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View Full Version : The guys on PTI have interesting BIG BEN conversation


coachspeak33
02-28-2007, 12:28 PM
Wanted to create a thread specific to the Tuesday evening PTI. Would love to hear opinions/feedback from those of you that saw it. For those of you that didnt.....all i can say is WOW!!!
I wish i had a transcript of what exactly was said, but here are the greatest hits:
- Brought up Ron Cook's article discussing Big Ben's work ethic
- Kornheiser praised Big Ben's demeanor and personality
- Then he stated that any member of the Pittsburgh media will tell you that Ben is a "total diva...a TOTAL diva"
- Wilbon pointed his frustration towards NFL teams in general, saying "the NFL is a funny thing...actually sad really, when a team that doesnt expect to lose has a bad year tehy start to play the blame game....they act like, 'hey we lost and shouldnt have so someone has got to pay"
- Kornheiser brought up the "last one on...first one off" blast
- He also added that with a new regime coming in, this is the last thing the steelers need because the end result of things like this usually are "he is the reason we lost and he's gotta go"
- They both agreed that Big Ben is the perfect QB for this team, this city, etc.

I agree that this is not good...I also agree that this is gonna make Tomlins transistion that much harder...I live near Browns town and believe me QB contraversies is maybe the most powerful virus in all of prfessional football.

I feel he is our QB...period. However, I firmly believe that it is impossible for a QB to be labeled a low effort guy with a bad work ethic.

What are your thoughts...I there any truth to him having a bad work ethic? How will/should Tomlin handle this? Is Ben being made the fall guy by his teammates privately and the media is relaying is publicly?

I dont like this at all.

coachspeak33
02-28-2007, 12:30 PM
I feel he is our QB...period. However, I firmly believe that it is impossible for a QB to be labeled a low effort guy with a bad work ethic.


I meant to say impossible to carry this label and remain successful

fansince'76
02-28-2007, 12:31 PM
Leave it to ESPN to blow shit out of proportion. What QB controversy? Ben is heads and tails above anybody else we have on the roster at the position.

DACEB
02-28-2007, 12:39 PM
I live in Ma. so I would like to get someone from the 'Burghs take on this. Is there any truth to the last in first out thing?

As far as Ben goes I believe, I think like everyone believes, that Ben is the best QB we've had in a looonngg time. That being said it's time to put your money were your mouth is and get started working out with your recievers and coaches to get better as you yourself stated at the end of last season. C'mon Ben prove all the critics wrong!

Atlanta Dan
02-28-2007, 12:59 PM
Did not see PTI but as far as the "total diva" impression, I think a lot of that goes back to Cowher & Ben going back and forth on the extent of Ben's "injuries" (e.g. - "broken toes" after the AFC Championship loss) and his teammates thinking Ben is full of himself (e.g. - saying he was going to donate his playoff game salary to tsunami relief, after which Myron Cope said Ben was showing up his teammates and should have made such donation privately).

The NFL is like any other business - if what you do works then all is well but if it does not work then your behavior is flawed - that rule applies to the President of the U.S. on down, including NFL QBs.

momper
02-28-2007, 01:00 PM
One of my friends' sister was dating Cedric Wilson for a little bit. I don't know if you guys remember, but he posted some pictures of them hanging out on this forum. Anyway, Cedric said Roethlisberger does have a terrible work ethic, and he thinks Ben rode the success of the running game / defense to his fame. He said that during weight workouts and practices that Ben would walk around goofing off instead of trying to work his hardest. I imagine it hard to believe that the steelers' staff would let him do this, but unless Cedric was lying I honestly do believe that Ben needs to step up his work ethic.

fansince'76
02-28-2007, 01:06 PM
Anyway, Cedric said Roethlisberger does have a terrible work ethic, and he thinks Ben rode the success of the running game / defense to his fame.

Sorry, that doesn't explain what happened in the playoffs last year or why there was a 26-year gap between SB wins, because we have historically had a strong running game and defense (especially in the mid-90s). All of a sudden Ben shows up and in his 2nd year we win a SB. Coincidence? Think not, especially when we were stronger both in the running game and D in 1994-95 than we were last year.

Atlanta Dan
02-28-2007, 01:13 PM
Cedric Wilson is not bashful about throwing stones if something does not please Cedric - he no doubt includes Ben among those who are responsible for Cedric not being All-Pro and not having 100 catches per year. If it was Hines Ward as the source that would be a different matter.

I do not think the running game and D are the only reasons Ben came up big in the Cincy, Indy & Denver playoff wins.

OTOH, Cook is getting his information from somewhere. Only in Pitsburgh would the lead sports story in late February be the work ethic of the QB, but I think the coaches and/or vets (Faneca/Ward?) are sending a message to Ben, with Cook being the messenger.

TackleMeBen
02-28-2007, 01:15 PM
Everyone has different work habits, which makes them get their job done. I doubt anyone was complaining when we were winning all these games. Now, the team has a bad year and its dump on whoever we can. If being laid back works for him, so be it. Maybe wilson called him out b/c wilson could be jealous that ben was getting all the attention, but doesnt the qb get most of the attn anyway? IMO

tony hipchest
02-28-2007, 01:23 PM
i saw it and commented on it in another thread, about cooks article. they were pretty supportive of ben and kornheiser called him a diva in an almost tongue in cheek playfull way, not to be meant as an insult. it seemed they were using the word diva interchangably with superstar.

the guys on pti just discussed this article and they think people are getting a little revisionist because of the poor year (they both agree whith whiz that ben came back too soon both times)-

"2 out of 3 years ben was great so he mustve worked SOME" they pretty much downplayed the article and bens supposed lack of work ethic.

can i see ben clowning around in the weight room? sure. can i see ben not wanting to pump iron all the time like tom brady to bulk up? sure, he doesnt need too. if anyone remembers najeh 1st coming to the steelers think of him commenting how cowher didnt place #1 importance of hitting the weightroom and physical appearance as long as you were conditioneed and the job was getting done. you have some players who were workout warriors (joey, casey) then players like troy who do their own thing. then you have duce and jerome.

maybe tomlin forces players like troy and ben and all others to hit the weightroom all the same. changes like this could be a reason the rooneys decided not to keep the coaching in house.

fansince'76
02-28-2007, 01:26 PM
Cedric Wilson is not bashful about throwing stones if something does not please Cedric - he no doubt includes Ben among those who are responsible for Cedric not being All-Pro and not having 100 catches per year. If it was Hines Ward as the source that would be a different matter.

Bingo, Dan. Bingo.

paw-n-maul-u
02-28-2007, 01:38 PM
hahaha WHAT!?!?!? ... your sister's friend was dating him and im sure the first thing they wanted to find out about is b-roths work ethic. haha well my cousins neighbor takes care of ced's dog and SHE said that u are full of crap.

haha unreal. Regardless of whether he does or does not have a bad work ethic, that was just the most ridiculous thing i have heard.

SteelShooter
02-28-2007, 01:39 PM
i saw it and commented on it in another thread, about cooks article. they were pretty supportive of ben and kornheiser called him a diva in an almost tongue in cheek playfull way, not to be meant as an insult. it seemed they were using the word diva interchangably with superstar.

they pretty much downplayed the article and bens supposed lack of work ethic.

can i see ben clowning around in the weight room? sure. can i see ben not wanting to pump iron all the time like tom brady to bulk up? sure, he doesnt need too. if anyone remembers najeh 1st coming to the steelers think of him commenting how cowher didnt place #1 importance of hitting the weightroom and physical appearance as long as you were conditioneed and the job was getting done. you have some players who were workout warriors (joey, casey) then players like troy who do their own thing. then you have duce and jerome.

maybe tomlin forces players like troy and ben and all others to hit the weightroom all the same. changes like this could be a reason the rooneys decided not to keep the coaching in house.


Damned insightful thought. I had not thought of that scenario :dang: .........Thanks Tony!

Buzz05
02-28-2007, 02:33 PM
changes like this could be a reason the rooneys decided not to keep the coaching in house.



I think you hit the nail on the head with the hammer

Counselor
02-28-2007, 02:34 PM
Stuff like this shows me that it was time for change in the coaching staff. I am sure Ben's instant success contributed to his percieved lack of work-ethic. But don't forget Willie Parker's comments in the middle of the year about the complacency of the entire team! I don't think Ben was an exception---just maybe the most obvious.

Tomlin's got energy and he seems to be as much a discipline guy as a players guy---as long as he can get the vets to buy into his message ( and if the word from the Vikings is any indication--he can) I have a feeling he will bring out the best in everyone.

Its funny---to me, Tomlin seems like the kind of guy that you (as a player) don't want to "dissapoint" ---not because he'll be mad, but because he expected better of you. Thats a great motivational tool.

Atlanta Dan
02-28-2007, 02:40 PM
Fish rots from the head down - Cowher was headed out the door before the season started and the year turned into a victory lap rather than a title defense. I now think the Rooneys were seething about the entire team's attitude all year.

Interesting point that Troy also is not a weight room demon. Joe Greene also was not into weight training until the mid-70s when sheer talent was no longer enough. With Troy's injuries and sub-par season last year I agree Ben is not the only one who may not continue to get to march to his own drummer.

HeartofSteel
02-28-2007, 02:42 PM
Am I the only one that thinks all this discussion and speculation about Big Ben's work ethic, or lack thereof, is at best premature and at worst a total waste of time?

Based on his first two seasons is there anyway that he could have accomplished what he did without working hard? Can't we just take a cue from Whiz and chaulk last year's performance up to rushing back from his many trips to the hospital? If his problems stemmed from a lack of effort, why would Cowher, Whisenhunt, or any other credible coach give him a pass?...he's the damn franchise.

Let's worry about whether he's getting the rest and mental preparation he seemes to sorely need rather than whether he's lifting a few weights.

I'm all for in-depth discussion about irrelevant off-season topics but this just seems a little masochistic. We have a great quarterback. Why are we trying to convince ourselves that he's not everything we thought he was? He had a bad year....he'll be back.

Atlanta Dan
02-28-2007, 02:52 PM
Cowher gave Ben a pass because Cowher was heading out the door and did not give a damn about anything or anybody - the assistants were not in a position to do anything the HC would not support.

Cowher said he would not tolerate any more taunting penalties after the first Bengals game and we saw how effective that was. The team tuned out the coaches and had a year long recess last season.

I think discussing whether school is going to be back in seesion with a new HC is a legitimate point of off-season discussion on the board. As with other topics, anyone can pick and choose what they want to read and post about here.

Counselor
02-28-2007, 02:54 PM
Interesting point that Troy also is not a weight room demon. Joe Greene also was not into weight training until the mid-70s when sheer talent was no longer enough. With Troy's injuries and sub-par season last year I agree Ben is not the only one who may not continue to get to march to his own drummer.

Troy works out a lot, just maybe not in the weight room. I see him all the time at the Pine-Richland High School Tennis courts running drills with cones and the like.

I don't get the feeling Troy relies only on sheer talent---but you're right, I do think that Tomlin's regime will be more disciplined and vets (even superior ones) might not get all the same free passes Cowher gave.

tony hipchest
02-28-2007, 03:05 PM
I'm all for in-depth discussion about irrelevant off-season topics but this just seems a little masochistic. We have a great quarterback. Why are we trying to convince ourselves that he's not everything we thought he was? He had a bad year....he'll be back.right after being drafted, ben was not shy in stating his goals, to be a 1st ballot hall of famer and to be mentionned with the all time greats such as marino and elway. lofty indeed, and by his 2nd year he was breaking some of marinos records and being physically compared to elway. its not hard to imagine ben got caught up and started to think he had "arrived".

the accident and sugeries did alot of negative damage. before he was hurt the reports were that ben was looking better than he ever had and had the best set of mini camps in his young career. ben deserves a pass for last season. hes lucky he still is able to play football. but if he still has these lofty goals of being one of the best of all time, his raw talent wont do it alone. it will get him damn far, alot of money and maybe another ring or 2 but if he wants to be like manning or brady hes gonna have to work like manning and brady.

jerry rice and walter payton werent the best at their positions just on talent alone. they worked harder than anyone else and desired the greatness more than anyone. they went and took it. they didnt coast or wait for it to be handed to them.

ben may work and work hard. but there are those out there that are working harder. i think thats all this boils down too. i think its a relevant topic of discussion.

HeartofSteel
02-28-2007, 03:22 PM
I guess I shouldn't have said "irrelevant." The topic of his work ethic is relevant. It just seems that the discussion is non-progressive because we don't know what the truth is - we're just speculating based on the comments of a few. Ever since the Big Ben's accident I've been really suspect of overspeculation regarding what one person said to another without some sort of confirmation from someone who should know. Maybe it's just hard for me to believe that he doesn't work hard.

I meant no disrespect, I don't have a problem with people discussing anything they want...I'm probably among the last people who should have a say on what people on this forum discuss. I was just wondering if I was the only one that thought the topic was slightly bogus. If I am, that's cool.

I'll probably even keep reading the discussion.

Edman
02-28-2007, 03:36 PM
Stuff like this shows me that it was time for change in the coaching staff. I am sure Ben's instant success contributed to his percieved lack of work-ethic. But don't forget Willie Parker's comments in the middle of the year about the complacency of the entire team! I don't think Ben was an exception---just maybe the most obvious.

Tomlin's got energy and he seems to be as much a discipline guy as a players guy---as long as he can get the vets to buy into his message ( and if the word from the Vikings is any indication--he can) I have a feeling he will bring out the best in everyone.

Its funny---to me, Tomlin seems like the kind of guy that you (as a player) don't want to "dissapoint" ---not because he'll be mad, but because he expected better of you. Thats a great motivational tool.

This makes me glad we didn't hire Grimm, Whiz, or inside the organization. What alarmed me the most were comments by Craig Wolfley during the first Baltimore game. He said something along the lines of "This was the most resigned Steelers team I have ever seen". Or something like that. With the careless attitude the 2006 Steelers played, I'm suprised they finished 8-8. Then Cowher running up and praising Kordell 2.0 after the Atlanta game said it all. It was time for a change.

yinzer-inseattle
02-28-2007, 03:39 PM
You callin me a fathead!

http://www.fathead.com/fatheadsweb/_Images/nfl/products/medium/pit_roethlisberger_Ben_series2_med.jpg

Seriously, this is the worst kind of speculation; it does nothing to explain or change the past and will have no impact on the future. I'm sure the work ethic and attitude expectations have been discussed between Tomlin and Ben. It appears they are ready to move forward and work together for the team.

That's all we need to know.

Atlanta Dan
02-28-2007, 03:52 PM
I guess I shouldn't have said "irrelevant." The topic of his work ethic is relevant. It just seems that the discussion is non-progressive because we don't know what the truth is - we're just speculating based on the comments of a few. Ever since the Big Ben's accident I've been really suspect of overspeculation regarding what one person said to another without some sort of confirmation from someone who should know. Maybe it's just hard for me to believe that he doesn't work hard.

I meant no disrespect, I don't have a problem with people discussing anything they want...I'm probably among the last people who should have a say on what people on this forum discuss. I was just wondering if I was the only one that thought the topic was slightly bogus. If I am, that's cool.

I'll probably even keep reading the discussion.

No disrespect taken:smile:

Welcome to the board and I hope my reply does not cause you to be reticent about posting your views on proper posting topics.

You will find it is a pretty open group that, with rare exceptions, enjoys the give and take of conflicting opinions that are expressed with respect for the other point of view.

tony hipchest
02-28-2007, 03:53 PM
Seriously, this is the worst kind of speculation; it does nothing to explain or change the past and will have no impact on the future. I'm sure the work ethic and attitude expectations have been discussed between Tomlin and Ben. It appears they are ready to move forward and work together for the team.

That's all we need to know. i think these 2 recent clips show that no one should bee feeling comfortable in front of tomlin. theres too much talent and that needs to be tapped. no reason or excuse for failure. i think tomlins gonna get his message across crystal clear to all players and i think he will be effective in doing it, and i think the players will be willing to crank it up an extra notch if need be. their jobs may depend on it.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_494922.htmlTomlin and Colbert are at the NFL Scouting Combine evaluating prospects for the draft. Their focus shifts this week to free agency, and in both areas the Steelers have been tight-lipped about what positions they will try to address.

"We're an 8-8 team. We've got to leave no stone unturned," Tomlin said last week on the subject of the Steelers and free agency. "We've got to look to upgrade most positions, so that's our mentality. Are we capable of doing that? No. We're in the process of prioritizing what we need to get done, so that's how we'll approach it."


http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/Story/2_26_Tomlin_adjusting

He's spent much of his first few weeks with the Steelers watching as much film as possible of the players he inherited from Bill Cowher. Thus far, Tomlin likes what he sees.

"I see a very talented team, of course. A team that's physically and mentally tough," said the 34-year-old Tomlin. "We have some standout players at various positions. There's a lot to be excited about."

HeartofSteel
02-28-2007, 03:59 PM
No disrespect taken:smile:

Welcome to the board and I hope my reply does not cause you to be reticent about posting your views on proper posting topics.

You will find it is a pretty open group that, with rare exceptions, enjoys the give and take of conflicting opinions that are expressed with respect for the other point of view.

Thanks man. :cheers:

Stater136
02-28-2007, 04:40 PM
FYI, if you want to listen to yesterday's PTI you can download the Podcast for free on iTunes.

Stater136
02-28-2007, 04:42 PM
Discussion occurs ~7:45 into the podcast.

SteelerTim
02-28-2007, 06:09 PM
Not all successful QBs have a great work ethic ... can you say Bobby Layne? Look at the similarities. Bobby didn't want to wear a facemask ... Ben doesn't want to wear a Motorcycle helmet. Bobby likes to party ... Ben likes to party. Bobby didn't have a chiseled body ... Ben doesn't have a chiseled body. Bobby didn't win squat ... Ben didn't win ... wait a minute ... Ben led the team to a SB championship.

Well ... I didn't say they were exactly alike :cheers:

fansince'76
02-28-2007, 09:20 PM
FYI, if you want to listen to yesterday's PTI you can download the Podcast for free on iTunes.

Not worth the bandwidth, IMO.

14dathum
02-28-2007, 09:36 PM
ben will be fine,hes the man

drew102e
03-01-2007, 11:37 AM
as long as he stays off the cycles

tony hipchest
03-01-2007, 06:52 PM
Fish rots from the head down - Cowher was headed out the door before the season started and the year turned into a victory lap rather than a title defense. I now think the Rooneys were seething about the entire team's attitude all year.

Interesting point that Troy also is not a weight room demon. Joe Greene also was not into weight training until the mid-70s when sheer talent was no longer enough. With Troy's injuries and sub-par season last year I agree Ben is not the only one who may not continue to get to march to his own drummer.

and i guess j. porter was the neck?

interresting about the weightroom issue... one of the reasons joe horn was allowed to go (and maybe wanted to) was because he didnt like certain rules of s. payton, specifically weightroom issues. and j horn is chiseled like a rock!

in a sense porter is like horn as far as team leadership goes, but the new "young buck" coach comes in and shows whos leader of the herd.

i can see tomlin working them hard.

drew102e
03-01-2007, 09:08 PM
...and losing the locker room and then its another 8-8

nobody wants a tom coughlin type, he better tread lightly

no bettis, no porter, who exactly is this teams leader, Hines?