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View Full Version : Trade A. Faneca & H. Ward???


tony hipchest
03-03-2007, 04:37 PM
say atlanta and arizona both want to give up their 2nd round picks for ward and faneca (+ maybe some mid to late round choices too).

what do we do?

Shea
03-03-2007, 05:08 PM
why trade two crucial players when we legitimately have a chance next year? this is a good team, just a year removed from the Super Bowl, and I know they are getting old, but c'mon....trade Hines??? are you trying to kill me here?!?

fansince'76
03-03-2007, 05:18 PM
Yeah, it would really suck to see either Hines or Faneca go, but if it came down to having to let one or both of them go in order to be able to keep Troy and Ben, I know what I'd want the FO to do....

abowens
03-03-2007, 05:22 PM
Hines continues to be underrated. If he were playing for Peyton, he would be statistically one of the best - top 5 - receivers in the league. What if it were suggested that the Colts trade Marvin Harrison? Same thing.

And Faneca? Everyone in the league recognizes he is one of the top 2 in the league at his position. Most would say Hutchinson is 1 and Faneca is 2.

The notion of trading both or either is simply not logical.

24seven
03-03-2007, 05:26 PM
First Bettis then Hinze.. no freakin way!!!!!!! Maybe if a he had an Owens attitude but you stick guys like that on your team for life if at all possible.. Both are humble hard nose playin mutha fackas.!!!!

LambertIsGod58
03-03-2007, 05:27 PM
Hines continues to be underrated. If he were playing for Peyton, he would be statistically one of the best - top 5 - receivers in the league. What if it were suggested that the Colts trade Marvin Harrison? Same thing.

And Faneca? Everyone in the league recognizes he is one of the top 2 in the league at his position. Most would say Hutchinson is 1 and Faneca is 2.

The notion of trading both or either is simply not logical.



I think you mean to say if Hines played in a system more like the Colts...

NV STEELERS 723
03-03-2007, 05:28 PM
BC leaving, and Hines Smile leaving would send me over the edge...I responded to this post out of shear nonsense...

I can't wait till the season starts, and we have something to really talk about.

fansince'76
03-03-2007, 05:29 PM
And Faneca? Everyone in the league recognizes he is one of the top 2 in the league at his position. Most would say Hutchinson is 1 and Faneca is 2.

I agree with this point. However, I liken it to losing Dermontti Dawson and Rod Woodson. I think we felt the loss of Woodson alot deeper and for alot longer than the loss of Dawson, even though both were among the best players in NFL history at their respective positions. I'm not thinking about next year as far as this issue goes, but come 2008, we may realistically be having to look at making major sacrifices like this.

NV STEELERS 723
03-03-2007, 05:31 PM
say atlanta and arizona both want to give up their 2nd round picks for ward and faneca (+ maybe some mid to late round choices too).

what do we do?

First of all , that won't happen... second of all "we" is not us.... "we" is the Rooneys...only they can answer that "we" question.

tony hipchest
03-03-2007, 05:35 PM
The notion of trading both or either is simply not logical.... not from a fans point of view. from a managerial/ ownership point of view its extremely logical.

put it this way: out of these 4 you can only keep 2 in order to remain competitive and turn this into a 4 man show.

faneca
ward
ben
polamalu

pick 2.

tony hipchest
03-03-2007, 05:37 PM
First of all , that won't happen... second of all "we" is not us.... "we" is the Rooneys...only they can answer that "we" question.im not asking the rooneys. im asking "we" as a fanbase.

Preacher
03-03-2007, 05:39 PM
Ward stays until he retires. He is basically the next Bettis on the team.

Faneca on the otherhand, well.. who would play in his spot? I have not problem with it as long as we have a player to step up and play. However, I wouldn't let him go without getting quality in return.

NV STEELERS 723
03-03-2007, 05:41 PM
im not asking the rooneys. im asking "we" as a fanbase.

then you should have said "we" as a fanbase, or this forum.

I consider "we" as the Rooneys.

tony hipchest
03-03-2007, 05:45 PM
Ward stays until he retires. He is basically the next Bettis on the team.

Faneca on the otherhand, well.. who would play in his spot? I have not problem with it as long as we have a player to step up and play. However, I wouldn't let him go without getting quality in return.so ward is gonna take a paycut like bettis? ward has much more left in the tank than bettis did when he took his cut. i cant speak for ward but i dont think hes ready to be paid like a back up just like porter wasnt.

the only way to maximize value out of faneca is to either trade him now, or make him the highest paid guard in the league. if we pay him, we cut alot of important players or risk losing polamalu.

fansince'76
03-03-2007, 05:50 PM
so ward is gonna take a paycut like bettis?

No way. Hines has already held out once - don't recall Bussie ever doing that. I think folks need to look at this like a GM, and put the sentimentality aside for a moment. The concept of "loyalty to team" went out decades ago, I'm afraid.

NV STEELERS 723
03-03-2007, 06:11 PM
Holy Sh*t Tony........ the wounds from losing Porter are too fresh..... I can't even begin to think about a scenario like this. Are you trying to kill me?? :eyecrazy: :flap:

Right on the Money!

tony hipchest
03-03-2007, 06:11 PM
then you should have said "we" as a fanbase, or this forum.

I consider "we" as the Rooneys.my bad. i automatically assumed "we" as those actually reading this question, and taking part in the poll.

abowens
03-03-2007, 06:17 PM
Let's be optimistic and hopeful - maybe with a hint of delusion...Hines could have gotten more money elsewhere when he did his last contract. He will be able to get more when that time comes again. Hopefully, The Bus had enough of an impact on Hines that he again, will take less than he could get elsewhere. He is a sentimental and sensitive guy ya know. So maybe, just maybe his desire to retire a Steeler will outweigh his desire for more money.

If Tomlin endears himself to the team like Cowher did and things are going well (as in ring #6) then that will make a difference too. If things aren't good then...

fansince'76
03-03-2007, 06:23 PM
Let's be optimistic and hopeful - maybe with a hint of delusion...Hines could have gotten more money elsewhere when he did his last contract. He will be able to get more when that time comes again. Hopefully, The Bus had enough of an impact on Hines that he again, will take less than he could get elsewhere. He is a sentimental and sensitive guy ya know. So maybe, just maybe his desire to retire a Steeler will outweigh his desire for more money.

If Tomlin endears himself to the team like Cowher did and things are going well (as in ring #6) then that will make a difference too. If things aren't good then...

I am optimistic and hopeful - this scenario is a nightmare to me. In regards to Hines' holdout, one thing that "brought him around," so to speak, was the fact that T.O. was holding out at the same time and made himself look like an absolute ass (what else is new?) in doing so. We may not be as lucky to have such a powerful external influence next time around.

tony hipchest
03-03-2007, 06:27 PM
Let's be optimistic and hopeful - maybe with a hint of delusion...Hines could have gotten more money elsewhere when he did his last contract. He will be able to get more when that time comes again. Hopefully, The Bus had enough of an impact on Hines that he again, will take less than he could get elsewhere. He is a sentimental and sensitive guy ya know. So maybe, just maybe his desire to retire a Steeler will outweigh his desire for more money.

If Tomlin endears himself to the team like Cowher did and things are going well (as in ring #6) then that will make a difference too. If things aren't good then...ive remained optomistic and hopeful the steelers will win the sb every year as long as i can remember. and that wont change. it doesnt always work out that way though. theres a pink elephant in the room called the "salary cap" and its about time we realistically aknowledge it.

pushing it aside and mortgaging the future isnt the 'rooney way"

abowens
03-03-2007, 06:34 PM
ive remained optomistic and hopeful the steelers will win the sb every year as long as i can remember. and that wont change. it doesnt always work out that way though. theres a pink elephant in the room called the "salary cap" and its about time we realistically aknowledge it.

pushing it aside and mortgaging the future isnt the 'rooney way"

Fortunately for the Steelers, the unrealistic thinking of the fans doesn't impact the Rooney's decisions or bottom line. And fortunately for the fans, we can remain blissfully delusional or drown ourselves in hypothetical misery or do both at the same time without making or breaking a season or even a single play.

fansince'76
03-03-2007, 06:46 PM
Fortunately for the Steelers, the unrealistic thinking of the fans doesn't impact the Rooney's decisions or bottom line. And fortunately for the fans, we can remain blissfully delusional or drown ourselves in hypothetical misery or do both at the same time without making or breaking a season or even a single play.

I think a good way we can possibly keep all four players is for the Rooneys to shake the stubborn policy of not talking contract extensions with players who have more than a year to go on their current deals. I've seen Tony mention this in other threads and I have to agree - Faneca's price skyrocketed in just the last two days due to recent FA signings.

abowens
03-03-2007, 06:53 PM
I think a good way we can possibly keep all four players is for the Rooneys to shake the stubborn policy of not talking contract extensions with players who have more than a year to go on their current deals. I've seen Tony mention this in other threads and I have to agree - Faneca's price skyrocketed in the just last two days due to recent FA signings.

That is a great point! Too bad they don't read this. I wonder if anyone that has their ear has ever mentioned that.

I do know that their strong and consistent support of their policy is effective and vital. For instance, I think Hines saw in his holdout that he would get no where. The Rooney's refuse to discuss contracts with players on strike, right? They may view the policy of not discussing contracts until the final year is approaching in the same way. However, this is one policy they should consider changing. If they need a black and white rule, then change that rule to better fit today's business climate and then stick to that with the same tenaciousness.

fansince'76
03-03-2007, 06:56 PM
That is a great point! Too bad they don't read this. I wonder if anyone that has their ear has ever mentioned that.

I do know that their strong and consistent support of their policy is effective and vital. For instance, I think Hines saw in his holdout that he would get no where. The Rooney's refuse to discuss contracts with players on strike, right? They may view the policy of not discussing contracts until the final year is approaching in the same way. However, this is one policy they should consider changing. If they need a black and white rule, then change that rule to better fit today's business climate and then stick to that with the same tenaciousness.

I can understand the Rooneys not wanting to get burned, but some players are worth the risk. These four are a primary example.

Sith Lord
03-03-2007, 07:10 PM
You'd be banned at other steelers sites for posting this sillyness.

OneForTheToe
03-03-2007, 08:23 PM
Good question, Tony hipchest. As fans, it is interesting to discuss which of those four players to keep. For the Steelers, however, I don't think they will make decisions based on just those four. There are other players on the team who will have a huge impact on the salary cap. Ike, for example …… that could be a decision based on if he rebounds this season.

As for the four players you listed, I'm not sure I see Ward as having a huge impact on the decision to resign Troy. If they can't resign Troy within the next year he is gone. Doesn't Ward have 2 or 3 years left on his contract?

I do think when the time comes to resign Ben, then maybe the Steelers will have to make a decision about Hines. Of course, given all the change this year, who can predict what the situation will be in two or three years.

yinzer-inseattle
03-03-2007, 08:36 PM
If you know a guy is not going to hang up his cleats as a Steeler, then why not trade him? I'd rather see us get some compensatory picks then for it end the way it did yesterday. With that said, I think the Steelers would get more for Faneca then for Hines. IMO there just are not many teams in need of a WR that blocks to the level the Steelers do. Hines would command a lot, and I don't see the yardage and TD productivity to warrant top WR money.

OneForTheToe
03-03-2007, 09:19 PM
I think I read somewhere that the Steelers did try to shop Joey a little. The thing is, why would another team trade for Joey when they are pretty sure the Steelers are going to release him anyway?

BOXCAR JOEY
03-03-2007, 09:25 PM
i know players come and go, but give up pure franchise players that are part of the wins? to me sir that seems ludacrisp. not honey nut and crisp. plain old ludacrisp. I wouldnt sell off(trade) for a draft pick. sure you can get some hot shot college boy, but raw talent doesnt replace EXPERIENCED talent that produces game in and game out.

PhillyBallHawks
03-03-2007, 09:26 PM
No, no, no. Those two are the faces of your franchise. No.

Preacher
03-03-2007, 09:38 PM
HEY TONY...

I agree with you that Ward won't take a paycut.. now. But when Ward is no longer able to be the top dog at the WR position, I would not be surprised to see him come out and take a paycut. He wants to retire a Steeler. Don't forget. The Bus got his payday, then took a cut later on.

Stillers#1
03-03-2007, 11:03 PM
... not from a fans point of view. from a managerial/ ownership point of view its extremely logical.

put it this way: out of these 4 you can only keep 2 in order to remain competitive and turn this into a 4 man show.

faneca
ward
ben
polamalu

pick 2.

Why in the world would we only have to keep two? Tony, I know you are playing devil's advocate, but come on......

If Faneca doesn't retire as a Steeler, I will take a shit on Colbert's desk.

Florida_Steelers_Fan
03-04-2007, 07:41 AM
trades of this magnitude are very rare in the nfl...salary cap issues prevent a lot of trades from happening. also, ward and faneca are starting "to get up there" in "nfl age." guys approaching 30 and beyond are considered to be on the downside of their careers, so it's not like people will be banging on the door to get these guys.

i just don't want the steelers to face salary cap issues like the 49ers did and suck for 3 years. i believe in the "steeler way" as it's patient and sees the long-term over the short.

tony hipchest
03-04-2007, 12:02 PM
Why in the world would we only have to keep two? Tony, I know you are playing devil's advocate, but come on......

If Faneca doesn't retire as a Steeler, I will take a shit on Colbert's desk.in 08 h. wards cap hit jumps to 7,450,000. faneca's open market value will be a modest raise from his current salary to about 8,000,000. polamalu will be worh ed reed $ which is about 5-6,000,000. bens hit is about 2,600,000 next year but the following year (going into the final year of his contract) is due an 8,000,000 bonus.

in the meantime willie parkers cap hit takes a huge jump to 4,000,000. count the huge contracts of hampton and smith with the new deals that will have to be given to holmes and miller and we will have about 10 guys eating up about half the cap. (hines cap hit in 09 is 8.5 mil- even if we cut him then, it only relieves us 5 mil of that.)

keeping all these players can be done but we have to quit pissing draft picks away in the wind or letting rookies rot on the bench for 3 years before we decide we dont know what theyre worth.

either way something has got to change and something WILL change. with all that being said, its up to faneca and ward to agree to take pay cuts to remain a steeler. faneca is already showing signs that he may be thinking "f' this shit, im outta here in a year".

heres a list of salaries i been looking at:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07005/751393-66.stm

geo1963
03-04-2007, 01:34 PM
Judging by all these comments you would think the Steelers have never won anything or done anything right> For the most part they are one of the most successful franchises in the league and essentially go into every year with the attitude of winning a championship. Ward and Faneca for second round picks ??? you've got to be kidding, i'd laugh my a-- off if that was even offered..then go watch a Browns game for some real shits and giggles. The Rooney's will do whatever it takes to put a championship caliber team on the field. Certain players define what a team is about, and Hines will be one of them and WILL retire a Steeler. As far as Faneca is concerned if he goes, he goes, quality guards in this league are not all that hard to come by, but true character and leadership are(Hines Ward). Cap dollars increase yearly for teams so there will be money to spend, I'm sure they won't keep everyone, but they'll keep who they NEED to, not who we WANT them to in order to challenge for that championship.

polamalufan43
03-04-2007, 01:34 PM
Honestly, I don't think we can afford to lose anyone big at this point. I mean, we lost three players after the SB and look what happened. We need to establish some new leadership before we start trading guys left and right.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

tony hipchest
03-04-2007, 02:21 PM
Honestly, I don't think we can afford to lose anyone big at this point. I mean, we lost three players after the SB and look what happened. We need to establish some new leadership before we start trading guys left and right.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:ummm.... theres a big difference between being able to figuratively "afford to lose" a player and literally "afford to pay" a player.

the nfl doesnt care what type of leadership we think we need. theres this little thing called the salary cap in place, and the steelers (just like 31 other teams) must abide by it.

this is a tough crows. i could probably suggest an even up trade between joe thomas and faneca and people would balk at the idea.

Elvis
03-04-2007, 02:28 PM
say atlanta and arizona both want to give up their 2nd round picks for ward and faneca (+ maybe some mid to late round choices too).

what do we do?
:dang:
Tony... if you were our GM and you proposed this trade to
even come into consideration... well...
That is one of the Stupidest Trade offers that I have
Ever Heard!!!!!!
:tt02:

tony hipchest
03-04-2007, 02:50 PM
:dang:
Tony... if you were our GM and you proposed this trade to
even come into consideration... well...
That is one of the Stupidest Trade offers that I have
Ever Heard!!!!!!
:tt02: yeah, losing players to free agency or cutting them with no compensation whatsoever is a much better alternative :dang:

we will just throw money at all our players and keep them all. its pretty obvious if our fans ran the steelers, we would be the redskins.

OneForTheToe
03-04-2007, 03:00 PM
...... its pretty obvious if our fans ran the steelers, we would be the redskins.


I think we would be looking up at the skins - as well as the Browns, Bungles and Ratbirds every year.

tony hipchest
03-04-2007, 03:09 PM
I think we would be looking up at the skins - as well as the Browns, Bungles and Ratbirds every year.i get the feeling alot of fans think this is like the 94 49ers where you can have the top qb, and wr, and still aford to get the top cb and a top free agent like rickey watters, where your talent on the offensive line or defensive front 7 doesnt drop one bit.

unfortunately in todays nfl and with the steelers talent, we cant afford to put a franchise tender on all 22 starters.

fansince'76
03-04-2007, 03:12 PM
i get the feeling alot of fans think this is like the 94 49ers where you can have the top qb, and wr, and still aford to get the top cb and a top free agent like rickey watters, where your talent on the offensive line or defensive front 7 doesnt drop one bit.

unfortunately in todays nfl and with the steelers talent, we cant afford to put a franchise tender on all 22 starters.

Yep, I well remember the 49ers playing fast and loose with the cap in the early days of Plan B - they've been a league doormat for how many years now as a result of it?

tony hipchest
03-04-2007, 03:23 PM
Yep, I well remember the 49ers playing fast and loose with the cap in the early days of Plan B - they've been a league doormat for how many years now as a result of it?everyone says faneca, ward, polamalu, ben all need to retire as a steeler, but nobody is coming up with a realistic way to pay for all this under the confines of the NFL IMPOSED SALARY CAP.

when was the last time we had the highest paid player at ANY position??? and now all of a sudden (while our backs are against the salary cap wall) we are gonna shit money to have the highest paid safety AND guard in the league???

the rooneys dont even pay their head coach market value. anyone who doesnt understand this is not familiar with the "rooney way" or simply dont understand simple economics and budgeting.

lesson #1 the salary cap is VERY similar to a budget. ALL 32 teams have to abide by it, and there is no exceptions, regardless of how much steelerfans love their players or whomever they believe to be a "leader" or a "face of the franchise"

Stillers#1
03-04-2007, 03:34 PM
everyone says faneca, ward, polamalu, ben all need to retire as a steeler, but nobody is coming up with a realistic way to pay for all this under the confines of the NFL IMPOSED SALARY CAP.

when was the last time we had the highest paid player at ANY position??? and now all of a sudden (while our backs are against the salary cap wall) we are gonna shit money to have the highest paid safety AND guard in the league???

the rooneys dont even pay their head coach market value. anyone who doesnt understand this is not familiar with the "rooney way" or simply dont understand simple economics and budgeting.

lesson #1 the salary cap is VERY similar to a budget. ALL 32 teams have to abide by it, and there is no exceptions, regardless of how much steelerfans love their players or whomever they believe to be a "leader" or a "face of the franchise"

Hey dude, we are all FANS, not GM's or owners. Let us ****ing be fans, who love our players, especially guys like Faneca and Ward....and yes Porter.

Yeah I'll be pissed if Faneca goes, I modeled the way I played the game afer him. He has been my favorite player since I was in high school, and I don't want to see him go, period, dot.

I'll be just as pissed at him though.

tony hipchest
03-04-2007, 03:45 PM
Hey dude, we are all FANS, not GM's or owners. Let us ****ing be fans, who love our players, especially guys like Faneca and Ward....and yes Porter.

Yeah I'll be pissed if Faneca goes, I modeled the way I played the game afer him. He has been my favorite player since I was in high school, and I don't want to see him go, period, dot.

I'll be just as pissed at him though.we can all be fans. thats what these are for:

:tt02: :tt02: :tt02: :tt02: :tt02:

in the meantime i'd like to discuss the steelers and what they are doing to keep us competitive in the next 5-10 years of the tomlin era.

even though im a fan, i dont believe that my waving of the terrible towel is like a turbine or generator that produces the power for more steelers wins.

id rather have another 2nd round pick to go towards defense or wards replacement, than to keep around a well payed player who wants to half ass his way through a final year, before cashing in with his buddies in AZ.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-04-2007, 03:48 PM
Hey dude, we are all FANS, not GM's or owners. Let us ****ing be fans, who love our players, especially guys like Faneca and Ward....and yes Porter.

Yeah I'll be pissed if Faneca goes, I modeled the way I played the game afer him. He has been my favorite player since I was in high school, and I don't want to see him go, period, dot.

I'll be just as pissed at him though.

You bring up a good point about the portion of responsibility that falls on the player...Many times franchises are extremely loyal to their players only to HAVE to let them go because of demands beyond the franchises means.
When this happens ...other factors come into play...if a team has to pick between an aging guard or a young safety who both are equally adept at their position and both demanding more money...a younger player will win out everytime.

Other than Bettis, it is extremely rare to see a player take a cut to stay with a team.

tony hipchest
03-04-2007, 04:12 PM
You bring up a good point about the portion of responsibility that falls on the player...Many times franchises are extremely loyal to their players only to HAVE to let them go because of demands beyond the franchises means.
When this happens ...other factors come into play...if a team has to pick between an aging guard or a young safety who both are equally adept at their position and both demanding more money...a younger player will win out everytime.

Other than Bettis, it is extremely rare to see a player take a cut to stay with a team.interresting thing with bettis: when he took his paycut there was no team lined up to make him the highest paid running back in the league.

when faneca enters his last crack at free agency next year, there will be atleast 5 teams willing to give him a $50,000,000 contract.

thats no chump change. i would think he was a retard for NOT leaving the steelers. the rooneys about choked when they had to give hines ward an $8 mil signing bonus. theyre not about to hand out 15-20 mil. these extreme signing bonuses are 1 of the many reasons we will never be seeing the steelers drafting in the top 5

Stlrs4Life
03-04-2007, 04:43 PM
Sorry tony, went with the frickin nuts choice. If we do that we will be short at LB, OL, and WR. I do like getting nice draft picks, but the inexperience would kill us.

tony hipchest
03-04-2007, 04:51 PM
Sorry tony, went with the frickin nuts choice. If we do that we will be short at LB, OL, and WR. I do like getting nice draft picks, but the inexperience would kill us.lol. no problem. when i create a poll, i try to make it as unbiassed as possible.

with 1 1st rounder and a couple of 2nd rounders we can easilly draft replacements for our departed. new england and san diego havent had much trouble putting rookie lineman into their starting line up.

the hardest to replace would be ward. thats why i voted option 3: "trade 1 or the other".

joeys replacement will come with the 15th pick.

jjpro11
03-04-2007, 05:45 PM
without reading all the replies.. is this an f'n joke?

X-Terminator
03-04-2007, 06:01 PM
Well, eventually we are going to have to face this possibility, so being realistic, I chose option 3. If one of them were to be traded, I'd rather it be Faneca than Ward, for the simple fact that it's much easier - and cheaper - to replace a Pro Bowl guard than a Pro Bowl WR.

19ward86
03-04-2007, 07:55 PM
funny.............hines(best reciever ever), faneca(best guard ever)

SteelShooter
03-04-2007, 08:07 PM
................something I just do not wanna think about.

pitt
03-04-2007, 10:49 PM
LOL Your crazy for even thinking up this situation!

tony hipchest
03-04-2007, 11:29 PM
LOL Your crazy for even thinking up this situation!yeah, crazy things happen in the nfl.

dallas trades their best offensive weapon for 3 1st and 2nd rounders.

ditka trades his whole draft to move up to pick r. williams.

rams trade their 1st round rb pick to the steelers for a 3rd rounder (ironically they make it to the superbowl long before jerome does w/ the steelers)

colts trade m. faulk to the rams and draft e james. faulk immediately makes it to the sb and james leads the league in rushing his 1st 2 years.

colts finally let james go (crazy right?) and finally win a superbowl themselves.

point is, its better to be ahead of the curve than behind it.

tony hipchest
04-20-2007, 05:32 PM
85% against any trade
15% for a trade of atleast one

i wonder how much this percentage has changed in the last month and a half.

X-Terminator
04-20-2007, 07:45 PM
85% against any trade
15% for a trade of atleast one

i wonder how much this percentage has changed in the last month and a half.

Good point. I vote for 65-35 in favor of trading Faneca...

If nothing else, they will take your point more seriously. Trading Faneca in particular would avoid his current histrionics, nix any potential holdout and would give the team value in return rather than risk losing him for nothing. Unfortunately, many fans allow emotion to get in the way of looking at the big picture.

GBMelBlount
04-20-2007, 08:01 PM
... not from a fans point of view. from a managerial/ ownership point of view its extremely logical.

put it this way: out of these 4 you can only keep 2 in order to remain competitive and turn this into a 4 man show.

faneca
ward
ben
polamalu

pick 2.

Would it help if we traded or cut Marvel Smith?

tony hipchest
04-20-2007, 08:10 PM
Would it help if we traded or cut Marvel Smith?smith is too valuable to cut at this point. with the highest cap value of any steeler this season, he has no reason to be disgruntled. plus he has too much built in value as a left tackle. he is 10X better than leonard davis was for the cardinals and the cowboys just gave him $50 mil. cardinals would snap him up in a heartbeat.

but him and haggans along with faneca (and possibly troy if he wants to go back to the west coast) could all be gone after this season. marvel smith is signed through 2008 but still counts 6.5 mil against the cap which is fairly cheap compared to what he would get on the open market. we need to look at extending him or drafting his replacement.

GBMelBlount
04-20-2007, 08:20 PM
Just wondering, PAT's have been consistently very good (like Steelers) in recent years. They seem to lose alot of players each year I am assuming for financial reasons as well. Do you know how many top ranked/paid players they have compared to the four we've been discussing?

RoethlisBURGHer
04-20-2007, 08:21 PM
I have no problem trading Faneca at this point.He's been very vocal in a bad way the last few years,is getting old for an o-lineman,and doesn't seem to wanna play for Mike Tomlin.

I bet the Cards would gladly give up thier second-rounder for Faneca,and I'd take that deal in a heartbeat if I were the Rooneys and Kevin Colbert.

tony hipchest
04-20-2007, 08:35 PM
Just wondering, PAT's have been consistently very good (like Steelers) in recent years. They seem to lose alot of players each year I am assuming for financial reasons as well. Do you know how many top ranked/paid players they have compared to the four we've been discussing?basically 3 members of our o- line have made more money than any pat except for brady and seymore.

and faneca is worth atleast 2 2nd rounders or a 1st. otherwise we keep him and get a 3rd round compensatory pick after next season.

Livinginthe past
04-21-2007, 05:28 AM
Maybe its worth running this poll again - like Tony says I think Steelers fans wil be alot more receptive to a trade now.

Just wondering, PAT's have been consistently very good (like Steelers) in recent years. They seem to lose alot of players each year I am assuming for financial reasons as well. Do you know how many top ranked/paid players they have compared to the four we've been discussing?

Some salary cap figures for the 2007 season (*Samuel hasn't signed his franchise 1 year contract at this time - if he were to sign a long term deal the cap hit would be significantly reduced)

Brady - $11.4million
*Samuel - $7.8million
Seymour - $6.7million
Colvin - $6.4million
Light - $4.7million
Vrabel - $4.1million
Harrison - $3.4million

Compared to the Steelers.

Faneca - $6.1million
Farrior - $4.2million
Hampton - $6million
Aaron Smith - $5.4million
M.Smith - $6.6million
I. Taylor - $5million
H. Ward - $5.9million

Here's how they shake out in terms of cross-team ranking, along with the players age (*Steelers in bold)

Brady - $11.4million (28)
Samuel - $7.8million (25)
Seymour - $6.7million (27)
M.Smith - $6.6million (28)
Colvin - $6.4million (29)
Faneca - $6.1million(30)
Hampton - $6million(30)
H. Ward - $5.9million(30)
Aaron Smith - $5.4million(30)
I. Taylor - $5million (26)
Light - $4.7million (28)
Farrior - $4.2million (31)
Vrabel - $4.1million (31)
Harrison - $3.4million (34)

Things to be noted (as Tony H and others have mentioned) the Steelers franchise QB has yet to appear on this high salary cap hit list - it is unavoidable that he will very soon when his rookie contract is renegotiated.

Expect to see him right under Brady.

I listed the top 7 salary caps for each team - Pittsburgh has 5 players of 30years or older on that list - the Patriots have 2.

Those two factors (the age of the highest salary cap hits and Bens imminent big salary cap hit) mean that moves have to be made now rather than later when the Steelers have their hands tied.

It hurts to lose your best players but thats the nature of the game these days - you have to keep the soil fertile, chop away the dead wood in order for new shoots to burst through.

That confused analogy will probably tell you all you need to know about my total lack of knowledge regarding gardening matters :sofunny:

RoethlisBURGHer
04-22-2007, 01:03 PM
and faneca is worth atleast 2 2nd rounders or a 1st. otherwise we keep him and get a 3rd round compensatory pick after next season.

Faneca is worth what you say he is,but in no way will the Cardinals give up two second or thier first when they can sign him in free agency.

I'd much rather get one second rounder for him this year than a compensatory third after he gets plucked from us as a free agent.

MasterOfPuppets
04-22-2007, 01:08 PM
Faneca is worth what you say he is,but in no way will the Cardinals give up two second or thier first when they can sign him in free agency.

I'd much rather get one second rounder for him this year than a compensatory third after he gets plucked from us as a free agent.
they will if they want him this year and they can avoid a bidding war for him next year.

tony hipchest
04-22-2007, 03:42 PM
they will if they want him this year and they can avoid a bidding war for him next year.:yep:

seattle will be 1 team looking to get into that bidding war with them.

-they regret losing hutchinson in the worst way
-they tried to get that guard from san diego by offering him top dollar
-they dont want to see arizona get stronger
-they have a core that is sb worthy except for the position faneca plays

faneca isnt guaranteed to go to the cardinals next year. he can go to green bay, or cleveland and play with his old coach cowher

MasterOfPuppets
04-22-2007, 03:58 PM
:yep:

seattle will be 1 team looking to get into that bidding war with them.

-they regret losing hutchinson in the worst way
-they tried to get that guard from san diego by offering him top dollar
-they dont want to see arizona get stronger
-they have a core that is sb worthy except for the position faneca plays

faneca isnt guaranteed to go to the cardinals next year. he can go to green bay, or cleveland and play with his old coach cowher

i'd think seattle would have cap problems of thier own.they've thrown some pretty descent chunks of change to some of thier players.( alexander,burelson,branch.....)

tony hipchest
04-22-2007, 04:02 PM
i'd think seattle would have cap problems of thier own.they've thrown some pretty descent chunks of change to some of thier players.( alexander,burelson,branch.....)thats what i thought too until i saw they mad the san diego guard an above competitive offer. (they got walter jones locked up long time too plus j. peterson from sf. theyre still not in bad shape.

MasterOfPuppets
04-22-2007, 04:14 PM
thats what i thought too until i saw they mad the san diego guard an above competitive offer. (they got walter jones locked up long time too plus peterson (?) from sf. theyre still not in bad shape.
i just don't see how....branch -6 year 39 mill/ 13 gauranteed....burelson - 7 year 49 mill...grant -6 year 30 mill/11.2 mill bonus...alexander 8 year 62 mill/15.1 mill bonus

rich4eagle
04-22-2007, 04:36 PM
I think the Steelers should stay pat this year on Faneca and Ward depending on how the draft goes. If a clearcut replacement for one of them happens they consider trading. I would be reluctant in trading Ward even the Steelers draft a WR stud like Johnson because of his leadership on the field and propensity to make big plays. Faneca is a different story. Of course it all evolves around money. The Steelers make good decisions balancing money and performance to maximize team quality.

I think they should allow Tomlin to have a big input before they do anything with either of them.

RoethlisBURGHer
04-22-2007, 06:18 PM
faneca isnt guaranteed to go to the cardinals next year. he can go to green bay, or cleveland and play with his old coach cowher

I no he's not gauranteed to go there,but I think most agree that is where he shall end up.

Arizona will over him a nice chunk of change,plus he gets to play for Whiz and Grimm?It's what he wants,and I truly think that is where he'll go.

LambertLunatic
04-22-2007, 09:10 PM
I'd much rather get one second rounder for him this year than a compensatory third after he gets plucked from us as a free agent.

This is especially true if a team like Ariz were our trading partner. The 5th pick in round 2 should give us a MUCH better player than the 33rd pick in round 3 (comp pick). I just don't see Ariz going along with such a trade.

Atlanta Dan
04-23-2007, 07:23 AM
It mayt be just saying soemthing to fill up a column, but Peter King makes this observation in his MMQB column today:

I think Pittsburgh guard Alan Faneca, in the current NFL economic climate, deserves a raise from $3.4 million a year. And I think he'll get it from the Steelers, who do not have many alternatives to replace the best offense lineman on their team.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/04/22/mmqb/5.html

Faneca obviously is entitled to a raise, I just think his expectations and the Steelers budget do not meet up.

melroseplace
04-25-2007, 10:26 PM
there's no way in hell I'd ever vote to let Hines go!

Man_Of_Steel
04-25-2007, 10:36 PM
say atlanta and arizona both want to give up their 2nd round picks for ward and faneca (+ maybe some mid to late round choices too).

what do we do?

Wow, just WOW! Drunk?