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SteelersMongol
07-02-2007, 01:07 AM
One of the biggest offseason free-agent spending sprees still wasn't enough to eat up much of the NFL's available salary-cap space. As a result, the league could be in for another significant rise in player salaries this year and next.

Fourteen of the NFL's 32 teams have not used at least $10 million of the $109-million salary cap, according to figures from the NFL Players Association. And of those 14, seven have at least $15 million in cap space.

That means contracts for average players will continue to rise as they did at the start of free agency this year when offensive linemen such as Derrick Dockery and Eric Steinbach received deals that averaged $7 million a year.

"There's no way to eat up all the money that's out there this year," said one agent. "Teams are going to do everything they can to sign their young guys to long-term deals, but it still isn't going to be enough. When teams start to roll over money to next year, it's going to be unreal what some guys are going to get."

The Cleveland Browns lead the league with $22 million in available cap space followed by the Buffalo Bills ($21 million) and Minnesota Vikings ($20 million). The Jacksonville Jaguars, Kansas City Chiefs and Green Bay Packers each have at least $16 million, followed closely by the Tennessee Titans with $15.3 million.

The New York Jets, who are in the middle of a contract dispute with guard Pete Kendall over a $1 million raise, rounded out the group with $10 million in space. The San Francisco 49ers, who already have locked up starting running back Frank Gore to a contract extension and spent heavily on free-agent cornerback Nate Clements, just missed the $10-million club at $9.8 million.

The New England Patriots, who are in difficult negotiations with cornerback Asante Samuel over a long-term deal, have $8.4 million in cap space. The Patriots could actually increase to more than $10 million free if they agree to a long-term deal with Samuel, who counts for $7.8 million against the cap this season after being franchised in February.

Although teams have to account for unsigned draft picks (no first- or second-round picks have signed), that won't have an overwhelming impact on cap space. The average rookie cap for each team is only $4.27 million this season.

Likewise, teams generally average about $4 million in incentives and other bonus payments earned during a season.

In other words, even if the Buffalo Bills use all of their rookie cap money and their players earn around $5 million in bonuses, they would still have more than $12 million in cap space remaining and could roll that into their 2008 allowance.

As one NFLPA executive said: "I'd say it's going to be another good year for players next year."

To see the list, go to
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-caproom062907&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

SteelersMongol
07-02-2007, 01:10 AM
Who is to say the Rooneys are cheap now? This could explain Joey's let go, I think. Also, I thought the Patriots were pretty spendy, but maybe not.

Livinginthe past
07-02-2007, 07:22 AM
Who is to say the Rooneys are cheap now? This could explain Joey's let go, I think. Also, I thought the Patriots were pretty spendy, but maybe not.

You always have to look closer at what you are being told and who is telling you.

For a start, its an agent that is pimping the 'mountains of salary cap space' theory.

The story is pretty much the same as it always was : the successful teams still have to pick and choose who they want to re-sign (Patriots, Colts, Steelers) whereas the bottom feeders (49ers,Browns) often have a boat load of salary cap space to throw at an overpaid freeagent.

Even if everyone has more salary cap space it makes little difference to the overall equation - the struggling teams will always have the ability to outbid the successful teams for free agents or guys your team wants to re-sign.

The Patriots always leave some breathing room in their salary cap for the injury replacemens that have to be signed as the year goes along.

The Patriots have not actually been 'spendy' at all - its another media generated myth, just like the 'good character, average talent' motto that follows them around.

Moss has been signed for a 4th round draft pick and a cheap 1 year salary.

Adalius Thomas was a free agent and got paid well, but not as well as if he had chosen San Franciso as his new home.

Wes Welker cost a 2nd and 7th round draft pick, which some say is a heavy price - I disagree - he is signed to a very reasonable contract and hasn't dropped a ball so far in a Patriots uni.

Stallworth is another very affordable, incentive based contract, acquisition.

The Patriots have been aggresive this year - but certain circumstances have allowed them to get Stallworth and Moss on board at a much cheaper than expected price (they both want one good year with a successful team to negotiate a good contract next year).

What they haven't been is 'spendy'.

SteelersMongol
07-02-2007, 08:27 PM
Thanks, Pat's fan. :thumbsup:

Elvis
07-03-2007, 04:52 AM
:blah::jawdrop::toofunny:

Atlanta Dan
07-03-2007, 08:59 PM
In terms of how the $$$ have been spent, USA Today has its annual salary charts out

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-07-02-salaries_N.htm

Top 10 players for compensation received for 2006 were:

Richard Seymour New England $24,691,160
Drew Brees New Orleans $22,000,000
Bryant McKinnie Minnesota $17,500,000
Steve Hutchinson Minnesota $16,588,080
Jeff Backus Detroit $16,252,310
Tom Brady New England $16,004,840
Carson Palmer Cincinnati $15,750,000
John Abraham Atlanta $15,503,300
Shaun Alexander Seattle $15,125,000
Reggie Wayne Indianapolis $15,100,440

Highest paid Steelers were:

Marvel Smith $ 6,598,580
Hines Ward $ 5,753,080
Joey Porter $ 5,237,083

Lots of data if you have the time and interest to sort through it

tony hipchest
07-03-2007, 10:26 PM
In terms of how the $$$ have been spent, USA Today has its annual salary charts out

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-07-02-salaries_N.htm

Top 10 players for compensation received for 2006 were:

Richard Seymour New England $24,691,160
Drew Brees New Orleans $22,000,000
Bryant McKinnie Minnesota $17,500,000
Steve Hutchinson Minnesota $16,588,080
Jeff Backus Detroit $16,252,310
Tom Brady New England $16,004,840
Carson Palmer Cincinnati $15,750,000
John Abraham Atlanta $15,503,300
Shaun Alexander Seattle $15,125,000
Reggie Wayne Indianapolis $15,100,440

Highest paid Steelers were:

Marvel Smith $ 6,598,580
Hines Ward $ 5,753,080
Joey Porter $ 5,237,083

Lots of data if you have the time and interest to sort through itthanks for the link.

on the surface it looks like 2 patriot players are accounting for nearly 40% of the patriots total salary cap.

im sure thats what most players who score a 10 on their wonderlic test think and goes a long way in showing that the d. branch and a. samuel situation may only be the tip of the iceberg for the pats.

no matter how creative a team gets, thing always catches up. as has been shown throughout history, no team is bigger than the NFL.

when you dig deeper you see the patriots are pushing money into the future and relying on 1 year discount, character pickups and rookies to plug the holes.

a risky gamble, yet a calculated one.

on the steelers side, i dont see any risk of mortgaging the future. infact, with the way the salary cap is scheduled to rise theres a small chance we could even persue deangello hall after 08, if such desperate measures were needed (i dont think they will be) and land him at a contract friendly deal similar to adalius thomas (without further mortgage of the future).

of course trading players like faneca and ward for high round picks are the way to ensure you can make manuvers like this work.

Livinginthe past
07-03-2007, 11:10 PM
thanks for the link.

on the surface it looks like 2 patriot players are accounting for nearly 40% of the patriots total salary cap.

im sure thats what most players who score a 10 on their wonderlic test think and goes a long way in showing that the d. branch and a. samuel situation may only be the tip of the iceberg for the pats.

no matter how creative a team gets, thing always catches up. as has been shown throughout history, no team is bigger than the NFL.

when you dig deeper you see the patriots are pushing money into the future and relying on 1 year discount, character pickups and rookies to plug the holes.

a risky gamble, yet a calculated one.

on the steelers side, i dont see any risk of mortgaging the future. infact, with the way the salary cap is scheduled to rise theres a small chance we could even persue deangello hall after 08, if such desperate measures were needed (i dont think they will be) and land him at a contract friendly deal similar to adalius thomas (without further mortgage of the future).

of course trading players like faneca and ward for high round picks are the way to ensure you can make manuvers like this work.

I would hope even guys with a low wonderlic scores would be able to comprehend the difference between salary cap charge and actual paid salary.

I would even go as far as saying that the Patriots would go out of their way not to sign (rookie or otherwise) a player who couldn't get their head around such an elementary concept.

Without over complicating the issue with wonderlic scores, I would suggest that the Deion Branch/ Asante Samuel situations are caused by the typical pro/con scenario of winning consistently in the salary cap era that any team would face.

Its simply that the Patriots have been more successful than any other franchise this decade - and in particular during a time when both Asante and Deion have been starters for us.

They obviously want to be compensated for that.

You want to clarify how the Patriots are 'pushing money into the future'?

Asante has not been re-signed to this point to avoid just that scenario and Branch left twon without the deal he wanted.

tony hipchest
07-03-2007, 11:34 PM
You want to clarify how the Patriots are 'pushing money into the future'?

.

its really quite simple:

I would hope even guys with a low wonderlic scores would be able to comprehend the difference between salary cap charge and actual paid salary.didnt do so well on those wonderlics? :chuckle:

here ya go:

seymour making 24 million in 1 year with only a $600,000 cap charge = "pushing money into the future".

the USA today article clearly explained that. its not too complicated of a concept, really.

when you pay someone Now (signing bonuses) and push the Cap charges into the future you are Pushing money into the future. :hunch:

fansince'76
07-03-2007, 11:44 PM
the USA today article clearly explained that. its not too complicated of a concept, really.

when you pay someone Now (signing bonuses) and push the Cap charges into the future you are Pushing money into the future. :hunch:

Yep - from the article:

That's one of the oddities of the NFL's economic system, in which certain bonuses, usually for signing the contract, are often paid immediately but are counted against the salary cap over the life of the player's contract. Seymour's value may better be considered by looking at the average per year value of his deal: $9.33 million.

GBMelBlount
07-04-2007, 12:04 AM
Pat's have done well with overall player quality vs. pay in recent years. They have also done well vs. salary cap. AD's listings of our max pay for top players looks great! Are we well under the cap?

As far as Hall in 2008, Tony,...hopefully no need for that...however, never know. Also, as far as intelligence, never know either. Regarding Seymour Hiney, apparently Baker didn't do so well either, but regardless, he may still do great. Bottom line, never judge a guy by the size of his.....Wunderlich.

tony hipchest
07-04-2007, 12:24 AM
As far as Hall in 2008, Tony,...hopefully no need for that...however, never know. Also, as far as intelligence, never know either. Regarding Seymour Hiney, apparently Baker didn't do so well either, but regardless, he may still do great. Bottom line, never judge a guy by the size of his.....Wunderlich.hall for 2009 was a fecetious comment, since some think he is so desperately needed, and others think ike taylor has actually been "dropped".

the point is, the steelers can actually make the room to do so, if such desperate, last measure manuvers are needed....

Livinginthe past
07-04-2007, 01:19 PM
its really quite simple:

didnt do so well on those wonderlics? :chuckle:

here ya go:

seymour making 24 million in 1 year with only a $600,000 cap charge = "pushing money into the future".

the USA today article clearly explained that. its not too complicated of a concept, really.

when you pay someone Now (signing bonuses) and push the Cap charges into the future you are Pushing money into the future. :hunch:

You are confusing 'cap charge' with 'salary'.

Show me where Seymours 'cap charge' is $600k.

Seymours actual cap figure is $6.7million and $6million of that is paid this year as a 'Prorated Signing Bonus'.

Seymours cap hit is the 3rd highest on the team (he would be 2nd if Samuel signed a long term deal) so i've yet so any evidence of 'pushing money into the future'.

Try again.

xXTheSteelKingsXx
07-04-2007, 02:06 PM
How much cap space do the Steelers have? Its pretty tight isn't it???

Livinginthe past
07-04-2007, 02:24 PM
How much cap space do the Steelers have? Its pretty tight isn't it???

Here is the best website for that info.

http://www.steelersalarycap.com/

I'd say that have about $1million in space left

tony hipchest
07-04-2007, 03:15 PM
You are confusing 'cap charge' with 'salary'.

Show me where Seymours 'cap charge' is $600k.

Seymours actual cap figure is $6.7million and $6million of that is paid this year as a 'Prorated Signing Bonus'.

Seymours cap hit is the 3rd highest on the team (he would be 2nd if Samuel signed a long term deal) so i've yet so any evidence of 'pushing money into the future'.

Try again.im not really confusing anything, however i did make a mistake and type "cap charge" when i meant "base salary". but really its semantics. when you have such a large cap charge with low base salary it is representative of "money pushed into the future".

every team does it. nothing to feel ashamed about or try to deny. infact every dime above his "base salary" for the length of his contract is "money pushed into the future". it is true that you dont write anyone a check in the nfl for $24,000,000 and all that count towards the cap in that same year.

Livinginthe past
07-04-2007, 04:11 PM
im not really confusing anything, however i did make a mistake and type "cap charge" when i meant "base salary". but really its semantics. when you have such a large cap charge with low base salary it is representative of "money pushed into the future".

every team does it. nothing to feel ashamed about or try to deny. infact every dime above his "base salary" for the length of his contract is "money pushed into the future". it is true that you dont write anyone a check in the nfl for $24,000,000 and all that count towards the cap in that same year.

Thats great - you ask me for 'honesty' in another thread and then spin this load of BS.

It does not matter how the cap hit for a player is constructed - whether it is 'actual salary' or 'bonus money' it still counts equally towards the salary.

Thats why there isn't a cap on the actual base salary and also why 'bonus's' count toward the cap.

You tried to make out that the Patriots had counted Seymour as only $660k to this years cap and that there would be later much larger cap hits that they were 'pushing into the future'.

You and I both know you got this wrong.

For the record, Brady's base salary for this year is $720k, Adalius Thomas' is 900k, Donte Stallworth's is $700k, Wes Welkers is $550k.

These humbers prove that Seymour is hardly a rare example on the Patriots roster who salary cap hit is made up of primarily 'bonus money'.

Then again you could be right - maybe all these players are being 'pushed into the future'.

Just so you have some Steeler examples to help you understand.

Aaron Smiths cap hit $5.5million and his salary is $1.5million (thats $4 million 'pushed into the future)

Bens cap hit is $3.5million but he is only being paid $1million as 'actual salary' - oops another $2.5million 'pushed into the future'!!

tony hipchest
07-04-2007, 05:07 PM
Thats great - you ask me for 'honesty' in another thread and then spin this load of BS.

It does not matter how the cap hit for a player is constructed - whether it is 'actual salary' or 'bonus money' it still counts equally towards the salary.

Thats why there isn't a cap on the actual base salary and also why 'bonus's' count toward the cap.

You tried to make out that the Patriots had counted Seymour as only $660k to this years cap and that there would be later much larger cap hits that they were 'pushing into the future'.

You and I both know you got this wrong.

For the record, Brady's base salary for this year is $720k, Adalius Thomas' is 900k, Donte Stallworth's is $700k, Wes Welkers is $550k.

These humbers prove that Seymour is hardly a rare example on the Patriots roster who salary cap hit is made up of primarily 'bonus money'.

Then again you could be right - maybe all these players are being 'pushed into the future'.

Just so you have some Steeler examples to help you understand.

Aaron Smiths cap hit $5.5million and his salary is $1.5million (thats $4 million 'pushed into the future)

Bens cap hit is $3.5million but he is only being paid $1million as 'actual salary' - oops another $2.5million 'pushed into the future'!!im well aware of this. like i said all teams do it and its nothing to be ashamed of. when joey porter got his $20 million up front and guaranteed from the dolphins, any money above this years "base salary" and not counted towards the cap is money pushed into the future.

theres no "spin", and i didnt try to "make it out" to be anything more than what it was- seymore received 24 million in 06 and that money was spread out for the duration of his contract (ant its important to know the article isnt even about "this years cap" its about paychecks earned in 2006. what did seymore count against the cap last year????). i admitted i mistakingly put "cap charge" when the article i had just read and was quoting clearly stated "base salary". sometimes i think faster than i can type and my words get ahead of my fingers. shit happens, and its nothing for me to apologize for.

as per our recent discussion on duce staley and which portions of his bonus were amortized im sure you know that i know the difference between base salary and cap hit and wouldnt try to pull off such a blatantly see through "spinjob".

af far as the worst case of money pushed into the future on the steelers part it is probably hines ward who will count about 9 mil against the cap with only a 6 mil (or so salary ) in 08.

that is still pretty much small fries, as the steelers have yet to guarantee a $10 million bonus to ANY player.

like i said, its nothing to get defensive about and nothing that isnt going on everywhere else. i said in my 1st post on the matter, on the surface it would appear that the patriots had 40 million tied up in 2 players but i quickly showed that wasnt the case. if i was trying to do some bogus "spin" why bother?

GBMelBlount
07-04-2007, 09:59 PM
Here is the best website for that info.

http://www.steelersalarycap.com/

I'd say that have about $1million in space left

Interesting. This is same as Cowher tenure? I had heard/read Cowher frequently renegotiated to meet cap. If true it obviously worked for Cowher/Steelers.

Livinginthe past
07-04-2007, 11:04 PM
Interesting. This is same as Cowher tenure? I had heard/read Cowher frequently renegotiated to meet cap. If true it obviously worked for Cowher/Steelers.

My guess is that most teams leave an emergency fund of about $1million to cover injury replacements and the like at the beginning of the year.

xXTheSteelKingsXx
07-06-2007, 12:11 PM
Livinginthe past thanks for the link man.:thumbsup:

Livinginthe past
07-06-2007, 01:16 PM
Livinginthe past thanks for the link man.:thumbsup:

Ya welcome :cheers: