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SteelersFever
07-16-2007, 03:34 PM
Title: Steelers' Holmes On-Field/Fantasy Value Rising
Source: Steelers Fever
Date: 7/16/07
Author: Paul Eide

Link: http://www.steelersfever.com/editorials/0735.html

Summary: After the first month of the 2006 season, many Steelers fans felt as though the team had essentially wasted a draft pick by selecting rookie wide receiver Santonio Holmes in the first round. In the first four games, Holmes caught only seven passes for a meager 73 yards with no touchdowns. Holmes looked completely out of sync as a second or third receiver and was consistently outplayed by second year wide out Nate Washington and veteran Cedrick Wilson.

SteelCityMan786
07-16-2007, 04:10 PM
hmmmm to draft holmes, or not draft holmes. That is the question.

19ward86
07-16-2007, 04:46 PM
everyone needs to admit that nobody liked holmes at first, we love him now. we all wanted a guy like chad jackson but we got santonio holmes. thank you Mr. Rooney.

Black@Gold Forever32
07-16-2007, 05:48 PM
Yea I only called for the drafting for Holmes from the jump but I didn't like him at first....lolWhen most was screaming for LenDale I wanted Holmes........

The Duke
07-16-2007, 06:05 PM
I'll be happy if Holmes plays this season like he did towards the end of the season, I only hopes he doesn't drop easy balls

revefsreleets
07-16-2007, 06:11 PM
I loved the pick at first, but I was also one of the people who wanted to cut him after his troubles. I was wrong about that. As an Ohio State fan, I can tell you that Holmes was a clutch receiver, and he caught big catches in big games. That's not going to be a problem.

Preacher
07-16-2007, 06:42 PM
I loved the pick at first, but I was also one of the people who wanted to cut him after his troubles. I was wrong about that. As an Ohio State fan, I can tell you that Holmes was a clutch receiver, and he caught big catches in big games. That's not going to be a problem.


I can understand that...

I also was very interested in what we would do... then when we drafted him, I was excited about the possibility. Then after both his problems... well... I was VERY upset. I wasn't quite ready to cut him yet, but it was getting close.

Now... With maturity and growth, he is positioned to possibly have a very good year!

tony hipchest
07-16-2007, 06:59 PM
i was against drafting ANY wr last year, especially when it became evident that holmes was the clear cut best prospect who would be gone before our pick and we might have to settle/reach for chad jackson or s'noreus "to death" moss. the trade proved to be brilliant seeing that we had a 2nd round grade on a. smith as it was.

i guess i took an opposite appraoch. i started to support the pick more when it seemed the bigger part of the fanbase turned on him and said "cut him", "santurdio", "plaxico II" etc. for nothin more than jaywalking at a block party and asking a un uniformed police officer WTF????

of course i never lost sight that we had the #1 wr coming into the draft.

the foundation is set. now all we can do is hope he takes to hines ward like torry holt did to i. bruce. pure talent will handle the rest.

xXTheSteelKingsXx
07-16-2007, 07:14 PM
Im not totally convinced that Holmes will step up and become the number 1 WR in a few seasons but he has been impressing me and I hope he does reach number 1 reciever ststus.

Preacher
07-16-2007, 07:17 PM
i was against drafting ANY wr last year, especially when it became evident that holmes was the clear cut best prospect who would be gone before our pick and we might have to settle/reach for chad jackson or s'noreus "to death" moss. the trade proved to be brilliant seeing that we had a 2nd round grade on a. smith as it was.

i guess i took an opposite appraoch. i started to support the pick more when it seemed the bigger part of the fanbase turned on him and said "cut him", "santurdio", "plaxico II" etc. for nothin more than jaywalking at a block party and asking a un uniformed police officer WTF????

of course i never lost sight that we had the #1 wr coming into the draft.

the foundation is set. now all we can do is hope he takes to hines ward like torry holt did to i. bruce. pure talent will handle the rest.

I was willing to give him a pass... as the more that came out, the more it seemed that it was a "Crowd Control" charge... if you know what I mean.

It was the second one in as many months that really got to me.

However now, it seems that it those were two blips on a radar that were anomalies... I hope.

The Duke
07-16-2007, 07:19 PM
Im not totally convinced that Holmes will step up and become the number 1 WR in a few seasons but he has been impressing me and I hope he does reach number 1 reciever ststus.

Few receivers show they can be #1 receiver in their 1st seasons, just watch Holmes over the next 2 seasons, he'll prove that when Hines decides to retire he will be able to replace him

Preacher
07-16-2007, 07:25 PM
Few receivers show they can be #1 receiver in their 1st seasons, just watch Holmes over the next 2 seasons, he'll prove that when Hines decides to retire he will be able to replace him

Yep... But we need to be worried about putting someone on his other side...

We definitely need to draft another receiver next year or the year after in the first or second round...

Only problem is, we also need to keep an eye on our LB's still, our CB's if they don't come around, and our OL.

The Duke
07-16-2007, 07:42 PM
Yep... But we need to be worried about putting someone on his other side...

We definitely need to draft another receiver next year or the year after in the first or second round...

Only problem is, we also need to keep an eye on our LB's still, our CB's if they don't come around, and our OL.

I like Nate Washington and all but I don't see him as a #2 receiver so we definitely need to draft another WR soon

ChronoCross
07-16-2007, 07:45 PM
A Lot of people forget Holmes was not in any of the first camps, and that he was at school, by the time he got back from school, Big Ben was hurt. Holmes was behind on the learning curb and only practicing with Batch when he first got back. People wonder why Holmes and Ben never clicked right away - is because he spent little time at all with Ben before season started. As season went on everyone started to see Holmes improve game by game as he got back the learning he lost out because he could not be there at first and no time with Ben. At season end everyone watched Holmes burn are beloved hated bengals for that ending game TD to show off possible what is to come from Ben and Holmes this coming season. There is a lot of people who tag him for his broken routes here and there but give the guy his shot. We did not have the easiest play book in the league at the time to learn. Holmes is now past that learning curve and on track and with even a smaller play book and a healthy Ben to work with, it will be interesting in deed to see how well them two hook up more and more as they jell together.

The Duke
07-16-2007, 07:59 PM
A Lot of people forget Holmes was not in any of the first camps, and that he was at school, by the time he got back from school, Big Ben was hurt. Holmes was behind on the learning curb and only practicing with Batch when he first got back. People wonder why Holmes and Ben never clicked right away - is because he spent little time at all with Ben before season started. As season went on everyone started to see Holmes improve game by game as he got back the learning he lost out because he could not be there at first and no time with Ben. At season end everyone watched Holmes burn are beloved hated bengals for that ending game TD to show off possible what is to come from Ben and Holmes this coming season. There is a lot of people who tag him for his broken routes here and there but give the guy his shot. We did not have the easiest play book in the league at the time to learn. Holmes is now past that learning curve and on track and with even a smaller play book and a healthy Ben to work with, it will be interesting in deed to see how well them two hook up more and more as they jell together.

I had forgotten Holmes didn't have time to practice enough with Ben, they should be ready by now. With Ben healthy this year I'm boldly predicting 1000 yard seasons for both Hines and Holmes, they were both really close last year so it shouldn't be too hard :tt02:

tony hipchest
07-16-2007, 08:00 PM
I like Nate Washington and all but I don't see him as a #2 receiver so we definitely need to draft another WR soonwashington was essentially a rookie last year. how can we be sure so soon? javon walker looked like shit his 1st year on the active roster. he broke out in his 3rd season though.

if rod smith were a young wr in pittsburgh all the fans woulda ran the 2nd year player out of town by now:


.........................................gp.rec.yd s.... ....td
1995 Denver Broncos 16 . 6.. 152 .... 1
1996 Denver Broncos 10 .16. 237 ......2
1997 Denver Broncos 16 . 70 .1180.. 12


as a UDFA, please take note of his breakout season in his 3rd year after being bench fodder the previous 2.

chill people and let time run its course.

The Duke
07-16-2007, 08:08 PM
washington was essentially a rookie last year. how can we be sure so soon? javon walker looked like shit his 1st year on the active roster. he broke out in his 3rd season though.

if rod smith were a young wr in pittsburgh all the fans woulda ran the 2nd year player out of town by now:



as a UDFA, please take note of his breakout season in his 3rd year after being bench fodder the previous 2.

chill people and let time run its course.

Don't get me wrong, I love Washington unlike other people( Crushilla :wave:), and I know he'll be better this season, but if he doesn't do really good I think the steelers will draft a receiver to play next to Holmes, I'm hoping Washington is able to do it though

Preacher
07-16-2007, 08:14 PM
Don't get me wrong, I love Washington unlike other people( Crushilla :wave:), and I know he'll be better this season, but if he doesn't do really good I think the steelers will draft a receiver to play next to Holmes, I'm hoping Washington is able to do it though


Tony...

Your right... time is needed to see if Washington will pan out. However, we are caught in the age old problem. Do we wait and let talent develop over a few years... or do we get someone that obviously has talent (first round or second round pick), but will cost us quite a bit more money.

Luckily we have a couple of years to wait and decide, as I think Ward will be around what... maybe two more years? 3?

Only question is, how long do wait? We need to start grooming someone... and who better then Ward?

ChronoCross
07-16-2007, 08:52 PM
I personally like washington to. He is getting better. If he gets down the easy catch he could easily be a starter for years to come. Consistent catching is the name of the game, and good route running. I also am a person who liked Walter Young who is tall, fast and has great hands, but he has had troubles with his routes, I always wished he would come around but only time would tell. But sometimes we can only wait so long.

We have a good core of WRs who could mature into something special together this year. And if they do we might have a special year.

tony hipchest
07-16-2007, 09:55 PM
Tony...

Your right... time is needed to see if Washington will pan out. However, we are caught in the age old problem. Do we wait and let talent develop over a few years... or do we get someone that obviously has talent (first round or second round pick), but will cost us quite a bit more money.

Luckily we have a couple of years to wait and decide, as I think Ward will be around what... maybe two more years? 3?

Only question is, how long do wait? We need to start grooming someone... and who better then Ward?
the old steelers hung bradshaw in effigy and then boo'ed him the final time he walked off the field with his shoulder absolute mush from all the mistreatment and pain injecting shots he took to try and prolong his career.

alot of todays spoiled steelerfans would be absolutely ruthless with the likes of him, joe green, and even chuck noll.

i think today we see alot of fans who would rather be a fan of "steeler nation" than the steelers themselves.

how much time do we give nate? i say hes got a few years left unless we wanna go back to reaching at straws such as danny farmer, will blackwell, lee mays, or fred gibson.

can i get a "troy edwards" from the congregation????

honestly i think ward has atleast 5 productive years left (5 with the steelers if he can take a paycut like jerome- it may pave his way to the hall)

steelpride12
07-16-2007, 10:39 PM
he was a good player in my eyes except for them dam fumbles on punts/kickoffs geez

paw-n-maul-u
07-16-2007, 11:28 PM
Tony...

Your right... time is needed to see if Washington will pan out. However, we are caught in the age old problem. Do we wait and let talent develop over a few years... or do we get someone that obviously has talent (first round or second round pick), but will cost us quite a bit more money.

Luckily we have a couple of years to wait and decide, as I think Ward will be around what... maybe two more years? 3?

Only question is, how long do wait? We need to start grooming someone... and who better then Ward?

I think we have much bigger needs than WR to worry about. Washington, like Tony said, was basically a rookie. He's come a helluva long way from being an UDFA, and I believe he deserves atleast another 2 years before we start to seriously consider spending an early day 1 pick on a WR. Also, I still wouldn't count out Willie Reid, we are going to need him to step up this year on return duties because I surely don't want our starting split end field punts/kickoffs.

Right about that time (two years from now) we should have a pretty good indication of how the situation with Ward will be dealt.
-Gives washington more time to develop and prove himself. He has all the tools, pretty good speed/height/athleticism ... just needs to work on those hands and some technique.
-And there is no doubt in my mind that Holmes will establish himself among the elite WR's in the league by then.



We have far bigger needs at OL ... Next year's class is loaded with top tackle talent, a couple guys that could have come out this year and gone in the first two rounds. The guard class doesn't look too shabby either. We are going to have some more holes to fill next year (assuming Faneca leaves, as well as Max starks contract running up, and Marvel's (although i doubt he leaves contract starts to become quite expensive ... besides Colon, I haven't been impressed much by the rest of the younger backups, although, we haven't got to see them play much.

I also think we'll add another RB early on to take some of the load off of willie given that barlow/davenport are only signed for 1 and 2 years, respectively.

You also can't help but think that Tomlin will want to add some more players to the defensive side of the ball to eventually transition to a 4-3. A top notch DE, or maybe even a corner given his DB coaching backround (I also think he was Darrelle Revis' secret admirer).

Not to mention we'll eventually need someone at MLB to replace Farrior.

So yeah, baring any catastrophic injuries to Ward/Holmes/Washington ... I don't see us spending anything higher than a third rounder on a WR in the next 2-3 years

Big7BenHOF
07-16-2007, 11:29 PM
He'll always be a good number two or three receiver, but never a good number one in my opinion.

tony hipchest
07-16-2007, 11:46 PM
So yeah, baring any catastrophic injuries to Ward/Holmes/Washington ... I don't see us spending anything higher than a third rounder on a WR in the next 2-3 years great points. and on top of that we should have a little bit more room to make some free agency moves.

to all those who dont remember we only wound up with cedric wilson because tj houshmandzadeh was ignorant enough to turn down more money, a sb ring, and possible pro bowl seasons, to remain chad johnsons shoe shine boy.

i almost feel sorry for the sucker. he hates himself more than the steelers. :busted:

ChronoCross
07-16-2007, 11:48 PM
He'll always be a good number two or three receiver, but never a good number one in my opinion.

Cannot really say that yet for sure. Even tho he started off slow, he put up better numbers then some of the famous number ones of now a day receivers first year.. Like always its best to wait until they mature and then see how they are after 3 years. And it also helps if are QB is on his mark which he was not this last season, even tho Ben showed some sort of his first 2 years rounded out the end he still was not right. Holmes if coached right, has the talent speed and agility to be a number 1 WR. But we will only know that in time.

Preacher
07-16-2007, 11:56 PM
Tony... Paw....

I understand what your both saying... lets break this down a bit more though...

Ward.. Yep, he has a good 5 years left, however, is that 5 years throwing his body around like he does now? I could see him slipping to the number two receiver in a year or two, and that would prolong his career a bit more. BUt then the question comes, will he take the major salary cuts needed to stay in Pittsburgh? That fat portion of his contract is coming up in a year or two.. can we really afford to pay him all of that without a paycut?

Follow me on this. I know that it seems we have some more needs, but if our offense is going to go three and four wide... we need legitimate threats in the third and fourth receiver position. I am more then willing to give Willie Reid the shot and being one of those receivers. I am willing to let Washington have a shot. However, I would like to have our future number 1 and 2 receivers both mentored by Hines before he retires. We see what it is doing for Santonio... his work ethic and the like are coming up because of the standard Ward set (last year's TC report). We see what it did for FWP having the Bus and the Sweatsuit model to help him. So I am a little anxious when it comes to waiting and watching with the WR.

On the Oline.. I think both Colon and Kemo will do well. If Mahan works out, then we only really have one hole to fill. We don't need to spend a first round pick to fill that hole. Second is fine.

Granted, I would like to see a first round pick on a good MLB to replace farrior... but that is only if we remain primarily a 3-4 (which I see us doing).

For some reason, I really have a lot of trust in the Barlow/Davenport backup system. I am not really worred about our running game, though if a RB pops up in the 2nd or 3rd round... I say grab him and take a chance.

Don't forget, I am thinking we have 2 maybe 3 full drafts (depending on Ward's contract issues) to find the right player/determine if we already have him at the WR position.

tony hipchest
07-17-2007, 12:13 AM
Tony... Paw....

I understand what your both saying... lets break this down a bit more though...

Ward.. Yep, he has a good 5 years left, however, is that 5 years throwing his body around like he does now? I could see him slipping to the number two receiver in a year or two, and that would prolong his career a bit more. BUt then the question comes, will he take the major salary cuts needed to stay in Pittsburgh? That fat portion of his contract is coming up in a year or two.. can we really afford to pay him all of that without a paycut?

Follow me on this. . its really as simple as this...

some of wards best years have been when many thought he was #2 to plaxico. perception of whose #1 and whose #2 dont matter. thats why teams like the colts, patriots and rams were able to win championships.

ward has a simple choice. he can remain a steeler by taking a paycut, or we can cut him and offer the same money to players like a. boldin or r. williams when they become free agents.

jerome coulda demanded a trade, or asked for his release and been pounded into the ground in 2003. he woulda shaved a year or 2 offa his career and most likely not won a sb that paved the way to his hall of fame induction. nevemind the fact that i still see his commercials and hes still got a pretty lucrative job in the public eye. these are the choices hines will have to weigh in the near future.

as a former georgia bulldog, maybe he wants to go play in mike vicks kennel. im sure hines will be watching to see how joe horn does. i'll be keeping an eye on how 7th round coulston does as horns replacement.

Galax Steeler
07-17-2007, 03:57 AM
I believe holmes will step up this year and become a reliable reciever.