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View Full Version : horrible goal line rule change


tony hipchest
03-29-2007, 11:44 AM
i doubt we'll hear much about this, cause at the surface it seems rather insignificant, but i just heard on the radio that the goal line is no longer a plane that circles the whole earth. the plane now ends at the pylons and THE BALL itself will have to be inside the pylons for a td to count.

this is a pretty bogus rule. not only is it gonna negate alot of td's, im pretty sure it will be a reviewable play and having coaches challenge the eyesight of the refs left and right.

for 1, everyone is taught to carry the ball in the arm closest to the sideline. every td scored where the player is being chased down the sideline will be overly scrutinized regarless if they step over the goal line or kick the pylon.

those bootleg keepers, where the qb runs to the pylon will be a little less effective. its even feasible that a qb could run to the sidelines, throw the ball while his feet (or foot) are still in bounds, to a receiver who is falling out of bounds, who still catches the ball with both toes firmly planted in bounds, and that play be negated? if the ball doesnt cross the goal line between the pylons. i dont think they thought out this specific scenario too well, because is it an incomlete pass? ball on the 1? stupid rule?

PisnNapalm
03-29-2007, 12:39 PM
Good! I'm glad it's been changed. I feel that the ball should have to cross the goal line in the field of play.

As for a wideout catching a sideline pass while falling out of bounds, I imagine that will still be a good play. It will always make the highlight reel.

tony hipchest
03-29-2007, 12:51 PM
Good! I'm glad it's been changed. I feel that the ball should have to cross the goal line in the field of play.

As for a wideout catching a sideline pass while falling out of bounds, I imagine that will still be a good play. It will always make the highlight reel.i dont know if theyve thought about this. according to the rule change (and like i said i didnt hear any in depth description of it) the pylons extend 2 lines from the sidelines up into space and the ball has to go inbetween these two lines.

while rare, that sideline throw to the wr falling out of bounds in the endzone while the qb is rolling towards the sideline, is a great play that takes extreme atheletisizm and skill.

MACH1
03-29-2007, 01:03 PM
Going back to last year, how many of LT's td's would not have been with this new rule??
If its not broke dont fix it....IMO

Suitanim
03-30-2007, 06:29 PM
I'm surprised by this namely because the NFL is always looking to change the rules in favor of more scoring.

tony hipchest
03-30-2007, 08:06 PM
i understand the spiking the ball in the field of play rule. its a wast of time and interrupts the flow of the game. im real liberal in my views of end zone celebration (or even showing emotion in the field of play, BUT i dont think any player should make the ref go chase the ball around like hes a freaking dog, so that the ref can place it on the line of scrimmage to resume play.

if the clock is ticking, or even if its in between downs, the players should hand (or atleast toss, give) the ball to the nearest ref.

MACH1
03-30-2007, 08:18 PM
i understand the spiking the ball in the field of play rule. its a wast of time and interrupts the flow of the game. im real liberal in my views of end zone celebration (or even showing emotion in the field of play, BUT i dont think any player should make the ref go chase the ball around like hes a freaking dog, so that the ref can place it on the line of scrimmage to resume play.

if the clock is ticking, or even if its in between downs, the players should hand (or atleast toss, give) the ball to the nearest ref.

or a bounce pass to the ref.. :sofunny:

polamalufan43
03-30-2007, 09:52 PM
I honestly think they should have just kept the rule the same. I mean, I understand why they changed it in all, but to me I liked it alot better the way it was. And it's agreed there will be more coaches challenging calls and possibly the refs eyesight...

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

Borski
03-30-2007, 10:02 PM
I dont care if players spike the ball after a play, it shows emotion.

and I see no reason the change the goalline rule

N o
F u n
L e a g e

BettisFan
03-30-2007, 11:41 PM
can some one eplain this rule in laymans terms please

fansince'76
03-31-2007, 12:18 AM
I don't understand why there was even any need to change this. The old rule was clear as can be, and I can't remember any controversy over it.

My sentiments exactly. A concrete rule(s) change concerning what constitutes a completed pass instead of the ambiguous "football move" bullshit that winds up being interpreted differently in every game is desperately needed and they instead adopt a rule change like this? It seems to me, however, that a WR falling out of bounds in the endzone with a catch will still be a TD simply because the ball would have crossed the goal line (albeit in mid-air) between the pylons before reaching the WR(?) However, I have seen RBs "walk the tightrope" on the sidelines deep in the red zone and have noticed more than one RB extending his arm and holding the ball out of bounds as he runs into the endzone, while keeping his feet in bounds and inside the pylon. Will this be 1st-and-goal at the one yard line under the new rule? Again, completely unnecessary rule change which will add nothing to the game.

tony hipchest
03-31-2007, 12:37 AM
My sentiments exactly. A concrete rule(s) change concerning what constitutes a completed pass instead of the ambiguous "football move" bullshit that winds up being interpreted differently in every game is desperately needed and they instead adopt a rule change like this? It seems to me, however, that a WR falling out of bounds in the endzone with a catch will still be a TD simply because the ball would have crossed the goal line (albeit in mid-air) between the pylons before reaching the WR(?) However, I have seen RBs "walk the tightrope" on the sidelines deep in the red zone and have noticed more than one RB extending his arm and holding the ball out of bounds as he runs into the endzone, while keeping his feet in bounds and inside the pylon. Will this be 1st-and-goal at the one yard line under the new rule? Again, completely unnecessary rule change which will add nothing to the game.

excellent points! the "walking the tightrope example is perfect. if he gets both feet in bounds and crosses the goal line it should be a td REGARDLESS of where the ball is being held :dang: :dang:

do they arbitrarily place the ball at the 1 yd line or do they go back and actually try to figure out where the ball crossed the "out of bounds" plane that never before existed but will now need to be invented to impliment this rule?

utterly rediculous. they took a perfect definition of a rule (goal line extends beyond the pylons) and made it 100X more complicated.

the nfl didnt fully think this one out. in an attempt to cut down on a few problems with interpretation of a rule a year, they have opened a whole can of worms.

K.I.S.S. = keep it simple stupid!!!!! :dang:

and dont even get me started on the "football move" after a reception bullshit. most horrible rule ever. what about the keyshawn johnson rule where the ball can touch the ground as long as the receiver maintains posession, that has never been enforced??? :dang:

fansince'76
03-31-2007, 12:47 AM
K.I.S.S. = keep it simple stupid!!!!! :dang:

Precisely. Another thing, what about the down and distance situation if it was already 3rd-and-goal and my earlier "tightrope" scenario played out? 4th-and-goal at the one? You're right - they didn't think this one out at all, and I think it will soon be repealed. If the NFL gets enough of an outcry that enough games have been won or lost on officials' calls due to a rule change, that rule change gets tossed, IMO.

tony hipchest
03-31-2007, 01:00 AM
the problem wasnt the rule. it was the interpretation of the rule (much like the tuck rule).

in the past you could dive out of bounds, without ever having a body part actually cross the white line in between the pylons, and as long as your toe tipped the pylon, it would be considered a TD.

in order to clear this up they just have to say the ball must cross the goal line (diving with extended arms), or possession must be established inside the endzone as long as the ball crosses the plane of the goal (backing up into the endzone the ball would still have to cross, regardless of where the feet are at).

if the refs could actually interpret the rules, they wouldnt constantly have to be altered to compensate for their stupidity.

fansince'76
03-31-2007, 01:58 AM
if the refs could actually interpret the rules, they wouldnt constantly have to be altered to compensate for their stupidity.

Agreed. However, as you mentioned before, they have taken the perfect definition of a rule and complicated it 100 times over. Besides, the concept of the goal line extending around the earth as an imaginary line has been a widely accepted one for years, and as steelreserve mentioned virtually never created controversy. Why open the door for more controversies over officiating that this is pretty much guaranteed to create? This is a stupid move.

MACH1
03-31-2007, 02:22 AM
O.K. what happens if a receiver is tippy toeing in the front corner of the e.z. and reaches out of bounds and catches the ball, pulls it back in while keeping his feet in? Is that incomplete or what.

BettisFan
03-31-2007, 10:54 AM
what is so bad about this its not going to make much difference

RoethlisBURGHer
03-31-2007, 11:42 AM
If the NFL would make the refs full time,maybe they'd actually interpret the rules correctly.

BettisFan
03-31-2007, 11:43 AM
exactly but the NFL is cheap

fansince'76
03-31-2007, 12:02 PM
what is so bad about this its not going to make much difference

Come back and say that after we lose a game due to this "insignificant" rule change. It doesn't sound like much now, but I guarantee you cutting off the goal line at the pylons is gonna make a huge difference. You think complicating the hell out of what was a very simple and widely accepted rule regarding the imaginary extension of the goal line will improve officiating? Trust me, it won't.

R2sojr
03-31-2007, 12:36 PM
i understand the spiking the ball in the field of play rule. its a wast of time and interrupts the flow of the game. im real liberal in my views of end zone celebration (or even showing emotion in the field of play, BUT i dont think any player should make the ref go chase the ball around like hes a freaking dog, so that the ref can place it on the line of scrimmage to resume play.

if the clock is ticking, or even if its in between downs, the players should hand (or atleast toss, give) the ball to the nearest ref.


I totally agree....in the 1st 2nd and 3rd qtr they spike the ball and make the refs run wild but when it comes down to the 4th qtr and under 2 minutes left they damn sure want that ref runnin full speed to put the ball on the line...well if you hadn't had him runnning all over the place for the ball all game maybe he would have the energy to put the ball down..lol...i dont mind celebration but spiking it like cray and throwing it up in the air is unecessary....you even see some guys who get like a 3 yard gain and spike it...no need to..lol...you see when jerome got those hard yards he got up and did his thing and left the ball on the ground:tt02:

MACH1
03-31-2007, 12:58 PM
what is so bad about this its not going to make much difference

Sure it will- Go look at last year and how many rushing td's would have been called out with this rule? How many fewer would LT have and no record.?

polamalufan43
03-31-2007, 01:17 PM
Sure it will- Go look at last year and how many rushing td's would have been called out with this rule? How many fewer would LT have and no record.?

True, this will be interesting to see how the players will adapt.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

BettisFan
03-31-2007, 03:04 PM
well i guess i dont understand it can someone explain it in simple terms?

Preacher
03-31-2007, 04:24 PM
Come back and say that after we lose a game due to this "insignificant" rule change. It doesn't sound like much now, but I guarantee you cutting off the goal line at the pylons is gonna make a huge difference. You think complicating the hell out of what was a very simple and widely accepted rule regarding the imaginary extension of the goal line will improve officiating? Trust me, it won't.

I agree with you it is going to affect more then a few plays..

However, I actually think it is a good rule. I could never understand why the entire body could be in the endzone, but the ball be on the 1/2 yard line, and it not be a touchdown, yet the same rule didn't apply to the sidelines.

I would think the rule would read something like... the ball has to cross within the plane of the pylons... so if it did that, and caught beyond the sideline, it would be okay, as long as the two feet were in.

Heck, personally I wish they would go back to the old Rugby way of doing it... the ball HAS to be put down ON THE GROUND in the endzone... and wherever it is put... the fieldgoal is kicked from that linear spot... anyone from the 2 yard line to one's own goal line.

tony hipchest
03-31-2007, 04:52 PM
I agree with you it is going to affect more then a few plays..

However, I actually think it is a good rule. I could never understand why the entire body could be in the endzone, but the ball be on the 1/2 yard line, and it not be a touchdown, yet the same rule didn't apply to the sidelines.

well thats simple. the whole goal of football is to score points, wther it be getting the ball across the goal line or through the uprights. if possession of the ball is established within the endzone it has always counted as a td as long as the ball crossed the plane. out of bounds and the pylon is for the players body. not the ball itself. the endzone is for the ball and not the player itself. thats why you can catch a ball that is going out of bounds, but as long as you establish possession in bounds its still a catch. otherwise put walls up and make it arena football. what the nfl has essentially done with this bogus rule change is put up an imaginary wall on the sides of the endzone. if the nfl really wants to enforce this horrid rule, they need to atleast replace the pylons with 6 foot flag poles like the ones in golf to mark the holes, its the only way to really make this work. i hope it fails miserably though and is reversed.



with equipment, every players body is broader at their shoulders, than at their feet. that means every sideline run where a player properly carries the ball in the arm closest to the sideline is gonna be scrutinized to see if the ball actually goes over the pylon. instead of looking at feet, and boldly striped white lines, the refs in review are gonna have to interpret angles and arbitrary points in the air.

the whole skinny of this rule is to make the patriots feel better about the playoff game td champ bailey scored against them 2 years ago. im willing to bet robert kraft was the main backer of this rediculous rule change.

HometownGal
03-31-2007, 06:07 PM
Going back to last year, how many of LT's td's would not have been with this new rule??
If its not broke dont fix it....IMO

Exactly. Why don't they spend more time brainstorming on how to return the NFL to the physical game it was intended to be, not this pussified version it has become over the last 5-7 years?

HometownGal
04-01-2007, 09:34 AM
HTG is starting to sound like a TB RB accused of fathering a child....Calm down :sofunny:



Didn't realize I was having an anxiety attack by posting what I did. :flap: Me thinks you're the one in need of a chill pill, NC. :wink02:

stillers4me
04-01-2007, 09:41 AM
Exactly. Why don't they spend more time brainstorming on how to return the NFL to the physical game it was intended to be, not this pussified version it has become over the last 5-7 years?

I totally agree with ya, HTG.......(spit). :jammin:

fansince'76
04-01-2007, 02:34 PM
well i guess i dont understand it can someone explain it in simple terms?

Under the old rule, the definition of the goal line included the idea that the goal line stretched as an imaginary line around the earth. Under the new rule, the goal line ends at the pylons at each front corner of the end zone. Which will lead to things like this:

with equipment, every players body is broader at their shoulders, than at their feet. that means every sideline run where a player properly carries the ball in the arm closest to the sideline is gonna be scrutinized to see if the ball actually goes over the pylon. instead of looking at feet, and boldly striped white lines, the refs in review are gonna have to interpret angles and arbitrary points in the air.

Can you see how this rule change has the potential for causing nothing but problems now?

NV STEELERS 723
04-01-2007, 08:08 PM
SO Big Ben's TD in SB XL wouldn't have counted w/ this rule change right?

Livinginthe past
04-02-2007, 12:15 AM
SO Big Ben's TD in SB XL wouldn't have counted w/ this rule change right?

That would have still counted.

The only TD's that run the risk of being ruled out are those that the ball goes out of bounds on the sideline before breaking the plane of the goalline.

Ben's TD was fairly central from what I remember so it would have been fine.

MACH1
04-02-2007, 01:00 AM
If I understand the rule right one of these are questionable TD's. :sofunny: According to where the ball is.


http://www.giants.com/uploads/assets/news/06_0629_toomer.jpg

http://www.steelertribute.com/XL_ben_is_in.jpg

fansince'76
04-02-2007, 01:41 AM
If I understand the rule right one of these are questionable TD's. :sofunny: According to where the ball is.


http://www.giants.com/uploads/assets/news/06_0629_toomer.jpg

It has nothing to do with the back of the endzone either - it has everything to do with the pylons at both front corners of the end zone and the position of the ball in relation to them on goal line plays on the sideline. The best picture I could find to illustrate this was from a Texas A&M game:

http://garys-files.googlegroups.com/web/Ball%20Held%20Over%20Pylon.JPG

Under the old rule, this would be a TD, because despite the ballcarrier holding the ball over the pylon and out of bounds, his feet remain clearly in bounds as he's about to cross over the goal line. Under the new rule, this is out-of-bounds, but I'm not clear on where it would be spotted. Yeah, this little rule change shouldn't cause any problems whatsoever next season.

MACH1
04-02-2007, 01:47 AM
It has nothing to do with the back of the endzone either - it has everything to do with the pylons at each front corner of the end zone and the position of the ball in relation to them on goal line plays on the sideline. The best picture I could find to illustrate this was from a Texas A&M game:

http://garys-files.googlegroups.com/web/Ball%20Held%20Over%20Pylon.JPG

Under the old rule, this would be a TD, despite the ballcarrier holding the ball over the pylon and out of bounds, although his feet are clearly in bounds as he's about to cross over the goal line. Under the new rule, this is out-of-bounds, presumably at the one(?)



Yeah I couldnt find a front corner pic, but put that catch in a front corner leaning out with feet in, ball thrown a little out side the pylon. Down at the 1 or incomplete?

Your picture works better for a visual aid...:smile:

Preacher
04-02-2007, 03:49 AM
out of bounds and the pylon is for the players body. not the ball itself. the endzone is for the ball and not the player itself..

Hey Tony...

That is my point. If the ENDZONE is for the ball itself, and the endzone is defined by the sidelines, the backline, and the front line, then it would seem to me that the ball has to cross INTO the endzone.

What I don't get, is when did the rule change to be a plane that extends indefinitely. Do you all remember football players stretching to put the ball on the INSIDE of the cone? It seems all they would have to do if they are going out of bounds before the endzone... is stretch beyond the plane, regardless of whether it was or was not inside the cone.

So was it originally a rule change... or did the players just not know the rules of the game?

tony hipchest
04-02-2007, 10:19 AM
Hey Tony...

That is my point. If the ENDZONE is for the ball itself, and the endzone is defined by the sidelines, the backline, and the front line, then it would seem to me that the ball has to cross INTO the endzone.

What I don't get, is when did the rule change to be a plane that extends indefinitely. Do you all remember football players stretching to put the ball on the INSIDE of the cone? It seems all they would have to do if they are going out of bounds before the endzone... is stretch beyond the plane, regardless of whether it was or was not inside the cone.

So was it originally a rule change... or did the players just not know the rules of the game?
good question. since the rule seems to have alway been that a td is either when the ball crosses the goal line between the pylons, or when the player establishes possession of the ball within the endzone (and the ball crosses the plane) the imaginary line has always existed because that is the easiest, most efficient, and logical way to officiate all these plays that happen around the endzone.

i think theyre trying to re-invent the wheel and opening a pandoras box. what this is doing is making different rules for different sections of the field. the only way to trully make this work and be consistent would be to put clear glass windows around the perimeter of the field like in hockey. if the ball touches the plexi- it is a dead ball or out of bounds.

ben2hines=6
04-04-2007, 02:12 PM
this may make qb's think twice about going for the endzones and may cause more injury at the goal line....one player that is gonna be killed over this is mcnabb....the guy always grags the foot inside the line with the rst of his body including ther ball out

polamalufan43
04-04-2007, 03:23 PM
this may make qb's think twice about going for the endzones and may cause more injury at the goal line....one player that is gonna be killed over this is mcnabb....the guy always grags the foot inside the line with the rst of his body including ther ball out

:iagree: 100%

Mcnabb is only one. For some reason, I think Vick might have an issue with this too. Don't ask me why, it is just a strong feeling, lol.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

Elvis
04-05-2007, 09:46 PM
i doubt we'll hear much about this, cause at the surface it seems rather insignificant, but i just heard on the radio that the goal line is no longer a plane that circles the whole earth. the plane now ends at the pylons and THE BALL itself will have to be inside the pylons for a td to count.

this is a pretty bogus rule. not only is it gonna negate alot of td's, im pretty sure it will be a reviewable play and having coaches challenge the eyesight of the refs left and right.

for 1, everyone is taught to carry the ball in the arm closest to the sideline. every td scored where the player is being chased down the sideline will be overly scrutinized regarless if they step over the goal line or kick the pylon.

those bootleg keepers, where the qb runs to the pylon will be a little less effective. its even feasible that a qb could run to the sidelines, throw the ball while his feet (or foot) are still in bounds, to a receiver who is falling out of bounds, who still catches the ball with both toes firmly planted in bounds, and that play be negated? if the ball doesnt cross the goal line between the pylons. i dont think they thought out this specific scenario too well, because is it an incomlete pass? ball on the 1? stupid rule?
Good thread.. I agree with ya
Jesus Love You:hug:
Elvis