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83-Steelers-43
06-21-2007, 10:53 AM
Don't look now, but Smizik grew a uccello and decided to speak up even though he's about six years late.....

Bob Smizik: Pirates' ownership not likely to change fiscal ways
Wednesday, June 20, 2007

By Bob Smizik, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Listen carefully to Bob Nutting, the principal owner of the Pirates, and you can see the future of the franchise. Sadly, it's no different than the present or the recent past. A lack of commitment permeates this organization. It starts at the top, and there is no indication it is about to change. Major League Baseball is the only one of the four main professional leagues in this country that does not have a salary cap. That means, beyond doubt, the quickest path to success is by spending money on payroll. Strong scouting and player development can diminish but not eliminate the advantage of larger payroll. Of course, there's no indication the Pirates' scouting and player development is anything better than mediocre. Consequently, what you see is what you get.

Since Kevin McClatchy bought the team, with a group that included G. Ogden Nutting (Bob Nutting's father) as a principal financier, in 1996, the Pirates have been last in payroll in their division nine times in 12 years. Twice, they have been next to last and once, in 2001, they were fourth in a six-team division.

That's not going to get it done. Nor is it going to change.

At his first news conference as principal owner Nutting categorically denied ownership was putting profit in its pocket.

"The ownership group is not taking money out of the team and putting it in their pockets," he said. "We are not moving profits."

McClatchy supported that statement. He said, "We are not paying ourselves dividends and we're reinvesting every penny that we've made back into the club."

Sounds good, and we believe them. But where is the money going?

We know it's not going to payroll. The team's payroll is a distant last in the Central Division. Three of the Central teams have double the payroll of the Pirates. With the team's books closed to the public, it is anyone's guess where the profit is going. Here's ours:

The profit is going to pay down debt, which the team incurred in the building of PNC Park and in the early days of ownership. By paying down debt, they increase the value of the franchise. Which is to say, the money is not going in Nutting's pocket -- yet.

At that same news conference, Nutting famously said,

"Questioning my commitment or my family's commitment to winning, I think that's completely inappropriate."

Sounds good, but vague. Anyone can have a commitment to winning. But what is the level of that commitment?

Judging from the team's failure earlier this month to draft Georgia Tech catcher Matt Wieters, widely regarded as the player who could most quickly help the Pirates, the commitment is a weak one. Wieters, a client of agent Scott Boras, would have demanded a considerably higher signing bonus than Daniel Moskos, the Pirates' pick.

Again, let's listen to Nutting:

"It is important to remember that the draft is relatively unsure. It's high risk. "

The key phrase in that comment is "high risk." Nutting wants no part of risk. He wants stability. Stability is good if you're a team that has a quality roster, a high payroll and a strong farm system. The Pirates have none of those. The Pirates need to take risks. They need to think outside the box. They need not stop taking pitchers in the draft when they have a crying need for position players.

They need to think like the Detroit Tigers, a franchise that early in 2004 was considerably worse than the Pirates. The Tigers had lost 225 games in the previous two seasons. It was the third time they had lost more than 100 games since 1996. They Pirates never have lost more than 100 in their current 14-year losing streak.

Detroit ownership understood it had to take risks to get better. It could not continue on the same path. The Tigers signed catcher Ivan Rodriquez to a four-year, $40 million contract early in 2004 when no other team would pay that price for a player who was in decline. With Rodriquez on the team, the Tigers went from 43 wins to 72, an incredible turnaround. The next off-season, they signed Magglio Ordonez, another player believed to be in decline, to a five-year contract that could pay up to $75 million.

The Tigers went high risk, and two years later they were in the World Series. This year they are in second place in the American League Central, 11 games over .500, and Ordonez has 64 RBIs, second in the American League.

That's the kind of risk Nutting would never take, which is why the Pirates will never make the kind of improvement the Tigers did.

One more comment from Nutting.

The day last January when he replaced McClatchy as the team's principal owner, he said, "There's really no change in how we're doing business."

Very true and very sad.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07171/795567-194.stm

83-Steelers-43
06-21-2007, 10:54 AM
And then Bob had to say this.......

Sounds good, and we believe them. But where is the money going?

Speak for yourself Bob. It's called in their pockets Bob. Someday when you remove your head from your culo you will see that.

83-Steelers-43
06-21-2007, 10:57 AM
Between Cook, Steigerwald (grills them) and Kovacevic they have been the most vocal in this city when it comes to the Pirates pathetic display of ownership. They have actually been putting heat on these guys for some time now. They didn't just start this season......

Ron Cook: Front office should be accountable
Tuesday, June 19, 2007

By Ron Cook, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Is it just me or have the Pirates finally stumbled on to an amazing concept after all of these losing years?

Actual accountability?

I know, I'm struggling to believe it, too.

But accountability seems to be exactly what manager Jim Tracy is starting to demand these days.

We saw it when he took Tony Armas out of the starting rotation, when he demoted Salomon Torres from closer to setup man, when he benched Chris Duffy and Ronny Paulino for brief periods and when he discarded relievers Marty McLeary, Brian Rogers and Josh Sharpless after a quick look. Most significantly, we saw it last week when Tracy benched Jack Wilson, the team's highest-paid player and a sizable presence in the clubhouse.

I'm thinking it was one of this laughable franchise's better weeks in years.

Make no mistake, the other players noticed the Wilson benching. How could they not notice? It was easy to read minds. If this can happen to Jack, it can happen to anyone. Maybe I better start paying a little more attention to detail ...

I'm not suggesting that necessarily had a lot to do with the Pirates' 4-2 homestand last week or that the wins were the result of anything more than the perfect timing that goes with playing the woeful Texas Rangers and the woeful Chicago White Sox in consecutive series.

I'm just saying that's the way you run a team, making players accountable, making them have to perform to keep their starting spots.

Too bad the front office doesn't operate that way.

For too long, lousy ownership -- the worst in all of sports, actually -- has been the Pirates' main problem. The franchise either didn't have enough money to compete or, as appears to be the case now, puts too much into the owners' pockets and not enough into the product. On those rare occasions when money was spent on payroll, horrible decisions were made, notably the Jason Kendall signing, which set the organization back for years. Many more poor business decisions were made that negated what should have been a lucrative move into PNC Park in 2001, then negated the momentum that should have been generated by the second-chance lifeline that was the 2006 All-Star Game.

But the worst thing is no one cares.

It's hard to say Kevin McClatchy demanded accountability. He stuck with general manager Cam Bonifay for almost eight years even though Bonifay didn't produce one winning season. Nothing much has changed with Robert Nutting as boss. General manager Dave Littlefield is approaching his six-year anniversary with the team and hasn't come close to winning, either.

Some teams would have fired Littlefield after the '05 season. Not the Pirates. They gave him a one-year contract extension through '08. A lot more teams would have fired Littlefield after the '06 season when he threw away $17.5 million on Joe Randa, Jeromy Burnitz, Sean Casey and Roberto Hernandez and the team was 30-60 at the All-Star break, a record that didn't add much to the atmosphere for the big All-Star party at PNC Park. Now, a 15th consecutive losing season is inevitable.

It's bad enough that Littlefield still is calling the shots. What's worse is there doesn't appear to be the least bit of heat on him from management. Asked point-blank a month ago if he was concerned about his job, Littlefield seemed incredulous. "I think we've got a good plan in place and we're making strides. I actually feel encouraged where we're at and where we're going."

The Pirates were 15-20 at the time. They are 30-39 now. It doesn't look like they're headed toward much of a destination spot this summer.

Littlefield talked of the improvement the Pirates have made since last season. That's ridiculous. How do you not improve on a 30-60 start? And is that really anything to be proud of? He talked of the significance of having four young homegrown starting pitchers, the only team in baseball that can make that claim. He talked of having all his key players signed or their rights secured for the next three seasons, some for four or five seasons.

"This is the first time we've had players like this," Littlefield said. "We have a group together for the first time that I believe can grow together. Look out on the field. The evidence is out there."

A month later, I still don't see it.

All I see is a team that's way short and a front office that doesn't care.

It's one thing for Tracy to demand accountability from the players.

I'd rather see Nutting demand it from Littlefield.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07170/795272-87.stm

tony hipchest
06-21-2007, 11:09 AM
the good news is the pirate mascott seems to have breathed life into the franchise.

the bad news is the red sox and yankees have taken notice and are offering to trade one of babe ruths old sox and a bat boy for him.

the pirates are either going to jump on this "great deal" or make the parrot the highest paid "player" on the team (a la jason kendall).

lets go bucs!

83-Steelers-43
06-21-2007, 11:20 AM
the good news is the pirate mascott seems to have breathed life into the franchise.

the bad news is the red sox and yankees have taken notice and are offering to trade one of babe ruths old sox and a bat boy for him.

the pirates are either going to jump on this "great deal" or make the parrot the highest paid "player" on the team (a la jason kendall).

lets go bucs!

:toofunny:

We already ruined our other mascot (that freaky looking Pirate) in the Macscot Minor Leagues. Blew out his arm. But I hear we are working with him. We are now attempting to change his style (ala Duke and Duffy).

83-Steelers-43
06-21-2007, 11:36 AM
Even those these protests never work (ask Lion fans), it's good to see some fans are tired of this circus we call a MLB franchise. Eitherway, if your tired of ownership and you continue to give them money I don't see how things are going to change. Good luck.

Tired of losing, Pirates fans plot protest
By Karen Price
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, June 21, 2007

Some angry Pirates fans are hoping a protest June 30 at PNC Park doesn't fall on deaf ears.

Andy Chomos and Sean Lucas are two of the organizers behind Fans for Change, a grass-roots campaign aimed at recent decisions by team management.

The protest will consist of a pregame rally and petition-signing on Federal Street from 5-7 p.m. During the game against the Washington Nationals, protesters will leave their seats after the third inning and will have the option of staying in the concourse until the fifth inning or leaving the ballpark.

Chomos, a 43-year-old business owner from Wexford, wants fans to wear green shirts, to symbolize money leaving the building.

"We want to demonstrate that we're not satisfied with the product on the field, with the general manager's moves and ownership's not committing to producing a winner," he said.

The movement started about 10 days ago when Lucas, a Master of Business Administration student at Duquesne, sent a letter to local media outlets. The letter was reported by a TV station and later made its way to the Internet. Through blogs and message boards, the idea for the protest gained shape.

"The goal is to give upset fans, fed-up fans, an outlet to voice their opinion publicly for the first time in 14 years of losing baseball," said Lucas, 25, of the North Hills.

A Pirates spokesman said the team has no comment on the protest.

Chomos said he's gotten 7,000 e-mail responses about the protest. Lucas said his group passed out flyers during the Pirates' most recent home series and talked to 1,500 fans.

"Ninety-nine percent loved the idea," Lucas said. "Whether they'll come, that's their decision. But people loved the idea."

Chomos has heard the skeptics who believe the protest will accomplish nothing. The sentiment there, he said, is that unhappy fans can best make their feelings known by not showing up at all.

"But the problem is we want to go," Chomos said. "We paid for (PNC Park), we want to go. We recognize that the beautiful ballpark, a ballpark paid for by the taxpayers, is a jewel and, frankly, there are enough casual baseball fans that people are going to continue to go. And people should not be denied the right to go to the game."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_513583.html

Buzz05
06-21-2007, 11:40 AM
I really hope the protest does something...the Pirates are an embarassment to what the city stands for...

SteelCityMan786
06-21-2007, 11:56 AM
It worked in Baltimore, they actually spent money to get players. The only thing, is they didn't spend it wisely enough.

Buzz05
06-21-2007, 12:01 PM
It worked in Baltimore, they actually spent money to get players. The only thing, is they didn't spend it wisely enough.

Actualy that is the big debate here now. Since the fired Perlozzo who I feel was a good manager a lot of people are saying that they dont have any players. Their farm system is in shambles and they are just an all around terrible franchise. The O's ownder, Peter Angelos, is comparable to the Pirates ownership. The Pirates and the O's are very similar teams...amazing ball parks...terrible teams. The players here just dont care...thats half the problem here and in Pittsburgh...no one is being held accountable for their poor play because ownership wont allow the manager to do their job and play the players they want.

83-Steelers-43
06-21-2007, 12:12 PM
Sorry........very, very, very rarely work.

SteelCityMan786
06-21-2007, 01:27 PM
Sorry........very, very, very rarely work.

Don't worry about it bro. I just hope it works with the Pirates and they use force.

Actualy that is the big debate here now. Since the fired Perlozzo who I feel was a good manager a lot of people are saying that they dont have any players. Their farm system is in shambles and they are just an all around terrible franchise. The O's ownder, Peter Angelos, is comparable to the Pirates ownership. The Pirates and the O's are very similar teams...amazing ball parks...terrible teams. The players here just dont care...thats half the problem here and in Pittsburgh...no one is being held accountable for their poor play because ownership wont allow the manager to do their job and play the players they want.

That's for sure. The Orioles shining beacon though is in Bowie. Bowie has been a pretty darn good team. They do the things the Orioles don't.

Also, Angelos has been quoted saying he doesn't enjoy owning the team. It makes no sense to be in something that you don't enjoy.

83-Steelers-43
06-26-2007, 08:59 AM
Thank You Mr. Harris for this one......:nw:

Bucs fans to blame for losing ways

By John Harris
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, June 26, 2007

This is about the Pirates, that much-troubled Major League Baseball franchise, and their curious relationship with an incredibly loyal fan base.

According to general manager Dave Littlefield, the Pirates don't plan on making any trades as the July 31 deadline approaches. As if being 13 games under .500 isn't enough cause for panic.

At least pitcher Ian Snell -- one of the team's few bright spots in 2007 -- still cared enough to call out teammates following another Pirates meltdown. Beware when the players stop caring enough to complain.

Fourteen consecutive losing seasons -- and counting.

It's taken a lot of hard work from a lot of people for the Pirates to be this bad for this long, from ownership to management to the players and coaches -- right on down to the ticket-buying public.

Take a well-deserved bow, Pirates fan.

Blame principal owner Bob Nutting, if you must. Just make sure to spell his name correctly.

Truth be told, Pirates fan, boycott or no boycott, walkout or no walkout, none of this would be possible without your help.

That's right, you, sitting in Section 22 behind the home dugout, stuffing your face with hot dogs and wearing Pirates paraphernalia. You've earned this baseball beatdown, so enjoy.

And you, down the right-field line in Section 107 wearing a glove in hopes of catching a souvenir. Doesn't it make you feel warm inside to know your financial contributions have contributed to the Pirates becoming a national laughingstock?

Face it, Pirates fan. You're drawn to the Pirates, to baseball, to sports, like a moth to a flame, like Mike Tyson to a police blotter.

It's in your DNA, and you're all but powerless to resist.

Nutting is counting on your continued support -- your hard-earned money -- the way he needs air to breathe.

Nutting thrives on the blind faith of fans. All team owners do.

It enables them to push for the use of your tax dollars to build new stadiums replete with luxury suites that deposit millions of dollars into their bank accounts years in advance.

It encourages them to depreciate their players like pieces of broken-down furniture for tax purposes, then cry poverty when fans and media demand they spend more money.

Ownership couldn't care less about your pain, Pirates fan.

It isn't like the Pirates are so embarrassed by this year's fiasco that it shames them to cease and desist from toeing such a fine financial line.

It all boils down to how badly the Pirates want to win.

Not badly enough.

Ownership already has PNC Park -- a veritable cash cow that allows the worst team in baseball over the past decade to continue spinning straw into gold.

If Nutting won't lift a finger to improve the on-field product, why should you?

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_514378.html

SteelCityMan786
06-26-2007, 10:35 AM
I just hope their is a thing such as an eminent domain power for the commissioner and he uses it on the Nuttings that way we can find new ownership.

83-Steelers-43
06-26-2007, 10:50 AM
I just hope their is a thing such as an eminent domain power for the commissioner and he uses it on the Nuttings that way we can find new ownership.

Hate to be negative, but IMO, the commissioner doesn't give a damn. All he cares about is keeping the Steinbrenner's of MLB happy and content. As long as the Pirates are making money that's all that matters. People keep attending, they keep making money. Nothing will be done.

fansince'76
06-26-2007, 10:58 AM
The issue I have with the article is that it basically suggests a losing proposition to the fans that support the team by withdrawing their support. Since Nutting doesn't care, doesn't it stand to reason that he'll sell the team to the highest bidder (who will probably move the team lock, stock and barrel) if the team starts losing money? Either way, the Pirates' fans get screwed.

83-Steelers-43
06-26-2007, 11:05 AM
The issue I have with the article is that it basically suggests a losing proposition to the fans that support the team by withdrawing their support. Since Nutting doesn't care, doesn't it stand to reason that he'll sell the team to the highest bidder (who will probably move the team lock, stock and barrel) if the team starts losing money? Either way, the Pirates' fans get screwed.

IMO, any owner who buys this team and knows the first thing about baseball and business knows that Pirate fans will support a losing team for a certain length of time. If the 'new' owner looks at the record of 15 straight pathetic seasons I think they will understand why people are no longer spending their hard earned cash. That's not to mention that the new ownership group would already have one of the nicest ball parks in MLB already in place. That's huge in this day and age and it's one less worry for the buyer.

There is money to be made in this city if you prove to the fans that you want to win and start proving it for once. Personally, I can't name one other city which does not have a MLB team in place in this country where a baseball owner would make more money than in this city and in that ball park. It would be a horrible business decision in my opinion.

Fans can either keep pumping money into Nutting's/McClatchy's pockets and continue losing year after year or they can stop attending, force them to sell to an ownership who actually cares and realizes the amount of money that can be made in this city when it comes to Pirate baseball. But once again, as long as they are making money they don't care nor will they sell. Why would they?

fansince'76
06-26-2007, 11:10 AM
IMO, any owner who buys this team and knows the first thing about baseball knows that Pirate fans will support a losing team for a certain length of time. If the 'new' owner looks at the record of 15 straight pathetic seasons I think he will understand. That's not to mention that he will already have one of the nicest ball parks in MLB already in place. That's huge in this day and age.

There is money to be made in this city if you prove to the fans that you want to win and start proving it for once. Personally, I can't name one other city which does not have a MLB team in place in this country where a baseball owner would make more money than in this city and in that ball park. It would be a horrible business decision in my opinion.

Fans can either keep pumping money into Nutting's/McClatchy's pockets and continue losing year after year or they can stop attending, force them to sell to an ownership who actually cares and realizes the amount of money that can be made in this city when it comes to Pirate baseball.

Thanks 83, it's helpful to get input from folks who still live in the 'Burgh. As I haven't lived in the 'Burgh for years and am not the biggest baseball fan anyway, I'm not as familiar with the possible financial repercussions of a change in ownership on the Pirates - from what you say, it would be a mistake to move the team by any prospective future buyer(s). That's good to know.

SteelCityMan786
06-26-2007, 11:11 AM
Hate to be negative, but IMO, the commissioner doesn't give a damn. All he cares about is keeping the Steinbrenner's of MLB happy and content. As long as the Pirates are making money that's all that matters. People keep attending, they keep making money. Nothing will be done.

2009, he's going to be OUT OF HERE! Last I checked he's supposed to be retiring. Maybe then we can get a commissioner worried about ALL 30 teams not just 2.

83-Steelers-43
06-26-2007, 11:16 AM
Thanks 83, it's helpful to get input from folks who still live in the 'Burgh. As I haven't lived in the 'Burgh for years and am not the biggest baseball fan anyway, I'm not as familiar with the possible financial repercussions of a change in ownership on the Pirates - from what you say, it would be a mistake to move the team by any prospective future buyer(s). That's good to know.

That's just my opinion fansince'76. I just have a very hard time figuring out another city in this country where a potential buyer would make more money than in this city with the best ball park in MLB already in place. Any future buyer can see that people were still showing up over these past 14 years of pathetic baseball. The comfort of knowing attendance will go up if things are turned around to the slightest degree should be evident and obvious for any smart businessman.

Just my two cents.

SteelCityMan786
06-26-2007, 11:18 AM
That's just my opinion fansince'76. I just have a very hard time figuring out another city in this country where a potential buyer would make more money than in this city with the best ball park in MLB already in place. Any future buyer can see that people were still showing up over these past 14 years of pathetic baseball. The comfort of knowing attendance will go up if things are turned around in the slightest should be evident and obvious for any smart businessman.

I also have a hard time figuring this out.

But also, I feel it's because Nutting is too stubborn to SELL the team. No new owner of this team would have trouble having SOLD OUT crowds once they get things going right.

83-Steelers-43
06-26-2007, 11:26 AM
But also, I feel it's because Nutting is too stubborn to SELL the team.

McClatchy stated on a number of occasions last season that they have no plans of selling this team and once again, why would they? They shoot a few rockets in the air and people sell out the ball park. They hand out a few bobbleheads and people line up from Federal Street to Grant Street. They have been making money over the years, ripping off the fans in this city and they were not taking hardly any heat from the fans or the media. That's now starting to change to a degree and for now. Attendance this year has dropped to 27th or 28th worst in the league and the media has been grilling them for the last two weeks straight.

Hopefully change is in the near future but I doubt it. As long as people keep attending and are drawn to fireworks and bobbleheads like Nicole Ricci is to a toilet bowl after easting a corn flake I don't see anything changing.

SteelCityMan786
06-26-2007, 11:37 AM
McClatchy stated on a number of occasions last season that they have no plans of selling this team and once again, why would they? They shoot a few rockets in the air and people sell out the ball park. They hand out a few bobbleheads and people line up from Federal Street to Grant Street. They have been making money over the years, ripping off the fans in this city and they were not taking hardly any heat from the fans or the media. That's now starting to change to a degree and for now. Attendance this year has dropped to 27th or 28th worst in the league and the media has been grilling them for the last two weeks straight.

Hopefully change is in the near future but I doubt it. As long as people keep attending and are drawn to fireworks and bobbleheads like Nicole Ricci is to a toilet bowl after easting a corn flake I don't see anything changing.

I can NOT blame you for saying this. I have been those on the bandwagon pushing for Mark Cuban to buy the team. McClatchy doesn't want to sell, and unfortunately to our misery, it's probably going to be just that. He will not sell under any circumstances.

Edman
06-26-2007, 11:53 AM
Thank You Mr. Harris for this one......:nw:

Bucs fans to blame for losing ways

By John Harris
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, June 26, 2007

This is about the Pirates, that much-troubled Major League Baseball franchise, and their curious relationship with an incredibly loyal fan base.

According to general manager Dave Littlefield, the Pirates don't plan on making any trades as the July 31 deadline approaches. As if being 13 games under .500 isn't enough cause for panic.

At least pitcher Ian Snell -- one of the team's few bright spots in 2007 -- still cared enough to call out teammates following another Pirates meltdown. Beware when the players stop caring enough to complain.

Fourteen consecutive losing seasons -- and counting.

It's taken a lot of hard work from a lot of people for the Pirates to be this bad for this long, from ownership to management to the players and coaches -- right on down to the ticket-buying public.

Take a well-deserved bow, Pirates fan.

Blame principal owner Bob Nutting, if you must. Just make sure to spell his name correctly.

Truth be told, Pirates fan, boycott or no boycott, walkout or no walkout, none of this would be possible without your help.

That's right, you, sitting in Section 22 behind the home dugout, stuffing your face with hot dogs and wearing Pirates paraphernalia. You've earned this baseball beatdown, so enjoy.

And you, down the right-field line in Section 107 wearing a glove in hopes of catching a souvenir. Doesn't it make you feel warm inside to know your financial contributions have contributed to the Pirates becoming a national laughingstock?

Face it, Pirates fan. You're drawn to the Pirates, to baseball, to sports, like a moth to a flame, like Mike Tyson to a police blotter.

It's in your DNA, and you're all but powerless to resist.

Nutting is counting on your continued support -- your hard-earned money -- the way he needs air to breathe.

Nutting thrives on the blind faith of fans. All team owners do.

It enables them to push for the use of your tax dollars to build new stadiums replete with luxury suites that deposit millions of dollars into their bank accounts years in advance.

It encourages them to depreciate their players like pieces of broken-down furniture for tax purposes, then cry poverty when fans and media demand they spend more money.

Ownership couldn't care less about your pain, Pirates fan.

It isn't like the Pirates are so embarrassed by this year's fiasco that it shames them to cease and desist from toeing such a fine financial line.

It all boils down to how badly the Pirates want to win.

Not badly enough.

Ownership already has PNC Park -- a veritable cash cow that allows the worst team in baseball over the past decade to continue spinning straw into gold.

If Nutting won't lift a finger to improve the on-field product, why should you?

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_514378.html

While this this is sad, it's true and I'm not surprised. The ownership doesn't give a damn, why should the fans? Do what I do. Stop going to the freaking games. Or better yet, don't go to any Pirates game at all.

I recieved two Pirates tickets last year. When I couldn't sell them, I tore them up. I'm not wasting my money to see losing baseball on a hot summer day just to have "the experience". I'll watch something else.

83-Steelers-43
06-26-2007, 11:55 AM
I can NOT blame you for saying this. I have been those on the bandwagon pushing for Mark Cuban to buy the team. McClatchy doesn't want to sell, and unfortunately to our misery, it's probably going to be just that. He will not sell under any circumstances.

I'm not the biggest fan of Cuban, but if he's truly willing to buy this team (which he stated on a number of occasions he would be willing to do) then I would have no problem with it at all. Although at times, I get the impression that Cuban just likes to hear himself talk and get some press.

IF he's serious on buying this team there's one potential buyer who will keep this team in this city.

rbryan
06-26-2007, 11:56 AM
As long as they can make 15-20 million a year to play the role of the Washington Generals to the Harlem Globetrotters of MLB, nothing is going to change.

These guys are businessmen not baseball men. $15-20 million a year is pretty good money for any business in the Burgh. They've already proven they can make that kind of money whether the fans show up or not. Baseball has become a joke in this town. I refuse to watch anymore.

As long as the owners of these small market teams are content to make $ without winning, there will never be a salary cap in baseball.

SteelCityMan786
06-26-2007, 11:59 AM
As long as they can make 15-20 million a year to play the role of the Washington Generals to the Harlem Globetrotters of MLB, nothing is going to change.

These guys are businessmen not baseball men. $15-20 million a year is pretty good money for any business in the Burgh. They've already proven they can make that kind of money whether the fans show up or not. Baseball has become a joke in this town. I refuse to watch anymore.

As long as the owners of these small market teams are content to make $ without winning, there will never be a salary cap in baseball.

And there absolutely needs to be a Salary Cap.

Also, Minor League Baseball teams are signed and placed on the Major League Team's Payroll. Which also I don't get why.

Crushzilla
06-26-2007, 04:27 PM
Ok. I have a HUGE problem with this thread.

And there absolutely needs to be a Salary Cap.

Also, Minor League Baseball teams are signed and placed on the Major League Team's Payroll. Which also I don't get why.

Let me start here. There isn't. The words baseball and salary cap should only be involved in the sentence "Baseball has no salary cap." So baseball fans should EXPECT things like the Yankees. I love the Pirates. No matter what.

Now to ALLLLLLL Pro-boycott people out there.

Are you listening to how stupid what you are saying is.

First of all, the IMPOSSIBILITY of a boycott. You have all said yourselves how unlikely it is. Then you slam people FOR GOING TO GAMES. Shame on you. You are going to slam people for going to Pirate games? Can you not see the fireworks from outside the stadium? So saying that people are JUST going for the fireworks. Ok...

As you may notice. I am anti-boycott. I am so anti-boycott this is the last thing I will say about it. (After, of course, I respond to the inevitable blasting I will receive for this.)

Do I have blind faith? Because I go to Pirate games? NO! Break what you are saying into common sense? What are you talking about?

Let me get this straight? The Pirates are only worth a damn when they are winning?

Who we have is who we have. Would I like new ownership? Sure. It would be nice to see them perform a little better. But, THIS IS WHAT THE PIRATES ARE. What the hell happened to the love of the game.

Baseball is an experience. Did you ever hear that phrase "for the love of the game?" I was born into the Pirates and I will stay with the Pirates as long as they are in the city.

Best case scenario with a boycott? They move the team. Then we have no Pirates, because some people couldn't deal with the Pirates not being the Red Sox or the Yankees.

This is what they are. The Pirates are a low salary team that develops players then ships them off to better teams where they become super stars.

Maybe I'm crazy. But I'd rather see some kids take their knocks in the MLB and play THE GAME, than watch GROSSLY OVERPAYED DIVAS earn absurd salaries to perform at an average level.

Oh and I read John Harris' article during my lunch break today. :upyours:
You may want to reword your title, jackass. So, me... And I am a TRUE fan... am to blame for your misery and greed. The Pirates aren't a white hot francise... I am to blame... I guess its only fun to write about teams who crush the competition. To avoid trouble... I will not type what I was about to...

The Steelers have spoiled this city with their success. :smile:

The Pirates probably aren't going to win a World Series any time soon... Boycott or not.

Don't like it?

Move to Boston.

rbryan
06-26-2007, 04:51 PM
I think thats great that you're still a Pirate fan. You're a better man than me if you can stomach watching. My problem doesn't lie with the Pirates, it lies with MLB. If it were an even playing field and the team still sucked then you can call out people for being fair weather fans.

I don't don't advocate boycotting just the Pirates, to me its a matter of not supporting MLB as a whole until they do whats right. It's my way of dealing with the way things are. Is it going to change anything? Probably not.

I grew up here in the 60's and 70's. I remember when the Pirates out drew the Steelers by a long shot. It's sad.

83-Steelers-43
06-26-2007, 04:54 PM
First of all, the IMPOSSIBILITY of a boycott. You have all said yourselves how unlikely it is.

I said walking out during a game and protesting will probably not work. Although I do feel not attending all together will.

Then you slam people FOR GOING TO GAMES. Shame on you.

I don't care if people want to waste their money on a piece of shit product. Just don't come home after that game and complain about how bad they suck and how you want new ownership. If your dumb enough to attend those games night after night and give your money to McClatchy and Nutting, you deserve a bad team. Shame on you for making an assumption instead of asking questions before you open your mouth.

Can you not see the fireworks from outside the stadium? So saying that people are JUST going for the fireworks. Ok...

Besides the point. There's a reason why they sell out during every firework night. I doubt it's because of the fantastic display of MLB the Pirates have put on for the last 15 years. Give me a break.

(After, of course, I respond to the inevitable blasting I will receive for this.)

Well, when you tell people "shame on you" after making your assumptions you damn well better believe it.

The Pirates are only worth a damn when they are winning?

Not at all. If I only kept my season tickets and supported teams when they were good I would have dropped my Penguin season tickets four years ago and my Steeler season tickets back in the early 80's. It's the fact that this Pirate team has been bad for so long and the future is not looking much better. The ownership group has proven time and time again that they don't give a flying shit about me so why should I care about them? It's been 15 years man and it's not looking up. What do you expect people to do?

What the hell happened to the love of the game.

I still do love the game. I just don't love the game enough to take it up the *** from ownership every night and give them my hard earned cash. Sorry.

Best case scenario with a boycott? They move the team. Then we have no Pirates, because some people couldn't deal with the Pirates not being the Red Sox or the Yankees.

Personally, I don't expect to be the Yankees or Red Sox. But I do expect a better product than I have seen over the past 15 years. This is the most pathetic sports franchise in all of sports. Sorry for expecting more out of my team.

The Steelers have spoiled this city with their success. :smile:

The Steelers have nothing to do with this nor do the Penguins. The Pirates put themselves in this hole and deserve all the heat they are taking.

Move to Boston.

My tax dollars helped pay for that ball park. Ownership promised a better product. If anybody should be moving it should be Nutting and McClatchy. But why would they? They have suckers walking inside PNC park night after night like zombies buying into the B.S. they spew year after year after year.

83-Steelers-43
06-26-2007, 05:13 PM
I'm not exactly sure what some people expect other's to do. You think a guy with a family of three or four wants to give his money to an ownership group who has proven time and time again that they don't give a damn about their fans? That's not a cheap night out on the town.

We are talking about the Pirates here. The biggest joke in all of sport. I'm not expecting them to win a World Series anytime in the near future. I'm not expecting them to make a playoff push. But I am expecting them to crack .500 for the first time in 15 years. I know, I know, that's so much to ask for from somebody who's tax dollars helped pay for that ball park with the promise that they will put out a better product. I know, how greedy of me. I'm just spoiled, that's all. I don't know what in the hell I'm thinking. I should just put on my Nutting and McClatchy sunglasses and buy their B.S. propoganda.

Bottomline: When you have a team that has been this bad for this long and there is no end in site, you damn well better believe people will stop attending. Fireworks, bobbleheads, the view, "the love of the game" and the beauty of the park can only sucker most people in for so long before they finally say "ENOUGH". Keep watching that attendance drop. That's all it's doing. Apparently I'm not the only who's finally fed up.

83-Steelers-43
06-26-2007, 05:20 PM
Oh by the way. For those who are worried about the Pirates leaving if they sell to a new owner. The Pirates are locked with a 30 year lease on that ball park. They wouldn't move.

Crushzilla
06-26-2007, 05:22 PM
The bottom line is this:

The issue I have with the article is that it basically suggests a losing proposition to the fans that support the team by withdrawing their support. Since Nutting doesn't care, doesn't it stand to reason that he'll sell the team to the highest bidder (who will probably move the team lock, stock and barrel) if the team starts losing money? Either way, the Pirates' fans get screwed.

So, people like me are attacked CONSTANTLY by the pro-boycott side.

Now with all this noise about the 30th. A protest? So people who DO go to that game are going to be harassed by people who think they shouldn't be there?

So the outside of PNC Park is going to look like an abortion clinic? GREAT idea.

BTW, 83-43, I am not after you directly. There are people out there thirsting for blood over the Pirates.

Here it is. In the beginning of this fall from grace:
People wanted to blame the players first. Didn't work.
Recently, People want to blame the management. They don't give a shit.
Now, Its the fans who go to the games fault. Bullshit.

Why does someone have to be to blame? Its the nature of the beast.

Then you slam people FOR GOING TO GAMES. Shame on you.

What I mean by this is, break down what the general pro-boycott is saying (because once again this wasn't aimed at you directly so I will kept it directed at a group). People that go to games are to blame?

Now. To answer some of your questions 83, or better yet, assaults/

Shame on you for making an assumption instead of asking questions before you open your mouth.

What question do you want me to ask you? I already know how you feel about the issue.

Besides the point. There's a reason why they sell out during every firework night. I doubt it's because of the fantastic display of MLB the Pirates have put on for the last 15 years. Give me a break.

So you don't know people who ENJOY going to PNC Park. F*ck ya they go for the fireworks, too. People go to baseball games for a number of reasons. And don't even say towels and bobbleheads. If you think people go to Pirate games and pay for a ticket so they can get a bobblehead then I have been giving you WAY too much credit over the past few months, man.

My tax dollars helped pay for that ball park. Ownership promised a better product. If anybody should be moving it should be Nutting and McClatchy. But why would they? They have suckers walking inside PNC park night after night like zombies buying into the B.S. they spew year after year after year.

I'm a Zombie, then, and know nothing about baseball. Who needs it. I have this sweet Paulino bobblehead :smile: (just playin)

Crushzilla
06-26-2007, 05:24 PM
Oh by the way. For those who are worried about the Pirates leaving if they sell to a new owner. The Pirates are locked with a 30 year lease on that ball park. They wouldn't move.

See this is the stuff I'm looking for. Thank you

83-Steelers-43
06-26-2007, 05:28 PM
See this is the stuff I'm looking for. Thank you

No problem man. Just another reason for those who are worried about this team leaving town if they don't bend over for McClatchy and Nutting not to attend if they don't want. Instead, just wait for a new ownership group who actually gives a damn and give your hard earned cash to them and actually witness a MLB team instead of a AAA baseball team.

Just giving those folks a heads up. Pretty cool huh? I know, I know....shame on me.

fansince'76
06-26-2007, 05:34 PM
Oh by the way. For those who are worried about the Pirates leaving if they sell to a new owner. The Pirates are locked with a 30 year lease on that ball park. They wouldn't move.

Good to know, and was my main concern when I heard rumblings about ownership change. :thumbsup:

83-Steelers-43
06-26-2007, 05:35 PM
So you don't know people who ENJOY going to PNC Park. F*ck ya they go for the fireworks, too. People go to baseball games for a number of reasons. And don't even say towels and bobbleheads. If you think people go to Pirate games and pay for a ticket so they can get a bobblehead then I have been giving you WAY too much credit over the past few months, man.

I'll try this one more time....

There's a reason why games are sold out during firework and bobblehead night. Those people are not attending those games in order to see great baseball. Since there are so many reasons why people attend baseball games I wonder why they are not sold out every home game? I wonder why attendance has dropped to 27th or 28th worst in the league?

Apparently those supposed "many reasons" are running very, very low.

SteelCityMan786
06-26-2007, 05:37 PM
I'll try this one more time....

There's a reason why games are sold out during firework and bobblehead night. Those people are not attending those games in order to see great baseball. Since there are so many reasons why people attend baseball games I wonder why they are not sold out every home game? I wonder why attendance has dropped to 27th or 28th worst in the league?

Apparently those supposed "many reasons" are running very, very low.

Sometimes the Size of the Ballpark can give you good reason for that.

fansince'76
06-26-2007, 05:39 PM
There's a reason why games are sold out during firework and bobblehead night. Those people are not attending those games in order to see great baseball. Since there are so many reasons why people attend baseball games I wonder why they are not sold out every home game? I wonder why attendance has dropped to 27th or 28th worst in the league?

Apparently those supposed "many reasons" are running very, very low.

Ya mean they don't come for this?:

XZC1jiwKMHc&eurl=

:chuckle:

83-Steelers-43
06-26-2007, 05:42 PM
Ya mean they don't come for this?:

XZC1jiwKMHc&eurl=

:chuckle:

lol, ya know. I thought it was cheesy, but then I got to thinking. That has to be the most creative thing to come out of that organization over the last 15 years. I commend them. Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

SteelCityMan786
06-26-2007, 05:44 PM
Ya mean they don't come for this?:

XZC1jiwKMHc&eurl=

:chuckle:

Add that to the list.

I go to see good baseball, AND get a chance to see former players from my local Double-A Baseball team play for the Pirates. (The Altoona Curve)

83-Steelers-43
07-13-2007, 12:32 PM
I have been those on the bandwagon pushing for Mark Cuban to buy the team.

Speaking of Cuban: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07194/801477-100.stm

He wants to buy the Cubs.

SteelCityMan786
07-13-2007, 12:36 PM
Speaking of Cuban: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07194/801477-100.stm

He wants to buy the Cubs.

That's because the Nuttings are too stubborn to sell.

section514
07-13-2007, 12:44 PM
what is the pirates listed value? cuban could afford it and the nuttings can go back to seven springs. if cuban would put up $600 million, he can surely afford the pirates. we need a CUBAN campaign started again

83-Steelers-43
07-13-2007, 12:45 PM
what is the pirates listed value? cuban could afford it and the nuttings can go back to seven springs. if cuban would put up $600 million, he can surely afford the pirates. we need a CUBAN campaign started again

It's not a question about if Cuban can afford them. It's about the Nutting's not willing to sell because they are still suckering/milking the fans in this city and making a very nice profit year afte year in the process. Cuban has stated time and time again that he would be more than willing to buy the Pirates, but the Nuttings do not want to sell.

Personally, I can't blame the Nuttings for not selling. Would you? Hell, all you have to do is wave a few bobbleheads in the air, shoot off a few fireworks and people show up and you make a profit. As long as he has that steady cash flow and makes a profit at the end of the year he will not sell.