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View Full Version : A great point.


Big D
01-17-2007, 10:46 AM
I was listening to fox sports radio last night. George sedano was talking about bill cowher and his retirement. What he went onto say is that he thinks that the browns will pursue Cowher next year. He said that even though cowhers contract will expire after next season he still owes the steelers one more year. I didnt know this but if a player were to retire with one more year on his contract even if he decides he wants to come back two years later the team still owns his rights. So why should nfl coaches be any different?

Dook
01-17-2007, 11:09 AM
As far as players go, that's not true.

Once a players contract expires he's a free agent.

Even as an RFA the team doesn't have exclusive rights to a player they simply have the opportunity to get reimbursement (1st and 3rd round draft pick, just a 1st, or 3rd round) and match another team's offer.

Big D
01-17-2007, 11:10 AM
As far as players go, that's not true.

Once a players contract expires he's a free agent.

Even as an RFA the team doesn't have exclusive rights to a player they simply have the opportunity to get reimbursement (1st and 3rd round draft pick, just a 1st, or 3rd round) and match another team's offer.

well, sedano stated thats actually not the case. He said once a player retires the team owns the players rights.

Dook
01-17-2007, 11:13 AM
If a player retires with years still remaining on their contract then yes, that is true.

It really depends on how the contract was written, for five years or from a time span 2001 to 2006.

Big D
01-17-2007, 11:15 AM
If a player retires with years still remaining on their contract then yes, that is true.

That's why Bill Cowher is under contract for next year. After that he's free.

i'm not trying to argue with you dook. But he even used barry sanders as an example.

SteelerMurf
01-17-2007, 11:43 AM
Technically Cowher did not retire, he resigned.

Big D
01-17-2007, 11:45 AM
here is a conspiracy way of thinking . What if Snyder calls up cowher. Says hey bill retire for a year. And when you come back i'll give you 10-15 million a year to come coach my team.

Indy_Steelers
01-17-2007, 11:58 AM
Technically Cowher did not retire, he resigned.

What he said.:iagree:

stlrtruck
01-17-2007, 12:17 PM
I believe it was outlined that the only way the Steelers would receive any compensation for Cowher coaching for another team is if he did so within the next year. After this next year, he is free to come back and coach anywhere. The Steelers wouldn't have the rights to ask for reimbursement (according to the league - but what the heck do they know!)

Atlanta Dan
01-17-2007, 12:44 PM
No shock here - just another example of how the players have a more difficult time getting out of NFL contracts than the coaches do. Nobody sticks it to pro athletes better than the NFL.

Cowher is free as a bird after 2007.

stlrtruck
01-17-2007, 12:53 PM
No shock here - just another example of how the players have a more difficult time getting out of NFL contracts than the coaches do. Nobody sticks it to pro athletes better than the NFL.

Cowher is free as a bird after 2007.

All of a sudden I can hear Lynyrd Skynyrd tuning up in the background!

Dook
01-17-2007, 01:20 PM
No shock here - just another example of how the players have a more difficult time getting out of NFL contracts than the coaches do. Nobody sticks it to pro athletes better than the NFL.

Cowher is free as a bird after 2007.

Are you serious?

Players have no difficulty whatsoever in getting out of NFL contracts, they can quit at any time and only have to pay back the signing bonus for the years they didn't play.

They also get paid very well when they underperform, sit on the bench, or just run in and kick a ball a few times a game.

They also have the best job injury plan there is.

Atlanta Dan
01-17-2007, 01:47 PM
Are you serious?

Players have no difficulty whatsoever in getting out of NFL contracts, they can quit at any time and only have to pay back the signing bonus for the years they didn't play.

They also get paid very well when they underperform, sit on the bench, or just run in and kick a ball a few times a game.

They also have the best job injury plan there is.

As opposed to being forced to pay back salaries they are not paid for future years in which they do not play? I apologize for not being aware of any pro sport which has that requirement.

Two more questions -

Question #1 - In which pro sport are players most likely to have their careers terminated or shortened by injury?

Question #2 - In which pro sport are there no guaranteed contracts?

Finally, as far as the best job injury plan there is, Mike Webster's family might have a different view on how generous the NFL and NFLPA are in doling out those job injury benefits, assuming the player does not have the cash to go through a federal district court trial and subsequent appeal to secure those benefits.

Dook
01-17-2007, 02:30 PM
So what there are no guaranteed contracts. If any player doesn't like it they don't have to sign it.

Mike Webster got paid very well while in the NFL but he blew it all away on bad business investments. For some reason his family never complained to the NFL until the money was gone.

Webster's family got an additional $600,000 from the NFL and that's still not enough for them. They are suing for $1.1m more even though Mike Webster had a family history of mental illness. And I'm sure his steroid use didn't help his health.

What job pays you $600,000 if you leave it and go crazy 20 years later?

Big D
01-17-2007, 02:44 PM
So what there are no guaranteed contracts. If any player doesn't like it they don't have to sign it.

Mike Webster got paid very well while in the NFL but he blew it all away on bad business investments. For some reason his family never complained to the NFL until the money was gone.

Webster's family got an additional $600,000 from the NFL and that's still not enough for them. They are suing for $1.1m more even though Mike Webster had a family history of mental illness. And I'm sure his steroid use didn't help his health.

What job pays you $600,000 if you leave it and go crazy 20 years later?

well dook, If a player doesnt sign a guaranteed contract he wouldnt get a contract.

Atlanta Dan
01-17-2007, 03:12 PM
So what there are no guaranteed contracts. If any player doesn't like it they don't have to sign it.

Mike Webster got paid very well while in the NFL but he blew it all away on bad business investments. For some reason his family never complained to the NFL until the money was gone.

Webster's family got an additional $600,000 from the NFL and that's still not enough for them. They are suing for $1.1m more even though Mike Webster had a family history of mental illness. And I'm sure his steroid use didn't help his health.

What job pays you $600,000 if you leave it and go crazy 20 years later?

I am not claiming playing in the NFL is the equivalent of digging ditches - I am claiming the NFL takes a more hard nosed approach to labor relations than other pro sports. That approach may be a big reason the NFL is so profitable, but that is its business model.

With regard to contract practices, you are absolutely right - if a football player does not like the NFL's contract structure he can go to the CFL and play football there - but as far as playing in the NFL, forget it.

With regard to Mike Webster's brain damage (or as you so eloquently put it, "going crazy"), there is no indication that had anything to do with alleged steroid use; it was due to repeated blows to the head sustained during the performance of his day job as a center in the NFL.

If you want to read what a federal appeals court thinks about what a generous employer the NFL is with regard to payments of disability benefits and what caused Webster's dementia, here is the link to the decison by the Fourth Circuit that affirmed the U.S. District Court ruling in favor of Webster's estate and against the NFL:

http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion.pdf/052386.U.pdf

steel#1
01-18-2007, 12:41 PM
Everyone knows, or should know, that Webster got a raw deal. However, at that time in the NFL concussions were routinely minimized. Nothing was intentially done to harm him except ignorance of concussions. Since then the Steelers have been the front runner in concussion research(hmm, I wonder if Websters problems could have had something to do with that). Like everything the NFL is a bussiness out to make money. Some players make out and others get the shaft. Look at Staley, he made 1.5 million last year as a side-line sweatsuit model. I suspect that as much as the league has been willing to shaft the players, the agents probably have as well. Nowdays the players have to be smart as well as talented in order to get ahead and protect themselves.

I suspect that if Carolina has another bad year there may be a perfect opening in Carolina for Cowher that's close to home. I also suspect that the Giants coach's 1 year extension, if there is no improvement would rapidly equall a Coughlin exodus with a Cowher entrance. Especially if Manning doesn't improve they might want someone who helped turn Ben into a winning QB. I just can't see Cowher going to far from home though I suspect millions could make for a much easier commute.

Haiku_Dirtt
01-18-2007, 01:00 PM
No shock here - just another example of how the players have a more difficult time getting out of NFL contracts than the coaches do. Nobody sticks it to pro athletes better than the NFL.

Cowher is free as a bird after 2007.

Perhaps unfair to the players. But who has the best product in all of sports. Guarantees are tricky little buggas. They seem to go hand in hand with disincentive.

This is the minimum salary for NFL players through the fourth year.

R $225,000
1 $300,000
2 $375,000
3 $450,000

Great work if you can get. I wish I was good enough to make a cool 1/4 million after one year of service playing football.

Preacher
01-18-2007, 01:05 PM
I guess that is one reason why I like professional rugby...

They all have day-jobs, and play on the side. Maybe if the NFL went back to that, well, the talent level would go down, but I will tell you this much, the heart, love, and classyness of the game would rocket.

I know, we can't put the genie back into the bottle. And with TV revenues, the owners make millions, if they do it right.

Oh for a better time... when both ownership and players did it for the love of the game, and not for a business.

Atlanta Dan
01-18-2007, 01:10 PM
Perhaps unfair to the players. But who has the best product in all of sports. Guarantees are tricky little buggas. They seem to go hand in hand with disincentive.

This is the minimum salary for NFL players through the fourth year.

R $225,000
1 $300,000
2 $375,000
3 $450,000

Great work if you can get. I wish I was good enough to make a cool 1/4 million after one year of service playing football.

As stated in my subsequent post in this thread, I am in complete agreement with everything you say.

I am not comparing life in the NFL to working for Wal-Mart but to how NFL players do as compared to other pro athletes. All pay verrrrry well, but the NBA and MLB both pay better and provide guaranteed contracts.

Atlanta Dan
01-18-2007, 01:13 PM
I guess that is one reason why I like professional rugby...

They all have day-jobs, and play on the side. Maybe if the NFL went back to that, well, the talent level would go down, but I will tell you this much, the heart, love, and classyness of the game would rocket.

I know, we can't put the genie back into the bottle. And with TV revenues, the owners make millions, if they do it right.

Oh for a better time... when both ownership and players did it for the love of the game, and not for a business.

I think it has always been a business - it just pays both owners and players better now.

Players used to work in the offseason not because they wanted to be productive members of the community but because they needed to pay the bills.