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83-Steelers-43
03-10-2007, 06:09 AM
Polamalu, Faneca due for big contracts

By John Harris
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Saturday, March 10, 2007


In Mike Tomlin's first group interview with local print reporters after he became the Steelers' new coach, he made a point to mention three players the team can't do without.

Tomlin said Pro Bowl safety Troy Polamalu and Pro Bowl nose tackle Casey Hampton will thrive in any defense. And he said perennial Pro Bowl guard Alan Faneca is an automatic starter.

Among them, Hampton, Polamalu and Faneca have been voted to 12 Pro Bowls.

By stating the obvious, Tomlin identified three impact players the Steelers can not afford to lose.

But like it or not, the Steelers may be without at least one after next season.

Hampton is signed through 2009. The Steelers have two more years before they have to redo Hampton's contract.

Faneca and Polamalu are a different story. Their contracts expire following the 2007 season. Given that Steelers management normally tries to lock up players they intend to retain the year before their contract expires, this offseason is critical.

Fortunately for the Steelers, management doesn't often face a situation like this one, when the contracts of two elite players expire in the same season.

Compounding -- and confounding -- matters is free agency.

Given the exponentially greater financial rewards now available to free agents, and given the Steelers' history for being fiscally conservative, management may be forced to choose between two of its best -- and most popular -- players.

Unless the Steelers go against the grain and offer blockbuster deals to both players, expect Faneca and Polamalu to play out their current contracts, with free agency a very real possibility for at least one, and maybe both.

The scuttlebutt traveling among player agents is that Marvin Demoff, Polamalu's high-powered representative, wants a dollar more than Baltimore safety Ed Reed's six-year, $45 million deal that includes a $15 million signing bonus.

Polamalu is a special talent. Steelers management acknowledges as much. The Steelers take care of their own (unless you're Joey Porter). But management also realizes that Polamalu has suffered several concussions since college, and he had a rough 2006 season because of shoulder and knee injuries.

If the Steelers don't give Polamalu the contract he wants, they can always designate him as their franchise player in 2008. That means Polamalu would earn the average salary of the top five safeties while the two sides try to hammer out a new deal.

Why would the Steelers designate Polamalu as the franchise player instead of Faneca? Because Polamalu is five years younger than Faneca.

Which brings us to Faneca. He's been to six straight Pro Bowls and won a Super Bowl. Compare that with tackle Leonard Davis ($49.6 million) and guards Eric Steinbach ($49.5 million), Derrick Dockery ($49 million) and Kris Dielman ($38 million), four free agents whose salaries total $186 million with a guaranteed $70 million the first two years.

Faneca, who turns 31 in December, is older than his four more highly paid peers, and age must be factored into his next contract. However, it should be noted that Davis, Steinbach, Dockery and Dielman have yet to win a Super Bowl or appear in a Pro Bowl. It should also be noted that Faneca is far more accomplished than any of those players, and that he should be good for at least three or four more high-caliber seasons.

With teams falling over themselves to overpay average talent, imagine what Faneca could command in free agency. Unless the Steelers break tradition and offer Faneca a landmark contract, there's no incentive for him to sign a year early.

Because he's older, Faneca wants to cash in on one final payday, even if he doesn't finish his career with the Steelers. Remember, Faneca was a big fan of former offensive line/assistant head coach Russ Grimm. Faneca wasn't happy when Tomlin got the job over Grimm, and that displeasure could factor into his decision when negotiating his next deal.

Whether they keep Polamalu or Faneca, the Steelers can't lose. Either player is like money in the bank. The Herculean task facing the Steelers, if they choose to accept it, will be trying to keep both players.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_497027.html

polamalufan43
03-10-2007, 07:18 AM
Good read. I really hope they keep both. But about that rumor, well i don't think it's true.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

Atlanta Dan
03-10-2007, 07:31 AM
Good read. I really hope they keep both. But about that rumor, well i don't think it's true.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

Article is a good review of what we have been discussing here.

If the "rumor" that you do not regard to be true is Troy wanting to get more than Reed, I believe you can take that to the bank. With today's boosts in salaries, there is no way Troy signs for less than what Reed got.

Given what Troy will cost, I do not believe the Steelers are also willing to pay Faneca what he will command on the open market.

So let's get Troy signed ASAP.

19ward86
03-10-2007, 09:05 AM
one thing they didnt mention was if we signed them both, there is a possibility. i think they are both the best at their position out of the whole league, but if i had to choose i would choose polamalu because he is 26, he has had injuries but so has ed reed and i dont remember the ravens releasing him.....troy is younger,and he plays for the best part of our team....THE DEFENSE! the steelers are a defensive team so i believe they will stay defensive.

NCSF
03-10-2007, 09:15 AM
I really hope they get Troy signed without any distractions or delays. Troy is worth his weight in gold to us in my opinion.

X-Terminator
03-10-2007, 09:24 AM
Decisions, decisions...

To me, the safe - and smart bet - is to make Troy the highest-paid safety in the league, and to do it before his contract ends and they're forced to use the franchise tag, which they would almost certainly do. They would then run the risk of having to pay even more than they would have had to this year if another, possibly lesser, safety is given more money than Reed next offseason. So that means that Faneca will be gone after this season - I can't see the Steelers paying him over $50 million at this stage of his career and especially if he's going to be a disgruntled player because his favorite coach is gone. As I said in another thread, it is "easier," IMO, to replace a Pro Bowl guard than a Pro Bowler at a skilled position, such as safety in this case.

NV STEELERS 723
03-10-2007, 09:38 AM
6 yrs ..45 million!!!! Damn . I wonder what Big Ben will cost!

polamalufan43
03-10-2007, 10:39 AM
6 yrs ..45 million!!!! Damn . I wonder what Big Ben will cost!

Probably a heck of a lot more, that is if they dont take in to consideration the possible injuries.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

The Duke
03-10-2007, 11:02 AM
Troy doesn't seem like the kind of guy who wants the big money, that's just his agent right? Anyway I think they should resign him, and Faneca depending on what he wants, he'll be 32 next year, as much as I hate to admit it I just think we won't see him retire a Steeler, I would love for that to happen though.

Atlanta Dan
03-10-2007, 11:25 AM
Troy doesn't seem like the kind of guy who wants the big money, that's just his agent right? Anyway I think they should resign him, and Faneca depending on what he wants, he'll be 32 next year, as much as I hate to admit it I just think we won't see him retire a Steeler, I would love for that to happen though.

Troy does not drive a Ferrari during the season while the Bentley convertible is garaged at his summer home in the Hamptons, but I bet he expects to be paid market value. Just because he does not spend the $$ on bling, he can use it to take care of his family and make an impact in the community.

Don't count on any sort of discount because Troy appears to have it together in his personal life with regard to what really matters.

I agree the numbers simply do not appear to fit for Faneca - hope he does not end up playing out his career for some chump team that has the cap $$ to meet Faneca's high price.

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 11:27 AM
the market value for troy continues to be set. yesterday the seahawks signed jax safety deon grant for 30 million. i heard it on the radio and cant remember if its for 5 or 6 years. ether way troy is gonna easilly command more.

i know alot of people think troy is gonna take alot less than market value out of the goodness of his heart, but he isnt negotiating the deal and his agent will never have another client again if he inks a low ball deal.

Livinginthe past
03-10-2007, 11:51 AM
I wonder why Tomlin has chosen to highlight these particular players.

If i'm a coach who wants to keep the market value of his player down so he can re-sign him, I don't think I would draw attention to how indispensible they are.

I can't see an actual quote, but saying that your franchise 'can't do without' certain players doesn't seem like such a good idea for team morale.

The only thing I can imagine is that Tomlin is trying to put one or more of them in the shop window for a potential trade.

Steeler fans have to at least be optimistic that if a fair deal is put on the table for Troy, that he will sign it - he seems like that type of guy.

Looking back at the Joey Porter situation you have to wonder why they didnt pay him his bonus and then trade him to the Dolphins (who were obviously very keen judging by the amount of money they have paid him) and then used that draft pick to try and draft Faneca's replacement.

TackleMeBen
03-10-2007, 11:55 AM
6 yrs ..45 million!!!! Damn . I wonder what Big Ben will cost!

he likes money so a lot. he will manipulate the rooneys...lol j/k

fansince'76
03-10-2007, 11:56 AM
I can't see an actual quote, but saying that your franchise 'can't do without' certain players doesn't seem like such a good idea for team morale.

With all due respect, doesn't Belichick saying "there's no QB I'd rather have" about Brady kind of send the exact same message?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/17/AR2007011701653.html

abowens
03-10-2007, 12:37 PM
They had better get Troy resigned while they can get him at Ed Reed type money. The next safety signed - not even big name safety - will probably take a bigger contract than Reed got and Troy's price will go higher!

Livinginthe past
03-10-2007, 12:39 PM
With all due respect, doesn't Belichick saying "there's no QB I'd rather have" about Brady kind of send the exact same message?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/17/AR2007011701653.html

Sure, he does.

But he doesn't offer that type of comment up voluntarily - you have to push him for something like that.

Also, I don't think there is any real danger of Brady being cut or traded anytime soon and no-one of the roster is likely to challenge Brady for the QB starters position.

Its reasonably likely that the Steelers will be without one of those 3 mentioned sometime soon.

NM

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 12:47 PM
I wonder why Tomlin has chosen to highlight these particular players.

If i'm a coach who wants to keep the market value of his player down so he can re-sign him, I don't think I would draw attention to how indispensible they are.

I can't see an actual quote, but saying that your franchise 'can't do without' certain players doesn't seem like such a good idea for team morale.

The only thing I can imagine is that Tomlin is trying to put one or more of them in the shop window for a potential trade.

Steeler fans have to at least be optimistic that if a fair deal is put on the table for Troy, that he will sign it - he seems like that type of guy.

Looking back at the Joey Porter situation you have to wonder why they didnt pay him his bonus and then trade him to the Dolphins (who were obviously very keen judging by the amount of money they have paid him) and then used that draft pick to try and draft Faneca's replacement.dont take tomlins words out of context or you might get confuse them with harris's viepoints he makes in the article:

In Mike Tomlin's first group interview with local print reporters after he became the Steelers' new coach, he made a point to mention three players the team can't do without.

Tomlin said Pro Bowl safety Troy Polamalu and Pro Bowl nose tackle Casey Hampton will thrive in any defense. And he said perennial Pro Bowl guard Alan Faneca is an automatic starter.

Among them, Hampton, Polamalu and Faneca have been voted to 12 Pro Bowls.

By stating the obvious, Tomlin identified three impact players the Steelers can not afford to lose.


clearly the authors opinion and not tomlins words. tomlin simply stated the obvious, which is the steelers have some great players who simply defy scheme. if you listen to or read the transcript of tomlins 1st presser he is saying hampton and troy will be great regardless if theyre in a 3-4 or 4-3. sure he couldve rambled off the names of about 20 steelers players who are no doubt gonna make the team, but thats just not how to conduct a press conference.

theres nothing tomlin can do to inflate, or deflate the market value for our 3 annual pro bowlers. these players reputations precede them and the tape is out there for everybody to see.

as for porter, i thought it woulda been worth the gamble to give him a million and trade him. the only thing i can think is that theyre so close to the cap it wasnt worth the risk being on the books for that extra mil. to me, it seems a high 3rd or low 2nd from some team would be worth it though.

i do take confidence from the fact the rooneys didnt even sweat it though. they seem happy with the picks and players they currently have.

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 12:51 PM
Sure, he does.

But he doesn't offer that type of comment up voluntarily - you have to push him for something like that.

Also, I don't think there is any real danger of Brady being cut or traded anytime soon and no-one of the roster is likely to challenge Brady for the QB starters position.

Its reasonably likely that the Steelers will be without one of those 3 mentioned sometime soon.

NMagain, youre really reaching hard to knock tomlin over something that isnt even there. i think we all understand that you believe belichick is supreme and tomlin is clearly inferior. but in the case of what he said in his initial presser, you are way off base.

fansince'76
03-10-2007, 01:22 PM
Sure, he does.

But he doesn't offer that type of comment up voluntarily - you have to push him for something like that.

Also, I don't think there is any real danger of Brady being cut or traded anytime soon and no-one of the roster is likely to challenge Brady for the QB starters position.

Its reasonably likely that the Steelers will be without one of those 3 mentioned sometime soon.

NM

OK, so the writer of the article makes a statement that is mistakenly attributed to Tomlin about "players the team can't afford to lose" and it's bad for the Steelers' team morale. Belichick is quoted directly about the indispensability of Tom Brady and it has no bearing on the Patriots' team morale. Got it.

Livinginthe past
03-10-2007, 01:29 PM
OK, so the writer of the article makes a statement that is mistakenly attributed to Tomlin about "players the team can't afford to lose" and it's bad for the Steelers' team morale. Belichick is quoted directly about the indispensability of Tom Brady and it has no bearing on the Patriots' team morale. Got it.

I already stated that I couldn't find a direct quote in the text, if you are sure that it is mistakenly attributed then thats fine - maybe some guy who just looks like Tomlin said it.

Like I said, Brady isnt going anywhere soon, so his comments should have a more positive effect on morale than a negative one.

Thats opinion though, of course - I can't recall the last time I spoke face to face with members of either team.

I dont know much about Tomlin and have no need to knock him much less make comparsions with Belichick - i'll leave that to others.

NM

SteelCzar76
03-10-2007, 01:32 PM
Decisions, decisions...

To me, the safe - and smart bet - is to make Troy the highest-paid safety in the league, and to do it before his contract ends and they're forced to use the franchise tag, which they would almost certainly do. They would then run the risk of having to pay even more than they would have had to this year if another, possibly lesser, safety is given more money than Reed next offseason. So that means that Faneca will be gone after this season - I can't see the Steelers paying him over $50 million at this stage of his career and especially if he's going to be a disgruntled player because his favorite coach is gone. As I said in another thread, it is "easier," IMO, to replace a Pro Bowl guard than a Pro Bowler at a skilled position, such as safety in this case.



Exactly. I think it's fair to say that Alan is gone after this season. And that Troy (barring injury) will be made the highest paid safety in the game. Alan has got at least three good seasons left in him. But i don't think the Rooneys even entertain the thought of retaining him at the 'number' that his market value will demand. (If just simply because of his age)

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 01:33 PM
I already stated that I couldn't find a direct quote in the text, if you are sure that it is mistakenly attributed then thats fine - maybe some guy who just looks like Tomlin said it.



NM


"By stating the obvious, Tomlin identified three impact players the Steelers can not afford to lose."

-john harris

fansince'76
03-10-2007, 01:34 PM
I already stated that I couldn't find a direct quote in the text, if you are sure that it is mistakenly attributed then thats fine - maybe some guy who just looks like Tomlin said it.NM

Author's words: "In Mike Tomlin's first group interview with local print reporters after he became the Steelers' new coach, he made a point to mention three players the team can't do without."

Tomlin's words: "Tomlin said Pro Bowl safety Troy Polamalu and Pro Bowl nose tackle Casey Hampton will thrive in any defense. And he said perennial Pro Bowl guard Alan Faneca is an automatic starter."

Author's words: "By stating the obvious, Tomlin identified three impact players the Steelers can not afford to lose."

abowens
03-10-2007, 01:36 PM
I'm pretty new to the forum thing. So forgive me for stepping out of line here. It's obvious that there are fans who post, as well as the moderators, who are terribly picky about what goes where, etc. in these forums. This really has nothing to do with the content of this thread so I'm sure I'll get in trouble. But before I do, I have a question brought about by the banter between Livinginthe Past and Steelers fans in this thread. No offense to Livingin the Past - I'm honestly curious about this...how does a Patriots die hard become a moderator of a Steelers forum? Not that there's anything wrong with that. I've wondered about that since I started visting this site.

fansince'76
03-10-2007, 01:38 PM
This thread will be closed in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 01:45 PM
since litp has obviously twisted this whole article lets put the issue to rest:

The Steelers are unlikely to draft certain styles of players based on whether they continue to run the 3-4 defense or move toward a 4-3.

"The elite players defy scheme," Tomlin said. "Troy Polamalu's going to be an excellent safety, regardless of what defensive scheme he's in. Casey Hampton's going to be a dominant interior defensive lineman, regardless of what scheme he's in. So the elite players defy scheme. We're not going to get enamored with that. What we're going to do is we're going to continue to shape our package to do what our players do and do well. It'll be a constant evolution, just like the players are constantly evolving."



nothing to see here. move along, haters!

SteelCzar76
03-10-2007, 01:47 PM
This thread will be closed in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....


:toofunny: Why is it that i picture the lead nazi with the bald head from 'Raiders of The Lost Ark' sitting at a keyboard laughing diabolicaly as he read your post 76 ? :sofunny:

Livinginthe past
03-10-2007, 01:48 PM
Aha now I see.

I searched the article for direct quotes and couldn't find any.

If thats just the writers take on what was said, then fair enough - I assumed that he based his comments upon things that had been said outside of that particular interview (stuff that wasn't quoted).

I was basically trying to work out Tomlins angle for saying what he did - trying to increase trade value or whatever.

Thats basically it, no foul no drama.

ABowens ' as you can imagine I have addressed this question many times (so much so I should really put it in my sig) - if you really want the inside line give me a PM and i'd be happy to reply (just so we dont get too far off topic on this thread)

Thanks

NM

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 03:22 PM
Aha now I see. finally! :dang:

I searched the article for direct quotes and couldn't find any. there were none. most of us caught that with the 1st read

If thats just the writers take on what was said, then fair enough no ifs about it. it is what it is... - I assumed that he based his comments upon things that had been said outside of that particular interview (stuff that wasn't quoted). you know what they say about those who assume...?

I was basically trying to work out Tomlins angle for saying what he did - trying to increase trade value or whatever. since his direct quotes were easilly found (using the "search feature") and posted, its pretty obvious there was no "angle". just a simple answer to a simple question at a press conference.

Thats basically it, no foul no drama. we have all seen how gross misconceptions can quickly turn to drama. a foul woud be a patfan mod on a steelers board straight up saying: "we dominated tomlin as a viking and we will kick his ass as a steeler", right?

ABowens ' as you can imagine I have addressed this question many times (so much so I should really put it in my sig) - if you really want the inside line give me a PM and i'd be happy to reply (just so we dont get too far off topic on this thread)
a question that may be "addressed" or "replied" to, but never really answered.

Thanks

NMi have no problem with those who critisize and indirectly slam tomlin or try to paint him as inadequate. lets just keep it real.

big difference between debating the cut of porter (a fact) and debating words he has never said that are passed off as fact.

SteelerFanInTX210
03-10-2007, 06:22 PM
Im very concerned about the tightwads in the FO letting both of these guys go. Very Very worried. Stranger things have happened

polamalufan43
03-10-2007, 06:34 PM
Im very concerned about the tightwads in the FO letting both of these guys go. Very Very worried. Stranger things have happened

I agree. I am concerned if it comes down to the FO having to choose between these two guys. They are both very important to the team but I guess it will come down to money, and which side of the ball could use the most help/leadership. Which, depending on who you ask, could be either side.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

GBMelBlount
03-10-2007, 07:06 PM
I don't understand. Everyone one says the Rooney's are cheap and don't over pay. Then why are we always so close to the cap and having such a hard time paying Joey and projecting possible problems with Troy & Faneca and later with Ben?

SteelCzar76
03-10-2007, 07:16 PM
I don't understand. Everyone one says the Rooney's are cheap and don't over pay. Then why are we always so close to the cap and having such a hard time paying Joey and projecting possible problems with Troy & Faneca and later with Ben?



Because we have a roster full of well paid 'marginal' players. (ie: of average or little actual pro level talent)

Livinginthe past
03-10-2007, 07:36 PM
I don't understand. Everyone one says the Rooney's are cheap and don't over pay. Then why are we always so close to the cap and having such a hard time paying Joey and projecting possible problems with Troy & Faneca and later with Ben?

I think its a common misconception that the Steelers are cheap in terms of spending to the salary - they have a similar theory to roster depth as the Patriots - rather than focussing the majority of the salary cap in the front line they try to share it around.

This means that the guys stepping into positions because of injuries should not, theoretically cause too much of a drop off in production.

Its funny because some of the people that will defend the Steelers will have been the ones who labelled Robert Kraft and the Patriots 'cheap' aswell...well, before they became the Redskins anyways :wink02:

Subjects like the state of the playing surface (hold on - we like playing in a mudbath - thats real football), the unwillingness to give Cowher his big pay day (which has no salary cap implications), the release of Joey Porter without his bonus (who needs draft picks anyway) give the impression that the Rooney's can be pretty thrifty at times.

Having said all of this, the Steelers success during the salary cap era means they probably have a fairly good idea what they are doing!

NM

GBMelBlount
03-10-2007, 08:02 PM
I think its a common misconception that the Steelers are cheap in terms of spending to the salary - they have a similar theory to roster depth as the Patriots - rather than focussing the majority of the salary cap in the front line they try to share it around.

This means that the guys stepping into positions because of injuries should not, theoretically cause too much of a drop off in production.

Its funny because some of the people that will defend the Steelers will have been the ones who labelled Robert Kraft and the Patriots 'cheap' aswell...well, before they became the Redskins anyways :wink02:

Subjects like the state of the playing surface (hold on - we like playing in a mudbath - thats real football), the unwillingness to give Cowher his big pay day (which has no salary cap implications), the release of Joey Porter without his bonus (who needs draft picks anyway) give the impression that the Rooney's can be pretty thrifty at times.

Having said all of this, the Steelers success during the salary cap era means they probably have a fairly good idea what they are doing!

NM

If the end justify the means, the steelers have done well. Do you think we have alot of mediocre players that we pay well as was just posted? I don't know, I would hope we have less top paid stars so we can afford as many above average players as possible. Do you think that is the case? :tt02:

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 08:11 PM
I don't understand. Everyone one says the Rooney's are cheap and don't over pay. Then why are we always so close to the cap and having such a hard time paying Joey and projecting possible problems with Troy & Faneca and later with Ben?
hers a great link courtesy of az steelers which talks about all thing salary cap related:

http://www.steelersalarycap.com/articles/rooneysNOTcheap.htm

Rooneys cheap? I say NO.

Written by steelersalarycap March 3, 2007



I have often heard complaints about the Rooneys being cheap. They don?t sign free agents. They don?t use big signing bonuses. They don?t use all the salary cap rules to maximize the amount they can pay players. Well, I have to disagree, and a little research seems to say I am right.



First, total payroll is the actual amount the team spends in a given year ? not salary cap values. For example, in 2005 the Steelers signed Hines Ward to a $27.5 million contract, which included a $9 million signing bonus. This signing bonus was split - $5 million in 2005 and $4 million in 2006. For salary cap values, those signing bonuses were prorated over the length of the contract; however, for payroll it was not. Ward?s 2005 salary cap value was $2,168,960. In real money, Ward received a total of $5,668,960 - $5 million signing bonus, $665,000 base salary, and $3,960 workout bonus.



Most arguments I have heard use the Redskins as an example. The argument says the Redskins are able to sign free agents each year to large contracts. Therefore, I compared the Steelers total payroll to the Redskins total payroll.



I used the USA Today?s NFL player database for all values below.



TEAM
TOTAL PAYROLL
RANK (yearly)
Year

Pittsburgh Steelers
$ 84,225,127
10
2005

Pittsburgh Steelers
$ 77,955,021
22
2004

Pittsburgh Steelers
$ 63,571,735
30
2003

Pittsburgh Steelers
$ 85,283,461
1
2002

Pittsburgh Steelers
$ 77,711,029
8
2001

Pittsburgh Steelers
$ 58,464,200
2
2000

TOTAL
$447,210,573






TEAM
TOTAL PAYROLL
RANK (yearly)
Year

Washington Redskins
$ 66,108,711
30
2005

Bitmap
Washington Redskins


$ 117,962,286
1
2004

Washington Redskins
$ 84,826,189
6
2003

Washington Redskins
$ 61,149,117
20
2002

Washington Redskins
$ 56,017,166
27
2001

Washington Redskins
$ 53,878,400
19
2000

TOTAL
$439,941,869






Therefore, according to the USA Today, the Steelers have spent more in total payroll than the Redskins between 2000-2005.

Livinginthe past
03-10-2007, 08:26 PM
If the end justify the means, the steelers have done well. Do you think we have alot of mediocre players that we pay well as was just posted? I don't know, I would hope we have less top paid stars so we can afford as many above average players as possible. Do you think that is the case? :tt02:

Its an opinion call really.

I think the Steelers have had quite a few players of mediocre talent in their 53 - the thing was they all knew what their role was and were capable of fulfilling it.

Other franchises focus alot of the salary cap on the starting 22 - and the other 31 get whats left over.

This latter strategy keeps fans happy in the off season because their team is active in free agency and is willing to dish out large contracts to tie up the 'faces of the franchise'.

Its only once you are 12 games into a 16 game season and your starters are limping off the field you realise how important quality depth, not just depth, is to a teams chances of making the postseason.

The Steelers do have their star players for sure (Polamalu, Ben, Fast Willie,Hines) - they wouldn't be so successful if they only had a team full of solid players - but the key is cap management and trying to avoid scenarios where all your big guys want paying in the same year.

The draft is obviously huge (with a nod to the compensatory picks thread in the NFL forum) and the Steelers have done better than most here - quality players wont ever be as cheap as they are when you get them on a rookie deal for the first 5/6 years.

NM

ChronoCross
03-10-2007, 08:33 PM
hers a great link courtesy of az steelers which talks about all thing salary cap related:

http://www.steelersalarycap.com/articles/rooneysNOTcheap.htm

Steelers spread there money out thru the team and for quality depth thru out the team. Redskins live and Die in FA and have hardly to even no draft picks each year now. There is no reason to compare the two. Each work FA and Draft different. Redskins keep players for about 2 years then have them ether restructure there contract are get cut to save money, and re work the bonuses the following year to stretch them out over several years more against there cap. Redskins waste money each year and do not even give there team a chance to geil before it changes again. Two different teams, two different spending methods, nether a like what so ever. Redskins has a very crappy FO spending on a few, were we spend all around.

GBMelBlount
03-10-2007, 08:43 PM
Tony/Living - thanks. I guess there are topp 22 vs all 53 strategies that vary. No team knows where they are going to be injury wise 6 or 12 games into the season. I guess it is to some degree a crapshoot and varies by the FA/draft strategy.

Living, I respect what the patriots have done, winning year after year with constantly changing personnel, but I hope some day you will change that damn patriots helmut icon! Didn't they plug in a wide receiver at cornerback and win 35-7 or something? unbelievable. I pray that Tomlin is imparted with some of the gift that the patriots head coach has.

GBMelBlount
03-10-2007, 08:46 PM
Steelers spread there money out thru the team and for quality depth thru out the team. Redskins live and Die in FA and have hardly to even no draft picks each year now. There is no reason to compare the two. Each work FA and Draft different. Redskins keep players for about 2 years then have them ether restructure there contract are get cut to save money, and re work the bonuses the following year to stretch them out over several years more against there cap. Redskins waste money each year and do not even give there team a chance to geil before it changes again. Two different teams, two different spending methods, nether a like what so ever. Redskins has a very crappy FO spending on a few, were we spend all around.


Chrono, the logic and results are so obvious and so consistently that way that it is hard to believe there are teams that do the Skins strategy year after year!:tt02:

tony hipchest
03-10-2007, 08:50 PM
Steelers spread there money out thru the team and for quality depth thru out the team. Redskins live and Die in FA and have hardly to even no draft picks each year now. There is no reason to compare the two. Each work FA and Draft different. Redskins keep players for about 2 years then have them ether restructure there contract are get cut to save money, and re work the bonuses the following year to stretch them out over several years more against there cap. Redskins waste money each year and do not even give there team a chance to geil before it changes again. Two different teams, two different spending methods, nether a like what so ever. Redskins has a very crappy FO spending on a few, were we spend all around.

uhhhh....okay.

but the point was about the perception that the rooneys are "cheap", and comparing their spendings over the past 5 years to the redskins, who are perceived to be the highest spenders in the league.

point still stands. the rooneys are no cheaper than any other team in the nfl. its just a common misconception.

verks36
03-10-2007, 08:51 PM
what if we signed troy to a big contract and then franshcise taged faneca for one more good year out of him then let him go

noto45
03-10-2007, 08:58 PM
lets be realistic we cant sign them both so I am guessing Faneca goes and plays somewhere else...

Livinginthe past
03-10-2007, 08:59 PM
Tony/Living - thanks. I guess there are topp 22 vs all 53 strategies that vary. No team knows where they are going to be injury wise 6 or 12 games into the season. I guess it is to some degree a crapshoot and varies by the FA/draft strategy.

Living, I respect what the patriots have done, winning year after year with constantly changing personnel, but I hope some day you will change that damn patriots helmut icon! Didn't they plug in a wide receiver at cornerback and win 35-7 or something? unbelievable. I pray that Tomlin is imparted with some of the gift that the patriots head coach has.

Hey - you're very welcome :cheers:

Thanks for the 'Patriot-props' - they have been awesome this decade (sorry about the helmet :wink02:) - the WR who plugged in at CB was Troy Brown - he has been our chief punt returner for a long time too - a real 'throwback' type player.

He was also the guy who stripped Marlon McCree to save the game in the playoffs this year against San Diego.

The way I see it, the Patriots are very much built on the foundations laid by the Steelers and they've had the good fortune to have a HOF HC and a 6th round HOF QB fall into their laps.

Going back to the original point - i'd agree that football can be a 'crapshoot' as you say - its the better teams (like the Steelers) who have a way of loading the dice in their favor.

steelerbackr4life
03-10-2007, 09:02 PM
At the risk of getting back on topic and talking about Faneca and Troy. As long as the Steelers are going to continue to be a ball control run oriented offense. Lets assume Faneca returns to his previous form and is the dominate force he always has been especially pulling on a trap play. It would be hard for the Steelers to just let him walk.

Look for them if Faneca is resigned for a high price to Offer Troy a huge deal with alot of stipulations regarding his health. Least us not forget his propensity for head injuries. This will affect all negotiations he may have. Not just with the Rooneys but with other owners in the league. Thus his rate that everyone assumes is going to be sky high (and if he stays healthy it should be) may not be as high as everyone is forecasting.

The Duke
03-10-2007, 09:08 PM
So Faneca can be franchise tagged next year and Troy up for a probably big contract

GBMelBlount
03-10-2007, 09:18 PM
At the risk of getting back on topic and talking about Faneca and Troy. As long as the Steelers are going to continue to be a ball control run oriented offense. Lets assume Faneca returns to his previous form and is the dominate force he always has been especially pulling on a trap play. It would be hard for the Steelers to just let him walk.

Look for them if Faneca is resigned for a high price to Offer Troy a huge deal with alot of stipulations regarding his health. Least us not forget his propensity for head injuries. This will affect all negotiations he may have. Not just with the Rooneys but with other owners in the league. Thus his rate that everyone assumes is going to be sky high (and if he stays healthy it should be) may not be as high as everyone is forecasting.

If Ben doesn't shape up, we had better be a ball control, running team. As far as Troy, If we don't sign him (with all his injuries & concussions) I guarantee you that unless something major happens to him this year, he could get a contract with another team that makes Joey & Randle el's contracts pale in comparison. Right or wrong, that is a fact

steelerbackr4life
03-10-2007, 09:32 PM
Yes that is a definite possibility. I was just throwing out the other scenario as another way this could turn that I didnt see mentioned before in this thread.

fansince'76
03-10-2007, 09:44 PM
Look for them if Faneca is resigned for a high price to Offer Troy a huge deal with alot of stipulations regarding his health.

So far, Troy has suited up for 61 of a maximum possible 64 games in his four year career. I think he'll need to miss significant playing time before a "health clause" will ever fly.

GBMelBlount
03-10-2007, 10:17 PM
At the risk of getting back on topic and talking about Faneca and Troy. As long as the Steelers are going to continue to be a ball control run oriented offense. Lets assume Faneca returns to his previous form and is the dominate force he always has been especially pulling on a trap play. It would be hard for the Steelers to just let him walk.

Look for them if Faneca is resigned for a high price to Offer Troy a huge deal with alot of stipulations regarding his health. Least us not forget his propensity for head injuries. This will affect all negotiations he may have. Not just with the Rooneys but with other owners in the league. Thus his rate that everyone assumes is going to be sky high (and if he stays healthy it should be) may not be as high as everyone is forecasting.

You may be right on Faneca, with our "thinness" on o-line he may be the the stalwart we need the next few years. Faneca may be as indispensable over the SHORT TERM as Troy!

ben2hines=6
03-10-2007, 11:16 PM
i really cant see us just letting faneca go, were a ball controll offense and we need him on the offense just as much as we need troy on defense....i mean yea him and troy are both going to demand huge money but thats why we dont get huge free agents, we have to sign people like them....now we just signed aaron smith and back loaded his contract, what makes ya think they're not looking to do the same with fancea?

Steeldude
03-11-2007, 06:55 AM
they will probably let faneca walk because of his age.

TheManOfSteel
03-11-2007, 10:21 AM
i really cant see us just letting faneca go,



I don't see it either. We need him if we want Ben and Willie to succeed. He has been are best lineman for years and hopefully years to come.:banana:

The Duke
03-11-2007, 12:39 PM
As long a Faneca proves that he should stay, playing better than last season, we should keep him.

lilyoder6
03-11-2007, 01:02 PM
i think as well that faneca will stay. he always proves that he is one of the best guards in the games..

Blitzburgh
03-11-2007, 04:38 PM
Considering the money both will ask for I would make every attempt to get value for them NOW!

If I had to keep one ... .it would be Polamalu, but I wouldn't sell the farm for 'em. The man has serious tackling issues and is average against the pass/excellent against the run.

Atlanta Dan
03-11-2007, 05:32 PM
i really cant see us just letting faneca go, were a ball controll offense and we need him on the offense just as much as we need troy on defense....i mean yea him and troy are both going to demand huge money but thats why we dont get huge free agents, we have to sign people like them....now we just signed aaron smith and back loaded his contract, what makes ya think they're not looking to do the same with fancea?

It's a question of budgeting. In the mid-90s the Steelers had to choose between Chad Brown, who was entering his prime, and Greg Lloyd, their most dominant defender after Woodson tore up his knee.

It was not a matter of Brown not being a rock on defense; they simply could not afford to sign both. The Steelers signed Lloyd, which was a legitimate choice; unfortunately he blew out his knee in the first game of the '96 season and effectively ended his career.

A similar choice between Troy and Faneca is coming up; you can't afford to order the whole menu.

ChronoCross
03-11-2007, 06:52 PM
As long a Faneca proves that he should stay, playing better than last season, we should keep him.

Ask the Ravens who the best linemen was on are team this last season. Both games they, I mean there entire defense agreed that faneca was the spot they could not get by. Linemen that need to improve are be gone is smith and starks, both got blown up every game. Everyone knows it was a bad season and most are writing it off and hoping for majority of the bad play will be gone this coming season, and we will see members of the team improve this coming year with the hunger, heart and motivation put back into the team.

GBMelBlount
03-11-2007, 07:34 PM
Ask the Ravens who the best linemen was on are team this last season. Both games they, I mean there entire defense agreed that faneca was the spot they could not get by. Linemen that need to improve are be gone is smith and starks, both got blown up every game. Everyone knows it was a bad season and most are writing it off and hoping for majority of the bad play will be gone this coming season, and we will see members of the team improve this coming year with the hunger, heart and motivation put back into the team.

Let's hope it was superbowl hangover. Also, IMO I don't feel I saw the motivation and fire from Cowher like previous years.

ChronoCross
03-11-2007, 07:55 PM
Let's hope it was superbowl hangover. Also, IMO I don't feel I saw the motivation and fire from Cowher like previous years.

Ya I seen that to.. There was such a lack in coaching that it did not help matters ether. You would have to tie a sponge and wet it down to cowhers chin just to see any spit.

The Duke
03-11-2007, 08:39 PM
Ya I seen that to.. There was such a lack in coaching that it did not help matters ether. You would have to tie a sponge and wet it down to cowhers chin just to see any spit.

True. Makes me wonder does Tomlin have a chin? :sofunny:

ChronoCross
03-11-2007, 08:43 PM
True. Makes me wonder does Tomlin have a chin? :sofunny:

Haha. I think we have to come up with something new for Tomlin. I just have not figured out what we will nick name Tomlin yet. Guess we have to wait and see how he jumps down the players throats and how he acts when a player messes up on the field. Heck who knows but the media and fans will come up with something before the 5 game of the season I am sure of..

abgroove
03-12-2007, 04:39 AM
The biggest issue is to sign Troy. Break the bank, if you have to.

wardswarriors86
03-12-2007, 10:56 AM
I don't see this as a matter of the Steelers being cheap. The Steelers have to deal with the salary cap just like every other team. While they might want to keep both, I am sure they do, if they keep both, they are not going to have enough room under the cap for the rest of the roster to have the quality necessary to win. The front office has to weigh the need to win now with the long-term viability of the team. So if it comes down to an either/or scenario, it makes the most sense to keep the younger player. Plus, guards are easy to replace than safeties, which is NOT a knock on Faneca, nor is it a knock on the offensive line.

SteelCityPride
03-12-2007, 12:22 PM
I don't see it liekly for the team to keep both. I do however think a lot of people are underestimating the need for great players amongst our offensive line. When you look at the success we have had into the past with running the ball, that goes away when you start compromising the integrity of the line with average or even above average players. As the old saying goes, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. If everyone likes to see that running game prosper and FWP be able to gain many more thousand yard seasons they need to come up with a feasible replacement if they do lose Faneca.

I am definately not suggesting dumping Polamalu, cuz he is one man that holds no comparisson in the NFL. It is a shame this is going to play out as a picking and choosing game. It was stated previously in the thread that Faneca liked Grimm who went to Arizona, I could definately see that happening.

But anyways, keep in mind that the offensive line, though it is not one of the skill positions, is the position that requires the most skill in the NFL when it comes down to the nitty gritty. The QB position is the only position that may hold a candle to the complexity of the game that the offensive line is to uphold.

wardswarriors86
03-12-2007, 02:02 PM
Granted, the ability to control the line of scrimmage is key to winning consistently in the NFL. I am not debating that point. I believe that the offensive line is the most important part of a football team. The Baltimore games prove that point rather convincingly. But with the cap, hard choices have to be made. My point is that if it is a choice between Faneca and Polamalu, IMO, they should lock up Polamalu. My choice is NOT based on the opinion that the offensive line is not important but that Faneca is older, and it is easier to replace and develop an offensive lineman than it is a safety. The scheme can hide an average lineman a lot easier than an average safety. I wish they could keep both and hope that they will be able to find a way to do that. But IF they have to make a choice, my vote goes to Polamalu, assuming health is not an issue.

SteelCityPride
03-12-2007, 02:04 PM
I was not singling out you, was just bringing a general point to the board. I respect your opinions and mostly agree with what you have said. I would def offer money to Polamalu first also, but I think a lot of people are just brushing off Faneca too quickly....

polamalufan43
03-12-2007, 02:33 PM
True. Makes me wonder does Tomlin have a chin? :sofunny:

I doubt it, he seems more like a blazing stare guy, but I'm sure he'll try to, but add his own spin to it, lol.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

X-Terminator
03-12-2007, 05:22 PM
I was not singling out you, was just bringing a general point to the board. I respect your opinions and mostly agree with what you have said. I would def offer money to Polamalu first also, but I think a lot of people are just brushing off Faneca too quickly....

There are potentially 50 million reasons why they're doing that...

tony hipchest
03-12-2007, 05:25 PM
i think alot of those vehemently in favor of faneca staying are forgetting one major point. its up to FANECA. he may want to leave. we cant force him to stay for less money than what he may find on the open market.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-12-2007, 05:48 PM
True. Makes me wonder does Tomlin have a chin? :sofunny:

I believe the League has decided that we went over our chin total during the last 15 years ...by NFL rules, we should be given a compensatory chin allotment next year.

tony hipchest
03-12-2007, 06:00 PM
I believe the League has decided that we went over our chin total during the last 15 years ...by NFL rules, we should be given a compensatory chin allotment next year.if cowher had a huge nose do you think we would get a compensetory "pick"?

paw-n-maul-u
03-12-2007, 06:26 PM
how much would faneca bring in return for a trade sayyyyy ... this season??? If hes going to be gone, we might as well not *****foot around and get him on the move. An extra round 1 pick or ATLEAST a couple more day 1 picks would be very nice. lets see, the bills got rid of mcgahee for two thirds and a seventh? ... i think faneca would bring about a first and a secound round pick. actually. lets just ship him to arizona now to play fireman with grimm and whiz while we can still get the most out of him.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-12-2007, 06:35 PM
if cowher had a huge nose do you think we would get a compensetory "pick"?

only if we "dump" a player like Davenport.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-12-2007, 06:40 PM
if cowher had a huge nose do you think we would get a compensetory "pick"?

...or we could try and get "Booger" McFarland.

tony hipchest
03-12-2007, 06:49 PM
how much would faneca bring in return for a trade sayyyyy ... this season??? If hes going to be gone, we might as well not *****foot around and get him on the move. An extra round 1 pick or ATLEAST a couple more day 1 picks would be very nice. lets see, the bills got rid of mcgahee for two thirds and a seventh? ... i think faneca would bring about a first and a secound round pick. actually. lets just ship him to arizona now to play fireman with grimm and whiz while we can still get the most out of him.thats a very good question that i wish was more open for discussion. i posted a poll and the concensus was that i was pretty much crazy for suggesting the idea.

i dont think we would lose too much if we could turn faneca into a player like j. thomas or l. brown. my point has always been if d. branch is worth a 1st rounder, theres no telling what faneca is worth. i do know his market value next year could easilly be about 8-9 mil/year with 25-30 guaranteed.

geo1963
03-12-2007, 10:18 PM
The problem I have with trading Faneca now is I've always felt the number one priority with the Steelers is to win championships, and I feel with him, we still have the talent to do so. With him.....I don't see it happening, yeah the prospect of picking up a few picks is intriguing, but picks are not guarantees, He is..no way can you count on the future. As far as cap concerns go, again it's a fair argument, but grooming someone for a year now to take his place that is already somewhat proven seems to be the more logical approach while maintaining the championship goal..I just don't agree with trading quality pro bowl players away because we won't be able to sign them in a year. They're tough to come by