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oldschool
05-18-2007, 03:05 PM
Alan, From a long time Steelers fan, we love ya.

We have watched and cheered for you since you first days as a Steeler. You are one of the best guards in the NFL, and have continued to play at a pro Bowl level for years.

In 2002 the Steelers made you the highest paid guard in the NFL, and repotedly there were only 4 line men in the league that were paid more than you that year. In 2003 there were 48 line men that made more than you, in 2004 there were 30, in 2005 there were 7 guards that were more highly paid. You played your heart out each and every one of thoes years all under the contract that made you the highest paid guard in the NFL.

Guess what, you still have one more year under that contract, SO SHUT UP AND PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!:helmet:

HometownGal
05-18-2007, 03:09 PM
Preach on brother! :jammin:

Here's another tip for ya Alan - - - big boys don't cry.

Cape Cod Steel Head
05-18-2007, 03:15 PM
Very well said!:cheers:

TackleMeBen
05-18-2007, 03:39 PM
Preach on brother! :jammin:

Here's another tip for ya Alan - - - big boys don't cry.

i am waiting for tony to come in and post a pic of a big boy crying now..lol

Stillers43
05-18-2007, 04:13 PM
Makes sense! Play your guts out this year and you will get rewarded, whether it be by the Steelers or not. Whine and cry and keep losing more money! No one wants to pay a cry baby!

Atlanta Dan
05-18-2007, 04:48 PM
Yeah Alan

Please listen to us tell you what is in your best personal and financial interests - we know far better than you how the negotiations have proceeded, what the going market rate is for top shelf guards entering the latter stages of their career, and how it feels to be paid in our chosen occupations millions less than comparable specialists.

I know we would all listen to you if you told us how to negotiate raises with our bosses.

rich4eagle
05-18-2007, 04:57 PM
Concur Alan has a contract, his job is the play hard and do his best so that the Steelers pay him as much as they feel he is worth.........this whining is not good. I would not be surprised if he gets traded before the season starts

HometownGal
05-18-2007, 05:04 PM
Yeah Alan

Please listen to us tell you what is in your best personal and financial interests - we know far better than you how the negotiations have proceeded, what the going market rate is for top shelf guards entering the latter stages of their career, and how it feels to be paid in our chosen occupations millions less than comparable specialists.

I know we would all listen to you if you told us how to negotiate raises with our bosses.

Millions? Did you say MILLIONS, Dan? Must be nice to play 20 odd games a year and get paid in one year what most of us can't even dream of ringing up in a lifetime, yet still whine and blubber about it. I know we'd all make huge hits with our employers if we went public with our gripes instead of doing what most adult professionals do - shut their yaps and attempt to work it out with the employer privately. I'm sorry - I have absolutely no sympathy for Faneca in this situation. Zip, zilch, nada.

83-Steelers-43
05-18-2007, 06:09 PM
Fully edited...lol. My apologies Fansince76.

SteelerFanInCA
05-18-2007, 06:13 PM
Hopefully when it comes times to playing he shuts the hell up and gives us at least one more good year of play.

Atlanta Dan
05-18-2007, 06:21 PM
Millions? Did you say MILLIONS, Dan? Must be nice to play 20 odd games a year and get paid in one year what most of us can't even dream of ringing up in a lifetime, yet still whine and blubber about it. I know we'd all make huge hits with our employers if we went public with our gripes instead of doing what most adult professionals do - shut their yaps and attempt to work it out with the employer privately. I'm sorry - I have absolutely no sympathy for Faneca in this situation. Zip, zilch, nada.

HTG - you may not have sympathy, but here are the numbers on the Browns signing Steinbach, whom I regard as someone to whom Faneca is comparing himself:

Browns signed Steinbach to a 7-year deal worth $49.5 million and with $17 million in guarantees. Steinbach's agent, Jack Bechta, was believed to be seeking a deal close to the one signed by Minnesota guard Steve Hutchinson last season, and Steinbach's pact is actually a slight cut above that one, which was a 7-year pact for $49 million and with $16 million in guarantees.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-steinbach030207&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

My cursory arithmetic skills work that out to be millions less than what Faneca currently is making and what the Steelers allegedly are offering.

I agree it is like listening to investment bankers whine about being underpaid compared to hedge fund operators, or, to use an analogy in a field with which you are particularly familiar, like hearing a Reed Smith partner bi***ing about his partnership draw compared to the draw of a Skadden Arps partner or a plaintiffs' products liability attorney. They all make obscene amounts of $$$, but the Reed Smith attorney is comparatively underpaid.

When it comes to income, individuals compare themselves to their peers and attempt to maximize their self-interest by getting the market rate for their services. We all would like to make what Faneca is making, but my bet is posters on this board only care about Faneca insofar as his situation impacts the Steelers - I know that is my position.

Any logical conclusion that Faneca is acting "unreasonably" presumably requires a frame of reference for what it feels like to be making millions but at the same time have an opportunity to make significantly more. I do not sympathize with Faneca but do not believe we have any grounds beyond our interest in the Steelers as a team in saying his conduct is not appropriate when his own self-interest is the measuring stick.

What Faneca could get away with if he was a clerk negotiating a raise at Giant Eagle and what Faneca can get away with as a professional athlete seeking a new contract are completely different situations - such are the realities of the free market. Some of the posts against Faneca sound depressingly like liberals who constantly complain about "the rich" making too much money.

fansince'76
05-18-2007, 06:22 PM
Hopefully when it comes times to playing he shuts the hell up and gives us at least one more good year of play.

I'm with you on that, SteelerFanInCA, but unfortunately, I think he's gonna be a problem all year. A piss poor attitude tends to be contagious.

fansince'76
05-18-2007, 06:29 PM
Any logical conclusion that Faneca is acting "unreasonably" presumably requires a frame of reference for what it feels like to be making millions but at the same time have an opportunity to make significantly more. I do not sympathize with Faneca but do not believe we have any grounds beyond our interest in the Steelers as a team in saying his conduct is not appropriate when his own self-interest is the measuring stick.

Yes, but when other athletes, Faneca's peers, around the league are saying his conduct last Friday could presumably hurt his worth down the road, does this not equate to the conduct being unreasonable?

tony hipchest
05-18-2007, 06:29 PM
Dear Alan,

Will you please sign this 8x10 glossy photo of you so i can have it framed and hang it in my office?

Thanks!



http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/turn2_1.jpg

:toofunny: (i still think faneca is top 2 in the game and will continue to be, but this was simply too good to pass up)

Atlanta Dan
05-18-2007, 06:45 PM
Yes, but when other athletes, Faneca's peers, around the league are saying his conduct last Friday could presumably hurt his worth down the road, does this not equate to the conduct being unreasonable?

I read the Trib-Review article today where a number of agents (who may be trying to recruit the same clients Faneca's agent is seeking to represent) for other Steelers (who may not have Faneca's leverage) questioned Faneca's conduct, but which players have called him out? I did not hear the agents for Troy or Ben saying Faneca should make nice.

Since I think he is trying to force a trade, Exhibit A for why Faneca's conduct makes sense to me is how the Joey Porter situation played out. Porter raised hell and got his FA deal sooner rather than later.

tony hipchest
05-18-2007, 06:52 PM
I read the Trib-Review article today where a number of agents (who may be trying to recruit the same clients Faneca's agent is seeking to represent) for other Steelers (who may not have Faneca's leverage) questioned Faneca's conduct, but which players have called him out? I did not hear the agents for Troy or Ben saying Faneca should make nice.

Since I think he is trying to force a trade, Exhibit A for why Faneca's conduct makes sense to me is how the Joey Porter situation played out. Porter raised hell and got his FA deal sooner rather than later.unfortunately the faneca situation is gonna become a common business practice across the nfl as a whole. and fanecas agent is right. the steelers know he will show up and play and not do what d. branch did last year.

http://nfl.com/news/story/10186057

(May 17, 2007) -- Darwin Walker gets traded to Buffalo from the Eagles and he's not showing up to the team's facility until he gets a new deal.

Greg Ellis of the Cowboys says he's a good guy, but needs to talk about his contract.

Alex Brown of the Bears wants to see what the market is for him, even though he's under contract.

Alan Faneca says this is his last season in Pittsburgh because the Steelers don't want to pay him the "new' market value for guards, even though Faneca might be the best guard in football.

General managers knew the big deals signed this past winter were going to be problematic this spring, and they have caused problems. Well, here comes the next complicating factor ... draft-pick contracts. There are only a few rookie deals in the books, but they might reflect the pressures that make veterans even more frustrated.

Last year, rookie guaranteed money was a problem for many vets who couldn't understand why an unproven player gets so much money. Below is the average guaranteed money by round last year.

And if the early deals so far suggest there is a chance for an 8 percent increase in 2007, then there will be more contract issues this spring. Keep in mind, the money includes option bonuses that are exercised.


Round 2006 guaranteed dollars 2007 projected guarantee
1 $10.38 million $11.30 million
2 $1.68 million $1.80 million
3 $643,000 $685,000
4 $399,000 $420,000
5 $151,000 $160,000
6 $83,000 $90,000
7 $41,000 $44,000



It's easy to see why solid veterans, who want their piece of the pie and want out of the contracts, aren't able to come to grips with the top 32 rookies averaging $11 million while they have years left on their deals that will not come close those rookie amounts.


keeping in mind hines ward got the richest signing bonus in steelers history 2 years ago- $8 million, its very easy to see why these proven veteran players are pissed.

fansince'76
05-18-2007, 06:53 PM
I read the Trib-Review article today where a number of agents (who may be trying to recruit the same clients Faneca's agent is seeking to represent) for other Steelers (who may not have Faneca's leverage) questioned Faneca's conduct, but which players have called him out? I did not hear the agents for Troy or Ben saying Faneca should make nice.

Since I think he is trying to force a trade, Exhibit A for why Faneca's conduct makes sense to me is how the Joey Porter situation played out. Porter raised hell and got his FA deal sooner rather than later.

Actually that makes sense. I remember reading a thread earlier today where someone else posted an article (the same one I believe) - I may have confused "other players" with "other players' agents" - my mistake. And you're right, as far as Porter is concerned, the "squeaky wheel" did indeed get the grease in that case, and maybe pitching a bitch was Faneca's strategy as well. I misconstrued your previous post as being apologetic towards Faneca's behavior, but I've read enough of your posts here and I should have known better than that. Sorry.

tony hipchest
05-18-2007, 07:01 PM
its rediculous to think that in todays market, ryan leaf (as a rookie would hold out until he got his $30 million guaranteed signing bonus, whereas proven veterans have to be on a sucky team with tons of cap room to even get market value. granted the market for guards is currently in a bubble( who knows if it will pop), but rookie salaries are simply inflated.

there either needs to be a rookie cap or rookie contracts need to all be incentive laden.

HometownGal
05-18-2007, 07:17 PM
HTG - you may not have sympathy, but here are the numbers on the Browns signing Steinbach, whom I regard as someone to whom Faneca is comparing himself:

Browns signed Steinbach to a 7-year deal worth $49.5 million and with $17 million in guarantees. Steinbach's agent, Jack Bechta, was believed to be seeking a deal close to the one signed by Minnesota guard Steve Hutchinson last season, and Steinbach's pact is actually a slight cut above that one, which was a 7-year pact for $49 million and with $16 million in guarantees.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-steinbach030207&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

My cursory arithmetic skills work that out to be millions less than what Faneca currently is making and what the Steelers allegedly are offering.

I agree it is like listening to investment bankers whine about being underpaid compared to hedge fund operators, or, to use an analogy in a field with which you are particularly familiar, like hearing a Reed Smith partner bi***ing about his partnership draw compared to the draw of a Skadden Arps partner or a plaintiffs' products liability attorney. They all make obscene amounts of $$$, but the Reed Smith attorney is comparatively underpaid.

When it comes to income, individuals compare themselves to their peers and attempt to maximize their self-interest by getting the market rate for their services. We all would like to make what Faneca is making, but my bet is posters on this board only care about Faneca insofar as his situation impacts the Steelers - I know that is my position.

Any logical conclusion that Faneca is acting "unreasonably" presumably requires a frame of reference for what it feels like to be making millions but at the same time have an opportunity to make significantly more. I do not sympathize with Faneca but do not believe we have any grounds beyond our interest in the Steelers as a team in saying his conduct is not appropriate when his own self-interest is the measuring stick.

What Faneca could get away with if he was a clerk negotiating a raise at Giant Eagle and what Faneca can get away with as a professional athlete seeking a new contract are completely different situations - such are the realities of the free market. Some of the posts against Faneca sound depressingly like liberals who constantly complain about "the rich" making too much money.

You make some excellent points here, Dan, and I agree with you for the most part. I, too, am concerned about how the Faneca fiasco will impact the Steelers but I don't stop at the financial ramifications. This team does NOT need any distractions going into this season with a new regime in place - God knows we had enough of that last year and we all know where that season went. I only hope that Faneca can stop with the public blubbering, get his hiney into camp when the time comes, work hard, play hard and do his bitc hing and moaning in private, keeping it out of the locker room and out of the press.

P.S. I'm not a liberal, thank God - LOL! :wink02::flap:

SteelCzar76
05-18-2007, 08:06 PM
HTG - you may not have sympathy, but here are the numbers on the Browns signing Steinbach, whom I regard as someone to whom Faneca is comparing himself:

Browns signed Steinbach to a 7-year deal worth $49.5 million and with $17 million in guarantees. Steinbach's agent, Jack Bechta, was believed to be seeking a deal close to the one signed by Minnesota guard Steve Hutchinson last season, and Steinbach's pact is actually a slight cut above that one, which was a 7-year pact for $49 million and with $16 million in guarantees.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-steinbach030207&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

My cursory arithmetic skills work that out to be millions less than what Faneca currently is making and what the Steelers allegedly are offering.

I agree it is like listening to investment bankers whine about being underpaid compared to hedge fund operators, or, to use an analogy in a field with which you are particularly familiar, like hearing a Reed Smith partner bi***ing about his partnership draw compared to the draw of a Skadden Arps partner or a plaintiffs' products liability attorney. They all make obscene amounts of $$$, but the Reed Smith attorney is comparatively underpaid.

When it comes to income, individuals compare themselves to their peers and attempt to maximize their self-interest by getting the market rate for their services. We all would like to make what Faneca is making, but my bet is posters on this board only care about Faneca insofar as his situation impacts the Steelers - I know that is my position.

Any logical conclusion that Faneca is acting "unreasonably" presumably requires a frame of reference for what it feels like to be making millions but at the same time have an opportunity to make significantly more. I do not sympathize with Faneca but do not believe we have any grounds beyond our interest in the Steelers as a team in saying his conduct is not appropriate when his own self-interest is the measuring stick.

What Faneca could get away with if he was a clerk negotiating a raise at Giant Eagle and what Faneca can get away with as a professional athlete seeking a new contract are completely different situations - such are the realities of the free market. Some of the posts against Faneca sound depressingly like liberals who constantly complain about "the rich" making too much money.





Ultimately buisness is always,... just that. (For the sake of 'keeping things simple') And part of which,....market value is always taken into consideration.

But what i think that many mean to say in regards to Alan making his grievances 'public' are as such,.... "As one whom is considered one of the finest in your chosen profession whatever that may be. From shoe salesman to Ceo. Conduct yourself in such a manner when before the eyes and ears of not only those whom could consider themselves 'peers',...but before those of all others."


For if your are that which you claim to be,...will it not be evident even to those whom would attempt to cast doubt upon this for any reason ?


Bottom line,...every G.M, Owner and player for that matter in this league realizes that Alan is one of the finest Guards of his era,......with more than a 'few good years' left in the 'tank'. Henceforth,.....his "lobbying" is absoloutely unneccessary. As though it will not compremise his next contract (be it here or elswhere) due to the 'facts'. It (the aforementioned "lobbying"),..... does his Legacy an injustice.

TackleMeBen
05-18-2007, 08:14 PM
Dear Alan,

Will you please sign this 8x10 glossy photo of you so i can have it framed and hang it in my office?

Thanks!



http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/turn2_1.jpg

:toofunny: (i still think faneca is top 2 in the game and will continue to be, but this was simply too good to pass up)

i was waiting for something good from you tony..:cheer: you havent let me down yet..:wave:

GBMelBlount
05-18-2007, 09:50 PM
I'm with you on that, SteelerFanInCA, but unfortunately, I think he's gonna be a problem all year. A piss poor attitude tends to be contagious.

76 (G), I would be pissed if I was Faneca, non pro-bowlers making 50% more than me a 6 time pro-bowler. Doesn't make it right to act like he is. But I honestly think '76 that Alan knows next year MAY be his huge payday. So I think when the time comes, he will shut up & play his ass off. He is too smart than to ruin the opportunity for a HUGE final contract.

fansince'76
05-18-2007, 09:56 PM
76 (G), I would be pissed if I was Faneca, non pro-bowlers making 50% more than me a 6 time pro-bowler. Doesn't make it right to act like he is. But I honestly think '76 that Alan knows next year MAY be his huge payday. So I think when the time comes, he will shut up & play his ass off. He is too smart than to ruin the opportunity for a HUGE final contract.

The problem is, he's blaming the Rooneys for other clubs foolishly overspending for marginal OG talent. Too bad they're holding him to his contract, which he signed in good faith. Poor baby. And he's already got his payday waiting barring major injury, regardless of what he does in '07 - if a scrub like Steinbach got in the neighborhood of $50 mil from the Browns, Faneca is pretty much guaranteed $60-$70 mil.

GBMelBlount
05-18-2007, 11:07 PM
The problem is, he's blaming the Rooneys for other clubs foolishly overspending for marginal OG talent. Too bad they're holding him to his contract, which he signed in good faith. Poor baby. And he's already got his payday waiting barring major injury, regardless of what he does in '07 - if a scrub like Steinbach got in the neighborhood of $50 mil from the Browns, Faneca is pretty much guaranteed $60-$70 mil.

UNBELIEVABLE.

ChronoCross
05-18-2007, 11:14 PM
And this could easily went in the other thread.

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=16753

Preacher
05-18-2007, 11:17 PM
The problem is, he's blaming the Rooneys for other clubs foolishly overspending for marginal OG talent. Too bad they're holding him to his contract, which he signed in good faith. Poor baby. And he's already got his payday waiting barring major injury, regardless of what he does in '07 - if a scrub like Steinbach got in the neighborhood of $50 mil from the Browns, Faneca is pretty much guaranteed $60-$70 mil.

That actually is not true.

If there is a glut of moderate to good OG's or linemen on the market next year, the price may go down. That also goes for the draft, depending on how many OG and OL come out which are able to take roster spots.

Also, if an overload of one position comes out.. say.. WR or DB... and they soak up most of the cap money in the beginning... then there won't be enough left to pay the other players. It really all depends on teh year and situation.

Preacher
05-18-2007, 11:22 PM
Yeah Alan

Please listen to us tell you what is in your best personal and financial interests - we know far better than you how the negotiations have proceeded, what the going market rate is for top shelf guards entering the latter stages of their career, and how it feels to be paid in our chosen occupations millions less than comparable specialists.

I know we would all listen to you if you told us how to negotiate raises with our bosses.

One Big Difference... It is my money for direct TV.. my money for Steeler Jersey's, my money spent on the products that are advertised on TV, my money spent on Steeler tickets (For the first time ever!! YEAHHHH).

he DOES work for me partly, since I am one of the MILLIONS that pay his bills and salary. In the same way that if a car dealer gives a great big raise to a salesman... and raises prices because of it... or lowers the value somewhere else because of it.. I CAN make my opinion known... by not buying. In this case, I can and do voice my comments that I want a better overall product, not excellence in a few areas and crap in others (which is what busting the Salary cap with high paid players will do). When I see an issue dealing with that, as a consumer, and the one of millions that ulitmately gives my money to pay his bills, I DO WANT him to listen to me. IF not, he can go find another job.

fansince'76
05-18-2007, 11:23 PM
That actually is not true.

If there is a glut of moderate to good OG's or linemen on the market next year, the price may go down. That also goes for the draft, depending on how many OG and OL come out which are able to take roster spots.

Also, if an overload of one position comes out.. say.. WR or DB... and they soak up most of the cap money in the beginning... then there won't be enough left to pay the other players. It really all depends on teh year and situation.

I disagree - salaries as a whole are trending upward. I think a team like the Texans would give their eye teeth for a G like Faneca, and that's not going to change in a year's time - we're not talking about a marginal to good OG in his case, he is one of the elite. After all, we made Faneca the richest OG in the NFL in 2002 and now his salary isn't even top 10?

Preacher
05-18-2007, 11:28 PM
I disagree - salaries as a whole are trending upward. I think a team like the Texans would give their eye teeth for a G like Faneca, and that's not going to change in a year's time - we're not talking about a marginal to good OG in his case, he is one of the elite. After all, we made Faneca the richest OG in the NFL in 2002 and now his salary isn't even top 10?

Are they trending upward... Yep.

However, the real questions is, is this a trend in Guards, to keep going up... or a momentary blip upwards, to fall back and continue its NORMAL upward climb. I think the latter.

fansince'76
05-18-2007, 11:32 PM
Are they trending upward... Yep.

However, the real questions is, is this a trend in Guards, to keep going up... or a momentary blip upwards, to fall back and continue its NORMAL upward climb. I think the latter.

Good point, Preacher - and supposedly next year is supposed to be a "bumper crop" for OL in the draft. What do you think we should do in Faneca's case? I think at this point we're probably beyond trading him - 3rd round comp pick in '09?

Preacher
05-18-2007, 11:45 PM
Good point, Preacher - and supposedly next year is supposed to be a "bumper crop" for OL in the draft. What do you think we should do in Faneca's case? I think at this point we're probably beyond trading him - 3rd round comp pick in '09?

Well.. I am sad that it DID get to this point. You know, I wouldn't mind trading him now for a first or second round, mainly to be good to the player. However, the other option is to play him this year, and then go back to him next year with a contract and see what he says. WHo knows. Do we have more cap room next year, will we still be paying off Mr. Sweatsuit's contract? Does the cap room move up next year?

However, first thing is, we prioritize. What two of three are most important to keep.. Polamalu.. Faneca.. or Ben?

I say Polamalu and Ben... thus, Let him walk next year and don't get trapped in cap issues. Or.. if it can be afforded, Tag him. With new contracts with Ben and Polamalu, we may be able to afford a 1 year tag at a high price. That way, we wait for the market to settle down and see what the real value is.

GBMelBlount
05-18-2007, 11:47 PM
Next year......OL......draft.....I am freaking out about what will happen with OL this year!!!!!! Hopefully as many say, the competition will create a good OL. (Sorry to change thread topic). GO STEELERS!!!!!!!!

Atlanta Dan
05-19-2007, 08:05 AM
One Big Difference... It is my money for direct TV.. my money for Steeler Jersey's, my money spent on the products that are advertised on TV, my money spent on Steeler tickets (For the first time ever!! YEAHHHH).

he DOES work for me partly, since I am one of the MILLIONS that pay his bills and salary. In the same way that if a car dealer gives a great big raise to a salesman... and raises prices because of it... or lowers the value somewhere else because of it.. I CAN make my opinion known... by not buying. In this case, I can and do voice my comments that I want a better overall product, not excellence in a few areas and crap in others (which is what busting the Salary cap with high paid players will do). When I see an issue dealing with that, as a consumer, and the one of millions that ulitmately gives my money to pay his bills, I DO WANT him to listen to me. IF not, he can go find another job.

Taking your analogy to your logical conclusion, every employee of every company from whom you buy a product should listen to your advice on how to set wages. Please let me know how that works out for you and how much feedback you get from those companies and those employees.

I am not saying you cannot voice your opinion and if you want to boo Faneca while rooting for the Steelers this fall that is what fans do.

I am saying that Alan Faneca is acting in his self-interest, as all of us would. The idea Faneca should back off his demands may be a legitimate means of advancing the interests of the Steelers, but as far as being sound advice for Faneca it is, as I have stated before, like Nancy Pelosi or Ted Kennedy telling an investment banker at Goldmnan Sachs he should reduce his draw. You can decide not to do business with Goldman but have no seat at the table in terms of what Goldman decides to pay its I-bankers and the I-bankers have no obligation to consider what anyone outside the company tells them is the correct method of negotiating their pay, which is their own business.

SteelersMongol
05-19-2007, 11:32 AM
Mr. Faneca. I think we're fortunate to have you as a Steeler and I know anyone could use a little bit of money here and there. But in your case, please BE A MAN! Learn from the Bus! Money isn't everything. People will always love and remember a guy who puts his honor and prestige first, not a man who cried all over the places just because he wasn't getting what the next guy was getting.

Preacher
05-19-2007, 05:59 PM
Taking your analogy to your logical conclusion, every employee of every company from whom you buy a product should listen to your advice on how to set wages. Please let me know how that works out for you and how much feedback you get from those companies and those employees.

I am not saying you cannot voice your opinion and if you want to boo Faneca while rooting for the Steelers this fall that is what fans do.

I am saying that Alan Faneca is acting in his self-interest, as all of us would. The idea Faneca should back off his demands may be a legitimate means of advancing the interests of the Steelers, but as far as being sound advice for Faneca it is, as I have stated before, like Nancy Pelosi or Ted Kennedy telling an investment banker at Goldmnan Sachs he should reduce his draw. You can decide not to do business with Goldman but have no seat at the table in terms of what Goldman decides to pay its I-bankers and the I-bankers have no obligation to consider what anyone outside the company tells them is the correct method of negotiating their pay, which is their own business.

Actually, that is exactly what is happening. People are starting to speak out about gas prices. People are starting to complain about the fact that when they sell a house, the pay to a realtor is 6 percent... on a half million dollar home (which is VERY common here), that is 30,000 PER SALE. So you are having companies cut thier rates... to selling on tiered systems. Actually, my salary is structured EXACTLY like that. When I worked insurace... if the company didn't get thier money because people thought rates were too high... they left, and our bonus structure disappeared.

In capitalism, the consumer is the final and ultimate boss.

On top of that, Steeler fans, especially in Pittsburgh, are more then just consumers. They helped fund the stadium to keep the team there. In a very real sense, they are an investor.

Atlanta Dan
05-19-2007, 07:16 PM
Actually, that is exactly what is happening. People are starting to speak out about gas prices. People are starting to complain about the fact that when they sell a house, the pay to a realtor is 6 percent... on a half million dollar home (which is VERY common here), that is 30,000 PER SALE. So you are having companies cut thier rates... to selling on tiered systems. Actually, my salary is structured EXACTLY like that. When I worked insurace... if the company didn't get thier money because people thought rates were too high... they left, and our bonus structure disappeared.

In capitalism, the consumer is the final and ultimate boss.

On top of that, Steeler fans, especially in Pittsburgh, are more then just consumers. They helped fund the stadium to keep the team there. In a very real sense, they are an investor.

Yep - popular discontent with gas prices has really driven those prices down.:smile:

In a serious response to your points, unlike realtors or insurance (where you can buy the product through different intermediaries because the entry costs to offering an alternative product do not present the hurdles incurred in providing an alternative football league), the NFL is a monopoly and unless you want to give up watching pro football there are not any viable alternatives (R.I.P. USFL and WFL).

Moreover, the points you make relate to a company lowering its price in response to consumers stating they will not pay that price. The Steelers are selling to the consumers (fans) - Faneca is not. The Steelers will have the same fixed costs for salaries regardless of what % of that fixed cost goes to Faneca. Paying Faneca a lower salary will not lower those fixed costs and certainly will not lower ticket/concession/or DirecTV Sunday Ticket prices. So you will get no monetary benefit if Faneca gets paid less, unlike the insurance/realtor situations you describe.

Furthermore, going to the seller side of the issue, in the situations you describe it was in the interest of the realtor and insurance salesman to cut prices or face losing customers and income. Faneca does not face that problem by seeking to max out his salary demands. The only benefit he arguably gives up is that by maxing out his salary there will be less money to pay other players, resulting in a less competitive team. So it arguably provides a non-cash benefit (by playing for a winning team) for Faneca to lower his demands - one of the rare instances where I recall this happening is when Tom Brady deferred (but did not forfeit) some $$ to allow the Patriots to get under the cap.

Unfortunately, the problem is now that Faneca has a ring (like his ex-head coach), Faneca (like his ex-head coach) may be less focused on getting to the Super Bowl again and more focused about cashing in at this stage of his career.

Both the Rooneys and Steeler fans arguably would have a better chance to own or root for a more competitive team if Faneca lowered his #, but if Faneca does not place as great a value on that goal it is his career and his call. It is not his job to make us happy.

I also wish Faneca would lower his # because it would help the team I support, but from an economic standpoint his position is rational and fans complaining about it will not change either his position or his right to take it.

In closing, I apologize for the length of this post, but I always appreciate your thoughtful posts and believe they merit a thoughtful response.

Preacher
05-19-2007, 08:42 PM
Moreover, the points you make relate to a company lowering its price in response to consumers stating they will not pay that price. The Steelers are selling to the consumers (fans) - Faneca is not. The Steelers will have the same fixed costs for salaries regardless of what % of that fixed cost goes to Faneca. Paying Faneca a lower salary will not lower those fixed costs and certainly will not lower ticket/concession/or DirecTV Sunday Ticket prices. So you will get no monetary benefit if Faneca gets paid less, unlike the insurance/realtor situations you describe.

Steelers may have the same fix cost (actually that is not true. There are other ways to pay out bonuses as well that are not necessarily covered in the cap the same way), but they do not necessarily put out the same product, and that is the key. When the fans, who put out all that money, and the Steeler fans in Pittsburgh, who actually put money out via the local government (making them investors in a contorted way) don't get the value for thier money, they are right to complain. If they can pinpoint WHY that value has dropped, then they also can call out the reason for the value dropping. If the value is dropping because one player is demanding money that will fill up cap room and thus drain talent level at other positions, the fans, who have invested financially through their government for a stadium have a right to call it out. In the end, it feels to the average person like a breach of faith.

Yep - popular discontent with gas prices has really driven those prices down.:smile:

Not yet, however it has driven many government agencies to start looking at the reasons. This pricess has just begun. Funny thing is, the government will find that THEY are the reason.... Nevermind... that comment WILL hijack this thread!!! :wink02:

Unfortunately, the problem is now that Faneca has a ring (like his ex-head coach), Faneca (like his ex-head coach) may be less focused on getting to the Super Bowl again and more focused about cashing in at this stage of his career.

Almost make you wonder if the reason he wanted Grimm as coach was because he knew Grimm would go to bat for him in salary... or because he knew he could just enjoy his last few years in the league. Hmmmmm:tap:

In closing, I apologize for the length of this post, but I always appreciate your thoughtful posts and believe they merit a thoughtful response.

Thank you... and I feel the same way. Actually, times I say ahhh... crap! I am going to have to engage my brain again to converse! :sofunny:

Your a smart poster... and always thinks thru things. Thank you for that!

polamalufan43
05-19-2007, 09:36 PM
Quess what, you still have one more year under that contract, SO SHUT UP AND PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!:helmet:

Yeah, I especially love that part. Alan, you can either make the best out of a appearently bad situation, or you can sit there and cry/rant/dis the steelers mgmt. Personally, I'd take the first choice.

~Polamalufan43:tt02:

SteelCzar76
05-19-2007, 11:14 PM
[QUOTE=Preacher;248925

In capitalism, the consumer is the final and ultimate boss.

[/QUOTE]


Because at the end of the day,....it's about what Padre ? You both are fully aware of the same things. (Regardless of 'stance' ) :helmet:

Glace
05-20-2007, 10:45 PM
I don't know what to make of the whole Faneca situation....

On one hand...he's been a great asset...and logic assumes he will play hard this last year of his contract to land a big one next year.

However...Can we afford to start a lineman who has gone public in voicing his anger...saying he doesn't want to be a Steeler next year....refusing to show up to mini-camps. Can we afford to start a lineman who may very well play half-speed to minimize the risk for injury?

I almost wish he'd hold out the entire season...allow his replacment time to grow and develop.

His negative outlook will only add a distraction to the locker room and bring down the moral of the team.

Bye Bye Faneca.....No one can argue your achievements over the years.....but everyone can be replaced....EVERYONE

TackleMeBen
05-21-2007, 07:30 AM
However...Can we afford to start a lineman who has gone public in voicing his anger...saying he doesn't want to be a Steeler next year....refusing to show up to mini-camps. Can we afford to start a lineman who may very well play half-speed to minimize the risk for injury?

I almost wish he'd hold out the entire season...allow his replacment time to grow and develop.

His negative outlook will only add a distraction to the locker room and bring down the moral of the team.


I think if he starts to be a distraction that Mikey T will bench his butt and let someone else that wants to play hard and win take his spot. I am thinking Mikey T is a no crap kind of guy, you have a job or position to play and you will either do it or sit on the bench and look pretty :flap:

83-Steelers-43
05-21-2007, 07:36 AM
However...Can we afford to start a lineman who has gone public in voicing his anger...saying he doesn't want to be a Steeler next year....refusing to show up to mini-camps. Can we afford to start a lineman who may very well play half-speed to minimize the risk for injury?

Well, let's look at it from Faneca's point of view. He wants top guard money. He's not going to get that if he plays at "half-speed". While I felt Faneca went overboard with his comments and made a complete idiot of himself, I do not think he would let his fellow teammates down by purposely playing at a low level. Plus, would you want to confront every player in that Steeler locker room knowing that they know you are not giving 100%? Doesn't sound like a fun day at the office.

Preacher
05-21-2007, 08:01 PM
Well, let's look at it from Faneca's point of view. He wants top guard money. He's not going to get that if he plays at "half-speed". While I felt Faneca went overboard with his comments and made a complete idiot of himself, I do not think he would let his fellow teammates down by purposely playing at a low level. Plus, would you want to confront every player in that Steeler locker room knowing that they know you are not giving 100%? Doesn't sound like a fun day at the office.

ON top of that, a player will get injured easier if he does NOT go full speed. WHen your not full speed, your not mentally in the game, which means you are forgetting things, missing things, etc. He will be full speed, for his own safety if not anything else!

qbvision.com
05-23-2007, 12:51 PM
Coach Tomlin needs to bend Allen over his knee and spank the child.

Allen for everyones sake please dont say another WORD!!

ChronoCross
05-23-2007, 03:29 PM
Alan will play full out and the best he can, he will want a pro bowl season to get even a bigger and better deal when he reaches FA this next season.

We all knew he would not be back until training camp, no big deal.

There is always still a chance come august we still sign him. It might only be a 3% chance but its there.

And there is always another chance of a trade.

No reason to beat the old head over it. What happens happens.

GBMelBlount
05-23-2007, 09:30 PM
Alan will play full out and the best he can, he will want a pro bowl season to get even a bigger and better deal when he reaches FA this next season.

We all knew he would not be back until training camp, no big deal.

There is always still a chance come august we still sign him. It might only be a 3% chance but its there.

And there is always another chance of a trade.

No reason to beat the old head over it. What happens happens.

Well said.