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Atlanta Dan
07-01-2007, 06:59 PM
NFL Network has been replaying broadcasts of classic NFL playoff games in their entirety.

This Thursday at 8-11 pm is the January 2003 Steelers-Browns game, which the Steelers won 36-33 in the last minute after being down 24-7.

Kendrell Bell had an awesome game on a bum ankle and Tommy Maddox had his last great game as a Steeler. Neither ever played as well again.

IMO this game & comeback is what prompted Cowher to ditch smash mouth ball control for the horrible 2003 season.

SteelCzar76
07-01-2007, 08:30 PM
NFL Network has been replaying broadcasts of classic NFL playoff games in their entirety.

This Thursday at 8-11 pm is the January 2003 Steelers-Browns game, which the Steelers won 36-33 in the last minute after being down 24-7.

Kendrell Bell had an awesome game on a bum ankle and Tommy Maddox had his last great game as a Steeler. Neither ever played as well again.

IMO this game & comeback is what prompted Cowher to ditch smash mouth ball control for the horrible 2003 season.


I remember that game well Dan. Tommy single almost singlehandedly kept us in that game. He was not only playing against the Clowns secondary,....but the Clowns in our own defensive backfield as well. LOL

I also remember not only Kendrell but the rest of the backers having a great game. (especially against the run)

But one thing that always sticks out to me about that game was what i felt was Gildon almost conceding defeat with his comments of,... "But you couldn't run on us though" to some Browns players. (or something very close to that effect)

Elvis
07-02-2007, 07:21 AM
NFL Network has been replaying broadcasts of classic NFL playoff games in their entirety.

This Thursday at 8-11 pm is the January 2003 Steelers-Browns game, which the Steelers won 36-33 in the last minute after being down 24-7.

Kendrell Bell had an awesome game on a bum ankle and Tommy Maddox had his last great game as a Steeler. Neither ever played as well again.

IMO this game & comeback is what prompted Cowher to ditch smash mouth ball control for the horrible 2003 season.
yeh..Dan, your right. Then look what happened to our team the very next season...not a good idea I dont think. Unless you bring in a west coast coach or something. I love the memories of this game, and it pretty much was Maddoxs' shining moment in the NFL. I love watching that wide open offensive games, they are fun to watch, but I dont want to depend on that to lead our team.

Newzfoxjr
07-02-2007, 07:51 AM
On the commercial advertising it, they showed the Browns and Raiders logos and said it was the Steelers. XD

Anyway, I faintly remember this game, as I wasn't into the NFL much back then...I really started getting obsessed with the NFL in the late 2003 season.

Black@Gold Forever32
07-02-2007, 09:44 AM
That play-off game is one of the best NFL games I have ever seen........That was a great comeback......Didn't Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala score the go ahead TD? Plus another huge play in that game was Northcut's drop on third down for the Brownies that would have gave the Browns a first down......Basically sealing the win for the Browns....Both secondaries were just a flat out joke in that game......

Big7BenHOF
07-02-2007, 11:30 AM
Too bad NFL Network screwed me over and moved to a different channel. I don't get to see it.

=[

Atlanta Dan
07-02-2007, 11:42 AM
Too bad NFL Network screwed me over and moved to a different channel. I don't get to see it.

=[

If NFL Network moved on your cable channel line-up I do not think that was the NFL's idea - the NFL and the cable companies are fighting over whether NFL Network gets carried on basic as opposed to an additonal fee tier of channels. The Big Ten is in the same fight with Comcast over a sports channel the Big Ten is launching.

fansince'76
07-02-2007, 11:52 AM
If NFL Network moved on your cable channel line-up I do not think that was the NFL's idea - the NFL and the cable companies are fighting over whether NFL Network gets carried on basic as opposed to an additonal fee tier of channels. The Big Ten is in the same fight with Comcast over a sports channel the Big Ten is launching.

Fight the power! Free NFL Network for everyone! :peace: :chuckle:

Edman
07-02-2007, 11:53 AM
Our Secondary was terrible in that game, then again, so was the Clowns'.

That was a spectacular game. We were down 24-7, the Browns fans were all taunting and chanting, high-fiving each other, and waving their foam fingers and stupid plastic bones, then poof.

That was Tommy Maddox's highest moment in Pittsburgh. Too bad it wouldn't last. Still, it was a very satisfying game. The Cleveland Browns suck, and always will suck.

:finger:<---Cleveland

rbryan
07-02-2007, 12:29 PM
I lost my voice over that game. My most lasting memory was how bad our secondary was. It seemed like anyone could beat them deep.

its4cooch
07-03-2007, 08:55 AM
If I am not mistaken, Bruce Arians was the OC for the Browns at that point. I am very much looking forward to re-watching that game to see his playcalling. Maybe it will give us a little insight into his game planning.

This is my first post, huge Steeler fan since the 70's.

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-03-2007, 09:11 AM
Here is a little flashback for everyone!!!


PITTSBURGH (Jan. 5, 2003) -- The Cleveland Browns have been haunted for 16 years by The Drive. Now they've got to live with The Comeback by the Pittsburgh Steelers .

Tommy Maddox, the Comeback Player of the Year , led one of Pittsburgh's greatest comebacks, throwing three touchdown passes in the final 19 minutes as the Steelers rallied from a 17-point deficit in the second half to stun the Browns 36-33 Sunday in an AFC wild-card game.

Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala's 3-yard touchdown run with 54 seconds left won it as the Steelers, coming off so many playoff disappointments at home under coach Bill Cowher, kept their postseason going with one of the franchise's most memorable victories.

"I don't think anybody in the building thought we weren't going to win," Browns quarterback Kelly Holcomb said. "I think everybody thought we were going to go on."

The Steelers denied the Browns their first road playoff victory since 1969, their first playoff win of any kind since returning to the NFL in 1999 and gave themselves a huge momentum lift going into Saturday's divisional round game at AFC second-seeded Tennessee.

The Jets, shutout winners Saturday over the Colts , now play Sunday at top-seeded Oakland -- no doubt after thinking for most of the afternoon they were going to Tennessee.

"I was already in Oakland," Browns receiver Kevin Johnson said, wistfully, referring to where Cleveland would have played.

Not even the Steelers of the '70s ever pulled off a comeback from a deficit like this mostly because they rarely fell behind like this. Even in the famed Immaculate Reception game, they trailed Oakland only 7-6 before Franco Harris' game-winning tipped pass scoring catch in 1972.

"It's one of those wins that you can't see happening, but you just keep hoping it will keep going the way it's going," Steelers coach Bill Cowher said of the frantic comeback.

For the Browns, it was an eerie flashback to John Elway's memorable 98-yard "The Drive" to beat the Browns for Denver in a 1987 playoff game.

The Steelers were shredded all afternoon by Holcomb, who threw for 429 yards and three touchdowns, and trailed 24-7 until Maddox's 6-yard touchdown pass to Plaxico Burress with 3:50 left in the third quarter.

"I can't say how many times I must have said, 'We've got time. We have time, so don't panic,'" offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey said. "I never felt there was a panic button pushed by anyone."

Except the Browns.


Antwaan Randle El's punt return for a TD put the Steelers on the board.
Their game-long inability to run the ball -- rookie star William Green ran 25 times for just 30 yards -- proved their undoing in a game they seemed to have locked up. It would have been their first playoff victory over their biggest rival, who also beat them in January 1995 in their only previous postseason matchup.

"This is going to hurt. This burns inside," Browns receiver Dennis Northcutt said. "It's going to be very hard to move on."

Unable to wind the clock down, the Browns were forced to throw on almost every down, and, once the Steelers' defense tightened up, that left Pittsburgh the time to come back.

Even after Pittsburgh's comeback began, the Browns had enough left to drive for Phil Dawson's 24-yard field goal and Holcomb's 22-yard touchdown pass to Andre Davis that made it 33-21 with 10:17 remaining.

The Steelers, who have lost four home playoff games under Cowher since 1992, including last year's AFC championship game to New England, didn't fold this time. It helped they rallied from 11 points down in the fourth quarter only last week to beat Baltimore 34-31.

The Browns forced Pittsburgh to punt once, but Maddox -- making his first playoff appearance since a few insignificant downs with Denver in 1992 -- led a 77-yard drive that ended with his 5-yard scoring pass to Hines Ward with 3:06 left, cutting the deficit to 33-28.

Still, the Browns -- who had already convinced thousands of Steelers fans to head for the exits -- needed only a first down or two to run it out and secure one of the sweetest victories in the franchise's history, new Browns or old.

"We came in here with the idea this was like a heavyweight prize fight, that you've got to knock them out because they're not going to quit," Browns coach Butch Davis said.

But Northcutt, who had made big play after big play with two scoring catches and a long punt return, couldn't hold onto a Holcomb throw on third-and-12 and the Browns punted.

"I just dropped it, plain and simple," Northcutt said. "It hurt standing on the sideline, knowing I could have secured the game."

Maddox, going 30-of-48 for 367 yards and overcoming two interceptions, then found Plaxico Burress for 24 yards, Hines Ward for 10, Burress again for 17 and Ward for 7. Fuamatu-Ma'afala, playing the power back role that Jerome Bettis usually plays when he's not hurting with a sore knee, then powered up the middle from the 3 with 54 seconds left, and the Steelers' sideline erupted.

The game ended with Holcomb's 16-yard completion to Andre King at the Steelers' 29 as the Browns couldn't get into range for a possible tying field goal.

Until Maddox took over, it was all Holcomb all the time in a remarkable performance by a quarterback starting only his fourth NFL game as Cleveland tried to win a road playoff game for the first time since 1969. Now, that winless streak has reached eight.

Holcomb, subbing for the injured Tim Couch, had no running game for support, not a single minute of playoff experience -- and no fear. Only Bernie Kosar, who threw for 489 yards in 1987 against Jets, has thrown for more yards in a Browns playoff game.

Holcomb, one of the most inexperienced quarterbacks to start an NFL playoff game, threaded completions of 83, 32, 29, 15 and 43 yards against the NFL's seventh-ranked defense but one weakened by injuries to cornerback Chad Scott and safety Mike Logan.

Holcomb set the tone on the third offensive play of the game, a third-and-14 from the Browns' 16, to find Kevin Johnson behind safety Brent Alexander for an 83-yard completion to the 1.

Green, coming off a 187-yard game against Atlanta, scored on the next play, one of his few positive-yardage runs of the day, and just like that, it was 7-0 Browns with only 1:16 gone.

Pittsburgh, troubled by turnovers all season, then turned it over three times in a span of 5? minutes, twice on Maddox-thrown interceptions by Daylon McCutcheon, but only rookie Antwaan Randle El's fumbled punt was turned into points.

Randle El, unwisely electing not to make a fair catch with Darnell Sanders bearing down on him, fumbled into Chris Akins' hands at his own 32. On the next play, Northcutt got behind Hank Poteat for a 32-yard scoring catch that made it 14-0.

With the Steelers desperately seeking something to get them back into the game, Randle El supplied it with a 66-yard punt return touchdown. But Cleveland answered with Dawson's 31-yard field goal off a soggy turf that was softened by a pregame snow shower.

steelersfanmx
07-03-2007, 11:53 AM
Nice reading!!!
thanks for posting this!
I can't wait to see this game on NFL network....:bouncy:

j-dawg
07-03-2007, 01:42 PM
man.. there's a broken desk chair somewhere in a california landfill as a direct result of that game.

i have to disagree with the article above though... that loss was no where near as upsetting as the other famed ones. it was a wildcard game, not an AFC championship game.

Sith Lord
07-03-2007, 07:33 PM
Reading this article put a smile on my face.....until I realized what happened the following week.

F'n Nedney. Did he win for best actor that year?

tony hipchest
07-05-2007, 07:08 PM
is anyone stressing out already watching this? i still cantbelieve we had everything going our way, 3rd and 14 and give up an 83 yd completion to start the game. :dang:

the pain never goes away, regardless knowing the outcome.

Atlanta Dan
07-05-2007, 07:48 PM
Browns 14-0 midway through the 2nd quarter and Tommy Gun just threw his second INT on a tipped ball after failing to read the D and throwing a goal line INT before that- I had forgotten he was the 2003 model of Maddox in the first half of this game.

And I also had forgotten how bad that secondary was (Hank Poteat; Lee Flowers, Dewayne Washington :dang:)

tony hipchest
07-05-2007, 07:57 PM
Browns 14-0 midway through the 2nd quarter and Tommy Gun just threw his second INT on a tipped ball after failing to read the D and throwing a goal line INT before that- I had forgotten he was the 2003 model of Maddox in the first half of this game.

And I also had forgotten how bad that secondary was (Hank Poteat; Lee Flowers, Dewayne Washington :dang:)
im i the only one who still gets goose bumps as randel el scoops the ball out of the mud and takes it to the house to atone for his mistake? :tt02:

hank poteat getting burnt twice for a td :dang: maddox and his 2 early int's :dang:

i swear im watching a game from the 06 season, where the steelers are dominating and just giving it away on stupid plays.

however ward making miracle catches (and even plex coming up big) is soothing. kendrell bell sure was dominant, and our whole front 7 were 3 feet up holcombs and greens ass. amazing game holcomb had.

oh, and 12 years in the league and gardocki has never had a punt blocked :rolleyes:

tony hipchest
07-05-2007, 08:05 PM
Tom Rouen????? :jawdrop:

:toofunny:

did anyone remember him and thats why we got gardocki? (im really learning to live w/ d. sepulveda.)

the browns did have a seviceable group of wr's (as bad as our secondary was). this is interesting to scout arians playcalling in this game considering our wr's are a bit better.

Atlanta Dan
07-05-2007, 08:40 PM
I will really be interested to see when this game turned (I was pretty drunk by the second half)

Steelers down 24-7, 8 minutes to go in 3rd Q and Browns driving with a roughing the QB penalty:dang:

tony hipchest
07-05-2007, 08:53 PM
I will really be interested to see when this game turned (I was pretty drunk by the second half)

Steelers down 24-7, 8 minutes to go in 3rd Q and Browns driving with a roughing the QB penalty:dang:lol.

like el "owing cowher 1" for the fumbled punt, logan came up big with the steelers 1st t.o. right after what was a ticky tac roughing call. holcomb snapping his head back was "nedneyesque"

geeze! (lee flowers on andre davis) great move by the steelers moving up to draft troy. still a little amazed logan still has a spot (for now)

Preacher
07-06-2007, 05:35 PM
Hey all...

I am watching the game on NFL network right now...

It is great to watch since this is the offseason...

man does the juices flow

tony hipchest
07-06-2007, 05:38 PM
come join us in the "official" thread. good stuff. the empty seats in the endzone with more than 3 minutes to go were a disgusting thing to see.

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=17700

Preacher
07-06-2007, 05:40 PM
Okay I have joined ya...

But I don't see anyone else posting about it during the game!!!

Two things quickly jump out here though. First, Lee Flowers could not tackle... Second, hindsight is 20/20... but maybe we should have held on to bell.

Preacher
07-06-2007, 05:42 PM
man.. there's a broken desk chair somewhere in a california landfill as a direct result of that game.

i have to disagree with the article above though... that loss was no where near as upsetting as the other famed ones. it was a wildcard game, not an AFC championship game.


LOL.. we have had a few of those types of games ourselves!

fansince'76
07-06-2007, 05:42 PM
Second, hindsight is 20/20... but maybe we should have held on to bell.

We need another sideline sweatsuit model now that Duce is gone. :chuckle:

Preacher
07-06-2007, 05:43 PM
We need another sideline sweatsuit model now that Duce is gone. :chuckle:

Your horrible!!
:wink02:

steelersfanmx
07-06-2007, 05:46 PM
I am at work right now!:crying02:
I tryed to watch yesterday at 11:00 PM (mexico's time)
but I was so tired that I felt sleep, I miss the last minutes of the game:banging:

tony hipchest
07-06-2007, 05:46 PM
lol. it aired for the 1st time yesterday. bell was expensive. it was him or ward (or many of our linemen (d & o) we had to chose from. we lost plex to and he had quite a game. bell was trully on fire though. hopefully 2nd round pick l. woodley is the next coming.

i always liked lee flowers as a mouth, but this game perfectly shows why we had to pass on larry johnson and trade up for polamalu.

maddox almost threw tha game away (for the 10th time) between 4 and 5 minutes to go. holcomb coulda easilly had 500 yds if seferal close wones werent properly ruled incomplete.

amazing that hank poteat has a sb ring as a patriot.

fansince'76
07-06-2007, 05:50 PM
i always liked lee flowers as a mouth, but this game perfectly shows why we had to pass on larry johnson and trade up for polamalu.

Calling the Bucs out as "paper champions" was funny as hell, but it's about all I remember him for - and of course he did that during the season that the Bucs finally did win the SB. :dang: :toofunny:

tony hipchest
07-06-2007, 06:04 PM
Calling the Bucs out as "paper champions" was funny as hell, but it's about all I remember him for - and of course he did that during the season that the Bucs finally did win the SB. :dang: :toofunny:come to think about it, that was the year this steelers/browns playoff game was played.

fatass warren sapp came out skipping through the steelers pre game warm ups with his helmet in his hand like the damn easter bunny. a big ol fight almost broke out (with joey as the enforcer of course) and the nfl changed the rules preventing one player from being on the other side of the opponents 50 yd line (another porter rule :chuckle:)

steelers kicked their ass that day just like we did to the eagles in 05. its a shame nedney prevented the steelers from facing oakland yet again in the afc champ game and sending a proper afc representative to the sb.

Preacher
07-06-2007, 06:04 PM
Man...

I know that we win this game... I also remember watching this game...

and I am STILL getting ticked off!!

Man... Maddox never really was that good was he? I think his receivers made him much better.

Preacher
07-06-2007, 06:08 PM
Man our DB's were horrible.

tony hipchest
07-06-2007, 06:13 PM
Man...

I know that we win this game... I also remember watching this game...

and I am STILL getting ticked off!!

Man... Maddox never really was that good was he? I think his receivers made him much better.that was the year tommy set the steelers ypg record and plexico had 230 something yds in the overtime tie to atlanta. im not sure but i think the following week in the playoffs vs. the titans maddox threw 2 early interceptions which cleared the way for his 2nd great playoff comeback in a row (led to an overtime loss). tommy seemed good at the comeback but it was often his early mistakes that put us in that position.

i think him and stewart were equally ineffective. stewart was explosive though and took us further, more times. atleast tommy had the benefit of a qb coach to learn from...Man our DB's were horrible.
they sucked. hard to believe poteat still has a job. i guess somebody had to tutor a young asanti samuel though and teach him what not to do.

Preacher
07-06-2007, 06:28 PM
that was the year tommy set the steelers ypg record and plexico had 230 something yds in the overtime tie to atlanta. im not sure but i think the following week in the playoffs vs. the titans maddox threw 2 early interceptions which cleared the way for his 2nd great playoff comeback in a row (led to an overtime loss). tommy seemed good at the comeback but it was often his early mistakes that put us in that position.

i think him and stewart were equally ineffective. stewart was explosive though and took us further, more times. atleast tommy had the benefit of a qb coach to learn from... they sucked. hard to believe poteat still has a job. i guess somebody had to tutor a young asanti samuel though and teach him what not to do.

LOL... Wrong thread!!!

Two more things I am learning from this game...

ARE was FAST... and so was Bell.

Preacher
07-06-2007, 06:29 PM
This is great...

I am getting in shape for the season... type dangit type.

tony hipchest
07-06-2007, 06:46 PM
LOL... Wrong thread!!!

Two more things I am learning from this game...

ARE was FAST... and so was Bell.yeah, well its not too often a team drafts defensive rookie MVP's and the offensive MVP's (big ben) so close together. however, do random poll and most people will say el is overrated and bell was a stiff. with steelerfans all the great things players do are often forgotten, and the what have you done for me lately is remembered. you would actually think players such as kordell, foster, ike, bam, hope, plex, flat out sucked. hell before odonnel flopped in the sb, even he proved to be a servicable qb.

Preacher
07-06-2007, 07:04 PM
yeah, well its not too often a team drafts defensive rookie MVP's and the offensive MVP's (big ben) so close together. however, do random poll and most people will say el is overrated and bell was a stiff. with steelerfans all the great things players do are often forgotten, and the what have you done for me lately is remembered. you would actually think players such as kordell, foster, ike, bam, hope, plex, flat out sucked. hell before odonnel flopped in the sb, even he proved to be a servicable qb.

Yep....

Though I noticed Maddox wasn't listed... The more I see him, even here... the more I realize that he really as horrible!

Atlanta Dan
07-07-2007, 08:32 AM
Having watched that game again, without being geeked up about watching it live as a playoff game, Maddox in that game was what he could be at his best: a proficient passer (after 5 years of Kordell that made him seem like a combination of Namath and Marino in their primes to Steeler fans) who had excellent receivers but who still tossed boneheaded INTs (the INT at the goal line on the skinny post to Ward) and other incomprehensible throws on a recurring basis.

As for Bell, he was a monster when healthy (or shot up to numb the pain in his ankle?) but was never the same after 2002. He lost his burst and/or enthusiasm for the game; after he spent most of 2004 recovering from various injuries, I had no problem with letting him go. It is not as if he has been the second coming of Lawrence Taylor with the Chiefs.

Agree with Preacher watching this game was a good tune to make me eager for training camp in 2 weeks and the Saints game on NFL Network Sunday night August 5.

vader29
07-07-2007, 02:38 PM
Would have loved to have seen this game again but don't have the NFL Network.

When this game was played I was recording it on my vhs recorder and in the 3rd quarter I got so disgusted that I stopped the recording and smashed up the tape and then when they came back at the end I said to myself "this would be a great game to have a recording of.":banging:

rbryan
07-07-2007, 04:33 PM
Bell was awsome back then. I always thought he got a raw deal from a lot of fans after he went down hill. Watching this game you realize that maybe he gave everything he had that day. That guy dealt out and sustained some serious damage during his short career here. I doubt most of us would ever walk again after the number of train wrecks he initiated. Injuries can make a guy look pretty average.

Preacher
07-07-2007, 06:44 PM
Yeah..

I was okay with Bell leaving.

However, watching this game, I just loved the way he played. I wish he was able to stay healthy

Crushzilla
07-09-2007, 05:14 PM
Well after watching his game last night, I missed the first few airings. I realized some stuff about our current situation.

Apparently Hines Ward led all receivers in rushing yards that year. We are really missing an extreme speed threat on this receiving core... I'm not entirely sure how fast Holmes is, however, because he didn't do the Combine.

Tuman had some solid plays. Maybe he is a more reasonable target than I thought (though I'm pretty sure its just a reflection on how good our WRs were that year).


Unrelated:

Maddox... yuck... He put some stuff together late, but starting him is like spotting the other guys points...

SteelCzar76
07-09-2007, 06:13 PM
If memory serves me correctly Tommy had an exceptional season that year in terms of passing. (Within the confines of our particular offensive coaching mentality) Even when he threw picks,..... his confidence and accuracy, ....along with his timing and the speed of his release that he brought from the Arena league always made one feel that he would come right back with a score.

Our secondary was the absoloute joke all year. The same joke that finally finished us in the second round in Tennesse.

As far as 'deep speed' or lack thereof within our current receiving corps,......Santonio runs in the high '4-3' range. Which IMO is more than exceptable. And with a little more experience the true measure of the value of this speed will become more evident.

Preacher
07-09-2007, 09:27 PM
If memory serves me correctly Tommy had an exceptional season that year in terms of passing. (Within the confines of our particular offensive coaching mentality) Even when he threw picks,..... his confidence and accuracy, ....along with his timing and the speed of his release that he brought from the Arena league always made one feel that he would come right back with a score.

Our secondary was the absoloute joke all year. The same joke that finally finished us in the second round in Tennesse.

As far as 'deep speed' or lack thereof within our current receiving corps,......Santonio runs in the high '4-3' range. Which IMO is more than exceptable. And with a little more experience the true measure of the value of this speed will become more evident.

Funny thing is... that is just the problem. I think we all thought the same thing. However, when you watch that game, he really reminded me of the Maddox that threw away those games in 05.

SteelCzar76
07-09-2007, 10:49 PM
Funny thing is... that is just the problem. I think we all thought the same thing. However, when you watch that game, he really reminded me of the Maddox that threw away those games in 05.

Yes he did,...resemble the Maddox whom threw away those games in 05. But the difference is back when he first stepped in,.....he would throw picks,...but yet still put up the points to win.

Yes turnovers are never excusable for any QB. Whether you throw ten or upwards of 20 in a season. LOL

And by no means am i annointing him (Tommy) as our past chosen one Padre. However,.... what i'm saying is simply that Tommy stepped in and gave us some much needed productivity in terms of the ability to score passing.

Was he "Great" ? No,.......but he was certainly an upgrade at the time over an inept Kordell Stewart. At least with Tommy (pre neck injury in the Titans game),......we had some semblance of hope at the QB position.

Was it a matter of "Spam tasting like Steak" to the starving ?(SteelerNation) Very much so,....at least for myself. But i still give the man credit for being something of the catalyst to finally end the debacle that was the "Stewart experiment".

Preacher
07-09-2007, 11:29 PM
Yes he did,...resemble the Maddox whom threw away those games in 05. But the difference is back when he first stepped in,.....he would throw picks,...but yet still put up the points to win.

Yes turnovers are never excusable for any QB. Whether you throw ten or upwards of 20 in a season. LOL

And by no means am i annointing him (Tommy) as our past chosen one Padre. However,.... what i'm saying is simply that Tommy stepped in and gave us some much needed productivity in terms of the ability to score passing.

Was he "Great" ? No,.......but he was certainly an upgrade at the time over an inept Kordell Stewart. At least with Tommy (pre neck injury in the Titans game),......we had some semblance of hope at the QB position.

Was it a matter of "Spam tasting like Steak" to the starving ?(SteelerNation) Very much so,....at least for myself. But i still give the man credit for being something of the catalyst to finally end the debacle that was the "Stewart experiment".

I think we are saying the same things... in different ways.

Except for one thing... To this day... I am not as down on Kordell as everyone else is. I still posit that a big part of Kordell's problem was Cowher's refusal to higher a QB coach, or give him a consistent O Coord.

SteelCzar76
07-10-2007, 06:47 AM
I think we are saying the same things... in different ways.

Except for one thing... To this day... I am not as down on Kordell as everyone else is. I still posit that a big part of Kordell's problem was Cowher's refusal to higher a QB coach, or give him a consistent O Coord.


I understand your perspective Padre in regards to 'Tinkerbell'. (Stewart) But,....i don't know,..i've always approached sports or anything else for that matter with a sense of accountability.

Meaning,.....ultimately the coaches are'nt out on the field,.......players are. Coaches don't consistently make poor decisions throwing the ball. They don't fumble. They don't meltdown under the pressure of "big games". They are not responsible for a player's lack of mental accumen required to read defenses. (Though they can try to "teach" them as much until their very heads spin)

And lastly they are not responsible for a players emotional instability,.....that's on God and genetics. LOL

rbryan
07-10-2007, 10:16 AM
Funny thing is... that is just the problem. I think we all thought the same thing. However, when you watch that game, he really reminded me of the Maddox that threw away those games in 05.

My thoughts exactly, even on his best day Maddox was a major liablilty. I don't know how we won any games with him at the helm.

SteelCzar76
07-10-2007, 11:22 AM
My thoughts exactly, even on his best day Maddox was a major liablilty. I don't know how we won any games with him at the helm.


The same way we win with any other "Game manager" at the position. Limit their attempts to very few high percentage throws. Control the clock with the ground game and play defense. (at least in the sense of making a few big plays and or stops 'here and there'.):coffee:

fansince'76
07-10-2007, 11:30 AM
Meaning,.....ultimately the coaches are'nt out on the field,.......players are. Coaches don't consistently make poor decisions throwing the ball. They don't fumble. They don't meltdown under the pressure of "big games". They are not responsible for a player's lack of mental accumen required to read defenses. (Though they can try to "teach" them as much until their very heads spin)


Coaches also aren't the ones that stare into a pass rush like a deer in the headlights instead of looking downfield. Coaches also aren't the ones who, when given sufficient time and an open receiver, either rocket the ball 6 feet over the receiver's head or one-hop the ball to them....

Preacher
07-10-2007, 12:37 PM
On Kordell...

Your both right...

However, coaches are the ones that demanded Kordell play in a scheme that he was not comfortable in. He was much more consistent on the run then in the pocket. Yet, they kept trying to make him a pocket passer, yet not give him anyone that could help him work through the mechanics... because they are different. Momentum, arm motion, etc. is different in the pocket then on the run. That is why, to this day, I still put a bunch of the blame on the coaching staff.

On the other side, you are absolutely right... Kordell's emotional instability was not a good thing, and can only be blamed on Kordell... though with the rumors circulating around about him like they were... I can't say I would completely be in my right mind as well.

SteelCzar76
07-10-2007, 08:05 PM
On Kordell...

Your both right...

However, coaches are the ones that demanded Kordell play in a scheme that he was not comfortable in. He was much more consistent on the run then in the pocket. Yet, they kept trying to make him a pocket passer, yet not give him anyone that could help him work through the mechanics... because they are different. Momentum, arm motion, etc. is different in the pocket then on the run. That is why, to this day, I still put a bunch of the blame on the coaching staff.

On the other side, you are absolutely right... Kordell's emotional instability was not a good thing, and can only be blamed on Kordell... though with the rumors circulating around about him like they were... I can't say I would completely be in my right mind as well.



But Padre,...my logic is as thus. To say that a guy can only be successful at quarterback by catering to his athleticism in terms of escapability or 'running' ability is to cripple them as players. And also should be taken as an insult.

The QB's job is to "play the position". Simply put,...throw the football well and lead his brothers on the field. Not to play tailback as well.

With that said,....just because one has great athletic ability but yet posseses "arm strength",...it doesn't neccessarily mean that they should be playing at the quarterback "POSITION".

As there is a great deal more required of it.


In regards to Kordell's emotional instabilty,...i meant in terms of his own publicly displayed weakness. In regards to "rumors",....what sensible person lends actual credance to mere words that very well may be motivated by someone else's personal "agenda",....and henceforth very likely to be false or at the least exceptionally twisted. ?

So imo i don't feel as though the "rumors" you speak of had as much impact upon him as many would believe.

Preacher
07-10-2007, 11:50 PM
But Padre,...my logic is as thus. To say that a guy can only be successful at quarterback by catering to his athleticism in terms of escapability or 'running' ability is to cripple them as players. And also should be taken as an insult.

The QB's job is to "play the position". Simply put,...throw the football well and lead his brothers on the field. Not to play tailback as well.

With that said,....just because one has great athletic ability but yet posseses "arm strength",...it doesn't neccessarily mean that they should be playing at the quarterback "POSITION".

As there is a great deal more required of it.


In regards to Kordell's emotional instabilty,...i meant in terms of his own publicly displayed weakness. In regards to "rumors",....what sensible person lends actual credance to mere words that very well may be motivated by someone else's personal "agenda",....and henceforth very likely to be false or at the least exceptionally twisted. ?

So imo i don't feel as though the "rumors" you speak of had as much impact upon him as many would believe.

It is amazing what damage rumors can do to one's psyche.

As far as QB is concerned...
There are two different type of QB's, pocket passers.. those who have to roll out to be successful.

Kordell wasn't a pocket passer... I agree he wasn't a natural QB... but if that is who the team wanted back there... then they needed to build to his strengths.

Preacher
07-10-2007, 11:57 PM
SC...

I wonder if you would agree with me on this though...

As slash... he had a heck of a future.

SteelCzar76
07-11-2007, 07:36 PM
SC...

I wonder if you would agree with me on this though...

As slash... he had a heck of a future.

Perhaps Padre. I cannot take anything away from him in regards to sheer ability as a 'football player". He was fast, strong, quick and gifed in terms of natural ability.

And could have very well flourished (IMO) had he been given the role that Antwann was to play years later. So yes, if that's what you mean,.....then i most certainly agree that he would have had an exceptional career.

But,..though it will never be admited as much publicly,....the organization knew that Kordell was not the answer in terms of being a pure QB. But at the time that he was given the job,.....as there were no other viable options from 'within'. (In terms of the organization's desire not to waste resources upon "free agents" whom they felt no more confident in than him)

Bottom line,...they gambled and took a loss. But the actual knowledge on their part that they were very likely to lose in terms of him being succesful was enough to let it "play out" until the bitter end. (You make a decision,....stand by it.)

But i digress. I think the bottom line is that we have not had an actual exceptional Qb since Bradshaw. (And he even had to deal with a great amount "drama" early on)

And as such,.... many of the "Family" (especially those whom have played the game) will focus upon the importance of value in terms of quality at the position.

Preacher
07-12-2007, 12:24 AM
Perhaps Padre. I cannot take anything away from him in regards to sheer ability as a 'football player". He was fast, strong, quick and gifed in terms of natural ability.

And could have very well flourished (IMO) had he been given the role that Antwann was to play years later. So yes, if that's what you mean,.....then i most certainly agree that he would have had an exceptional career.

But,..though it will never be admited as much publicly,....the organization knew that Kordell was not the answer in terms of being a pure QB. But at the time that he was given the job,.....as there were no other viable options from 'within'. (In terms of the organization's desire not to waste resources upon "free agents" whom they felt no more confident in than him)

Bottom line,...they gambled and took a loss. But the actual knowledge on their part that they were very likely to lose in terms of him being succesful was enough to let it "play out" until the bitter end. (You make a decision,....stand by it.)

But i digress. I think the bottom line is that we have not had an actual exceptional Qb since Bradshaw. (And he even had to deal with a great amount "drama" early on)

And as such,.... many of the "Family" (especially those whom have played the game) will focus upon the importance of value in terms of quality at the position.

I gotta agree....

Kittyfish
07-30-2007, 11:22 AM
I'm a little late to the game (heh) - I've been out of town and my computer died a horrible death just before I left, but I wanted to comment on a couple of things.

is anyone stressing out already watching this? i still cantbelieve we had everything going our way, 3rd and 14 and give up an 83 yd completion to start the game. :dang:

the pain never goes away, regardless knowing the outcome.Ain't that the truth! I find myself watching old games and cheering on the good plays and agonizing over the screw-ups just as much as I did the first time around. Crazy, isn't it? Knowing the outcome doesn't change my reactions in the least.

j-dawg said:
man.. there's a broken desk chair somewhere in a california landfill as a direct result of that game.
Hee! I remember watching the Steelers/Jaguars (it might have been /Ravens) game in 05. You know, the game that we almost had won several times (including overtime) but Tommy insisted on throwing away every opportunity that was given to him. Literally, as the final play was an interception that turned into a TD for the opposing team. I happened to by at my mother's house at the time, and was SO grateful she wasn't home. I think there's still a little blue cloud floating around her attic from all the cursing I did over that game. Sheesh!

Regarding Kordell - I could be wrong, but it seems as though several promising careers were cut short because someone insisted on being a quarterback, rather than another position that would have been a better fit. I'm glad that Hines and Antwaan had the sense to realize that, while they liked being a QB and had some talent at it, they were more effective in other positions and could still help out by throwing the ball every now and then. I was just saying to my husband the other day that Randle El's throwing a TD pass in the Super Bowl must have been the happiest moment of his career.

steelpride12
08-01-2007, 10:45 AM
After that came i literally could not speak my voice was dead ha!