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View Full Version : Lack of discipline almost cost us this one, too...


Mosca
01-01-2007, 09:32 AM
Now that the thrill has settled a little bit, let's reflect a moment. Even to the last, lack of discipline was a problem this year.

A 15 yard taunting penalty for Willie Colon. Puts us from the 5 to the 20, and later on Parker fumbles at the 1... momentum killer. A 98 yard drive with no points. It actually turned that 98 yard drive into a 113 yard drive with no points.

A 15 yard roughing penalty on Farrior. It was going to be 2nd and 10, we had a chance to break the drive's momentum (after Palmer had completed 4 straight short passes). Sure, a couple years ago that play was OK. But now it's not, and he definitely drove the guy into the ground when he didn't have to. You could correctly argue that the Steelers have ALWAYS played this way... but you take that roughing penalty early in the game, not in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.

They won, but not before they tried not to.


Tom

83-Steelers-43
01-01-2007, 09:39 AM
"It will never happen again" :yawn:

stillers4me
01-01-2007, 09:41 AM
I've never seen a perfectly played football game yet.

We won........we didn't get into the playoffs but we did the job of knocking the Bengals out of the playoffs. We ended on high note and exposed the Bungles for the losers they are. All in all, I can live with this for another 9 months.

83-Steelers-43
01-01-2007, 09:47 AM
I've never seen a perfectly played football game yet.

Neither have I. But I have witnessed a team listen to their "coach" when it comes to not taking stupid penalties on a consistent basis.

We won........we didn't get into the playoffs but we did the job of knocking the Bengals out of the playoffs. We ended on high note and exposed the Bungles for the losers they are.

If these type of penalties only occured during yesterday's game it would not be a big deal in my book. But that has not been the case. It's been happening all season long. Yeah, it was nice to take the Bengals out (not sure what that has to do with this particular topic), but that doesn't excuse the type of penalties this team has taken all year long.

All in all, I can live with this for another 9 months.

Glad to hear you can. Wish I could say the same.

Atlanta Dan
01-01-2007, 09:49 AM
The Colon penalty was inexcusable, but the Farrior call is as much a reflection on the screwed up interpretation of the rules to protect the QBs at all costs as lack of discipline by Farrior - I admit this observation is based on my view Farrior is by far the most disciplined of the LBs.

That having been said, I agree the turnovers (don't forget Ben's decision to yet again throw it down the middle of the field for another INT) and penalties reflect a recurring lack of focus. All of us will be looking back fondly on Cowher's complete coaching record, but IMHO this season ranks with 1999 (another undisciplined team that almost got him fired) as Cowher's worst year of coaching.

BlacknGold Bleeder
01-01-2007, 10:09 AM
A taunting penalty on an offensive lineman ?? WTF I have never heard of one being called like that, pure BS. With all the jawing that WRs, RBs, LBs, do to make a call like that is a punk move on the officials part!!

As far as the Farrior penalty, another BS call ! He flat out sacked him !! As the announcers put it "his body language showed him driving him to the turf", he made a perfectly legal hit. Those ref's ought be cleaning up their knees and chins,they were definitely blowing that game!!

There were a lot of stupid penalties this year,but how can you honestly blame the coaching staff ?? Bottom line is it's the players responsibility. What goes in one game may not be permitted the next game...

Mosca
01-01-2007, 10:14 AM
If these type of penalties only occured during yesterday's game it would not be a big deal in my book. But that has not been the case. It's been happening all season long. Yeah, it was nice to take the Bengals out (not sure what that has to do with this particular topic), but that doesn't excuse the type of penalties this team has taken all year long.

Yep, that's exactly my point, 126. It wasn't isolated, it was a syndrome of the team attitude that affected the outcome of the season.

but the Farrior call is as much a reflection on the screwed up interpretation of the rules to protect the QBs at all costs as lack of discipline by Farrior

I agree, and I'd agree with anyone who said that this was just Steeler football. But you have to choose your moments to make the intimidation hit at the cost of 15 yards, and a 4th quarter drive for victory ain't the place. Often a linebacker hits the QB after the ball is gone and does not wrap him up and slam him, not just this year but going back maybe 4 or 5 years. He didn't have to add the wrap and slam, which is why the penalty was called.


Tom

BlacknGold Bleeder
01-01-2007, 10:24 AM
Often a linebacker hits the QB after the ball is gone and does not wrap him up and slam him, not just this year but going back maybe 4 or 5 years. He didn't have to add the wrap and slam, which is why the penalty was called.

He hit him just as the ball was leaving, when he started his tackle Caution palmer could have very easily pulled the pass back down. If he does that and Farrior does not wrap and finish, slips off then what??? The way to tackle is to wrap him up. the follow through was just his momentum, nothing more !!!
There was NOTHING dirty or cheap about that hit that a penalty should have been called for... WTF put a skirt on him,it's a contact sport!!!!

Mosca
01-01-2007, 10:24 AM
A taunting penalty on an offensive lineman ?? WTF I have never heard of one being called like that, pure BS. With all the jawing that WRs, RBs, LBs, do to make a call like that is a punk move on the officials part!!

I'd bet just as much jawing goes on in the line, too. A taunt has to be pretty obvious to be called, and taunting is the kind of thing that causes brawls if not controlled.

As far as the Farrior penalty, another BS call ! He flat out sacked him !! As the announcers put it "his body language showed him driving him to the turf", he made a perfectly legal hit. Those ref's ought be cleaning up their knees and chins,they were definitely blowing that game!!

I think they got that one right; Farrior didn't have to follow through with the wrap and slam. I wish the rule wasn't like that, but the call was right. And he didn't sack him, the ball was gone, which was the reason for the call.

There were a lot of stupid penalties this year,but how can you honestly blame the coaching staff ?? Bottom line is it's the players responsibility. What goes in one game may not be permitted the next game...

I didn't single out the coaching staff. But it is telling that you thought I did, because you considered that conclusion yourself before rejecting it. The coaching staff is part of the team, and part of what they do is stand back from the field and control discipline, keep the players focused on the big picture. The type of problem I brought up in this thread is due to guys getting caught up in the moment and forgetting how what they do can affect the big picture. Is it the coaches not doing the job, or the players not paying attention? I don't know which, but either way it was a problem all year that has to be addressed.


Tom

83-Steelers-43
01-01-2007, 10:26 AM
but how can you honestly blame the coaching staff ?? Bottom line is it's the players responsibility.

I never stated that I put the "full blame" on the coaching staff. At the same, last time I checked instilling discipline is in a HC's job description. Cowher's message is obviously not getting through. IMO Cowher is to blame just as much as the players.

clevestinks
01-01-2007, 10:28 AM
The Colon penalty was inexcusable, but the Farrior call is as much a reflection on the screwed up interpretation of the rules to protect the QBs at all costs as lack of discipline by Farrior - I admit this observation is based on my view Farrior is by far the most disciplined of the LBs.

That having been said, I agree the turnovers (don't forget Ben's decision to yet again throw it down the middle of the field for another INT) and penalties reflect a recurring lack of focus. All of us will be looking back fondly on Cowher's complete coaching record, but IMHO this season ranks with 1999 (another undisciplined team that almost got him fired) as Cowher's worst year of coaching.

This I can agree with totally, especially the lack of focus,

Stlrs4Life
01-01-2007, 10:28 AM
[QUOTE=BlacknGold Bleeder;198885]A taunting penalty on an offensive lineman ?? WTF I have never heard of one being called like that, pure BS. With all the jawing that WRs, RBs, LBs, do to make a call like that is a punk move on the officials part!!



QUOTE]


I hear ya bleeder, but it was said Willie went out of his way to yack at the guy.

Mosca
01-01-2007, 10:31 AM
There was NOTHING dirty or cheap about that hit that a penalty should have been called for... WTF put a skirt on him,it's a contact sport!!!!

I agree, the rule shouldn't be what it is, and the hit wasn't dirty or cheap. But under the current rule it doesn't have to be dirty or cheap; it has to be unnecessary. It's a crappy rule. But the refs called it according to what the league told them to call. I didn't like it, and I agree that no one would have said anything if they HADN'T flagged it. But if Palmer had pulled the ball down, Farrior would have hit him anyhow and probably caused a fumble. It wasn't the HIT that was unnecessary, it was the intensity.


Tom

Stlrs4Life
01-01-2007, 10:38 AM
[QUOTE=BlacknGold Bleeder;198885]A taunting penalty on an offensive lineman ?? WTF I have never heard of one being called like that, pure BS. With all the jawing that WRs, RBs, LBs, do to make a call like that is a punk move on the officials part!!



QUOTE]


I hear ya bleeder, but it was said Willie went out of his way to yack at the guy.

X-Terminator
01-01-2007, 10:54 AM
I agree, the rule shouldn't be what it is, and the hit wasn't dirty or cheap. But under the current rule it doesn't have to be dirty or cheap; it has to be unnecessary. It's a crappy rule. But the refs called it according to what the league told them to call. I didn't like it, and I agree that no one would have said anything if they HADN'T flagged it. But if Palmer had pulled the ball down, Farrior would have hit him anyhow and probably caused a fumble. It wasn't the HIT that was unnecessary, it was the intensity.


Tom

Correct interpretation or not, it was still a bullshit call, and a shining example of how the NFL has gone way too far to protect the QB. Why not just say that hitting the QB after he throws the ball is illegal? Because that is what that call is basically saying. This isn't flag football, it's the NFL, and it's allegedly a "man's game," is it not?

Mosca
01-01-2007, 11:13 AM
Bullshit rule, I agree. But you can't blame the refs for it. No one bitched here when they (correctly) called them close in the Super Bowl. They called what they were told to call.


Tom

83-Steelers-43
01-01-2007, 11:17 AM
I agree Mosca. Rules are rules. I don't agree with the bubble they are putting around QB's these days, but it is what it is. I have a tough time thinking a good number of Steeler fans wouldn't be a little upset if the tables were turned and god forbid, Ben was the victim.

OneForTheToe
01-01-2007, 11:25 AM
Well, if they are going to call the penalty close to protect Carson on the Farrior hit, then how about calling it close when Ben give himself up with a slide, and still gets thumped.

Atlanta Dan
01-01-2007, 11:35 AM
I agree Mosca. Rules are rules. I don't agree with the bubble they are putting around QB's these days, but it is what it is. I have a tough time thinking a good number of Steeler fans wouldn't be a little upset if the tables were turned and god forbid, Ben was the victim.

Like when Ben got pancaked down near the goal line in the first Ravens game or concussed in the Atlanta game?

The Ravens hit was clean although the spirit of the screwed up rules should mean a flag should have been thrown since the blitzing Raven could have slowed up while still bringing Ben down; because concussions are caused by blows to the head it would seem the ATL hit was a blow to the head and should have been flagged.

I am not criticizing those calls. I am saying what does and does not get flagged in terms of QB hits is totally up for grabs these days. For that reason I am willing to cut Farrior some slack (while admitting if Foote or Porter did the same thing I would presume them to be guilty of a foul - reputations count for me).

imp-n-arn
01-01-2007, 12:00 PM
we won that one on a missed field goal and a won coin toss!

:dang:

Mosca
01-01-2007, 12:01 PM
Like when Ben got pancaked down near the goal line in the first Ravens game or concussed in the Atlanta game?

The Ravens hit was clean although the spirit of the screwed up rules should mean a flag should have been thrown since the blitzing Raven could have slowed up while still bringing Ben down; because concussions are caused by blows to the head it would seem the ATL hit was a blow to the head and should have been flagged.

I am not criticizing those calls. I am saying what does and does not get flagged in terms of QB hits is totally up for grabs these days. For that reason I am willing to cut Farrior some slack (while admitting if Foote or Porter did the same thing I would presume them to be guilty of a foul - reputations count for me).


Does it make sense that I can agree with you but still put it in a larger context of lack of discipline? I wouldn't have been surprised if the flag hadn't been thrown. And I would even say that that hit in the first quarter would be a good gamble, a hard smack with the possibility of a flag in order to set the tone. But in that situation it was a mistake to risk the flag, that is my point.


Tom

Tankus_Maximus
01-01-2007, 12:11 PM
Now that the thrill has settled a little bit, let's reflect a moment. Even to the last, lack of discipline was a problem this year.

A 15 yard taunting penalty for Willie Colon. Puts us from the 5 to the 20, and later on Parker fumbles at the 1... momentum killer. A 98 yard drive with no points. It actually turned that 98 yard drive into a 113 yard drive with no points.

A 15 yard roughing penalty on Farrior. It was going to be 2nd and 10, we had a chance to break the drive's momentum (after Palmer had completed 4 straight short passes). Sure, a couple years ago that play was OK. But now it's not, and he definitely drove the guy into the ground when he didn't have to. You could correctly argue that the Steelers have ALWAYS played this way... but you take that roughing penalty early in the game, not in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.

They won, but not before they tried not to.


Tom

All good points Mosca.

The play that chapped my ass was the Harrison to Chad Johnson "Chris Benoit Belly-to-back-suplex". While granted it was GREAT to see Panocha Cinco get suplexed like that..there's a time and place for everything, and that definitely wasn't the place.

The Farrior hit? Eh...I'm 50/50 on that..it was great, but he didn't really need to spear Caution into the ground. Again..it was great to see Caution get abused like that, that wasn't the time or the place.

Atlanta Dan
01-01-2007, 12:18 PM
Does it make sense that I can agree with you but still put it in a larger context of lack of discipline? I wouldn't have been surprised if the flag hadn't been thrown. And I would even say that that hit in the first quarter would be a good gamble, a hard smack with the possibility of a flag in order to set the tone. But in that situation it was a mistake to risk the flag, that is my point.


Tom


Oh it makes absolute sense for us to agree while disagreeing - I have been harping on lack of discipline since the Bengals loss in September but also have been ticked off about the coddling the QB rules all season.

I guess my point/distinction/rationalization is that I probably have a blind spot when it comes to Farrior not being a likely suspect for the lack of discipline problem, with one example being it was Porter rather than Farrior who got into trouble after Winslow took the cheap shot at Farrior.

So by way of explanation, while recognizing a contrary view is certainly justified, my point on the Farrior/Palmer flag is to blame it more upon my objection to screwed up/subjective/arbitray rules that protect the QB as opposed to my objection to the undisciplined 2006 edition of the Steelers that cost the team several games and a playoff berth.