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tony hipchest
04-29-2007, 02:01 AM
...that no matter how bad it appears our draft sucked that it is a 15-1 team and then a SB champion team that we are working with here.

our 8-8 season, and missing the playoffs, can easilly be attributed to a head coach who folded his arms on the sidelines and frequently looked at the Jumbotron. a lack of emotion and fire (or what non steelerfans simply call flying saliva and a jutting jaw) is the culprit , not the players we currently have on the roster.

while it is not yet known how far Tomlin can hock a loogie, the reason for our demise has been let go (along with his beer drinking bandits) and the new regime is expected to return us to prominence.

let us not expect a rookie head coach, who is in the bottom third of coaches salaries, to simply work miracles, but trust the rooneys and colbert to know what they are doing... like we always have.

MasterOfPuppets
04-29-2007, 02:10 AM
...that no matter how bad it appears our draft sucked that it is a 15-1 team and then a SB champion team that we are working with here.

our 8-8 season, and missing the playoffs, can easilly be attributed to a head coach who folded his arms on the sidelines and frequently looked at the Jumbotron. a lack of emotion and fire (or what non steelerfans simply call flying saliva and a jutting jaw) is the culprit , not the players we currently have on the roster.

while it is not yet known how far Tomlin can hock a loogie, the reason for our demise has been let go (along with his beer drinking bandits) and the new regime is expected to return us to prominence.

let us not expect a rookie head coach, who is in the bottom third of coaches salaries, to simply work miracles, but trust the rooneys and colbert to know what they are doing... like we always have.
it still doesn't change the fact that we've lost players and will be loosing more players in the next year, and i don't see them working on plan B.

tony hipchest
04-29-2007, 02:20 AM
it still doesn't change the fact that we've lost players and will be loosing more players in the next year, and i don't see them working on plan B.that wouldnt be the case if cowher woulda spit more and folded his arms less, last year.

blame cowher. its the convinient option. cowher was never known for working on "plan B".

or we could blame colbert or art II :jawdrop:

OX1947
04-29-2007, 03:36 AM
I guess it was the guy folding his arms all year who was throwing 23 INTs and fumbling on special teams and at the worst times in the ball game. Its fans like you that probably added to Cowher retiring. The guy was one of the best winners in football despite free agent loses after free agent loses and a tight budget, yet, because he had players riding motorcycles and crashing in the off season, Cowher is to blame for going 8-8.

LambertIsGod58
04-29-2007, 08:41 AM
I guess it was the guy folding his arms all year who was throwing 23 INTs and fumbling on special teams and at the worst times in the ball game. Its fans like you that probably added to Cowher retiring. The guy was one of the best winners in football despite free agent loses after free agent loses and a tight budget, yet, because he had players riding motorcycles and crashing in the off season, Cowher is to blame for going 8-8.


I have to agree...I am very upset with this year's draft. Leon Hall was still there at 15. We go LB...what a big surprise! We won't improve from 8-8, everyone will see.

ExtonSteelFan
04-29-2007, 09:55 AM
How can you predict how well we do this season? Hell, I bet 95% of you guys that are claiming another 8-8 season (or worse) next year were also the one's claiming a repeat SB in '06! Look how that one turned out!

Besides that fact, I'm not so sure we need another CB anyway. So what if leon hall was still on the board at 15, maybe Tomlin and the rest of the coaching staff have faith in the fact that Ike and McFadden are going to come around this year. Lets also not count out the nice extension Ike got last year as well. The guy has one bad year and everyone gets all up in arms about it. Furthermore, most every single mock draft I've seen had the Steelers picking a LB in the first round, besides SI saying it would be Revis. After our first two picks, I don't recall one single analyst saying it was a bad move. The only one that could be questionable is spaeth but even that is just questionable. I recall alot of people complaining about the fact that Heath wasn't involved in the game plans much last year. Maybe with the addition of Spaeth this will open up Heath as a more of a receiver and less of a blocker!

Atlanta Dan
04-29-2007, 10:09 AM
A team should have a consistent draft day plan - either this draft is about filling needs or drafting the best player on the board.

The first 2 picks make sense if the Steelers believe their biggest need is OLB and this draft is about drafting for needs and not depth (which was the consensus as to what needed to be done this year)

Having defended the first 2 picks, the 3rd pick makes no sense as drafting for need - with Heath Miller the Steelers are set at TE for several years and have more pressing concerns at RB and OL. Of course it does not make sense as drafting the best player on the board either - Spaeth apparently is generally regarded as a second day pick. Just as Tomlin fell in love with Timmons (and could not keep his mouth shut about Revis at the press conference earlier this week, which probably hurt the ability to trade down) so it appears Tomlin is the likely suspect for wanting a Minnesota Gophers player.

It now is Tomlin's team - if a number of upcoming FAs are not signed after this draft he will get to deal with the consequences of these picks. After yesterday I have the sinking feeling Tomlin is like a kid out of college who gets a job together with a credit card and starts spending with no experience as to what has value or anyone who will rein him in.

ExtonSteelFan
04-29-2007, 10:27 AM
A team should have a consistent draft day plan - either this draft is about filling needs or drafting the best player on the board.

The first 2 picks make sense if the Steelers believe their biggest need is OLB and this draft is about drafting for needs and not depth (which was the consensus as to what needed to be done this year)

Having defended the first 2 picks, the 3rd pick makes no sense as drafting for need - with Heath Miller the Steelers are set at TE for several years and have more pressing concerns at RB and OL. Of course it does not make sense as drafting the best player on the board either - Spaeth apparently is generally regarded as a second day pick. Just as Tomlin fell in love with Timmons (and could not keep his mouth shut about Revis at the press conference earlier this week, which probably hurt the ability to trade down) so it appears Tomlin is the likely suspect for wanting a Minnesota Gophers player.

It now is Tomlin's team - if a number of upcoming FAs are not signed after this draft he will get to deal with the consequences of these picks. After yesterday I have the sinking feeling Tomlin is like a kid out of college who gets a job together with a credit card and starts spending with no experience as to what has value or anyone who will rein him in.

Well, the only problem with that is Tomlin isn't the only one making decisions. Colbert and the Rooney's have just as much a hand in this draft as he does. I don't think the rest of the organization would blindly go along with Tomlin if they thought he was making bad decisions. Only time will tell though

Atlanta Dan
04-29-2007, 10:52 AM
Well, the only problem with that is Tomlin isn't the only one making decisions. Colbert and the Rooney's have just as much a hand in this draft as he does. I don't think the rest of the organization would blindly go along with Tomlin if they thought he was making bad decisions. Only time will tell though

After the Donohoe/Cowher power struggle of the late 1990s, Colbert was brought in to defer to Cowher. To expect Colbert to suddenly become the take charge guy who will run personnel decisions is not in keeping with how he has acted previously. Add to that the Rooneys are pretty much doing anything to keep Tomlin comfortable during his first year (e.g. - Porter being booted to avoid the distraction of a holdout or Porter complaining about his contract if he stayed this year) and I think it is reasonable to say what Tomlin wants, Tomlin gets. I am not saying it may not be a good pick, but Tomlin has been busy excusing Timmons' physical shortcomings (height/weight/speed) for a pick that was not rated as highly by others as Tomlin rated him.

This is Tomlin's draft - he is 34 years old, has never been captain of the ship before, and has no rival power such as Cowher did when he came in to work with Donohoe in 1992 to provide a reality check.

As you say, time will tell, but there were some reaches yesterday.

fansince'76
04-29-2007, 11:37 AM
I guess it was the guy folding his arms all year who was throwing 23 INTs and fumbling on special teams and at the worst times in the ball game. Its fans like you that probably added to Cowher retiring. The guy was one of the best winners in football despite free agent loses after free agent loses and a tight budget, yet, because he had players riding motorcycles and crashing in the off season, Cowher is to blame for going 8-8.

No, but it is Cowher's fault for starting said QB when he had absolutely no business being on the field in the first place (Oakland game, anybody?) and then stubbornly refusing to pull him, even after throwing 2 pick sixes.

polamalufan43
04-29-2007, 11:41 AM
I don't consider Cowher directly to have been a problem, but the fact that others made assumptions, that yes ended up being true, but still at the time were just that, assumptions.

AS for Tomlin, seeing this is his first draft I'd say he did ok so far, we'll see in the future if the picks work out.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

GBMelBlount
04-29-2007, 11:55 AM
Agree with all comments about both Ben & Cowher being a big part of the problem last year. After first three picks I actually felt a little depressed. I hope I am proven wrong. Am not watching draft today and will check in late tonight and hope we found one or two late round steals to pick me up.

MACH1
04-29-2007, 12:22 PM
No, but it is Cowher's fault for starting said QB when he had absolutely no business being on the field in the first place (Oakland game, anybody?) and then stubbornly refusing to pull him, even after throwing 2 pick sixes.

And all that time he spent in a daze day-dreaming about how to decorate his new house.

The picks so far aren't great, especially with a TE at #3. This years picks may not effect the team to a great degree this year but may later come back to bite us in the ass after the players we lose next year.

SteelerMurf
04-29-2007, 12:24 PM
it still doesn't change the fact that we've lost players and will be loosing more players in the next year, and i don't see them working on plan B.

How many starters did you expect to draft in 2007?

tony hipchest
04-29-2007, 01:46 PM
This is Pre 4th Round Tony, for some Post 4th Round Tony check out the Draft Day thread. Bipolar disorder....:flap:
i think most people cant detect a post laced with sarcasm w/o the aid of emoticons :wink02:

lol

Black@Gold Forever32
04-29-2007, 02:08 PM
I don't think the draft is as bad as some of you think it is. I like the defensive players selected and I think all three will fit into a hybrid type defense we might see this year. I'm glad the Steelers drafted a punter. Hey Gardocki had to go. True you can find punters without drafting one. But this guy was regarded as a top punter. I'm ok with the TE even though it was a major reach pick. I see the Steelers keeping three TEs now. Plus maybe this will free up Miller to be more envolved in the passing game instead of being used a blocker at times. The guard from Rutgers just adds depth to the Oline. Hell I'm willing to trust the coaches and give them a chance.

moedap
04-29-2007, 02:27 PM
I dont understand the TE pick in round 3. Especially since Arians has said he will be using the 3 and 4 WR sets more than the Steelers have in the past. I would have taken a WR as my "project" pick. The only way I can see this working is if they plan on using the 2 WR, 2TE, 1 RB set and needed an option other than Tuman.

NV STEELERS 723
04-29-2007, 03:48 PM
...that no matter how bad it appears our draft sucked that it is a 15-1 team and then a SB champion team that we are working with here.

our 8-8 season, and missing the playoffs, can easilly be attributed to a head coach who folded his arms on the sidelines and frequently looked at the Jumbotron. a lack of emotion and fire (or what non steelerfans simply call flying saliva and a jutting jaw) is the culprit , not the players we currently have on the roster.

while it is not yet known how far Tomlin can hock a loogie, the reason for our demise has been let go (along with his beer drinking bandits) and the new regime is expected to return us to prominence.

let us not expect a rookie head coach, who is in the bottom third of coaches salaries, to simply work miracles, but trust the rooneys and colbert to know what they are doing... like we always have.

It is way too early to say this draft sucked

tony hipchest
04-29-2007, 03:52 PM
It is way too early to say this draft suckedwhich is why this thread perfectly addresses those who think it did.

(the te pick in the 3rd definitely sucked. so did not trading down in the 1st and still grabbing timmons.)

cbalke
04-29-2007, 04:14 PM
No, but it is Cowher's fault for starting said QB when he had absolutely no business being on the field in the first place (Oakland game, anybody?) and then stubbornly refusing to pull him, even after throwing 2 pick sixes.

ABSOLUTELY correct. that was a TERRIBLE coaching decision. ben shouldn't have played til at least week 4. long term, season-wise, that would have been much better off for us.

LarryNJ
04-29-2007, 04:27 PM
No, but it is Cowher's fault for starting said QB when he had absolutely no business being on the field in the first place.

I thought we forgave him for sticking with Kordell for so long! :)

HometownGal
04-29-2007, 06:17 PM
i think most people cant detect a post laced with sarcasm w/o the aid of emoticons :wink02:

lol

I picked up on it right away, Tony - that is why I didn't bother to post a reply. :wink02: :sofunny: The What Have You Done For Me Lately, Beat A Dead Horse Cowher haters came out of the closet - I know who you are now. :flap: :wink02: :mg:

BUCKEYE4EVER
04-29-2007, 06:40 PM
I have to agree...I am very upset with this year's draft. Leon Hall was still there at 15. We go LB...what a big surprise! We won't improve from 8-8, everyone will see.
I'm sorry I just don't see what the interest in these overrated U of M players . How about next year they go after Morgan Trent another DB that would get beat like a red headed step child. {Woodley is a exception to the post .}

Preacher
04-29-2007, 06:44 PM
I was wondering about the TE too... yeah.. I thought FB conversion maybe.... but as some said in another thread...too slow.

However, without Bettis... we really don't have that back to power the ball into the endzone from two, three..four yards out. Even 5 or 10. Willies speed is somewhat negated there because there is less field to cover.

Maybe we are moving to many more two TE sets in close yardage situation... looking to pass more... or create confusion with draw plays to give Willie some more room. If Tomlin thinks that we have the fundamentals to win this year, then he drafted to fill need at the first and second... drafted to change scheming on short yardage in the third and seventh, (see above) drafted to help ST in the 4th and the rest was to fill holes.

I can somewhat understand the idea... but I just wonder what and why... especially why move up in the draft FOR A PUNTER??

rowedf
04-29-2007, 07:45 PM
I guess it was the guy folding his arms all year who was throwing 23 INTs and fumbling on special teams and at the worst times in the ball game. Its fans like you that probably added to Cowher retiring. The guy was one of the best winners in football despite free agent loses after free agent loses and a tight budget, yet, because he had players riding motorcycles and crashing in the off season, Cowher is to blame for going 8-8.

If you wanna go that route, then it WAS his fault that he let his qb start that soon after such a tumultious offseason AND let him stay in games where he couldnt hit a blind side of the barn after throwing 3-4 pics. He also let the guy with probably the worst hands our team, return punts, but that's not Cowher's fault becuase he's had a good track record for 14 years right?

Dude, he seemed to care less this season. I've been to a ton of games and always watch the bench ... he isolated himself so far from the team on the sidelines this year it was painstakingly obvious.

rowedf
04-29-2007, 07:49 PM
I was wondering about the TE too... yeah.. I thought FB conversion maybe.... but as some said in another thread...too slow.


A 6'6 Fullback :dang:

Black@Gold Forever32
04-29-2007, 07:51 PM
Whats the big deal of trading up to draft a punter? Ok I'm usually not one for drafting punters also since you can find one without drafting one. But Daniel Sepulveda has a ton of potential and really could be our punter for the next 10-15 years. So really there shouldn't be a need for a punter for a long time.

Plus Gardocki had to go and yes Mike Barr was brought back into the fold. But there is a reason he has been cut the last 2 years. I think Sepulveda will improve our field position and help our defense out. Plus he seems to be really good in pinning the ball inside the 20.

rowedf
04-29-2007, 07:52 PM
How many starters did you expect to draft in 2007?

You rarely enter the draft expecting your picks to be starters, unless you have a totally empty hole that needs filled. What they did need to do is add depth, and I think they did a decent job at that. I'm not totally dissapointed in the draft, just not that thrilled. I hope the top two can make an impact on special teams this year and possible challenge Harrison for his starting job. The punter is probably the only one they are expecting to start ... unless, whats his name Barr? can beat him out.

Black@Gold Forever32
04-29-2007, 07:57 PM
You rarely enter the draft expecting your picks to be starters, unless you have a totally empty hole that needs filled. What they did need to do is add depth, and I think they did a decent job at that. I'm not totally dissapointed in the draft, just not that thrilled. I hope the top two can make an impact on special teams this year and possible challenge Harrison for his starting job. The punter is probably the only one they are expecting to start ... unless, whats his name Barr? can beat him out.

Challenge Harrison? I hope they challenge Clark Haggans. I think James Harrison has a breakout year.:tt02:

We will see Timmons and Woodley on the field this year. I read Tomlin is scrapping the idea of the starting OLBs playing the whole game and plans on using Timmons/Woodley to give them rest from time to time. So it should be fun watching the youth on this defense this year.

NV STEELERS 723
04-29-2007, 09:52 PM
which is why this thread perfectly addresses those who think it did.

(the te pick in the 3rd definitely sucked. so did not trading down in the 1st and still grabbing timmons.)

You and Bob Smizik should have lunch more often.

Livinginthe past
04-29-2007, 10:34 PM
I was wondering about the TE too... yeah.. I thought FB conversion maybe.... but as some said in another thread...too slow.

However, without Bettis... we really don't have that back to power the ball into the endzone from two, three..four yards out. Even 5 or 10. Willies speed is somewhat negated there because there is less field to cover.

Maybe we are moving to many more two TE sets in close yardage situation... looking to pass more... or create confusion with draw plays to give Willie some more room. If Tomlin thinks that we have the fundamentals to win this year, then he drafted to fill need at the first and second... drafted to change scheming on short yardage in the third and seventh, (see above) drafted to help ST in the 4th and the rest was to fill holes.

I can somewhat understand the idea... but I just wonder what and why... especially why move up in the draft FOR A PUNTER??

If Tomlin really was of the opinion that the Steelers are so strong that they don't have many needs then he should have traded away draft picks for next years draft.

The TE pick is right up there with the Ted Ginn pick as an obvious mistake - surely you dont pick a slow blocking-type TE to help you in the redzone?

As for the trade up for a punter...maybe Tomlin thought there was going to be a run on them once Podlesh went with the 2nd pick of the 2nd day? :toofunny:

tony hipchest
04-29-2007, 10:48 PM
If Tomlin really was of the opinion that the Steelers are so strong that they don't have many needs then he should have traded away draft picks for next years draft.

The TE pick is right up there with the Ted Ginn pick as an obvious mistake - surely you dont pick a slow blocking-type TE to help you in the redzone?

As for the trade up for a punter...maybe Tomlin thought there was going to be a run on them once Podlesh went with the 2nd pick of the 2nd day? :toofunny:even the patriots took a no need te on the 1st day last year. didnt they spend a high round pick on a kicker and recently lose an embarrassing haggle over a punter too? :toofunny:

sepulveda was projected as a possible 1st day pick and one of the few players the steelers definitely had in their cross hairs. if they didnt trade a throw away 6th round pick, they woulda possibly missed out on him. its the only bold move they made in the draft. i wish they would do it more.

unless it was jacoby jones, e. weddle, or m. bush (if any were still on the board) i wouldve thought any 3rd round pick was a waste.

Livinginthe past
04-29-2007, 11:01 PM
even the patriots took a no need te on the 1st day last year. didnt they spend a high round pick on a kicker and recently lose an embarrassing haggle over a punter too? :toofunny:

sepulveda was projected as a possible 1st day pick and one of the few players the steelers definitely had in their cross hairs. if they didnt trade a throw away 6th round pick, they woulda possibly missed out on him. its the only bold move they made in the draft. i wish they would do it more.

unless it was jacoby jones, e. weddle, or m. bush (if any were still on the board) i wouldve thought any 3rd round pick was a waste.

I didn't have any real problem with the punter pick if thats what they really wanted and agree that throwing in a 6th rounder was a wise move once they made their minds up to go in that direction.

As far as the Patriots comparisons go, I rate kickers alot higher than punters, but thats just me.

The real criticism was aimed at the TE pick, because I felt the Steelers had genuine needs in other areas (OL specifically) - Thomas (the Patriots pick last year) will be an excellent player - he was Vince Youngs main man in college) and i'll confess to not having heard anything about Spaeth.