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revefsreleets
07-10-2007, 05:57 PM
The NAACP buried "Nig**r" today. Does anyone else feel uncomfortable with all the hypocrisy, or am I way out of line? The very organization that did so much in it's own community to artificially empower a word now wants to bury it? It was just a word, then the race card was played so hard that even black people in the media had to refer to it as "The 'N' Word". No offense, but doesn't the black community have about a million other more important challenges facing it then burying words they made so important in the first place? I just don't get it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/09/national/main3032635.shtml?source=RSSattr=U.S._3032635

HometownGal
07-10-2007, 06:06 PM
Wonder if they buried the word "honky" too? :rolleyes:

I agree revefsreleets - surely the NAACP has more important issues at hand.

Resists.....urge.....to.....go.....on.....a.....ra nt.

SteelCzar76
07-10-2007, 07:47 PM
No offense, but doesn't the black community have about a million other more important challenges facing it then burying words they made so important in the first place? I just don't get it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/09/national/main3032635.shtml?source=RSSattr=U.S._3032635


A word that THEY made so important in the FIRST PLACE ??

Was this word which originally meant simply the color black in latin not "made important in the FIRST place" by savage, demented, hypocritical, cowardly, muderous, honorless, thieving rapists as a means to belittle and or make less than human (in their unenlightened eyes and minds),......other human beings ?

Yes,...much to the 'dishonor' of the Black community the word was taken and used albeit with an entirely different context than before. And this can be considered foolish.

But at the same time,......let's not forget EXACTLY why this word bears so much signifigance in this nation. (And across the rest of the world as well )

fansince'76
07-10-2007, 08:10 PM
When is the NAACP going to do away with the word designated by the "C" in their organization's name? Seems to me that is a racist term as well....

tony hipchest
07-10-2007, 08:22 PM
When is the NAACP going to do away with the word designated by the "C" in their organization's name? Seems to me that is a racist term as well....this is where don imus would suggest they switch the "C" to the acronym for Afro-American, and become the "NAAAAPy headed hoes" :dang:

fansince'76
07-10-2007, 08:37 PM
this is where don imus would suggest they switch the "C" to the acronym for Afro-American, and become the "NAAAAPy headed hoes" :dang:

No, seriously - I'm becoming somewhat confused by what the NAACP considers acceptable verbiage in regards to race. It seems to me that most black people would be seriously offended by being referred to as "colored". Even Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/colored) refers to the word as being "often offensive" when used in this context. Why is it still in the organization's name?

SteelCzar76
07-10-2007, 08:39 PM
When is the NAACP going to do away with the word designated by the "C" in their organization's name? Seems to me that is a racist term as well....



Personally at this point,....i don't find anything humorous about the topic of this thread at all. I don't care about the hypocrisy of the NAACP or any other organization on the face of this planet.

But what does concern me is bigotry in any form be it subtle or otherwise on the part of any person of any particular ethnicity. (Because it's absoloute foolishness and archaic)

"Stand up" people are just that,.... and it has nothing to do with "breed". And the same can be said for weak, lowlife, foul, self righteous jackals,...as this has nothing to do with "breed" either. But is based upon an individuals particular character.

Yes,..different ethnic groups in a general sense may have different ways of carrying themselves,...many of which are humorous to those whom are not of that particular 'group'. But that's the case all accross the board.

And when someone's punk azz laughs at or tries to belittle someone else and it's not just strictly for the sake of humor,......they should look in the mirror and know that whatever "ethnic" group they belong is also pretty "entertaining" itself to those whom they are taking any types of shots at via stereotype or otherwise. Even if done subtlely,... but yet with obvious venom and hatred in their hearts.

HometownGal
07-10-2007, 08:39 PM
When is the NAACP going to do away with the word designated by the "C" in their organization's name? Seems to me that is a racist term as well....

I have to agree with you there, Gary.

HometownGal
07-10-2007, 08:47 PM
Personally at this point,....i don't find anything humorous about the topic of this thread at all. I don't care about the hypocrisy of the NAACP or any other organization on the face of this planet.

But what does concern me is bigotry in any form be it subtle or otherwise on the part of any person of any particular ethnicity. (Because it's absoloute foolishness and archaic)

"Stand up" people are just that,.... and it has nothing to do with "breed". And the same can be said for weak, lowlife, foul, self righteous jackals,...as this has nothing to do with "breed" either. But is based upon an individuals particular character.

Yes,..different ethnic groups in a general sense may have different ways of carrying themselves,...many of which are humorous to those whom are not of that particular 'group'. But that's the case all accross the board.

And when someone's punk azz laughs at or tries to belittle someone else and it's not just strictly for the sake of humor,......they should look in the mirror and know that whatever "ethnic" group they belong is also pretty "entertaining" itself to those whom they are taking any types of shots at via stereotype or otherwise. Even if done subtlely,... but yet with obvious venom and hatred in their hearts.

Czar - I don't think anyone finds this topic humorous. I don't have a racist bone in my body, but I can't disagree with some of the opinions contained in this thread. The NAACP has long been one of the most hypocritical and self-righteous organizations out there, imho, and if they are going to officially "burn the "N" word (a word which is and never has been in my vocabulary), let's see if they encourage the black race to stop using it as well. I can honestly say that I've heard the black race refer to each other using that word more times than I've ever heard a reference to that word by a member or members of any other race.

fansince'76
07-10-2007, 08:48 PM
And when someone's punk azz laughs at or tries to belittle someone else and it's not just strictly for the sake of humor,......they should look in the mirror and know that whatever "ethnic" group they belong is also pretty f*cking "entertaining" itself to those whom they are taking any types of shots at via stereotype or otherwise. Even if done subtlely,... but yet with obvious venom and hatred in their hearts.

I wasn't taking a swipe at the NAACP or black people with that question. It's a FACT that that word is offensive to blacks, so why is it still in the organization's name? Valid question. I hate bigotry myself - who doesn't?

Crushzilla
07-10-2007, 08:57 PM
While the Italians weren't as oppressed on as large as a level here. I often take "WOP" or "Dego" in stride. No "our word" BS.

The mannerisms of the Italians are funny. I do talk with my hands and I love a slice of pizza or a bowl of gnocchi. The NAACP has created their own monster so they can slay it and be the hero in the end...

That was probably a little harsh... Sorry if its taken that way, but the ENTIRE world needs to lighten up just a bit...

SteelCzar76
07-10-2007, 09:19 PM
While the Italians weren't as oppressed on as large as a level here. I often take "WOP" or "Dego" in stride. No "our word" BS.

The mannerisms of the Italians are funny. I do talk with my hands and I love a slice of pizza or a bowl of gnocchi. The NAACP has created their own monster so they can slay it and be the hero in the end...

That was probably a little harsh... Sorry if its taken that way, but the ENTIRE world needs to lighten up just a bit...



You'd be suprised how many people wouldn't "take these words the wrong way",...but would instead admit the worth of whatever truth lies within them.

And at then make the concious decision to say "F##k you" just based simply upon the person that your are without it being predicated upon your ethnic background at all.

Was that ,......."light enough" ? LMAO

tony hipchest
07-10-2007, 09:33 PM
I wasn't taking a swipe at the NAACP or black people with that question. It's a FACT that that word is offensive to blacks, so why is it still in the organization's name? Valid question. I hate bigotry myself - who doesn't?i think it was my attempt at humor (and an obvious swipe of the bigotry of don imus) that was taken offensively.

however there was a method to my madness that wasnt intended to offend anybody. my post pointed out the irony that even if the NAACP replaced "Colored" with the politically correct term of "Afro American" the acronym would then become NAAAAP. i think this would be just as counter productive as still using the term "colored". again, my intent wasnt to offend anybody.

but then again, im one who finds chris rocks, jim carreys, eddie murphys, and richard pryors, sense of humour hilarious so what do i know?

SteelCzar76
07-10-2007, 09:43 PM
i think it was my attempt at humor (and an obvious swipe of the bigotry of don imus) that was taken offensively.

however there was a method to my madness that wasnt intended to offend anybody. my post pointed out the irony that even if the NAACP replaced "Colored" with the politically correct term of "Afro American" the acronym would then become NAAAAP. i think this would be just as counter productive as still using the term "colored". again, my intent wasnt to offend anybody.

but then again, im one who finds chris rocks, jim carreys, eddie murphys, and richard pryors, sense of humour hilarious so what do i know?


Tone,...as you are obviously refering to me. Let me state for the record that nothing you posted within this thread has anything do do at all with me having any particular grievance.

fansince'76
07-10-2007, 09:47 PM
i think it was my attempt at humor (and an obvious swipe of the bigotry of don imus) that was taken offensively.

No Tony, it's pretty obvious who that was intended for, since I was directly quoted in the post.

Godfather
07-10-2007, 09:50 PM
They specifically stated that nobody--black or white--should use the word.

As far as the "C", isn't it kind of silly to suggest that they change their name every 10 years to keep up with political correctness?

fansince'76
07-10-2007, 09:51 PM
As far as the "C", isn't it kind of silly to suggest that they change their name every 10 years to keep up with political correctness?

Good point, Godfather. However, isn't political correctness itself rooted in silliness?

MasterOfPuppets
07-10-2007, 11:05 PM
Good point, Godfather. However, isn't political correctness itself rooted in silliness?
anything with the word "politic" in it ,is guaranteed nonsence...:coffee:

MasterOfPuppets
07-10-2007, 11:08 PM
i think it was my attempt at humor (and an obvious swipe of the bigotry of don imus) that was taken offensively.

however there was a method to my madness that wasnt intended to offend anybody. my post pointed out the irony that even if the NAACP replaced "Colored" with the politically correct term of "Afro American" the acronym would then become NAAAAP. i think this would be just as counter productive as still using the term "colored". again, my intent wasnt to offend anybody.

but then again, im one who finds chris rocks, jim carreys, eddie murphys, and richard pryors, sense of humour hilarious so what do i know?
no love for george carlin??? :hunch:

PAMillerGrrl83
07-10-2007, 11:14 PM
I'm sorry guys but I've always found the *n* word disgusting, to hear or heck to even see. I'd love it if I never ever saw or heard it again.

Cape Cod Steel Head
07-11-2007, 01:36 AM
A word that THEY made so important in the FIRST PLACE ??

Was this word which originally meant simply the color black in latin not "made important in the FIRST place" by savage, demented, hypocritical, cowardly, muderous, honorless, thieving rapists as a means to belittle and or make less than human (in their unenlightened eyes and minds),......other human beings ?

Yes,...much to the 'dishonor' of the Black community the word was taken and used albeit with an entirely different context than before. And this can be considered foolish.

But at the same time,......let's not forget EXACTLY why this word bears so much signifigance in this nation. (And across the rest of the world as well )
Thank you ! I would not have been so kind.

Cape Cod Steel Head
07-11-2007, 01:39 AM
While the Italians weren't as oppressed on as large as a level here. I often take "WOP" or "Dego" in stride. No "our word" BS.

The mannerisms of the Italians are funny. I do talk with my hands and I love a slice of pizza or a bowl of gnocchi. The NAACP has created their own monster so they can slay it and be the hero in the end...

That was probably a little harsh... Sorry if its taken that way, but the ENTIRE world needs to lighten up just a bit...I think you may need to do a little research on why there was a NEED for the NAACP to even have to exist in the first place.

revefsreleets
07-11-2007, 07:57 AM
This is getting off course. Let me show another example of political correctness run amok. I saw a news show lately where the news anchor (who was black) was calling black French people African-Americans for fear of using some term that wasn't PC. The way words accumulate power they don't deserve is when people go out of their way to assign too much of that power to those words.

stlrtruck
07-11-2007, 08:30 AM
What's sad is that it's not the common everyday people that have brought light to the hyprocisy of the world's use of words. It is those with some power, whether it be media, political, ethnical, or even theological. It seems those in the position of power want to play nicey nice with everyone and it just doesn't work that way.

Not everyone in the world will get along with everyone else. I'm not saying that this should give a reason for being racist, sexist, or some other kind of bigot but instead that if you aren't in agreement with those around you, don't hang around with them.

What's even sadder is that there have been studies done that show if you take two people who are different in one fashion or another, and put them in a specific boundry that they will work together, have respect for each other, and otherwise live without using derogatory comments towards each other.

While it is unfortunate that there are still people in the world today who think slavery shouldn't have been abolished, it is also unfortunate that individual groups of people continue to use words that they would choose others not to use in describing them.

When individuals forego the NAACP and make a stand for their own self value, then and only then do I believe that we will see a change in how people use words describe others.

Bottom line - We are all God's children. And while I may occassionally be in disagreement with my brother or sister, I love them, respect them, and want to fellowship with them!

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-11-2007, 08:49 AM
When is the NAACP going to do away with the word designated by the "C" in their organization's name? Seems to me that is a racist term as well....

hmmmmmmm.... :scratchchin:

Livinginthe past
07-11-2007, 09:58 AM
One of the biggest hinderances to genuine liberal causes is the input of the evangelical extreme left.

For example, there is at least one guy on the Muslim Council of Britain who has, in the past, strongly hinted that the Fatwa (death sentence handed down by the Supreme Leader of Iran) issued against Salman Rushdie could somehow be justified and that Rushdie was somehow to blame.

He basically sentenced himself to death by writing a book.

There are members of the extreme left that think the term accident 'black spot' is derogatory to black people.

All this does, is allow those on the conservative right to point at these nut-jobs and condemn the whole liberal movement as head-in-the-clouds nonsense and to keeping on parading their 'average joe' racism as something that is acceptable.

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-11-2007, 10:27 AM
One of the biggest hinderances to genuine liberal causes is the input of the evangelical extreme left.

For example, there is at least one guy on the Muslim Council of Britain who has, in the past, strongly hinted that the Fatwa (death sentence handed down by the Supreme Leader of Iran) issued against Salman Rushdie could somehow be justified and that Rushdie was somehow to blame.

He basically sentenced himself to death by writing a book.

There are members of the extreme left that think the term accident 'black spot' is derogatory to black people.

All this does, is allow those on the conservative right to point at these nut-jobs and condemn the whole liberal movement as head-in-the-clouds nonsense and to keeping on parading their 'average joe' racism as something that is acceptable.

Regardless of political ties...it is almost ALWAYS the uneducated, who are racist. For instance, I think you will find more racists among redneck liberal Dixie-crats than among religious conservatives.

X-Terminator
07-11-2007, 10:56 AM
You know what I did when I saw footage of this "ceremony?"

I chuckled.

Why? Because they're burying a word that should have been dead and buried long ago. Or, at least it would have been had black folks not created one huge double standard by using the word in a "different context" and try to justify it, then turn around and persecute a white person for using it because it's offensive and racist. I don't give a damn what context it's used in - I don't like the word, it's a disgusting and derogatory word, and it should not be used by anyone, anywhere, at any time. It's amazing, and sad, that it took a pissed off stand-up comic and a shock jock for the NAACP to finally come to that realization and speak out against it.

The media and especially the entertainment industry should also take their fair share of the blame for the double standard taking hold.

stlrtruck
07-11-2007, 11:16 AM
You know what I did when I saw footage of this "ceremony?"

I chuckled.

Why? Because they're burying a word that should have been dead and buried long ago. Or, at least it would have been had black folks not created one huge double standard by using the word in a "different context" and try to justify it, then turn around and persecute a white person for using it because it's offensive and racist. I don't give a damn what context it's used in - I don't like the word, it's a disgusting and derogatory word, and it should not be used by anyone, anywhere, at any time. It's amazing, and sad, that it took a pissed off stand-up comic and a shock jock for the NAACP to finally come to that realization and speak out against it.

The media and especially the entertainment industry should also take their fair share of the blame for the double standard taking hold.

And the Gold Medal Quote goes to X-T!!!! :thumbsup:

Livinginthe past
07-11-2007, 11:43 AM
Regardless of political ties...it is almost ALWAYS the uneducated, who are racist. For instance, I think you will find more racists among redneck liberal Dixie-crats than among religious conservatives.

Well sure, i'd use the term 'ignorant' (in the proper sense) rather than uneducated.

I guess that people with a lack of money, tend have a less varied experience of what life has to offer and are therefore basing their opinions on what others have told them to believe.

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-11-2007, 12:01 PM
Well sure, i'd use the term 'ignorant' (in the proper sense) rather than uneducated.

I guess that people with a lack of money, tend have a less varied experience of what life has to offer and are therefore basing their opinions on what others have told them to believe.

....or those who have nothing to be proud of due to lack of effort...will grab a hold of ...and glorify something that is beyond their control...i.e. the color of their skin.

MasterOfPuppets
07-11-2007, 06:08 PM
Well sure, i'd use the term 'ignorant' (in the proper sense) rather than uneducated.

I guess that people with a lack of money, tend have a less varied experience of what life has to offer and are therefore basing their opinions on what others have told them to believe.
i disagree. how many wealthy people take the oppurtunity to experience life in a ghetto? after all isn't that where racial diversity is the most prominent? do you think the wealthy white guy living in beverly hills has a family of blacks living on one side,and a family of hispanics on the other?
i guess you could say
having a black maid ,and a mexican gardner ,would qualify as a "varied experience" on different races....:coffee:

Aussie_steeler
07-11-2007, 10:03 PM
Hip hop culture has to accept a large part of the blame for the proliferation of the N word globally.

In Australia our youth gravitate towards american trends, as that is the predominant image broadcast on our television stations. It is sad to see our Indigenous aboriginal youth use this word as greeting to each other. It is equally as sad to see the rest of our multicultural youth try to use the word as well. It sounds ugly no matter what context it is used in.

We have battled for so long to end racism in this country but our youth keep inflaming the situation with hip hop associated rebellion. The history behind our colonised country still plays an equally big part in battle with racism.

Remove the use of these derogatory terms from our television and music, and our next generation of youth will hopeful be free of these unacceptable terms. Add to that the need to remove the endless put downs to females in rap music and we might make some progress for our children.

Glad to see the end of the word, personally. Lets hope it filters down to the youth and in 20 odd years it may begin to disappear.

"One Race --> The human race"

Livinginthe past
07-12-2007, 01:56 AM
i disagree. how many wealthy people take the oppurtunity to experience life in a ghetto? after all isn't that where racial diversity is the most prominent? do you think the wealthy white guy living in beverly hills has a family of blacks living on one side,and a family of hispanics on the other?
i guess you could say
having a black maid ,and a mexican gardner ,would qualify as a "varied experience" on different races....:coffee:

I wasn't referring to 'wealthy' people when I made that comment, just people who are 'not poor'.

Then again, I wouldn't regard myself as wealthy but i've never lived in a ghetto, but I have experienced poverty to some degree in different parts of the world.

People with money at least have the means to experience more diverse situations - of course it doesn't mean they are all going to take that opportunity.

silver & black
07-12-2007, 07:58 PM
You know what I did when I saw footage of this "ceremony?"

I chuckled.

Why? Because they're burying a word that should have been dead and buried long ago. Or, at least it would have been had black folks not created one huge double standard by using the word in a "different context" and try to justify it, then turn around and persecute a white person for using it because it's offensive and racist. I don't give a damn what context it's used in - I don't like the word, it's a disgusting and derogatory word, and it should not be used by anyone, anywhere, at any time. It's amazing, and sad, that it took a pissed off stand-up comic and a shock jock for the NAACP to finally come to that realization and speak out against it.

The media and especially the entertainment industry should also take their fair share of the blame for the double standard taking hold.

Not much more to say after that post... well said.

MasterOfPuppets
07-12-2007, 08:48 PM
I wasn't referring to 'wealthy' people when I made that comment, just people who are 'not poor'.

Then again, I wouldn't regard myself as wealthy but i've never lived in a ghetto, but I have experienced poverty to some degree in different parts of the world.

People with money at least have the means to experience more diverse situations - of course it doesn't mean they are all going to take that opportunity.
the poverty isn't what i was refering to. my point was there's usually more different races to be found in a poor neighborhood than in a non financial challenged area. thus giving unfortunate people more oppurtunity to experience different races and cultures on an up close and personel level.

revefsreleets
07-12-2007, 09:10 PM
X-terminator got it.

Steelerstrength
07-19-2007, 01:45 PM
You know what I did when I saw footage of this "ceremony?"

I chuckled.

Why? Because they're burying a word that should have been dead and buried long ago. Or, at least it would have been had black folks not created one huge double standard by using the word in a "different context" and try to justify it, then turn around and persecute a white person for using it because it's offensive and racist. I don't give a damn what context it's used in - I don't like the word, it's a disgusting and derogatory word, and it should not be used by anyone, anywhere, at any time. It's amazing, and sad, that it took a pissed off stand-up comic and a shock jock for the NAACP to finally come to that realization and speak out against it.

The media and especially the entertainment industry should also take their fair share of the blame for the double standard taking hold.


The NAACP obviously thought it was time for ANOTHER display of their disgust for the word! For too many years have they been denouncing the use of the word, especially by the younger generation of rappers within hip-hop culture. It has, and always will be offensive for anyone to use the term, especially if your from another race, because it is more offensive. Their disdane for the word has never subsided, it's just what our media chose to report as the latest news, or not. We are fed what the media chooses. Michael Richards bullshit rant, and Imus' idiotic comment, were just another wound brought into the light by the media. The NAACP took the opportunity, once again, to display the same message, but in a different eye-catching way, so they can attract and use that same predictable media for their cause. It is not ironic, it is a necessary way to convey a message when you feel it is once again required.

Preacher
07-19-2007, 02:39 PM
The problem is that there is way to much symbolism, and very little substance to what is done on the racial front these days... and politics are completely at the core of it.

I have a unique perspective, as I grew up in a very white area. There was one black kid in my grade school and 3 in my highschool. Interestingly, they were all treated very well. This I know, because they were some of the most popular people at school.

However, as I stated in other threads, I have pastored in inner-city black neighborhoods, now pastoring in a predominantly Latino neighborhood, married a Jewish woman (who believes in Jesus), etc. etc.

What I have found is that racism is an untamed extension of every humans xenophobic tenancy. Xenophobia (in its proper understanding, not as a euphemism for racism) is useful, in some places good as it keeps humans safe in circumstances they are not aware of. The fear of others and other cultures often will keep a person quite and observing. However, there are a number of times when Xenophobia back-channels into what could be best described as a "reverse culture shock." This happens when the culture that is surrounding a person is being changed by another race that is coming into the community, changing the dynamic of the community. The original race thus reacts to the changes with fear and strikes out verbally, physically, or harbors much resentment. This phenomenon is seen in the words WOP (W) ith (O) ut (P) apers (or passports). It was a reaction to Italians coming over and bringing a culture with them that was distinctly different the culture in the surrounding community. The same can be same for the Asians, Irish, etc. etc. However, EVERY community deals with these problems. Watc ANY community of ANY race deal with the changing culture of that community as it involves another culture, and you will have the same issues.

In other places, racism is blunt and open. In the United States, the issue of racism and blacks is, HAS TO BE, distinctly different then the issue of racism for any other race, and thus solved differently. The black community was the only community that was literally enslaved for centuries, freed, and then re-enslaved by our government into the social welfare system destroying families... If you don't believe me, ask a single mother what happens if she marries the father of the child.

Now that happens in all races, however, in the U.S., we have tilted the scales. We have created public schools which fail to teach the children, but not given the inner-city children the rights or ability to go to private schools through vouchers if their public schools fail them. Then, We tell them that they are not good enough to compete with other races and add "bonus points" for their color in college entrances... and YES.. that absolutely happens. Then, in college, we have created a whole department for black people to study "African studies." Now while that is nice, it provides for a GREAT MINIMUM WAGE JOB when they graduate. THen, politicians come along again and blame it on these people, those people, history, etc.. and here is a a few more dollars if you keep voting for me. Thus, there goes another generation. It is SO BAD now that in many places, if a black child gets good grades, he gets jumped after school and is told to stop selling out the race. Yes, I know second-hand about this, as I have spoken to people who have seen or participated in it. Why does it happen? Because young childrne are now believing the lies that excelling in education is for white and asian kids, not black kids.

That is why I look at the NAACP, and shake my head. Because they don't have the intestinal fortitude to deal with the real problems at hand, lest they lose some of their own political power. Instead, they attack a word, instead of the institutional prejudices that are behind the word.

Racial tensions will always exist. All it takes is another culture moving into the area. However, what needs to change is the institutionalized lies that are now sold to the black community.

Of course, the organized intelligentsia that is driving the racial discussion now is the same group (Media heads, politicians, university heads, and profs, etc), that was driving Eugenics in its hey-day.

Now that I have thoroughly ticked off 80 percent of the board... I will go back into hiding!

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-19-2007, 03:09 PM
The problem is that there is way to much symbolism, and very little substance to what is done on the racial front these days... and politics are completely at the core of it.

I have a unique perspective, as I grew up in a very white area. There was one black kid in my grade school and 3 in my highschool. Interestingly, they were all treated very well. This I know, because they were some of the most popular people at school.

However, as I stated in other threads, I have pastored in inner-city black neighborhoods, now pastoring in a predominantly Latino neighborhood, married a Jewish woman (who believes in Jesus), etc. etc.

What I have found is that racism is an untamed extension of every humans xenophobic tenancy. Xenophobia (in its proper understanding, not as a euphemism for racism) is useful, in some places good as it keeps humans safe in circumstances they are not aware of. The fear of others and other cultures often will keep a person quite and observing. However, there are a number of times when Xenophobia back-channels into what could be best described as a "reverse culture shock." This happens when the culture that is surrounding a person is being changed by another race that is coming into the community, changing the dynamic of the community. The original race thus reacts to the changes with fear and strikes out verbally, physically, or harbors much resentment. This phenomenon is seen in the words WOP (W) ith (O) ut (P) apers (or passports). It was a reaction to Italians coming over and bringing a culture with them that was distinctly different the culture in the surrounding community. The same can be same for the Asians, Irish, etc. etc. However, EVERY community deals with these problems. Watc ANY community of ANY race deal with the changing culture of that community as it involves another culture, and you will have the same issues.

In other places, racism is blunt and open. In the United States, the issue of racism and blacks is, HAS TO BE, distinctly different then the issue of racism for any other race, and thus solved differently. The black community was the only community that was literally enslaved for centuries, freed, and then re-enslaved by our government into the social welfare system destroying families... If you don't believe me, ask a single mother what happens if she marries the father of the child.

Now that happens in all races, however, in the U.S., we have tilted the scales. We have created public schools which fail to teach the children, but not given the inner-city children the rights or ability to go to private schools through vouchers if their public schools fail them. Then, We tell them that they are not good enough to compete with other races and add "bonus points" for their color in college entrances... and YES.. that absolutely happens. Then, in college, we have created a whole department for black people to study "African studies." Now while that is nice, it provides for a GREAT MINIMUM WAGE JOB when they graduate. THen, politicians come along again and blame it on these people, those people, history, etc.. and here is a a few more dollars if you keep voting for me. Thus, there goes another generation. It is SO BAD now that in many places, if a black child gets good grades, he gets jumped after school and is told to stop selling out the race. Yes, I know second-hand about this, as I have spoken to people who have seen or participated in it. Why does it happen? Because young childrne are now believing the lies that excelling in education is for white and asian kids, not black kids.

That is why I look at the NAACP, and shake my head. Because they don't have the intestinal fortitude to deal with the real problems at hand, lest they lose some of their own political power. Instead, they attack a word, instead of the institutional prejudices that are behind the word.

Racial tensions will always exist. All it takes is another culture moving into the area. However, what needs to change is the institutionalized lies that are now sold to the black community.

Of course, the organized intelligentsia that is driving the racial discussion now is the same group (Media heads, politicians, university heads, and profs, etc), that was driving Eugenics in its hey-day.

Now that I have thoroughly ticked off 80 percent of the board... I will go back into hiding!


Perhaps one of the best posts ever!!!!...thanks Preacher!

ChronoCross
07-19-2007, 03:38 PM
Race such a funny topic that people by all races keep it going. N word, now that is funny that they even call each other that, it simple means in lame terms ignorant in the dictionary. So if they like calling each other ignorant which means in other terms dumb so be it. I could care less if they would call me honky are cracker, sure I honk my car when some almost hits me, and even have some cheese on my crackers. I simply do not let it bother me. But some people are still to dumb and ignorant to see threw it all and do not want to get along. I would rather make new friends and get along. But hey this world is not peachy.

Steelerstrength
07-19-2007, 04:23 PM
The problem is that there is way to much symbolism, and very little substance to what is done on the racial front these days... and politics are completely at the core of it.

I have a unique perspective, as I grew up in a very white area. There was one black kid in my grade school and 3 in my highschool. Interestingly, they were all treated very well. This I know, because they were some of the most popular people at school.

However, as I stated in other threads, I have pastored in inner-city black neighborhoods, now pastoring in a predominantly Latino neighborhood, married a Jewish woman (who believes in Jesus), etc. etc.

What I have found is that racism is an untamed extension of every humans xenophobic tenancy. Xenophobia (in its proper understanding, not as a euphemism for racism) is useful, in some places good as it keeps humans safe in circumstances they are not aware of. The fear of others and other cultures often will keep a person quite and observing. However, there are a number of times when Xenophobia back-channels into what could be best described as a "reverse culture shock." This happens when the culture that is surrounding a person is being changed by another race that is coming into the community, changing the dynamic of the community. The original race thus reacts to the changes with fear and strikes out verbally, physically, or harbors much resentment. This phenomenon is seen in the words WOP (W) ith (O) ut (P) apers (or passports). It was a reaction to Italians coming over and bringing a culture with them that was distinctly different the culture in the surrounding community. The same can be same for the Asians, Irish, etc. etc. However, EVERY community deals with these problems. Watc ANY community of ANY race deal with the changing culture of that community as it involves another culture, and you will have the same issues.

In other places, racism is blunt and open. In the United States, the issue of racism and blacks is, HAS TO BE, distinctly different then the issue of racism for any other race, and thus solved differently. The black community was the only community that was literally enslaved for centuries, freed, and then re-enslaved by our government into the social welfare system destroying families... If you don't believe me, ask a single mother what happens if she marries the father of the child.

Now that happens in all races, however, in the U.S., we have tilted the scales. We have created public schools which fail to teach the children, but not given the inner-city children the rights or ability to go to private schools through vouchers if their public schools fail them. Then, We tell them that they are not good enough to compete with other races and add "bonus points" for their color in college entrances... and YES.. that absolutely happens. Then, in college, we have created a whole department for black people to study "African studies." Now while that is nice, it provides for a GREAT MINIMUM WAGE JOB when they graduate. THen, politicians come along again and blame it on these people, those people, history, etc.. and here is a a few more dollars if you keep voting for me. Thus, there goes another generation. It is SO BAD now that in many places, if a black child gets good grades, he gets jumped after school and is told to stop selling out the race. Yes, I know second-hand about this, as I have spoken to people who have seen or participated in it. Why does it happen? Because young childrne are now believing the lies that excelling in education is for white and asian kids, not black kids.

That is why I look at the NAACP, and shake my head. Because they don't have the intestinal fortitude to deal with the real problems at hand, lest they lose some of their own political power. Instead, they attack a word, instead of the institutional prejudices that are behind the word.

Racial tensions will always exist. All it takes is another culture moving into the area. However, what needs to change is the institutionalized lies that are now sold to the black community.

Of course, the organized intelligentsia that is driving the racial discussion now is the same group (Media heads, politicians, university heads, and profs, etc), that was driving Eugenics in its hey-day.

Now that I have thoroughly ticked off 80 percent of the board... I will go back into hiding!

Don't count me as one who is ticked-off. Rather one who appreciates a different perspective. I thought I should add a new perspective.

I had the fortune of teaching Strength & Conditioning to scholarship & non-scholarship athletes at a D1 University of California campus for seven years. My expertise was in Men's Basketball.Our team was 60% Black and 40% white, that arrived from many different demographics. Through our many conversations, both in the weight room and at BBQ's at my home, we discussed many topics.

Regarding a college education; The overwhelming opinion was that a college education is intended to open your mind to new and different perspectives, increase your critical thinking capacity, and expand your knowledge in different subjects. Not one person ever mentioned finding a job in the exact subject that they studied. They spoke of being a productive citizen in society by utilizing their knowledge while respecting differences, strengths and weaknesses.

Many have gone on to play basketball in other countries, France, Belgium, Italy, Germany, New Zeland, Luxemborg, Mexico, Argentina, Japan, just to name a few. Others, even with a degree in Black Studies, have become teachers and one very successful Real Estate Agent.

Preacher, what you see as adding "...bonus points", I see as a method to diversify the campus that will add to the respect and identify differences in socionomics. It offers opportunity to some who, as reflected by history, may not have the means. To me that spells opportunity for all to learn from one another, not you are "not good enough to compete with other races." While it would be optimal to say the field is level and all should be treated equal no matter what, but that would be completely ignoring our historical actions as a country. We are progressing, but as obvious as this and many other similar threads prove, we are not there yet. I agree with you that racial tensions will always exist. That's exactly why we must always do battle with them, to eradicate them, as a goal, as one.

Thanks for reading a different perspective. I also appreciate yours and enjoy reading your posts.

Preacher
07-19-2007, 05:12 PM
Steelerstrength... Excellent post. Thanks for thinking through the response... Let me add a few things here.

Don't count me as one who is ticked-off. Rather one who appreciates a different perspective. I thought I should add a new perspective.

But what if I don't want a new perspective? :sofunny::sofunny: I enjoyed the post...

I had the fortune of teaching Strength & Conditioning to scholarship & non-scholarship athletes at a D1 University of California campus for seven years. My expertise was in Men's Basketball.Our team was 60% Black and 40% white, that arrived from many different demographics. Through our many conversations, both in the weight room and at BBQ's at my home, we discussed many topics.

Regarding a college education; The overwhelming opinion was that a college education is intended to open your mind to new and different perspectives, increase your critical thinking capacity, and expand your knowledge in different subjects.

That's excellent. I wonder though if those students are a normal sample of the black student population... or any student population for that matter. I would suggest that a student that puts out that much effort at a sport has the ability to understand what dedication is across the board. As a result, they have a belief in themselves that many students, I would argue especially those from inner-city homes and school do not have.

Maybe I should have been clearer in my original post that I see this issue mainly with inner-city black children... and adults for that matter. Interestingly, it is also affecting inner-city white children, at this point, almost the same way. To a person though, it also depends on parenting, which gets into a whole different ball game. Two things happened to black men which have destroyed the black family. 1. Welfare... the state has taken the place of the man in families. 2. Vietnam. Many Many lower class black men were taken from their homes and young families and sent to Vietnam via the draft. This didn't affect white men as much because if you were in college for the most part, you were exempt from the draft. The parents of these men were share-croppers... or one generation removed, and completely destitute. Thus, this second generation, which normally generates the wealth in the family (2nd generation in a new country, or freed in a country), was not able to free their families. There were thousands upon thousands of families that were destroyed.

In the end, these families never climbed out of the system. What I would want to know, is what was your students background, and how did they make it out of the inner-city if that was their beginning. My care is not to place blame, but to find answers...

Not one person ever mentioned finding a job in the exact subject that they studied. They spoke of being a productive citizen in society by utilizing their knowledge while respecting differences, strengths and weaknesses.

Many have gone on to play basketball in other countries, France, Belgium, Italy, Germany, New Zeland, Luxemborg, Mexico, Argentina, Japan, just to name a few. Others, even with a degree in Black Studies, have become teachers and one very successful Real Estate Agent.

A degree opens doors, period. I agree. However, a degree in philosophy, science, medicine, math (engineering), etc. opens more doors.

Preacher, what you see as adding "...bonus points", I see as a method to diversify the campus that will add to the respect and identify differences in socionomics. It offers opportunity to some who, as reflected by history, may not have the means. To me that spells opportunity for all to learn from one another, not you are "not good enough to compete with other races." While it would be optimal to say the field is level and all should be treated equal no matter what, but that would be completely ignoring our historical actions as a country.

In the first part, (bolded) I understand the needed to offer opportunity to those who have been shunted by the historical racism that have been experienced in the US. What I don't understand however, is fixing the problem by not addressing the problem itself. Adding points to an application because of race doesn't address the issue that the person wasn't able to score high enough on SAT's, grades, entrance interview, etc. It simply gives the person a chance to get into school with a little bit lower overall bar. I would even be happy if these issues were actually addressed in college. But they don't seem to be. Instead, the overall level of college education seems to be diminishing (Not blaming this subject, but just hte overall level). That is why I would prefer to see inner-city students have the ability to take their federal education money, and walk away from a failing school to a private school that can give them the education.

To the second half of the post, I agree that the field should be treated equal, but can't yet because there are boneheads everywhere... on all sides. However, when it comes to employment, who is the employer going to want to give a raise or a promotion too? The person who makes the most money for the company and runs the tightest shop, without regard to race (hopefully). My problem with the whole thing is that by recognizing the problem and creating a system which tilts to accommodate the problem of racism, racism is entrenched deeper instead of eliminated. I would rather fix the problem itself (as I am sure you would... please don't read this as me saying you don't wanna!!). In my opinion, that means we must have a complete reformation of the public school system, with focus on improving or eliminating inner-city public schools (elimination would be tied in with the federal education money and bussing to private schools of the students choice within a certain radius). Yes, that would cost more money. But it is the least we can do as we built this country on the backs of slaves for the first hundred years.

We are progressing, but as obvious as this and many other similar threads prove, we are not there yet. I agree with you that racial tensions will always exist. That's exactly why we must always do battle with them, to eradicate them, as a goal, as one.

I agree. However, I don't think it will ever be done, but that is a theological belief. However, if you were in my church last Sunday, you would have seen Latino, Black, White, Jews (who follow Jesus), and Gentiles all worshiping and eating together, without a care for race. It was wonderful.

Thanks for reading a different perspective. I also appreciate yours and enjoy reading your posts.

Likewise. Education comes with the free and unhindered exchange of ideas... one place where Political correctness is destroying education.

Steelerstrength
07-19-2007, 06:23 PM
Hey preach, you bust me up! :sofunny: "What if I don't want a new perspective?" How many times have you felt that from someone you are trying to converse with?

I also hear you on the reformation of the school system. Let's reform our political system while we are at it! Deal? :thumbsup:

There were a few inner-city kids who struggled with authority. They also had issue's back home with friends getting killed, and family communication issue's. Intellect was not the issue, they did have to meet high standards to even enroll at a UC school, scholarship or not. The UC system is very strict with their student-athlete standards. Those are the things that made it tougher for them to maintain grades. To help the situation, one family actually moved to a better neighborhood. Now that's sacrifice, and one they could barely afford! I do know that the athlete was sending some of his scholarship money home just to help his brothers and sisters. The parents would not have any of that, so it was all incognito. Well, that young man just had a try-out for the Atlanta Hawks. Not sure he will make it, but that usually opens the door to Europe, and a healthy contract and life experience.

You are correct about the level of dedication these athletes possessed coming in. I could see the lack of possibilities without basketball in their lives.

Nice to hear about the diversity in your church! By the way, I'm Mexican-American, my wife is Jewish. :smile:

Preacher
07-19-2007, 07:25 PM
Hey preach, you bust me up! :sofunny: "What if I don't want a new perspective?" How many times have you felt that from someone you are trying to converse with?

Hey... I converse with Tony Hip all the time!! :poke: :sofunny:

I also hear you on the reformation of the school system. Let's reform our political system while we are at it! Deal? :thumbsup:

I believe in miracles... never said I was a miracle worker!!! :wink02:

There were a few inner-city kids who struggled with authority. They also had issue's back home with friends getting killed, and family communication issue's.

Yep, I know and understand. It is SO tough to reach them.

Intellect was not the issue, they did have to meet high standards to even enroll at a UC school, scholarship or not. The UC system is very strict with their student-athlete standards. Those are the things that made it tougher for them to maintain grades.

I agree... Intellect never is the issue, it is the information that is given to the intellect to process. My argument is that the information is skewed or not available because of bad teaching, etc. THen, they are taugh that the problem is not that they are missing info, but that it is something else, maybe even not as smart. That is what burns me up about all of this.

To help the situation, one family actually moved to a better neighborhood. Now that's sacrifice, and one they could barely afford! I do know that the athlete was sending some of his scholarship money home just to help his brothers and sisters. The parents would not have any of that, so it was all incognito. Well, that young man just had a try-out for the Atlanta Hawks. Not sure he will make it, but that usually opens the door to Europe, and a healthy contract and life experience.

That is what I kind of surmised when discussing the difference between the kids you worked with and the ones I was thinking about. The kids you worked with... will jump on every opportunity given to better themselves. I just hope and want it to be available for them to do that, instead of them being kept down by institutional bias from those who are claiming to care... Like the NAACP.

You are correct about the level of dedication these athletes possessed coming in. I could see the lack of possibilities without basketball in their lives.


I am right on something? Dang, that doesn't happen too often..... I am married!!

Nice to hear about the diversity in your church! By the way, I'm Mexican-American, my wife is Jewish. :smile:

Very Very Interesting!!!

Funny thing is, our church doesn't look or see it as diversity. Simply as being one body in Christ.