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View Full Version : What is wrong with our roster?


DACEB
03-09-2007, 01:18 PM
Is our roster that bad, our backups that poor that we will take someone elses scrubs over who we have already.

I understand we need depth, but with some of these guys are'nt we digging pretty deep. Or is it that we don't have much talent in the backup roles.

Everyone is saying we need to draft R. Kalil. The Steelers have been paying Okobi pretty good for someone that no one is sure will start. Add to that we drafted M. Phillip last year.

At this time it doesn't seem like we have any backup LB's to step in and play at a fairly high level besides J. Harrison.

Who have we been grooming, how well have they been groomed. You would think with the situation we're in with the cap and some of our aging players that we would have some younger players capable of stepping in.

I have faith in the FO and I am excited about Tomlin and what he can do, but why does it seem like we're suddenly in dire straits.
Someone lift me out of this funk.

tony hipchest
03-09-2007, 01:28 PM
i think right now were looking for that $2 million player who we can sign for the minimum. remember we didnt get n. davenport when free agency began, but after the final pre season cuts. if we can find a james harrison player out there on the streets, were gonna look.

and think about it this way. if we can find a scrub linebacker from another team that shows about as much potential as a rookie 6th round pick, perhaps we can use that pick packaged with others to move up in the draft.

just possibilities here.

Jeremy
03-09-2007, 01:39 PM
What is wrong with our roster?

Not enough Michigan Wolverines. :wink02:

Donnie Iris
03-09-2007, 02:15 PM
At this time it doesn't seem like we have any backup LB's to step in and play at a fairly high level besides J. Harrison.

Who have we been grooming, how well have they been groomed. You would think with the situation we're in with the cap and some of our aging players that we would have some younger players capable of stepping in.



Zo Jackson? :tt02: :dang:

TackleMeBen
03-09-2007, 02:22 PM
What is wrong with our roster?

Not enough Michigan Wolverines. :wink02:

if they are like brady we dont need them :wink02:

Haiku_Dirtt
03-09-2007, 03:00 PM
What is wrong with our roster?

Not enough Michigan Wolverines. :wink02:

:toofunny: That's the funniest thing since witnessing Bo slamming his clipboard into the Rose Bowl turf after another off tackle rush into the endzone. Couldn't stop them then. Still can't stop them now.

If you want to shore up the defensive side of the ball then just ask Pete Carroll who he is willing to sell to the NFL. I love Rey Maualuga. :jawdrop:

On the more serious side we must keep our focus on the offensive line. Plugging in new linebackers seems like child play for Kevin Colbert. Plugging the holes on the right side shouldn't be left up to the New Orleans Levee Commission.

Stainless Steel
03-09-2007, 03:11 PM
The F.O. is well known for getting diamonds in the rough and honing them into good team players. Look at Parker as a great example of that. If they are getting scrubs right now, it is because they are looking to third string/practice squad people. If they don't work out well and become the diamonds in the rough we'd like to see, they become tackling dummies for our first string.

It is hard to grasp sometimes when you see other teams paying big bucks for good talent while we pick up these type of guys. All of the NFL teams have to keep under the same type of salary cap that we do. If they spend big bucks for big talent, that means they have to pay that much less for the rest of the team.

19ward86
03-09-2007, 03:38 PM
too many wolverines! lol
our roster needs speed on defense and on offense.

ChronoCross
03-09-2007, 03:44 PM
There is nothing wrong with our roster. We have quality in depth and grooming of players. Picking up a scrub here and there is no big deal. That scrub might of been lacking in coaching and did not fit to the other teams system and might just turn out great in our system along with some good coaching.

You watch guys who leave our system and get mega bucks from another team and they do not fit to there system and really never heard of again. There is a select few of players who have left us who went to a team with almost the same system who kept doing well.

You will also go why did we pick up all this players and it will be to fill up to the maximum amount of players we can have at that time to provide maybe a change here and there adding a better practice squad player are two, better competition thru camp before we start making cuts. There is many reasons teams just pick up a lot of players during the off season. You call them scrubs, there might just be a gem there.

Jeremy
03-09-2007, 04:56 PM
if they are like brady we dont need them :wink02:

That was a joke, and it went over like a lead balloon.

Speed is the key. We need speed at all the positions on the roster, especially linebacker. The one big need we have is to get a couple of athletic linebackers (like Buster Davis) or a good DE/OLB combo (like Jarvis Moss) to give our defense a shot in the arm of speed.

Suitanim
03-09-2007, 07:36 PM
I remember when we signed Jeff Hartings. He was considered by many as a scrub from a shit team. He worked out okay.

James Farrior was no great shakes when we signed him from the Jets, and it was hardly a major signing. A couple years ago he was about as dominant a LB as there was in the league.

Travis Kirschke was a very minor signing from the Niners, but his ability to play any DL position was monumental during the Steelers Super Bowl run.

Mike Logan certainly wasn't a superstar at Jacksonville, but he's been a solid starter/contributor in the defensive secondary since.

Since the Steelers are a team that builds and wins internally through the draft, we as fans should never go into any FA period looking for big splashy signings. They generally don't work out anyway...

Stainless Steel
03-09-2007, 07:51 PM
I look at it this way. We not only have to build a team for this year, we need to build a team for three, four, five years down the road. We MUST find the diamonds in the rough that are willing to work cheap. Not many of the FA are willing to do this. They are looking for the big $$$$$$$$.

GBMelBlount
03-09-2007, 08:43 PM
I think we need some FA gems but realistically, we need to crush in the draft! We didn't last year but we have had a few drafts that have been historic. Go Steelers!
P.S. - This steelers 74 episode on NFL network is outstanding. They really overcame so much adversity.

Suitanim
03-09-2007, 08:54 PM
Little early to have any kind of defining view on last years draft...it usually takes at LEAST 3 years to properly evaluate a draft.

NV STEELERS 723
03-09-2007, 08:56 PM
We need to make some OF line improvements, and at LB....but other than that our roster is fine

GBMelBlount
03-09-2007, 09:08 PM
Little early to have any kind of defining view on last years draft...it usually takes at LEAST 3 years to properly evaluate a draft.

As far as long term quality of the keepers yes. But I'm hoping for a draft like the early 2000's where we had more keepers & starters. We need depth at alot of positions and I hope we have more keepers this year.

GBMelBlount
03-09-2007, 09:14 PM
We need to make some OF line improvements, and at LB....but other than that our roster is fine

I agree. I think Taylor is talented and just has to develop at cornerback. But I wouldn't mind another solid cornerback and maybe a DE. We are not that far removed from our super bowl team. Just need to hope ben is fully recovered and we don't have the ridiculous number of turnovers that lost us 4 or 5 games last year. :tt02:

NV STEELERS 723
03-09-2007, 09:42 PM
I agree. I think Taylor is talented and just has to develop at cornerback. But I wouldn't mind another solid cornerback and maybe a DE. We are not that far removed from our super bowl team. Just need to hope ben is fully recovered and we don't have the ridiculous number of turnovers that lost us 4 or 5 games last year. :tt02:

Yes 23 INT'S did not help last year...it seems like everyone of them was turned into a score against us.

Haiku_Dirtt
03-10-2007, 02:13 AM
The F.O. is well known for getting diamonds in the rough and honing them into good team players. Look at Parker as a great example of that. If they are getting scrubs right now, it is because they are looking to third string/practice squad people. If they don't work out well and become the diamonds in the rough we'd like to see, they become tackling dummies for our first string.

It is hard to grasp sometimes when you see other teams paying big bucks for good talent while we pick up these type of guys. All of the NFL teams have to keep under the same type of salary cap that we do. If they spend big bucks for big talent, that means they have to pay that much less for the rest of the team.

Yes.

Haiku_Dirtt
03-10-2007, 02:53 AM
There is nothing wrong with our roster.

Okay maybe. But what is RIGHT with the roster?

1) We have a healthy, focused and dedicated QB with uncanny downfield vision.

response: Last year he couldn't hit oxygen if it were open for a first down. His escapability became the only highlight towards the end of the season. Who can guarantee that Ben's 'one night stand' with a windshield was not the beginning of the end? His freakin' head was reconstructed by seven brilliant men. If he wasn't in PGH (world class medical staff) he may be already dead.

2) We already locked in a shut down corner for the rest of the decade.

response: He was benched after cashing a $6 million check.

3) We have a Super Bowl offensive line.

response: Did anyone watch the Baltimore and Jacksonville games last year? I thought the NCAA didn't play on Sunday.

4) Willie Parker broke rushing records and holds the Super Bowl record.

response: Did anyone watch the Baltimore and Jacksonville games last year? What does it mean when I am anxious to see what Division II standout Kuhn can do that Staley and Hayes couldn't.

5) Hines Ward. Third rounder. Hence why I feel first round draft picks on receivers are ill-advised. Primadonnas are high mantainence and costly.

response: I've been in a jungle for awhile but did I read that Hines is tired of being a leader? Hines "tired of being a leader"!?? WTF!!@! THIS TO ME IS THE WRITING ON THE WALL.

SOOOOO. What is wrong with our roster? Plenty. But not unlike every team out there.

The writing on the wall is TOMLIN. And right now we are in uncharted waters. Sort of. The constant of the Rooney's and K. Colbert may matter most.

DACEB
03-13-2007, 10:42 AM
Pick / Selection
2003
1 16 Troy Polamalu SS Starter
2 59 Alonzo Jackson OLB Gone
4 125 Ike Taylor CB Starter
5 163 Brian St. Pierre QB Backup/Practice
7 242 J.T. Wall RB Gone
2004
1 11 Ben Roethlisberger QB Starter
2 38 Ricardo Colclough CB Backup
3 75 Max Starks T Starter
5 145 Nathaniel Adibi DE Gone
6 177 Bo Lacy T Gone
6 194 Matt Kranchick TE Gone
6 197 Drew Caylor C Gone
7 212 Eric Taylor DE Gone
2005
1 30 Heath Miller TE Starter
2 62 Bryant McFadden CB Starter
3 93 Trai Essex T Backup
4 131 Fred Gibson WR Gone
5 166 Rian Wallace ILB Backup/Practice
6 204 Chris Kemoeatu G Backup
7 228 Shaun Nua DE Backup/Practice
7 244 Noah Herron RB Gone
2006
1 25 Santonio Holmes WR Starter
3 83 Anthony Smith FS Starter
3 95 Willie Reid WR Backup
4 131 Willie Colon T Backup
4 133 Orien Harris DE Gone
5 164 Omar Jacobs QB Gone
5 167 Charles Davis TE Gone
6 201 Marvin Philip C Backup
7 240 Cedric Humes RB Gone

That's 30 picks
8 starters
9 backup or practice squad
13 players gone
that's not bad, but
3 RB's picked 3 gone
4 OLB/DE picked 4 gone
that's bad

For a team that drafts so well, we have not been able to restock our defensive front 7 for four years now.

GBMelBlount
03-13-2007, 11:15 PM
Good job DACEB - we need new blood on defense. However, overall the steelers starting lineup is no older than the ave. for the league.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
03-13-2007, 11:20 PM
We need another WR who can stretch the field

GBMelBlount
03-13-2007, 11:31 PM
We need another WR who can stretch the field

Aren't you more concerned with improving the O-line before upgrading receiver?:tt02:

Suitanim
03-15-2007, 08:49 PM
I'd like to revise this a bit:

Pick / Selection
2003
1 16 Troy Polamalu SS Starter
2 59 Alonzo Jackson OLB Gone (Failed Experiment)
4 125 Ike Taylor CB Starter
5 163 Brian St. Pierre QB Backup/Practice (5th round security blanket QB most end up out of football)
7 242 J.T. Wall RB Gone (7th rd...90% of these guys are gone)
2004
1 11 Ben Roethlisberger QB Starter
2 38 Ricardo Colclough CB Backup (Possible '06/'07 starter...injured)
3 75 Max Starks T Starter
5 145 Nathaniel Adibi DE Gone (Failed experiment)
6 177 Bo Lacy T Gone (6th round OL...how many actually succeed?)
6 194 Matt Kranchick TE Gone (see above)
6 197 Drew Caylor C Gone (same)
7 212 Eric Taylor DE Gone (same)
2005
1 30 Heath Miller TE Starter
2 62 Bryant McFadden CB Starter
3 93 Trai Essex T Backup (Possible '07 starter...he was a true find since most teams had him WAY lower)
4 131 Fred Gibson WR Gone (failed experiment)
5 166 Rian Wallace ILB Backup/Practice (Possible 07 starter)
6 204 Chris Kemoeatu G Backup (Possible 07 starter)
7 228 Shaun Nua DE Backup/Practice (7th rounder still on the team)
7 244 Noah Herron RB Gone (Can't keep every RB...he's still playing for GB)
2006
1 25 Santonio Holmes WR Starter
3 83 Anthony Smith FS Starter
3 95 Willie Reid WR Backup
4 131 Willie Colon T Backup (Injured...status: Unknown)
4 133 Orien Harris DE Gone (No room)
5 164 Omar Jacobs QB Gone (5th Rd QB...most don't make it)
5 167 Charles Davis TE Gone (No Room)
6 201 Marvin Philip C Backup (Shockingly in competition for starting job)
7 240 Cedric Humes RB Gone(Practically the last guy taken)

If you look at our draft with a jaundiced eye, you'll see failure. However, this is a team that won the Super Bowl a little over a year ago with 19 of it's 22 starters being Steelers draft choices or undrafted FA signings.

That says exactly one thing: Unprecedented success at drafting players.

DACEB
03-16-2007, 08:51 AM
For a team that drafts so well, we have not been able to restock our defensive front 7 for four years now.

Suitanim, I stated that we are a team that drafts well. You can't deny the fact, though, that we have not replenished our defensive front 7.

I don't think you can call our day 2 picks in recent years unprecidented successes. Again I believe the Steelers do draft well, but yet here we are strapped by the cap with little or no quality depth on the defensive front 7.

Roster management is also to blame. As you stated there is no room for a new player yet you have slugs like Duce on the roster.

SteelersFreak
03-16-2007, 10:10 AM
We need more speed on the d-line IMO, when we get some pressure on the QB and our OLB's get taken out of the play, QBs run all over us because our d-line can't catch up.

Suitanim
03-16-2007, 04:35 PM
This is exactly the same argument that was being made about LB's last year. Will we draft DL this year? Almost certainly. But it's way off to think that it's some glaring deficiency. Aaron Smith had a good year last year and has been to the Pro Bowl, and there were games where he just blew up...he's also resigned. Hampton is a perennial Pro-Bowler, and Keisel is actually a pretty big upgrade over Von Oelhoffen against the run, and DL in the 3-4 aren't supposed to rack up sacks anyway. Incidentally, Keisel was a 7b pick.

As far as replenishing the DL, we picked Rodeny Bailey back up last year, we drafted Shaun Nua a couple years ago, we have Chris Hoke and Travis Kirschke for depth. We have 8 players+ on the roster now for 3 spots. The DL is not the weak link on the defense.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-16-2007, 05:01 PM
I'm confused...its not our defensive line that is defecient....Keisel led the Steeler defense with 23 QB hurries this last year and Smith was second with 21. Hampton is STILL the best NT in the league and had a pro-bowl year.
It was most certainly our OLB's who failed to rush off the edges... Joeys lack of production combined with his age and his demands, cost him his job...
Suit ..you are correct...Our DL may be the strongest portion of our defense.

MasterOfPuppets
03-16-2007, 05:10 PM
anyone ever stop to think that coaching may have had something to do with the defensive problems? defence is just like offense when it comes to getting to predictable and conservative. most teams seemed to have an answer for the blitzes.

Suitanim
03-16-2007, 05:12 PM
Our LB's were okay last year, but a nagging injury here and there and a putrid offense early on in the year was a killer. Porter was asked to do an awful lot last year, but a lot of that was in support of the defensive backfield. I was wrong about him, though: His best days are definitely behind him. That's why we need to address the DL, though...you never know exactly when a portion of your offense or defense crosses that line from "veteran" to "over the hill", and we definitely saw some of that from the LB corp last year...I think out DL is still young enough to avoid that for now, though.

tony hipchest
03-16-2007, 05:17 PM
anyone ever stop to think that coaching may have had something to do with the defensive problems? defence is just like offense when it comes to getting to predictable and conservative. most teams seemed to have an answer for the blitzes.people minimized the loss of chris hope. we were warned in the pre season that the coaches were gonna have to be much more vanilla with their blitz packages (especially polamalu) with the addition of a new qb to the defense. it was hope making all the calls, and losing him had to lead to some calls being missed or mistakes being made and the coaches playing it a bit more conservative to compensate. of course this wasnt the only factor, but it played a part.

most people just look at hopes numbers and trouble bringing down big players to see his importance.

Livinginthe past
03-16-2007, 05:29 PM
people minimized the loss of chris hope. we were warned in the pre season that the coaches were gonna have to be much more vanilla with their blitz packages (especially polamalu) with the addition of a new qb to the defense. it was hope making all the calls, and losing him had to lead to some calls being missed or mistakes being made and the coaches playing it a bit more conservative to compensate. of course this wasnt the only factor, but it played a part.

most people just look at hopes numbers and trouble bringing down big players to see his importance.

Who do you think will be the defensive QB this year?

Ryan Clark is way more experienced, but Steeler nation seems to like Anthony Smith more as an actual player.

NM

tony hipchest
03-16-2007, 05:44 PM
Who do you think will be the defensive QB this year?

Ryan Clark is way more experienced, but Steeler nation seems to like Anthony Smith more as an actual player.

NMi think it has to be a. smith. theres no time to bring him along slowly like we did w/ c. hope and from what i understand smith has always been one to put in the effert to take over such a role. he has the confidence to embrace that role. im 99% sure troy will be back but smith still needt to get on the ball. if theres ever a year our team has, to go through a learning curve, it is this year (with a rookie hc). personally i like the quicker development of capable young players who are thrown into the fir. if tomlin is smart, not knowing what troy is likely to do with a new regime, he would take players like smith, ike, and mcfadden under his wing and mold them into his image. that tampa bay secondary was pretty sick during their sb run.

Suitanim
03-16-2007, 05:49 PM
Oh, Anthony Smith will absolutely (barring injury) be our replacement for Hope. He actually showed more flashes in his frosh year than Troy did in his.

Bear in mind that Troy is an absolute freak about watching film, and Ryan Clark may be even more of a film guy. Think Smith didn't catch on right away?

Our secondary (again, barring injury) should be freakishly loaded. I expect Taylor to overcome his sophomore slump, Coke to really make a push, and McFadden to figure in hugely.

Livinginthe past
03-16-2007, 05:51 PM
i think it has to be a. smith. theres no time to bring him along slowly like we did w/ c. hope and from what i understand smith has always been one to put in the effert to take over such a role. he has the confidence to embrace that role. im 99% sure troy will be back but smith still needt to get on the ball. if theres ever a year our team has, to go through a learning curve, it is this year (with a rookie hc). personally i like the quicker development of capable young players who are thrown into the fir. if tomlin is smart, not knowing what troy is likely to do with a new regime, he would take players like smith, ike, and mcfadden under his wing and mold them into his image. that tampa bay secondary was pretty sick during their sb run.

That would be a nice solution, as you say Smith doesn't appear to lack for confidence.

I think you are absolutely right about this year being a 'learning curve year' - im sure players will be allowed the odd mistaje as ,ong as they show the potential to learn and improve.

So, you think (injury permitting) that A. Amith will be the starter week1?

tony hipchest
03-16-2007, 06:00 PM
That would be a nice solution, as you say Smith doesn't appear to lack for confidence.

I think you are absolutely right about this year being a 'learning curve year' - im sure players will be allowed the odd mistaje as ,ong as they show the potential to learn and improve.

So, you think (injury permitting) that A. Amith will be the starter week1?i think he needs to be and should be, but i also believe tomlin will go into camp with no favoritism, pre conceived notions and give every man a fair shot to win the job (thats the best way for tomlin to win over the team as a whole). if that is clark, then great.

smith is signed on one of the shorter rookie deals and i believe he is the future and i wish he was locked up longer. if he isnt given the starting job, it makes him more affordable in the final year of his contract to give him a long term extension. clark is on the books. the money side shouldnt interfere with the x's and o's but it does. either way, we will be fine as stacked as we are.

in fact, im amazed a team like dallas hasnt made a move for 1 of our safeties (carter).

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-16-2007, 06:46 PM
Defensive Line:
Strong at DE....If we wanted to upgrade, Adam Carriker is "our" type of DE...for backups we could go with Ikaika Alama-Francis from Hawaii, or Benjamin "Chase" Pittman from LSU.
Stronger at DT....We would look at backup only in the later rounds...Like Keith Jackson from Arkansas or Joe Cohen from Florida.

Linebackers:
Good players but getting OLD..and little depth.
ILB...Still solid, need some depth...may try and get a good player in the 3rd/4th rounds...like Brandon Siler of Florida...later picks dont have as much value ...If Paul Posluszny is still there at #47..We should look long and hard at him as an ILB.
OLB is our thinnest position and may be our first pick .....Quinton Moses of Georgia and Jarvis Moss from Florida fit what we have looked for in the past...(If we are going to switch to a 4-3 ...Lawrence Timmons of Florida St or Paul Posluszny may be the future at this slot)...Stewart Bradley from Nebraska or Dallas Sartz of USC may get looks in the later rounds if we go a different direction in the first round.

Cornerbacks:
CB is a BIG question mark...Was Ike a dissapointment because of coaching or some other factor?....either way...outside of Taylor and McFadden..we have VERY little...I love Marcus McCauley of Fresno State and believe with all my heart that he will be better than Hall, Revis, and Ross...He may be sitting at #47 and would be a solid value pick there. If we wait until later in the draft.. C.J. Gaddis from Clemson is a sleeper that may be picked up on the second day AND will may push for a starting position in some defensive sets.

Safety
Safety will be stronger with Smith starting.
IF we wanted a solid player (and possibly push three players for a starting position) and a player that is EXTREMELY versatile...Brandon Meriweather from Miami can play every secondary position with authority...later rounds have some talent with Roderick Rogers of Wisconsin or Marvin White of TCU

Suitanim
03-16-2007, 06:56 PM
I gotta disagree about CB. A team can only carry so many, and Cowher said that Coke was just tearing it up last year before he got injured. McFadden and Ike/Coke with Townsend as backup is solid. CB's are expensive, and teams can't carry more than 4-5 of them. Given that we have more than that now (Harrison Smith, Grant Mason, Anthony Madison, Jovon Johnson and Chidi are all on the roster now), i just can't see the Steelers drafting any CB's on the first day.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-16-2007, 07:34 PM
I gotta disagree about CB. A team can only carry so many, and Cowher said that Coke was just tearing it up last year before he got injured. McFadden and Ike/Coke with Townsend as backup is solid. CB's are expensive, and teams can't carry more than 4-5 of them. Given that we have more than that now (Harrison Smith, Grant Mason, Anthony Madison, Jovon Johnson and Chidi are all on the roster now), i just can't see the Steelers drafting any CB's on the first day.

Suit ..I gotta tell you...I have NEVER been a fan of Townsend...Even in the playoffs two years ago ...I watched Deshea play follow the leader waaaaay to many times. I like McCauley for several reasons....#1 is to let Deshea go....#2...is to have a speed demon that can play nickel and/or push McFadden and Taylor into performing like starters....who else is going to push them....Coke?...Deshea?....Nothing makes a player work like knowing that there is some serious talent RIGHT behind them who is fighting for that time in the spotlight .

GBMelBlount
03-16-2007, 08:02 PM
Oh, Anthony Smith will absolutely (barring injury) be our replacement for Hope. He actually showed more flashes in his frosh year than Troy did in his.

Bear in mind that Troy is an absolute freak about watching film, and Ryan Clark may be even more of a film guy. Think Smith didn't catch on right away?

Our secondary (again, barring injury) should be freakishly loaded. I expect Taylor to overcome his sophomore slump, Coke to really make a push, and McFadden to figure in hugely.

I agree on all points except maybe Coke. Also, If we can pick up on the QB pressure it will help our secondary too. And hopefully our defense will be on the field less this year.

Suitanim
03-16-2007, 08:10 PM
Coke was very high on Cowher's radar in his second year, just like Ike was. Ike was a stud in his year #2 and dropped off a tad last year.

As for Deshea, the guy has been underrated since he was drafted out of Bama, but he has consistently overachieved. He's a coaches player, and the Steelers rightly love him so, but his days are numbered. I say keep him around and let him retire a Steeler...he's earned it.