would be getting shut out and whiz would abandon the run all together and make ben throw 25-50 times a game. I would blame the coaching staff for bens year way before I would blame ben

X-Terminator
12-26-2006, 01:46 PM
If I got flat knocked on my ass 9 times in a game I'd probably be pretty nervous about the same #1 defense in the league...

And for the guy who said he could have a better passer rating. Ha...right. You gotta understand this guy is in what his 3rd year? He is young, and he isn't a huge star spotlight QB that is an incredible offensive producer. Ben is a glue that holds together a solid team with a good D, and an offense that can produce when needed. That's what the SB XL team was at least, and this year we lacked the D and Ben along with the Oline, the WR's, and even the coaches did not produce when needed. They choked and we had turnovers like crazy, dropped catches, sacks, etc.

I said the same thing about Ben being in his 3rd year and he's still learning the position at the NFL, but some fans just want to throw him under the bus anyway and declare him the next Ryan Leaf. He HAS to be given time to continue to evolve, and that means that the fans have to take off their beer goggles, pay attention and SUPPORT him. Most young, highly drafted QBs don't even play until their 2nd and 3rd seasons, and some, like J.P. Losman and Eli Manning, get thrown in there as rookies and they have struggle after struggle. Ben having success so soon is the exception rather than the rule, and unfortunately, that is beginning to work against him in terms of fan treatment. I believe the guy will be just fine and will become the QB that so many people think he can be.