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View Full Version : Where would the Pats be w/ out Brady?


BlitzburghRockCity
08-07-2005, 10:13 PM
Its a question I know has been debated over and over all the time on TV, radio, at work, etc. But you have to wonder, how successful would the Pats be under Bill B. had they not had Tom Brady?

Taking nothing away from the genious game planner and coach that Bill B. is. One of the best ever in that dept. But how good would have been, and be now, if they still had bledsoe or gone in another direction at QB?

BB2W
08-07-2005, 10:42 PM
I remember the game that Brady got injured and Bledsoe came in and torched us....

I think the Pats would still be good..... not this good, but good. I think Bledsoe or another good QB could have brought home a Championship or two.

Livinginthe past
08-08-2005, 01:58 AM
Its always a tough one to say - the only two parts of the Pats organisation that are not interchangeable are Tom Brady and BB.
The turn around Brady put together in his first season - including the 44 point dusting of the Colts - was something to behold, especially when you consider that this was not a particularly strong Pats squad.

I think Brady would get it done on another team, but I doubt the Pats would get it done as consistently as they do without him.

Im still waiting for someone to post the phrase 'system QB' :blurp:

Cheers

NM

clevestinks
08-08-2005, 07:41 AM
I personally have not really found any kinks in Brady`s armor. He is very intelligent, has a better than average arm, and gets it done in the clutch. He is a damn good qb. I think he is the New England Patriots. Just my opinion.

Go Steelers

RoethlisBURGHer
08-08-2005, 04:56 PM
Without him they might have won thier first championship,but I doubt they would have won these last two.They are a middle-of-the-pack to slightly above average team without him IMHO.

CantStop85
08-08-2005, 05:03 PM
I want to see Brady get injured for a few games just to see how well they perform with their backup QB.

Livinginthe past
08-09-2005, 12:58 AM
I want to see Brady get injured for a few games just to see how well they perform with their backup QB.

I want to see Palmer be able to walk past the mattress display in a furniture shop without breaking into a cold sweat.

NM

clevestinks
08-09-2005, 06:10 AM
I want my team to beat the best, whomever that may be. I wouldn`t want to see Brady injured, now if Bill forgets his playbook on occasion, I`ll take that.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-09-2005, 04:25 PM
Brady injured ain't cool.Brady benched cuz he's stinkin the place up however,sounds excellent to me.

The only players I have ever wished injury upon (as in career ending) are Ray Lewis and Tony Siraguissa (or however the hell you spell it).

CantStop85
08-09-2005, 05:15 PM
Brady injured ain't cool.Brady benched cuz he's stinkin the place up however,sounds excellent to me.

The only players I have ever wished injury upon (as in career ending) are Ray Lewis and Tony Siraguissa (or however the hell you spell it).
Eh, I said for a few games...you know what I meant. I just want to see how the team performs with their backup QB.

ironcitychef
08-09-2005, 07:35 PM
I have always seen Brady as the difference up there. Along with the playcalling. One thing NE does better than anyone is patience. NE has other teams lose games as much as they win them and you just don't see teams not get nervous as games remain close or such later in the game. They are more than happy to let you make the mistakes. As for Brady, the patient part about him is I have never seen anyone going back to Montanna who was able to not get jittery in the pocket and move just enough to get a second or so more. Look at Ben. Last year he was a one read type of guy. He read half the field, and only two receivers. Brady seems to be able to check down all his guys, half the marching band, side step a tackle and deliver a completion to the popcorn guy in the third row sometimes. Uncanny abililty to see the whole field. So in my mind, I would hate to see someone say system QB as well.

CantStop85
08-09-2005, 08:09 PM
Brady's a very smart Quarterback...very poised, very Montana-like. He never seems to panic in the pocket.

Anyone who would refer to Brady as a system QB needs to be slapped in the face. You can't just plug and play Quarterbacks in a system. It's much different than putting just any running back behind a good offensive line (Denver).

BlitzburghRockCity
08-09-2005, 08:12 PM
So is it the system or the player?

CantStop85
08-09-2005, 08:26 PM
So is it the system or the player?
A little bit of both...Brady wouldn't be as successful if he was put in Cleveland or somewhere else, but New England couldn't just take any other QB off of free agency and expect the same kind of production.

clevestinks
08-09-2005, 08:45 PM
Cleveland is cursed. Modell threw the hex on them for NOT giving him a new stadium. Mayor Mike White screwed that up. I like the hex.

Dirtywater
08-10-2005, 01:02 AM
Brady's a very smart Quarterback...very poised, very Montana-like. He never seems to panic in the pocket.

Anyone who would refer to Brady as a system QB needs to be slapped in the face. You can't just plug and play Quarterbacks in a system. It's much different than putting just any running back behind a good offensive line (Denver).


Smartest. Post. Ever.

Seriously. In his first season to se4ason and a half, Brady was working from the system, but he has grown into something far more. I'm not saying he is the greatest ever, far from it, but he is far from the system QB he was in the begining of his career. You'd be amazed at how many people still think of Brady as that QB.

BlitzburghRockCity
08-10-2005, 01:28 AM
Yes but certain QB's are better suited for certain systems. Bill B has created an offense that suits Brady perfectly. He plays to his strengths. Brady is also just a great QB in general as mentioned before. But you have to attribute a fair amount of his success to the system that Bill B. has in place for him.

Like also was mentioned, u couldnt transplant Brady into a dog team like the Browns and expect im to have all the success he has now, it just wouldnt happen. He has the players and playbook that suits him best.

ironcitychef
08-10-2005, 04:11 PM
I think the system is designed around the man. Brady as I said earlier can get the pass to the 3rd and 4th guy better than anyone. So NE uses this strength in its system. It doesn't matter really who they have at WR cause they all run the same routes. With us it was Burress who was that mid to deep threat and Ward was the possession guy. Up there, its anyone, so Tom uses his ability to stay alive and see the field which allows NE to be very effective in deep routes that might have started out lower on the tree cause a)no one set guy was designated deep per say b)Tom was able to wait until that guy got open longer than any other QB. I can't say it is totally system, cause Bledsoe wouldn't get the extra split second Tom gives himself. So I say the system is to max out your QB's most unique talent, standing tall in the pocket.

hardwork
08-12-2005, 01:41 AM
I usually don't talk football, or listen to anyone else talk football once the preseason starts. I rely solely on what I see, and form my own opinions.

However this thread really does my heart good. Brady deserves the kind of respect you're giving him here. I'm glad for him. And in giving him this respect, you make me have a lot of respect for you for being such true fans of the game. This is what I had hoped for when I came in here several months ago. As you probably can tell, I love this game. I got chills up and down my spine when I played it, and I get chills now when I watch good football. It's THE game as far as I'm concerened.

Thanks for making my day.

Cape Cod Steel Head
08-13-2005, 10:56 AM
Brady is a good QB, the question should be where would they be without Vinateiri ?

BlitzburghRockCity
08-13-2005, 01:47 PM
I usually don't talk football, or listen to anyone else talk football once the preseason starts. I rely solely on what I see, and form my own opinions.

However this thread really does my heart good. Brady deserves the kind of respect you're giving him here. I'm glad for him. And in giving him this respect, you make me have a lot of respect for you for being such true fans of the game. This is what I had hoped for when I came in here several months ago. As you probably can tell, I love this game. I got chills up and down my spine when I played it, and I get chills now when I watch good football. It's THE game as far as I'm concerened.

Thanks for making my day.


Well it took ya long enough to thank us!! :rofl:

Just pickin on ya, but its really true, as much as we all dislike the pats and the rivalry we have w/ you guys is so real and intense..you can't overlook the late round pick that made himself a sensation in this league.

Whats just as amazing is that he doesnt do it w/ stats and big numbers, he just wins.

CantStop85
08-13-2005, 08:22 PM
If you want to read something funny, here ya go:
http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12090

Patriot fans lobbying to get rid of Tom Brady and replace him with Matt Leinart's backup who they drafted in the 7th round this year. :D

Dirtywater
08-13-2005, 11:38 PM
If you want to read something funny, here ya go:
http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12090

Patriot fans lobbying to get rid of Tom Brady and replace him with Matt Leinart's backup who they drafted in the 7th round this year. :D


You need to be a member to get it. We constantly joke about this and make threads like this on purpose. It's one of those 'you had to be there' type things.

Livinginthe past
08-15-2005, 02:43 PM
If you want to read something funny, here ya go:
http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12090

Patriot fans lobbying to get rid of Tom Brady and replace him with Matt Leinart's backup who they drafted in the 7th round this year. :D

I've just set up a new introduction service.....and this looks like my first customer!

Irony, meet Cantstop85........Cantstop85 meet Irony......I know its the first time you guys have met but im sure you will get along just fine now that you been officially introduced!

NM

CantStop85
08-15-2005, 10:46 PM
I've just set up a new introduction service.....and this looks like my first customer!

Irony, meet Cantstop85........Cantstop85 meet Irony......I know its the first time you guys have met but im sure you will get along just fine now that you been officially introduced!

NM
Call me stupid, but I saw no irony in that post. Please show me the light.

Perhaps you were searching for sarcasm?

JerseySTEEL
08-15-2005, 11:49 PM
The question should be were would the past be with Adam V. since he did win 2 SB for the pats.

Steelersfan
08-16-2005, 01:55 AM
The question should be were would the past be with Adam V. since he did win 2 SB for the pats.

I'd have to agree with that %100.

Livinginthe past
08-16-2005, 04:02 PM
Call me stupid, but I saw no irony in that post. Please show me the light.

Perhaps you were searching for sarcasm?

Hey stupid! ( Your idea...not mine)

i?ro?ny ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-n, r-)
n. pl. i?ro?nies

The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1.

Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: ?Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated? (Richard Kain).
An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.


I hope this clears things up for you.

Dictionary.com are the proud sponsors of this message from Livinginthe past.

NM

Livinginthe past
08-16-2005, 04:04 PM
The question should be were would the past be with Adam V. since he did win 2 SB for the pats.

Hey man - thats so perceptive.

You gotta hand it to Vinatieri - he tackles like a dervish and his passing for them TD's was just sublime....and his running...well im speechless.

Using backhanded compliments as a way of laying smack is sneaky - but extremely obvious to the fan of a team who has been damned by faint praise for the last 4 years.


NM

CantStop85
08-16-2005, 09:30 PM
Hey stupid! ( Your idea...not mine)

i?ro?ny ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-n, r-)
n. pl. i?ro?nies

The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1.

Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: ?Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated? (Richard Kain).
An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.


I hope this clears things up for you.

Dictionary.com are the proud sponsors of this message from Livinginthe past.

NM
Right...

I know what irony means. I meant that I wanted you to point out the irony in the post for me. Thank you.

Steelersfan
08-17-2005, 12:08 AM
Hey man - thats so perceptive.

You gotta hand it to Vinatieri - he tackles like a dervish and his passing for them TD's was just sublime....and his running...well im speechless.

Using backhanded compliments as a way of laying smack is sneaky - but extremely obvious to the fan of a team who has been damned by faint praise for the last 4 years.


NM

Hey, why don't you go ask the Jets and Chargers if they would want Vinitieri on there team now.
It's not taking anything away from the rest of the team. Vinitieri also kicked the game winner (in the snow no less) in the infamous "tuck rule" game. So ya! He is a big reason (not the only one but BIG) the Pats have won 2 of those SB's.

hardwork
08-17-2005, 01:47 AM
Ever notice how fast they sign Vinitieri when his contract is up? In about 5 minutes. We know what we have. He's the best money kicker to ever step onto a football field.

ironcitychef
08-17-2005, 07:19 AM
I think Brady should get most of the credit. True Adam hit the kicks. the big problem is that we can't sit easy with NE or give them as much praise as thye would like because they let teams lose games as much as NE wins them. Sometimes you look at the stat sheet and say how did NE win by so much? They just kinda gambled and said you know what, we think you will do something wrong before us. Like the Panthers kicking the ball out of bounds in the SB. That game wasn't dominated by the Patriots, but they still let the other team make the last mistake.

CantStop85
08-17-2005, 05:05 PM
I think Brady should get most of the credit. True Adam hit the kicks. the big problem is that we can't sit easy with NE or give them as much praise as thye would like because they let teams lose games as much as NE wins them. Sometimes you look at the stat sheet and say how did NE win by so much? They just kinda gambled and said you know what, we think you will do something wrong before us. Like the Panthers kicking the ball out of bounds in the SB. That game wasn't dominated by the Patriots, but they still let the other team make the last mistake.
The Patriots don't win because they're way more talented than the other team, they win because they make the least mistakes. They execute their plays the right way and take care of the football. It's all about execution.

hardwork
08-17-2005, 09:52 PM
You put the Patriots up on the board, and go through their roster. You'll see one solid NFL player(B) after another. There are teams that have a couple more A players, but we have as many B+, and B players as anyone, and more then most.

Livinginthe past
08-18-2005, 02:20 PM
Right...

I know what irony means. I meant that I wanted you to point out the irony in the post for me. Thank you.


Ho Hum...ok then 85....listen up.

Incongruity between what might be expect and what actually occurs. (The definition of irony that you are allegedly aware of)

Patsfan No.1 quote :

Brady vs Cassell

I think it is obvious that Cassell has all the tools that Brady does, except he can also run like Michael Vick. I think it is time to sit old man Brady and start the kid.

Thoughts?

Patsfan quote No.2 :

Brady's trade value has never been higher. The Pats may be able to convince a desperate team to send a conditional 2nd rounder our way


Want me to go on?

NM

Suitanim
09-02-2005, 10:24 PM
Please do...reading your responses in this thread showed me that the Pats love you have is much less about facts and figures, and much more about the crazy man-love you have for the team, and especially Brady.

Brady is a pretty vanilla dude, or has been...then he went on SNL, and then he stated that he thought he could be a player coach, since the OC position in NE is still weirdly up in the air.

Is he buying into his own bullshit yet? Is he thinking he's a star? Will this affect his '05 performance? Just more questions on an expanding list of questions the Pats will have to answer this year...

Dirtywater
09-02-2005, 11:57 PM
Please do...reading your responses in this thread showed me that the Pats love you have is much less about facts and figures, and much more about the crazy man-love you have for the team, and especially Brady.

Brady is a pretty vanilla dude, or has been...then he went on SNL, and then he stated that he thought he could be a player coach, since the OC position in NE is still weirdly up in the air.

Is he buying into his own bullshit yet? Is he thinking he's a star? Will this affect his '05 performance? Just more questions on an expanding list of questions the Pats will have to answer this year...


It's only football guy, relax. Even if we don't win, we've had a hell of a ride with these guys. life goes on, I promise you, lol. :rolleyes:

The pressure to win is on you guys. We've won three out of the last four. You've been on the cusp for about a deacde and haven't done it. I'd spend less time worrying about the Pats and more on your own Golden Boy, who from all reports has his own teammates disliking him.

Cheers.

BlitzburghRockCity
09-03-2005, 12:23 AM
Yes the pressure is on us, I'll agree w/ you there... but there's no valid reports of anybody team mate of Ben disliking him at all. He's loved the by city,and the team and coaches believe in him.

Livinginthe past
09-03-2005, 03:27 PM
Please do...reading your responses in this thread showed me that the Pats love you have is much less about facts and figures, and much more about the crazy man-love you have for the team, and especially Brady.

Brady is a pretty vanilla dude, or has been...then he went on SNL, and then he stated that he thought he could be a player coach, since the OC position in NE is still weirdly up in the air.

Is he buying into his own bullshit yet? Is he thinking he's a star? Will this affect his '05 performance? Just more questions on an expanding list of questions the Pats will have to answer this year...

Suitanim,

I wish you hadn't lowered yourself (pardon the pun) into referring to my appreciation of Tom Brady's immense talents in some sort of homosexual context.

Can I not say that I think he is the best QB in the league without people like you telling me I want his children?

Although now I mention it - he does have a great ass!

If all a NFL team has to worry about is nonsense rhetorical questions of the ilk you typed above then they would have VERY LITTLE to worry about.

Im sure you must be aware of the weakness in your knock-kneed arguments.....

NM

Livinginthe past
09-03-2005, 03:33 PM
Yes the pressure is on us, I'll agree w/ you there... but there's no valid reports of anybody team mate of Ben disliking him at all. He's loved the by city,and the team and coaches believe in him.

I have read this thing about Ben being 'unpopular' in the locker-room on a couple of forums- but for now thats all it is...rumours.

On a different thread a mentioned quickly the phenomona where the Media pre-selects its chosen few - in terms of teams (Colts) and players (Manning(s), Moss, etc) - and if anybody dare upstage them (see Patriots, Brady and Big Ben) then they are subjected to the harshest media scrutiny that just appears to be waiting for them to fail.

Im pretty sick of reading about how Ben is going to fail this year - he had an absolutely outstanding first year - way above what could have been expected of him - now it seems the Media has decided that he is getting a litttle too big for his boots and have decided to take him down a peg or two...by fair means or foul.

Cheers

NM

SteelCityMan786
09-03-2005, 09:21 PM
Patriots will suck. Brady Will Suck. It's the Bottom Line.

Dirtywater
09-03-2005, 10:50 PM
Patriots will suck. Brady Will Suck. It's the Bottom Line.


Post. Of. The. Year.

BlitzburghRockCity
09-06-2005, 08:52 PM
I have read this thing about Ben being 'unpopular' in the locker-room on a couple of forums- but for now thats all it is...rumours.

On a different thread a mentioned quickly the phenomona where the Media pre-selects its chosen few - in terms of teams (Colts) and players (Manning(s), Moss, etc) - and if anybody dare upstage them (see Patriots, Brady and Big Ben) then they are subjected to the harshest media scrutiny that just appears to be waiting for them to fail.

Im pretty sick of reading about how Ben is going to fail this year - he had an absolutely outstanding first year - way above what could have been expected of him - now it seems the Media has decided that he is getting a litttle too big for his boots and have decided to take him down a peg or two...by fair means or foul.

Cheers

NM

Yeah rumors just suck dont they.. I know Im as tired of hearing the ones about Ben as you are the ones about the Pats already destined to have an off year. We just take it w/ a grain of salt and laugh all the way into the postseason. :cool:

Suitanim
09-06-2005, 09:01 PM
I never said Brady was gay...why did all the Pats fans read that into my posts?

Livinginthe past
09-07-2005, 06:29 AM
I never said Brady was gay...why did all the Pats fans read that into my posts?

If you read my post regarding this more closely you will see that I was referring to MY appreciation of Tom Brady's talent and the homoerotic undertones you used to describe them....eg "the crazy man-love you have for the team, especially Brady"

You show me a post where somebody said you called Tom Brady gay and ill show you a post you have mis-understood.

Cheers

NM

ironcitychef
09-08-2005, 12:59 AM
I still feel Brady is more valuable than Dillon in the scope of things. It is strange that he is now more vocal in interviews and sound bites than ever before. We'll see how this plays out...:coffee: . As for popularity, I can only imagine it was the imposter Ben that might be under question as Ben is almost next to Mario already in city love. Question, which is the bigger dish? People who fail to pick the Pats to win it all(since they won three of four) or people who feel we are going to lose at least 5-6 more games and be out of the playoffs? My opinion, you guys always say you get no respect, but we could lose 5 more games and be 10 -6[nothing to sneeze at]yet Baltimore is the greatest since slice bread. Not to mention even in bad years we usually split with BAL. Just wondering...