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HometownGal
04-16-2007, 11:37 AM
My God - what is this world coming to? Condolences go out ot all of the victims and their families. The gunman was also killed according to what I've been hearing on the tube.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266310,00.html

BLACKSBURG, Va. ? At least 22 are dead after a shooting at Virginia Tech University Monday morning, the campus police chief said.

Police said there was only one shooter and he is now dead. They are unsure if the shooter was a student.

"Today the university was struck by a tragedy we consider of monumental proportions," Virginia Tech President Charles Steger said during a press conference shortly after noon. "I cannot begin to convey my own personal sense of loss over this senseless, incomprehensible, heinous act."

A spokeswoman at Montgomery Regional Hospital said 17 students were being treated there for gunshot wounds, and Carilion New River Valley Medical Center in Christiansburg reports that four people with gunshot wounds were being treated there. Carilion spokeswoman Sharon Honaker said one was in critical condition and three others were stable.

Judith Chambers, a spokeswoman at Montgomery Regional Hospital, said victims are being treated for gunshot wounds and other injuries. The conditions vary and some are in surgery, she said.

School officials planned a noon EDT press conference Monday.

"Police have one shooter in custody and as part of routine police procedure, they continue to search for a second shooter," the school's Web site read Monday. "All people in university buildings are required to stay inside until further notice. All entrances to campus are closed."

The school's Web site confirmed the shooting at opposite ends of the 2,600-acre campus at West Ambler Johnston, a residence hall, and reported "multiple victims" at Norris Hall, an engineering building.

Local FOX affiliate WFXR-TV in Richmond reported that one shooting occurred between 7:15 a.m. and 7:30 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, and another at 10 a.m. at Norris Hall.

Virginia Tech student Blake Harrison said he was on his way to class near Norris Hall when he saw chaos.

"This teacher comes flying out of Norris, he's bleeding from his arm or his shoulder ... all these students were coming out of Norris trying to take shelter in Randolph [Hall]. All these kids were freaked out," Harrison said.

The students and faculty were barricading themselves in their classrooms after what one person described as an Asian student wearing a vest opened fire.

The shooter was "wearing a vest covered in clips was just unloading on their door, going from classroom to classroom ? they said it never seemed like it was going to stop and there was just blood all over," Harrison said.

Matt Merone, a campus senior, was on his way to campus Monday morning when he saw a police officer grab a male student who was bleeding from his stomach area and put him into a vehicle, which whisked him away. He told FOX News that his roommate saw the first shooting.

Police are on the scene and are investigating along with the FBI. All classes have been canceled, according to the campus newspaper, The Collegiate Times, and students and faculty have been told to stay inside. Tuesday classes have also been canceled. Faculty and staff on the Burruss Hall side of the campus drillfield are being released and asked to go home effective immediately. Faculty and staff on the War Memorial Hall side of the drillfield are asked to leave at 12:30 p.m.

The campus newspaper also reported that because of serious wind, helicopters cannot be used to transfer the injured. Ambulances are apparently being used to transport the victims to Montgomery Regional Hospital.

The university community is urged to be cautious. Anyone who observes anything suspicious or has information about this case is encouraged to contact the Virginia Tech Police at (540) 231-6411.

"There are police driving throughout the neighborhoods with a loudspeaker saying, 'This is an emergency, everyone stay inside, we're looking for suspicious activity," Brittany Sammon, a senior Virginia Tech student staying at an apartment off campus, told FOX News on Monday. "There's no one outside at all, there's no traffic, there's nothing ? everyone's doing what they said."

Sammon, who has a brother and roommate confined to their buildings on campus, said she first got the e-mail from the school regarding the shooting at 9:30 a.m. Monday.

"It was just very short and brief and kind of scary, because it didn't have any details at all in it," she said. "It's definitely nerve wracking."

The West Ambler Johnston dorm, commonly known on campus as West AJ, houses about 895 students and is located near West End Market and Dietrick Dining Center.

Virginia Tech has the largest full-time student population in Virginia, with more than 25,000 students. It consists of eight colleges and graduate school and offers 60 bachelor's degree programs and 140 master's and doctoral degree programs.

The main campus includes more than 100 buildings located on 2,600 acres, and includes an airport.

Last August, the campus was closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard and a sheriff's deputy involved in a massive manhunt. The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.

On April 13, the campus closed three of its academic halls after they received a letter stating that explosive devices were in the building. Classes were canceled for the remainder of the day. A bomb threat was also made against Torgerson Hall on April 2.

"For some reason, this just seemed a little different ? it was more than just a sick joke someone was playing," one student told FOX News about those bomb threats.

floodcitygirl
04-16-2007, 11:47 AM
I just heard a report that there may be more than 30 dead. My Lord!

83-Steelers-43
04-16-2007, 01:47 PM
Fed source at this point: 32 dead

Fox news has stated that there was one shooter. He is now dead. The police stated that he shot himself. He had two handguns. Fox news reported that he was looking for his girlfriend and MSNBC stated that he was upset with a professor. Lined up students and shot them execution style.

My question, what in the hell took so long for the campus security and police to arrive? The first shootings occured at 7:15. That's when the 911 call went out. The scumbag then went to the opposite side of the campus and at around 10:00 the second shootings occured.

floodcitygirl
04-16-2007, 01:53 PM
I just heard an interview with a newsguy from that area. He's saying they expect the death count to rise due to the severity of wounds inflicted.

Livinginthe past
04-16-2007, 02:12 PM
Absolutely shocking!

How do these 'regular students' have such easy access to weaponry that has clips you can pj to a bullet proof vest?

What are we talking here - semi-automatic?

I expect Charlton Heston and his NRA cronies will be busy scheduling a visit to Virginia.

memphissteelergirl
04-16-2007, 02:13 PM
Fed source at this point: 32 dead

Fox news has stated that there was one shooter. He is now dead. The police stated that he shot himself. He had two handguns. Fox news reported that he was looking for his girlfriend and MSNBC stated that he was upset with a professor. Lined up students and shot them execution style.

My question, what in the hell took so long for the campus security and police to arrive? The first shootings occured at 7:15. That's when the 911 call went out. The scumbag then went to the opposite side of the campus and at around 10:00 the second shootings occured.


I hate to sound cynical, but I think the sharks (civil lawyers) are going to be circling around the victims' families looking for a class action suit against VT.

steelersfanmx
04-16-2007, 02:32 PM
wow... sorry to read this, is really sad and shocking!..

Preacher
04-16-2007, 02:55 PM
First... My condolences to ALL families touched by this horrible incident.

I also feel a need to post this...

Here is what I fear is going to happen.

over the next few days and weeks... The story is going to morph into the evil of guns. How guns are the problem. How the gun makers are to blame.

In that context, people are going to forget that there was a disturbed human being who devalued life to the point that he felt it okay to destroy the lives of 30 plus people.

the REAL question here is NOT how did he get the gun. the REAL question is, how did we as a society come to a place were people could care less about other humans... And yes, I will posit the answer...

1. No greater judgement after death... regardless of specific religion.

2. We have devalued life to the point of irrelevancy. Human life is no more important then animals. As such, it is okay to put animals to sleep when we are done with them... so why not our girlfriends/boyfriends... etc.

3. We have removed mores and values from society that guided the way people act and react.


Now I know, some may say that my post was too soon. I apologize. But I wanted to get people thinking about the REAL problems here.

polamalufan43
04-16-2007, 02:59 PM
First... My condolences to ALL families touched by this horrible incident.

I also feel a need to post this...

Here is what I fear is going to happen.

over the next few days and weeks... The story is going to morph into the evil of guns. How guns are the problem. How the gun makers are to blame.

In that context, people are going to forget that there was a disturbed human being who devalued life to the point that he felt it okay to destroy the lives of 30 plus people.

the REAL question here is NOT how did he get the gun. the REAL question is, how did we as a society come to a place were people could care less about other humans... And yes, I will posit the answer...

1. No greater judgement after death... regardless of specific religion.

2. We have devalued life to the point of irrelevancy. Human life is no more important then animals. As such, it is okay to put animals to sleep when we are done with them... so why not our girlfriends/boyfriends... etc.

3. We have removed mores and values from society that guided the way people act and react.


Now I know, some may say that my post was too soon. I apologize. But I wanted to get people thinking about the REAL problems here.

I hate to agree with this one because it is so well, I don;t even have a word for it, but I think yinz know what I mean here. It is true, especially with number 2. People just walk around saying that how much they want so and so to be dead, and even though they might not seriously mean that, they don't realize things, I guess you could say. It's like someone is causing an injustice to you, and because so you have a "right" to kill them.
~Polamalufan43:tt02:

SteelCityMan786
04-16-2007, 03:02 PM
According to the lastest at ESPN. 31 are dead.

polamalufan43
04-16-2007, 03:04 PM
According to the lastest at ESPN. 31 are dead.

Dang, what happened that so many died in such a short amout of time. I'm guessing the gunman just started running around and firing. What could make someone do that?

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

SteelCityMan786
04-16-2007, 03:09 PM
THIS JUST IN FROM KDKA. Hillary Strollo.(I don't know if that's how it's spelt) from Gibsonia was shot twice but is living)

HometownGal
04-16-2007, 03:09 PM
First... My condolences to ALL families touched by this horrible incident.

I also feel a need to post this...

Here is what I fear is going to happen.

over the next few days and weeks... The story is going to morph into the evil of guns. How guns are the problem. How the gun makers are to blame.

In that context, people are going to forget that there was a disturbed human being who devalued life to the point that he felt it okay to destroy the lives of 30 plus people.

the REAL question here is NOT how did he get the gun. the REAL question is, how did we as a society come to a place were people could care less about other humans... And yes, I will posit the answer...

1. No greater judgement after death... regardless of specific religion.

2. We have devalued life to the point of irrelevancy. Human life is no more important then animals. As such, it is okay to put animals to sleep when we are done with them... so why not our girlfriends/boyfriends... etc.

3. We have removed mores and values from society that guided the way people act and react.


Now I know, some may say that my post was too soon. I apologize. But I wanted to get people thinking about the REAL problems here.

Great post, Father. :cheers: Couldn't agree with you more, especially Point #3.

As I'm sure you will agree, guns don't kill people. People kill people.

Thursday is the 8th anniversary of the Columbine shootings - could this be a kopy-kat massacre? :jawdrop:

SteelCityMan786
04-16-2007, 03:10 PM
Dang, what happened that so many died in such a short amout of time. I'm guessing the gunman just started running around and firing. What could make someone do that?

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

I'm just saying thank god my school was fortunate to avoid one of these kind of acts back early on in the school year. We were threatened with violence not once but TWICE!

polamalufan43
04-16-2007, 03:13 PM
Yeah, there was something about this at another school near my house. But nothing ahppened and it was just a prank.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

SteelCityMan786
04-16-2007, 03:25 PM
Great post, Father. :cheers: Couldn't agree with you more, especially Point #3.

As I'm sure you will agree, guns don't kill people. People kill people.

Thursday is the 8th anniversary of the Columbine shootings - could this be a kopy-kat massacre? :jawdrop:

I just hope I don't have to live it myself.

SteelCityMan786
04-16-2007, 03:30 PM
From the Post Gazette website

Gunman, 30 Others Killed in Va. Shooting

By SUE LINDSEY
Associated Press Writer

BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) -- A gunman opened fire in a Virginia Tech dorm and then, two hours later, in a classroom across campus Monday, killing at least 30 people in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history, government officials told The Associated Press. The gunman was killed, bringing the death toll to 31.

Students and a Virginia Tech employee said the first e-mail warning they got from the university about the rampage came more than two hours after the first shots were fired - by which time the gunman had struck again.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/VIRGINIA_TECH_SHOOTING?SITE=PAPIT&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=home.htm

MACH1
04-16-2007, 03:54 PM
Dang, what happened that so many died in such a short amout of time. I'm guessing the gunman just started running around and firing. What could make someone do that?

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

One of the news channels said he lined them up and shot them execution style, they didn't say which building it was or the first or second attack.

SteelCityMan786
04-16-2007, 03:56 PM
83 Said it was FOX News that said that.

http://post-gazette.com/pg/07106/778468-100.stm

Va. Tech students from W. Pa. describe campus shootings

By Colin Dunlap and Dennis B. Roddy, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

For Brent Dillie, a fourth-year engineering student from Upper St. Clair at Virginia Tech, the call he got after his 11 a.m. class today from his girlfriend was nothing out of the ordinary.

But her news was. A gunman was killing people: at least 31, including himself, the worst mass shooting in American history.

"But for this many people to be shot, wow, really it is surreal," Mr. Dillie, 22, said.

Will Snyder, 19, a wrestler at Virginia Tech who graduated from Elizabeth-Forward High School, also described the campus scene as "surreal."

"Looking out my dorm window, it is like a movie scene," he said. "There are police everywhere and ambulances everywhere. I've never seen anything like it and never thought I would see anything like this."

Students were described as diving out of windows and hunkering in dorm room corners, trying to stay safe from the still unidentified gunman.

Mr. Dillie said his girlfriend told him there was a shooting at the Ambler-Johnson dorm, which is one of the biggest dorms on campus.

"Everyone is saying that there was this guy who went there and shot his girlfriend and then shot the [residence assistant] who stepped in and reacted to the shooting," Mr. Dillie said.

More than two dozen people were reported injured.

Mr. Dillie's brother, Scott, a sophomore at Virginia Tech, had just finished soccer practice and was down in the locker room when he got a text message. "The text said two people had been shot in one of the dorm rooms," Scott Dillie said. "Our soccer fields are right next to the dorm where this happened and as we were looking over all the cops came running out of that dorm, which is West Ambler-Johnson. They then across to the second site to where there was shooting."

"I feel like it could have happened anywhere," he said. "It kind of gives the campus a bad name, but it could have happened anywhere. It hasn't sunk in yet. I feel bad for all the kids and the University."

Mr. Snyder, an industrial design major, said he was at wrestling practice when the first shooting occurred. When he left practice for class, he saw police officers raid a nearby dorm.

"I don't know if they were SWAT team member or what, but they went into the dorm."

He went quickly to his dorm and was told to gather in the basement with other students.

As the news out of Blacksburg, Va. filtered in to area parents with children at the college, disbelief quickly gave way to stark fear when they found phone lines jammed.

"My husband called me at work and said he couldn't reach our son," said Donna Kaczanoski, of Bethel Park, whose son, Jonathan, is a junior math major at the school.

"My first reaction was I was devastated. Devastated."

When she couldn't get in touch with her son via his cell phone, she asked a nephew to try. Through the school's Corps of Cadets -- Jonathan is part of the campus' Air Force ROTC -- he learned her son was safe.

Soon after, she reached him on his cell.

"All he told me was that we was staying in his room," she said.

"It's unbelievable to me that this happened. Nobody knew about this [gunman] having guns? Somebody had to know."

Meanwhile, as more became known about the events of this morning, students began relating their own experiences. Some thought the influx of police and ambulances on campus had to do with several recent bomb hoaxes. Soon enough, though, they discovered the awful truth.

Caitlin Bluey, a junior majoring in Human Development, said she was leaving a cycling class she taught at the gymnasium across the walkway from West Ambler-Johnson this morning when a policeman waved her away.

"I was walking past the building and the cops came out and told me to get in my car and go back to my apartment," Miss Bluey said.

When she returned to her apartment, just off campus, she received a campus-wide email telling students not to come onto campus and, for those with dormitory rooms, to stay indoors and away from windows.

Miss Bluey, 20, who graduated from Upper St. Clair High School and whose father serves on the school board there, spent today with a friend, Leah Croker, a junior finance major who graduated from North Allegheny High School.

"There are still some people we know that we haven't heard from," Miss Bluey said. "I'm just distraught right now. I know it'll definitely hit once we know actual names and pictures are put up. I know for a fact that if there are that many who died there's going to be someone I know."

Miss Croker said one friend was inside Norris Hall, the scene of the worst parts of the rampage, when the shooting broke out. Both women described the young man as devastated, hardly able to speak.

"We just started calling all our friends and making sure everybody was OK," Miss Croker said. "We're trying to account for our friends. There are some people that are still missing that were around that area or had classes in that building, that we're still trying to contact."

SteelCityMan786
04-16-2007, 03:57 PM
VA Tech President Stated now the death toll is 33.

Preacher
04-16-2007, 04:03 PM
how sad....

how utterely sad.

SteelCityMan786
04-16-2007, 04:07 PM
how sad....

how utterely sad.

yeah. I can't believe this.

I heard the one student shot was a Pine Richland Student. My Prayers go to the family as also the other 30 students that died. And the near 20 who were shot and lived, may got let them recover and live on.

SteelCityMan786
04-16-2007, 04:19 PM
Virginia Tech has cancelled Classes and athletic events.

Good Idea by the University. I applaud them for taking this route. You don't need other events going on during this time.

Atlanta Dan
04-16-2007, 07:36 PM
First... My condolences to ALL families touched by this horrible incident.

I also feel a need to post this...

Here is what I fear is going to happen.

over the next few days and weeks... The story is going to morph into the evil of guns. How guns are the problem. How the gun makers are to blame.

In that context, people are going to forget that there was a disturbed human being who devalued life to the point that he felt it okay to destroy the lives of 30 plus people.

the REAL question here is NOT how did he get the gun. the REAL question is, how did we as a society come to a place were people could care less about other humans... And yes, I will posit the answer...

1. No greater judgement after death... regardless of specific religion.

2. We have devalued life to the point of irrelevancy. Human life is no more important then animals. As such, it is okay to put animals to sleep when we are done with them... so why not our girlfriends/boyfriends... etc.

3. We have removed mores and values from society that guided the way people act and react.


Now I know, some may say that my post was too soon. I apologize. But I wanted to get people thinking about the REAL problems here.

I agree this is no time to advance a political agenda; guess everyone did not get the memo. When it comes to making political points rather than simply express sympathy for the dead and their families in a time of national tragedy, nobody is quicker on the draw than the Bush White House, as evidenced by the press secretary's comments this afternoon :

As far as policy, the President believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed. And certainly bringing a gun into a school dormitory and shooting -- I don't want to say numbers because I know that they're still trying to figure out many people were wounded and possibly killed, but obviously that would be against the law and something that someone should be held accountable for.

Great moral leadership and insight there.

The left wing will no doubt soon be bleating about the need for more gun control, but for the White House to be waving the Second Amendment flag at this time is as obscene as reminding people to drink responsibly when asked to comment about someone being killed by a drunk driver.

SteelCityMan786
04-16-2007, 07:54 PM
Comments from Rudy Giuliani's Campaign Website. JoinRudy.com

"On this day of national tragedy, when we lost some of our finest to a senseless act, we stand together as a country to mourn those who lost their lives.

"My thoughts and prayers continue to be with the survivors and the many friends, colleagues and family members of those who perished. May God bless them all."

-Rudy Giuliani

MACH1
04-16-2007, 08:06 PM
On Fox they are saying the shooter was a chinese national who had only been in the country for about a year.

GBMelBlount
04-16-2007, 10:10 PM
Absolutely shocking!

How do these 'regular students' have such easy access to weaponry that has clips you can pj to a bullet proof vest?

What are we talking here - semi-automatic?

I expect Charlton Heston and his NRA cronies will be busy scheduling a visit to Virginia.

Actually they will be confirming that guns don't create crime. criminals do. In fact if more had guns, crime & death would be less. If you do the research. Anywhere guns are legal, crime is down...Pray for the innocent who lost their lives.

Preacher
04-16-2007, 10:16 PM
I agree this is no time to advance a political agenda; guess everyone did not get the memo. When it comes to making political points rather than simply express sympathy for the dead and their families in a time of national tragedy, nobody is quicker on the draw than the Bush White House, as evidenced by the press secretary's comments this afternoon :

As far as policy, the President believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed. And certainly bringing a gun into a school dormitory and shooting -- I don't want to say numbers because I know that they're still trying to figure out many people were wounded and possibly killed, but obviously that would be against the law and something that someone should be held accountable for.

Great moral leadership and insight there.

The left wing will no doubt soon be bleating about the need for more gun control, but for the White House to be waving the Second Amendment flag at this time is as obscene as reminding people to drink responsibly when asked to comment about someone being killed by a drunk driver.

Actually...

What I read is..

There will be no policy change based on this incident. How in the WORLD is that politicizing an incident? Running out to ban certain guns.. or for a politician to use this to call for an end to TV violence... etc. is politics.

What Bush did is neither. In that... With all due respect Dan... I think your wrong. It wasn't politicizing... it was REMOVING the politics, IN THE BEGINNING.

I consider that moral leadership.

GBMelBlount
04-16-2007, 10:17 PM
Comments from Rudy Giuliani's Campaign Website. JoinRudy.com

Bless the victims. I'm waiting for HC to blame this on the gun. Noone is responsible for their actions...........

GBMelBlount
04-16-2007, 10:19 PM
GB the AD post

tony hipchest
04-16-2007, 10:24 PM
Comments from Rudy Giuliani's Campaign Website. JoinRudy.com

:spam:

PAMillerGrrl83
04-16-2007, 10:33 PM
What scares me is that my fiance was supposed to attend VT for a pharmacy degree and another girl I know does go to VT but wasnt harmed because thankfully she was sick with the flu at her apartment. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families.

Preacher
04-16-2007, 10:35 PM
What scares me is that my fiance was supposed to attend VT for a pharmacy degree and another girl I know does go to VT but wasnt harmed because thankfully she was sick with the flu at her apartment. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families.


I hope that all is okay with your family.. friends... and the friends of the girl you know... my prayers go out to her..

GBMelBlount
04-16-2007, 10:45 PM
I hope that all is okay with your family.. friends... and the friends of the girl you know... my prayers go out to her..

My prayers too.

klick81
04-16-2007, 10:51 PM
I've been reading about this all day at work...I never imagined anything worse than Columbine (short of war). What a freakin' nightmare...

GBMelBlount
04-16-2007, 11:10 PM
I've been reading about this all day at work...I never imagined anything worse than Columbine (short of war). What a freakin' nightmare...

Many have forgotten the twin towers. These mislead Sheetsticks are a problem, but pale in comparison to what we are still vulnerable too....Watch Jericho, old episodes are "on demand"....that will put stuff in perspective. GB America!

83-Steelers-43
04-17-2007, 09:47 AM
Virginia Tech Police Identify Shooter as South Korean Student: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266500,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/041707_shooter.jpg

83-Steelers-43
04-17-2007, 11:18 AM
Pine-Richland graduate wounded; describes slaughter in classroom: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07107/778652-54.stm

Atlanta Dan
04-17-2007, 12:08 PM
Actually...

What I read is..

There will be no policy change based on this incident. How in the WORLD is that politicizing an incident? Running out to ban certain guns.. or for a politician to use this to call for an end to TV violence... etc. is politics.

What Bush did is neither. In that... With all due respect Dan... I think your wrong. It wasn't politicizing... it was REMOVING the politics, IN THE BEGINNING.

I consider that moral leadership.

My point was that simple condolences would have been enough, as evidenced by the difference between the statement I quoted from the White House and the straightforward expression of sympathy from the Giuliani campaign. IMHO there was no need to throw in talking points for the base about the Second Amendment.

Preacher
04-17-2007, 12:51 PM
My point was that simple condolences would have been enough, as evidenced by the difference between the statement I quoted from the White House and the straightforward expression of sympathy from the Giuliani campaign. IMHO there was no need to throw in talking points for the base about the Second Amendment.


Well... I see it somewhat different... as heading off a debate that doesn't need to happen...

However, here is a question that I would like to know your thoughts on, since we seem to always differ, and since you also seem to really think out your posts...

Have you noticed that this shooting breaks a profile? Normally, it is a young, white, middle class male that shoots up a school. Why is this different? What is the possibility that the shooter was 3rd, 4th or 5th generation American, and so removed from the Korean culture that he is thoroughly Americanized?

There is something very different about this shooting. Not just the time lapse between the two events, but everything. I would like to hear your thoughts.

EDIT: I just read that he was actually here on a Green Card from S. Korea. Here is the link http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8OIEVG00&show_article=1

So this whole thing gets even stranger... Was it an unraveling of his societal norms... or was he simply disturbed?

klick81
04-17-2007, 04:56 PM
Many have forgotten the twin towers. These mislead Sheetsticks are a problem, but pale in comparison to what we are still vulnerable too....Watch Jericho, old episodes are "on demand"....that will put stuff in perspective. GB America!

The twin towers were a declaration of war. IMO, this is different.

MACH1
04-17-2007, 05:21 PM
Being here on a green card, doesn't that make it illegal for him to even have firearms? If so how or where did he get them?

Something no matter how much gun control there is this guy would have had them anyways. IMO

Borski
04-17-2007, 07:04 PM
I thought a green card made him a legal resident, so wouldnt that give him the right to own a firearm , or am I mistaken?

This whole thing is messed up, why would someone kill tons of people and then kill himself?? If he wanted to commit suicide why not just do it instead of ruining everyone elses lives?? I'm suspecting he definatly had a extreme psychological disorder, if this turns out to be true we as a country need to make tests for detecting that when people move to this country and also when purchasing a weapon. I'm not saying guns are bad, people kill people, not guns, but we need to have a test for psychological disorders when purchasing them so to help prevent this from happening.

MACH1
04-17-2007, 07:17 PM
I thought a green card made him a legal resident, so wouldnt that give him the right to own a firearm , or am I mistaken?

This whole thing is messed up, why would someone kill tons of people and then kill himself?? If he wanted to commit suicide why not just do it instead of ruining everyone elses lives?? I'm suspecting he definatly had a extreme psychological disorder, if this turns out to be true we as a country need to make tests for detecting that when people move to this country and also when purchasing a weapon. I'm not saying guns are bad, people kill people, not guns, but we need to have a test for psychological disorders when purchasing them so to help prevent this from happening.

I'm not sure how it works with green cards. No amount of testing is always going to tell when or if someone is going to go off the deep end, might catch a few nuts that way but not all.

tony hipchest
04-17-2007, 07:23 PM
as a resident alien, all he needed to purchase a gun was 3 forms of id and go through the regulatory state check like all other americans. in this case the gunstores cant be held liable. it was legit.

Borski
04-17-2007, 07:25 PM
I'm not sure how it works with green cards. No amount of testing is always going to tell when or if someone is going to go off the deep end, might catch a few nuts that way but not all.

Your right, it wont catch everyone, but there are tests to see if people have a sever psychological disorder and if people are tested to have this I dont think they should be allowed to move here or be able to own a gun permit.

Atlanta Dan
04-17-2007, 08:02 PM
Well... I see it somewhat different... as heading off a debate that doesn't need to happen...

However, here is a question that I would like to know your thoughts on, since we seem to always differ, and since you also seem to really think out your posts...

Have you noticed that this shooting breaks a profile? Normally, it is a young, white, middle class male that shoots up a school. Why is this different? What is the possibility that the shooter was 3rd, 4th or 5th generation American, and so removed from the Korean culture that he is thoroughly Americanized?

There is something very different about this shooting. Not just the time lapse between the two events, but everything. I would like to hear your thoughts.

EDIT: I just read that he was actually here on a Green Card from S. Korea. Here is the link http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8OIEVG00&show_article=1

So this whole thing gets even stranger... Was it an unraveling of his societal norms... or was he simply disturbed?

Preacher - Actually I think we consistently agree on one big point, which is to respect that someone else can have a differing opinion (as you and I often do) on substantive matters but that when they think that opinion through (as you do in your posts) it merits consideration.

I will not belabor my clear views on the current Administration, but I was taken by your observation that the statement yesterday about the Second Amendment was designed "to head off a debate that doesn't need to happen." Heading off debates that it unilaterally decides do not need to happen on so many issues is a big reason the Bush Administration currently is upside down in the ditch and not on the best of terms with certain Amendments to the Constitution other than the Second.

As for why the shooter flipped, I agree he does not fit one of the three key variables for the profile of white male loner but fits two of the three. Since I do not believe any race is more hard wired for violence than another but do think males are more likely to go postal than females, my uneducated guess is that his underlying psychoses, in a society where technology exponentially increases the damage one "superempowered angry man" can do and the traditional buffers against anti-social behavior have broken down, were able to be unleashed and destroy so many lives.

It may be a part of a worldwide problem as traditional societal restraints break down during a period of tremendous economic and technological change. The last two Pontiffs have spoken repeatedly on this subject. For a more secular perspective, you might find this article on Bin Laden and his ilk that Thomas Friedman of The New York Times wrote three years before 9-11 interesting.

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/editorial/98/08/25/friedman-4923111.0-2.html

The linked article ends with this statement "My grace is sufficient for thee.II Corinthians 12:9" I am pretty confident that was not part of Friedman's column.

Bottom line - people as a whole probably are no crazier then ever, but advances in technology have enhanced their individual abilities to wreak havoc (see - e.g. - flying 757s into buildings) and the familial, social, and spiritual safety webs of caring to keep such people in check are in tatters.

In closing, thanks for your thoughtful response to my earlier post.

SteelCzar76
04-17-2007, 08:59 PM
people as a whole probably are no crazier then ever, but advances in technology have enhanced their individual abilities to wreak havoc (see - e.g. - flying 757s into buildings) and the familial, social, and spiritual safety webs of caring to keep such people in check are in tatters.




Exactly. And this in turn renders "power" to Jackels whom are unworthy to wield it. Allowing them to create 'chaos' simply for the sake of personal gain. In the form of a satisfactory suicidal "statement" (in their eyes.)
Along with instilling the neccessary "fear" and ignorance that is greatly effective in the use of controlling masses of those that lack any true measure of worth themselves.
Utimatley,....the flaws, savagery and inconsistencey of Politics (like everything else created by the hands of mankind),... is simply a reflection of it's suppossed "creators".

GBMelBlount
04-17-2007, 09:06 PM
AD, Ugh!

Atlanta Dan
04-17-2007, 09:16 PM
GBMelBlount - Gee - well I guess we can agree to disagree.:smile:

I was responding to your initial post, which had a variety of observations about the Clintons, Bush keeping us safe, and offshore oil drilling by the Chinese before you did some major editing down to "Ugh" Not certain if it was my views on the current White House occupant or more general observations on society that prompted your response but thanks for reading what I posted.

GBMelBlount
04-17-2007, 09:52 PM
I just saw a special on those killed in Virginia (on ABC) when you learn about the speciefics of all those killed, it makes it so much more real. What a crying shame.

Atlanta Dan
04-17-2007, 10:16 PM
I just saw a special on those killed in Virginia (on ABC) when you learn about the speciefics of all those killed, it makes it so much more real. What a crying shame.

On that point, here is a link to a Washington Post article that provides bios of the victims - words fail me.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/17/AR2007041701491.html?hpid=topnews

Preacher
04-17-2007, 10:27 PM
You know Dan...

It is days and weeks like these...

That is seems worth becoming a Luddite... in its present form. I would have nothing to do with Ned Ludd

EDIT: Of course, I realized I typed that on a computer, through the internet, while watching the Seattle Mariners on TV through a Satelite system.

SteelCzar76
04-17-2007, 11:01 PM
I just saw a special on those killed in Virginia (on ABC) when you learn about the speciefics of all those killed, it makes it so much more real. What a crying shame.


One of the greatest 'shames' IMO was the incompetance of the University and local authorities regarding properly controlling the situation.
Certainly no one can control the actions of a maniac. (As far as his decision making after plotting)
But they should have done a better job concerning precautionary procedure after they found the initial victims. Which could very well have saved many of the other lives that were destroyed.

Atlanta Dan
04-17-2007, 11:01 PM
You know Dan...

It is days and weeks like these...

That is seems worth becoming a Luddite... in its present form. I would have nothing to do with Ned Ludd

EDIT: Of course, I realized I typed that on a computer, through the internet, while watching the Seattle Mariners on TV through a Satelite system.

When it comes to technology I guess you take the poison with the gift. Society has been through turbulence before, as evidenced by what one poet wrote coming out of World War I.

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

http://www.potw.org/archive/potw351.html

This admittedly is far afield from the usual subjects on a Steelers board- maybe I can figure out some way to link this up with Tom Brady fathering a child out of wedlock.

tony hipchest
04-17-2007, 11:06 PM
its seems the culprit in this was very americanized. pardon my pseudo psycho analysis but here it goes:

he developed a crush with his initial victim, and finally got the balls up to take action, possibly ask her out. im thinking she wasnt into him, and probably wasnt into asian men (as far as a relationship was concerned). she maybe liked him "as a person" though (although im thinking she was pretty much a minor aquaintance who didnt even know him but rejected his advance).

im not trying to turn this into a racial issue but just trying to understand the psychology of it. while he could do his best to assimilate, he couldnt be your typical image of a young american who had all the success with the ladies. if he failed with her (possibly his 1st try in dating your typical american girl) it could be, he felt he was always destined to fail, no matter what .

his letter stating "you made me do this" says alot, as did his diatribe against the wealthy kids. he was the same age as many of the kids were during the columbine tragedy. in his own sick perverse way, he probably had the same feelings of isolation and not fitting in as the 2 freaks in columbine.

:hunch: like i said, i have nothing to base this on, its just my initial feelings based on pictures of the people involved and the weird writings he left behind. im 99% certain, initial reports of a boyfriend killing an (ex)girlfriend were far off.

Preacher
04-17-2007, 11:08 PM
When it comes to technology I guess you take the poison with the gift. Society has been through turbulence before, as evidenced by what one poet wrote coming out of World War I.

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

http://www.potw.org/archive/potw351.html

This admittedly is far afield from the usual subjects on a Steelers board- maybe I can figure out some way to link this up with Tom Brady fathering a child out of wedlock.

I for one don't beleive that technology is evil. However, I beleive it so over-exposes everyone and everything to everyone and everything else, that at times, we short-circuit ourselves in trying to come to terms with reality.

SteelCzar76
04-17-2007, 11:08 PM
When it comes to technology I guess you take the poison with the gift. Society has been through turbulence before, as evidenced by what one poet wrote coming out of World War I.

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

http://www.potw.org/archive/potw351.html

This admittedly is far afield from the usual subjects on a Steelers board- maybe I can figure out some way to link this up with Tom Brady fathering a child out of wedlock.





And "Poets" are generally the ones whom though they do no harm,....are of no help either. As they are cowards whom rest in the comfort of not having to face duty as they wallow in the arms of their own false sense of self righteousness.

tony hipchest
04-17-2007, 11:10 PM
One of the greatest 'shames' IMO was the incompetance of the University and local authorities regarding properly controlling the situation.
Certainly no one can control the actions of a maniac. (As far as his decision making after plotting)
But they should have done a better job concerning precautionary procedure after they found the initial victims. Which could very well have saved many of the other lives that were destroyed.like i told my fiancee... "we live in a town of 30,000-,35,000 people. if i flip out and kill you, are they gonna go and shut down all schools and the local wal mart?

the college coulda closed the whole campus. he woulda just gone across the street to somewhere off campus and continued his rampage.

more lives probably coulda been saved, but hindsight is always 20/20

Atlanta Dan
04-17-2007, 11:18 PM
I for one don't beleive that technology is evil. However, I beleive it so over-exposes everyone and everything to everyone and everything else, that at times, we short-circuit ourselves in trying to come to terms with reality.

Technology is amoral but its consequences can overturn existing structures that impose existing moral order. Since biology cannot keep up with technology then technology may (sooner than we think) move in to control biology since a free market allows any product to seek its price point.

Atlanta Dan
04-17-2007, 11:24 PM
its seems the culprit in this was very americanized. pardon my pseudo psycho analysis but here it goes:

he developed a crush with his initial victim, and finally got the balls up to take action, possibly ask her out. im thinking she wasnt into him, and probably wasnt into asian men (as far as a relationship was concerned). she maybe liked him "as a person" though (although im thinking she was pretty much a minor aquaintance who didnt even know him but rejected his advance).

im not trying to turn this into a racial issue but just trying to understand the psychology of it. while he could do his best to assimilate, he couldnt be your typical image of a young american who had all the success with the ladies. if he failed with her (possibly his 1st try in dating your typical american girl) it could be, he felt he was always destined to fail, no matter what .

his letter stating "you made me do this" says alot, as did his diatribe against the wealthy kids. he was the same age as many of the kids were during the columbine tragedy. in his own sick perverse way, he probably had the same feelings of isolation and not fitting in as the 2 freaks in columbine.

:hunch: like i said, i have nothing to base this on, its just my initial feelings based on pictures of the people involved and the weird writings he left behind. im 99% certain, initial reports of a boyfriend killing an (ex)girlfriend were far off.

According to Nightline the initial victim had an actual boyfriend and no ties with the perp (she probably smiled at him once or he saw her on FaceBook and he went off on that to form a "relationship").

Media went with early 20s guy killing young woman and decided they were Romeo & Juliet - typical cable news bulls**t.

SteelCzar76
04-17-2007, 11:24 PM
like i told my fiancee... "we live in a town of 30,000-,35,000 people. if i flip out and kill you, are they gonna go and shut down all schools and the local wal mart?

the college coulda closed the whole campus. he woulda just gone across the street to somewhere off campus and continued his rampage.

more lives probably coulda been saved, but hindsight is always 20/20




But the odds of him makiing it to a Walmart or continuing to Kill on Campus would have been greatly reduced had they ' locked the Campus down' immediatley upon finding the first victims.
Wouldn't relative time of death along with the length of time they had been deceased of the victims stand to reason that their murderer was POSSIBLY still in the vicinity to some extent.
Though not a certainty,....would'nt it have been wise to possibly ere on the side of caution just simply for this possibilty no matter how 'far fetched' or unlikey it may have 'seemed' at the time.
IMO that's common sense and has nothing to do with 'retrospect'.

tony hipchest
04-17-2007, 11:59 PM
But the odds of him makiing it to a Walmart or continuing to Kill on Campus would have been greatly reduced had they ' locked the Campus down' immediatley upon finding the first victims.
Wouldn't relative time of death along with the length of time they had been deceased of the victims stand to reason that their murderer was POSSIBLY still in the vicinity to some extent.
Though not a certainty,....would'nt it have been wise to possibly ere on the side of caution just simply for this possibilty no matter how 'far fetched' or unlikey it may have 'seemed' at the time.
IMO that's common sense and has nothing to do with 'retrospect'.i think you miss the point. youre talking about a campus 26,000 strong and 2 hours to regroup. campus police coulda shut down the classes but what were they gonna do about the hypothetical wal mart across the street, off of campus property?

are you suggesting any time there is a homicide in a town of 26,000 they should shut down the whole town to ensure further murders dont happen?

they tried that with malveaux and muhammed in a hugely populated area and the murders kept happening until the perps slipped up.

"where theres a will, theres a way".

if this "they" you talk about were so strong and almighty to "lock the campus down", they wouldve/shouldve apprehended him before he even left the dorm where his 1st 2 victims were found, right. :hunch:

tony hipchest
04-18-2007, 12:12 AM
According to Nightline the initial victim had an actual boyfriend and no ties with the perp (she probably smiled at him once or he saw her on FaceBook and he went off on that to form a "relationship").

Media went with early 20s guy killing young woman and decided they were Romeo & Juliet - typical cable news bulls**t.

not supprising, and i agree w/ your take. im watching interviews with 2 of his roomates from last year and the picture is becomming much clearer. he was trying to pick up local chicks on AIM last year. he was pretty much a loner who was evolving into an obsessive cyber stalker. his roomates said they felt they were more of a "watchdog" than a roomate. they actually warned several girls, and alerted the authorities, to which he responded "i might as well kill myself".

appearantly the band "collective soul" and one of their songs became one of his obsessions :rolleys:

sorry to simplify this, but he seems like a geek who was trying to get his mack on with popular girls. he had no game. he finally realized this (and that he was gonna continue to get rejected), flipped, and finally went off.

SteelCzar76
04-18-2007, 05:47 AM
i think you miss the point. youre talking about a campus 26,000 strong and 2 hours to regroup. campus police coulda shut down the classes but what were they gonna do about the hypothetical wal mart across the street, off of campus property?

are you suggesting any time there is a homicide in a town of 26,000 they should shut down the whole town to ensure further murders dont happen?

they tried that with malveaux and muhammed in a hugely populated area and the murders kept happening until the perps slipped up.

"where theres a will, theres a way".

if this "they" you talk about were so strong and almighty to "lock the campus down", they wouldve/shouldve apprehended him before he even left the dorm where his 1st 2 victims were found, right. :hunch:



We're just going to have to 'agree to disagree' on this one Tone. IMO as i said,...the University, Campus Police and the local authorities 'dropped the ball'.

SteelCzar76
04-18-2007, 05:58 AM
sorry to simplify this, but he seems like a geek who was trying to get his mack on with popular girls. he had no game. he finally realized this (and that he was gonna continue to get rejected), flipped, and finally went off.



Now i will agree with you on this point however. And i think this is a testament to how effeminate our culture has become.
That many whom are suppossed to young men are weak enough to let getting rejected by a few a "honeys" cause them to go to such destructive lengths ?
What ever happened to "Step your game up" and or "For every 1 that won't,.. there's 3 that will" ?
Or even better yet,...focus upon what you are at School for in the first place,.....buisness.:dang: LMAO
There'll will be plenty of time for all the other things later.

83-Steelers-43
04-18-2007, 08:32 AM
sorry to simplify this, but he seems like a geek who was trying to get his mack on with popular girls. he had no game. he finally realized this (and that he was gonna continue to get rejected), flipped, and finally went off.


W/e happened to the days of "Lucas"?

http://www.videodetective.com/photos/000/000005_28.jpg

83-Steelers-43
04-18-2007, 09:11 AM
I'm no criminal psychologist, but IMO this scumbag hated everybody. Women and rich people (oh yeah, his sister went to Princeton) in particular. He shot black people, white people and asian people. If he had a button to end the world when police were closing in on him I believe he would have pushed it.

IMO, it boils down to pure evil.

klick81
04-18-2007, 09:54 AM
I kind of have a hard time believing that this was about a girl. The guy just had issues up there.

83-Steelers-43
04-18-2007, 10:18 AM
I kind of have a hard time believing that this was about a girl. The guy just had issues up there.

I agree. While the girl issue may have sparked it (pure speculation), this animal had some serious issues stirring around upstairs. Scary.

tony hipchest
04-18-2007, 10:25 AM
i agree with his deep rooted issues and that he probably woulda ended the world if he had a way. rejection of a girl coulda been the breaking point.

they had someone talking about puting a psychological finger print together. his writings suggest he had problems with authority figure males, and inferiority issues. id say he was molested/raped as a child.

of course thats no excuse, but look at what just having 1 nut did to hitler.

"just another brick in the wall"

83-Steelers-43
04-18-2007, 10:28 AM
Another point which was brought up last night. Why wasn't he either suspended or kicked out of college after reports of stalking women and after he lit his dorm room on fire?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07108/778988-100.stm Red flags anybody? The very least they could have done was let the students aware that they had a wacko living next to them.

Instead he was issued "counseling". Ahh yes. Our cure for every moron in this country who decides to either break the law or who can't hack it in today's world. Warm, fuzzy counseling. Hey Cho, let's talk about why you lit your dorm on fire and continue to stalk women. We would never punish you, will we talk it over. We are now going to pump you full of antidepressants and send you on your way to murder 32 people. Good luck!!!

I don't know. It just seems this whole incident could have been avoided. The high death toll in particular. I'm not exactly sure how, but IMO there are many questions that need to be asked and should be answered by the police department and the college in the coming weeks.

83-Steelers-43
04-18-2007, 05:00 PM
He sent a package to NBC news during the two hours in between shootings.

FBI Examining Package Sent By Virginia Tech Gunman; Court Records Show Killer Ruled a Danger in 2005
Wednesday, April 18, 2007

BLACKSBURG, Va. — Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-Hui was declared "mentally ill and in need of hospitalization" and posed "an imminent danger," according to a 2005 temporary detention order issued by a Virginia district court.

That revelation came to light Wednesday as the FBI confirmed that Cho had sent a package to NBC News containing photographs, videos and several written documents — including a manifesto.

Sources told FOX News that a preliminary examination of the package shows the documents contain wording that is very similar to the notes that were reported to have been found in Cho's dorm room. One early theory is that Cho packaged and sent the same material.

Some of the photographs may show Cho posing with his guns in some fashion, sources said.

FBI officials also are concerned that NBC was not the only news organization to receive a package from Cho, but they have no evidence at this time that he sent anything to anyone else.

Revelations about the mad student gunman responsible for slaughtering 32 students and faculty Monday on the campus of Virginia Tech before killing himself continued to shock school investigators and the university community.

In November and December 2005, two women complained to campus police that they had received calls and computer messages from Cho, but they considered the messages "annoying," not threatening, and neither pressed charges, Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said.

Neither woman was among the victims in the massacre, police said.

Around the same time, one of Cho's professors informally shared some concerns about the young man's writings, but no official report was filed, Flinchum said.

The chief said he was not aware of any other contact between Cho and police after those episodes.

Court documents show that on Dec. 13, 2005, a Montgomery County District Court judge ordered Cho undergo mental evaluation at Carilion St. Albans Hospital.

The judge issued an order temporary detention order on the grounds that Cho was "mentally ill and in need of hospitalization, and presents an imminent danger to self or others as mental illness, or is seriously mentally ill as to be substantially unable to care for self, and is incapable of volunteering or unwilling to volunteer for treatment."

The order, obtained by FOX News, also includes findings from a Dec. 14 physician's examination that, briefly, shows a patient who is "flat and mood is depressed. He denies suicidal intentions. He does not acknowledge symptoms of a thought disorder. His insight and judgment and are normal."

A box on the order is checked as follows: "Presents an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness." The very next box, which is not checked, reads: "Presents an imminent danger to others as a result of mental illness."

The next day, according to court records, a special justice approved outpatient treatment for Cho.

Court papers indicate Cho was free to leave as of Dec. 14. Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker said Cho had been continually enrolled at Tech and never took a leave of absence.

A spokesman for Carilion St. Albans would not comment Wednesday.

After the first stalking incident, police referred Cho to the university's disciplinary system, Flinchum said.

But Ed Spencer, assistant vice president of student affairs, would not comment on any disciplinary proceedings, saying federal law protects students' medical privacy even after death. In any case, Cho remained enrolled up until his death.

The disclosures about Cho's past run-ins with authorities added to the rapidly growing list of warning signs that appeared well before 23-year-old student Cho went on his rampage. Among other things, Cho's twisted, violence-filled writings and sullen, vacant-eyed demeanor had disturbed professors and students so much that he was removed from one English class and was repeatedly urged to get counseling.

Campus police on Wednesday applied for search warrants for Cho's medical records from the campus health center and an off-campus facility. "It is reasonable to believe that the medical records may provide evidence of motive, intent and designs," investigators said in court papers.

Police searched Cho's dorm room and recovered, among other items, two computers, books, notebooks, a digital camera, and a chain and combination lock, according to documents. The front doors of Norris Hall, the classroom building where most of the victims died, had been chained shut from the inside during the rampage.

Fourteen people remained hospitalized Wednesday.

Cho's roommates and professors portrayed him as a creepy, solitary figure who rarely even made eye contact with his roommates, much less speak to them. They said they were never told he was suicidal.

His bizarre behavior became even less predictable in recent weeks, roommate Karan Grewal said. Grewal had pulled an all-nighter on homework the day of the shootings and saw Cho at around 5 a.m., although Cho didn't look him in the eye.

"Nothing seemed out of the ordinary, it seemed he had just woken up," Grewal told FOX News.

Grewal said Cho was "totally alone" every day, and never spoke to family or friends on the phone or via the Internet. He did spend a lot of time on the computer writing, however, Grewal said. But he would never talk to his roommates.

"He never showed anger on his face. Whenever I tried to talk to him, he would just sit there and ignore me, as if I was invisible," Grewal said. "He just sat there staring through space most of the time ... he showed no emotion ever."

Grewal said he and his other suitemates didn't even know Cho's major, or that he had a sister. They thought he was a business major and was surprised to find out after the shooting he was studying English, since they assumed his English wasn't very good, and that was why he never spoke.

Grewal said he would have made more of an effort to get to know Cho had he known of his social and mental problems.

"I tried to be friends with him but after multiple attempts and he showed no interest, I thought he just wanted to be lonely," Grewal said. "If I was told before he was depressed or suicidal, I definitely would have kept an eye open ... I definitely would have tried harder to be his friend or know a little bit better."

Authorities said he left a rambling note raging against women, religion and rich kids. News reports said that Cho, a South Korean immigrant who came to the U.S. as a boy and whose parents worked at a dry cleaners, may have been taking medication for depression.

Professors and classmates were alarmed by his class writings — pages filled with twisted, violence-drenched writing.

"It was not bad poetry. It was intimidating," poet Nikki Giovanni, one of his professors, told CNN.

"I know we're talking about a youngster, but troubled youngsters get drunk and jump off buildings," she said. "There was something mean about this boy. It was the meanness — I've taught troubled youngsters and crazy people — it was the meanness that bothered me. It was a really mean streak."

Giovanni said her students were so unnerved by Cho's behavior, including taking pictures of them with his cell phone, that some stopped coming to class and she had security check on her room. She eventually had him taken out of her class, after threatening to quit if he wasn't removed.

Lucinda Roy, a co-director of creative writing at Virginia Tech, said she tutored Cho after that. She said she tried to get him into counseling in late 2005 but he always refused.

"He was so distant and so lonely," she told ABC's "Good Morning America" Wednesday. "It was almost like talking to a hole, as though he wasn't there most of the time. He wore sunglasses and his hat very low so it was hard to see his face."

Roy also said she arranged to use a code word with her assistant to call police if she ever felt threatened by Cho, but she said she never used it.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266683,00.html

HometownGal
04-18-2007, 05:01 PM
Newest developments in this tragic and bizarre event. I just copied and pasted the first section - click the link below and read on for more.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/18/vtech.shooting/index.html

BLACKSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- The man blamed for killing at least 30 people in Monday's shootings on the Virginia Tech campus before killing himself mailed a package containing photographs and writings to NBC, authorities announced Wednesday.

NBC reported Cho Seung-Hui apparently mailed the package during the two-hour lull between the shootings at the West Ambler Johnston Hall dormitory and the shootings at Norris Hall.

"This may be a very new critical component of this investigation," State Police Col. Steve Flaherty said.

The network immediately notified authorities and the original documents were sent to the FBI for analysis, he said.

NBC reported that it agreed not to immediately disclose the contents of the package "beyond characterizing the material as 'disturbing.' "

CNN also learned Wednesday that in 2005 Cho was declared mentally ill by a Virginia special justice, who declared he was "an imminent danger" to himself, a court document states.

A temporary detention order from General District Court in the commonwealth of Virginia said Cho "presents an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness."

A box indicating that the subject "Presents an imminent danger to others as a result of mental illness" was not checked.

In another part of the form, Cho was described as "mentally ill and in need of hospitalization, and presents an imminent danger to self or others as a result of mental illness, or is so seriously mentally ill as to be substantially unable to care for self, and is incapable of volunteering or unwilling to volunteer for treatment."

A handwritten section of the form describes Cho. "Affect is flat and mood is depressed," said the order, which was signed December 14 by Special Justice Paul M. Barnett. "He denies suicidal ideation. He does not acknowledge symptoms of a thought disorder. His insight and judgment are normal."
Barnett would not discuss Cho's case with CNN.

tony hipchest
04-18-2007, 05:29 PM
dr. keith ablow (psychiatrist) on msnbc is making some great points. sure he needed to be hospitalized or committed. BUT whose gonna pay for it. common case of passing the buck. 3rd party payers (insurance companies) dont wanna foot the bill. the state dont want to foot the bill, and the hospitals dont want to foot the bill.

"the system is broken" "even the mental health crisis center might have failed", -when asked what the english professor who had read his writings couldve done.

Atlanta Dan
04-18-2007, 05:44 PM
NBC of course leads the evening news with the package the killer sent by Postal Service express mail, which he dropped off at the Post Office at 9:00 a.m. between murders.

In a YouTube world everyone can now literally be the star of their own movie, especially someone who is crazy as a rat in a coffee can

Wonder if NBC copied everything before it called the FBI, whether the FBI let them copy anything, and why, since the Post Office recognized the odd name and mailing address before delivering the package, the Postal Service did not call the FBI first?

In closing, not that we need any more evidence Cho was clinically insane, but the fact he entrusted his package to the Postal Service rather than FedEx for delivery shows he had lost all capacity for rational thought.

tony hipchest
04-18-2007, 05:56 PM
well theyre showing the pictures he sent (pretty evil and wicked- exactly what the victims last saw minus the menacing scowl) and clips of him ranting on video.

he was definitely lost and of course blaming anyone and everyone for turning him into this monster.

these talking heads are unbelievable. they are amazed and shocked that he could go to class, pass classes and be a senior. (this is the school where mike vick and his brother marcus also were able to pas a class or 2). but not to knock the school. plenty of people can be a psycho and still read a book and pass a test. college isnt rocket science. its just an extension of highschool, which is an extension of grade school.

im glad they decided to air this video. not to give him his 15 minutes of fame, but it helps to understand the how and the why's something like this can happen.

In closing, not that we need any more evidence Cho was clinically insane, but the fact he entrusted his package to the Postal Service rather than FedEx for delivery shows he had lost all capacity for rational thought :chuckle: so true!

Atlanta Dan
04-18-2007, 06:10 PM
NBC News President explaining how package was handled - media *****s knew package was suspicious but opened it up with gloves on and apparently went through contents before calling FBI. Prez "asked" for originals to be turned over to FBI (presumably after copies made?)

It was material evidence regarding a mass murder but NBC had to take care of preparing the lead story for the Nightly News before calling law enforcement. Amazing - can't wait for Fox News to claim Cho obviously was a NBC News viewer.

tony hipchest
04-18-2007, 06:13 PM
but with that being the case, exactly how should something like this have been handled before it got to the point of killing people? .

well, we cant lock somebody up for what we think they might do or what we could do, otherwise half our population could be locked up. and we can only treat these people as long as someones gonna foot the bill.

i dont know how many people kill themselves in america each year. as a society, i think we just take the chances that everyone crazy enough to take their own life isnt going to take every life in their path.

tony hipchest
04-18-2007, 06:16 PM
NBC News President explaining how package was handled - media *****s knew package was suspicious but opened it up with gloves on and apparently went through contents before calling FBI. Prez "asked" for originals to be turned over to FBI (presumably after copies made?)

It was material evidence regarding a mass murder but NBC had to take care of preparing the lead story for the Nightly News before calling law enforcement. Amazing - can't wait for Fox News to claim Cho obviously was a NBC News viewer.them latex gloves do wonders when handling letter bombs and anthrax. kinda sad to think nbc execs are probably happier than a pig in shit right now with what has to be considered the scoop of the year. :cheers:

HometownGal
04-18-2007, 06:28 PM
****WARNING - GRAPHIC CONTENT****

Here is the link to some of the pics and the video that this bastard sent to MSNBC. He is one evil looking demon.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

83-Steelers-43
04-18-2007, 06:30 PM
My question........

Does Virginia Tech and the state of Virginia ban or arrest people for arson? Just curious. Or do they just let a "little thing" such as that pass, send him to a shrink and give him some meds?

83-Steelers-43
04-18-2007, 06:33 PM
In those photographs, it's a shame that scumbag didn't go through with photo's #8 or #13.

tony hipchest
04-18-2007, 06:33 PM
Yes, I certainly understand that.

I guess more than anything it's just frustrating that so many signs seemed to be all around yet nothing could be done...... and for the exact reasons you've stated.frustrating indeed.

hardball host c. mathews cant pat nbc on the back enough for being in the center of the story. a bit less tact than b. williams who broke the story on evening news.

klick81
04-18-2007, 07:34 PM
Wow...he's a hero in his twisted mind :/

83-Steelers-43
04-18-2007, 07:48 PM
Wow...he's a hero in his twisted mind :/

Unfortunately, he's also a "hero" in the twisted mind of the next sick scumbag who decides to pull off a V-Tech or Columbine.

HometownGal
04-18-2007, 07:55 PM
Cho has a front row seat to view his imaginary "heroic" deed - burning in hell. I hope Satan turned up the heat. He took the easy way out - the freakin' coward.

Atlanta Dan
04-18-2007, 07:58 PM
Unfortunately, he's also a "hero" in the twisted mind of the next sick scumbag who decides to pull off a V-Tech or Columbine.

MSNBC interviewed former FBI profiler tonight who says you do not put these "manifestos" on the air since it just encourages the next psychotic to believe he will get his 15 minutes of fame when he goes for the gold to beat Cho's record. NBC doing a great job this evening of having it both ways, patting itself on the back for "agonizing" over how much of Cho's multimedia press release to run and the consequences of giving this killer massive pub while running with this 24/7.

I listened to Olberman on Dan Patrick's radio show yesterday; Olberman said then he would not devote more than 1/2 of last night's program to VT memorial services and Cho news because he was not going to hype a tragedy. Of course his entire program is running with this tonight; Cho is not the only one involved in this story suffering from narcissistic personality disorder.

Of course I am watching all this so I suppose that makes me part of the problem.

83-Steelers-43
04-18-2007, 09:28 PM
EXACTLY! That's why the media covering this pathetic guy needs to STOP!

Welcome to the world of news ratings and internet access. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen.

I was watching a news program tonight and they had the brother of a sister who was killed in the Columbine massacre. This young adult travels around the country speaking to different schools. He stated that the worst thing we can do as a society is put focus/glorification on the killer. We rarely hear about the kids/adults who are actually making something of themselves in this world. The media only tends to focus on the sack of shit who is unable to hack it in this world.

It's clearly obvious this scumbag wanted the notoriety and these news stations are giving it to him 24/7 while running a news bar underneath giving the names of those murdered. It's pathetic and sad.

GBMelBlount
04-18-2007, 09:28 PM
NBC News President explaining how package was handled - media *****s knew package was suspicious but opened it up with gloves on and apparently went through contents before calling FBI. Prez "asked" for originals to be turned over to FBI (presumably after copies made?)

It was material evidence regarding a mass murder but NBC had to take care of preparing the lead story for the Nightly News before calling law enforcement. Amazing - can't wait for Fox News to claim Cho obviously was a NBC News viewer.

Just curious, why would you say that abour Fox. Don't they have more of a mix of conservatives/liberals than MSNBC, ABC & NBC? Why else woluld they have abetter better viewership than the others combined?

83-Steelers-43
04-18-2007, 09:42 PM
Just curious, why would you say that abour Fox. Don't they have more of a mix of conservatives/liberals than MSNBC, ABC & NBC? Why else woluld they have abetter better viewership than the others combined?

FOX news does have more of a mix, but the complete far left wackos will never come to terms with that fact. MSNBC received the package yet FOX will get the blame. There's a shocker from a society where the far left basically owns the tv outlets and the media outlets in general.

For the record and IMO, I tend to stay in the middle for the most part, but FOX tends to have both sides argue they're respected points of view more than any other news station. But shhh, don't say that in front of the likes of Rosie, Frankin, Sheen, any of those smart Baldwin brothers (one is a coke addict who is now a born again, one is an alcoholic and coke head and the far left idiot beat the hell out of his wife, Kim Basinger), Penn and Moore.

tony hipchest
04-18-2007, 09:55 PM
appearantly rosie odonnell has been pimping anti gun legislation and her agenda in light of this tragedy. im ashamed as a democrat to have her as a voice. she sucks as a comedienne and is even worse as a voice for the people (its like having tom cruise as a presidential cabinet leader or religion czar).

as far as gun legislation, i probably side more with heston than her.

83-Steelers-43
04-18-2007, 10:01 PM
appearantly rosie odonnell has been pimping anti gun legislation and her agenda in light of this tragedy.

Yeah, for the record.....Rosie has her own bodyguards who pack heat. So I guess packing heat is fine if it means protecting Rosie's butt (to put it mildly). These are the same people who tell us "common folk" to drive fuel efficient cars while they are flying jets, driving SUV's and owning yachts.

One word..................HYPOCRISY.

tony hipchest
04-18-2007, 11:14 PM
i normally dont scrutinize media coverage (as far as right wing or left wing spin goes). but listening to a few of glen becks and bill orieleys jabs at the left make me notice some great discrepancies.

ones right to free speech is bashed while ones right to bear arms is upheld. this psyco needs to be locked up or put in a sanitarium, but the legislation to make this happen would be critisized as more big government and another excuse to raise taxes.

i wouldnt mind if the govt took a more active approach to screening these people, and trying to hospitalize or treat these malcontents, in the name of safety. but raising taxes to pay for it is out of the question, and the drug, gun, tobacco, and alcohol companies sure as hell arent gonna step up to foot the bill.

big government is frowned upon, yet it is big government that is being called upon to solve and prevent these problems.

glenn beck- opposes the right to this kids free speech being protected in english class but "vehemently supports the right to bare arms" :hunch: arent they both in our constitution?

Preacher
04-18-2007, 11:22 PM
i normally dont scrutinize media coverage (as far as right wing or left wing spin goes). but listening to a few of glen becks and bill orieleys jabs at the left make me notice some great discrepancies.

ones right to free speech is bashed while ones right to bear arms is upheld. this psyco needs to be locked up or put in a sanitarium, but the legislation to make this happen would be critisized as more big government and another excuse to raise taxes.

i wouldnt mind if the govt took a more active approach to screening these people, and trying to hospitalize or treat these malcontents, in the name of safety. but raising taxes to pay for it is out of the question, and the drug, gun, tobacco, and alcohol companies sure as hell arent gonna step up to foot the bill.

big government is frowned upon, yet it is big government that is being called upon to solve and prevent these problems.

glenn beck- opposes the right to this kids free speech being protected in english class but "vehemently supports the right to bare arms" :hunch: arent they both in our constitution?

Yep.

I do NOT want more gun control. What I do want however, is an INSTANT background check. National database of felons and others relegated to the list based on mental incompetence. Use this list to both disallow people to buy guns... and to disallow people to vote (yes, felons should be disallowed to vote... it was originally in the constitution, and it should stay).

glenn beck- opposes the right to this kids free speech being protected in english class but "vehemently supports the right to bare arms" :hunch: arent they both in our constitution?

This surprised me... He is normally pretty dang balanced.

Atlanta Dan
04-19-2007, 07:40 AM
Just curious, why would you say that abour Fox. Don't they have more of a mix of conservatives/liberals than MSNBC, ABC & NBC? Why else woluld they have abetter better viewership than the others combined?

I was not taking up for NBC against Fox (as a matter of fact my posts have questioned how NBC handled the package).

But there is a lot of sniping that goes back and forth between Fox and MSNBC, notably the Olberman/O'Reilly feud. I will be surprised if we do not see another spin-off from this story being how NBC has handled this. Given that Fox legitimately or otherwise claims to be an alternative to the mainstream media (we report/you decide - implying Fox plays it straight while other networks do not), my bet is Fox takes off after NBC on this in one way or another.

83-Steelers-43
04-19-2007, 07:49 AM
i normally dont scrutinize media coverage (as far as right wing or left wing spin goes). but listening to a few of glen becks and bill orieleys jabs at the left make me notice some great discrepancies.

By no means am I denying that there are conservative talk radio/tv shows. But from what I've heard/read/watched the left/far left tends to completely outnumber the right/far right talk shows and newspaper columnists in this day and age.

While I listen to O'Reilly, I don't always agree with the guy (about 60% of the time I agree), but I enjoy listening to Dennis Miller who jumps on his show from time to time. He was on last night. What I enjoy even more than O'Reilly is Hannity and Colmes. There we go, both a conservative and a democrat going head to head. You get to listen to both points of view on particular topics. IMO, I'm not seeing that on CNN or MSNBC. Instead I hear Keith Olbermann bash the President on a day to day basis. I'm by no means the biggest Bush fan in the world, but the bashing get's old. Keith, do me a favor.....stick to telling me the score of the Yankees vs Red Sox games.

When it comes to newspapers, where to begin? The list goes on and on.

I would just prefer it to be a little more "balanced", that's all.

Atlanta Dan
04-19-2007, 08:33 AM
By no means am I denying that there are conservative talk radio/tv shows. But from what I've heard/read/watched the left/far left tends to completely outnumber the right/far right talk shows and newspaper columnists in this day and age.

While I listen to O'Reilly, I don't always agree with the guy (about 60% of the time I agree), but I enjoy listening to Dennis Miller who jumps on his show from time to time. He was on last night. What I enjoy even more than O'Reilly is Hannity and Colmes. There we go, both a conservative and a democrat going head to head. You get to listen to both points of view on particular topics. IMO, I'm not seeing that on CNN or MSNBC. Instead I hear Keith Olbermann bash the President on a day to day basis. I'm by no means the biggest Bush fan in the world, but the bashing get's old. Keith, do me a favor.....stick to telling me the score of the Yankees vs Red Sox games.

When it comes to newspapers, where to begin? The list goes on and on.

I would just prefer it to be a little more "balanced", that's all.

When it comes to politically driven talk radio the right buries the left. Rush and Hannity are the two top rated political talkers with audiences estimated to be in excess of 10 million while Air America went bankrupt. Drudge Report is one of the go to Internet sites (when the last chairman of the Republican National Committee was appointed he flew to south Florida to meet with Drudge to coordinate procedures for leaking stories for posting on Drudge), the Wall Street Journal (to which I subscribe since you cannot read it for free online) and its very conservative editorial page have a national circulation that exceeds the New York Times, and Fox News is the highest rated cable news outlet.

The liberal/Democrat bias of The New York Times/Washington Post, CNN, and the traditional network news affiliates is counterbalanced by media outlets that skew conservative/GOP. Having a variety of media outlets with different political agendas is something I think is great and I tap into many of them, but any contention that powerful media outlets skew exclusively in one political direction is no longer supported by circulation/ratings data.

83-Steelers-43
04-19-2007, 08:36 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't ratings differerent than how many newspapers lean left compared to right? Aren't ratings different than how many liberal radio talk shows there are compared to conservative shows? Same with TV?

Ratings only show what the majority of people prefer to watch, it's doesn't reflect the lack of balance the media has in this country. I don't see the balance, but to each their own. Agree to disagree I guess.

Atlanta Dan
04-19-2007, 09:06 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't ratings differerent than how many newspapers lean left compared to right? Aren't ratings different than how many liberal radio talk shows there are compared to conservative shows? Same with TV?

Ratings only show what the majority of people prefer to watch, it's doesn't reflect the lack of balance the media has in this country. I don't see the balance, but to each their own. Agree to disagree I guess.

Ratings/circulation reflect how many people are receiving your message. To the extent the so-called "mainstream media" presumably refers to the largest streams those outlets currently do not skew in one direction politically.

Since you raised the point, if you have any data on the raw number of "liberal" as oppoosed to "conservative" talk shows/newspapers (regardless of ratings) then that might support your point.

But I guess we will agree to disagree on whether the "media" being dominated by the "liberals" is a fact or a political talking point.

83-Steelers-43
04-19-2007, 09:21 AM
All I have to do is turn on the TV. CNN, MSNBC, The Daily Show, Colbet Report, Bill Maher...etc. etc.

Or read the papers. NY Times, LA Times, San Francisco Chronicle, Washington Post, Boston Globe to name the top dogs. Those are just a few.

Or on radio..........much like with the papers, where to begin?

From my perspective, it's a tilt. Some people prefer that tilt because they tend to lead one way or the other. Some jumped a bridge when many came to their senses and Air-America went bankrupt. To each their own. I simply prefer more balance. I don't think that's too much to ask for, or is it? I'm not asking for it to be all conservative talk. I by no means would that anymore than I want what I feel is an already left leaning tilt. Balance.

tony hipchest
04-19-2007, 09:44 AM
i find it funny how few of these media members dont know there is a difference between a criminal database for background checks and a medical database. alot of people seem suprised that someone who is sick can buy a gun. as for basic news i would prefer hearing or reading it, and have no idea of the political affiliation of the one who is delivering it.

but that is old school. nowadays it is the news with commentary, opinion, and analysis that sells. i can deal with that. i just kinda tune out that which i may not agree with. kinda like theismann on a football broadcast.

83-Steelers-43
04-19-2007, 09:47 AM
i find it funny how few of these media members dont know there is a difference between a criminal database for background checks and a medical database. alot of people seem suprised that someone who is sick can buy a gun.

Gun store owners should be permitted to see a persons mental health records before they sell a gun. It's takes me seven days to get my dry cleaning back, but I can buy a gun in ten minutes. Am I the only one that finds that a little odd?

tony hipchest
04-19-2007, 09:58 AM
Gun store owners should be permitted to see a persons mental health records before they sell a gun. It's takes me seven days to get my dry cleaning back, but I can buy a gun in ten minutes. Am I the only one that finds that a little odd?its extremely odd. i have a feeling that after columbine there was alot of left wing legislation that was brought up to increase the waiting time and access to records, for gun purchase. im sure there were thoughts to screen this kids, test them, evaluate them, try to treat them etc before something like this were to ever happen again.

more big government, more invasion of privacy, more taxes etc. im sure that went over real well with the gun lobbyists and far right. thats why i find that moron's comment trying to blame the left and supporting ones "right to free speech", completely idiotic, when in the next breath he said he vehemently supports "the right to bear arms".

the blame game should be shifting into full tilt after the funerals and ceremonies. i cant wait to hear all the other creative ways the left will be blamed for this. i for one wont get into blaming one side of the aisle to heavilly.

all i know is that if nobody was gonna pay to treat this wacko, he was going to go untreated. even if somebody was going to pay to treat this monster, the chance of it still happening was there.

83-Steelers-43
04-19-2007, 10:00 AM
I'm not trying to take guns away from anybody, except for the wack job who's on meds and was recently treated in a mental health facility. Yeah, probably not a good idea for those type of people to be packing heat.

Atlanta Dan
04-19-2007, 11:26 AM
All I have to do is turn on the TV. CNN, MSNBC, The Daily Show, Colbet Report, Bill Maher...etc. etc.

Or read the papers. NY Times, LA Times, San Francisco Chronicle, Washington Post, Boston Globe to name the top dogs. Those are just a few.

Or on radio..........much like with the papers, where to begin?

From my perspective, it's a tilt. Some people prefer that tilt because they tend to lead one way or the other. Some jumped a bridge when many came to their senses and Air-America went bankrupt. To each their own. I simply prefer more balance. I don't think that's too much to ask for, or is it? I'm not asking for it to be all conservative talk. I by no means would that anymore than I want what I feel is an already left leaning tilt. Balance.

Would you agree Drudge Report, Fox News (the most popular cable news station) as well as Rush and Hannity (the most popular talk radio hosts) tilt Republican? If so, that indicates the GOP has no small amount of clout on TV, radio, and the Internet which are growing sources of news and opinion for people - if not, I guess we will also disagree on exactly what constititutes "tilt" and"balance."

Moreover, since by any statistically valid public opinion sample (not to mention the last election) the current administration is on the short end of the public approval stick, I suppose another issue is how a particular political view can be regarded as being in the middle and reflecting the view of the majority rather than an elite, out of touch commentariat.

Good arguments obviously can be made both ways on this issue.

floodcitygirl
04-19-2007, 12:31 PM
I heard what I thought was an interesting commentary on this tragedy. It is not a politically correct opinion. My purpose in bringing it here isn't to hurt or cast stones but I hadn't thought about this at all and it was thought provoking for me.

Basically, this gentleman, who I would guess to be in his 60's commented that he empathizes greatly with the families of the victims and in no way puts blame for this incident on anyone but Cho himself. His belief, however. is that had a gunman entered his high school classroom, let alone college, 20, 30 or 40 years ago, the male students would have handled the situation much differently. He said that boys are raised, as a whole in our society so much differently today. They have been so emasculated that they no longer react as would be instinctive in response to danger (as a defender, protector, warrior). His feeling is that years ago, the men would have picked up their desks and attacked as a group, knowing that he may be able to take out a couple of them but would never have been able to take all of the lives that he did, freewill.

This made me think about the men (and women) on that flight on 9/11 that went down in PA because those people knew that they couldn't allow those terrorists to do with that plane what they intended. They sacrificed themselves for the greater good. I wonder about the ages of the people on that flight and wonder how, if in any way, they were raised in a different way from our children today.

Any thoughts? (I hope this was put in the correct thread. If not please feel free to move it.)

Preacher
04-19-2007, 12:46 PM
I heard what I thought was an interesting commentary on this tragedy. It is not a politically correct opinion. My purpose in bringing it here isn't to hurt or cast stones but I hadn't thought about this at all and it was thought provoking for me.

Basically, this gentleman, who I would guess to be in his 60's commented that he empathizes greatly with the families of the victims and in no way puts blame for this incident on anyone but Cho himself. His belief, however. is that had a gunman entered his high school classroom, let alone college, 20, 30 or 40 years ago, the male students would have handled the situation much differently. He said that boys are raised, as a whole in our society so much differently today. They have been so emasculated that they no longer react as would be instinctive in response to danger (as a defender, protector, warrior). His feeling is that years ago, the men would have picked up their desks and attacked as a group, knowing that he may be able to take out a couple of them but would never have been able to take all of the lives that he did, freewill.

This made me think about the men (and women) on that flight on 9/11 that went down in PA because those people knew that they couldn't allow those terrorists to do with that plane what they intended. They sacrificed themselves for the greater good. I wonder about the ages of the people on that flight and wonder how, if in any way, they were raised in a different way from our children today.

Any thoughts? (I hope this was put in the correct thread. If not please feel free to move it.)

Actually, I made that same point to my wife the other day. When we are pushing sports with no winners or losers, hence, no competition, when we are pushing making everyone feel OK... rather then excelling. We emasculate not just our boys, but our society.

I agree. I blame no one but Cho himself. I may even find grace for him in his depressive state. However, I wonder why more people didn't act like the professor. Interesting..

a Jewish professor.. went through the holocaust. Saw pain, suffering, etc... and in his old age... he amongst them all saved lives. He amongst all those youth in thier strength of teen and twenties... and he alone put his body in front of the gunman.

GBMelBlount
04-19-2007, 09:11 PM
I heard what I thought was an interesting commentary on this tragedy. It is not a politically correct opinion. My purpose in bringing it here isn't to hurt or cast stones but I hadn't thought about this at all and it was thought provoking for me.

Basically, this gentleman, who I would guess to be in his 60's commented that he empathizes greatly with the families of the victims and in no way puts blame for this incident on anyone but Cho himself. His belief, however. is that had a gunman entered his high school classroom, let alone college, 20, 30 or 40 years ago, the male students would have handled the situation much differently. He said that boys are raised, as a whole in our society so much differently today. They have been so emasculated that they no longer react as would be instinctive in response to danger (as a defender, protector, warrior). His feeling is that years ago, the men would have picked up their desks and attacked as a group, knowing that he may be able to take out a couple of them but would never have been able to take all of the lives that he did, freewill.

This made me think about the men (and women) on that flight on 9/11 that went down in PA because those people knew that they couldn't allow those terrorists to do with that plane what they intended. They sacrificed themselves for the greater good. I wonder about the ages of the people on that flight and wonder how, if in any way, they were raised in a different way from our children today.

Any thoughts? (I hope this was put in the correct thread. If not please feel free to move it.)

Regardless FCG, point well taken. Agreed.

P.S. 83-43, AD both good points, we'll see how this unravels. Bottom line..Sad.