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CaliforniaChris
01-24-2007, 04:02 PM
It should be no surprise the Rooneys were going to hire whichever candidate agreed to be cheapest. It's no knock on Mike Tomlin, the Rooneys do have a history of making cheapness the priority in everything they do regarding the Steelers.

All the way back before player salary limits, the Rooneys were the cheapest. After that, this was the only brass who kept Kordell & Mike Tomzack for years because they were cheapest. And I remember the Rooney family had 30 years of sellouts at Three Rivers stadium, yet pocketed the money instead of making any needed improvements to that former stadium's parking etc. Lastly the Rooneys refused to pay market value for Cowher. Cowher is indicated to have wanted market value, which would be Mike Holgram's $8 mil salary, & the Rooneys refused to pay market value. Based on the Rooney's history of cheapness being a priority in every way, is there any wonder the Rooneys might have agreed to now choose whichever candidate agreed to the cheapest salary?

It should be noted Mike Tomlin's price to the Rooneys is only $2.5 million per year. Cowher was reportedly being paid $4 mil. Reports are the Rooneys might have agreed to bump Cowher's pay to around $6.5 mil -still less than Holgram's $8 mil. But the Rooneys even found a way to even pocket some money from a head coach's salary! Because although they'll have to pay this last year of Bill's contract, for then the duration of Tomlin's contract the Rooneys only pay $2.5 mil per year instead of Cowher's current salary.

fansince'76
01-24-2007, 04:07 PM
Cowher is indicated to have wanted market value, which would be Mike Holgram's $8 mil salary, & the Rooneys refused to pay market value.

And Paul Allen is one of the top 10 richest men in the world with money to burn, while Dan Rooney is not.

Big D
01-24-2007, 04:09 PM
I disagree that the rooneys are cheap. I think they are buisnessmen that make the best buisness decisions. You bring up three rivers, funny how we have a brand new state of the art stadium now. I think in the 90's we lost some great players because we were lacking some revenue.

fansince'76
01-24-2007, 04:15 PM
I think in the 90's we lost some great players because we were lacking some revenue.

Agreed - the early years of Plan B and the salary cap were quite painful for us.

sumo
01-24-2007, 04:18 PM
the margins with some NFL teams (not the NFL org. itself) are thinner than most people think - a few teams in the last 20 years have actually come close to bankruptcy (Modell) - I personally think the league should be diverting more money to taking care of guys that sacrificed their health and quality of life in order to play football instead of always looking for ways to increase revenue in order to increase salaries for existing players/coaches...

CaliforniaChris
01-24-2007, 04:55 PM
Big D mentioned we have a new stadium but didnt mention the fact that taxpayers paid for most of it. Taxpayers get talked into paying for much of new stadiums everywhere. In the case of the Steelers new stadium, taxpayers paid for most of it: Allegheny County taxpayers paid approx $160 mil of the $280 mil for Heinz Field (per Pgh TribuneReview). I won't expect other owners of NFL teams to get away with paying only that dollar amount for a new NFL stadium to be built. And other owners didnt have the luxury of 30 years of sellouts to sock away cash instead of paying for significant improvements.

Big D
01-24-2007, 05:04 PM
Big D mentioned we have a new stadium but didnt mention the fact that taxpayers paid for most of it. Taxpayers get talked into paying for much of new stadiums everywhere. In the case of the Steelers new stadium, taxpayers paid for most of it: Allegheny County taxpayers paid approx $160 mil of the $280 mil for Heinz Field (per Pgh TribuneReview). I won't expect other owners of NFL teams to get away with paying only that dollar amount for a new NFL stadium to be built. And other owners didnt have the luxury of 30 years of sellouts to sock away cash instead of paying for significant improvements.

yeah but what about all the stadium maintence they had to invest in. The rooneys still had to front 120 million for the stadium. There is alot that goes into being an nfl owner. If you want to see a cheap owner look at the cardinals,bills and bengals

HometownGal
01-24-2007, 05:15 PM
It should be noted Mike Tomlin's price to the Rooneys is only $2.5 million per year.

Considering that he is a first-year HC, I think that's a very fair price and obviously Tomlin agreed.

Big D
01-24-2007, 05:21 PM
Considering that he is a first-year HC, I think that's a very fair price and obviously Tomlin agreed.

I couldnt agree with you more. 2.5 million dollars for a 34 year old head coach. I would say thats fair. I'm sure if tomlin is succesfull he will get a raise in two years.

tony hipchest
01-24-2007, 05:47 PM
I couldnt agree with you more. 2.5 million dollars for a 34 year old head coach. I would say thats fair. I'm sure if tomlin is succesfull he will get a raise in two years.that was a very fair price and it almost blew my mind it was above 2 mil. lovie smith has been on a 1.35 mil. deal and mike tice was a little below that. of course 4 years from now, if tomlin is successful, the rooneys will have him locked in at 2.5 when new coaches are regularly making about double that.

stillers4me
01-24-2007, 06:27 PM
Honestly, I just can't argue with their methods........The Steelers are one of the most succesful franchises in the country. 5 Lombardi trophies, and more likely in the near future tells me that they are doing something right because they certainly didn't "buy" a single one of them!!! They don't "buy" coaches and they don't "buy" players like other teams do. They have the uncanny ablity to find coaches and players that everybody else overlooks and turns them into some of the most sought-after people in the league. Willie Parker is prime example of that..... Bill Cowher anyone???? And how many of you didn't say "OMG, we're doomed!!" when an unknown, third string quarterback named Ben Roethlisberger stepped on the field the first time????

The Steelers may not be flashy.........but they don't need to be. I don't want them to be.

83-Steelers-43
01-24-2007, 06:29 PM
Another Rooney is cheap rant. 2.5 is the starting price. It's not as if this guy has a proven past as a HC.

As for Cowher, he's gone. Yes, we cried, we debated on throwing ourselves off the Clemente bridge, but he's gone (complete sarcasm).

It's now Tomlin.

If you want big spenders, I suggest calling up the Washington Redskins front office and asking for a season ticket package.

RoethlisBURGHer
01-24-2007, 06:40 PM
I definatly wouldn't say the Rooneys are cheap.

They fronted a lot of money to build Heinz Field...how much did the University of Pittsburgh put up for it?I am sure less than the Rooneys,and the school probally got thier money back through taxes.

Mike Tomlin is a new HC,and $2.5M is the going rate for a HC with no experience.They didn't lowball,the payed fair-market value.

Cowher didn't resign because of the money,he left because his heart wasn't in it.You could tell when he coached,he didn't have the same fire he had the year before.

If you want huge spenders,go root for the Redskins.Look where all the spending has gotten him,one trip to the playoffs (and it was one-and-done).

tony hipchest
01-24-2007, 06:54 PM
Cowher didn't resign because of the money,he left because his heart wasn't in it.You could tell when he coached,he didn't have the same fire he had the year before.
it was all about the money. otherwise what happened to suddenly put out that fire, that didnt put it out in year 11, 12, 13, or 14. was it that he won a superbowl? no. every coach wants to do that and once they do, they want a taste of more. he knew he was a lame duck coach going into the 2nd to last year of his contract. the writing was on the wall following the negotiation breakdown last summer.

if his heart wasnt in it, or if he lacked fire for coaching, we wouldnt see him returning in a year or 2. but we will. he resigned, not retired.

BOXCAR JOEY
01-24-2007, 07:07 PM
Ok the rooneys are quick to spend the money but they are quick to save the money anyway they can. I know that when certian players ask for a crazy amount of money for a salary Cough Cough* randle el Cough COUGH* they say it was great knowing you, have a nice life. They pay for what they get and they get talent that the coaching staff develops into some f the best players the world will ever know. But atleast we all can agree that they aren't hiring the criminal element like some teams who, will remain nameless and ringless.

Suitanim
01-24-2007, 07:11 PM
Jesus.

Grimm was all but the successor, but the Steelers decided to do what they did with Cowher, and bring in the dark horse outsider with the intentions of re-energizing the franchise, exactly as they did when they hired a relatively unknown Bill Cowher 15 years ago.

Money? 2.5 was just about what Bill was making. 2.5 mil ain't cheap. Grimm wouldn't have gotten a penny more, and I'm sure Ken Whisenhunt is making about the same in Arizona, you know, the franchise where coaching careers go to die.

fansince'76
01-24-2007, 07:13 PM
....I'm sure Ken Whisenhunt is making about the same in Arizona, you know, the franchise where coaching careers go to die.

I thought that was Oakland. :sofunny:

Suitanim
01-24-2007, 07:21 PM
I thought that was Oakland. :sofunny:

At this point, the only reasonable and sane person who should be considering caching the Raiders is the towel boy, and he should demand 18 million a year. Crazy old Al might actually pay it...

Hammer67
01-24-2007, 08:28 PM
Good points Suit...and people can bitch about the Rooney's all they want but it falls on deaf ears here. They are the owners of the team with the best record in the NFL during the last 15 years and are a year removed from a SB victory. I wouldn't call them cheap...I would call them smart.

Would we rather have Dan Snyder and his unlimited funds?

:dang:

fansince'76
01-24-2007, 08:45 PM
Good points Suit...and people can bitch about the Rooney's all they want but it falls on deaf ears here....Would we rather have Dan Snyder and his unlimited funds?

In a word, NO!

Florida_Steelers_Fan
01-24-2007, 09:33 PM
i would rather have an owner like the steelers than 90% of the other owners out there. he's frugal, but not cheap. the steelers just gave out a ton of contracts over the last couple years. mr. rooney promised that when the new stadium opened he would shell out the cash...and he has.

fansince'76
01-24-2007, 09:34 PM
i would rather have an owner like the steelers than 90% of the other owners out there. he's frugal, but not cheap. the steelers just gave out a ton of contracts over the last couple years. mr. rooney promised that when the new stadium opened he would shell out the cash...and he has.

Yep, we have nowhere near the player attrition rate we had 10-12 years ago. Great point.

rags1336
01-24-2007, 09:36 PM
The Rooneys are businessmen. Businesmen are in business to make a profit. You may call them cheap now but what would you call them if they lavishly overspent their money had to declare bankrupcy and be forced to sell the team to somone from LA and the team moves? They Rooneys are thrifty for a reason.

Stlrs4Life
01-24-2007, 09:56 PM
Considering that he is a first-year HC, I think that's a very fair price and obviously Tomlin agreed.



Exactly HTG. It is a business. And if they are so cheap, I hope it continues, cause obviously it is working.

Stlrs4Life
01-24-2007, 09:57 PM
It should be no surprise the Rooneys were going to hire whichever candidate agreed to be cheapest. It's no knock on Mike Tomlin, the Rooneys do have a history of making cheapness the priority in everything they do regarding the Steelers.

All the way back before player salary limits, the Rooneys were the cheapest. After that, this was the only brass who kept Kordell & Mike Tomzack for years because they were cheapest. And I remember the Rooney family had 30 years of sellouts at Three Rivers stadium, yet pocketed the money instead of making any needed improvements to that former stadium's parking etc. Lastly the Rooneys refused to pay market value for Cowher. Cowher is indicated to have wanted market value, which would be Mike Holgram's $8 mil salary, & the Rooneys refused to pay market value. Based on the Rooney's history of cheapness being a priority in every way, is there any wonder the Rooneys might have agreed to now choose whichever candidate agreed to the cheapest salary?

It should be noted Mike Tomlin's price to the Rooneys is only $2.5 million per year. Cowher was reportedly being paid $4 mil. Reports are the Rooneys might have agreed to bump Cowher's pay to around $6.5 mil -still less than Holgram's $8 mil. But the Rooneys even found a way to even pocket some money from a head coach's salary! Because although they'll have to pay this last year of Bill's contract, for then the duration of Tomlin's contract the Rooneys only pay $2.5 mil per year instead of Cowher's current salary.



Would you rather have Danny Snyder? Not me, he spends alot every year and wastes his money.

sumo
01-25-2007, 02:08 AM
that was a very fair price and it almost blew my mind it was above 2 mil. lovie smith has been on a 1.35 mil. deal and mike tice was a little below that. of course 4 years from now, if tomlin is successful, the rooneys will have him locked in at 2.5 when new coaches are regularly making about double that.

Mike Tice's first two years he only made 400k a year - why do you think the dude was selling his SB tickets on ebay every year?

SansWetware
01-25-2007, 02:16 AM
I do not believe money was an issue. If they truly believed Grimm was the guy for the job, they would not have let his asking for, say... 3 million (as an example) over Tomlin's 2.5 million stand in their way. Remember that while they intend to be frugal and wise in their spending they ultimately have to put the franchise first in all they do. Without a good team the general fanbase loses interest. The team then goes broke.

This team is more entangled with it's city than any other (perhaps Green Bay could claim to be it's equal in this regard). It is the pride of the town. I have never had the fortune to live there, but I have many friends who have. Their eyes widen with esteem when their beloved franchise is mentioned. The Rooney's would not be quite so calculating and sinister about things. Hard-nosed businessmen yes - but not like some nay-sayers proclaim.

The poster above me's sig quote says it all. Why have we ALWAYS been a crude, smash-mouth, hard-nosed team that wears it's opponent out and grinds them down into a pulp? Because that's is what it's fans can identify with. They can IDENTIFY with the Rooney's frugality, but never could they identify with them simply being "cheap jerks."

I really enjoy reading these threads and occasionally posting but I think "Rooney's priority cheapest in everything" is a tad bit inflammatory.

Steel Pit
01-25-2007, 05:03 AM
Big D mentioned we have a new stadium but didnt mention the fact that taxpayers paid for most of it. Taxpayers get talked into paying for much of new stadiums everywhere. In the case of the Steelers new stadium, taxpayers paid for most of it: Allegheny County taxpayers paid approx $160 mil of the $280 mil for Heinz Field (per Pgh TribuneReview). I won't expect other owners of NFL teams to get away with paying only that dollar amount for a new NFL stadium to be built. And other owners didnt have the luxury of 30 years of sellouts to sock away cash instead of paying for significant improvements.

Although the monetary gains from 30 years of sellouts would seem like a fortune to you and I, it amounts to peanuts in NFL dollars.

You show me an NFL Franchise that's forced to succeed on ticket revenues and I'll show you an NFL Franchise that's loaded on a Mayflower truck and headed to another city.

The new stadium was a necessity. The Steelers organization needed the luxury box proceeds that most NFL teams benefit from. These proceeds are used to pay the enormous signing bonuses.

As for the taxpayers shelling out 160 million dollars, I'll just say that the entire region is raking in tons of money from the Pittsburgh Steelers and their activities.

Buzz05
01-25-2007, 07:35 AM
Would you rather have Danny Snyder? Not me, he spends alot every year and wastes his money.

Agree 100%. Over paying for the hot to trot free agents dont always work out...Snyder goes for broke ever year on the player of the week guys who are available. The Rooneys spend wisely...thats prob. why the Rooney's are so respected all over the league while most people thing Snyder is a joke...

stlrtruck
01-25-2007, 07:45 AM
Why are we stuck on the Cowher's contract and the Rooney's paying him or any coach? This should no longer be an issue for us as fans. The Steelers and Cowher both had negotiations. It didn't work out, for whatever reason. Are we as fans truly that obsessed with the Rooney's and how they pay the coach? Shouldn't we be more worried about the players they draft and keep on the team? The Rooney's are keeping the key players and that's important...as for the coach, I don't care who it is, I'll support him and the team!

Tim
01-25-2007, 09:13 AM
And Paul Allen is one of the top 10 richest men in the world with money to burn, while Dan Rooney is not.

I haven't read through the other comments (yet), but this can't be repeated enough. Paul Allen is the Steinbrenner of the NFL, at least in terms of personal wealth.

You can't really compare any other NFL team to Seattle when talking about the coaching staff. The players are all under a cap, but the coaches are not. Allen could double Holmgren's salary and it wouldn't impact him in the slightest.

memphissteelergirl
01-25-2007, 09:35 AM
Honestly, I just can't argue with their methods........The Steelers are one of the most succesful franchises in the country. 5 Lombardi trophies, and more likely in the near future tells me that they are doing something right because they certainly didn't "buy" a single one of them!!! They don't "buy" coaches and they don't "buy" players like other teams do. They have the uncanny ablity to find coaches and players that everybody else overlooks and turns them into some of the most sought-after people in the league. Willie Parker is prime example of that..... Bill Cowher anyone???? And how many of you didn't say "OMG, we're doomed!!" when an unknown, third string quarterback named Ben Roethlisberger stepped on the field the first time????

The Steelers may not be flashy.........but they don't need to be. I don't want them to be.


*applause* Well said! I will take the Rooneys over a Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder any day!

Haiku_Dirtt
01-25-2007, 12:33 PM
Considering that he is a first-year HC, I think that's a very fair price and obviously Tomlin agreed.

Yeah...especially since Cowher turned down $6 million. There is a fine line between cheap and frugal and frugal and wise. An extra $4 million per year is hardly cheap.

fansince'76
01-25-2007, 12:52 PM
I haven't read through the other comments (yet), but this can't be repeated enough. Paul Allen is the Steinbrenner of the NFL, at least in terms of personal wealth.

You can't really compare any other NFL team to Seattle when talking about the coaching staff. The players are all under a cap, but the coaches are not. Allen could double Holmgren's salary and it wouldn't impact him in the slightest.

I agree. Hell, Allen could quadruple the Walrus' salary without cause to blink. It's also the main reason I am glad the NFL has instituted a hard salary cap and revenue sharing.

Livinginthe past
01-25-2007, 01:59 PM
I think its ridiculous to suggest that the owner of one of the 32 NFL franchises would be out of pocket if they had to pay their HC an extra $3/4million.

Lets start with the size of the player salary cap that has to be paid every year, this year the number was $102 million, next year it will be $109million.

Lets say, for arguments sake, that the Steelers maxed out the salary cap both last year (the SB winning year) and this year (the 8-8 year) - this means approximately $100 million was invested both years to achieve success on the football field.

Cowher is content in 2005 (SB win), Cowher is a malcontent in 2006 (8-8).

Now, there were other factors (Bens repeated injuries) at play this year, but I think alot of people believe Cowhers state of mind had a large impact on the performance of this years team.

Every year the Steelers are going to be investing in excess of $100 million in football talent, doesn't it make sense to give that investment the best possible chance to succeed?

Lets say Cowher wanted to be paid an extra $4million, to put him in line with other highly paid 'elite' coaches.

This 'pay increase' is equivalent to approximately 3.5% of this years salary cap.

And the 'small town' Rooneys' line doesnt really cut it either - if you can afford to fork out $109million+ annually from here on out - you can afford to pay an extra $4million to make sure the initial investment is a wise one.

NM

HeartofSteel
01-25-2007, 02:41 PM
Kind of new to posting here, but correct me if I'm wrong. The Rooneys didn't raise ticket prices with the 2006 season, right? Hasn't every other modern day franchise raised ticket prices after winning a Super Bowl? You would think a cheap owner with a season ticket waiting list half a mile long would take such an oppurtunity.

Stlrs4Life
01-25-2007, 08:40 PM
Kind of new to posting here, but correct me if I'm wrong. The Rooneys didn't raise ticket prices with the 2006 season, right? Hasn't every other modern day franchise raised ticket prices after winning a Super Bowl? You would think a cheap owner with a season ticket waiting list half a mile long would take such an oppurtunity.



Don't jinx me! LOL!

fansince'76
01-25-2007, 08:44 PM
And the 'small town' Rooneys' line doesnt really cut it either - if you can afford to fork out $109million+ annually from here on out - you can afford to pay an extra $4million to make sure the initial investment is a wise one.

The only problem I see with this line of thinking, LITP, is that the extra 4 million won't be enough - then it'll go up to an extra 6 million, an extra 8 million, etc. When does it stop? As has been mentioned previously, the Rooneys are indeed rich, but Snyder, Allen, Jones, and a host of others are a hell of alot richer.

tony hipchest
01-25-2007, 08:51 PM
I think its ridiculous to suggest that the owner of one of the 32 NFL franchises would be out of pocket if they had to pay their HC an extra $3/4million.

Lets start with the size of the player salary cap that has to be paid every year, this year the number was $102 million, next year it will be $109million.

Lets say, for arguments sake, that the Steelers maxed out the salary cap both last year (the SB winning year) and this year (the 8-8 year) - this means approximately $100 million was invested both years to achieve success on the football field.

Cowher is content in 2005 (SB win), Cowher is a malcontent in 2006 (8-8).

Now, there were other factors (Bens repeated injuries) at play this year, but I think alot of people believe Cowhers state of mind had a large impact on the performance of this years team.

Every year the Steelers are going to be investing in excess of $100 million in football talent, doesn't it make sense to give that investment the best possible chance to succeed?

Lets say Cowher wanted to be paid an extra $4million, to put him in line with other highly paid 'elite' coaches.

This 'pay increase' is equivalent to approximately 3.5% of this years salary cap.

And the 'small town' Rooneys' line doesnt really cut it either - if you can afford to fork out $109million+ annually from here on out - you can afford to pay an extra $4million to make sure the initial investment is a wise one.

NMist of all the rooneys are millionaires. the krafts, snyders, jonses, allens of the league are billionaires.

huge difference.

i guess the rooneys spending max to the cap to repeat but not overpaying for what they feel a coach should make, makes about as much sense as kraft overpaying for a coach, and not spending max to the cap to save a few extra million on a wr and kicker that helped the colts to the sb and kept the patriots out of it.

Livinginthe past
01-26-2007, 02:37 PM
The only problem I see with this line of thinking, LITP, is that the extra 4 million won't be enough - then it'll go up to an extra 6 million, an extra 8 million, etc. When does it stop? As has been mentioned previously, the Rooneys are indeed rich, but Snyder, Allen, Jones, and a host of others are a hell of alot richer.

Sure, I understand your thinking but the cap this year has jumped another 7 million - so the potential is there to spend that money on players, the same increase should be made available to a HC who brings all the different parts together and makes them a team.

As I say, I really dont think that the affluence of Snyder et al really comes into play when we are talking about $4,$5 or $6 Million and its not as if its a rookie coach with a big name, it was a potential HOF coach they lost out on.

NM

Donnie Iris
01-29-2007, 12:24 PM
It should be no surprise the Rooneys were going to hire whichever candidate agreed to be cheapest. It's no knock on Mike Tomlin, the Rooneys do have a history of making cheapness the priority in everything they do regarding the Steelers.

All the way back before player salary limits, the Rooneys were the cheapest. After that, this was the only brass who kept Kordell & Mike Tomzack for years because they were cheapest. And I remember the Rooney family had 30 years of sellouts at Three Rivers stadium, yet pocketed the money instead of making any needed improvements to that former stadium's parking etc. Lastly the Rooneys refused to pay market value for Cowher. Cowher is indicated to have wanted market value, which would be Mike Holgram's $8 mil salary, & the Rooneys refused to pay market value. Based on the Rooney's history of cheapness being a priority in every way, is there any wonder the Rooneys might have agreed to now choose whichever candidate agreed to the cheapest salary?

It should be noted Mike Tomlin's price to the Rooneys is only $2.5 million per year. Cowher was reportedly being paid $4 mil. Reports are the Rooneys might have agreed to bump Cowher's pay to around $6.5 mil -still less than Holgram's $8 mil. But the Rooneys even found a way to even pocket some money from a head coach's salary! Because although they'll have to pay this last year of Bill's contract, for then the duration of Tomlin's contract the Rooneys only pay $2.5 mil per year instead of Cowher's current salary.

:blah: