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tony hipchest
06-04-2007, 09:53 PM
madden, villapiano, stabler give commentary. other than the 5 steelers, this has got to be the best one yet. so much better the 2nd time around.

the story of fred belitnikof chain smoking before games, throwing up for 20 minutes, and then puffing a few more drags in the tunnell is priceless.

their "pad guy" used to practically construct casts for them to wear. brown(?) had a fake "broken thumb for 7 years" villapiano recalls, as he gleefully says he could jab the false cast up into someones liver and "knock lc greenwood out with his thumb alone".

they talked about fred b. and all the stick um he used and showed the big ol glob stuck to his sock :sofunny:

john madden in his skin tight baby blue slacks :toofunny:

fans burning steeler pennants in the crowd for the final monday night game vs the bengals (a game that knocked the bengals out of the playoffs and put the steelers in). many thought they would throw the game to not have to face the steelers. they instead kicked the bungles ass.

i really like villapiano after this but, man, his hatred and resentment towards the steelers still runs deep. its great. raiders had the final score against the steelers in the afcc game put on their ring, not that of the actual sb.

revefsreleets
06-04-2007, 10:03 PM
But Fred Biletnikoff was a true legend. Is he worse because he smoked legal cigarettes then Randy Moss smoking illegal ones? I've seen Randy Moss take plays off and not run routes and drop all kinds of passes, but Biletnikoff was known as the guy who never dropped a pass he touched. He played every down. He's in the HOF.

tony hipchest
06-04-2007, 10:10 PM
But Fred Biletnikoff was a true legend. Is he worse because he smoked legal cigarettes then Randy Moss smoking illegal ones? I've seen Randy Moss take plays off and not run routes and drop all kinds of passes, but Biletnikoff was known as the guy who never dropped a pass he touched. He played every down. He's in the HOF.
maybe this thread came off as sarcastic, but it really isnt. i loved the 3 commentators and the fred stories were great. no wonder they name the college wr of the year award named after him. but its funny they showed them spraying cans of this shit all over his arms and with so much goop on his hands he had to have trainers place a stick of gum in his mouth. i think it was stabler who kiddingly said "go out, smoke 2 packs a day, barf for 20 minutes, and make the hall of fame".

im definitely not knocking it. i appreciate that! randy moss and his hippie lettuce wouldnt have even lasted a year in the league back then, let alone through training camp on that roster. another trick they used that i liked was taping their arms in white tape when they played opponents in white jerseys and taping their arms in black when they'd play a team in black (like the steelers in 3 rivers) they did this to make it more difficult for the refs to see when they held.

Atlanta Dan
06-04-2007, 10:16 PM
It was interesting to see the rivalry from the perspective of the Black & Silver and how much the losses to the Steelers ate that team up. Kind of like watching Das Boot or Eastwood's Letters From Iwo Jima.

Due to the general dilution of talent in free agency, the 70s Raiders certainly were a cut above the Cowher Steelers, but there are striking similarities. Numerous AFC Championship game losses, finally a SB win, and then it was if the goal was achieved and it quickly was over. Madden was even younger than Cowher when he retired only 2 years after winning SB XI.

Raiders retooled and actually won more SBs with Flores as coach than with Madden as HC - hopefully an omen for there being potential for great success after a legendary coach departs.

tony hipchest
06-04-2007, 10:40 PM
interresting point atl dan. :tap: i hadnt even thought of the correlation between the 2. lets hope tomlin proves to be a modern day flores.

it was funny hearing villapiano talking about frenchy fuqua after both our 2 backs were out for that game. "...suddenly he wasnt good enough for them". he was quite a character. if he were playing todqay, id probably be a fan (i can even say i like namdi asamough)

silver & black
06-05-2007, 06:35 AM
madden, villapiano, stabler give commentary. other than the 5 steelers, this has got to be the best one yet. so much better the 2nd time around.

the story of fred belitnikof chain smoking before games, throwing up for 20 minutes, and then puffing a few more drags in the tunnell is priceless.

their "pad guy" used to practically construct casts for them to wear. brown(?) had a fake "broken thumb for 7 years" villapiano recalls, as he gleefully says he could jab the false cast up into someones liver and "knock lc greenwood out with his thumb alone".

they talked about fred b. and all the stick um he used and showed the big ol glob stuck to his sock :sofunny:

john madden in his skin tight baby blue slacks :toofunny:

fans burning steeler pennants in the crowd for the final monday night game vs the bengals (a game that knocked the bengals out of the playoffs and put the steelers in). many thought they would throw the game to not have to face the steelers. they instead kicked the bungles ass.

i really like villapiano after this but, man, his hatred and resentment towards the steelers still runs deep. its great. raiders had the final score against the steelers in the afcc game put on their ring, not that of the actual sb.

Those were the days! Those days are why I come to your site. I loved the rivalry and the bone crushing games the Raiders and Steelers played back then.

By the way, Lester Hayes is the one known for the stickum, not Freddy B... although Freddy may have used it too. :sofunny:

silver & black
06-05-2007, 06:40 AM
It was interesting to see the rivalry from the perspective of the Black & Silver and how much the losses to the Steelers ate that team up. Kind of like watching Das Boot or Eastwood's Letters From Iwo Jima.

Due to the general dilution of talent in free agency, the 70s Raiders certainly were a cut above the Cowher Steelers, but there are striking similarities. Numerous AFC Championship game losses, finally a SB win, and then it was if the goal was achieved and it quickly was over. Madden was even younger than Cowher when he retired only 2 years after winning SB XI.

Raiders retooled and actually won more SBs with Flores as coach than with Madden as HC - hopefully an omen for there being potential for great success after a legendary coach departs.

Thats an assessment that I agree with. Hopefully, the Raiders are starting a comeback that could lead to a rekindling of the best rivalry the NFL has ever seen (IMO).

For the record... its Silver & Black... not the other way around! :wink02:

Elvis
06-05-2007, 06:52 AM
Silver & Black, as always I love all your threads pretty much and respect you as a Raidddddddddersssss fan. I honestly can say though with all do respect to you... I just couldnt stand the Raiders back then. But in the early to mid 80's it was the Bengals with Ken Anderson and Co. that I couldnt stand. My buddy Hank, is a big Raiders fan and he is pretty excited about this years Raiders team, as he should be... but you guys are gonna have 1 less win this year since we are not on your schedule this year:wink02:. Thats what I told him and he just laughed...
God Still Answers Prayers
Elvis

silver & black
06-05-2007, 03:44 PM
Silver & Black, as always I love all your threads pretty much and respect you as a Raidddddddddersssss fan. I honestly can say though with all do respect to you... I just couldnt stand the Raiders back then. But in the early to mid 80's it was the Bengals with Ken Anderson and Co. that I couldnt stand. My buddy Hank, is a big Raiders fan and he is pretty excited about this years Raiders team, as he should be... but you guys are gonna have 1 less win this year since we are not on your schedule this year:wink02:. Thats what I told him and he just laughed...
God Still Answers Prayers
Elvis

I can understand your feelings toward the Raiders back then... I felt pretty much the same way about the Steelers :flap:
I would love to see the Raiders and the Steelers become the two most dominant teams in the NFL again. You guys are pretty much there... we have a bit of work to do yet. See you in the AFC Championship game in a few years :cheers:.

tony hipchest
06-08-2007, 05:21 PM
staying true to their word to delameillure, tim ryan and pat kirwan have been having alot of old time players on their show, and today they had villapiano on. another great interview, and i'd have to say him and g. upshaw arent the best of buds. hes doing alot of work to raise money for an ex teammate (?steve smith i believe?) who currently has ALS, is dying, and cant pay his bills. a bunch of old timers are participating in a golf tournament for him. he was flabbergasted when tim ryan told him that a 5 year player can retire today and draw a pension of $400,000 when he turns 62.

villapiano took his pension out early at 56 cause he wants to be alive to enjoy it. he talked about not being able to sleep at night because both of his arms go numb and he has to "shake it off". tim ryan followed up saying he has the same thing and they both discussed how they dont know what causes it. very interesting stuff and i respect the hell out of these guys starting to band together to fight a large cause, and tim and pat not just sweeping these issues under the rug.

onthebus36
06-08-2007, 05:34 PM
"Those were the days! Those days are why I come to your site. I loved the rivalry and the bone crushing games the Raiders and Steelers played back then."

I've seen a couple interviews with players from both teams and they both feel like it was them and everyone else. While different players have different feelings about their opponent, they universally agree that in the 70's, the Steelers and Raiders were several clicks above almost everyone else.

RoethlisBURGHer
06-09-2007, 12:22 AM
Upshaw is a son-of-a-bitch for trying to make sure the old-timers are srewed over,especially since he's one of them.Those guys paved the way for the guys making the millions of dollars.

But what does Upshaw care?He knows he'll be taken care of for the rest of his life because he was lucky enough to land a high-profile gig in the NFL after his playing days...something most former-players don't do.

To me,he represents everything the Raiders were in the 70's: underhanded,dirty,and cheaters to a certain degree.

But the 70's Raiders were one helluva ball club that I hate with a passion but respect tremendously (btw,I am a huge Tatum fan cuz the Assasin went to Ohio State).However,when it comes to Upshaw as the head of the NFLPA,I just hate him with absolutley no respect for him.

silver & black
06-09-2007, 10:02 AM
Upshaw is a son-of-a-bitch for trying to make sure the old-timers are srewed over,especially since he's one of them.Those guys paved the way for the guys making the millions of dollars.

But what does Upshaw care?He knows he'll be taken care of for the rest of his life because he was lucky enough to land a high-profile gig in the NFL after his playing days...something most former-players don't do.

To me,he represents everything the Raiders were in the 70's: underhanded,dirty,and cheaters to a certain degree.

But the 70's Raiders were one helluva ball club that I hate with a passion but respect tremendously (btw,I am a huge Tatum fan cuz the Assasin went to Ohio State).However,when it comes to Upshaw as the head of the NFLPA,I just hate him with absolutley no respect for him.


I see you are only 21. You couldn't possibly have seen the Raiders, or the Steelers play in the 70's... let alone have a credible opinion of what went on during that time in the NFL. The only thing you have to go on is what you have heard and seen from the media and other fans that hate the Raiders. that doesn't constitute an educated opinion of a time you weren't around to experience.

Since I am quite a bit older, and a 40 year fan of the Raiders, I will give you a little insight on the Raiders of the 70's.

Most people don't know this. Al Davis, being a Brooklyn native, was a Yankees fan, and a very big admirer of George Steinbrenner. When he took over the Raiders, (became managing general partner) he decided that the Raiders would be run and patterned after the way Steinbrenner built and ran the Yankees, because he felt it was a winning formula... and it was/is.

Yes, the Raiders were comprised of guys that had problems with other teams and generally didn't fit in other places... round pegs in square holes. Al Davis gave these guys a place to be themselves, and John Madden let them do what they wanted, as long as it was leagal, and they came to play on Sunday.

The persona of the Raiders being crimminals is far from the truth. They were a collection of over the top personalities that generally liked to have a good time without being being told they weren't allowed. Al Davis knew that if he gave guys like that their space, and let them be themselves, they could, and would, perform on the football field... and perform they did!

They were rough, tough, physical, in your face guys that made no bones about what they were going to do when they took the field. They used intimidation as a weapon. That meant taking the rules to the ragged edge, and sometimes just beyond. It meant flagrantly breaking the rules on purpose, with a cheap shot, to instill fear, and dare a WR to go over the middle again. The Raiders' modus operadi was... "this is what we are going to do, stop us, if you can"

I don't think the Steelers of that time were much different. A little more polished, and less rough around the edges, perhaps, but the same rough, physical type of players the Raiders were.

Unfortunately those times are gone, never to return. The NFL has turned into a bunch of selfish, me first, all about the money, primadonas. The 70's was the golden age of the NFL. There are a few Steelers fans here who would agree with me on that. The players of today would be considered whiny little sissies by the player of the 70's. They couldn't last 10 minutes on the field with any of those guys.

Not only was I around to watch your Steelers during that time, I do my own research about other teams and their players, coaches and owners, before making broad, sweeping generalizations that are nothing more than here-say, perpetuated by the media and other fans.

It's ok to dislike the Raiders... just be informed about what you think you dislike before making statements you can't back up.

Atlanta Dan
06-09-2007, 10:58 AM
Silver and Black - I too lived through that era (attended the Immaculate Reception and frigid AFC championship game in January 76 at TRS) and agree that the Steelers and the Raiders were cut from the same cloth.

However, I believe that over time the reason the Steelers were regarded as "physical" and the Raiders developed more of a thug image was Tatum's hit that paralyzed Darryl Stingley in an exhibition game in 1978. It was not a penalty, but that injury still cast the entire Raiders team in a different light.

In addition, one player from that era I do think was a thug was George Atkinson. I know there are shots of Mel Blount tackling Cliff Branch by putting his helmet into the ground and other hard hits by both teams that were borderline.

However, nothing else approaches Atkinson coming from behind and punching Lynn Swann in the back of the head below the helmet in the September opener for the 1976 season in Oakland rather than attempt to tackle Franco Harris, who was running through the secondary with the ball at the time. That was nothing other than an attempt to injure a player whom Atkinson knew had been knocked out of the January 1976 AFC championship game due to a severe concussion.

Although the Steelers pulled away in the second half of the decade, the Dolphins, Raiders, and Steelers were neck and neck for best team of the decade through the mid-70s.

silver & black
06-09-2007, 11:24 AM
Silver and Black - I too lived through that era (attended the Immaculate Reception and frigid AFC championship game in January 76 at TRS) and agree that the Steelers and the Raiders were cut from the same cloth.

However, I believe that over time the reason the Steelers were regarded as "physical" and the Raiders developed more of a thug image was Tatum's hit that paralyzed Darryl Stingley in an exhibition game in 1978. It was not a penalty, but that injury still cast the entire Raiders team in a different light.

In addition, one player from that era I do think was a thug was George Atkinson. I know there are shots of Mel Blount tackling Cliff Branch by putting his helmet into the ground and other hard hits by both teams that were borderline.

However, nothing else approaches Atkinson coming from behind and punching Lynn Swann in the back of the head below the helmet in the September opener for the 1976 season in Oakland rather than attempt to tackle Franco Harris, who was running through the secondary with the ball at the time. That was nothing other than an attempt to injure a player whom Atkinson knew had been knocked out of the January 1976 AFC championship game due to a severe concussion.

Although the Steelers pulled away in the second half of the decade, the Dolphins, Raiders, and Steelers were neck and neck for best team of the decade through the mid-70s.

I never said that some very cheap shots weren't deliverd. The Atkinson shot on Swann was definately an uncalled for, cheap shot. It was a forearm shot, not a punch :flap: I remember the Mel Blount tackle of Cliff Branch... also not cool.

Tatum's hit on Stingley was NOT a cheap shot. It was a clean, leagal hit. I have watched it a hundred times, and I can't be convinced otherwise. The outcome was definately unfortunate. That one play ruined two guys' lives... one more so than than the other, but two none the less. If Tatum wasn't the ferocious hitter he was, and he didn't play for the Raiders, the whole thing would be looked at differently today.

I think the games between the Raiders and the Steelers just brought out another level of intensity and emotion from both teams.... I sure miss those games! :cheers:

Atlanta Dan
06-09-2007, 11:57 AM
I think the games between the Raiders and the Steelers just brought out another level of intensity and emotion from both teams.... I sure miss those games! :cheers:

:iagree:

For me the NFL prior to the late 70s rules changes was when the game was at its absolute peak

:cheers: