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Livinginthe past
04-04-2007, 10:12 PM
I've noticed that some players seem to have a reputation with the fans that seems at odds with what they have actually achieved in the NFL.

I'll throw out a list of players that seem to be both over and under-rated by the Fever faithful.

Under

Willie Parker - I was as sceptical as the next man when Willie ran all over poor opposition but got stopped in his tracks by halfway decent teams in his first year. His 2nd year has been a revelation, though - especially considering the Steeler O-line got bullied at times last year.

I always considerd Willie to have tremendous upside due his UDFA status and he has come on leaps and bounds ever since.

Yet still, it seems that many think the Steelers still require a Bettis type high round draft pick to complement him.

Im all for a complemntary JAG, but to spend a high draft pick (anything higher than a 4th) on a RB this year seems like a waste.

Over

John Kuhn - Despite this being a long running joke, I still get the feeling that quite of a few Fever faithful are waiting for Kuhn to explode onto the scene - mainly because he is a 'big-back' - see Willie Parker.

Under

Max Starks - The whole O-line was poor for long periods last year, but it seems that the less established Starks is the one catching most of the heat for it. Seems that he is the whipping boy for the non-performance of a whole unit.

Over

Anthony Smith - This guys rep seems to have been mainly built on one big hit on a Bengal (on the field not in a casino) - he was an integral part of a DB corps that picked on last year. He's a talented guy no doubt, but he has a way to go before he can match the organisational influence the departed Hope had on the secondary.

Ok that should get the ball rolling.

Feel free to agree, disagree or add your own over/under-rated Steelers players - its purely an opinion thing so have some fun with it.

Sharkissle29
04-04-2007, 10:31 PM
Anthony smith is not overrated to me at all. He had many outstanding hits and has showed that he is extremely physical. Adding a few interceptions, i say this guy is the next best thing to pittsburgh....but thats just me

GBMelBlount
04-04-2007, 10:32 PM
I've noticed that some players seem to have a reputation with the fans that seems at odds with what they have actually achieved in the NFL.

I'll throw out a list of players that seem to be both over and under-rated by the Fever faithful.

Under

Willie Parker - I was as sceptical as the next man when Willie ran all over poor opposition but got stopped in his tracks by halfway decent teams in his first year. His 2nd year has been a revelation, though - especially considering the Steeler O-line got bullied at times last year.

I always considerd Willie to have tremendous upside due his UDFA status and he has come on leaps and bounds ever since.

Yet still, it seems that many think the Steelers still require a Bettis type high round draft pick to complement him.

Im all for a complemntary JAG, but to spend a high draft pick (anything higher than a 4th) on a RB this year seems like a waste.

Over

John Kuhn - Despite this being a long running joke, I still get the feeling that quite of a few Fever faithful are waiting for Kuhn to explode onto the scene - mainly because he is a 'big-back' - see Willie Parker.

Under

Max Starks - The whole O-line was poor for long periods last year, but it seems that the less established Starks is the one catching most of the heat for it. Seems that he is the whipping boy for the non-performance of a whole unit.

Over

Anthony Smith - This guys rep seems to have been mainly built on one big hit on a Bengal (on the field not in a casino) - he was an integral part of a DB corps that picked on last year. He's a talented guy no doubt, but he has a way to go before he can match the organisational influence the departed Hope had on the secondary.

Ok that should get the ball rolling.

Feel free to agree, disagree or add your own over/under-rated Steelers players - its purely an opinion thing so have some fun with it.

Agree on FWP. Kuhn, no big deal. Starks, is he decent? Have read too much saying he is an oversized incompetent. Smith, have heard only great things about upside potential. I have never learned as much as I have learned in last month as SF member. You may be right on all calls. I just pray Steelers (Tomlin) make best decisions. I have concerns, especially on O-line, but have faith in draft, and this next year! :tt02:

steelafan
04-04-2007, 10:37 PM
The reason I would blame Starks most for OL problems is the frequency the opponents come around the right side to make a play. Every now and then they get by someone else, but the right side - especially the far right side - is where they come from most often. Defense also seems to come around the right side if Ben doesn't get rid of the ball in enough time.

RoethlisBURGHer
04-04-2007, 10:39 PM
Anthony smith is not overrated to me at all. He had many outstanding hits and has showed that he is extremely physical. Adding a few interceptions, i say this guy is the next best thing to pittsburgh....but thats just me

I gotta agree,he played very will when he got onto the field.The hit on TJ is just fun to watch because we all hate his guts.

He's gonna hit everyone hard,and he can come up with a few picks a year.

Over

Brett Keisel- A lot of fans thought he was gonna be the next dominant DE of the Steelers,but I saw him get pushed around a lot,which negated his speed.He doesn't have any moves to get around the bigger o-lineman,he just tries to run past them and gets knocked on his ass.If he could develop something like Freeney's spin move,he could be vety dominant.

Under

Charlie Batch- For all he has done for the team (undefeated as a starter for the Steelers),he still seems to get hated on a lot.I think he's the best backup in the league.When Ben went down in the Atlanta game,Batch came in and the offense didn't miss a step,and that's what you look for in a backup QB...someone that can come in and keep the offense moving.

GBMelBlount
04-04-2007, 10:48 PM
I gotta agree,he played very will when he got onto the field.The hit on TJ is just fun to watch because we all hate his guts.

He's gonna hit everyone hard,and he can come up with a few picks a year.

Over

Brett Keisel- A lot of fans thought he was gonna be the next dominant DE of the Steelers,but I saw him get pushed around a lot,which negated his speed.He doesn't have any moves to get around the bigger o-lineman,he just tries to run past them and gets knocked on his ass.If he could develop something like Freeney's spin move,he could be vety dominant.

Under

Charlie Batch- For all he has done for the team (undefeated as a starter for the Steelers),he still seems to get hated on a lot.I think he's the best backup in the league.When Ben went down in the Atlanta game,Batch came in and the offense didn't miss a step,and that's what you look for in a backup QB...someone that can come in and keep the offense moving.

Keisel, can't say. Couldn't we have had a better pass rush last year, OL's in 3-4? probably. Didn't Brett do well against the run! I am new, you tell me. But I completely agree on Batch. He has played well as a backup. His heart is in Pgh, And I think he is in great shape for his age...maybe better than most QB's (ever seen Ben, Peyton with their shirts off?) Muscles ain't a QB's thing, but I think Charlie gives 100%.

fansince'76
04-04-2007, 10:50 PM
Anthony Smith - This guys rep seems to have been mainly built on one big hit on a Bengal (on the field not in a casino) - he was an integral part of a DB corps that picked on last year. He's a talented guy no doubt, but he has a way to go before he can match the organisational influence the departed Hope had on the secondary.

Ryan Clark was the starter at FS and Smith still put up better numbers (2 INT, 6 passes defensed to 1 INT, 2 passes defensed for Clark). Smith made things happen for the limited amount of playing time he saw and the only reason he didn't see more time was primarily due to Cowher's pigheaded insistence in starting vets over rookies, even if the rookie is the better player. Smith is going to be a difference maker.

GBMelBlount
04-04-2007, 10:59 PM
Ryan Clark was the starter at FS and Smith still put up better numbers (2 INT, 6 passes defensed to 1 INT, 2 passes defensed for Clark). Smith made things happen for the limited amount of playing time he saw and the only reason he didn't see more time was primarily due to Cowher's pigheaded insistence in starting vets over rookies, even if the rookie is the better player. Smith is going to be a difference maker.


Thanks for the stats 76. I thought Smith had a good rep. His stats sound like they support that. I personally think he can start next year and be solid. It is refreshing to know there are a few strong young guys making a play for it. Still concerned about O-line and possibly losing AF. Sorry to change subject.

The Duke
04-04-2007, 11:08 PM
Smith will get the starting job his year and prove he isn't overated.

OneForTheToe
04-04-2007, 11:40 PM
I'm not sure Smith is overrated. I do think some fans become so enamored with big hits they forget the rest. That said, Smith seems to have picked up the D scheme pretty well for a rookie, and regardless of whether he starts the season, I think he is the future.

I happen to believe Max Starks is overrated. Yes, the entire O'line struggled last season. However, most of the other starters have established that they can play at a high level in the NFL. I'm not convinced Max is in that category. Hopefully, he will prove me wrong.

The reaction to Brent Keisel confuses me. I thought he had a good season. All the feedback from the Steelers leads me to believe they thought he had a good season. I don't know how he could have been pushed around and the Steelers still be among the best in the league against the run.

Khun can never be overrated. I heard the Steelers might loan him to the Pens for the playoffs.

tony hipchest
04-04-2007, 11:58 PM
willie parker- frank gore has decided to drop 5 lbs this off season after a private conversation with l. tomlinson in which he was advised to get down to 210 (willies playing weight) so he can achieve his goal of 2000 yds and finish runs by scoring more td's and not getting chased down from behind. frank gore had everything willie never did. top recruit to a top college with top college that was turning out pro bowl rb's like e. james, c. portis, and w. mcgahee. until his injuries, gore was even regarded as the best of the bunch. as a pro he played for a coordinator who turned out s. davis, e. smiths, r. williams, and l. tomlinsons league leading seasons. FWP is still trying to get out of the shadow of the bus. gore has always cast a shadow. if willie ever has the confidence of a player like gore, the sky is the limit. in the meantime, he still hung neck and neck with him in last years production. while many fans have caught on, willie is still underrated.

john kuhn- until a big back is projected to be a top 10 pick in the draft, i never wanna hear "the next jerome bettis" again. the closest weve seen recently is ron dayne and rickey williams who was said to be the next earl campbell. both set college rushing records and both flopped. if rickey had jeromes heart, he couldve been great. you cant measure a mans heart and its time to realize players like kuhn could have twice the heart but their talent, simply will not allow them to be the next jerome (even old, back up jerome). jerome is a once in a generation back and kuhn is overrated.

max starks- if steelerfans dont appreciate an experienced, bohemoth, sb winning lineman for the basement price of less than $2 mil, theres about 25 teams out there who will. his potential, youth, and upside still outweigh his mistakes. i wonder if he adopted a "go with the flow" mentality after the sb win where many players werent putting in the extra work and resting on their laurels. for the price he is definitely underrated. (maybe not underrated but taking way too much heat).

anthony smith- calling him overrated is like those who called polamalu overrated in his 1st and 2nd years. forget his hit against a bengal, he won over fans against the cardinals in his 1st pre season game. hea easilly has the potential to be the best safety in the 06 class.

ike taylor- for the ammount of fans calling for his replacement, i would guess he is underrated. sure cowher benched him, but it is cowher without a job in the nfl right now.

chris hope- yes hes gone, but he was one of the most underrated free agents we have lost in a while. his importance to polamalu and lockerroom presence was minimized.

heath miller- this is the biggest problem. we still really dont know if hes underrated or not.

james farrior- underrated. people seem willing to write off the whole lb corps like they are jason gildon. if he stays healthy, farrior will have a starting job in the nfl for the next 6 years, and he can look no further than the browns, patriots, or jets, for work, if hes ever released.

Indy_Steelers
04-05-2007, 06:23 AM
heath miller- this is the biggest problem. we still really dont know if hes underrated or not.

I agree. I thought that when we drafted we would have thrown to him a lot more than we have. He has got some good speed, we saw that in the Miami game. I hope they throw to him more and he has a break out year in '07.

polamalufan43
04-05-2007, 06:42 AM
I think Anthony Smith has earned all the talk we have given him. I really don't consider him over-rated just yet. When and if we start comparing him to HOF free safeties when he's only coming off his rookie year, then I'll say he's overrated. I can see where the John Kuhn thing comes into play though. Personally, I think he is slightly overrated, but I guess we'll see in training camp. Willie Parker in some ways is underated and in other ways the exact opposite. The fact that some seen to think that on every play he's going to bust out a 75 yarder or more is way overrated. Sure, there's no doubt in my mind that he can (see SBXL) but that happening on every play? No, he's got to work with what the O-line gives him.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

ARKIESTEEL
04-05-2007, 06:47 AM
Anthony smith is not overrated to me at all. He had many outstanding hits and has showed that he is extremely physical. Adding a few interceptions, i say this guy is the next best thing to pittsburgh....but thats just me



I have to agree with this very strongly. I also feel that Casey Hampton dont get all the brownie points he should either that guy is a force for us.

Crushzilla
04-05-2007, 08:21 AM
I missed the last few games (unfortunately) because I am in Italy for the semester and had to get everything together and fly over.

Nate Washington had bright spots that I saw earlier in the season. I know the rap on him is that he doesn't run great routes? Is this true?

I don't know... It seems like people aren't onboard with him... did something happen later on that shows he won't be worth anything in the long run... his size, alone, is a nice coompliment to the current recieving core, which has no true deep threat.

steelerbackr4life
04-05-2007, 10:04 AM
Nate came up big in a couple of games last year with recievers hurt. Whether or not he can do that consistently is still a question.

Counselor
04-05-2007, 11:52 AM
Hey Crushzilla---I'm a '98 grad of SVC. Go Bearcats! I was up thre for training camp last year--the campus looks great!


As for over/under rated players:

I do not believe Anthony Smith is overrated. He made some really big hits and a couple of interceptions last year. He seemed to pick up the schemes fairly well for a rookie in a tough position to play. I think most of the buzz around him is as a "potential" star not a current one---and thats what he is a "potential star."


John Kuhn is overrated. I have nothing more to say on that.

Heath Miller seems to be underrated by the old coaching staff and/or Ben---whoever decided not to throw the ball to him.

Ike Taylor and Max Starks are both underrated scapegoats for last season's failures

And--OK--don't kill me for this but---to a certain extend Faneca is overrated. He did not deserve a probowl appearence this year, he made that on name alone. I'm not in a panic over his potentially imminent departure at this point in his career.

DACEB
04-05-2007, 12:49 PM
I can see where the John Kuhn thing comes into play though. Personally, I think he is slightly overrated, but I guess we'll see in training camp. ~Polamalufan43:tt02:

Yes!! Finally, one way or the other the whole John Kuhn thing will hopefully be decided this camp!!

BTW, I say overrated we haven't even seen him in a regular season game FCOL!! But I would have to say I hope he proves me wrong!:wink02:

lamberts-lost-tooth
04-05-2007, 01:33 PM
Willie Parker....Showed what he is capable of..but DOES need someone to relieve him...his body wont handle the load he carried last season, for very many years....

John Kuhn....showed flashes..but I dont think anyone can make a fair decision on him until he shows more gameday production...(I am guessing his lack of gameday production is due to something that the coaches have seen that I havent)

Max Starks....seems to lose concentration and stands straight up...loses his leverage...watching the playoff run on DVD it was obvious that the line scheme was designed to cover his flaws...consistantly had someone helping him from the line or backfield.

Anthony Smith...his reputation wasnt build on ONE big hit...in fact his best hit of the year wasnt the one on TJ..it was the hit against Philly when he demolished the punt returner....and he showed enough coverage skill to earn a starting spot by the end of the year....Coverage skill + Big Hits = a true player

19ward86
04-05-2007, 01:42 PM
john kuhn reminds me exactly of bettis, former FB turned into a HB. kuhn led his college team(shipsburgh?) in rushing. in my mind he is overhyped but not overrated, he played amazing in the '06 preseason.

anthony smith is definitaly not overrated, the game where he had all those big hits was the 2nd game agianst the browns, he played ST and the safety spot with excelent talent, for a 3rd round pick rookie.

fansince'76
04-05-2007, 01:54 PM
john kuhn reminds me exactly of bettis, former FB turned into a HB. kuhn led his college team(shipsburgh?) in rushing. in my mind he is overhyped but not overrated, he played amazing in the '06 preseason.

Yes, against guys who for the most part were probably washing cars for a living about 3 weeks afterwards. I'm reserving my judgment of Kuhn until I see him play against NFL starting-caliber defensive players.

steel#1
04-05-2007, 02:38 PM
I think that all of the stats and perceptions from last year have to be thrown out the window. We never saw the team that won the Superbowl the year before. To base anything on last year is flawed because we never saw anyone play to their potential. There were so many problems last year it was insurmountable, in all areas.

I think we need another powerback to soften up apposing defenses for when Parker can't get it going. Whether anyone will acknowledge it or not there were 4 or 5 games when Parker couldn't get the running game going.i.e. Jacksonville, Baltimore, etc. I'm not trashing Parker I just think he could use a good complimentary back.

I think and hope that Heath Miller will be utilized more this season since Arians wants to go to a 4-wide receiver set. It appeared to me that both of the TE's last year spent way to much time blocking rather than receiving and that hurt a lot.

Let's hope that a new coaching staff and a disappointing year last year lights a fire in these guys' guts. Personally I think it will because every man on the team talks like they're reenergized and the early work ethic from the team shows a lot of promise. Lets hope so.

JuniorSteelerfan
04-05-2007, 05:07 PM
Anthony smith is not overrated to me at all. He had many outstanding hits and has showed that he is extremely physical. Adding a few interceptions, i say this guy is the next best thing to pittsburgh....but thats just me

I have to agree Smith is anything but overrated, yes he will take some time to develop into a Chris Hope but as a rookie a think he definately was not over rated, but who am I!

Elvis
04-05-2007, 08:15 PM
I've noticed that some players seem to have a reputation with the fans that seems at odds with what they have actually achieved in the NFL.

I'll throw out a list of players that seem to be both over and under-rated by the Fever faithful.

Under

Willie Parker - I was as sceptical as the next man when Willie ran all over poor opposition but got stopped in his tracks by halfway decent teams in his first year. His 2nd year has been a revelation, though - especially considering the Steeler O-line got bullied at times last year.

I always considerd Willie to have tremendous upside due his UDFA status and he has come on leaps and bounds ever since.

Yet still, it seems that many think the Steelers still require a Bettis type high round draft pick to complement him.

Im all for a complemntary JAG, but to spend a high draft pick (anything higher than a 4th) on a RB this year seems like a waste.

Over

John Kuhn - Despite this being a long running joke, I still get the feeling that quite of a few Fever faithful are waiting for Kuhn to explode onto the scene - mainly because he is a 'big-back' - see Willie Parker.

Under

Max Starks - The whole O-line was poor for long periods last year, but it seems that the less established Starks is the one catching most of the heat for it. Seems that he is the whipping boy for the non-performance of a whole unit.

Over

Anthony Smith - This guys rep seems to have been mainly built on one big hit on a Bengal (on the field not in a casino) - he was an integral part of a DB corps that picked on last year. He's a talented guy no doubt, but he has a way to go before he can match the organisational influence the departed Hope had on the secondary.

Ok that should get the ball rolling.

Feel free to agree, disagree or add your own over/under-rated Steelers players - its purely an opinion thing so have some fun with it.

First of all.. I like Anthony Smith and I thinnk that hopefuly in time he can make a more impact on our defensive secondary. that being said I would love to see the Steelers make a surprise pick in the 1st round and select FS Brandon Merriweather of Miami, FLa. I know this is not probably gonna happen, its looks like we are gonna put the number one selection on OLB Timmons from Florida St. I think that it is time for the Steelers to select a true Left OT.. and either that should be Levi Brown or maybe even Ugoh if he is still around in the 2nd round.
I for one love what I have seen in Kuhn, but until Kreider is finished with his contract after this season we will not get a real look a him.
Willie Parker is the main man in Pittsburgh in my mind but we do need a nice power compliment for him. But I think that I was very impressed with the power that Parker runs with, I just think that our O Line was so suspect last year that it hurt him at times. We get our O Line fixed and I think he could rush for 16 or 1,700 yards.. Amen?
Jesus Is Still Saving Souls..
Elvis

steelersfanman92
04-05-2007, 08:47 PM
While he was here Sean Morey was definetly under rated along with Cedrick Wilson, Townsend overated he couldnt keep up with a reciever if his life depended on it

:helmet:

GBMelBlount
04-05-2007, 08:50 PM
I think that all of the stats and perceptions from last year have to be thrown out the window. We never saw the team that won the Superbowl the year before. To base anything on last year is flawed because we never saw anyone play to their potential. There were so many problems last year it was insurmountable, in all areas.

I think we need another powerback to soften up apposing defenses for when Parker can't get it going. Whether anyone will acknowledge it or not there were 4 or 5 games when Parker couldn't get the running game going.i.e. Jacksonville, Baltimore, etc. I'm not trashing Parker I just think he could use a good complimentary back.

I think and hope that Heath Miller will be utilized more this season since Arians wants to go to a 4-wide receiver set. It appeared to me that both of the TE's last year spent way to much time blocking rather than receiving and that hurt a lot.

Let's hope that a new coaching staff and a disappointing year last year lights a fire in these guys' guts. Personally I think it will because every man on the team talks like they're reenergized and the early work ethic from the team shows a lot of promise. Lets hope so.

I have heard others say we need another powerback. Is poo davenport substandard? Shoud we get rid of him? Seriously, I am asking.

Also, I think Heath Miller is talented. Had more stats his first year. Blocking last year, etc. Can we do a 4 receiver set if O-line isn't shored up?

Plus, this assumes Ben is fully recovered. better 2nd half last year but we'll see. Hope & pray for the best. If he is half as good as he thinks he is he will be stellar!!!! He sure had the doctors/cowher convinced last year!

GBMelBlount
04-05-2007, 08:53 PM
I have to agree Smith is anything but overrated, yes he will take some time to develop into a Chris Hope but as a rookie a think he definately was not over rated, but who am I!

How did Smith compare to how Palamolu was right out of the blocks?

The Duke
04-05-2007, 09:33 PM
While he was here Sean Morey was definetly under rated along with Cedrick Wilson, Townsend overated he couldnt keep up with a reciever if his life depended on it

:helmet:

Townsend is the one player in our team I see as overated. Yet I don't see much love for him so....

SteelCzar76
04-05-2007, 10:08 PM
Anthony Smith is not quite overated. Every time he was on the field he was clearly (even being a rook) in a different class than Ryan Clark or even Ty.
He brings a measure of intimidation that i think will eventually greatly surpass that which Hope did. Along with the fact that he has better instincts regarding making plays on the ball that result in interceptions.
Is he the second coming of Ronnie Lott ?,....of course it's far to premature to even give that thought any credence.
But let's just say he certainly has demonstrated that he very well could end up being a Pro Bowler at the least. (And if your name isn't Troy Polamalu that is saying a great deal based upon the play of our secondary in recent years.)

GBMelBlount
04-05-2007, 10:26 PM
Anthony Smith is not quite overated. Every time he was on the field he was clearly (even being a rook) in a different class than Ryan Clark or even Ty.
He brings a measure of intimidation that i think will eventually greatly surpass that which Hope did. Along with the fact that he has better instincts regarding making plays on the ball that result in interceptions.
Is he the second coming of Ronnie Lott ?,....of course it's far to premature to even give that thought any credence.
But let's just say he certainly has demonstrated that he very well could end up being a Pro Bowler at the least. (And if your name isn't Troy Polamalu that is saying a great deal based upon the play of our secondary in recent years.)


Was wondering if that was the case. Sounds like he compared favorably to Troy early on. We will see! Though season one does not dictate career, everyone matures differently.

Stlrs4Life
04-05-2007, 10:30 PM
Under-- (I might add way under) Dan Kreider.

The Duke
04-05-2007, 11:42 PM
Under-- (I might add way under) Dan Kreider.

Agreed