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bigbensgirl7
09-08-2005, 09:45 AM
who's going to win tonight???

Steel - X
09-08-2005, 09:53 AM
I dont see the Raiders pulling out this upset I just can not see it happening. The Raiders may look like they have a high powered offense but do they? With the addition of Moss yes I agree they do look better on paper but is Collins going to be any better with him? Jordan is very raw and has not been the man before in his career he is basically a rookie. I see the pats winning by 14.

bigbensgirl7
09-08-2005, 10:01 AM
I agree. As much as I would like the Raiders to beat the Pats...I don't see it happening!

Steel - X
09-08-2005, 10:06 AM
Hey it could happen and I maybe way off but I just can not see the Pats in the NFL opener on national TV loosing as much as I dislike the pats because they seem to beat us in all the big games they are a very good team and they are the team to beat.

Prosdo
09-08-2005, 12:04 PM
I'm going with the Patriots. I just think they will come out on top.

RoethlisBURGHer
09-08-2005, 12:50 PM
I see the Raiders pulling out the upset,so I chose the Raiders.

Koopa
09-08-2005, 02:56 PM
i would've said the patirots but today in history class me and my cousin started talkin about the game and he got me to change my mind, cause i don't think they'll be able to stop moss or porter, so i'm gonna go with the raiders

Ambridge
09-08-2005, 03:20 PM
If I'm not mistaken the Patriots have yet to lose a regular season game at Gillette Stadium.

New England-24
Oakland-13

Suitanim
09-08-2005, 03:22 PM
I hate both teams, but the Raiders have won less lately, and aren't the media darlings the Pats are, so I'm going emotionally with the Raiders. I think Collins will test the Pats DB's deep, and the Pats will have trouble stopping the run, so I think they are a safe pick, although it's tough to bet against the Pats at home...if this was in the Coliseum, it'd be a no-brainer.

SteelZeal
09-08-2005, 03:49 PM
I think Collins will test the Pats DB's deep, and the Pats will have trouble stopping the run, so I think they are a safe pick, although it's tough to bet against the Pats at home...if this was in the Coliseum, it'd be a no-brainer.

The Pats will have trouble stopping the run? A safe pick? A no-brainer if it was in Oakland? Huh?

The only reason for the Pats to lose this game would be the first week factor - there are a lot of aberration wins in week one. But the Pats have something called "defense," and the Raiders do not.

Pats 31 - Raiders 17

Suitanim
09-08-2005, 04:04 PM
Yes, yes, and yes. Where have you been partner? Do you know who the Pats are starting at inside linebacker? Monty Biesel? Matt Chatham? An ancient Chad Brown? These are the guys to stop the run?

That crazy old man in Oakland has what he wants on offense, and a coach who'll give it to him...Kerry Collins throws as nice a long ball as any QB in the game, and, if Randy Moss wasn't born to play for the Raiders, I don't know who was. LaMont Jordan is ready to break out.
The Pats defense is better than the Raiders, but I think Oakland is going to have an excellent offense this year. If the Raiders can keep the Pats from getting that early lead they almost always seem to get, I think they'll win...

Dirtywater
09-08-2005, 04:41 PM
Raiders 27
Patriots 3

Koopa
09-08-2005, 05:20 PM
hey dirtywater, are you mad at the patriots? or are you just playin around with that prediction?

Koopa
09-08-2005, 09:14 PM
damn the raiders f--kin suck ass. they going to have a long ass season, they ain't got any d, and if you triple moss, collins becomes a retard and doesn't know what to do with the ball. this game is over, and so is the raiders season.

Black-n-Gold
09-08-2005, 09:44 PM
Yeah this isn't turning out the way I thought, i'm a little dissapointed. The majority of the offense is based off of Moss, but I suppose i expected that.

BlitzburghRockCity
09-08-2005, 09:51 PM
Go Raiders!! oh shiat, what am I saying !!! Nah really, the Raiders can do it, the pats are generally a bit of a slow starter, out of the gate, and then gain momentum as the year goes on.

Black-n-Gold
09-08-2005, 10:06 PM
The only thing worse at the moment then Oakland's playing is Madden's commentating lol

BlitzburghRockCity
09-08-2005, 10:14 PM
Madden's commentating is always worse than any game a team could play!! He really needs to hang it up!

Close game 17-14 pats in the 3rd.

Koopa
09-08-2005, 10:25 PM
well the good news is that pats don't look all that good, the raiders just suck, collins needs to be kicked in the head. this offense sucks cause now all you need to do is triple team moss and the game is done, and just throw on them cause their defense sucks. damn it i hate the pats and damn it i hate the raiders even more cause they are loseing, i had to change the channel cause seeing the raiders play like crap and hearing john madden speak was driving me crazy i might've broke something if i would've left it on.

Dirtywater
09-09-2005, 12:42 AM
hey dirtywater, are you mad at the patriots? or are you just playin around with that prediction?


Always make a Karma prediction. The results have been good, no? :grin:

BlitzburghRockCity
09-09-2005, 01:20 AM
Once again the raiders demonstrate how they can't play defense for 4 quarters, how kerry collins best years in the NFL were w/ the panthers in the beginning and its been downhill ever since. He's got no excuse, not w/ those weapons at his disposal.

The pats were just too much in the end and the raiders just couldnt get it done in the end, again...

Suitanim
09-09-2005, 08:17 AM
Some things to note from the game...Raiders Oline is not as solid as predicted by a lot of people, but that may be just a case of confusion (we all know NE can run the same type of blitzes the Steelers can). I only think Collins was sacked once, but he was rushed all day. Better QB's and Olines are in the Pats future.

The Raiders defense is indeed awful, but they did stuff the run for the most part (Dillon 23 for 63), and when they pressured Brady, he made bad throws...too bad they don't really have the defense to do that for a whole game.

Jordan and Crockett between them averaged almost 4.3 a carry, and, even though I think Jordan will have a nice year, he is far, FAR from the best back the Patriots will face this year...they will have trouble stopping the run all year.

Moss had a lousy game, and STILL was 5-130 and a TD...but I can't remember another game where he dropped 2 passes. Still, when Porter gets healthy, teams won't have enough DB's to double and triple Moss AND watch the other WR's running around in the secondary.

Belichick was lucky his team helped him out and covered up for his poor coaching move. If it's 4th and 1 on your 30, you are protecting a slim 3 point lead, and you play a conservative ball control style offense, there are 3 choices: The logical two are either use one of the most accurate kickers in the league in Vinatieri and kick the FG, or punt, pin the opposition deep, and play the field position attrition game The illogical choice is to go for it. Of course, they went for it and failed, and it could have been the turning point of the game, but stupid Kerry Collins couldn't make a decision fast enough and fumbled the game away.

Koopa
09-09-2005, 11:04 AM
Always make a Karma prediction. The results have been good, no? :grin:

lol, well it don't work for me, i tried doing the same thing when we played ya'll in the afcc game.

clevestinks
09-09-2005, 02:14 PM
I say the Pats 30-20, or somewhere close to that! LOL

Livinginthe past
09-10-2005, 01:35 AM
Some things to note from the game...Raiders Oline is not as solid as predicted by a lot of people, but that may be just a case of confusion (we all know NE can run the same type of blitzes the Steelers can). I only think Collins was sacked once, but he was rushed all day. Better QB's and Olines are in the Pats future.

The Raiders defense is indeed awful, but they did stuff the run for the most part (Dillon 23 for 63), and when they pressured Brady, he made bad throws...too bad they don't really have the defense to do that for a whole game.

Jordan and Crockett between them averaged almost 4.3 a carry, and, even though I think Jordan will have a nice year, he is far, FAR from the best back the Patriots will face this year...they will have trouble stopping the run all year.

Moss had a lousy game, and STILL was 5-130 and a TD...but I can't remember another game where he dropped 2 passes. Still, when Porter gets healthy, teams won't have enough DB's to double and triple Moss AND watch the other WR's running around in the secondary.

Belichick was lucky his team helped him out and covered up for his poor coaching move. If it's 4th and 1 on your 30, you are protecting a slim 3 point lead, and you play a conservative ball control style offense, there are 3 choices: The logical two are either use one of the most accurate kickers in the league in Vinatieri and kick the FG, or punt, pin the opposition deep, and play the field position attrition game The illogical choice is to go for it. Of course, they went for it and failed, and it could have been the turning point of the game, but stupid Kerry Collins couldn't make a decision fast enough and fumbled the game away.

You SURE you aint a Raider fan Suitanim?...them grapes look awful sour!

When there has only been one game it is nigh on impossible to tell if the raiders have a 'weak' O-Line...or the Pats have a 'strong' D-Line - but I know where my money is.

The raiders D was awful - They seemed to be solely intent on stopping Dillon at all costs - and it took them a whole quarter to work out that Brady was slicing their secondary into tiny pieces.

Im not sure what 'bad throws' you seen Brady make - if you are pressured then you do the sensible thing and get rid of it as safely as possible - just because it was incomplete doesn't mean it was a bad throw per se.

The Porter and Moss threat will be something else - and coupled with the Raiders terrible D I think I am taking the 'over' spread in the next few raiders games - even if its at 50!

Blah blah Beleichick was lucky.....Brady was lucky - its amazing the ways people find to disrespect certain elements of the Patriots franchise by paying back handed compliments to other parts that functioned well....next week we will be hearing about how "lucky Brady benefitted from great defence...from his OWN team"

I just been on a raider board where they are all crying about how "Brady aint that good, he just has a pro-bowl RB, pro-bowl O-line, and 3 pro-bowl WR's"....so I can assure you that your tactic isn't a new one lol


FYI we have used the 4th down conversion to devastating effect in previous games - fortune favours the brave - and there is nothing quite like the morale boost a team gets when a coach says to his players - "Go and get me that yard - Im confident in your ability"....it also has the effect of demoralising the opposition who thought they were getting the ball back.

Watch as the Patriots grow and grow in stature and confidence as the season wears on - we have quite a few wrinkles to work out of our system.....but I back us to be on top form come the post season.

I cant wait to watch some neutral games and do a bit of scouting.

Cheers

NM

Suitanim
09-10-2005, 09:02 AM
Brady overthrew his receivers at least 3 times off the top of my head...he is not God, and can be pressured into making poor decisions just like any other QB. Are you sure you aren't confusing me with someone else? I think Brady is a fine QB, but it seems awful defensive of you to have to put words in my mouth just because I point out that the dude isn't 100% accurate all the time.

Luck doesn't play a part in the game of football? Certainly you can't dismiss luck...even if you take Lombardi's definition of "Luck is when preparation meets opportunity", there still has been a healthy dose of luck for the Pats in the last few years. I criticize Belichick on that call just like I criticize Cowher every time he makes a stupid call like that...I prefer "Tressel-ball", playing conservative, protecting leads, playing the odds, depending on strong defense. Just because we have a philosophical difference of opinion doesn't mean I'm wrong. I think in that situation he was wrong, "preparation met opportunity" and the Pats defense handed him the ball back.

By the way, the Raiders are high on my list of most hated teams, I just hate the Pats more. My top 5 are...

1. Ratbirds-Satans team, just no redeemable qualities about them at all.
2. Patriots- I hate teams that win all the time, and all the bandwagoning and hyperbole that follows.
3. Raiders- It seems every one of their fans is either in prison, just out of prison, or getting ready to go to prison, and I'm pretty sure they are always drunk.
4. Cowboys- Hatred from the 70's almost went away, but then there were the 90's teams (see #2)
5. Browns/Bengals- Browns used to be higher, but they have just been so pathetic lately it's hard not to feel a little pity. The Bungals are always a hated rival, and their fans coming out at the beginning of every year saying "this year is the year" moves them higher up, but they fade down this list as their inevitable losses build up over each season.

Livinginthe past
09-10-2005, 09:40 AM
Brady overthrew his receivers at least 3 times off the top of my head...he is not God, and can be pressured into making poor decisions just like any other QB. Are you sure you aren't confusing me with someone else? I think Brady is a fine QB, but it seems awful defensive of you to have to put words in my mouth just because I point out that the dude isn't 100% accurate all the time.

Luck doesn't play a part in the game of football? Certainly you can't dismiss luck...even if you take Lombardi's definition of "Luck is when preparation meets opportunity", there still has been a healthy dose of luck for the Pats in the last few years. I criticize Belichick on that call just like I criticize Cowher every time he makes a stupid call like that...I prefer "Tressel-ball", playing conservative, protecting leads, playing the odds, depending on strong defense. Just because we have a philosophical difference of opinion doesn't mean I'm wrong. I think in that situation he was wrong, "preparation met opportunity" and the Pats defense handed him the ball back.

By the way, the Raiders are high on my list of most hated teams, I just hate the Pats more. My top 5 are...

1. Ratbirds-Satans team, just no redeemable qualities about them at all.
2. Patriots- I hate teams that win all the time, and all the bandwagoning and hyperbole that follows.
3. Raiders- It seems every one of their fans is either in prison, just out of prison, or getting ready to go to prison, and I'm pretty sure they are always drunk.
4. Cowboys- Hatred from the 70's almost went away, but then there were the 90's teams (see #2)
5. Browns/Bengals- Browns used to be higher, but they have just been so pathetic lately it's hard not to feel a little pity. The Bungals are always a hated rival, and their fans coming out at the beginning of every year saying "this year is the year" moves them higher up, but they fade down this list as their inevitable losses build up over each season.

Talk about Hyperbole ha ha!

Most of your comments seem to be based on a statement of the obvious - allow me to agree with you to save you posting this stuff again.

1. I agree that Brady is not THE God or, for that matter, ANY God.

2. I agree that Tom Brady is not accurate 100% of the time

3. I wont dismiss luck as a factor - but its what you do with the opportunity that luck presents to you that counts - you dont think it was 'good luck' for alot of teams last year that we had an UDFA and WR playing at DB?

As far as your opinion on BB play calls on 4th down - we can agree to disagree - look what conservative play calling got the Colts last year.

You must be able to see why I find to give any sort of credence to your 'opinions' when you go ahead and admit that you hate the Patriots only slightly less than the Ravens - for the terrible sin of being better than the Steelers.

I think its fair to say that you only offer praise for a talented team when you game find some way of 'doing down' another element of the Patriots set up.

Cheers

NM

Dirtywater
09-10-2005, 12:11 PM
Luck is when opportunity meets preparation. No wonder we're 'lucky' alot.

Suitanim
09-10-2005, 01:44 PM
This is getting boring. I have several teams on that list that aren't better than the Steelers, and I hate them almost as much or more than the Patriots.

You are overly sensitive about criticism directed towards your team, and this is while they are at their absolute zenith...I can't imagine how you are going to react when the pendulum swings back the other way (as it inevitbly will), and the Pats are just mediocre again...

Livinginthe past
09-10-2005, 03:20 PM
This is getting boring. I have several teams on that list that aren't better than the Steelers, and I hate them almost as much or more than the Patriots.

You are overly sensitive about criticism directed towards your team, and this is while they are at their absolute zenith...I can't imagine how you are going to react when the pendulum swings back the other way (as it inevitbly will), and the Pats are just mediocre again...

I really can do this all day - keep rebutting your weak arguments...after all I believe that is one of the points of this forum no?

Im using your own words to make my point - "I hate teams that win all the time..."

Sure there might be teams on that list that lose more regularly than the Steelers - but the expressed reason you gave for disliking us was that we 'won more'.

I dont believe I am being overly sensitive about anything - if you post stuff on the public domain you are surely inviting comment?!?

I guess the point I am making is that, in the absense of any real weaknesses in the Patriots set-up, alot of people have resorted to paying the team back handed compliments....ie thank god you got a pro-bowl part A...because your part B sucks...and suchlike....

If you find this tiresome maybe you should stop posting opinionated nonsense...just a suggestion.

Cheers

NM

Suitanim
09-10-2005, 03:37 PM
Pretty much what I'm hearing is that I am wrong, even in arguments I am not trying to make, because you say so.

Nonsense, indeed...

Livinginthe past
09-10-2005, 04:00 PM
I will never understand this attitude you get on some forums - you post an opinion.... you should prepare for people to pass judgement on it.

You say what you want and that is fine...freedom of speech and all that....but please stop whining about how you are wrong because I say so.

If you dont want anyone to disagree with you....keep them thoughts where they originated...in your head!

NM

Suitanim
09-10-2005, 04:21 PM
I will never understand this attitude you get on some forums - you post an opinion.... you should prepare for people to pass judgement on it.

You say what you want and that is fine...freedom of speech and all that....but please stop whining about how you are wrong because I say so.

If you dont want anyone to disagree with you....keep them thoughts where they originated...in your head!

NM

But this is essentially the pot calling the kettle black! You are doing the exact same thing I'm doing, albeit with a few ad hominem attacks thrown in for good measure.

Look here?let?s take a couple of arguments I?ve made and put them to the test:



A) I said conservative football is best, and you disagreed. You said "Look what conservative play calling got the Colts last year". Here?s two examples of why that?s silly. One is the 2002 Jim Tressel led Buckeyes. They played ultra-conservative all year, and Tressel makes no secret that he thinks the punt is the most important play in football. Where did they end up? As National Champions. Actually, this is really silly on your part because it?s an attempt to sit on both sides of the fence, since Bill Belichick is easily one of the most conservative coaches in the NFL. He plays ball control offense, emphasizing defense and special teams and building early leads and protecting them.


B) I said the loss of the OC, DC and players who represented 250 tackles on your defense will take it's toll on the Pats this year and they won't win the division, and you disagreed. Fine...but how do you know I'm wrong? Are you prescient? That's why they play the season. You are stating I'm wrong based on no facts, just opinions...essentially you are saying MY opnions are wrong because they are not YOUR opinions.


So, let's summarize. We both have opinions, but, when I express mine, it's "opinionated nonsense", and when you express yours, they are the correct and proper opinions.


That's why this is growing tiresome. I've tried to be a little blithe here and there, poke fun at a couple different teams and such, but you don't seem to have much of a sense of humor either. It's no fun arguing with people who are right all the time, even when they aren't.

Livinginthe past
09-10-2005, 05:02 PM
You appear to be totally oblivious to the irony of your last post....OF COURSE I am doing what you are doing....its called a debate.

When I post an opinion I am quite happy to read replies and make further comment - I never tell people they cant post..which is esssentially what you are saying to me.

I think my efforts have borne some fruit - you have now given me some examples of how conservative play calling can work out well and I respect your opinion.

I fail to see how that PUNT can possibly be the most important play in football, if that was the case then surely there would be punters going in the 1st round?

I am well aware that a blocked punt can cause serious issues with field placement but surely the lack of a decent QB would present larger problems - see 2004 Dolphins.

What you wont get with me is posts that are consistently prefaced with IMO...or JMO...or IMHO....its pretty much a given that most of my posts are based on my opinion - if I have facts then I shall draw attn to that.

I have to wonder if you are deliberately misinterpreting my posts - I have never said that I KNEW that Patriots will win their division but merely that, in my judgement, they were the best team in the division and a had a better than average chance of finishing top.

Please try to be a little less sensitive - I enjoy the back and forth of debating football on forums.

cheers

NM

Suitanim
09-10-2005, 05:27 PM
I've been posting in MB smack forums for 7-8 years, way back in the infancy of these things...not only am I not sensitive, I'd say I've been pretty thoroughly DE-sensitized over the years...

Other than that, we seem to be back on track here...