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SteelersMongol
06-21-2007, 11:28 PM
Boys treated as eldest do better on IQ tests
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Boys at the top of the pecking order -- either by birth or because their older siblings died -- score higher on IQ tests than their younger brothers.

The question of whether firstborn and only children are really smarter than those who come along later has been hotly debated for more than a century.

Norwegian researchers now report that it isn't a matter of being born first, but growing up the senior child, that seems to result in the higher IQ scores.

Petter Kristensen and Tor Bjerkedal report their findings in Friday's issue of the journal Science.

It's a matter of what they call social rank in the family -- the highest scores were racked up by the senior boy -- the first born or, if the firstborn had died in infancy, the next oldest.

Kristensen, of Norway's National Institute of Occupational Health, and Bjerkedal, of the Norwegian Armed Forces Medical Services, studied the IQ test results of 241,310 Norwegian men drafted into the armed forces between 1967 and 1976. All were aged 18 or 19 at the time.

The average IQ of first-born men was 103.2, they found.

Second-born men averaged 101.2, but second-born men whose older sibling died in infancy scored 102.9.

And for third-borns, the average was 100.0. But if both older siblings died young, the third-born score rose to 102.6.

Social rank, not birth order

The findings provide "evidence that the relation between birth order and IQ score is dependent on the social rank in the family and not birth order as such," they concluded.

It's an issue that has perplexed people since at least 1874, when Sir Francis Galton reported that men in prominent positions tend to be firstborns more often than would have been statistically expected.

Since then, several studies have reported higher intelligence scores for firstborns, while other analyses have questioned those findings and the methodology of the reports.

While the Norwegian analysis focused on men, other studies have included women, some indicating a birth-order effect and some not.

Frank J. Sulloway of the Institute for Personality and Social Research at the University of California, Berkeley, welcomed what he called the Norwegians' "elegantly designed" analysis.

"These two researchers demonstrate that how study participants were raised, not how they were born, is what actually influences their IQs," said Sulloway, who was not part of the research team.

The elder child pulls ahead, he said, perhaps as a result of learning gained through the process of tutoring younger brothers and sisters.

The older child benefits by having to organize and express its thoughts to tutor youngsters, he said, while the later children may have no one to tutor.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/parenting/06/21/birth.order.ap/index.html

SteelersMongol
06-21-2007, 11:30 PM
So how many of the SF members are the eldest? :smile: Or maybe I should just ask how many of us are SMART? :wink02:

As for me I'm the second oldest. I wish it meant that I'm the second smart of all 4 boys, but I guess not. :coffee: My 2 younger brothers are not doing bad at all in school. :cheers:

tony hipchest
06-21-2007, 11:40 PM
im the eldest, and although my younger brother has a masters degree, im pretty sure i could beat him in the test. then again i was always in the "gifted program" throughout school, received academic scholorships, and more used to those kinds of tests.

vasteeler
06-22-2007, 10:37 AM
Im the second brother the only thing i have to offer is that i am a steelers fan and older brother is a browns fan enough said

lamberts-lost-tooth
06-22-2007, 01:12 PM
I am the 5th of 7 children....My Mother was extremely bright but only recieved her associates degree before starting a family...My second oldest brother is one of the brightest people I know, he never went to college but runs three businesses and is EXTREMELY successful. My sister tested high and never went to college...but was smart enough to marry an attorney. I have tested my I.Q. between 134 and 140....and I SUCK at math...(But if your playing trivial pursuit..I am the man for geography and social science)....My youngest brother never tested very high but is an electrical foreman..and very sucessful
....so I have always thought the tests were rather arbitrary.

The Duke
06-22-2007, 03:29 PM
I'm pretty sure my older brother is smarter than me.

HometownGal
06-22-2007, 08:23 PM
Hey SF Ladies - rejoice! The article above specifically states "boys" which means that we ladies are smarter than "you know who" :wink02: whether we're the eldest or the baby! :flap::wink02::cheers::jammin::banana:

GBMelBlount
06-22-2007, 08:41 PM
im the eldest, and although my younger brother has a masters degree, im pretty sure i could beat him in the test. then again i was always in the "gifted program" throughout school, received academic scholorships, and more used to those kinds of tests.

I am by fart the smrtest in my famuly. I thunk by my calcelations if I can increawse my Ique by 1 point per year I will be at 100 in only 20 years! That's an A+, right? Then I can go to collge in Oheo!

CantStop85
06-22-2007, 09:16 PM
I hate articles like this...I'm supposed to buy into this theory that was tested on 241,310 Norwegian men drafted into the armed forces between 1967 and 1976. Yeah, that's a wide demographic.

Anyway, I'm the youngest of 5 kids, but all my siblings are only half-siblings. And no offense to them, but there's no way any of them are smarter than me.

Hey, LLT, where did you take an IQ test at? I never really have, but have been curious as to what I'd score. The only kind of comparative test I've ever really taken was the ACT and I scored a 31 (high five for scholarship money).

GBMelBlount
06-22-2007, 09:29 PM
I hate articles like this...I'm supposed to buy into this theory that was tested on 241,310 Norwegian men drafted into the armed forces between 1967 and 1976. Yeah, that's a wide demographic.

Anyway, I'm the youngest of 5 kids, but all my siblings are only half-siblings. And no offense to them, but there's no way any of them are smarter than me.

Hey, LLT, where did you take an IQ test at? I never really have, but have been curious as to what I'd score. The only kind of comparative test I've ever really taken was the ACT and I scored a 31 (high five for scholarship money).

Not sure LLT can tell you, competition & comparison is really discouraged these days in academia. By the way, where the hell is my playstation 2!

tony hipchest
06-22-2007, 09:47 PM
Hey, LLT, where did you take an IQ test at? I never really have, but have been curious as to what I'd score. The only kind of comparative test I've ever really taken was the ACT and I scored a 31 (high five for scholarship money). youve probably taken one and just not realized it. its usually standard testing to gradeschool kids, but it varies state to state. youre from kentucky... remember when they gave you that copper tubing, a washbasin and some mash in the 3rd grade to see what you could do with it? :sofunny:

lol just messin. but really i think they look at the kids who do exceptionally well in the standard yearly testing, and then select them for further testing to put them in advanced placement/gifted/mensa type classes. then again i was schooled on military bases, which i believe is more standardized than typical schools in the community. (they taught us to read in kindergarten with some wierd experimental version of the alphabet, that contained upside down letter e's, and hybrid letters of 2 "sounds"merged together."

what is strange is i think a standard iq test is pretty much the same whether you are giving it to a 3rd grader or a 14 year old.

CantStop85
06-22-2007, 11:29 PM
youve probably taken one and just not realized it. its usually standard testing to gradeschool kids, but it varies state to state. youre from kentucky... remember when they gave you that copper tubing, a washbasin and some mash in the 3rd grade to see what you could do with it? :sofunny:

lol I think some of my classmates needed that exam. But, yeah I took standardized tests each year from 1st grade to senior year...of course they never really got much harder than a 6th-7th grade level to be honest.

lol just messin. but really i think they look at the kids who do exceptionally well in the standard yearly testing, and then select them for further testing to put them in advanced placement/gifted/mensa type classes.

I took around 6 AP classes in high school and they are the biggest rip-off ever. They're college-level courses, but if you pass them you don't automatically get college credit. You get to take the equivalent of a college final exam (probably harder) and have to basically ace it in order for your college to even consider the credit. The only advantage of them is you get a higher weighted GPA but no colleges look at weighted GPA, they only look at your unweighted GPA (which an AP class could potentially bring down even while increasing your weighted GPA). If I had to do it all over again, I would've enrolled in more actual college courses so I could receive credit based on the actual class and not just one test.

Anyway, now that I'm done with that rant...early in my middle school career, they put me in honors or advanced courses because of high grades in previous courses. In high school, however, honors and AP classes could be taken by anyone, assuming they had the necessary requisites. The only thing I ever got from scoring highly on standardized tests was membership in the Duke University Talent Identification Program, which made me take the ACT in 7th grade (which was a blast :dang:).

tony hipchest
06-23-2007, 01:45 PM
I took around 6 AP classes in high school and they are the biggest rip-off ever. They're college-level courses, but if you pass them you don't automatically get college credit. You get to take the equivalent of a college final exam (probably harder) and have to basically ace it in order for your college to even consider the credit. The only advantage of them is you get a higher weighted GPA but no colleges look at weighted GPA, they only look at your unweighted GPA (which an AP class could potentially bring down even while increasing your weighted GPA). If I had to do it all over again, I would've enrolled in more actual college courses so I could receive credit based on the actual class and not just one test.

Anyway, now that I'm done with that rant...early in my middle school career, they put me in honors or advanced courses because of high grades in previous courses. In high school, however, honors and AP classes could be taken by anyone, assuming they had the necessary requisites. The only thing I ever got from scoring highly on standardized tests was membership in the Duke University Talent Identification Program, which made me take the ACT in 7th grade (which was a blast :dang:).wow, major flashback. i had the exact same experience with all the AP courses. and like you said, its pretty much a rip off that i gained nothing from. i took 4 ap classes my senior year alone including chemistry and all it did was make my final year a bitch having to study all the time. my biggest regret is not taking classes such as biology, english, anatomy at the college and get high school credit for them. it coulda been the difference of getting a full paid scholorship over just tuition.

HometownGal
06-23-2007, 02:20 PM
Anyway, I'm the youngest of 5 kids, but all my siblings are only half-siblings. And no offense to them, but there's no way any of them are smarter than me.



Yes they are if they aren't Bungles fans. :wink02::flap:

GBMelBlount
06-23-2007, 10:13 PM
My wife has a 153 IQ. Combined we break 200! Our 7 year old daughter is an interpreter. Renee' explains everything to Faith. Then Faith puts it in terms I can understand, usually through pictures Faith draws 4 me. That helps me alot 2!

SteelCityMan786
06-23-2007, 10:15 PM
My wife has a 153 IQ. Combined we break 200! Our 7 year old daughter is an interpreter. Renne' explains everything to Faith. Then Faith puts it in terms I can understand. Sometimes Faith draws pictures 4 me. That helps me alot 2!

by how much do you break 200?

GBMelBlount
06-23-2007, 10:17 PM
asdfafafaffsfasfasf

GBMelBlount
06-23-2007, 10:20 PM
by how much do you break 200?


3 points on many days!