PDA

View Full Version : The Non Smack Version of Who Is the Best QB in the AFC-N


BengalBrian
02-08-2007, 02:29 PM
Ok.. Lets be real about this now.. I have to know how much of a percentage of this site really does believe which quarterback has a brighter future as an individual. Which quarterback has the better skillset. Which quarterback is better.. Period...

I wont include a Browns quarterback, because who the hell knows who it will be anyway...

Talking about how many times the quarterbacks have had sex is irrelevant in this thread.. Or how many girlfriends he gets.. This is for people who have actual facts.. About the player themselves. And their ability in FOOTBALLThat means you should just shut up Tony lol

fansince'76
02-08-2007, 02:58 PM
Carson has the better arm, but Ben doesn't have the fumbling problem when he gets hit. I don't think either is anywhere near Manning or Brady, and are prime examples of what I would like to see them both develop into. They both have plenty of room for improvement at this point, IMHO. At this point, I don't think either one is better than the other, honestly - Palmer has the better home run ball, but Ben is bigger, stronger, more mobile, and can make plays in a bigger variety of ways.

stlrtruck
02-08-2007, 03:04 PM
Bottom line, in the playoffs who did what to get his team through it. Yes I know last year Carson got hurt...but when he had to win games, what has Carson done compared to what Ben has done.

Carson has been in the league more and for some reason has not been able to pull his team out of the mediocre level of play. Granted his only one player but he's suppose to be the leader at this point.

Ben also has a Super Bowl in his resume. Regardless of the fact that he didn't have the best performance of a winning QB, he made the plays when they were needed.

Edge to Ben!!

tony hipchest
02-08-2007, 03:11 PM
ben is a leader and proven winner who is tough as nails. he can also punt, run, and tackle. ben won 13 games in his rookie season, yet carson cant win more than 11. all we hear about is carsons offensive weaponry, yet he managed 8 losses last season, when they were supposed to win a superbowl.

carson is 1 dimensional. he has an arm and can throw a nice spiral, but then again, so can a juggs machine. he will probably put up some nice numbers like vinnie testaverde, but ben can scramble, improvise and put up wins like a brett farve, john, elway, or troy aikman.

ben is still relatively new to the position, with alot to learn, and tons of upside. it doesnt get much better for carson.

augustashark
02-08-2007, 03:19 PM
Where the hell is the Charlie Fry button.........This is BS!!!!!!!!!

BengalBrian
02-08-2007, 03:21 PM
Where the hell is the Charlie Fry button.........This is BS!!!!!!!!!

You think he will be the starter all next year? I guess he is the best candidate at this point.. :)

BengalBrian
02-08-2007, 03:29 PM
I still think some of you mistake Ben winning the games he did for simply scoring more points than the defense allowed. And your defense has been a top 5 defense easy the past couple years. They are very consistent. This year was a telling year for Ben. He was asked for the first time in his short career to actually carry the team several times and make things happen. Carson has fallen short before but he is asked to do this constantly because our defense has major issues. Ben is a great game manager. But he is not a Pro Bowl caliber quarterback. Carson is. He's proven. Ben was only able to manage for a couple years, but then self destructed last year when he was needed to step it up. Was it the injury? We may never know. I personally just don't think he is near what Carson is. Carson is constantly watching leads he put up dwindle with poor defensive play or pulling out of a deficit for the same reason.

stlrtruck
02-08-2007, 04:00 PM
And Carson has 1 AFCN Championship. How many playoff wins? How many Super Bowls?

As Terry Bradshaw once said...when it really comes down to it, all that matters is the number of Super Bowls and right now Ben has 1 and Carson 0.

Borski
02-08-2007, 04:15 PM
No Charlie Fry?!

Preacher
02-08-2007, 04:18 PM
At this point...

STEVE MCNAIR. Hands down.

Palmer is too stationary as a QB... when teams catch on to blitzing schemes, or are able to manhandle the O line... Carson will get killed.

Ben has that problem this year, both because of the front line and because he wasn't mentally ready to play QB after his accident.. surgery.. etc.

In the end, Ben and Carson are about equal. What Carson can do with his arm, Ben can make up for by scrambling and making plays with his legs. It evens out in the end.

Right now... and until proven otherwise, Steve Mcnair has showing throughout the years that he is a very good QB. Unfortunately, many times he has shown it against us!

Mark my words... 10 years from now, we will be lamenting the retirement of one of the greatest rivalries NFL football has known... Ben vs. Carson. And I will promise that in the ends, the stats, etc, will not be decisive for either qb, neither will games won/lost.

However, Ben will have more SB rings. Why? Because the way the Bengals handle themselves, they do not have the ability to keep it together through the long haul. I do hope that changes. But until you all get a owner, FO, and coach that DEMANDS discipline on AND OFF the field, you will continue to have problems.

And that is my non-smack honest answer.

BengalBrian
02-08-2007, 04:40 PM
However, Ben will have more SB rings. Why? Because the way the Bengals handle themselves, they do not have the ability to keep it together through the long haul. I do hope that changes. But until you all get a owner, FO, and coach that DEMANDS discipline on AND OFF the field, you will continue to have problems.

And that is my non-smack honest answer.

Fair enough... But do you think the number of superbowl trophies a QB has makes them a better QB? I dont.. Now.. If Ben goes on to win 10 superbowls, chances are he is better than Carson.. But he will have to do much more than he is doing to do that.... Carson just needs a defense

Mosca
02-08-2007, 06:22 PM
I think that for 2 of his 3 seasons Roethlisberger has shown himself to be an excellent quarterback, with a good arm, toughness, and good game sense. It is just as unfair to rate him below Palmer solely on last season as it is to rate him ahead of Palmer based on SB trophies.

Honestly, it's too early in Ben's career to make the comparison. He hasn't matured into whatever type of talent he is going to be. You know I have a lot of respect for Carson Palmer. Palmer has developed into a quality player. Roethlisberger has the potential to develop into a player that may be as good or better.


Skillset, right now: Palmer.
Potential for development: Roethlisberger.
Proven value over career: NcNair.


If I needed to win one game tomorrow, and all the other players are the current Steelers (disregarding things like chemistry, learning plays, etc): Palmer.

If I wanted to win as many championships as possible over the next 10 years: Roethlisberger.

Tom

Preacher
02-09-2007, 12:22 AM
Fair enough... But do you think the number of superbowl trophies a QB has makes them a better QB? I dont.. Now.. If Ben goes on to win 10 superbowls, chances are he is better than Carson.. But he will have to do much more than he is doing to do that.... Carson just needs a defense

No, I don't think winning a SB is a mark of a better qb. However, it does reflect well on a QB. Especially if they win two or three. Sure, an ok QB can win one SB. But only very good QB's lead thier teams to two/three/four qbs.

Remember, there are plenty of teams that have very good offenses.. Defenses.. but they don't win the SB. It takes a good QB to go through the year, and win teh SB.

Look at Ben last year... he had a very good year. Sure, he didn't play well in teh SB... but HE got them to the SB.

stlrtruck
02-09-2007, 08:01 AM
BB you keep going back to this past year to develop your argument. I'm sorry but because a QB has one bad year, it doesn't make him a bad QB. Look at Roethlisberger's first 3 years. He was undefeated as a starter until the AFCCG. Yes he was only asked to control the game and not lose it. But isn't the sign of a good QB one that can manage the game and still bring home the W?

And isn't the objective of any off season to score more points than the defense gives up? So by Ben having success off the defense's success - isn't that just his job? Carson should be able to do the same thing but has he?

Livinginthe past
02-09-2007, 08:56 AM
Im going to vote Carson on this one.

I really liked Ben as the 2nd best QB in the NFL before the start of last season, but his career has taken a sharp nosedive as a result of many factors.

Having a 'game manger' is ok - as long as he able to reassert his teams authority if things fail to go according to plan - last year Ben failed pretty miserably to bring his team back into games that had reached 'plan B' stage.

Ben certainly has alot of good traits, but last year exposed alot of other problems that weren't an issue when the Steelers were going 15-1 on the back of him throwing 20 times a game - he tries to make too many plays instead of throwing the ball away for example.

These problems can be ironed out with experience, I think.

Carson took a step back last year, and again the effects of the injury shouldn't be ignored - for a fairly rigid pocket passer pocket security is everything - Carson will probably be alot happier and confident in the pocket this year.

McNair is still a decent QB but his star is fading, I dont think i've been as disappointed with a QB performance in the postseason as I was his this year against the Colts - he was anti-clutch.

Both the Bengals and Steelers should be happy with their choices at QB, they are both on course for successful careers.

NM

BengalBrian
02-09-2007, 09:10 AM
BB you keep going back to this past year to develop your argument. I'm sorry but because a QB has one bad year, it doesn't make him a bad QB. Look at Roethlisberger's first 3 years. He was undefeated as a starter until the AFCCG. Yes he was only asked to control the game and not lose it. But isn't the sign of a good QB one that can manage the game and still bring home the W?

And isn't the objective of any off season to score more points than the defense gives up? So by Ben having success off the defense's success - isn't that just his job? Carson should be able to do the same thing but has he?
Just keep in mind, I never said Ben was a bad quarterback.. Well.. I am sure I have in the smack section, but if you do your research, you will find I was a fan of Ben before he was a steeler and I have said plenty of times he is a good QB. BUT.. I just think Carson is better.. Carson cant do the same thing as Ben with the defense we have. Dont go comparing your defense to ours.. Not even close

Im going to vote Carson on this one.

I really liked Ben as the 2nd best QB in the NFL before the start of last season, but his career has taken a sharp nosedive as a result of many factors.

Having a 'game manger' is ok - as long as he able to reassert his teams authority if things fail to go according to plan - last year Ben failed pretty miserably to bring his team back into games that had reached 'plan B' stage.

Ben certainly has alot of good traits, but last year exposed alot of other problems that weren't an issue when the Steelers were going 15-1 on the back of him throwing 20 times a game - he tries to make too many plays instead of throwing the ball away for example.

These problems can be ironed out with experience, I think.

Carson took a step back last year, and again the effects of the injury shouldn't be ignored - for a fairly rigid pocket passer pocket security is everything - Carson will probably be alot happier and confident in the pocket this year.

McNair is still a decent QB but his star is fading, I dont think i've been as disappointed with a QB performance in the postseason as I was his this year against the Colts - he was anti-clutch.

Both the Bengals and Steelers should be happy with their choices at QB, they are both on course for successful careers.

NM
Great post.. And yes, they both took a step backwards this year, and they both have a lot more potential

BOXCAR JOEY
02-09-2007, 09:31 AM
Ok so im going back to big ben's game saving ankel tackle. How many NFL QB's would have even attempted to make an effort to stop a run. I can't name many. Most certainly palmer or mcnair wouldn't. They would be worrying about getting hurt and blow the game. Thats why Ben is the man.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-09-2007, 09:59 AM
I think that for 2 of his 3 seasons Roethlisberger has shown himself to be an excellent quarterback, with a good arm, toughness, and good game sense. It is just as unfair to rate him below Palmer solely on last season as it is to rate him ahead of Palmer based on SB trophies.

Honestly, it's too early in Ben's career to make the comparison. He hasn't matured into whatever type of talent he is going to be. You know I have a lot of respect for Carson Palmer. Palmer has developed into a quality player. Roethlisberger has the potential to develop into a player that may be as good or better.


Skillset, right now: Palmer.
Potential for development: Roethlisberger.
Proven value over career: NcNair.


If I needed to win one game tomorrow, and all the other players are the current Steelers (disregarding things like chemistry, learning plays, etc): Palmer.

If I wanted to win as many championships as possible over the next 10 years: Roethlisberger.

Tom

Excellent points Mosca...and that criteria is what I am Picking Ben on.....20 years from now..noone is going to look back and say...."Ben won "X" amount of playoffs and 'X' amount of superbowls..BUT Carson Palmer may have had more than a average career if he would have played for a better team.
It may not be fair..But the END result is what people will judge them by...and Ben will have the better career....If Carson wants to have a chance to be what he is capable of..he needs to say goodbye to Marvin Lewis and the Bengals...(and that is not smack...but reality)

BengalBrian
02-09-2007, 10:56 AM
Ok so im going back to big ben's game saving ankel tackle. How many NFL QB's would have even attempted to make an effort to stop a run. I can't name many. Most certainly palmer or mcnair wouldn't. They would be worrying about getting hurt and blow the game. Thats why Ben is the man.

I think any quarterback would try to make that play. What do you base this off of? I certainly do not think McNair is afraid of getting hurt if you know anything about his past

stlrtruck
02-09-2007, 01:48 PM
BB I'm not saying that you're talking about Ben being a bad QB. I understand the question. And I'm not comparing defenses either...I know the Steelers defense is better - much better (but that's a different thread) - but as a QB you're job is to take advantage of what your defense gives you - I don't remember Carson being able to do that. Yes he's put together some great drives but overall, he hasn't been that game winner that I've seen Ben be. For example - the playoff run 2 years ago - who was responsible for those deep throws? Ben.

So until Carson starts winning the games when they matter, I'll have to agree to disagree that Ben is the better QB.

Preacher
02-09-2007, 03:03 PM
Alright...

If this thread was last year... I would say Ben... Hands down
Right now... Carson.. but his lack of mobility scares me.

Future... I gotta say Ben. Be what it may, in this league, QB's need mobility, and teh ability to pass on the move. Ben has that. If he recovers to his pre-2006 form, hands down, it will be Ben.

Stillers#1
02-09-2007, 03:38 PM
Carson

BengalBrian
02-09-2007, 04:11 PM
I must admit I didn't even think Carson would get 5 votes here (4 really since I voted).. I can even accept some of you truly believe Ben is better. Without a doubt he can move better than Carson and shed tackles and escape sacks better. I have seen a lot mentioned so far to that effect. I guess we will all just have to see what the future brings before we all know the actual answer

Dynasty
02-09-2007, 04:57 PM
I say Ben, and I base it a lot on this. There is a difference between being a great quarterback and being a great passer. Ben has been a greatl eader for the Steelers, and he is also an excellent passer (except most of this year). Carson, while having an excelent arm, has not shown that he can lead a team as well as Ben or McNair. I do like McNair, but he is on the downturn of his career, so that hurts his stock... He also bombed in the playoffs in a lot of ways.

iloveben7
02-09-2007, 05:04 PM
I still think some of you mistake Ben winning the games he did for simply scoring more points than the defense allowed. And your defense has been a top 5 defense easy the past couple years. They are very consistent. This year was a telling year for Ben. He was asked for the first time in his short career to actually carry the team several times and make things happen. Carson has fallen short before but he is asked to do this constantly because our defense has major issues. Ben is a great game manager. But he is not a Pro Bowl caliber quarterback. Carson is. He's proven. Ben was only able to manage for a couple years, but then self destructed last year when he was needed to step it up. Was it the injury? We may never know. I personally just don't think he is near what Carson is. Carson is constantly watching leads he put up dwindle with poor defensive play or pulling out of a deficit for the same reason.
Yeah we all know that Ben didn't have the greastest year last year, but it was only his third year as a starter and I don't think Carson Palmer even started until after his third year. Also Ben is a fighter-he won't go down without playing his best. He also has the attitude of a winner and he doesn't put down his players and also takes the blame when the Steelers lose, even though it wasn't all his fault-we lose as a team.

iloveben7
02-09-2007, 05:11 PM
I's have to disagree about Palmer losing games because of his defense. If he was a good QB, he should be able to bring his team out of those bad situations.

BengalBrian
02-09-2007, 07:15 PM
Yeah we all know that Ben didn't have the greastest year last year, but it was only his third year as a starter and I don't think Carson Palmer even started until after his third year. Also Ben is a fighter-he won't go down without playing his best. He also has the attitude of a winner and he doesn't put down his players and also takes the blame when the Steelers lose, even though it wasn't all his fault-we lose as a team.
Carson sat on the bench his entire rookie season and took over in his 2nd year actually. You dont play in this league as a starter if you dont give it your best.. I am sure they both are giving it their best, and Carson has no issues with taking blame when deserved and doesnt put down his teammates either.. :shrug:

I's have to disagree about Palmer losing games because of his defense. If he was a good QB, he should be able to bring his team out of those bad situations.
He constantly does.. Hell.. Sometimes he gets us a large lead only to have the defense blow it (Chargers game).. We only lost 2 games this season by more than one score.. Carson is the reason we were in almost every game. Defense blew the Bucs game, the Falcons game, the first Ravens game, the Chargers game, and special teams blew the Steelers game and Broncos game (both games where Carson put us in position to win) A quarterback can only do so much. Its funny how some of you will defend our defense to bash Carson. Lets be serious here.. This is the Bengals defense we are talking about. Still my team.. Hello?

CantStop85
02-09-2007, 08:55 PM
Over the last 2 years, Carson has outperformed Ben in virtually every category but Super Bowl victories, but being as the Super Bowl is a team accomplishment and we are discussing individuals, my vote goes to Carson.

Preacher
02-09-2007, 08:59 PM
As of right now... I still gotta say McNair. I would trust him to get me to the SB before either of the other two.

But like I said before. When this is all over, the Ben/Carson rivarly will be legendary in football... let alone in the AFC North. We will be telling our grandkids about it.

Mosca
02-09-2007, 09:15 PM
We only lost 2 games this season by more than one score..


Most games in the NFL are decided by less than one score.

I don't think it means anything vis this discussion, I just thought you might find it interesting. I got the stat from a recent TMQ column discussing parity.

And something else; with football being almost the consummate team game among modern sports, the question becomes murkier. Give Palmer Hines Ward and two nobodies, and give Roethlisberger the Bengals guys; now who is best? If one guy plays behind a line that is a sieve, does that mean he isn't as good when all his throws are rushed?

You can't put them in an arena and let them fight it out like you could tennis players, or golfers. Really, who could say which is actually better? Let's be glad we aren't discussing Akili Smith and Kyle Orton!


Tom

tony hipchest
02-09-2007, 09:24 PM
Let's be glad we aren't discussing Akili Smith and Kyle Orton!
Tom

bunglefans think akili smith is better because he was drafted higher and had more college recognition despite k. ortons win/loss record as a rookie.

Stlrs4Life
02-09-2007, 09:44 PM
Carson has the better arm, but Ben doesn't have the fumbling problem when he gets hit. I don't think either is anywhere near Manning or Brady, and are prime examples of what I would like to see them both develop into. They both have plenty of room for improvement at this point, IMHO. At this point, I don't think either one is better than the other, honestly - Palmer has the better home run ball, but Ben is bigger, stronger, more mobile, and can make plays in a bigger variety of ways.


Couldn't of said it any better myself. All I know is, I'm happy with Ben R.

Stlrs4Life
02-09-2007, 09:48 PM
Ok.. Lets be real about this now.. I have to know how much of a percentage of this site really does believe which quarterback has a brighter future as an individual. Which quarterback has the better skillset. Which quarterback is better.. Period...

I wont include a Browns quarterback, because who the hell knows who it will be anyway...

Talking about how many times the quarterbacks have had sex is irrelevant in this thread.. Or how many girlfriends he gets.. This is for people who have actual facts.. About the player themselves. And their ability in FOOTBALLThat means you should just shut up Tony lol


Gee, what would you expect on a Steelers board? What kind of percentage do you think you would get on Cinybungles.com, or at Ratbirdsnest.com?

Black@Gold Forever32
02-09-2007, 10:21 PM
People can say all they want that Ben didn't have to carry the Steelers in his first two years. Thats true and I agree. But Ben still made plays when he had to and the Steelers don't even make the Super Bowl without Ben's play in the three play-off games before the Super Bowl. Just look Ben's playoff's performances were better then Peyton Manning's play-off performances this past play-offs. I'm not saying Ben is better then Peyton. Just saying Ben was huge for the Steelers in getting to the Super Bowl during the play-offs.

As for Carson Palmer he is one of the best QB's in the game. He has the skills and its not his fault the Bengals turd elements were big reasons why the Bengals didn't make the play-offs.

I say Carson is better right now but I think Ben has the potential to be better and one of the best QB's in the NFL. I thought that when Ben played in college and I'm sticking to that. Sorry Brian but I think both QB's are very good and its going to be fun watching both battle for years.

boLT fan
02-09-2007, 11:04 PM
Gotta go with Carson. I think if he was on the Steelers, they still would've won Superbowl XL.

tony hipchest
02-09-2007, 11:13 PM
Gotta go with Carson. I think if he was on the Steelers, they still would've won Superbowl XL.yeah me too. im sure charlie batch woulda filled in nicely as an injured carson sat on the bench.

how's carson done in his most recent games against the colts and broncos when he faced the most pressure in his career to make the playoffs?

*choke, choke*

loss-loss

Preacher
02-09-2007, 11:15 PM
Gotta go with Carson. I think if he was on the Steelers, they still would've won Superbowl XL.

Maybe... maybe not. Ben had two three specific plays, one went for a touchdown, one put them within a couple yards of the endzone, and one was a touchdown that were all made with his feet.

Could Carson have done that? Especially if he was having a bad day? That is the point here. Ben can beat you with his legs when he needs to. No, he isn't, nor do we want him to be another Michael Vick. But he has the ability to run around behind the line and keep the play alive. He has the abilit to run 6 yards for teh first down, which he did to seal the SB.

BengalBrian
02-10-2007, 02:31 AM
Most games in the NFL are decided by less than one score.

I don't think it means anything vis this discussion, I just thought you might find it interesting. I got the stat from a recent TMQ column discussing parity.

And something else; with football being almost the consummate team game among modern sports, the question becomes murkier. Give Palmer Hines Ward and two nobodies, and give Roethlisberger the Bengals guys; now who is best? If one guy plays behind a line that is a sieve, does that mean he isn't as good when all his throws are rushed?

You can't put them in an arena and let them fight it out like you could tennis players, or golfers. Really, who could say which is actually better? Let's be glad we aren't discussing Akili Smith and Kyle Orton!


Tom
All good points.. Great post

bunglefans think akili smith is better because he was drafted higher and had more college recognition despite k. ortons win/loss record as a rookie.
Lets try to keep the smack in smack tony.. :rules:

Gee, what would you expect on a Steelers board? What kind of percentage do you think you would get on Cinybungles.com, or at Ratbirdsnest.com?
what is a cinybungle?

Sorry Brian but I think both QB's are very good and its going to be fun watching both battle for years.
No apology needed.. I agree

yeah me too. im sure charlie batch woulda filled in nicely as an injured carson sat on the bench.

how's carson done in his most recent games against the colts and broncos when he faced the most pressure in his career to make the playoffs?

*choke, choke*

loss-loss
More comic relief from the jester :blah:

jjpro11
02-10-2007, 03:54 AM
the non homer in me probably says carson has the best overall skillset right now in terms of reading defenses, arm strength and accuracy.
now if we are talking situational (down by 6 with 2 minutes left in the 4th).. id say ben. mcnair is no longer in his prime. he used to be one of the best at this but not anymore. ben has led a good number of game winning or tying drives in the short time he has been here. hes got as much poise, if not more, than mcnair and palmer. i trust him to come in and get the job done when we need him most.

iloveben7
02-10-2007, 04:34 PM
^I love your sig!!!

CantStop85
02-11-2007, 09:26 AM
bunglefans think akili smith is better because he was drafted higher and had more college recognition despite k. ortons win/loss record as a rookie.

Duh.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-11-2007, 10:53 AM
yeah me too. im sure charlie batch woulda filled in nicely as an injured carson sat on the bench.

how's carson done in his most recent games against the colts and broncos when he faced the most pressure in his career to make the playoffs?

*choke, choke*

loss-loss

I think you are touching on something that alot of people are missing or are passing as mere smack...Carson has NOT proven that he can handle the pressure....at all...not once ...in a game that mattered.
He most certainly choked in his one and only playoff game..He choked numerous times at the end of this season and HAS to take a good portion of the responsiblity for the implosion against the Steelers.
If the WR's on the Bengals are as Elite as we are being told by their own fans...then who was responsible for the interceptions in clutch games?
Peyton gets a bad rap for not being a clutch performer..but has done more in the big games then Carson...who seems to be given a pass for his teams failure.
Its like I said in another thread...Carsons saving grace has been the attention that was placed on the team "thugs"...and taken off of him!!

BengalBrian
02-11-2007, 11:21 AM
I think you are touching on something that alot of people are missing or are passing as mere smack...Carson has NOT proven that he can handle the pressure....at all...not once ...in a game that mattered.
He most certainly choked in his one and only playoff game..He choked numerous times at the end of this season and HAS to take a good portion of the responsiblity for the implosion against the Steelers.
If the WR's on the Bengals are as Elite as we are being told by their own fans...then who was responsible for the interceptions in clutch games?
Peyton gets a bad rap for not being a clutch performer..but has done more in the big games then Carson...who seems to be given a pass for his teams failure.
Its like I said in another thread...Carsons saving grace has been the attention that was placed on the team "thugs"...and taken off of him!!

Carson choked in the playoff game? Ok then.. Past point proven

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-11-2007, 11:31 AM
Carson choked in the playoff game? Ok then.. Past point proven

sorry...mistype...I typed faster than I was thinking..he had a built-in excuse for the TEAM choking!!!....He was wheeled off BEFORE he got the chance....and you seemed to not want to talk about the other points?...very telling.

...Carson has NOT proven that he can handle the pressure....at all...not once ...in a game that mattered.

BengalBrian
02-11-2007, 12:06 PM
Carson has proven he can handle the pressure.. More than once.. Pay attention or dont make silly false statements... He handled the pressure against the Steelers in our first meeting... What was it? 2 touchdowns thrown by him in like 40 seconds..

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-11-2007, 12:15 PM
Carson has proven he can handle the pressure.. More than once.. Pay attention or dont make silly false statements... He handled the pressure against the Steelers in our first meeting... What was it? 2 touchdowns thrown by him in like 40 seconds..

Pay attention and dont make personal comments..."Games that mattered"....try not to be so thin skinned..and actually answer the point that was made

tony hipchest
02-11-2007, 12:17 PM
carson handles week 3 pressure like no other... :rolleyes:

but when the season is on the line he folds. the most wins he has ever had in a season is 11. thats not great by any means. qb's who can handle pressure (like manning, ben, and brady) routinely put up 11 wins.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-11-2007, 12:19 PM
carson handles week 3 pressure like no other... :rolleyes:

but when the season is on the line he folds. the most wins he has ever had in a season is 11. thats not great by any means. qb's who can handle pressure (like manning, ben, and brady) routinely put up 11 wins.

exactly...

X-Terminator
02-11-2007, 12:33 PM
For those Bengal fans who say Carson can handle the pressure of big games...let's point to the final game of last season as proof that he can't. With a playoff berth on the line, he could not and did not get the job done, on his home turf no less, and had it not been for Willie Parker's fumble at the goal line as he was going in for a TD, there wouldn't have even been a chance for him to try and pull out a miracle. Until Carson wins an important game, he's going to be mentioned in the same breath as Peyton Manning prior to this season. Good-to-great QBs who folded like a tent when it was all on the line.

Preacher
02-11-2007, 12:33 PM
Carson has proven he can handle the pressure.. More than once.. Pay attention or dont make silly false statements... He handled the pressure against the Steelers in our first meeting... What was it? 2 touchdowns thrown by him in like 40 seconds..


Fact is, there is a big difference between a week three game, and a game at the end of the year to make the playoffs. And the way the chips fell, the Bengals would have made the playoffs if they beat the Steelers.

There is pressure EVERY GAME too win. There is added presuure the last few games. Carson has not yet proven he can play in that situation.

Ben on the otherhand, has. He played okay for a rookie the first year in the playoffs, played EXCELLENT the second year in the playoffs... and in the 4 pressure games needed before the playoffs. Carson has not yet done that. Now, that is not to say he can't, or won't. Like Ben Carson is only a few years in this league. Like Ben, Carson still has to mature. Ben has to mature this year in his reads and decision making. Carson has to mature in his ability to deal with outside pressure (last games of the season... etc) and ability to escape the pocket.

I think both can AND WILL mature through those issues. that is why I keep saying that this will turn into one of the best QB rivalries in the game. Even better then Bradshaw/Staubach.

stlrtruck
02-12-2007, 08:20 AM
Over the last 2 years, Carson has outperformed Ben in virtually every category but Super Bowl victories, but being as the Super Bowl is a team accomplishment and we are discussing individuals, my vote goes to Carson.

Don't forget playoff games too!

CantStop85
02-12-2007, 08:30 PM
Don't forget playoff games too!
Actually, Carson has a 100% completion percentage in the playoffs. :thumbsup:

tony hipchest
02-12-2007, 08:34 PM
Actually, Carson has a 100% completion percentage in the playoffs. :thumbsup:randle el is better. he gan actually get it into the endzone and win a ring with the same completion %.

randle el> palmer :thumbsup:

:flap:

iloveben7
02-12-2007, 09:42 PM
^I agree Randle El is better than Palmer

stlrtruck
02-13-2007, 09:05 AM
Actually, Carson has a 100% completion percentage in the playoffs. :thumbsup:

100% completion rate
100% failure rate too

Elvis
02-14-2007, 01:54 PM
:tt02: :tt02: :tt02:
It all depends on what your team wants out of thier QB..
The Bengals want a more passing attack.. then yeh.. he probably is the best of the 3..
The Ravens are more like us Steelers.. they ask their QB not
to lose the game...
So, I have no vote because I would not be fair in saying that
No Matter What... Big Ben Is The Best...but ok ... I will vote
:helmet: