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tony hipchest
01-08-2007, 09:53 AM
i couldnt tell if belichump donkey punched him in the back of the head or just threw him aside.

did anyone see this? there were about a dozen people surrounding mangini after the game yesterday, taking pictures, and belichick shoved through them all to "hug" mangini. you could tell he was pissed that he even had to appraoch him, by how he slammed the camera man standing right in front of mangini.

and some people call j. del rio classless?

bradness113
01-08-2007, 09:54 AM
Nah bro,

just did a swim move on him

hahaha

Hines0wnz
01-08-2007, 11:14 AM
Oh yeah, Belichek is class. Of course he wanted to hug him after he beat him. When he lost in the regular season you'd think he was about to get the plague or something. What a piece of work he is.

3 to be 4
01-08-2007, 11:25 AM
great coach though. in a "down" year. lets Branch,Givens, McGinest, and Vinatieri walk and goes 12-4 with a playoff win with a posibility for more and 2 first round picks coming up. Now THATS an organization.

Wouldnt want him for a Pastor, but theres nobody id rather have coaching my football team.

klick81
01-08-2007, 11:41 AM
No thanks.

Stillers#1
01-08-2007, 11:55 AM
this guy has as much class as one of my ass-hairs. He needs to remember he coached the Browns, and hasn't always been a "god".

sumo
01-08-2007, 12:16 PM
Belichek learned that from Parcells -- you get to a certain perceived stature and you're allowed to shove or punch people on national television and it's ok becuase everybody thinks you're great...

tony hipchest
01-08-2007, 04:36 PM
the guys on PTI and "around the horn" have compared what 'chick did to baseball players randy johnson and kenny rogers' incidents. i know rogers was suspended. not sure about johnson. he took some heat for it though.

MACH1
01-08-2007, 04:44 PM
In the WWE its called a closeline.:sofunny:

tony hipchest
01-08-2007, 04:51 PM
In the WWE its called a closeline.:sofunny:
:chuckle: in the hollywood papparazzi its called shoving a camera up ones nose. the more i see it, the worse it looks.

its funny since everybody already knows what a dick he is he will get a free pass. if it were tony dungy, it would be a bigger story than tony romo pulling a bengals

83-Steelers-43
01-08-2007, 05:07 PM
BB as a coach: Good

BB as a person: Proving to be a bigger horses ass day after day.

While the actions were different, why does Kenny Rogers take heat for what he did (and rightfully so), but this will get pushed under the carpet for BB? Tony put it best, the guy is a dick. Plain and simple.

3 to be 4
01-08-2007, 05:16 PM
yeah, but hes our dick!!!

................. or something like that.

83-Steelers-43
01-08-2007, 05:24 PM
yeah, but hes our dick!!!

................. or something like that.

LOL. Good to hear you stick by him through thick and thin.

Please believe me, I don't hold anything against the guy. I've always respected the way he has handled his team and his abilities as a HC.

But for me at this point, he's quickly joining the ranks of Holmgren, Billick and Saban for the biggest jackass.

tony hipchest
01-08-2007, 05:26 PM
yeah, but hes our dick!!!

................. or something like that.lol. but really. how does he repeatedly get away with this crap? i always hear what a classy team the patriots are, but i dont see it

. im fine with people calling them a good or even great team but when they start paying lip service and calling them "classy" on top of everything else, i just find it bogus. a head coach is the face of the team/ a representative of the organization. cowhers "good guy image" one reason the steelers are/were regarded as such a classy organization despite joey porter punching out a player before a game or chasing a player out to the bus.

sumo
01-09-2007, 12:24 AM
:chuckle: in the hollywood papparazzi its called shoving a camera up ones nose. the more i see it, the worse it looks.

its funny since everybody already knows what a dick he is he will get a free pass. if it were tony dungy, it would be a bigger story than tony romo pulling a bengals

No kidding - anyone who descends from the Parcells dick head coaching tree will always get a pass - funnier thing for me would be if the camera man dropped his camera and kicked his ass because you know he could ...

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
01-09-2007, 12:48 AM
And when is the guy going to take of that tired old gray hooded sweatshirt with the sleeves cut off his body. If it's 175 degrees of 20 degrees below zero he's wearing that shirt. I'm POSITIVE it stands in the corner and waits for him on gameday. I expect to see "the shirt" again in San Diego --- he won't leave home without it.

See shirt in photo ...

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/

hardwork
01-09-2007, 02:27 AM
Ahh, such jealousy. I love it.

BTW, Belichick didn't descend from the Parcels tree. Parcels never went to a SB, let alone win one, without Belichick. How many SBs has Belichick been to without Parcels?

I really enjoy watching the phoney football fans in here talk their trash. You guys wouldn't know the end zone from the mens room.

X-Terminator
01-09-2007, 02:36 AM
Ahh, such jealousy. I love it.

BTW, Belichick didn't descend from the Parcels tree. Parcels never went to a SB, let alone win one, without Belichick. How many SBs has Belichick been to without Parcels?

I really enjoy watching the phoney football fans in here talk their trash. You guys wouldn't know the end zone from the mens room.

It's jealousy to point out that Belichick isn't the "saint" that so many people think he is? Since when? Enlighten me.

hardwork
01-09-2007, 02:45 AM
It's jealousy to point out that Belichick isn't the "saint" that so many people think he is? Since when? Enlighten me.


Anyone who thinks football coaches are saints should skip enlightenment and go right for reincarnation. They need to further their education via another round in samsara.

Preacher
01-09-2007, 03:20 AM
Anyone who thinks football coaches are saints should skip enlightenment and go right for reincarnation. They need to further their education via another round in samsara.

No, but football coaches should be held to a level of behavior equal to thier place. They are leaders of 60 some odd men. Neither thier position nor thier income gives them the right to act like an ass towards other people, ESPECIALLY when it has NOTHING to do with football.

For instance, Patriots playing the Steelers, one of the Pats players got hurt. It seemed pretty bad so a Steeler trainer came out to be of help. Belicheck told him to F--- off and get the F--- away from his player...

Saint? no. But a minimal level of decency would be nice.

hardwork
01-09-2007, 03:36 AM
For instance, Patriots playing the Steelers, one of the Pats players got hurt. It seemed pretty bad so a Steeler trainer came out to be of help. Belicheck told him to F--- off and get the F--- away from his player...

Lol, we had our trainer out there. Your trainer went out there to spy. Damn right Belichick told him f--- off. Next time one of your trainers pulls that sh*t Wilfork is going to out there and knock him out.

klick81
01-09-2007, 10:59 AM
Lol, we had our trainer out there. Your trainer went out there to spy. Damn right Belichick told him f--- off. Next time one of your trainers pulls that sh*t Wilfork is going to out there and knock him out.

Trainer=spy?! LMAO...talk about delusions of grandeur.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-09-2007, 12:18 PM
Lol, we had our trainer out there. Your trainer went out there to spy. Damn right Belichick told him f--- off. Next time one of your trainers pulls that sh*t Wilfork is going to out there and knock him out.


I realize that he’s “the mastermind” but to try and excuse what he did as "gameplanning" is just plain silly and uneducated. There’s not going to be anything that a trainer can get from providing immediate assistance that won’t be disclosed in the injury reports....I guess Belichick should have held up a blanket and ran along side the cart when Light was taken off the field ...so we "wouldnt know" how serious the injury was.

PLEASE!!!:blah: :blah: :blah:

...and if his highness ever pushed a camera in my face he would end up with the worlds largest colonoscopy...and I would have to check my cameras warranty to see if it covered anal damage

sumo
01-09-2007, 12:31 PM
Lol, we had our trainer out there. Your trainer went out there to spy. Damn right Belichick told him f--- off. Next time one of your trainers pulls that sh*t Wilfork is going to out there and knock him out.

??????????????????????????????????????????????

Livinginthe past
01-09-2007, 02:52 PM
Anyone who thinks football coaches are saints should skip enlightenment and go right for reincarnation. They need to further their education via another round in samsara.

Lol, we had our trainer out there. Your trainer went out there to spy. Damn right Belichick told him f--- off. Next time one of your trainers pulls that sh*t Wilfork is going to out there and knock him out.

These are two of the funniest comments I have read here in a while - the second made me laugh out loud.

Just the image of Wilfork playing the enforcer is fantastic.

:cheers: HW

This league really needs the bad boy Raiders to make a comeback - this is one of the most pussified threads I have read in a while.

Its a 'mans game' when Brady gets nailed in the back on a late cheap shot hit, but when a bunch of moron photographers get in the way suddenly its a game for gentlemen.

Puhhh-lease.

Problem is, people dont respect greatness anymore..in fact the less enlightened have a hard time even identifying it.

Still..... envy is a type of compliment, in a back handed sorta way!

Booooo Belichick.....the Pantomime Sauron of the NFL (a real bad guy but still Lord of the Rings)

NM

Livinginthe past
01-09-2007, 03:14 PM
Oh and it was such a huge ...punch...that one would have floored Tyson in his prime, I think.

Check it out.

What an ANIMAL!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GwDJ_7L8zi0

NM

sumo
01-09-2007, 03:29 PM
These are two of the funniest comments I have read here in a while - the second made me laugh out loud.

Just the image of Wilfork playing the enforcer is fantastic.

:cheers: HW

This league really needs the bad boy Raiders to make a comeback - this is one of the most pussified threads I have read in a while.

Its a 'mans game' when Brady gets nailed in the back on a late cheap shot hit, but when a bunch of moron photographers get in the way suddenly its a game for gentlemen.

Puhhh-lease.

Problem is, people dont respect greatness anymore..in fact the less enlightened have a hard time even identifying it.

Still..... envy is a type of compliment, in a back handed sorta way!

Booooo Belichick.....the Pantomime Sauron of the NFL (a real bad guy but still Lord of the Rings)

NM

I don't think anybody questions Belichick's coaching ability - the guy is obviously a great coach - but that doesn't change the fact that he looked like a complete ass when he did this - he could have done any number of things including - asking the security guards on each side of him to help him through (that's why he has them by the way) - but grabbing the dude and shoving him? no class any way you look at it - if any other coach with a clue ie Bill Walsh, Holmgren, Andy Reid, Cowher, Dungy had done the same thing - it would be a much bigger story - but since it's Belichick - everybody already knows he's a punk - so it's no surprise ... the same if Parcells had done it ..

fansince'76
01-09-2007, 03:42 PM
Oh and it was such a huge ...punch...that one would have floored Tyson in his prime, I think.

Check it out.

What an ANIMAL!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GwDJ_7L8zi0

NM

I watched it and saw nothing to merit a 3+ page thread on it here. Sorry, I don't see what the big deal is.

Livinginthe past
01-09-2007, 03:48 PM
I don't think anybody questions Belichick's coaching ability - the guy is obviously a great coach - but that doesn't change the fact that he looked like a complete ass when he did this - he could have done any number of things including - asking the security guards on each side of him to help him through (that's why he has them by the way) - but grabbing the dude and shoving him? no class any way you look at it - if any other coach with a clue ie Bill Walsh, Holmgren, Andy Reid, Cowher, Dungy had done the same thing - it would be a much bigger story - but since it's Belichick - everybody already knows he's a punk - so it's no surprise ... the same if Parcells had done it ..

Sure he could have asked security to do their job.....they were obviously on 'top form' that night - how many paparazzi where crowding the scene exactly?

I dont think its fair to label most of them 'sports photographers' - they were after the type of inconsequential 'drama' they had been hyping harder then the game - will Belichick and his pupil kiss and make up after a couple of 'cold handshakes'

Personally, I couldnt wait for the game to finish just to see how that would play out.

Paparazzi sounds about right.

Sorry the whole thing plays out like a bad soap opera, I know alot of people were fed up of this dumb side dish drama way before the game even started....

Was Bill wrong to push that camera in that guys face, sure he was, but it was a heat of the moment reaction to be being crowded by tens of jostling snappers and he apologised to the guy afterward.

Anyone wants to make more of it than that is either a Boston Globe reporter or has too much time on their hands in the playoffs.

NM

Livinginthe past
01-09-2007, 03:49 PM
I watched it and saw nothing to merit a 3+ page thread on it here. Sorry, I don't see what the big deal is.

You didnt see the 'donkey punch' then?

I dont know how you missed that :wink02:

NM

3 to be 4
01-09-2007, 03:53 PM
That's what the Clowns thought too, I guess he didn't have his front office man there.




If a team has "The best depth " who gets the credit the coach or the player personnel man?:wink02:


He's responsible for both.

tony hipchest
01-09-2007, 04:00 PM
yet jack del rio is so "classless" :rolleyes:

i think my experiment here is complete.

Stillers#1
01-09-2007, 04:03 PM
This league really needs the bad boy Raiders to make a comeback - this is one of the most pussified threads I have read in a while.

Its a 'mans game' when Brady gets nailed in the back on a late cheap shot hit, but when a bunch of moron photographers get in the way suddenly its a game for gentlemen.
Puhhh-lease.

Problem is, people dont respect greatness anymore..in fact the less enlightened have a hard time even identifying it.

Still..... envy is a type of compliment, in a back handed sorta way!

Booooo Belichick.....the Pantomime Sauron of the NFL (a real bad guy but still Lord of the Rings)

NM


So LITP if you happen to be doing your job somehwere, and you get in my way somehow, and I sock you in the back of the head, it makes YOU less of a man right? The photogarhper wasn't expecting to get hit, and doesn't have to (typically) worry about the same hazards of the job as BRady would.

Brady plays football and should expect to get hit, a cameraman, who probably makes about 1/10 of the salary that Belichek and his FUPA do, shouldn't have to be worried about getting hit in the back in the head by an ******* of a coach.

You wanna be a dick to media during press-conferences, fine. But its another thing to punch a dude who doesn't even see you, it actually makes Belichek LESS of a man, in my book.

fansince'76
01-09-2007, 04:35 PM
yet jack del rio is so "classless" :rolleyes:

Apples and oranges, Tony. Reaching around a cameraman from behind and giving him a shove to get him out of the way was rude, granted. A coach advocating that his defensive players should spear opponents endangering not only the opposing players but themselves is downright irresponsible.

Alot of folks on this thread are making like what Belichick did was 20X worse than Dennis Rodman kicking a cameraman in the nuts, when this is simply not the case. There was no "punch" here that I could see.

Livinginthe past
01-09-2007, 04:43 PM
Apples and oranges, Tony. Reaching around a cameraman from behind and giving him a shove to get him out of the way was rude, granted. A coach advocating that his defensive players should spear opponents endangering not only the opposing players but themselves is downright irresponsible.

Alot of folks on this thread are making like what Belichick did was 20X worse than Dennis Rodman kicking a cameraman in the nuts, when this is simply not the case. There was no "punch" here that I could see.

Bingo again.

Hey 76, you are the perfect antidote to Tony's crazed theories.

NM

Stillers#1
01-09-2007, 04:47 PM
Apples and oranges, Tony. Reaching around a cameraman from behind and giving him a shove to get him out of the way was rude, granted. A coach advocating that his defensive players should spear opponents endangering not only the opposing players but themselves is downright irresponsible.

Alot of folks on this thread are making like what Belichick did was 20X worse than Dennis Rodman kicking a cameraman in the nuts, when this is simply not the case. There was no "punch" here that I could see.

Hey, watch whose mouth you are shoving those words into. I don't think anyone here will make that observation. I expect shit like this from Rodman though, not Belichek, but hey if you want to loop Rodman in with Belichek, well you said it not me.

I do think a simple apology is in order.

Livinginthe past
01-09-2007, 04:48 PM
So LITP if you happen to be doing your job somehwere, and you get in my way somehow, and I sock you in the back of the head, it makes YOU less of a man right? The photogarhper wasn't expecting to get hit, and doesn't have to (typically) worry about the same hazards of the job as BRady would.

Brady plays football and should expect to get hit, a cameraman, who probably makes about 1/10 of the salary that Belichek and his FUPA do, shouldn't have to be worried about getting hit in the back in the head by an ******* of a coach.

You wanna be a dick to media during press-conferences, fine. But its another thing to punch a dude who doesn't even see you, it actually makes Belichek LESS of a man, in my book.

You know what the photographer was supposed to be doing?

Taking pictures of Belichick and Mangini - what did he actually do (along with about 40 of his colleagues)? He became the story - cardinal error for reporter or 'sports photographer'?

Maybe if he paid attention to whatever he was supposed to be taking pictures of this wouldnt have happened.

Also, it appears the 'repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth' motto has worked a treat on you - there was no punch....NO PUNCH....NO PUNCH let alone in the back of the head?

What clip were you watching exactly?

Its right there earlier in the thread - go take another look at the punch in the back of the head :thumbsup:

NM

Stillers#1
01-09-2007, 04:51 PM
You know what the photographer was supposed to be doing?

Taking pictures of Belichick and Mangini - what did he actually do (along with about 40 of his colleagues)? He became the story - cardinal error for reporter or 'sports photographer'?

Maybe if he paid attention to whatever he was supposed to be taking pictures of this wouldnt have happened.

Also, it appears the 'repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth' motto has worked a treat on you - there was no punch....NO PUNCH....NO PUNCH let alone in the back of the head?

What clip were you watching exactly?

Its right there earlier in the thread - go take another look at the punch in the back of the head :thumbsup:

NM


Then it was a shove to the face, whatever you wanna call it. It does't matter what kind of scented toilet paper your using LITP, this shit still stinks.

Belichek made this a story by being an *******, a simple nudge would have done, or for that matter let security do their job.

Amazing how badly he wants to shake Mangini's hand when he wins isn't it?

Livinginthe past
01-09-2007, 04:51 PM
I do think a simple apology is in order.

He already apologised - yesterday.

NM

MasterOfPuppets
01-09-2007, 04:54 PM
i heard he stabbed him with a finger nail file before he punched him.....:jawdrop:

Stillers#1
01-09-2007, 04:54 PM
He already apologised - yesterday.

NM

Well then....issue solved...he's still a dick though.

Livinginthe past
01-09-2007, 04:56 PM
Then it was a shove to the face, whatever you wanna call it. It does't matter what kind of scented toilet paper your using LITP, this shit still stinks.

Belichek made this a story by being an *******, a simple nudge would have done, or for that matter let security do their job.

Amazing how badly he wants to shake Mangini's hand when he wins isn't it?

Yeah, yeah it stinks.

This has really taken the gloss off this years playoff run...ok..it hasnt really.

NM

fansince'76
01-09-2007, 04:56 PM
Well then....issue solved...he's still a dick though.

Maybe so, but if he offered to leave the Pats tomorrow to fill Cowher's slot you wouldn't be ecstatic to have him? I would.

Stillers#1
01-09-2007, 04:58 PM
Maybe so, but if he offered to leave the Pats tomorrow to fill Cowher's slot you wouldn't be ecstatic to have him? I would.

Honestly, no I wouldn't want him. He is a good football mind, but he has the personality of a popcorn fart.

fansince'76
01-09-2007, 04:59 PM
Honestly, no I wouldn't want him. He is a good football mind, but he has the personality of a popcorn fart.

Yep, and Noll was never a prick himself. Just ask Terry Bradshaw about that one.

Stillers#1
01-09-2007, 05:01 PM
Hey I wasn't alive for the good part of Noll's run. You wanna be a prick to your players, fine they affect your job. But like I said, the dude was just trying to do his job, a low paying one at that, and Belichek punked him for no reason.

tony hipchest
01-09-2007, 05:07 PM
Bingo again.

Hey 76, you are the prefect antidote to Tony's crazed theories.

NM

i dont see the crazed theory you are imagining :confused: (unless a question is all of a sudden a 'theory' :chuckle: :

i couldnt tell if belichump donkey punched him in the back of the head or just threw him aside.

i guess this didnt happen then?:

there were about a dozen people surrounding mangini after the game yesterday, taking pictures, and belichick shoved through them all to "hug" mangini. you could tell he was pissed that he even had to appraoch him, by how he slammed the camera man standing right in front of mangini.

and some people call j. del rio classless?

i dont see the apples and oranges in the different degrees of classlessness, especially when LITP longs for the days of the rough guy raiders where a hit on a qb like brady would not only be condoned, but celebrated. one of the finer flip-flops ive seen in a while, indeed.

isnt a bunch of crazed paparrazzi sneaking their way onto the field, rather than actual sports photographers, a much more wacky theory?

anyways the experiment was to see if patfans go through the same extremes to defend belichicks actions, that they do to crucify another head coach(del rio). interesting, for sure.

glass house theory proved correct.

klick81
01-09-2007, 07:16 PM
Maybe so, but if he offered to leave the Pats tomorrow to fill Cowher's slot you wouldn't be ecstatic to have him? I would.

No. Not to say that I wouldn't get used to it after a while, but I would absolutely hate it for the first few years.

fansince'76
01-09-2007, 10:07 PM
....I would absolutely hate it for the first few years.

Even if we won another Lombardi or two?

tony hipchest
01-09-2007, 10:11 PM
Even if we won another Lombardi or two?i think thats where the "gettin used to it after a while" part comes in. hell, even patfans think 'chick is squeaky clean after a sb or 3. the proof is in the pudding i guess.

even hitler was considered a great leader, right?

gude fore ze germanz, bad fore ze vorld.

Livinginthe past
01-09-2007, 11:03 PM
anyways the experiment was to see if patfans go through the same extremes to defend belichicks actions, that they do to crucify another head coach(del rio). interesting, for sure.


You got called on your Del Rio = Belichick theory by a Steelers fan.


Thats all I need to say.

NM

tony hipchest
01-09-2007, 11:13 PM
Problem is, people dont respect greatness anymore..in fact the less enlightened have a hard time even identifying it.

NM

you are so correct on this statement.

NFL all-time victories (including postseason)

1. Don Shula (1963-95) 347-173-6
2. George Halas (1920-67) 324-152-32
3. Tom Landry (1960-88) 270-178-6
4. Curly Lambeau (1921-53) 230-135-22
5. Chuck Noll (1969-91) 209-156-1
6. Dan Reeves (1981-2003) 201-174-2
7. Chuck Knox (1973-94) 193-158-1
8. Marty Schottenheimer (1984-) 191-136-1
9. Bill Parcells (1983-) 174-130-1
10. Paul Brown (1950-75) 170-108-6
13. Bill Cowher (1992-2006) 161-99-1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Head coaches with most wins (regular season) with one team

1. George Halas (Bears) 318-148-31
2. Don Shula (Dolphins) 257-133-2
3. Tom Landry (Cowboys) 250-162-6
4. Curly Lambeau (Packers) 209-104-21
5. Chuck Noll (Steelers) 193-148-1
6. Paul Brown (Browns) 158-48-1
7. Bud Grant (Vikings) 158-96-5
8. Steve Owen (Giants) 151-100-17
9. Bill Cowher (Steelers) 149-90-1
10. Joe Gibbs (Redskins) 145-87-0

i'll let you do the math

bill cowher- (classless acts)=0, years to go- ???

youre not suggesting people should "respect" classless acts are you?

Livinginthe past
01-09-2007, 11:16 PM
Bill Cowher post season choker.

Put a guy like Belichick in charge of that era of Steelers players and they come out of it with more than one ring.

You got called on your Del Rio = Belichick theory by a Steelers fan.


Thats all I need to say.

NM

tony hipchest
01-09-2007, 11:17 PM
You got called on your Del Rio = Belichick theory by a Steelers fan.


Thats all I need to say.

NM
:chuckle: thats about ALL you can say.

are you putting all your $$$ on an "apples vs. oranges" defense of 1 other person whom you dont even know???

way to cop out.

:rofl:

tony hipchest
01-09-2007, 11:19 PM
Bill Cowher post season choker.

Put a guy like Belichick in charge of that era of Steelers players and they come out of it with more than one ring.



NMhe proved that with the browns and bledsoe (#1 pick and boarderline hof #'s) right?

sorry...wrong again

so anyways, here i am, posting on a steelers board, wondering why this post (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=13144) was moved from the NFL forum to the "blast furnace" while the person who moved it is calling our esteemed coach a "choker" in the same aformentionned NFL forum :confused:

*tsk tsk tsk*

why the "cowher is a choker" remarks? could it be because quite a few steelerfans agreed that belichick lacks class?

like they say, the apple doesnt fall far from the tree.

hardwork
01-10-2007, 12:50 AM
Anyone wants to make more of it than that is either a Boston Globe reporter or has too much time on their hands in the playoffs.

NM


Yeah, and when the sports writers at the Globe start preaching morality, I start looking for my gun.

fansince'76
01-10-2007, 09:44 AM
Bill Cowher post season choker.

Put a guy like Belichick in charge of that era of Steelers players and they come out of it with more than one ring.NM

Possibly, but I don't see it - Korkie and O'Donnell would have thrown the big INTs at precisely the wrong time in the postseason regardless of whose nameplate was on the door of the HC's office. They sucked and were the primary reasons we couldn't get over the hump so many times.

Big D
01-10-2007, 02:16 PM
Bill Cowher post season choker.

Put a guy like Belichick in charge of that era of Steelers players and they come out of it with more than one ring.



NM

First of all. If cowher would have shoved the camera man you would be all over this board saying how wrong it was blah blah blah. And you almost have to wonder who should get the credit for the patriots 3 rings. Tom brady or bill belichick. I'm not discounting bill for a second. But the season before the pats won the superbown in 2001 they were 5-11. Look as the misery he put the browns fans through when he here in cleveland.. Heres some information for you litp.
In 2003, the New England Patriots released popular safety Lawyer Milloy, who signed with the Buffalo Bills and helped his new team shutout New England on opening weekend, 31-0. On an episode of NFL Countdown, Tom Jackson claimed that the Patriots were not behind head coach Bill Belichick, saying the following: "Let me say this clearly: they hate their coach." His provocative claim drew fervent denials from the Patriots locker room. Belichick was stunned by the remark and the lack of an apology as the season continued. The Patriots recovered from the Buffalo loss and finished the regular season at a league-best 14-2. After the team was victorious in Super Bowl XXXVIII over the Carolina Panthers, Jackson attempted to shake Belichick's hand. The coach responded: "Go f@ck yourself." The post-game interview with Belichick was handled entirely by Chris Berman.[1]

Belichick is often disparaged for the unconventional and arguably unprofessional attire he wears on the sideline while coaching. He usually sports a Patriots emblazoned hooded sweatshirt, with or without cutoff sleeves, depending on the weather conditions. While colleagues such as Jacksonville Jaguars? head coach Jack Del Rio and the San Francisco 49ers? head coach Mike Nolan wear tailored suits and ties while coaching games, Belichick?s sweatshirt certainly seems irregular. Tony Kornheiser jokingly criticized Belichick?s clothing during a Monday Night Football game televised on October 30, 2006, stating that ?Sure, Belichick is a genius, but? he?s in a sweatshirt like some homeless guy?Did you see [him] tonight with the cut-off look? You can get that sweatshirt for thirty-nine cents at an army surplus store!? [4]

In addition, Belichick is often criticized for his spiteful demeanor towards the media and towards opposing team?s coaches. In the Patriots? previous two 2006 regular season matchups against the New York Jets, Belichick snubbed former disciple and current Jets? head coach Eric Mangini at midfield after the game by refusing to shake hands with or acknowledge Mangini?s sportsmanlike gestures. On January 7, 2007, when the two teams met again the playoffs, Belichick decided to exchange a congratulatory hug with Mangini, but in the process pushed a photographer out of the way

Livinginthe past
01-10-2007, 02:22 PM
Yeah, and when the sports writers at the Globe start preaching morality, I start looking for my gun.

Its a very strange set up at the Globe, they really are an incredibly anti-Patriots organisation, I guess its because their primary concern is the Red Sox and every time the Patriots taste success its takes the focus away from that team.

I've never seen so many hacks obsessed with finding the absolute negative in any given situation - they seem to take pleasure in reporting the worst news.

NM

sumo
01-10-2007, 02:27 PM
Bill Cowher post season choker.

Put a guy like Belichick in charge of that era of Steelers players and they come out of it with more than one ring.



NM

I think Brady has more to do with the success of the Patriots then Belichick does - If Bledsoe doesn't get injured and starts at QB for another two years - the Patriots would have been a .500 team at best ...and who knows what would have happened to Belichick - look at his record as a head coach before and after Brady ...the guy is a great coach - but Brady deserves more credit than he does...

Livinginthe past
01-10-2007, 02:37 PM
First of all. If cowher would have shoved the camera man you would be all over this board saying how wrong it was blah blah blah.

Prove it!

You can't.

One of the few things im pretty bored of round here is people attributing comments to me
(and Patriots fans in general) that havent been made.

For example, and this is a recent one, 'patriots fans think Tom Brady can play every position on the field'.

Its called a straw man argument, and its woefully transparent.

I think Cowher is a good guy who coaches poorly when pressure is applied and his 'A' game taken away.

And you almost have to wonder who should get the credit for the patriots 3 rings. Tom brady or bill belichick. I'm not discounting bill for a second. But the season before the pats won the superbown in 2001 they were 5-11.

Its typical of fans of opposing teams to damn the Patriots with faint praise. For the first 2-3 years of Brady's career all you heard was that Belichicks defense made it easy for Brady to win so many games, that Brady was a 'system QB'.

Now the shoe is on the other foot, and its time to praise Brady and take away credit from Belichick.

Im not going to try and convince you otherwise, its the the type of thing that you cant have explained to you - if you cant see it with your own two eyes.

Look as the misery he put the browns fans through when he here in cleveland.. Heres some information for you litp.
In 2003, the New England Patriots released popular safety Lawyer Milloy, who signed with the Buffalo Bills and helped his new team shutout New England on opening weekend, 31-0. On an episode of NFL Countdown, Tom Jackson claimed that the Patriots were not behind head coach Bill Belichick, saying the following: "Let me say this clearly: they hate their coach." His provocative claim drew fervent denials from the Patriots locker room. Belichick was stunned by the remark and the lack of an apology as the season continued. The Patriots recovered from the Buffalo loss and finished the regular season at a league-best 14-2. After the team was victorious in Super Bowl XXXVIII over the Carolina Panthers, Jackson attempted to shake Belichick's hand. The coach responded: "Go f@ck yourself." The post-game interview with Belichick was handled entirely by Chris Berman.[1]

Yada, yada Cleveland Browns - heard this one a million times.

Personally im embarrassed Bill done such a bad job there - look at all the outstanding succes that franchise has had since he left. :sofunny:

Tom Jackson is an a-hole who was looking to serve his own agenda by fabricating stories out of nothing - he seen a pro-bowl safety leave presumed this was the beginning of the end and wanted in on the ground floor so he could say what a clever boy he was.

What happened was that the Patriots has a superb season, won the SB and crushed Buffalo 31-0 in the reverse match of the opener.

As I say Jackson, like alot of mediots, is an agenda driven big mouth - you launch a baseless attack on a guy - dont expect to kiss and make up afterward.


Belichick is often disparaged for the unconventional and arguably unprofessional attire he wears on the sideline while coaching. He usually sports a Patriots emblazoned hooded sweatshirt, with or without cutoff sleeves, depending on the weather conditions. While colleagues such as Jacksonville Jaguars’ head coach Jack Del Rio and the San Francisco 49ers’ head coach Mike Nolan wear tailored suits and ties while coaching games, Belichick’s sweatshirt certainly seems irregular. Tony Kornheiser jokingly criticized Belichick’s clothing during a Monday Night Football game televised on October 30, 2006, stating that “Sure, Belichick is a genius, but… he’s in a sweatshirt like some homeless guy…Did you see [him] tonight with the cut-off look? You can get that sweatshirt for thirty-nine cents at an army surplus store!” [4]

And......sorry what am i supposed to be reading here?

That Belichick isnt a great dresser?

Hardly a front page scoop, if you dont mind my saying.

In addition, Belichick is often criticized for his spiteful demeanor towards the media and towards opposing team’s coaches. In the Patriots’ previous two 2006 regular season matchups against the New York Jets, Belichick snubbed former disciple and current Jets’ head coach Eric Mangini at midfield after the game by refusing to shake hands with or acknowledge Mangini’s sportsmanlike gestures. On January 7, 2007, when the two teams met again the playoffs, Belichick decided to exchange a congratulatory hug with Mangini, but in the process pushed a photographer out of the way

Been there done this earlier.

You think the 'media' are just a bunch of nice guys collecting a pay check?

Get real - they are after the story that makes their name, whether they have to fabricate ot or not.

NM

Livinginthe past
01-10-2007, 02:47 PM
I think Brady has more to do with the success of the Patriots then Belichick does - If Bledsoe doesn't get injured and starts at QB for another two years - the Patriots would have been a .500 team at best ...and who knows what would have happened to Belichick - look at his record as a head coach before and after Brady ...the guy is a great coach - but Brady deserves more credit than he does...

Thats fine.

Personally, I dont worry too much about dividing credit up between them.

They are both the best in their field in the NFL - and would probably have plenty of success without each other.

NM

Big D
01-10-2007, 02:48 PM
Prove it!

You can't.

One of the few things im pretty bored of round here is people attributing comments to me
(and Patriots fans in general) that havent been made.

For example, and this is a recent one, 'patriots fans think Tom Brady can play every position on the field'.

Its called a straw man argument, and its woefully transparent.

I think Cowher is a good guy who coaches poorly when pressure is applied and his 'A' game taken away.



Its typical of fans of opposing teams to damn the Patriots with faint praise. For the first 2-3 years of Brady's career all you heard was that Belichicks defense made it easy for Brady to win so many games, that Brady was a 'system QB'.

Now the shoe is on the other foot, and its time to praise Brady and take away credit from Belichick.

Im not going to try and convince you otherwise, its the the type of thing that you cant have explained to you - if you cant see it with your own two eyes.



Yada, yada Cleveland Browns - heard this one a million times.

Personally im embarrassed Bill done such a bad job there - look at all the outstanding succes that franchise has had since he left. :sofunny:

Tom Jackson is an a-hole who was looking to serve his own agenda by fabricating stories out of nothing - he seen a pro-bowl safety leave presumed this was the beginning of the end and wanted in on the ground floor so he could say what a clever boy he was.

What happened was that the Patriots has a superb season, won the SB and crushed Buffalo 31-0 in the reverse match of the opener.

As I say Jackson, like alot of mediots, is an agenda driven big mouth - you launch a baseless attack on a guy - dont expect to kiss and make up afterward.




And......sorry what am i supposed to be reading here?

That Belichick isnt a great dresser?

Hardly a front page scoop, if you dont mind my saying.



Been there done this earlier.

You think the 'media' are just a bunch of nice guys collecting a pay check?

Get real - they are after the story that makes their name, whether they have to fabricate ot or not.

NM

First of all I dont agree with everything that was in this article. Nor did I ever try to put words in your mouth. I'm one of the biggest realist there is. Obviously Belichick has more rings then cowher and far more success in the playoffs. I just found belichicks record before brady rather interesting. 5-11 season before there superbowl year. I will be the first to say if cowher wouldnt have brought us a ring he wouldnt have gotten it done here. I saw cowhers short commings 14 out of his 15 years. All I was saying to you is sometimes you tend to defend your team a little bit to much and dont see things on an outsiders perspective. And I dont take any credit away of what belichick or brady has done so dont put words in my mouth.

Livinginthe past
01-10-2007, 02:59 PM
First of all I dont agree with everything that was in this article. Nor did I ever try to put words in your mouth. I'm one of the biggest realist there is. Obviously Belichick has more rings then cowher and far more success in the playoffs. I just found belichicks record before brady rather interesting. 5-11 season before there superbowl year. I will be the first to say if cowher wouldnt have brought us a ring he wouldnt have gotten it done here. I saw cowhers short commings 14 out of his 15 years. All I was saying to you is sometimes you tend to defend your team a little bit to much and dont see things on an outsiders perspective. And I dont take any credit away of what belichick or brady has done so dont put words in my mouth.

You actually did put words in my mouth.

First of all. If cowher would have shoved the camera man you would be all over this board saying how wrong it was blah blah blah.



I do defend my team, but I am no crazy homer.

I dont think the Patriots are the best team in the playoffs, but I still like their chances.

I think we have an awesome Front 7 and an ok-ish secondary that gets alot help from great defensive schemes.

I think our WR corps is extremely average, but benefits from playing with Brady.

How much more realistic do you want me to be?

NM

Big D
01-10-2007, 03:01 PM
You actually did put words in my mouth.



I do defend my team, but I am no crazy homer.

I dont think the Patriots are the best team in the playoffs, but I still like their chances.

I think we have an awesome Front 7 and an ok-ish secondary that gets alot help from great defensive schemes.

NM

alright i'm sorry for that. But I dont think you would have the same reaction if it would have been cowher. Just my opinion take it for what it's worth

sumo
01-10-2007, 03:10 PM
Thats fine.

Personally, I dont worry too much about dividing credit up between them.

They are both the best in their field in the NFL - and would probably have plenty of success without each other.

NM

I know you're getting bombarded on this thread - but IMO, I think Belichick didn't have a whole lot going on prior to Brady arriving on the scene - the Patriots were about where every other team has been with Bledsoe at QB -- very average....do you recall what your mindset was then - did you have any illusions of finsihing that year above .500 prior to Brady? - the previous year, they were 5-11 with Belichick...and 1-2 at the time Bledsoe got injured..

clevestinks
01-10-2007, 03:34 PM
Temper , Temper BB

Livinginthe past
01-10-2007, 03:38 PM
I know you're getting bombarded on this thread - but IMO, I think Belichick didn't have a whole lot going on prior to Brady arriving on the scene - the Patriots were about where every other team has been with Bledsoe at QB -- very average....do you recall what your mindset was then - did you have any illusions of finsihing that year above .500 prior to Brady? - the previous year, they were 5-11 with Belichick...and 1-2 at the time Bledsoe got injured..

Prior to Brady arriving we were a very average team, with an excellent coach.

We still had alot of handovers from the previous coaching regime, both personnel wise and in terms of general mentality.

I really believe that a coach has to be given alot of control in who plays for the team, how they are disciplined etc etc

Bledsoe was a big favorite in New England at the time, he had the whole 'gun slinger' thing going on, and even though we lost quite a few of those high scoring games Patriots fans felt that they were at least contending in most match ups.

It takes time for a coaches influence to trickle down through every facet of the organisation, maybe a draft or two in alot of cases - unless you can do what Sean Payton did - basically blow the team up and start again.

We had alot of big ego's, ego's that way out matched the size of their owners achievements - im thinking Ty Law, Drew Bledsoe, Lawyer Milloy....

What Belichick (and with the the aid of his personnel guy, Scott Pioli) was start the rebuild with character guys and shipped the high maintenance guys out the door.

Apart from his prowess in game time coaching, Belichicks great asset is identifying useful talent and surrounding himself with it - from QB's to assistant coaches right through to VP's of personnel.

Going back to the year Brady took over, there was by far a greater call from the local media and fanbase to get Bledsoe back into action ASAP - even if it meant dropping the QB who got us to the playoffs.

Personally speaking, I hoped we might finish above .500 but would never have expected it.

The Brady pick was a total fluke, if the New England management had truly recognised the level of talent present he would have gone 3 rounds earlier.

The 'genius' move was making him No.2 QB (ahead of Damon Huard of memory serves) and then recognising what he had on his hands and sticking with the guy despite the clamour for the return of Drew Bledsoe.

Incidentally, the replacement of Drew Bledsoe with Tom Brady was the origin of the personal vendetta perpetrated by Ron Borges (of the Boston Globe) - Drew Bledsoe had been the media darling due to his willingness to talk about everything and anything reporters could think of - when Belichick and Brady took the helm...that ended abruptly.

NM

fansince'76
01-10-2007, 04:41 PM
They are both the best in their field in the NFL (Belichick and Brady) - and would probably have plenty of success without each other.NM

Maybe, maybe not. I live in Denver and can tell you first hand that Shanahan was praised as a "mastermind" when he and Elway were winning back-to-back SBs in the late '90s. He hasn't looked like such a "mastermind" in the 7 years since Elway retired.

tony hipchest
01-10-2007, 04:45 PM
Maybe, maybe not. I live in Denver and can tell you first hand that Shanahan was praised as a "mastermind" when he and Elway were winning back-to-back SBs in the late '90s. He hasn't looked like such a "mastermind" in the 7 years since Elway retired.and on the flip side of that, if elway were playing with cowher through the 90's, cowher woulda been the genius and shanahan wouldve been replaced years ago. belichick is a lucky coach because of brady. thats about it. brady has proven that to me now.

sumo
01-10-2007, 05:03 PM
Prior to Brady arriving we were a very average team, with an excellent coach.

We still had alot of handovers from the previous coaching regime, both personnel wise and in terms of general mentality.

I really believe that a coach has to be given alot of control in who plays for the team, how they are disciplined etc etc

Bledsoe was a big favorite in New England at the time, he had the whole 'gun slinger' thing going on, and even though we lost quite a few of those high scoring games Patriots fans felt that they were at least contending in most match ups.

It takes time for a coaches influence to trickle down through every facet of the organisation, maybe a draft or two in alot of cases - unless you can do what Sean Payton did - basically blow the team up and start again.

We had alot of big ego's, ego's that way out matched the size of their owners achievements - im thinking Ty Law, Drew Bledsoe, Lawyer Milloy....

What Belichick (and with the the aid of his personnel guy, Scott Pioli) was start the rebuild with character guys and shipped the high maintenance guys out the door.

Apart from his prowess in game time coaching, Belichicks great asset is identifying useful talent and surrounding himself with it - from QB's to assistant coaches right through to VP's of personnel.

Going back to the year Brady took over, there was by far a greater call from the local media and fanbase to get Bledsoe back into action ASAP - even if it meant dropping the QB who got us to the playoffs.

Personally speaking, I hoped we might finish above .500 but would never have expected it.

The Brady pick was a total fluke, if the New England management had truly recognised the level of talent present he would have gone 3 rounds earlier.

The 'genius' move was making him No.2 QB (ahead of Damon Huard of memory serves) and then recognising what he had on his hands and sticking with the guy despite the clamour for the return of Drew Bledsoe.

Incidentally, the replacement of Drew Bledsoe with Tom Brady was the origin of the personal vendetta perpetrated by Ron Borges (of the Boston Globe) - Drew Bledsoe had been the media darling due to his willingness to talk about everything and anything reporters could think of - when Belichick and Brady took the helm...that ended abruptly.

NM

Thanks for being honest - I have always thought Bledsoe was overrated and I will be the first to admit that we would not have even made the playoffs let alone win a SB with Maddox at QB - and we had a great deffense, coaching staff and runningbacks - Ben was definetly the difference maker ...IMHO, anybody who won't admit that the QB position is the most important on the field is fooling themselves...

augustashark
01-11-2007, 01:19 PM
Prior to Brady arriving we were a very average team, with an excellent coach.
We still had alot of handovers from the previous coaching regime, both personnel wise and in terms of general mentality.

I really believe that a coach has to be given alot of control in who plays for the team, how they are disciplined etc etc

Bledsoe was a big favorite in New England at the time, he had the whole 'gun slinger' thing going on, and even though we lost quite a few of those high scoring games Patriots fans felt that they were at least contending in most match ups.

It takes time for a coaches influence to trickle down through every facet of the organisation, maybe a draft or two in alot of cases - unless you can do what Sean Payton did - basically blow the team up and start again.

We had alot of big ego's, ego's that way out matched the size of their owners achievements - im thinking Ty Law, Drew Bledsoe, Lawyer Milloy....

What Belichick (and with the the aid of his personnel guy, Scott Pioli) was start the rebuild with character guys and shipped the high maintenance guys out the door.

Apart from his prowess in game time coaching, Belichicks great asset is identifying useful talent and surrounding himself with it - from QB's to assistant coaches right through to VP's of personnel.

Going back to the year Brady took over, there was by far a greater call from the local media and fanbase to get Bledsoe back into action ASAP - even if it meant dropping the QB who got us to the playoffs.

Personally speaking, I hoped we might finish above .500 but would never have expected it.

The Brady pick was a total fluke, if the New England management had truly recognised the level of talent present he would have gone 3 rounds earlier.

The 'genius' move was making him No.2 QB (ahead of Damon Huard of memory serves) and then recognising what he had on his hands and sticking with the guy despite the clamour for the return of Drew Bledsoe.

Incidentally, the replacement of Drew Bledsoe with Tom Brady was the origin of the personal vendetta perpetrated by Ron Borges (of the Boston Globe) - Drew Bledsoe had been the media darling due to his willingness to talk about everything and anything reporters could think of - when Belichick and Brady took the helm...that ended abruptly.

NM


I don't know how you can say this with a straight face. BB was an excellent D cord nothing more. Even saying that is being generous, Hell you and I could have coached that D that the Giants had in the late 80's early 90's! Buddy Ryan was as good or better then BB as a D cord. I give props to NE for all of their success, but to tag BB as a excellent HC before he had Brady and starting winning is foolish.

Big D
01-11-2007, 01:28 PM
I don't know how you can say this with a straight face. BB was an excellent D cord nothing more. Even saying that is being generous, Hell you and I could have coached that D that the Giants had in the late 80's early 90's! Buddy Ryan was as good or better then BB as a D cord. I give props to NE for all of their success, but to tag BB as a excellent HC before he had Brady and starting winning is foolish.

Thats exactly why I posted that you may have to give brady more credit for the patriots success then Belichick. Brady makes his wr core better not Belichick. I find it funny the pats were 5-11 the season before brady. You take away brady the pats dont have 3 superbowls

Livinginthe past
01-11-2007, 02:13 PM
Thats exactly why I posted that you may have to give brady more credit for the patriots success then Belichick. Brady makes his wr core better not Belichick. I find it funny the pats were 5-11 the season before brady. You take away brady the pats dont have 3 superbowls

Brady definitely does increase the success of his WR corps, but plenty of HC's have made the mistake of trying to take advantage of such a talented QB by giving him lots of high class weapons ( see Peyton Manning, Indy Colts)

The clever part, as I see it, is the way Belichick/Pioli know how much they can lean on the guy and still have him make enough plays to allow the Patriots to keep winning.

Last year Brady carried an injury ravaged defense by throwing for a personal best and league best amount of yardage, and he also done it by maintaining his (approximate) career TD/INT ratio of 2:1

This year he has suceeded in getting his WR's to play well above their potential, including reject WR's from two teams who dont appear to have a great deal of depth in that area (Reche Caldwell from San Diego and Jabar Gaffney from the Houston Texans).

Did anyone think Jabar would make 8 catches for over 100 yards in this years postseason?

Going back to Belichick - he has two game plans in the Profootball Hall Of Fame - and one of my favorite playcalls was his intentional safety against Denver a few years back which allowed them to drive for the winning TD .

That is the stuff of genius, not just a guy who had the fortune of drafting a great QB in the 6th round.

Its funny, I have had this same argument many times over the last few years on various boards, only i've been defending Tom Brady against people who think he only hs three rings because he played with Adam Vinatieri.

NM

Big D
01-11-2007, 02:19 PM
Brady definitely does increase the success of his WR corps, but plenty of HC's have made the mistake of trying to take advantage of such a talented QB by giving him lots of high class weapons ( see Peyton Manning, Indy Colts)

The clever part, as I see it, is the way Belichick/Pioli know how much they can lean on the guy and still have him make enough plays to allow the Patriots to keep winning.

Last year Brady carried an injury ravaged defense by throwing for a personal best and league best amount of yardage, and he also done it by maintaining his (approximate) career TD/INT ratio of 2:1

This year he has suceeded in getting his WR's to play well above their potential, including reject WR's from two teams who dont appear to have a great deal of depth in that area (Reche Caldwell from San Diego and Jabar Gaffney from the Houston Texans).

Did anyone think Jabar would make 8 catches for over 100 yards in this years postseason?

Going back to Belichick - he has two game plans in the Profootball Hall Of Fame - and one of my favorite playcalls was his intentional safety against Denver a few years back which allowed them to drive for the winning TD .

That is the stuff of genius, not just a guy who had the fortune of drafting a great QB in the 6th round.

Its funny, I have had this same argument many times over the last few years on various boards, only i've been defending Tom Brady against people who think he only hs three rings because he played with Adam Vinatieri.

NM

I'm originally from the same state the adam vinatieri is from. And not even local vinatieri homers have sad anything like that. What I was thinking about this morning after watching mike and mike talk about brady is this. You hear so many people say how parcells hasnt won a superbowl without belichick. But how about this for food for thought. Belichick hasnt won anything without Weis.

Livinginthe past
01-11-2007, 02:40 PM
I'm originally from the same state the adam vinatieri is from. And not even local vinatieri homers have sad anything like that. What I was thinking about this morning after watching mike and mike talk about brady is this. You hear so many people say how parcells hasnt won a superbowl without belichick. But how about this for food for thought. Belichick hasnt won anything without Weis.

People have said it on this website.

You misunderstand me, I do think Brady is the best QB in football, and he is even, as people say, a GREAT QB. However, he doesn't have those three rings withough A.V. Plain and simple.


Thats a recent one from a few days ago.

How many years has Belichick had a chance to coach the Patriots without Charlie Weis?

One, is the answer - last year and we still won a game in the postseason.

Im pretty sure he didnt have any specifics talents that stopped veteran players fumbling the ball away on multiple occasions.

NM

Big D
01-11-2007, 02:45 PM
People have said it on this website.



Thats a recent one from a few days ago.

How many years has Belichick had a chance to coach the Patriots without Charlie Weis?

One, is the answer - last year and we still won a game in the postseason.

Im pretty sure he didnt have any specifics talents that stopped veteran players fumbling the ball away on multiple occasions.

NM

well brady said himself this week that it has been a long time since they have one a superbowl.

Livinginthe past
01-11-2007, 02:52 PM
well brady said himself this week that it has been a long time since they have one a superbowl.

Well he has won 3 SB's out of the last 5.

I think maybe he is a little spoilt :wink02:

Nm

Big D
01-11-2007, 02:55 PM
if brady wins a superbowl this year. I will come on here and say that Tom brady is the best playoff quarterback of all time. and possibly the greatest overall qb of all time.

Hines0wnz
01-11-2007, 03:02 PM
if brady wins a superbowl this year. I will come on here and say that Tom brady is the best playoff quarterback of all time. and possibly the greatest overall qb of all time.

:puke:

Black@Gold Forever32
01-11-2007, 03:05 PM
Well to me great coaches need great players and great players need great coaches. I hate to bring the NBA up in this conversation. But as a life long Bulls fan. My man Michael Jordan didn't win jack until Phil Jackson became HC of the Bulls. Plus look at Shaq/Kobe. Didn't win jack until Phil Jackson showed up in LA.

Shaq did win another title with the Heat. But Pat Riley another great coach took over for the Heat after Steve Van Gundy didn't get the job done.

I don't think Belichick is the so called genius alot of people think he is but he is still a great football coach. I don't think Little Bill should be thought of less of a football coach since he has a great QB. Hell I guess if we are going to do that I guess Chuck Noll wasn't the God Steelers fans think he is. I mean Noll had a great QB and a roster full of great players.

Like I said great players need great coaches and great coaches need great players to win championships.

Big D
01-11-2007, 03:07 PM
:puke:

I know its sick. But the guy will have won 4 superbowls. Thats unheard of.

augustashark
01-11-2007, 04:43 PM
Well to me great coaches need great players and great players need great coaches. I hate to bring the NBA up in this conversation. But as a life long Bulls fan. My man Michael Jordan didn't win jack until Phil Jackson became HC of the Bulls. Plus look at Shaq/Kobe. Didn't win jack until Phil Jackson showed up in LA.

Shaq did win another title with the Heat. But Pat Riley another great coach took over for the Heat after Steve Van Gundy didn't get the job done.

I don't think Belichick is the so called genius alot of people think he is but he is still a great football coach. I don't think Little Bill should be thought of less of a football coach since he has a great QB. Hell I guess if we are going to do that I guess Chuck Noll wasn't the God Steelers fans think he is. I mean Noll had a great QB and a roster full of great players.

Like I said great players need great coaches and great coaches need great players to win championships.

Don't start with this BS! Jordan started winning because he found out that he could not do it all on his own. Losses in the playoffs (vs detriot) taught him how to win not Pill Jackson! Also to say that it was because of Jackson takes away from how great Jordan was.

Jackson is a prop! Krause is the one that got the role players for Jordan to succeed.

I will give credit where credit is due though, Jackson has had great success and wears alot of rings BUT,


How many rings since he had Jordan or Shaq/Kobe? May want to get out the abacus, wait no need for that.

augustashark
01-11-2007, 04:44 PM
I know its sick. But the guy will have won 4 superbowls. Thats unheard of.

It is? Thats news to me, why don't you fill me in?

augustashark
01-11-2007, 04:51 PM
Great players make great coaches! Plain and simple thats the rule. Do you really think that if BB went to Arizona that they would have won 3 SB'S!!!!!!

Shanahan is a perfect example, joke at Oakland comes to Denver has great QB and RB what happens? He wins SB'S...Yea he was the reason!

Black@Gold Forever32
01-11-2007, 04:58 PM
Don't start with this BS! Jordan started winning because he found out that he could not do it all on his own. Losses in the playoffs (vs detriot) taught him how to win not Pill Jackson! Also to say that it was because of Jackson takes away from how great Jordan was.

Jackson is a prop! Krause is the one that got the role players for Jordan to succeed.

I will give credit where credit is due though, Jackson has had great success and wears alot of rings BUT,


How many rings since he had Jordan or Shaq/Kobe? May want to get out the abacus, wait no need for that.

I wasn't taking away from Jordan at all. Hey I grew up watching MJ and I know how great he was. The best basketball player ever in my mind. Just saying great players need great coaches. True Phil Jackson isn't as great as those 9 rings he wears says he is. But he is still a great basketball coach and to say he isn't is well just lame. Yea I'm sure the Bulls would have won six NBA titles with Doug Collins as HC.:toofunny:

tony hipchest
01-11-2007, 05:13 PM
someone turned me onto this (very long) article in regards to losing cowher, which i find poignant in this discussion:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/070109

...Coaches, especially football coaches, have never been a hotter commodity. Why?


Let me propose that the current national obsession with coaches reflects these themes:


• The illusion of control.


• The abdication by politicians and intellectuals of the father-figure role.


• The exaggeration of insider knowledge.


• The illusion of special motivational ability.


• The winner-take-all of modern economics.


• The Walter Mitty daydream.

Obviously some coaches are better than others – I'd certainly rather be coached by Pete Carroll than Nick Saban. (More on Saban below.) But as sports become ever-more important and ever-more analyzed, there seems an increasing tendency to want to believe that everything on the field happens for a reason. The ball didn't just bounce into some guy's hands, good coaching put the guy into the right position. The receiver didn't just run fast and get open, hours of round-the-clock study enabled the coach to determine precisely what pass pattern to call. It wasn't that the Colts played well Saturday while the Chiefs had an off day, this happened because Tony Dungy did an astonishingly good job of preparing his team using subtle psychological tools plus mega-brilliant game planning, while Herman Edwards did a poor job of preparing his team. Actually, Dungy and Edwards probably both did pretty much the same things all week before that game – Indianapolis just has better players than Kansas City. But we don't want to believe that, we want to believe the coach is in near-total control of events and outcomes. The explosion in conspiracy-theory thinking, in books and movies supposing there are secret agencies and master plans controlling our lives, spills over into sports in the sense that we want to believe Team A didn't win mainly because it's better than Team B, it won because someone was in control of the entire event. That someone has to be the coach. The phrase "everything happens for a reason" has taken on resonance in popular culture, and not only in religious circles. We don't want to believe luck and coincidence are major factors in our lives. We want to believe someone is in control. Project this thinking onto sports and the importance of the head coach inflates...
with this being said (and the image of the coach as the face of an organization) it helps explain why a team like the steelers are loved by the masses, and the patriots and their classless coach are hated by many. it has nothing to do with jealousy or envy. :chuckle: (but, whatever helps people sleep)

Black@Gold Forever32
01-11-2007, 05:18 PM
Great players make great coaches! Plain and simple thats the rule. Do you really think that if BB went to Arizona that they would have won 3 SB'S!!!!!!

Shanahan is a perfect example, joke at Oakland comes to Denver has great QB and RB what happens? He wins SB'S...Yea he was the reason!

Denver 0-4 in Super Bowls without Mike Shanahan and 2-0 with him.

John Elway 0-3 without Mike and 2-0 with him.

Ok do I think Shanahan was over-rated when many said he was a genius when he won two Super Bowls. Yes I do but he is still a great football coach.

tony hipchest
01-11-2007, 05:24 PM
Denver 0-4 in Super Bowls without Mike Shanahan and 2-0 with him.

John Elway 0-3 without Mike and 2-0 with him.

Ok do I think Shanahan was over-rated when many said he was a genius when he won two Super Bowls. Yes I do but he is still a great football coach.terell davis was the missing link, not shanahan. don shula proved he could win sb's with a running game and wouldve won many more with a (6th round pick) back like TD to pair with elway.

dan reeves isnt exactly a chump.

-note the coincidence of lucking out with great 6th round picks.

is it really a coincidence?

steelers lucked out with willie parker when other teams are spending top 5 picks on c. williams and c. benson. bears lucked out landing cast off t. jones and barely recognized it.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-11-2007, 05:30 PM
terell davis was the missing link, not shanahan. don shula proved he could win sb's with a running game and wouldve won many more with a (6th round pick) back like TD to pair with elway.

dan reeves isnt exactly a chump.

-note the coincidence of lucking out with great 6th round picks.

is it really a coincidence?

steelers lucked out with willie parker when other teams are spending top 5 picks on c. williams and c. benson. bears lucked out landing cast off t. jones and barely recognized it.

I agree Terell Davis was the missing link. He was a great RB. But look at the system Shanahan put in place in Denver also. Alot of RB's have had success. Ok not every RB in Denver has had the success TD did. But still the Broncos have had how many 1,000 yard rushers since Mike has been the coach?.

I should note I can't stand Mike Shanahan but I do think he is a great football coach. Not the so called genius many where claiming after his two Super Bowl titles.

Sorry the thread got off-topic.

Big D
01-11-2007, 05:34 PM
It is? Thats news to me, why don't you fill me in?

Sure will, I was saying if tom brady wins this years super bowl.

tony hipchest
01-11-2007, 05:50 PM
I agree Terell Davis was the missing link. He was a great RB. But look at the system Shanahan put in place in Denver also. Alot of RB's have had success. Ok not every RB in Denver has had the success TD did. But still the Broncos have had how many 1,000 yard rushers since Mike has been the coach?.
.how many of those 1000, yd backs were 2000 yd backs?

hall of famer shannon sharpe and boarder line hall of famer rod smith, paired with TD and john elway would make just about any coach look like an offensive genius.

b. switzer wasnt a great coach just cause he had t. aikman, e. smith, m. irvin, and j. novachek, just like jimmy johnson wasnt a great coach with marino alone.

sumo
01-11-2007, 05:57 PM
Great players make great coaches! Plain and simple thats the rule. Do you really think that if BB went to Arizona that they would have won 3 SB'S!!!!!!

Shanahan is a perfect example, joke at Oakland comes to Denver has great QB and RB what happens? He wins SB'S...Yea he was the reason!

back in the mid 90s - there was an interview on ESPN with Jimmy Johnson HC Dolphins and Barry Switzer HC Cowboys - they were getting ready to play each other that weekend and ESPN is interviewing them together since it's the first time Johnson is playing the CBoys since leaving - ESPN dude says - "What's your prediction for the game this weekend?" Barry Switzer says - "Well - I should win because I got the better players.." Even Switzer who holds the award for biggest tool of all time to ever coach in the NFL recognizes the obvious..

Black@Gold Forever32
01-11-2007, 06:01 PM
how many of those 1000, yd backs were 2000 yd backs?

hall of famer shannon sharpe and boarder line hall of famer rod smith, paired with TD and john elway would make just about any coach look like an offensive genius.

b. switzer wasnt a great coach just cause he had t. aikman, e. smith, m. irvin, and j. novachek, just like jimmy johnson wasnt a great coach with marino alone.

I agree with you T. Davis was the missing link which I stated. I also said the other Broncos RB's didn't have the success that TD did. But still I think Shanahan deserves some credit for the Broncos success and was a factor in that team winning. The Broncos 0-4 in the Super Bowl before Mike.

Plus I said I didn't think he was the so called genius that many thought he was. But he is a great coach.

HometownGal
01-11-2007, 06:24 PM
I know its sick. But the guy will have won 4 superbowls. Thats unheard of.

Ever hear of a guy named Terry Bradshaw? :wink02:

tony hipchest
01-11-2007, 07:13 PM
Plus I said I didn't think he was the so called genius that many thought he was. But he is a great coach.nor did i say you did. you didnt say billick was a genius either. that doesnt mean they havent been improperly tagged with that label. just like belichick. jocks coach football, not geniuses.

hardwork
01-12-2007, 12:26 AM
Ever hear of a guy named Terry Bradshaw? :wink02:

Well, I know Tom Brady's work and Terry Bradshaw was no Tom Brady.

MACH1
01-12-2007, 12:39 AM
Ever hear of a guy named Terry Bradshaw? :wink02:

Or a guy named Joe Montana.


Brady couldn't hold Bradshaw's jock.

hardwork
01-12-2007, 12:52 AM
The greatest coach in the history of professional sports is Red Auerbach. The greatest accomplishment by a professional athlete is Bill Russell's 11 NBA Championships.

How much do Bill Belichick and Tom Brady have of Red Auerbach and Bill Russell in them? Time will tell.



Bill Russell

"And, people always say you need to know how to win. But that's not enough if you want to keep winning. You also have to know why you win. Red Auerbach always knew that, ..."


Statement from K.C. Jones

"Although I can't give you a clear definition, that thing called Celtics Pride does exist. If I tried to express it in a few words, I think it would sound corny. It's much easier for me to tell you who created Celtics Pride. Like the creation of a life it took two people - Red Auerbach and Bill Russell."

augustashark
01-12-2007, 02:19 AM
Ever hear of a guy named Terry Bradshaw? :wink02:

Thanks HTG, I just thought that he would remember before he posted again. Also lets not forget old Joey M.

HometownGal
01-12-2007, 06:49 AM
Well, I know Tom Brady's work and Terry Bradshaw was no Tom Brady.

Well hw - considering that Bradshaw won those 4 rings back in the day when football was actually a hard-hitting physical game and not a pussified version of flag football, I'd say Tom Brady was no Terry Bradshaw. You never saw Bradshaw whine when someone came within 5 feet of him......or his shoe. :flap: :wink02:

Big D
01-12-2007, 08:32 AM
:iagree:

fansince'76
01-12-2007, 11:21 AM
Well, I know Tom Brady's work and Terry Bradshaw was no Tom Brady.

Agreed - Bradshaw won SBs by throwing TD passes, not by having his PK bail him out....

Elvis
01-13-2007, 04:50 PM
Well hw - considering that Bradshaw won those 4 rings back in the day when football was actually a hard-hitting physical game and not a pussified version of flag football, I'd say Tom Brady was no Terry Bradshaw. You never saw Bradshaw whine when someone came within 5 feet of him......or his shoe. :flap: :wink02:
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