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DACEB
03-14-2007, 09:26 AM
I was reading on another forum where the Steelers are looking to draft a DE at 15, Carriker, and move Keisel to OLB. I found this very interesting. I like the idea assuming Keisel can lose the weight he gained to play DE, which I think he could without problem. I believe he has the athletism to play OLB, and would provide immediate help and depth to the position. This would also allow the defense to switch from 3-4 to 4-3 without changing personell on the field.
6'5" 265-275lb. OLB I like the sound of that, who needs A. Spencer!
From what I understand Keisel runs a 4.6-4.7 40!

You can go from this

3-4 look
DE - Adam Carriker
DT - Casey Hampton
DE - Aaron Smith

OLB - Brett Keisel
MLB - James Farrior
MLB - Larry Foote
OLB - Clark Haggans

to this

4-3 look
DE - Adam Carriker
DT - Casey Hampton
DT - Aaron Smith
DE - Brett Keisel

OLB - James Farrior
MLB - Larry Foote
OLB - Clark Haggans

without changing any personnel on the field.

Well, what do you think?

ajs8207
03-14-2007, 09:31 AM
Which forum?

Jeremy
03-14-2007, 09:33 AM
Farrior has played the middle before when he was with the Jets.

I still think you're going to see some kind of 3-3-1 hybrid scheme next season with a DE/OLB combo on the field.

ajs8207
03-14-2007, 09:35 AM
Farrior has played the middle before when he was with the Jets.

I still think you're going to see some kind of 3-3-1 hybrid scheme next season with a DE/OLB combo on the field.

Do you mean there will be one guy on the field who will play DE at times and OLB at times?

DACEB
03-14-2007, 09:56 AM
Which forum?

FootballsFuture.com Steelers forum

83-Steelers-43
03-14-2007, 10:26 AM
Gradual change will occur in my opinion. Stick with the 3-4 this season while also mixing in a little 4-3. Eventually this team will be a 4-3, but not this season in my opinion.

Steeldude
03-14-2007, 10:28 AM
You can go from this

3-4 look
DE - Adam Carriker
DT - Casey Hampton
DE - Aaron Smith

OLB - Brett Keisel
MLB - James Farrior
MLB - Larry Foote
OLB - Clark Haggans

to this

4-3 look
DE - Adam Carriker
DT - Casey Hampton
DT - Aaron Smith
DE - Brett Keisel

OLB - James Farrior
MLB - Larry Foote
OLB - Clark Haggans

without changing any personnel on the field.

Well, what do you think?

in a 3-4 i would rather have harrison at OLB. keisel will need to lose some weight to play OLB.

in the 4-3 i would rather have harrison over foote. foote is too soft to be a lone MLB.

tony hipchest
03-14-2007, 10:30 AM
i definitely like the thought of a young defensive rookie on the front 7 getting ALOT of playing time. not to be greedy but im already expecting our rookie defender in this area to win the defensive ROTY award. perhaps its a 2nd round lb steal like demeco ryans or kendrell bell. matching a player like that with a player like carriker would be nice.

it would be nice to see keisel drop some of the weight cause he could play a little more on special teams where he cut his tooth into the nfl. that could give us a few snaps with
smith and a rookie like carriker on the ends and hoke and hampton in the middle (which would probably be good for known running downs but not as effective on downs where we wanna get after the qb.)

verks36
03-14-2007, 11:32 AM
in a 3-4 i would rather have harrison at OLB. keisel will need to lose some weight to play OLB.

in the 4-3 i would rather have harrison over foote. foote is too soft to be a lone MLB.

Ya thats exactly what i was thinking. Harrison is one hell of a backer, i dont know why no one is talking about him. They already announced that he is going to take porters spot. Plus why do we have to swictch to the 4-3. I know Tomlin like to use the 4-3 but with the 3-4 steelers are always near the top in run deffense hopefully if he can sure up the secondary we would be fine

Black@Gold Forever32
03-14-2007, 11:34 AM
I was reading on another forum where the Steelers are looking to draft a DE at 15, Carriker, and move Keisel to OLB. I found this very interesting. I like the idea assuming Keisel can lose the weight he gained to play DE, which I think he could without problem. I believe he has the athletism to play OLB, and would provide immediate help and depth to the position. This would also allow the defense to switch from 3-4 to 4-3 without changing personell on the field.
6'5" 265-275lb. OLB I like the sound of that, who needs A. Spencer!
From what I understand Keisel runs a 4.6-4.7 40!

You can go from this

3-4 look
DE - Adam Carriker
DT - Casey Hampton
DE - Aaron Smith

OLB - Brett Keisel
MLB - James Farrior
MLB - Larry Foote
OLB - Clark Haggans

to this

4-3 look
DE - Adam Carriker
DT - Casey Hampton
DT - Aaron Smith
DE - Brett Keisel

OLB - James Farrior
MLB - Larry Foote
OLB - Clark Haggans

without changing any personnel on the field.



Well, what do you think?

Well I do like Adam Carriker and I do think Keisel could play OLB with some weight loss. So I wouldn't be against this idea. But I'm a big Anthony Spencer fan. I watched him play alot the past couple seasons. Since I live only 3 hours from Purdue. I know he has stated that he doesn't want to play OLB in the NFL but I have heard that before from other former college DE who didn't want to switch to OLB.

Hell Carriker at 15 and Spencer falls to the Steelers in the 2nd round and that would be a sweet first two rounds.

DACEB
03-14-2007, 11:49 AM
I really like this idea. I think Keisel has the speed and athleticism to play OLB. He was recruited to play basketball in college. Losing 15-20lbs is not that big a deal. He is the type of player that is willing to do anything for the team. I believe he would flourish at that position just like Vrabel, A. Thomas, Merriman.

I would hope coach Tomlin is open to keeping the 3-4. I would hope he is picking the brain of a mastermind like coach Lebeau, and expanding his knowledge on the defensive side.

OneForTheToe
03-14-2007, 12:09 PM
Well, Keisel was a bit lighter when he played special teams. Honestly though, not sure I see him as a linebacker. Count me as a Keisel supporter (thought he had a good year). Still, it might be a bit much to ask him to cover a TE or RB out of the backfield.

Here is the test: Is he faster than Kevin Greene?:wink02:

DACEB
03-14-2007, 12:13 PM
Hell Carriker at 15 and Spencer falls to the Steelers in the 2nd round and that would be a sweet first two rounds.

I have stated before in draft central that exact scenerio, that would be sweet. Keisel is a proven NFL player though. With the experience he has now, that gives him a big edge.

As far as Harrison goes, he has not proven himself over the course of a full season. He does not have the prototype 3-4 OLB frame, 6'3"-4"-5" 250-270lbs. and he is limited in coverage. Don't get me wrong I like Harrison, but he hasn't proven himself yet the way Keisel and Foote have.

DACEB
03-14-2007, 12:35 PM
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, August 29, 2005

Keisel is the backup to Aaron Smith, a Pro Bowler, and he is capable of playing either end position. In a pinch, the multi-dimensional veteran can set up at outside linebacker, a position that lacks experienced depth for the Steelers.

"He is probably the best athlete on the defensive line," starting defensive end Kimo von Oelhoffen said of Keisel, who went stride for stride with linebacker Larry Foote in a 60-yard dash this spring. "He has a great motor, and he can start for any team in the NFL. This guy can pretty much do it all. You should see him on that basketball court, he's dunking, doing 360s, the whole thing."

It wasn't so long ago that Keisel was the talk of Wyoming for his prowess in basketball and football. He was a candidate for the McDonald's All-American team in hoops and was the Gatorade Player of the Year in Wyoming in football and basketball.

Life isn't so bad with the Steelers these days, either. Keisel, 6-foot-5, 285 pounds, continues to open eyes at training camp with his speed (4.6 seconds in the 40-yard dash), lightning-quick first step and all-out athleticism.


That is not the complete article and it is from 2005, but take off 15-20lbs and I think he is plenty fast and athletic enough.

Jeremy
03-14-2007, 12:46 PM
Do you mean there will be one guy on the field who will play DE at times and OLB at times?

Yes. It makes sense really. It helps cut down on substitution and makes the offense guess where he's coming from. He can play in the 3 point stance on running downs or up on passing downs. He could even drop into coverage from the down position.

Like I said before, 3-4 or 4-3 is becoming less important in the NFL as offenses get more creative. Defenses like the 3-3-5 of WVU or the 3-3-1 hybrid of San Diego will become more common as time waers on.

ARKIESTEEL
03-14-2007, 01:18 PM
Yes. It makes sense really. It helps cut down on substitution and makes the offense guess where he's coming from. He can play in the 3 point stance on running downs or up on passing downs. He could even drop into coverage from the down position.

Like I said before, 3-4 or 4-3 is becoming less important in the NFL as offenses get more creative. Defenses like the 3-3-5 of WVU or the 3-3-1 hybrid of San Diego will become more common as time waers on.



This is not alot differnt than what we have been doing. Dont we drop of one of the 3 down lineman back in a pass/zone every now and then.

Jeremy
03-14-2007, 01:28 PM
This is not alot differnt than what we have been doing. Dont we drop of one of the 3 down lineman back in a pass/zone every now and then.

Yes we do. It's not a whole lot different except for the look it gives the offense. You can do some different things with a more athletic player like Jamaal Anderson of Arkansas. With Anerson and Kiesel as the possible ends, we can be more creative with our blitz packages and create some good pressure on the QB.

ARKIESTEEL
03-14-2007, 01:46 PM
Could James Harrison not come in a line up a DE every now and then as well as OLB just to mess with the Offense. I think Brett has all the stuff to pull this off. I like the thought of 4 down lineman if Casey and Hoke filling the middle which I think they could very nice. I think you might could see Casey getting after the QB a little more with Hoke at his side and the O - Line needing to worry about who else is blitzing like Troy or one of the LB.



Could be a mean combo:tt02:

Jeremy
03-14-2007, 01:53 PM
Could James Harrison not come in a line up a DE every now and then as well as OLB just to mess with the Offense. I think Brett has all the stuff to pull this off. I like the thought of 4 down lineman if Casey and Hoke filling the middle which I think they could very nice. I think you might could see Casey getting after the QB a little more with Hoke at his side and the O - Line needing to worry about who else is blitzing like Troy or one of the LB.



Could be a mean combo:tt02:


Which is a great reason to go to a four man front. With a good four man front, you can get pressure on the quaterback without having to bring the linebackers on every play.

Livinginthe past
03-14-2007, 06:11 PM
Its possible that a DE in the 4-3 could be well suited to the 3-4 (i've often thought how great Dwight Freeney would be as an OLB).

The major sticking point, as I see it, is that you have a 3-4 DE (who by definition tend to be pretty big guys - think Richard Seymour, Ty Warren for the Patriots) he will more than likely translate to a DT in the 4-3 (thats if he is even talented enough to make this move - not many are).

You have Carricker playing DE in both formations - I can't imagine his skills would translate (or any players for that matter, but I could be wrong) from 'immovable object' to 'unstoppable force' that easy.

If there are any players doing this in the NFL I would be very surprised (but I have also been surprised many times!) let alone a rookie.

4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB is fine, but I think the 4-3 DE wont work at DE in the 3-4 or vice versa.

NM

tony hipchest
03-14-2007, 06:28 PM
going from a 3-4 to a 4-3 exclusivley isnt as easy as adding one or subtracting another player, for sure. BUT when mixed with the zone blitz scheme i can see alot of new and creative packages.

i gotta think that tomlin broght some very innovative, well thought out, ideas to the table that convinced the rooneys to lean in his direction when hiring a new head coach.

retaining lebeau shows a rapid transition will not be expected.

as has been suggested, just adding a blue chip rookie DE and LB to the mix can give the potential and flexibility to do just about anything any other team is doing on defense.

GBMelBlount
03-14-2007, 09:32 PM
Its possible that a DE in the 4-3 could be well suited to the 3-4 (i've often thought how great Dwight Freeney would be as an OLB).

The major sticking point, as I see it, is that you have a 3-4 DE (who by definition tend to be pretty big guys - think Richard Seymour, Ty Warren for the Patriots) he will more than likely translate to a DT in the 4-3 (thats if he is even talented enough to make this move - not many are).

You have Carricker playing DE in both formations - I can't imagine his skills would translate (or any players for that matter, but I could be wrong) from 'immovable object' to 'unstoppable force' that easy.

If there are any players doing this in the NFL I would be very surprised (but I have also been surprised many times!) let alone a rookie.

4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB is fine, but I think the 4-3 DE wont work at DE in the 3-4 or vice versa.

NM


4-3 DE is a run stopper & pass rusher, 3-4 DE holds the line and the run (usually bigger) right? Is there a freak that fits both?

SteelCzar76
03-14-2007, 09:37 PM
4-3 DE is a run stopper & pass rusher, 3-4 DE holds the line and the run (usually bigger) right? Is there a freak that fits both?


Adam Carriker. But IMO Jamaal Anderson of Arkansas has the frame to 'fill out' even more,.. along with exceptional athletic ability and strength.

TheManOfSteel
03-14-2007, 10:35 PM
I really would like to see Carrilker on the roster of 07.

NV STEELERS 723
03-14-2007, 11:26 PM
going from a 3-4 to a 4-3 exclusivley isnt as easy as adding one or subtracting another player, for sure. BUT when mixed with the zone blitz scheme i can see alot of new and creative packages.

i gotta think that tomlin broght some very innovative, well thought out, ideas to the table that convinced the rooneys to lean in his direction when hiring a new head coach.

retaining lebeau shows a rapid transition will not be expected.

as has been suggested, just adding a blue chip rookie DE and LB to the mix can give the potential and flexibility to do just about anything any other team is doing on defense.

Good points Tony....one of the first things Tomlin said is he will be retaining Coach LeBeau.....that also told me he evaluated his current players, and did not want to change right away....yes... if we draft a stud at LB or DE here comes the 4-3....and the last time I remember we won 4 SB's w/ that Defense..... But is Jack Lambert available to play MLB right now ?:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I wish...

When I was a skinny OLB in HS we played a "6-2".......just thought I'd throw that in!

Livinginthe past
03-15-2007, 12:22 AM
4-3 DE is a run stopper & pass rusher, 3-4 DE holds the line and the run (usually bigger) right? Is there a freak that fits both?

I can't think of a current pro who is able to do both.

Its not just the physical talents required, but the mental agility aswell - its hard enough to make the step up to being a DE in either formation at pro-level without having to learn both.

If they could draft someone with that potential it would be a steal.

ARKIESTEEL
03-15-2007, 08:52 AM
Which the 3-4 or the 4-3 is better for the blitz coming from the safety and CB position?

Or in some hybird form could we see Troy line up to rush the QB from an OLB/DE spot, and the DE or OLB fall back into a zone or man cover. Just a thought.


I would also like them once to blitz both a safety and a corner at the same time, it might leave things a little open but the QB better get rid of the ball quick. You could have you LB fall back into zone