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Atlanta Dan
08-14-2007, 01:16 PM
Falcons | Vick considering plea agreement
Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:36:42 -0700

ESPN.com reports Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick is considering whether to accept a plea agreement for his alleged role in a dog fighting operation. According to sources, Vick attorneys Larry Woodward and Billy Martin met with federal prosecutor Michael Gill and the investigators on Monday, Aug. 13. The attorneys planned to speak with Vick to see what direction he wants to go in. According to a source close to the investigation, Vick has until Friday, Aug. 17, to make up his mind whether to accept a plea agreement. Otherwise a superseding indictment will be filed and Vick will face at least two more federal dog fighting charges.

The threat to supersede with a RICO charge is the hammer - that puts Vick in another solar system when it comes to potential prison time.

stillers4me
08-14-2007, 04:51 PM
South Carolina Inmate Hits Michael Vick With '$63,000,000,000 Billion Dollar' Lawsuit Alleging Al Qaeda TiesTuesday , August 14, 2007



Embattled NFL quarterback Michael Vick, facing federal charges related to his alleged participation in dogfighting, has been hit with a "$63,000,000,000 billion dollar" lawsuit filed by a South Carolina inmate who alleges the Atlanta Falcons star stole his pit bulls and sold them on eBay to buy "missiles from Iran," FOX News has learned.

Jonathan Lee Riches filed the handwritten complaint over "theft and abuse of my animals" on July 23 in the U.S. District Court in Richmond, Va.

? Click here to read the filing against Vick.(pdf)

Riches alleges that Vick stole two white mixed pit bull dogs from his home in Holiday, Fla., and used them for dogfighting operations in Richmond, Va. The complaint goes on to allege that Vick sold the dogs on eBay and ?used the proceeds to purchase missiles from the Iran government.?

The complaint also alleges that Vick would need those missiles because he pledged allegiance to Al Qaeda in February of this year.

?Michael Vick has to stop physically hurting my feelings and dashing my hopes,? Riches writes in the complaint.

Riches wants $63 billion dollars ?backed by gold and silver ? delivered to the front gates to the Williamsburg Federal Correctional facility in South Carolina. Riches is an inmate at the facility serving out a wire fraud conviction.

FOXNews.com attempted to contact Vick, but neither he nor his spokesman could be reached for comment.

Vick's attorneys, meanwhile, are negotiating a plea deal with federal prosecutors before new dogfighting charges are filed next week, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

? Click here for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution story.

No plea agreement involving Atlanta Falcons quarterback Vick has been filed, according to the court clerk, FOX News has learned.

Vick was accused of being involved in a dogfighting ring called "Bad Newz Kennels" run on property he owned in Surry County, Va. In late July, Vick pleaded not guilty to conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities, and conspiring to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture in a Richmond, Va., court.

Vick could reach an agreement ahead of new charges expected to come down next week after two more of Vick's three co-defendants prepare to enter guilty pleas later this week. By reaching a plea agreement, Vick could avoid any additional charges.








Buying missles from Iran's really going to piss off Goodell. :sofunny:

ChronoCross
08-14-2007, 05:50 PM
LOL.. I just thought you had fun making that up;

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293268,00.html

stillers4me
08-14-2007, 05:52 PM
LOL.. I just thought you had fun making that up;

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293268,00.html

I'm not quite that creative...........I'd have to smoke alot of wacky tobacky to come up with something that bizarre!!!!! :flap:

ChronoCross
08-15-2007, 07:30 PM
DEANGELO HALL COULD TESTIFY by Michael David Smith

PFT Editor Mike Florio has checked in to report that he's hearing from sources with knowledge of the investigation that cornerback DeAngelo Hall could be the Falcons player called to testify if quarterback Michael Vick goes on trial.

We previously noted that CBS 46 in Atlanta is reporting that an unnamed teammate of Vick's, described as "a prominent member of the team," could testify if Vick chooses to face a trial rather than plead guilty.

Vick and Hall grew up in the same area of Virginia, and both attended Virginia Tech. Vick is three years older than Hall, and Hall has described Vick as a role model.

In an interview with the Associated Press shortly after Vick was indicted, Hall said, "Mike became Mike at Virginia Tech. ... Just seeing him in college, seeing him grow and mature as a player, it was a beautiful thing. It’s one of the reasons I decided to go to Tech.”

ChronoCross
08-16-2007, 01:39 AM
VICK OFFER INCLUDES AT LEAST ONE YEAR OF PRISON

The Virginian-Pilot reports that federal prosecutors have offered to Mike Vick a plea deal that will include a recommendation of a sentence of at least one year in prison.

Vick has until 9:00 a.m. EDT on Friday, August 17 to accept the deal, or to face additional charges.

There were reports on Tuesday that Vick's lawyers wanted a deal that would entail less than one year in jail. Earlier on Wednesday, a report emerged that Vick's legal team is divided on whether he should plead guilty. Our take on that specific information leak is that the Vick P.R. machine (to the extent that there even is one) realizes that news of such a split is necessary to support the eventual conclusion that Vick didn't do it.

Dave Forster of the Virginian-Pilot explained on MSNBC moments ago that Vick would be required to plead guilty to the pending conspiracy charges, which include conspiracy to maintain an interstate gambling operation and conspiracy to engage in interstate dog fighting.


What would suck if he only gets 1 year. The first guy to plead out is getting 5 years and he was not even the main guy behind it. Everyone knows Vick is the main guy behind this crap.

ChronoCross
08-16-2007, 01:42 AM
PLAYERS CAN'T CLAIM IGNORANCE OF GAMBLING POLICY

A reader who recently toured the Heinz Field locker rooms tells us that both the home team and the visiting team dressing areas display a notice explaining the NFL's gambling policy.

The reader sent us a photo of the notice. Here it is.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/GamblingNotice.jpg

Several readers have asked us why NFL players can go to casinos, where they presumably do things other than beat each other up. The distinction apparently is that legal casino gambling does not constitute "[a]ssociating with gamblers or with gambling activities in a manner tending to bring discredit to the NFL."

Gambling incident to dog fighting, we suspect, is another story.

Pure PFT.

ChronoCross
08-16-2007, 10:40 PM
VICK JUDGE CLEARS MONDAY DOCKET

In a move that could be a sign that Mike Vick has agreed to a guilty plea that will be entered on Monday, WSB-TV in Atlanta reports that Judge Henry Hudson has cleared his docket for Monday, August 20.

Other hearings had been scheduled for August 20, but are now gone.

Vick reportedly has until 9:00 a.m. on Friday, August 17 to decide whether to formally accept a plea offer. If Vick does not accept the plea, prosecutors are expected to pursue additional charges against Vick before a grand jury that convenes on Monday, presumably based in part on testimony from Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips, both of whom will plead guilty on Friday morning.

tony hipchest
08-16-2007, 10:55 PM
i does seem like vick can get off a little easy with a plea. i guess his 1 year will translate to 6 months with "good time" even on a federal deal?

other rumors include the nfl allowing vick to serve his suspension concurrently with his prison time.

Atlanta Dan
08-16-2007, 10:57 PM
VICK JUDGE CLEARS MONDAY DOCKET

In a move that could be a sign that Mike Vick has agreed to a guilty plea that will be entered on Monday, WSB-TV in Atlanta reports that Judge Henry Hudson has cleared his docket for Monday, August 20.

Other hearings had been scheduled for August 20, but are now gone.

Vick reportedly has until 9:00 a.m. on Friday, August 17 to decide whether to formally accept a plea offer. If Vick does not accept the plea, prosecutors are expected to pursue additional charges against Vick before a grand jury that convenes on Monday, presumably based in part on testimony from Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips, both of whom will plead guilty on Friday morning.

The New York Times is reporting Vick's attorneys are telling him to take the plea deal. He may still be in denial.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/sports/football/17vick.html?ref=sports

Sounds like the advisory sentencing guidelines range is at 12-18 months; Judge Hudson will not be bound by any recommendation by the prosecutors on a sentence. Since Vick will not be sentenced until a presentence report is prepared (meaning sentencing is not until fall) he will not complete any probable sentence until sometime in the fall of 2008. So he is effectively out of the NFL, assuming he ever comes back, until 2009.

With the atrophy of his conditioing in prison I question who would want him, even assumning that team could take the PR hit to sign him after he serves his sentence.





http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/sports/football/17vick.html?ref=sports

fansince'76
08-16-2007, 10:58 PM
How is this guy's NFL career not going to be effectively ended over this? I can't believe that Blank would take him back into the fold in Atlanta. Further, if I'm a GM who wants to try and actually keep his job, I wouldn't go near him with a 10-foot pole.

ChronoCross
08-16-2007, 11:03 PM
How is this guy's NFL career not going to be effectively ended over this? I can't believe that Blank would take him back into the fold in Atlanta. Further, if I'm a GM who wants to try and actually keep his job, I wouldn't go near him with a 10-foot pole.

I do not see him playing another game in the NFL. Once the NFL gives there report to goodell with the gambling and all the other crap, Goodell will hammering him for all the lies, and he will be banned for life. I do not see how they could let him come back.

tony hipchest
08-16-2007, 11:13 PM
With the atrophy of his conditioing in prison I question who would want him, even assumning that team could take the PR hit to sign him after he serves his sentence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/sports/football/17vick.html?ref=sportshttp://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/dumbass_burt_reynolds_dumb_ass.jpg

(i donk know if atrophy and The Longest Yard go "hand in hand" though)

Atlanta Dan
08-16-2007, 11:25 PM
i does seem like vick can get off a little easy with a plea. i guess his 1 year will translate to 6 months with "good time" even on a federal deal?

other rumors include the nfl allowing vick to serve his suspension concurrently with his prison time.

Minimal good time credits in the federal system - a 12 month sentence means you serve 12 months.

Attached is a link to the federal guidelines sentencing table. The advisory sentence is calculated in a range based on offense level (different crimes have different offense levels in the guidelines) and "criminal history" (prior convictions). The offense level and criminal history are calculated in a presentence report prepared by the probation office - both the prosecution and defense can object to the presentence report, with objections resolved by the trial court (subject to appeal).

http://www.miami-criminal-lawyer.net/federal-sentencing-guidelines/2006guid/5a.html

Vick will have criminal history 1 ( no priors). Vick will get his offense level that forms the basis of calculating his advisory guidelines sentence reduced by two levels for "acceptance of responsibility" (aka not going to trial and pleading guilty).

If his offense level hypothetically is less than 16 without a plea, he gets that offense level knocked down 2 levels with a plea. If his offense level is 16 or greater, it gets knocked down 3 levels for acceptance with a plea.

Thus, if Vick's offense level is 15 without a plea, it goes down to 13 with a plea. That is a difference of a range from 18-24 months without a plea to 12-18 months with a plea.

The prosecutors as part of the plea deal presumably will recommend a low end of the range sentence, with the prosecution and defense also presumably and jointly recommending a proposed offense level in the plea agreement. Judge Hudson is not bound by those recommendations and, in fact, has a reputation of sentencing within a range from the middle of the guidelines range and up (e.g 12 -18 month range with Hudson may get you 15 months). A defendant cannot withdraw a plea if the court does not accept a sentencing recommendation unless it is a "binding plea," which most judges will not take (it impinges on their sentencing authority).

tony hipchest
08-16-2007, 11:58 PM
Minimal good time credits in the federal system - a 12 month sentence means you serve 12 months.

. thanks for the info atl dan. i didnt realize the fed guidelines were that much more strict on "good time" policies. it makes sense though. without the good time rewards of a state prosecution only a retard wouldnt accept a plea. with the threat of additional racketteering charges it definitely seems vick is screwed out of beating this rap.

i seriously think that... wait a minute.... is burt wearing a throwback bungles jersey????

WWIIOwheelz
08-17-2007, 12:37 AM
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/dumbass_burt_reynolds_dumb_ass.jpg[/url]

(i donk know if atrophy and The Longest Yard go "hand in hand" though)


*scratches eyeballs with brill0 pad*

Preacher
08-17-2007, 01:31 AM
The local news tonight said that the plea deal has Vick in jail for one year.


HEy Vick


TAKE IT. It is MUCH better then what you would get if convicted.

PisnNapalm
08-17-2007, 06:39 AM
I say ban his ass from the NFL for life.... but other don't see it that way.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20301642/

TommyG
08-17-2007, 06:53 AM
I say this as an owner of three dogs...I would ban Vick for two years, because he has said his goal is to get back to the NFL, and that would hurt him the most. But I think the Pacman should be banned for life. I man is in a wheel chair because he hangs around a bunch of douche bags. He was directly involved in the events that dude shot.

The NFL owners are to blame for continuing to bring these guys back and not send a message that we don't want those type of people on the team. But I guess if you can run really fast and catch a ball you can do anything. You get a slap on the wrist and let back in the league. Ban them all. Sentence Vick to picking up dog crap at dog shows for life.

The Duke
08-17-2007, 06:58 AM
Good. Banning him fom the NFL would be better, but let's see who takes him in next year. Sucks to be you Vick!!

83-Steelers-43
08-17-2007, 07:59 AM
He better jump on that nice little slap on the wrist. What a joke. Hopefully by the time he get's out of the pokey nobody will want the bum.

Atlanta Dan
08-17-2007, 08:12 AM
He better jump on that nice little slap on the wrist. What a joke. Hopefully by the time he get's out of the pokey nobody will want the bum.

A year in the slammer is probably not a slap on the wrist under the applicable sentencing guidelines for Vck's conduct; the prosecutors in the Eastern Distict of Virginia do not have a reputation of giving out sweetheart plea deals. Of course, all the prosecutors can do is recommend a sentence - Judge Hudson makes the call on the actual sentence.

As I stated in another thread, given that Vick presumably will not be sentenced and start serving his sentence until late fall (sentences are not imposed at the time of the plea in the fedeal system), a 1 year prison term (which is no day at the beach) takes him out of the 2007 and 2008 seasons, meaning he is out of the NFL for 2 years no matter what Goodell does.

SteelFist
08-17-2007, 08:16 AM
He would be wise to take that plea. I'm sure his lawyers have convinced him that he doesn't stand a chance if he goes to trial.....unless he acquires "Rankin Fitch" as his jury consultant...LOL

83-Steelers-43
08-17-2007, 08:24 AM
He would be wise to take that plea. I'm sure his lawyers have convinced him that he doesn't stand a chance if he goes to trial.....unless he acquires "Rankin Fitch" as his jury consultant...LOL

Damn, I think I'm going to open up an illegal gambling ring for a few years and make some cash on the side if it only means one year in jail. Although I'm going to leave out grabbing a dog by it's back feet and slamming it to the ground or electrifying it to death after it's defeat in the ring. I'll stick to sports betting.

Enjoy it Mike.

Atlanta Dan
08-17-2007, 08:43 AM
Don Banks of SI.com has a column on Vick's options, if any, after serving his time.

This excerpt from Banks column is another reason I am proud to be a Steelers fan:

"If you have nothing to lose because you're on the hot seat anyway, kind of like the way Jon Gruden collected quarterbacks in Tampa Bay this year, I could see somebody taking a chance on Vick,'' the veteran defensive coordinator said. "The other case is, if you're so insulated in your situation, where you're not going to get criticized, then you might go for it, too. The way an Al Davis or a Jerry Jones doesn't have to answer to anyone, or even a coach like Bill Belichick. He could do it, because he's got that Super Bowl track record.

"If you're not in one of those situations, I don't know if I'm trusting that Michael Vick is the guy to get me over the hump. Some teams couldn't do it just on principle. They wouldn't take the guy for any reason. Dan Rooney in Pittsburgh, the Giants when Wellington Mara was alive, you think they're going to take Vick? They're going to say, 'No way do we want that guy. With his baggage, and where he's been.'''

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/08/16/vick.situation/1.html

When thinking of which owners would take a chance on Vick, Jones & Davis were the 2 names that I also regarded as the most likely suspects.

Atlanta Dan
08-17-2007, 09:09 AM
I have always thought Gregg Easterbrook was long-winded but had valuable insights on the NFL. After reading this I may just quit reading him - unlike most Vick apologists, Easterbrook lacks the excuse that he does not have the intelligence to know any better.

I cannot summarize the most offensive excerpts from Easterbrook's article because virtually every line in the article is offensive. What a sorry pile of liberal rationalizations to excuse evil conduct.

Vick: Villain or scoundrel ... or sympathetic figure

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/070816

One question for Gregg - will the guilty plea change your mind about Vick being the victim here?

ChronoCross
08-17-2007, 09:10 AM
PHILLIPS, PEACE ADMIT TO KILLING DOGS WITH VICK

In a statement of facts signed in connection with the guilty pleas entered on Friday morning by Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips, Peace and Phillips admit to participating with Vick in the killing of eight dogs in April 2007, according to ESPN.

In our view, this means that Virginia authorities now have the green light to proceed with an indictment of Vick on eight counts of animal cruelty. Under Virginia law, he'd face up to 40 years behind bars, in addition to any federal prison term that he serves.

The alleged involvement in killing dogs is, in our view, proof positive that Vick will never be able to return to the NFL.

ESPN also reports that Phillips immediately was taken into custody because he failed a drug test while free on bond.

Atlanta Dan
08-17-2007, 09:16 AM
ESPN also reports that Phillips immediately was taken into custody because he failed a drug test while free on bond.

:sofunny:

These guys are so dumb they would lose a battle of wits with a box of rocks. Extremely bright move to test positive and forfeit your bond.

tony hipchest
08-17-2007, 09:39 AM
I cannot summarize the most offensive excerpts from Easterbrook's article because virtually every line in the article is offensive. What a sorry pile of liberal rationalizations to excuse evil conduct.

Vick: Villain or scoundrel ... or sympathetic figure

?

wow. that article just makes me wanna embrace vick with a hug and tell him "thank you" and "i care".

what a piece of diahrea of the mouth. i think you said it perfectly that it was actually offensive.

blaming everyone from ray lewis to corrupt defense contractors was almost as hilarious as his assertion that one must be gifted or a philosopher to figure out that killing pets is wrong. :dang:

i guess we should all feel sympathy for jeffery dahmer then.

what bullshit.

HometownGal
08-17-2007, 10:02 AM
The Vick jury - as it should be.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/PGHLADYmlg/VickJuryDuty.jpg

Atlanta Dan
08-17-2007, 10:30 AM
Here are links to the signed statements by Phillips (Q") and Peace ("P-Funk"). I guess Easterbrook feels sympathy for these 2 guys as well.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/08/17/qp.statement.of.facts.pdf

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/08/17/peace.statement.of.facts.pdf

Vick is toast and needs to plead. Both Q and P-Funk accuse Vick of killing dogs this past spring (around the time Vick ws lying to Goodell about his involvement) and place him deep into interstate activities that will form the basis for the potential superseding RICO charge.

Let's see if that clown of a local DA brings state charges for animal cruelty.

meanjoecoop
08-17-2007, 01:26 PM
:sofunny::sofunny::sofunny: This guy is hilarious!

Vick faced with unfeasibly large lawsuit

'Michael Vick needs to stop physically hurting my feelings and dashing my hopes'

Andy Bull
Friday August 17, 2007
Guardian Unlimited

The fortunes of Michael Vick, the Atlanta Falcons quarterback, could hardly have got much worse. Currently facing federal charges related to his alleged involvement in dog fighting, Vick has been asked not to attend pre-season training by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell while the league conducts a review of the indictment. If found guilty of the charges against him, he faces up to six years in jail and a $350,000 fine.

After this week's events, however, that fine could be the very least of his worries. Jonathan Lee Riches, an inmate at the Williamsburg Federal Correctional facility in South Carolina, has filed a $63bn lawsuit against Vick to the US district court in Richmond, Virginia. Riches, who is serving time for wire fraud, alleges that Vick stole two white pitbull terriers from him, used them in illegal dogfights and then sold the dogs on eBay.

Riches also alleges that the proceeds from the sale were used by Vick to buy missiles from the Iranian government. The missiles were purchased, Riches alleges, because on February 10 2007, Vick pledged allegiance to al-Qaida.

In the lawsuit, it is also claimed that Vick stole Riches' identity, and used it to sell branded merchandise bearing Riches' name, including shirts and mugs. He ends his claim with the remark: "Michael Vick needs to stop physically hurting my feelings and dashing my hopes."

The $63bn is requested to be "backed by silver and gold" and delivered by UPS to the front gates of the facility. Vick has, as yet, been unavailable for comment.

For a full transcript of the lawsuit, click here.
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/riches_jonathan_file.pdf


http://sport.guardian.co.uk/ussports/story/0,,2151080,00.html

ChronoCross
08-17-2007, 02:37 PM
POINDEXTER SAYS HE'LL PURSUE VICK INDICTMENT

Surry County, Virginia prosecutor Gerald Poindexter tells the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that he intends to seek an indictment of Mike Vick when a grand jury convenes in September.

"The execution of these animals — and the manner in which they were executed — is startlingly offensive and demanding of prosecution," Poindexter said.

With signed statements from Quanis Phillips and Purnell Peace indicating that they, and Vick, participated in the killing of eight dogs in April 2007, all that Poindexter has to do is submit the statements to the grand jury and indictments will flow.

In fact, we're wondering whether the lawyers for Phillips and Peace realized that their clients were admitting to facts that would subject each of them to up to an additional 40 years in prison under Virginia law. Unless the plea deal included a commitment from Poindexter that there will be no state charges against Phillips or Peace, both men have potentially signed away their freedom for a big chunk of their remaining lives.

Still, we don't think that these statements from Phillips and Peace mean that Vick will automatically be indicted. In fact, we wouldn't be surprised to hear Poindexter eventually announce that the grand jury decided that Phillips and Peace were not credible witnesses, and that therefore Vick shouldn't be indicted on animal cruelty charges.

We also wouldn't be surprised, given Poindexter's past handling of this matter, to see quotes from him as early as tomorrow in which he says that he won't be seeking an indictment of Vick.

Atlanta Dan
08-17-2007, 03:08 PM
Here are the links to the P-Funk and Q plea agreements

http://wdbj.images.worldnow.com/images/incoming/PeacePlea.pdf

http://wdbj.images.worldnow.com/images/incoming/PhillipsPlea.pdf

As I assumed, given all the talk about potential sentences of a year, defendants and the Government have agreed in paragraph 2 of the plea agreements to jointly recommend that the sentencing guidelines base offense level for the crime to which a guilty plea has been entered is 15, witha reduction of 2 levels, to offense level 13, for acceptance of responsibility (aka bonus points for pleading guilty rather than going to trial).

With no priors, that puts the guidelines range sentence at 12-18 months. The Government has agreed in paragraph 2 to recommend a sentence at the lowest end of the guidelines range. The Government also reserves the right in paragraph 13 to recommend a downward departure from the guidelines range sentence for defendants "cooperation" (aka rolling over on Vick).

Judge Hudson may have his own ideas about whether a low end sentence is the proper one, and it is his call. At the guilty pleas today Judge Hudson told Q "in your case, there will be an upward departure (in sentencing). There are aggravated circumstances in this case, no doubt about it."

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/17/vickpleas_0817.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Hudson may whack Vick for more than a year even if that is the sentence the prosecutors recommend and since there will be an appeal waiver clause in any plea agreement Vick signs there will be little Vick can do about it.

Indy_Steelers
08-17-2007, 05:36 PM
So what happens to his contract now?

Moonlite37
08-17-2007, 06:07 PM
Dog fighting? Yeah, I'd like to see some of these people stripped down, and placed in a pen with these dogs. Even that would be too good for anyone who abuses animals. Makes me sick.:mad:

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
08-17-2007, 07:24 PM
VICK executed approximately 8 dogs that did not perform well in 'testing' sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road by various methods, including hanging and drowning. All three participated in executing the dogs. PHILLIPS agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK."

Yeah it takes a big man to kill 8 dogs that didn't perform. Does this mean when a*s wipe didn't perform he should have been thrown into the stands for the fans to take care of him?

Michael Vick is a sick f**k.

Atlanta Dan
08-17-2007, 07:31 PM
So what happens to his contract now?

Falcons owner Arthur Blank would not say that he plans to cut embattled quarterback Michael Vick. However, he did say that once all facts are gathered regarding Vick's alleged involvement in a dogfighting ring and the execution of dogs, the team would "move very decisively."

"As facts come out, we will absorb the facts, study the facts, research them and then we'll move very decisively," Blank said before Friday night's preseason game between Atlanta and host Buffalo. "Today's developments are very distressing."

Those developments include the guilty pleas of two co-defendants in a federal dogfighting case, who claimed that Vick financially supported their dogfighting operation and that he personally executed dogs that did not show the willingness to fight.

Also troubling Blank was Virginia Commonwealth Attorney Gerald Poindexter declaring he would pursue state charges against Vick and others for allegedly staging dogfights and executing dogs at a property Vick owned in Surry County, Va.

"Today's two statement of facts by the co-defendants are troubling and very disturbing," Blank said. "It's certainly not what we expected and it's terribly distressing.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/17/blank_0818.html

So today's statements certainly are not what Blank expected? File that away with Vick's attorneys not seeing plea deals for P-Funk and Q coming as examples of very intelligent people using their powers of denial to avoid confronting reality in this case.

If Vick (who unlike Blank is dumber than dirt) still thinks he has a contract with Blank once he pleads he is in more denial than anyone.

fansince'76
08-17-2007, 08:04 PM
The Vick jury - as it should be.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/PGHLADYmlg/VickJuryDuty.jpg

I only see 8 jurors there. I wanna know why Muttley, Huckleberry Hound, Deputy Dawg and Marmaduke aren't on that jury. :chuckle:

tony hipchest
08-17-2007, 08:08 PM
can you clear something up dan? if the fed were to prosecute for animal abuse charges and the state of virgina decide to prosecute on the same charges after a hypothetical plea was struck with the feds, would that be double jeopardy?

although it is all one big crime that was going on you got the actual dogfights and then the animal cruelty for killing the dogs. after that theres the gambling. are the feds restricted to just going after the gambling and dogfighting aspect of it? im thinking since the actual animal abuse happened in virginia it is out of their juristiction which leaves it open for the state and negates "double jeopardy"?

Atlanta Dan
08-17-2007, 09:05 PM
can you clear something up dan? if the fed were to prosecute for animal abuse charges and the state of virgina decide to prosecute on the same charges after a hypothetical plea was struck with the feds, would that be double jeopardy?

although it is all one big crime that was going on you got the actual dogfights and then the animal cruelty for killing the dogs. after that theres the gambling. are the feds restricted to just going after the gambling and dogfighting aspect of it? im thinking since the actual animal abuse happened in virginia it is out of their juristiction which leaves it open for the state and negates "double jeopardy"?

No double jeopardy becuase "dual sovereigns" (state and federal) are prosecuting. Both jurisdictions can prosecute criminally for the same conduct because they are independent governments. Double jeopardy in violation of the Fifth Amendment would occur if you were prosecuted multiple times for the same conduct by the same sovereign..

Best example I can recall is when the feds criminally prosecuted the cops that stomped Rodney King for violating King's civil rights after the Simi Valley state jury in California acquitted the cops.

I also recall one of his Timothy McVeigh's co-conspirators was prosecuted in both state and federal court for blowing up the federal building in Oklahoma City.

As far as criminal charges go, the feds need to hook the conduct to some federal criminal statute. Unlike state statutes, federal regulation of criminal conduct has to either involve a direct federal interest or somehow affect interstate commerce, which is why the pleas keep making a big deal about crossing state lines to fight the dogs. This will plead out, but if a superseding indictment were returned I assume it would include federal RICO, money laundering (where was Vick claiming the cash was going?), and tax evasion (not declaring the gambling winnings as income) charges relating to the gambling.

Haiku_Dirtt
08-18-2007, 01:20 AM
"A man's soul can be judged by the way he treats his dog." Charles Doran

Leaving my capitalist nature for a moment to isolate the least spoken catalyst for the decline of civilization - if it pleases the court - may I enter into evidence...ABUSE.

Major freaking coincidence that both members of Team Vick find/found themselves "looking into the abyss." Well gosh golly. Of course they were inficted very young in life.

The mere fact that the Rainbow Coalition isn't in the makeup trailer getting ready for CNN means - to me - that even they can't stomach what transpired under his alleged arms-length involvement. NOW!!!! THAT'S A SHOCKER!!!

I'm positive Dan that we had a dialogue that addressed Vick's unknown future with the ATL. Essentially the conclusion was less than good. Whoa! But who could have guessed the theatrical value?

So. Let's add to the melodrama.

We have.... Vick butchering souls as if they were less then him... the NBA, the credit markets, and the hedge fund industry falling faster than Bud Foxx...the dollar as popular as Julia Robert's brother (stolen from South Park)...a democracy that's been entirely hijacked by one politcal party called Republicans and Democrats.. a SuperFerry beginning interisland service this month.

The crash may not wait until October this time. But I really dig Tomlin's style. He's a WINNER.

"Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend, and inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -- Groucho Marx.

P.S. Anyone feeling overly sympathetic to Vick please feel free to ask your doctor for lithium. I'd prefer that you're medicated into submission.

SteelFist
08-18-2007, 01:22 AM
The Vick jury - as it should be.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/PGHLADYmlg/VickJuryDuty.jpg


NICE!! :toofunny:

Haiku_Dirtt
08-18-2007, 01:26 AM
NICE!! :toofunny:

If it were only true...

SteelCityMan786
08-18-2007, 07:31 AM
If it were only true...

He'd be found guilty.

TackleMeBen
08-20-2007, 01:32 PM
according to espn news vick just took the plea deal and is pleading guilty to all the charges.

ChronoCross
08-20-2007, 01:40 PM
wrong url... oops

ChronoCross
08-20-2007, 01:42 PM
Now Falcons can cut him before season starts and, go after 28mil in bonus money, he probably does not have that much left, but he has time in prison to figure that out.

PisnNapalm
08-20-2007, 01:50 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20350573/

Ron Mexico going to strike a deal.

I wonder how much time he'll do?

meanjoecoop
08-20-2007, 01:53 PM
Now Falcons can cut him before season starts and, go after 28mil in bonus money, he probably does not have that much left, but he has time in prison to figure that out.

I had a dog that broke his leg trying to climb a chain link fence. I thought the $400 bucks it cost me was expensive. :dang:

Those are gonna be some expensive pets. :wink02:

TackleMeBen
08-20-2007, 01:53 PM
they said the feds were asking 18-36 months of prison time. vick atty's wanted a year or less. they do say that you serve all your time when in federal prison so sounds like he is up the creek without a paddle now.

rbryan
08-20-2007, 01:56 PM
I'll bet you dollars to donuts he's the Raiders backup in two years

meanjoecoop
08-20-2007, 01:57 PM
Now NFL network is saying 10-12 months and that we probably wont know for sure until Monday when the plea is entered.

TackleMeBen
08-20-2007, 02:00 PM
he took this plea so he didnt have to face 20 yrs in the pokey for the rico charges the feds were going to bring

Jman
08-20-2007, 02:00 PM
You knew it was coming...

meanjoecoop
08-20-2007, 02:01 PM
I'll bet you dollars to donuts he's the Raiders backup in two years

:flap: What about Culpepper?

rbryan
08-20-2007, 02:02 PM
He'll be the 3rd stringer. lol

TackleMeBen
08-20-2007, 02:03 PM
all i have to say is vick better get some soap on a rope....lol..

meanjoecoop
08-20-2007, 02:04 PM
He'll be the 3rd stringer. lol

Will JaMarcus Russell be signed by then?

rbryan
08-20-2007, 02:06 PM
Actually he'll be cut already by then. I'm thinking the starter will be whoever the first pick of the draft is in 09

fansince'76
08-20-2007, 02:07 PM
Any possible cap relief for the Falcons?

rbryan
08-20-2007, 02:09 PM
No cap relieve, but I hear theres gonna be a new Home Depot going up on every corner with Arthurs new found windfall of cash

TackleMeBen
08-20-2007, 02:10 PM
Will JaMarcus Russell be signed by then?

maybe they can fight for the starting job in 2010 when vick is back ..lol

rbryan
08-20-2007, 02:12 PM
Wait a minute I forgot theres already a new Home Depot going up on every corner. I guess this means nothing for the Falcons except now they can move on with a ligitimate QB that might actually win something in the ATL

Jman
08-20-2007, 02:15 PM
Who is going to take a 30 yr old QB who hasn't played for ..... Yea....

TackleMeBen
08-20-2007, 02:34 PM
the judge could sentence him to the max of 5 yrs regardless of what the plea says.
and that the plea cant be appealed.

rbryan
08-20-2007, 02:39 PM
Trust me he wouldn't have made a deal unless it was iron clad. He'll spend a year at some country club jail and be free to go sign with the Raiders. I can't imagine another franchise that could get away with the PR hit of giving this clown another shot.

Anything goes with Big Al

tony hipchest
08-20-2007, 02:47 PM
he can replace mcnair. ray can show him the error of his ways and introduce him to the path to God. i wonder if mike goes tyson and converts to islam and tattoos his face. isnt it tyson who has the pit bull tats next to mao te sung or something.

TackleMeBen
08-20-2007, 02:52 PM
he can request the same one that paris hilton went too..lol.. they have no rules it seems..lol

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 02:53 PM
:cheers: Justice is being served.

With regard to a potential sentence, the talk of the prosecutors offering a plea with a potential sentencing range of 18-36 months is too broad a range.

As far as how to guess the potential sentence, the plea deals for "P-Funk" and "Q" last Friday provided for a gross offense level of 15, which was reduced by 2 levels, to offense level 13, for "acceptance of responsibility" (bonus points for pleading guilty). With no priors, that results in a potential sentencing range of 12-18 months.

Vick might get that deal, but the pleas to date have stated Vick bankrolled the operation. If so, Vick could be facing an enhancement of his offense level for that conduct under the "aggravating role" provisions of the Guidelines, which provide:

?3B1.1. Aggravating Role
Based on the defendant’s role in the offense, increase the offense level as follows:
(a) If the defendant was an organizer or leader of a criminal activity that involved
five or more participants or was otherwise extensive, increase by 4 levels.
(b) If the defendant was a manager or supervisor (but not an organizer or leader) and
the criminal activity involved five or more participants or was otherwise
extensive, increase by 3 levels.
(c) If the defendant was an organizer, leader, manager, or supervisor in any criminal
activity other than described in (a) or (b), increase by 2 levels.

As to whether someone is an organizer or just a manager, the Guidelines in the definitions section for ?3B1.1. state that:

In distinguishing a leadership and organizational role from one of mere management or
supervision, titles such as "kingpin" or "boss" are not controlling. Factors the court should
consider include the exercise of decision making authority, the nature of participation in the
commission of the offense, the recruitment of accomplices, the claimed right to a larger share
of the fruits of the crime, the degree of participation in planning or organizing the offense, the
nature and scope of the illegal activity, and the degree of control and authority exercised over
others. There can, of course, be more than one person who qualifies as a leader or organizer
of a criminal association or conspiracy. This adjustment does not apply to a defendant who
merely suggests committing the offense.

So if Vick is found to have been a manager of criminal activity involving 5 or more people (3 co-defendants and the 4 CWs mentioned in the indictment), he could get a 3 point enhancement, which takes his gross offense level up from 15 to 18.

If Vick gets any enhancement for role in the offense, it probably will take his gross offense level above 16. If so, he will get a 3 rather than 2 point reduction for "acceptance of responsibility" for pleading guilty, as stated in this excerpt from the Guidelines:

?3E1.1. Acceptance of Responsibility
(a) If the defendant clearly demonstrates acceptance of responsibility for his offense,
decrease the offense level by 2 levels.
(b) If the defendant qualifies for a decrease under subsection (a), the offense level
determined prior to the operation of subsection (a) is level 16 or greater, and upon
motion of the government stating that the defendant has assisted authorities in the
investigation or prosecution of his own misconduct by timely notifying
authorities of his intention to enter a plea of guilty, thereby permitting the
government to avoid preparing for trial and permitting the government and the
court to allocate their resources efficiently, decrease the offense level by 1
additional level.

So with a gross offense level of 18, reduced for "acceptance of responsibility" to a net offense level of 15, Vick faces a sentencing range of 18-24 months with no priors (see linked chart below)

http://www.miami-criminal-lawyer.net...06guid/5a.html

The prosecutors will recommend a low end sentence within that range but Judge Hudson has the final say and he: 1) has a reputation of not sentencing at the low end of the applicable Guidelines range; and 2) at the plea hearings last Friday said he thought this case presented aggravating circumstances that justified an increased sentence.

Jman
08-20-2007, 02:58 PM
AD...You a lawyer?

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 03:00 PM
AD...You a lawyer?

Yep

The Duke
08-20-2007, 03:09 PM
Great for you Michael, you are honest about what you did 4 months later. Congrats, you're forgiven by me. *Sarcasm*
Seriously, this guy just needs to get banned from the NFL

TackleMeBen
08-20-2007, 03:14 PM
according to terrence moore a writer for the AJC said that most of the fans said they wont be purchasing tickets to games this season b/c of the way the ownership did michael vick. also 52% of the falcons season ticket holders are africian american

fansince'76
08-20-2007, 03:21 PM
according to terrence moore a writer for the AJC said that most of the fans said they wont be purchasing tickets to games this season b/c of the way the ownership did michael vick. also 52% of the falcons season ticket holders are africian american

It wouldn't happen to have anything to do with the fact that the Falcons are now going to completely blow this season, would it?

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 03:33 PM
according to terrence moore a writer for the AJC said that most of the fans said they wont be purchasing tickets to games this season b/c of the way the ownership did michael vick. also 52% of the falcons season ticket holders are africian american

I doubt that 52% figure but have no doubt the fun & games are just beginning in Atlanta on the racial animosity from this.

There are 2 sports talk stations in ATL; 680 The Fan is the SEC/northside Atlanta (whites live north of downtown in ATL and blacks live south of downtown) demographic - their afternoon drivetime team is former UGA QB Buck Belue and John Kincaid (who does Sunday morning on ESPN Radio). 790 The Zone has broadcast shows with primarily Northeast announcers but several years ago went with "The Two Live Stews" in afternoon drivetime - they are Ryan & Doug Stewart (one is former DB with the Detroit Lions), who were written up in SI because of black sportstalk show hosts being the exception.

Take a guess on how the audiences for the 2 shows have interpreted Vick's situation. This afternoon on The Two Live Stews the Vick plea is being described as "White Monday."

NM

Jman
08-20-2007, 03:34 PM
That's cool AD. Good to learn something about someone on here.

As for the Falcons, perhaps Joey can bail 'em out? Yea you're right, I didn't think so either.

TackleMeBen
08-20-2007, 03:37 PM
It wouldn't happen to have anything to do with the fact that the Falcons are now going to completely blow this season, would it?
'76 i dont know.. i would probably say YES!!! i mean they do have joey harrington as the starting qb...

HometownGal
08-20-2007, 03:39 PM
Take a guess on how the audiences for the 2 shows have interpreted Vick's situation. This afternoon on The Two Live Stews the Vick plea is being described as "White Monday."

NM

That's not a hard one to figure out. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Michael Vick is DONE in the NFL - stick a fork in his hiney.

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 03:39 PM
It wouldn't happen to have anything to do with the fact that the Falcons are now going to completely blow this season, would it?

When I went to the Steelers game at the Georgia Dome last fall the crowd was at least 25% Steelers fans.

Atlanta is a lousy pro sports town (the passion here is SEC football) and the Falcons sold out consistently only after Vick arrived because he admittedly was entertaining and was a black superstar.

It takes more than just winning for a team to succeed in ATL (the Braves won the division 14 years straight and had attendance decline every year after 1997).

There will be a segment of the fan base that will turn on the Falcons for failing to "support" Vick.

fansince'76
08-20-2007, 03:42 PM
There will be a segment of the fan base that will turn on the Falcons for failing to "support" Vick.

How, pray tell, were the Falcons supposed to "support" Vick? Just wondering - it helps to have someone right there "on the ground," so to speak, to get a better pulse of the situation.

TackleMeBen
08-20-2007, 03:44 PM
I doubt that 52% figure but have no doubt the fun & games are just beginning in Atlanta on the racial animosity from this.

There are 2 sports talk stations in ATL; 680 The Fan is the SEC/northside Atlanta (whites live north of downtown in ATL and blacks live south of downtown) demographic - their afternoon drivetime team is former UGA QB Buck Belue and John Kincaid (who does Sunday morning on ESPN Radio). 790 The Zone has broadcast shows with primarily Northeast announcers but several years ago went with "The Two Live Stews" in afternoon drivetime - they are Ryan & Doug Stewart (one is former DB with the Detroit Lions), who were written up in SI because of black sportstalk show hosts being the exception.

Take a guess on how the audiences for the 2 shows have interpreted Vick's situation. This afternoon on The Two Live Stews the Vick plea is being described as "White Monday."

NM

that figure was given by moore, whether its correct or not i dont know. i use to live in atlanta so i know about the division in the city. i use to work out in alpharetta.

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 03:50 PM
How, pray tell, were the Falcons supposed to "support" Vick? Just wondering - it helps to have someone right there "on the ground," so to speak, to get a better pulse of the situation.

Rational thought gets checked at the door for folks making that argument (leaving aside the fact that the franchise indulged Vick and rationalized everything he did until the indictment) but the argument was that Mike said he did not do it so the franchise should say Mike did not do it and compare the US Attorney's Office in the ED VA to Duke lacrosse prosecutor Mike Nifong whenever possible becuase, after all, "it's only dogs."

The link to this photo (post-indictment) pretty much sums up that mindset.

http://media.funlol.com/content/img/michael-vick-is-dog-gone-innocent.jpg

HometownGal
08-20-2007, 03:56 PM
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/images/cartoon081105.jpg

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 03:58 PM
that figure was given by moore, whether its correct or not i dont know. i use to live in atlanta so i know about the division in the city. i use to work out in alpharetta.

As a former Atlanta resident, if you read the AJC you may recall Terence Moore is a fool and not bashful about playing the race card. To Terence's credit, even he bailed on Vick this past spring.

meanjoecoop
08-20-2007, 04:34 PM
:sofunny: :flap: :sofunny: :flap:

Help protect the pet population...

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/07/29/amd_vick_protest.jpg

SteelDogFan
08-20-2007, 05:08 PM
I know how well feel about what has been done "PLEASE do not disate that here, The question is do you truley believe M. Vick will never play in the NFL again? I know you have to state what happened to make your case, so be it. But we do not need a debate on how bad it is.

My Take: I am a NFL fan. Even though I hate to say it, if M. Vick only goes to prison for 1-2 years I think he will play in the NFL again. I BASE THIS ON ONLY ONE THING MONEY!!! and thats it. I hope he doesn't but I think he will. Exspecially if his suspension is in parallel with his jail sentence. If he gets out in 2 years some team will pick him up. Its sad to say but I think some team will give him a shot.

I dont think teams will be knocking his door down but if a team like the detroit lions or the tamba bey bucks, can get Vick at a bargin price I think they will. Just my thoughts. The NFL does not need Vick, but his talent is unique and there are alot of teams that would like to have a M. Vick on their team.

fansince'76
08-20-2007, 05:23 PM
I say no - he pleaded guilty. Goodell needs to do the right thing and ban him for life at this point.

tony hipchest
08-20-2007, 05:47 PM
"it's only dogs."

The link to this photo (post-indictment) pretty much sums up that mindset.

http://media.funlol.com/content/img/michael-vick-is-dog-gone-innocent.jpg i think i saw that same guy at the slow speed white bronco chase with a sign that said "run o.j. run".

he must be like the rainbow man "john 3:16" guy.

MasterOfPuppets
08-20-2007, 05:49 PM
:huh: where's tamba bey ? is that anywhere near jamaica?

Big D
08-20-2007, 06:02 PM
what a shame. I would love to hang him in my back yard and finish him off by drowning him in a 5 gallon bucket

The Duke
08-20-2007, 06:14 PM
what a shame. I would love to hang him in my back yard and finish him off by drowning him in a 5 gallon bucket

Dude.....that wouldn't be enough :smile:

Big D
08-20-2007, 06:15 PM
Dude.....that wouldn't be enough :smile:

you are right. I'll have to body slam him a couple times, or maybe electricute him

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 06:18 PM
i think i saw that same guy at the slow speed white bronco chase with a sign that said "run o.j. run".

he must be like the rainbow man "john 3:16" guy.

It's an ATL thing

Big D
08-20-2007, 06:19 PM
It's an ATL thing

I havent been around here lately dan. how do atlanta falcon fans feel about this. I have heard on espn radio that alot of fans dont see what the big deal is. is that the truth?

The Duke
08-20-2007, 06:20 PM
you are right. I'll have to body slam him a couple times, or maybe electricute him

Now you're talking :thumbsup:

HometownGal
08-20-2007, 06:35 PM
I know how well feel about what has been done "PLEASE do not disate that here, The question is do you truley believe M. Vick will never play in the NFL again? I know you have to state what happened to make your case, so be it. But we do not need a debate on how bad it is.

My Take: I am a NFL fan. Even though I hate to say it, if M. Vick only goes to prison for 1-2 years I think he will play in the NFL again. I BASE THIS ON ONLY ONE THING MONEY!!! and thats it. I hope he doesn't but I think he will. Exspecially if his suspension is in parallel with his jail sentence. If he gets out in 2 years some team will pick him up. Its sad to say but I think some team will give him a shot.

I dont think teams will be knocking his door down but if a team like the detroit lions or the tamba bey bucks, can get Vick at a bargin price I think they will. Just my thoughts. The NFL does not need Vick, but his talent is unique and there are alot of teams that would like to have a M. Vick on their team.

This is a board of opinion and debate in case you hadn't noticed. :wink02:

My Take: I am also an NFL fan. I have no hesitancy in stating that imho, Michael Vick is a poor excuse of a human being and a COWARD. Any human being who finds thrill and fulfillment in watching two dogs maim and/or kill each other needs to be hung by his raisin sized balls. I put that disease infested PIG in the same sewer as I put those who abuse their spouses and molest children. Personally, I think the SOB should be put in a cage and have that matted head of his held under a trough of water while he has a live wire stuck up his hiney.:pissed:

No team in the NFL that has any class, dignity and pride would sign that piece of dog dung. The public outcry from their fanbase would be off the charts and I don't believe any NFL owner is going to risk pissing off or losing the faithful who line their pockets. In addition - other than the few players who have publicly stuck up for Vick - what NFL player in their right mind would want that pathetic scumbag as a teammate?

What talent? Michael Vick has to be the most OVERRATED player to (dis) grace the NFL in years. Kordumbell had more sheer QB talent than Vick and that's saying a lot.

Hottest item on the net right now? May I present - the Michael Vick chew toy.

http://www.product-reviews.net/wp-content/userimages/2007/08/vick.jpg

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 06:50 PM
I havent been around here lately dan. how do atlanta falcon fans feel about this. I have heard on espn radio that alot of fans dont see what the big deal is. is that the truth?

Virtually everything in ATL of any significance breaks down along racial lines (e.g. - the former mayor was a multiple felon but his prosecution by the local Feds was alleged to be racially motivated; if you were not happy when backup QB Matt Schaub was traded to Houston you are a racist).

The overwhelming majority of whites assumed from the beginning Vick was guilty, but with regard to blacks the initial split was 50/50, with a significant minority now retreating to the arguments: 1) "its only dogs" and not worth prosecuting; 2) the judicial system has it in for black men; and 3) The Man will always try to tear down black heroes. That in turn involves a fundamental distrust of the U.S. judicial system by many sincere black citizens that I admit I cannot grasp given both my race and that working in that system is my day job.

If this happened after the 2004 season when the Falcons were coming off a NFC championship appearance I cynically recognize Vick would have had much greater support from all segments of the fan base.

I further admit I thought the Mike Vick Experience was more flash than substance for years (having been burned by the Kordell Stewart Experience) and had no emotional investment in him as his career went into a death spiral over the last several years.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-20-2007, 08:06 PM
And with their first round pick in the 2008 NFL Draft, the Atlanta Falcons take Briam Brohm, Quarterback Loisville.

It makes perfect sense. Brohm already has a relationship with the coach and knows the system that Petrino runs.

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 08:12 PM
And with their first round pick in the 2008 NFL Draft, the Atlanta Falcons take Briam Brohm, Quarterback Loisville.

It makes perfect sense. Brohm already has a relationship with the coach and knows the system that Petrino runs.

That is pretty much the game plan on sports talk here - the Falcons are definitely in the hunt for a top five pick

xXTheSteelKingsXx
08-20-2007, 08:15 PM
That is pretty much the game plan on sports talk here - the Falcons are definitely in the hunt for a top five pick

So then could we expect some tanking this season or are they gonna try to make a trade near draft time?

Then again under Joey Harrington a top 5 pick may be closer than I think.

Preacher
08-20-2007, 08:16 PM
That is pretty much the game plan on sports talk here - the Falcons are definitely in the hunt for a top five pick

And would make all the sense in the world.

I wonder what they are thinking about he Schaub trade now?

tony hipchest
08-20-2007, 08:22 PM
And would make all the sense in the world.

I wonder what they are thinking about he Schaub trade now?the shcaub trade gives them extra ammo to move up in the draft next year assuming they catch lightning in a bottle and win more than 4 games.

Preacher
08-20-2007, 08:26 PM
the shcaub trade gives them extra ammo to move up in the draft next year assuming they catch lightning in a bottle and win more than 4 games.

True. But dang... from what they had to what they have?

It would drive us nuts!

Then again, we wouldn't have a person like that.

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 08:28 PM
And would make all the sense in the world.

I wonder what they are thinking about he Schaub trade now?

In their defense with Schaub, they could not afford to resign him and keep Vick as well this season and were stuck with Vick's cap hit if they turned him loose after 2007

A $130m million contract in December 2004 based on winning 1 playoff game in Green Bay in 2002 (signed before Vick won another playoff game in the 2004 playoffs) was indefensible.

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 08:31 PM
True. But dang... from what they had to what they have?

It would drive us nuts!

Then again, we wouldn't have a person like that.

Three words - Ernie "Arrowhead" Holmes

Ernie was in many ways one of my favorite 70s Steelers (I was in my late teens/early 20s when he was with the team) but the guy shot a cop in the summer of '73 (did not miss a game - those were the days) and was a known coke head

As Mike Wagner said in the '75 Steelers "America's Game" program, Ernie was a player whom opposing players literally were afraid of.

TackleMeBen
08-20-2007, 08:50 PM
As a former Atlanta resident, if you read the AJC you may recall Terence Moore is a fool and not bashful about playing the race card. To Terence's credit, even he bailed on Vick this past spring.
well i was smart enough not to read the Atlanta Urinal and Constipation (thank you sean hannity for that one :wink02:)

at least he was smart enough to know when to get off the ship...

Preacher
08-20-2007, 09:15 PM
Three words - Ernie "Arrowhead" Holmes

Ernie was in many ways one of my favorite 70s Steelers (I was in my late teens/early 20s when he was with the team) but the guy shot a cop in the summer of '73 (did not miss a game - those were the days) and was a known coke head

As Mike Wagner said in the '75 Steelers "America's Game" program, Ernie was a player whom opposing players literally were afraid of.


Yeah...

But in the early 70's... The Chief was still wondering how he got a coach that was better at coaching then picking the horses!!!

A bit of a different era between then and now.

Big D
08-21-2007, 07:12 AM
This is a board of opinion and debate in case you hadn't noticed. :wink02:

My Take: I am also an NFL fan. I have no hesitancy in stating that imho, Michael Vick is a poor excuse of a human being and a COWARD. Any human being who finds thrill and fulfillment in watching two dogs maim and/or kill each other needs to be hung by his raisin sized balls. I put that disease infested PIG in the same sewer as I put those who abuse their spouses and molest children. Personally, I think the SOB should be put in a cage and have that matted head of his held under a trough of water while he has a live wire stuck up his hiney.:pissed:

No team in the NFL that has any class, dignity and pride would sign that piece of dog dung. The public outcry from their fanbase would be off the charts and I don't believe any NFL owner is going to risk pissing off or losing the faithful who line their pockets. In addition - other than the few players who have publicly stuck up for Vick - what NFL player in their right mind would want that pathetic scumbag as a teammate?

What talent? Michael Vick has to be the most OVERRATED player to (dis) grace the NFL in years. Kordumbell had more sheer QB talent than Vick and that's saying a lot.

Hottest item on the net right now? May I present - the Michael Vick chew toy.

http://www.product-reviews.net/wp-content/userimages/2007/08/vick.jpg

that team that will sign vick without class, dignity and pride will be the oakland raiders

Big D
08-21-2007, 07:15 AM
Virtually everything in ATL of any significance breaks down along racial lines (e.g. - the former mayor was a multiple felon but his prosecution by the local Feds was alleged to be racially motivated; if you were not happy when backup QB Matt Schaub was traded to Houston you are a racist).

The overwhelming majority of whites assumed from the beginning Vick was guilty, but with regard to blacks the initial split was 50/50, with a significant minority now retreating to the arguments: 1) "its only dogs" and not worth prosecuting; 2) the judicial system has it in for black men; and 3) The Man will always try to tear down black heroes. That in turn involves a fundamental distrust of the U.S. judicial system by many sincere black citizens that I admit I cannot grasp given both my race and that working in that system is my day job.

If this happened after the 2004 season when the Falcons were coming off a NFC championship appearance I cynically recognize Vick would have had much greater support from all segments of the fan base.

I further admit I thought the Mike Vick Experience was more flash than substance for years (having been burned by the Kordell Stewart Experience) and had no emotional investment in him as his career went into a death spiral over the last several years.


Fans that were disapointed in the fact that the falcons traded matt schaub arent racist they care and know what's better for their team. It's not a black or white thing. Can anyone name me one running qb to win a super bowl? Schaub would have stood out in the petrino offense. You have to wonder how much heat mckay will take for trading schaub now.

Atlanta Dan
08-21-2007, 08:54 AM
I have criticized Deion, Emmitt Smith, and McNabb for their ignorant comments regarding Vick, so even though it hits closer to home and he apparently is a good guy, shame on Larry Foote for this ignorant statement.

Linebacker Larry Foote had mixed feelings about the news regarding Vick.

"It's a terrible, terrible situation. I hope he learns his lesson," Foote said. "But at the same time, I hope they don't throw the book at him."

Foote said he hopes Vick gets some leniency because he was involved with something that, while illegal, has been culturally ingrained in a certain part of society.

"The sad thing is, growin up in the 'hood, they think dog fighting is harmless," said Foote, who grew up in Detroit, "But it's a big issue, and people have to be aware of it."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_523186.html

The idea that you get a "cultural deprivation" discount in sentencing because your crew engages in heinous acts on a regular basis is nonsense. I can only assume Foote thinks the same standard should apply to sentences for drug-dealing and random murder, since those practices also are a standard feature of "growin' up in the hood."

Atlanta Dan
08-21-2007, 09:47 AM
Another article on the toxic nature of opinions on Vick in Atlanta

Fans at Playmakers Barber Shop in Midtown said they still support Vick, because they feel he is innocent, and that he is a victim of a racist judicial system.:dang:

"It's bad. I don't condone it at all, but the punishment is too severe, (they?re ruining) a man's career," said barber Dontrell Mapp.

Black civil rights leaders said Vick should be given one more chance.

"This is what we look for, for people to take a stand for what is right and admit they made a mistake," said Charles Steele, president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.

Vick supporters will rally again Monday night, before the Atlanta Falcons? preseason game with the Cincinnati Bengals.

http://www.cbs46.com/news/13938060/detail.html

So copping a plea deal only after your 3 co-defendants have flipped and you are staring down the barrel of a superseding indictment with a RICO charge is "taking a stand for what is right"?:toofunny:

Will be interested to see how you rally in support of someone's innocence the evening after that person enters a guilty plea to felony charges.

Big D
08-21-2007, 10:14 AM
Another article on the toxic nature of opinions on Vick in Atlanta

Fans at Playmakers Barber Shop in Midtown said they still support Vick, because they feel he is innocent, and that he is a victim of a racist judicial system.:dang:

"It's bad. I don't condone it at all, but the punishment is too severe, (they?re ruining) a man's career," said barber Dontrell Mapp.

Black civil rights leaders said Vick should be given one more chance.

"This is what we look for, for people to take a stand for what is right and admit they made a mistake," said Charles Steele, president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.

Vick supporters will rally again Monday night, before the Atlanta Falcons? preseason game with the Cincinnati Bengals.

http://www.cbs46.com/news/13938060/detail.html

So copping a plea deal only after your 3 co-defendants have flipped and you are staring down the barrel of a superseding indictment with a RICO charge is "taking a stand for what is right"?:toofunny:

Will be interested to see how you rally in support of someone's innocence the evening after that person enters a guilty plea to felony charges.

how in the hell do can people still say it's racial. what a crock of bull sh!t. he has admitted guilt. My wife and I run a rescue shelter for dogs and the more I hear i'm outraged. I think vick should get one year of jail for each dog he has killed. I"m so sick of this guy. He is mentally sick. Who's more insane ted bundy or michael vick.

X-Terminator
08-21-2007, 10:32 AM
If you need any more proof for why black athletes and young black people in general are the way they are, feeling as if they can do whatever they want without any repercussions, all you have to do is read the last two articles. No matter what they do, no matter how wrong or illegal it is, it's always someone else's fault or it's racist.

It f'ing makes me sick.

Big D
08-21-2007, 10:50 AM
If you need any more proof for why black athletes and young black people in general are the way they are, feeling as if they can do whatever they want without any repercussions, all you have to do is read the last two articles. No matter what they do, no matter how wrong or illegal it is, it's always someone else's fault or it's racist.

It f'ing makes me sick.

i'm sure this wont help much. listening to espn radio. Emailer says the nfl wouldnt be making as big of a deal about this if it were peyton manning.

tony hipchest
08-21-2007, 11:09 AM
i'm sure this wont help much. listening to espn radio. Emailer says the nfl wouldnt be making as big of a deal about this if it were peyton manning.it would be a bigger deal. it would be headline news world wide if peyton proved to be as retarded and twisted as vick. vick pretty much has the luxory that acting like a moron thug is almost expected of him.

Big D
08-21-2007, 11:10 AM
it would be a bigger deal. it would be headline news world wide if peyton proved to be as retarded and twisted as vick. vick pretty much has the luxory that acting like a moron thug is almost expected of him.

do you think when vick is eligible to play again he will try to come back under a new idenity. Ron mexico perhaps?

X-Terminator
08-21-2007, 11:17 AM
i'm sure this wont help much. listening to espn radio. Emailer says the nfl wouldnt be making as big of a deal about this if it were peyton manning.

Which, of course, is complete bullshit. But then again, this is the mentality of your average Vick supporter. Nevermind that what he did was CRUEL and ILLEGAL - it's "the man keeping him down."

I couldn't say what I really wanted to say, because I'd have to ban myself. But making lame-ass excuses for people who break the law just pisses me off.

Atlanta Dan
08-21-2007, 11:24 AM
Although he was still claiming he had not made up his mind on Vick having done it as late as last week, Michael Wilbon has some good thoughts (as usual) on the subject: Some excerpts and a link.

Brought Down By Arrogance

You wonder if the people who unabashedly apologize for Michael Vick, particularly in and around Atlanta, will see Vick for what he is, for what he's been, or whether they'll continue to give him the kind of cover that allows his brand of arrogance to thrive. You wonder how many of them will come to the conclusion most of us have, that if Vick really did what his co-conspirators said and drowned dogs after trying unsuccessfully to hang them, he's pretty much scum-of-the-earth material....

Like most people who are arrogant but not particularly smart, Vick overplayed his hand. To get back into pro football -- and there's no guarantee -- Vick is going to have to repeatedly and convincingly demonstrate a level of humility I doubt he's felt a single day in his life./...

Of course, Vick has never been any good at these things. He's never been lovable, never been charming or PR savvy. He's rarely extended himself or been engaging publicly. But that's where the rehabilitation of his reputation begins, with doing all the things he thought previously were beneath him.

If he just remains the same old Michael Vick, he's got no chance.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/20/AR2007082001879.html?hpid=topnews

fansince'76
08-21-2007, 11:43 AM
Not to change the subject, but I have been discussing this issue frequently with a coworker of mine and he feels there is a racist double standard as Rick Tocchet, ex-NHL player and current assistant coach for the Phoenix Coyotes has recently pleaded guilty to running an illegal sports gambling ring and looks like he will only get probation - I'd like to know what folks here think about it. Personally, I think it's apples and oranges - here's an excerpt of an article about it with a link to the complete article:

Tocchet Pleads Guilty, May Avoid Jail Time

MOUNT HOLLY, N.J. -- Former NHL player Rick Tocchet pleaded guilty Friday to running a sports gambling ring but might not have to serve any jail time.

Rick Tocchet, who pleaded guilty to running a gambling ring Friday, could avoid jail time as a first-time offender.

Tocchet, who played for six NHL teams in a 22-year career, is on leave from his job as an assistant coach for the Phoenix Coyotes. He pleaded guilty to charges of conspiracy to promote gambling and promoting gambling. Such offenses usually do not carry a jail sentence for first-time offenders.

"It's a huge operation and I think it exposes to people the allure of gambling, illegal gambling, in New Jersey," state criminal justice director Gregory A. Paw said outside the courthouse.

The maximum sentence for the charges Tocchet pleaded guilty to are 10 years in prison and a $50,000 fine. Paw would not say whether prosecutors will ask for jail time when Tocchet is sentenced on Aug. 17.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2882460

Atlanta Dan
08-21-2007, 11:56 AM
Not to change the subject, but I have been discussing this issue frequently with a coworker of mine and he feels there is a racist double standard as Rick Tocchet, ex-NHL player and current assistant coach for the Phoenix Coyotes has recently pleaded guilty to running an illegal sports gambling ring and looks like he will only get probation - I'd like to know what folks here think about it. Personally, I think it's apples and oranges - here's an excerpt of an article about it with a link to the complete article:

Like Ray Lewis, Tocchet had the good fortune not to be investigated and prosecuted by the Feds. It is the difference between playing a NFL as opposed to a college (or in the case of that clown Poindexter in Virginia) high school team.

In addition, the linked article says although there is a 10 year maximum sentence first offenders do not serve time for the gambling charges to which Tocchet pleaded. The offenses with which Vick is charged have around at least a year to be served under the guidelines and that is what the plea agreements have provided for so far.

New Jersey prosecutors also may not have had as good a case, or played their hand nearly as well, as the investigators and prosecutors did in Vick's case, which gets back to my point that federal court is the last place you want to be if you are a criminal defendant.

X-Terminator
08-21-2007, 11:59 AM
Not to change the subject, but I have been discussing this issue frequently with a coworker of mine and he feels there is a racist double standard as Rick Tocchet, ex-NHL player and current assistant coach for the Phoenix Coyotes has recently pleaded guilty to running an illegal sports gambling ring and looks like he will only get probation - I'd like to know what folks here think about it. Personally, I think it's apples and oranges - here's an excerpt of an article about it with a link to the complete article:



http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2882460

I knew someone would bring this up. The only similarities between Tocchet's crime and Vick's crime is the illegal gambling, but that is where it ends. Last I heard, Tocchet didn't intentionally kill dogs deemed to be "inferior" on his own property, nor did he intentionally try to lie his way out of it by claiming ignorance as to the illegal activity that was happening on his property. That is why Vick is going to prison, and Tocchet is not. Race has nothing to do with it.

Next time this coworker uses that excuse, bring up the Ray Lewis situation and the fact that he walked, despite knowing damn well what happened when those two guys were murdered, since after all, he was there (thanks to AD for bringing that to mind).

Atlanta Dan
08-21-2007, 12:05 PM
Perhaps tired of hearing Arthur Blank claim nobody was more surprised than the Falcons to find out last month that Vick hung out with sketchy characters, the Washington Post links back today to a lengthy story involving Vick's crew (specifically Quanis Philips aka "Q") stealing a Rolex watch from a security station at Hartsfield Airport in October 2004 and the Falcons trying to buy off the victim to avoid having charges pressed. Excerpts and link below.

On what he considered to be an unusually slow afternoon at a Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport security checkpoint last October, security screener Alvin Spencer passed the time by placing his watch on the X-ray belt he was monitoring.

"Curiosity got the best of me, I guess," said Spencer, a federal employee of the Transportation Security Administration, "and I put my watch on the X-ray machine, just to see what it would look like."

A few moments later, the watch was gone. It would find its way into the hands of NFL quarterback Michael Vick, one of the league's biggest stars.

It took six days for Spencer to get the watch back. The tale of its disappearance would involve charges of a police coverup and the allegation of a $20,000 extortion attempt and pits the TSA against the Atlanta Police Department.

The unusual episode provides rare insight into what happens when a superstar athlete gets caught up in a potentially embarrassing incident.

Ultimately, a Falcons official, former NFL star Billy "White Shoes" Johnson, attempted to negotiate a financial settlement with Spencer on Vick's behalf over the missing watch, and no charges were filed. Atlanta police concluded the taking of the watch was a simple mistake that was handled correctly by its officers.

But Spencer and some in the TSA view the incident as an abuse of authority in which a police department pressured a theft victim into not filing charges to avoid embarrassing a city's football star.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30000-2005Mar12_4.html

The Falcons have been in denial and enabling Vick's behavior for years. The October 2004 incident happened several months before the Falcons signed Vick to the $130 million contract.

Big D
08-21-2007, 12:06 PM
I knew someone would bring this up. The only similarities between Tocchet's crime and Vick's crime is the illegal gambling, but that is where it ends. Last I heard, Tocchet didn't intentionally kill dogs deemed to be "inferior" on his own property, nor did he intentionally try to lie his way out of it by claiming ignorance as to the illegal activity that was happening on his property. That is why Vick is going to prison, and Tocchet is not. Race has nothing to do with it.

Next time this coworker uses that excuse, bring up the Ray Lewis situation and the fact that he walked, despite knowing damn well what happened when those two guys were murdered, since after all, he was there (thanks to AD for bringing that to mind).

but x it's just dogs. What is the difference between what vick did and people hunting? peoples ignorance really pisses me off. Vick was killing dogs. Mans best friend. I would love to make the arguement with any of these blow holes

SteelDogFan
08-21-2007, 12:13 PM
Hometown, I agree with your post whole heartedly and do not want to see vick back in the sport that I have followed since the electric football days of the 70's. I hope he does not play another down. Also I dont think that the specific teams I posted are going to go after Vick once he is released. My point is I think there will be a team that does. I hope not, but I think there will and if they do it will only be about the money.

Now I also heard on NFL Network that the his suspension may not run con-current with his jail time. that would mean that he could be in prision for two years and on suspension for two. Thats four years, Vick is in his late twenties. If it goes like that he will be to old for any team to take a chance on thank goodness.

But if it does not and he is only out of football say a year or so that makes me think, he will still be in physical shape and some team will give him a tryout. Like I said before I hope not, but I will not say it 100% ain't gonna happen.

TackleMeBen
08-21-2007, 12:47 PM
well they do say, you are defined by the company you keep.. and we all see what kind of company vick has kept. he has no one to blame for this mess but himself.

zoneblitz43
08-21-2007, 04:46 PM
Vick should be banished from the NFL. if he is allowed to come back that just sends the message that cruelty/torture of animals is ok. he will receive cruel treatment from his fellow inmates. I'd like for some of the inmates to put Vick on their "rape stand". maybe someone will do the world a favor and whack Vick in prison.

WVsteelersfan
08-21-2007, 05:08 PM
I can't stand that the NFL even has to think whether or not Vick should be suspended-he is a sick sadistic cruel individual who has serious mental instability-anyone who did the things he did has to be. He has NO business being in the league. No public apology or speech can make up for what he has done. I too hope that some day in some way he suffers like those dogs did. I think he should be put in a cell and let some of his dogs exact their revenge on him!

tony hipchest
08-21-2007, 08:12 PM
Vick should be banished from the NFL. if he is allowed to come back that just sends the message that cruelty/torture of animals is ok. he will receive cruel treatment from his fellow inmates. I'd like for some of the inmates to put Vick on their "rape stand".

what, and catch herpes? that will not happen, nor will vick be getting "whacked" in prison.

vick is going to be a freaking hero there. as rich as he is, he probably wont even need cash for commisary. hell, he will probably have white supremacists trading him reefer and cigs for autographs. not only that, but i bet theres even a few guards who will be star struck. he will have plenty of friends and plenty of protection. did anyone ever hear of mike tyson getting bitch slapped in the can?

oh, and incase anyones wondering, ive never done time in the pen..... but the 2 speeding tickets i have gotten sure did suck. :jammin:

PisnNapalm
08-21-2007, 08:20 PM
Man gets 2 year sentence in beating of dog.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07233/811009-55.stm

Too bad Vick doesn't live in PA.

CantStop85
08-21-2007, 08:22 PM
oh, and incase anyones wondering, ive never done time in the pen..... but the 2 speeding tickets i have gotten sure did suck. :jammin:

:sofunny: I got pulled over and had to take a sobriety test a few months back, but luckily I never said anything about being a bengals fan and got off clean. :flap:

MACH1
08-21-2007, 11:47 PM
what, and catch herpes? that will not happen, nor will vick be getting "whacked" in prison.

vick is going to be a freaking hero there. as rich as he is, he probably wont even need cash for commisary. hell, he will probably have white supremacists trading him reefer and cigs for autographs. not only that, but i bet theres even a few guards who will be star struck. he will have plenty of friends and plenty of protection. did anyone ever hear of mike tyson getting bitch slapped in the can?

oh, and incase anyones wondering, ive never done time in the pen..... but the 2 speeding tickets i have gotten sure did suck. :jammin:

At the time wasn't tyson known as 'the baddest man on the planet'. The inmates were probly scared shitless of him. Besides if anyone had a choice between the two to bitch slap who would you pick. :sofunny:

The one thats going to rip you up into little pieces and eat them:bite: or the one you might live thru?

tony hipchest
08-21-2007, 11:57 PM
At the time wasn't tyson known as 'the baddest man on the planet'. The inmates were probly scared shitless of him. Besides if anyone had a choice between the two to bitch slap who would you pick. :sofunny:

The one thats going to rip you up into little pieces and eat them:bite: or the one you might live thru?if vick is running, who in prison is gonna catch him? the finest nfl atheletes couldnt catch him....

no way any sandlot criminal scrubs can even get a hand on him :cya:

Preacher
08-22-2007, 12:15 AM
if vick is running, who in prison is gonna catch him? the finest nfl atheletes couldnt catch him....

no way any sandlot criminal scrubs can even get a hand on him :cya:

Yeah.. but um...

Its a whole different ball game when you have to KEEP running!

ben2hines=6
08-22-2007, 12:32 PM
maybe irvin can give him some advice...lol

alittlejazzbird
08-22-2007, 12:37 PM
i'm sure this wont help much. listening to espn radio. Emailer says the nfl wouldnt be making as big of a deal about this if it were peyton manning.

Personally, I think the NFL would be making a BIGGER deal about it if it were Peyton Manning. The thinking would be, of all the people who should know better, Peyton Manning would be at the top of the list. Imagine the complete shock of discovering the secret life of a straight shooter like Manning.

Same with Donovan McNabb, Brett Favre, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer.....and although my heart would be absolutely breaking, if it were Ben instead of Vick, I'd still be screaming for his head on a platter, maximum punishment and a lifetime NFL ban.

As a lifetime devout animal lover, shelter/rescue volunteer worker, and longtime vegetarian, my personal feeling is that Michael Vick's punishment should be approximately what he did to those dogs. Looking at it more practically, and as someone with a background in the legal industry, I believe he'll get what's coming to him. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, first on Monday when he formally enters the plea, and then later on, on his sentencing date, which is when I believe we'll also find out his NFL punishment.

Atlanta Dan
08-22-2007, 02:40 PM
More pearls of wisdom from the Atlanta NAACP Chapter President R.L. White:

Last month, state and local leaders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People urged the public not to rush to judgment in the Vick case. The civil rights organization said that animal rights groups, talk radio and the news media were vilifying the embattled athlete, and that his team and corporate sponsors were prematurely punishing Vick.

White questioned the credibility of Vick's co-defendants and said an admission of guilt may be more about cutting losses than the truth.

"At this point, you're not looking at guilt or innocence," White said, referring to the possible harsher sentence Vick could have received had he taken his case to trial and been found guilty. "You're thinking, 'What I better do is cut my losses and take a plea.' But if he saw this as the best thing to do at this point for his future, then I think he made the correct choice."

He added that he does believe that Vick may be guilty of some wrongdoing, but could be taking responsibility for crimes that he did not commit.

White said he believed the more likely scenario is that Vick was an owner who was not fully aware of the kennel's activities.

White said he regretted that the plea deal will mean all of the facts of the case may never be known.

"Some have said things to save their own necks," White said. "Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he had killed a human being."

White said he does not support dogfighting and that he considers it as bad as hunting.

"His crime is, it was a dog," White said.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/22/0823_vicknaacp.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Memo to Mr. White: 1) hunting is legal; 2) the last thing Vick wants is for all of the facts of this case to become known.

Pretty typical of what a depressingly large number of blacks in Atlanta are saying.

Another line of attack is "what about Danny Heatley?" in reference to the (white) Thrashers hockey player who put his Ferrari into a pole and killed his passenger, a teammate, but did no time. When I heard that one yesterday, I did not bother to argue that vehicular homicide not related to alcohol is hardly the same crime as running a dogfighting ring for six years (facts are irrelevant), but returned fire by pointing out Heatley was prosecuted by joke local DA Paul Howard (black) who also was the masterful prosecutor of Ray Lewis.

I have lived in Atlanta since the 1980s and can only describe the bitter split in Vick reactions along racial lines as the most acrimonious I have seen since I moved here and can only comapre it to those seen nationwide after OJ was found not guilty.

MasterOfPuppets
08-22-2007, 05:53 PM
Yeah.. but um...

Its a whole different ball game when you have to KEEP running!
not to mention,running in an 8x8 cell.....i guess you could say it's 8 in a box.....:sofunny:

tony hipchest
08-22-2007, 05:56 PM
in all seriousness it would be pretty funny if the prison removed the toilet from vicks cell and made him pee and crap on newspaper (ron cook articles of course) laid out on the floor.

:coffee: :poop:

Big D
08-22-2007, 06:00 PM
in all seriousness it would be pretty funny if the prison removed the toilet from vicks cell and made him pee and crap on newspaper (ron cook articles of course) laid out on the floor.

:coffee: :poop:

I think vick belongs in a padded room more then a jail cell.

MACH1
08-22-2007, 06:04 PM
Which federal facility is he going to be sent to? The one where common criminals are sent or the one with tennis courts and cable tv.

Atlanta Dan
08-22-2007, 06:06 PM
Wrong - he belongs back in the NFL bringing joy and cheer to all who have the honor of watching him play:

[NAACP} Chapter President R.L. White said that the Atlanta chapter supports Vick's decision to accept a plea bargain if it is in his best interest. However, White says Vick is a human being who has made a mistake and should be allowed to prove that he has learned from that mistake.

After that, White says Vick should be allowed to return to professional football — preferably with the Atlanta Falcons.:jawdrop:

"As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football," White said. "We further ask the NFL, Falcons, and the sponsors not to permanently ban Mr. Vick from his ability to bring hours of enjoyment to fans all over this country.".:dang:

tony hipchest
08-22-2007, 06:14 PM
poetic justice?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d801a5660&template=with-video&confirm=true

UNHERALDED POLICE DOG
If Vick is the main villain in a dogfighting case that has troubled and captivated this country, then the hero is Troy the 3-year-old Dutch Sheppard.

Troy is the certified police dog that, early on April 20, led the police to a car in the parking lot of the Royal Suite nightclub in Hampton, Va.

The car belonged to Michael Vick’s cousin Davon Boddie. The car contained three ounces of marijuana. And once Troy sniffed out the car, police launched their own drug probe five days later at Boddie’s address -- the now-infamous 1915 Moonlight Road.

While police went to the property looking for drugs, they instead found pitbulls, dogfighting equipment and dog carcasses -- all at a home in which Vick owned.

It is one of the most intriguing, and overlooked, aspects of this whole Vick case that has seemingly grown in size and scope since it first was uncovered just days before the NFL draft.

Were it not for Troy -– who didn’t join the Hampton police department until May 2006 -- it’s possible Vick still might be leading the secret life he had been living all along.

But Troy the 3-year-old Dutch Sheppard brought down Vick in a way that NFL defenders never could.


this is pretty sweet for police dogs all across america. i have witnessed 2 military dog funerals (w/21 gun salute and all), and toured the training facilities which my office used to be next door to. the plaques and mission statements on the wall show they are viewed as fellow officers.

very touching if you are an animal lover.

tony hipchest
08-22-2007, 06:31 PM
Wrong - he belongs back in the NFL bringing joy and cheer to all who have the honor of watching him play:

[NAACP} Chapter President R.L. White said that the Atlanta chapter supports Vick's decision to accept a plea bargain if it is in his best interest. However, White says Vick is a human being who has made a mistake and should be allowed to prove that he has learned from that mistake.

After that, White says Vick should be allowed to return to professional football — preferably with the Atlanta Falcons.:jawdrop:

"As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football," White said. "We further ask the NFL, Falcons, and the sponsors not to permanently ban Mr. Vick from his ability to bring hours of enjoyment to fans all over this country.".:dang:im getting tired of the "they were just dogs" excuse and "its the same as hunting" excuse, and the "its ingrained in our culture" excuse.

to me, it seems to take us where the civil rights movement was about 100 years ago.

i havent heard this yet (to squash these lame excuses in support of vick) and i hate to say it, but, what was the excuse used to condone slavery when blacks were considered 2/3 of a human? what about the excuse to slaughter thousands of naitive american indians for being "savages" and non human?

these were indeed greater wrongs than what vick did. but the excuses are exactly the same. 2 wrongs dont make a right.

by no means am i trying to compare people to dogs but the vick supporters are doing exactly the same when they compare dogfighting to eating some BBQ chicken, or a hunter taking a wild boar.

MasterOfPuppets
08-22-2007, 06:40 PM
"Some have said things to save their own necks," White said. "Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he had killed a human being."

White said he does not support dogfighting and that he considers it as bad as hunting.

"His crime is, it was a dog," White said.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7144938

tony hipchest
08-22-2007, 06:50 PM
"Some have said things to save their own necks," White said. "Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he had killed a human being."

White said he does not support dogfighting and that he considers it as bad as hunting.

"His crime is, it was a dog," White said.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7144938 exactly what i was referring to. i need to make an edit.

MasterOfPuppets
08-22-2007, 06:54 PM
exactly what i was referring to. i need to make an edit.

i just wonder if mr white and the naacp,were asked to comment on a white athlete, charged with the same crime, would say the same thing.

Black@Gold Forever32
08-22-2007, 06:54 PM
poetic justice?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d801a5660&template=with-video&confirm=true

this is pretty sweet for police dogs all across america. i have witnessed 2 military dog funerals (w/21 gun salute and all), and toured the training facilities which my office used to be next door to. the plaques and mission statements on the wall show they are viewed as fellow officers.

very touching if you are an animal lover.

Talk about irony.........

OneForTheToe
08-23-2007, 12:49 AM
White is embarrassing himself and those foolish enough to follow him. Vick is not a cause worth wasting any credibility on (if White has any credibility to begin with) Even the national NAACP seems to realize that Vick is toxic.

MasterOfPuppets
08-23-2007, 06:39 PM
here's some quotes from the head of the naacp,and some interesting comments from posters...
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7145048

Falcons quarterback Michael Vick "is not a victim" and should be held responsible for his actions involving a dogfighting ring in Virginia, the national president of the NAACP said Thursday.

Hayes said White and others who have come to Vick's defense are expressing an overarching frustration with disparities in the criminal justice system.

"People need to understand the backdrop as some in the African-American community make their expressions of support," Hayes said. "That backdrop includes anger and distrust with the criminal justice system that disproportionately pays attention to African-Americans and Hispanics.

"While no dog deserves to be mistreated, the backdrop includes the perception among some African-Americans that the criminal justice system treats them like animals and that nobody seems willing to do anything about the disparity."

Hayes, who said the national group did not have an official position on the case, said he didn't want to speculate about whether Vick was being treated differently because he is black.





"He may in fact be being treated better than some African-Americans and Hispanics who don't have the resources and financial means that he has," Hayes said. "On the other hand, there might be some of a different race or different ethnicity who might be treated a bit differently."

hows that for not speculating ?

PapichulO
8/22/2007
12:49 PM ladies and gentlemen i give you the NAACP: they demand the firing of imus and he didnt break a law ... yet they pledge their support to vick, already lobbying for him to keep his job, and advertisers not to run, after he already pleading guilty to some pretty serious and heinous acts... this organization has officially jumped the shark. they are not to be taken seriously anymore.

if i were african american i would be totally embarrassed.

bobbypfalcon
8/22/2007
1:06 PM Who's the racist now NAACP? Comparing hunting to dogfighting to make it seem like someone is out to get Vick... Why? Because he's black?

Why can't it just be because a man did an reprehensible and illegal act? A man who is supposed to be a leader of men and an example for young people. It has absolutely nothing to do with race. Wrong is wrong. PapichulO made an excellent point about how the NAACP got on Imus. They really should be embarrassed for themselves. peace.

SeattleJohn
8/22/2007
1:51 PM

I agree with many of the above posts. It is truly sad that an organizaiotn that supposedly stands for equal rights is so obviously bias. As an America with multiple ethic backgrounds, it makes me sick that our media and much of our general public sides with organizations that are clearly racist like the NAACP. Nothing is scarier than dumb people with money (like Mike Vick) and dumb people with voting rights!!!

Ohio Steeler
08-23-2007, 07:15 PM
Lets see 1st he kills dog's then he goes to jail and now he will be well doing it doggy style all the time....

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
08-23-2007, 11:43 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2989037

Watch the video it's very interesting. Seems in Vicks plea per his attorney's he's not planning on fessing up to killing any dogs or gambling. Guess that takes care of that and he can go home now. . :dang: Total freaking amazing? The guy is a scum bag.

Shea
08-24-2007, 12:11 AM
Looks like his father decided to give an interview. :jawdrop:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/23/vickdad_0824.html

Preacher
08-24-2007, 01:13 AM
If he gets away with just a few months in jail... and ends up playing sometime this year... I am going to BE TICKED.

stillers4me
08-24-2007, 05:59 AM
I see this whole plea agreement falling off the table. No way the feds are going to buy this.......they have his "buddies" testimony to use against him.

Ohio Steeler
08-24-2007, 06:46 AM
I cant wait to see what the judge does on Monday....

Atlanta Dan
08-24-2007, 07:20 AM
I cant wait to see what the judge does on Monday....

Don't worry about this somehow being an escape by Vick.

If he will not enter a plea then he will not enter a plea; the judge cannot force him to plead guilty and will say see you for trial in November. Good prosecutors know defendants back out of plea deals all the time and are accordingly ready to proceed to trial.

This is what happens when you get an agreement in principle on a plea in immediate advance of a deadline and then it goes off the tracks because the defendant will not agree to admit certain facts during the plea colloquy.

Vick obviously does not want to admit to dog killling and gambling because of its impact on what Goodell will do (gambling) and having a potential future owner not being able to take the PR hit of signing up a dog killer. My bet is the defense attorneys said Vick would admit to those facts and now when it is time to sign Vick is getting conflicting advice (or listening to The Two Live Stews on Atlanta sports talk discussing how he he is being victimized) and is refusing to sign.

If their case is as strong as I believe it is, I agree completely with stillers4me that the prosecutors will tell Vick sign this plea agreement or get ready to get hammered with a superseding indictment. To paraphrase the saying in The Godfather, they are maiking Vick an offer he can't refuse and are going to have Vick's signature or his brains on that plea agreement.

Atlanta Dan
08-24-2007, 11:15 AM
CNN.com is reporting a plea agreement will be filed today, so go figure. If the prosecution and defense jointly recommend an offense level in the pela agreement then the facts which Vick admits will not change the advisory guidelines range that will be set undr that joint recommendation. Sounds like the prosecutors will not be seeking a guidelines enhancemnt for Vick bankrolling the operation.

The judge is not required to find facts to be true beyond a reasonable doubt in using those facts as a basis for the sentence (and of course neither is Goodell) so if vick does not admit specific facts it shoudl not imnpact the sentence. OTOH, the prosecutors may want Vick to admnit ceratin conduct as part of acceptibg rsponsibility for his deeds.

If Vick does not admit the dog killing and gambling, the Two Live Stews of the world will now be claiming he has not been proven to have done anything seriously wrong and wa "forced" to plead guilty for the crime of "stupidity.". The reaction to Vick's plea has reminded me of the divide between many black and white Americans as to how this society operates.

Atlanta Dan
08-24-2007, 11:58 AM
Here is the link to Vick's plea agreement

http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/pdf/vickplea.pdf?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Both parties agree to net offense level of 13, which puts the advisory guidelines range sentence at 12-18 months; Govt. will recommend sentence at low end of guidelines (aka 1 year)

Vick denies killing any dogs in 2002 (para. 12 of stipulated facts) and that dogs were killled in 2007 as the result of the "collective efforts" of Vick and his co-defendants.

Vick denies placing sidbets on fights or receiving proceeds from "purses" won by BadNewz Kennels, so he can tell Goodell he didn't gamble even though the plea's stipulated facts state in para. 4 that BadNewz Kennels was a gambling enterprise and tat Vick financed the gambling (Vick's co-defendants are said to have split the winnings)

Given what they had to work with, Vick's attorneys earned their pay in negotiatig this plea agreement.

tony hipchest
08-24-2007, 12:24 PM
what exactly is this $100/count for dan?

6. Special Assessment

Before sentencing in this case, defendant agrees to pay $100 mandatory special assesment fee per count of conviction.

this was funny. "civil action United States v. Approximately 53 Pit Bull Dogs"

fansince'76
08-24-2007, 12:27 PM
If Goodell lets this fool come back, all the efforts he has made up to now to clean up the league's image will become a joke.

Jman
08-24-2007, 12:36 PM
If Goodell lets this fool come back, all the efforts he has made up to now to clean up the league's image will become a joke.

:iagree:

AD - What CAN Goodell do based on the plea?

OneForTheToe
08-24-2007, 12:43 PM
If he gets away with just a few months in jail... and ends up playing sometime this year... I am going to BE TICKED.


Little chance of that, I think Preacher. It looks like he gets a sentence in the 15 month range (unless the judge thinks he got off too lightly). As Atlanta Dan said, he is looking at serving pretty much the same amount of time regardless of the facts that he actually pleads to. I think you have to do 80% in the federal system. So, he is looking at least 1 year in the system. Add onto that the likely suspension from Goodell, and we are still looking at 2010 before he could even get a sniff at the NFL.

As far as to whether the Feds went too light on him, I have a few thoughts. This is one of the reasons the Feds have such a high conviction rate. They have the flexibility to cut these types of deals. Like the deal or not the Feds will add this to their conviction rate. I'm sure the U.S. Attorney's office figured a guilty plea and year in prison was better than an expensive, racially divisive, trial for the purpose of adding maybe 8 to 12 months onto the sentence. Admittedly, we will now have to listen to the "Ookie" apologist claim he was never convicted of killing dogs or gambling, but those that chose to apologize for Vick are going to make excuses for him regardless of what he pleads to. Similarly, there will be those who will say Vick got off lightly even if is sentenced to a multiyear term.

Personally, I though the Feds would stick harder. On the other hand, "Ookie" is going to jail and won't be of the field for at least for a couple of years. Thus, we can get back to watching America's true favorite sport ..... soccer ....pssst yea right, in your dreams Beckham's. I mean, of course football - American football, that is.

Your honor, I plead guilty to being ready for some football.

fansince'76
08-24-2007, 12:52 PM
Personally, I though the Feds would stick harder. On the other hand, "Ookie" is going to jail and won't be of the field for at least for a couple of years. Thus, we can get back to watching America's true favorite sport ..... soccer ....pssst yea right, in your dreams Beckham's. I mean, of course football - American football, that is.

Your honor, I'm ready for some football.

Great point - by him agreeing to a plea deal now, there is a good chance this thing won't hang like a pall over the entire season.

OneForTheToe
08-24-2007, 01:13 PM
Great point - by him agreeing to a plea deal now, there is a good chance this thing won't hang like a pall over the entire season.


Yep, here is no one happier about this deal, (other than Vick) than Roger Goodell.

Atlanta Dan
08-24-2007, 01:36 PM
what exactly is this $100/count for dan?

this was funny. "civil action United States v. Approximately 53 Pit Bull Dogs"

You pay a "special assessment" for each count of the indictment to which you plead guilty - it is not a fine but goes to a victims fund.

Individuals pleading in federal court to felonies get a $100 special assessment per count and misdemeanors $5-25 depending on the class of misdemeanor.

Atlanta Dan
08-24-2007, 01:51 PM
With regard to the plea deal, if getting Vick to plead to specific facts was necessary to resolving a related federal govt. action then the Feds might have taken a harder line; the Feds could care less about making Goodell's job easier and are indifferent that everyone can now enjoy the season without the "cloud" of Vick's unresolved charges over the fun. They have plenty of other cases bigger than this one to deal with (the ED VA is the home office for a lot of terrorism/national security prosecutions)..

As far as the sentence goes, the Feds big concession was not seeking an enhancement for Vick bankrolling the operation. While Vick may not admit he killed dogs, he admits he ran a gambling enterprise (while not making sidebets) and Judge Hudson can still find at sentencing Vick killed dogs based on the statements of the co-defendants.

Goodell can use the plea agrement as a base offense level and then decide what to do about the gambling based on the co-defendants & CWs statements - the idea that Vick did not have any sidebets going is prima facie absurd. He my not get a lifetime ban but he presumably is gone until 2010.

I agree we will now be hearing Vick did nothing really wrong but I have abandoned trying to discuss the matter with those folks.

Atlanta Dan
08-24-2007, 02:06 PM
So much for Vick spinning his role with the "collective efforts" language regarding the 2007 dog killling. Here is headline on CNN.com:

Vick admits dog killing, conspiracy

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/24/michael.vick/index.html

The link on CNN.com to the plea agreement is titled:

Vick: My role in killing dogs

Somebody at CNN is not a fan of #7

zoneblitz43
08-24-2007, 02:32 PM
boy is Michael Vick in some hot water. since he is pleading guilty, what do you think is a suitable punishment? I think 5 years in prison and banishment from the NFL would be appropriate, I think he will be banned for lying to Goodell about the dogfighting. besides no team will want Vick anyway.

OneForTheToe
08-24-2007, 02:39 PM
He's required to cooperate with the Feds regarding other possible dog fighting rings (subject to a lie detector). Does this mean Emitt Smith was right? :funny: :tomato:Just wait now Emitt will claim that: "I don't want to say you told me that I told you that it was so, but as I said you told me that to be told so said so." :screwy:

Ohio Steeler
08-24-2007, 02:45 PM
the judge does not have to agree to this plea or does he ?

Atlanta Dan
08-24-2007, 04:04 PM
the judge does not have to agree to this plea or does he ?

Courts can reject a plea agreement for factors such as: defendant receiving too light a sentence under the charges to which plea is being entered, given the underlying conduct at issue that would be covered by other charges dismissed under the plea agreement; the facts do not support the charges to which a plea is being entered; or the plea is not knowingly and voluntarily entered. This is covered under Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 11(c)(5).

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/Rule11.htm

It rarely happens and will not happen in Vick's case, but a judge rejected a guilty plea this summer for the attorney who leaked the grand jury information in the BALCO steroids investigation because he thought it was sweetheart deal for the defenant-attorney who did the leak.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/15/AR2007061500325.html

Crushzilla
08-24-2007, 05:03 PM
Its official.

Vick suspended indefinitely

National Football League

Commissioner Roger Goodell notified Michael Vick on Friday that he is suspended indefinitely without pay from the National Football League, effective immediately.

Following are excerpts from Commissioner Goodell’s letter to Vick:

? "Your admitted conduct was not only illegal, but also cruel and reprehensible. Your team, the NFL, and NFL fans have all been hurt by your actions."

? "Your plea agreement and the plea agreements of your co-defendants also demonstrate your significant involvement in illegal gambling. Even if you personally did not place bets, as you contend, your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL Player Contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player."

? "You have engaged in conduct detrimental to the welfare of the NFL and have violated the league’s Personal Conduct Policy."

? "I will review the status of your suspension following the conclusion of the legal proceedings. As part of that review, I will take into account a number of factors, including the resolution of any other charges that may be brought against you, whether in Surry County, Virginia, or other jurisdictions, your conduct going forward, the specifics of the sentence imposed by Judge Hudson and any related findings he might make, and the extent to which you are truthful and cooperative with law enforcement and league staff who are investigating these matters."

? "I have advised the Falcons that, with my decision today, they are no longer prohibited from acting and are now free to assert any claims or remedies available to them under the Collective Bargaining Agreement or your NFL Player Contract."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d801c32be&template=with-video&confirm=true

stillers4me
08-24-2007, 05:06 PM
Buhbye, Mikey. :wave:

OneForTheToe
08-24-2007, 05:11 PM
Nana na na, na na na .............

MACH1
08-24-2007, 06:05 PM
See Ya in about 1 to 5.

WVsteelersfan
08-24-2007, 06:11 PM
GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!
I knew my letter would move Goodell LOL!!!

HometownGal
08-24-2007, 06:44 PM
See ya scumbag. Don't forget the soap on a rope. :wave::banana:

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
08-24-2007, 07:00 PM
couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. :wink02: I find it poetic justice that this whole thing started with a police dog. Gooooooood boooooooooy Rover.

Can't wait to see what Judge Hudson is going to do I'll bet he doesn't appreciate the manner in which this matter was being handled by his entourage.

boLT fan
08-24-2007, 07:07 PM
Nana na na, na na na .............

.....hey hey heeeey....

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
08-24-2007, 07:17 PM
This will be interesting to watch

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070824/us_nm/crime_usa_dmx_dc

Pit bulls seized in raid on rapper DMX's home

PHOENIX (Reuters) - Maricopa County Sheriff's deputies removed 12 distressed pit bulls from the Phoenix area home of rapper-turned-actor DMX in a raid that also found a number of firearms, police said on Friday.

Sheriffs' office spokesman Capt. Paul Chagolla said DMX, whose real name is Earl Simmons, 36, was not at home during the raid.

"We served an initial search warrant for animal neglect, and 12 pit bulls were removed," Chagolla told Reuters by telephone.

"There are weapons in the home, and we are in the process of obtaining an amended warrant," he added.

Chagolla said no arrests have been made in connection with the raid. He said an ongoing investigations at the home "would determine what charges may be bought and against and whom."

Simmons has sold 20 million albums. The most recent, the "Year of the Dog ... Again" was brought out last year. The cover depicts DMX restraining a snarling pit bull on a chain.

He is best known as actor for appearances in films including "Romeo Must Die" and "Exit Wounds" in 2000 and 2001, has a long history of brushes with the law.

In 2002 he pleaded guilty in New Jersey for animal cruelty for neglecting 13 pit bulls, according to news reports. As part of his sentence he did a public service announcement against animal abuse.

Simmons' representatives at the William Morris Agency in Los Angeles could not be reached for comment.

Chagolla said the dogs are now in the care of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office. He added that it had not determined if they had been involved in fighting activities.

The raid came as Atlanta Falcons' quarterback Michael Vick admitted guilt on Friday in a dogfighting case, prompting the National Football League to suspend the star player indefinitely.

Vick, 27, admitted in a plea agreement he took part in an illegal, interstate dogfighting enterprise known as "Bad Newz Kennels" from 2001 through April 2007.

MasterOfPuppets
08-24-2007, 07:19 PM
.....hey hey heeeey....

http://http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/1667/goodbye1cn5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Atlanta Dan
08-24-2007, 08:49 PM
Here is a link to Goodell's full letter to Vick, which ends with this cheery goodbye

"You are now justifiably facing consequences for the decisions you made and the conduct in which you engaged. Your career, freedom and public standing are now in the most serious jeopardy," Goodell wrote. "I hope that you will be able to learn from this difficult experience and emerge from it better prepared to act responsibly and to make the kinds of choices that are expected of a conscientious and law abiding citizen.":kick:

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/070824/michaelvickletter.pdf

Ohio Steeler
08-25-2007, 09:52 AM
NEW YORK -- The NFL has suspended Falcons quarterback Michael Vick indefinitely without pay following his admission of guilt in a dogfighting scheme.

On Friday, Vick filed his plea agreement in federal court admitting to conspiracy in a dogfighting ring and agreeing that the enterprise included killing pit bulls and gambling. He denied making side bets on the fights, but admitted to bankrolling them.

Friday afternoon, a letter to Vick from NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said, in part:

"Your admitted conduct was not only illegal, but also cruel and reprehensible" and regardless whether he personally placed bets, "your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player."

Goodell freed the Falcons to "assert any claims or remedies" to recover $22 million of Vick's signing bonus from the 10-year, $130 million contract he signed in 2004.

The commissioner didn't speak to Vick but based his decison on the court filings. NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Goodell may meet with Vick in the future, but that hasn't been determined.

"You have engaged in conduct detrimental to the welfare of the NFL and have violated the league's personal conduct policy," Goodell told Vick in a letter.

"Even if you personally did not place bets, as you contend, your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL Player Contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player."

"I will review the status of your suspension following the conclusion of the legal proceedings. As part of that review, I will take into account a number of factors, including the resolution of any other charges that may be brought against you, whether in Surry County, Virginia, or other jurisdictions, your conduct going forward, the specifics of the sentence imposed by Judge Hudson and any related findings he might make, and the extent to which you are truthful and cooperative with law enforcement and league staff who are investigating these matters."

"I have advised the Falcons that, with my decision today, they are no longer prohibited from acting and are now free to assert any claims or remedies available to them under the Collective Bargaining Agreement or your NFL Player Contract."

Information from The Associated Press is included in this report

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2990157

The Duke
08-25-2007, 11:18 AM
Indefinitely, that's almost what I was waiting to hear, but I guess it's ok. Maybe once the jury finishes he will get banned for life

Indy_Steelers
08-26-2007, 05:10 AM
Vick cards chewed by dogs are on eBay

By BRIAN CHARLTON, Associated Press writer
August 24, 2007

Take some trading cards picturing a disgraced NFL superstar. Add some dog slobber and teethmarks. What do you get? The most valuable Michael Vick cards ? by far ? on eBay, that's what.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=20070824/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_vick_chewed_cards&prov=ap&type=lgns

Ohio Steeler
08-26-2007, 08:25 AM
Indefinitely, that's almost what I was waiting to hear, but I guess it's ok. Maybe once the jury finishes he will get banned for life


:cheers::thumbsup:

Godfather
08-26-2007, 09:54 AM
Based on the timing, you have to wonder if Vick rolled on DMX. Tiki barber said Vick wouldn't be accepted in the locker room if he rolled on an NFL player.

Rolling on a rapper might give him the benefits of cutting a deal but avoid the cost of ratting on another player. That would be smart...nevermind, it's just a coincidence.

Atlanta Dan
08-26-2007, 06:02 PM
Well at least Vick's mom still loves him, according to this New York Post article (with a typically great Post headline):sofunny:

LOVING MOM: VICK'S MY DAWG
SAYS STAR HAS 'BIG HEART' & CALLS DADDY A DRUGGIE

"I gotta be strong for him," Brenda Vick sobbed, standing outside the handsome brick mansion her son bought for her in Suffolk, Va. "It is tough on everybody. They are trying to put my baby in jail, and for what?"

"Everybody makes mistakes," she continued, only hours after her son filed his guilty plea Friday. "Everybody deserves a second chance. He has given his life over to God. He is not a criminal . . . He's a good person. He has a big heart, and it just hurts."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08262007/news/nationalnews/loving_mom__vicks_my_dawg.htm?page=1

Ummm Ms. Vick - he signed a plea agreement admitting that he committed a felony - he's a criminal

The Duke
08-26-2007, 06:06 PM
He is not a criminal . . . He's a good person. :toofunny:

Of course, every mother is always going to try to protect their kids, but he is a criminal, and no good person hurts somebody else

SteelCityMan786
08-26-2007, 06:09 PM
Here is a link to Goodell's full letter to Vick, which ends with this cheery goodbye

"You are now justifiably facing consequences for the decisions you made and the conduct in which you engaged. Your career, freedom and public standing are now in the most serious jeopardy," Goodell wrote. "I hope that you will be able to learn from this difficult experience and emerge from it better prepared to act responsibly and to make the kinds of choices that are expected of a conscientious and law abiding citizen.":kick:

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/070824/michaelvickletter.pdf

He's just about ready to head to be declared banned.

Jeremy
08-27-2007, 02:42 AM
Take notes boys. (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?id=2992508&sportCat=nfl)

ChronoCross
08-27-2007, 04:27 AM
why you posting a article about vick here in a Steeler area when there is a huge thread in NFL Football area.. This will soon be moved..

steelcity58
08-27-2007, 04:35 AM
A weak article at that.

Jeremy
08-27-2007, 04:53 AM
A weak article at that.

Weak? I'd love to see you do any better.

Don't worry.......I'll wait.

Jman
08-27-2007, 07:58 AM
Today's the day...

Ohio Steeler
08-27-2007, 08:05 AM
I just want to know when this will all be over, I am sick of reading about it or hearing about it lock his thug ass up and throw away the key.

Ohio Steeler
08-27-2007, 10:33 AM
RICHMOND, Va. -- Michael Vick pleaded guilty Monday to a federal dogfighting charge and awaited a Dec. 10 sentencing date that could send the NFL star to prison.

The plea by the suspended Atlanta Falcons quarterback was accepted by U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson, who asked: "Are you entering the plea of guilty to a conspiracy charge because you are in fact guilty?"

Vick replied, "Yes, sir."

Hudson emphasized he is not bound by sentencing guidelines and can impose the maximum sentence of up to five years in prison.

"You're taking your chances here. You'll have to live with whatever decision I make," Hudson.

Vick will make a statement at 11:30 a.m. ET, his attorney, Billy Martin, said Monday.

"He will tell the world his thoughts and his feelings with regard to this charge," Martin said.

"Michael, when he makes this statement, will be brief."

In his written plea filed in federal court Friday, Vick admitted helping kill six to eight pit bulls and supplying money for gambling on the fights. He said he did not personally place any bets or share in any winnings.

The NFL suspended him indefinitely and without pay Friday after his plea agreement was filed. Merely associating with gamblers can trigger a lifetime ban under the league's personal conduct policy.

ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports that Vick stands to lose approximately $100 million because of his conviction.

In announcing the suspension, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell opened the way for the Falcons to attempt to recover $22 million of Vick's signing bonus from the 10-year, $130 million contract he signed in 2004.

Federal prosecutors recommended 12-18 months in prison.

"A first-time offender might well receive no jail time for this offense," U.S. Attorney Chuck Rosenberg said in a statement. "We thought, however, that the conduct in this conspiracy was heinous, cruel and inhumane" so three of the four defendants, including Vick, should receive harsher sentences.

The first defendant to plead guilty left the conspiracy in 2004 and is not as culpable, he said.

The case began in late April when authorities conducting a drug investigation of Vick's cousin raided the former Virginia Tech star's rural Surry County property and seized dozens of dogs, some injured, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting.

Vick's plea came hours before the Falcons are scheduled to play an exhibition game at home against the Cincinnati Bengals. This will be the first chance for the team to see what effect Vick's case has on attendance at the Georgia Dome. Vick wears the biggest-selling jersey in team history and is given much credit for the team's 51 consecutive sellouts.

After initially denying his involvement, Vick has said little publicly about the case. Privately, he met with Goodell and Falcons owner Arthur Blank when the investigation was just beginning, and almost certainly lied to both.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2992890

SteelCityMan786
08-27-2007, 10:37 AM
Topic Merged.

Please keep all Vick Discussion in THIS THREAD. Thanks.

83-Steelers-43
08-27-2007, 10:52 AM
Vick has found God. That's what he shared with the country during his press conference about ten minutes ago. Now there's a shocker. Don't they all?

Ohio Steeler
08-27-2007, 11:16 AM
Vick has found God. That's what he shared with the country during his press conference about ten minutes ago. Now there's a shocker. Don't they all?


hm dont all thugs who get in trouble say that same thing.... I found GOD mean while my homies are off killing dogs

83-Steelers-43
08-27-2007, 11:42 AM
Arthur Blank on releasing Vick: "It's not in the best interest of the franchise in the long term."

LOL. Must be nice.

Ohio Steeler
08-27-2007, 11:48 AM
Arthur Blank on releasing Vick: "It's not in the best interest of the franchise in the long term."

LOL. Must be nice.


hm talk about turning words around :sofunny:

Atlanta Dan
08-27-2007, 11:57 AM
I just want to know when this will all be over, I am sick of reading about it or hearing about it lock his thug ass up and throw away the key.

He gets sentenced in December - he presumably asks for his NFL suspension to be liftyed after his sentence is completed - Goodell presumably reinstates him for the 2010 season.

If you want an excellent explanation as to why under the law the option to "lock his thug ass up and throw away the key" is a non-starter, the attached press release by the federal prosecutors is a good summary.

http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/pdf/vickplea0827.pdf

As I do with threads here or news stories elsewhere on which I burn out, you can always quit reading or posting about a subject.once you are sick of it and/or the poster(s). :smile:

verks36
08-27-2007, 12:16 PM
i think vick public speach was from the heart. he knows he screwed up. I am actually starting to feel bad for the guy

Atlanta Dan
08-27-2007, 12:22 PM
i think vick public speach was from the heart. he knows he screwed up. I am actually starting to feel bad for the guy

Feel bad for his victims - they did not deserve what happened to them - Vick is getting what he deserves - contrition is nice but it does not unring the bell.

Ohio Steeler
08-27-2007, 01:24 PM
i think vick public speach was from the heart. he knows he screwed up. I am actually starting to feel bad for the guy


:blah::blah::blah:oh come on it was an act the guy knows he is going to jail and just wants to look like he is sorry.

lock his up and throw the key away :coffee:

X-Terminator
08-27-2007, 01:37 PM
i think vick public speach was from the heart. he knows he screwed up. I am actually starting to feel bad for the guy

:jawdrop:

You've GOT to be kidding me! The only thing Vick is sorry for is that he got caught. Period. He "screwed up"? Getting drunk and pissing on someone's door is a screw-up. Promoting dogfighting and killing dogs ON YOUR PROPERTY, then lying to everyone from his family and friends to Roger Goodell in order to save his sorry ass, is NOT.

No sympathy here.

CantStop85
08-27-2007, 01:43 PM
Hopefully this whole incident and jail time can help Vick turn his life around. He made some bad decisions and now he's paying the price. Hopefully he'll come out of this a better person.

onthebus36
08-27-2007, 01:51 PM
i think vick public speach was from the heart. he knows he screwed up. I am actually starting to feel bad for the guy

He knews he got caught and he's sorry he got caught and he's sorry he's losing income. Other than that, it's just a show for the cameras.

Regaring him "getting better," there are certainly external issues that are affecting Mr. Vick, but there are some very disturbing traits in his personality that I hope he gets counseling for. Cruelty to animals, an inflated sense of self-worth, lack of accountability, etc... are all traits of sociopaths. I'm not saying this to beat up on the guy or make fun of him. He needs to get help while he is in prison and will very likely need a lot of counseling.

memphissteelergirl
08-27-2007, 02:00 PM
:jawdrop:

You've GOT to be kidding me! The only thing Vick is sorry for is that he got caught. Period. He "screwed up"? Getting drunk and pissing on someone's door is a screw-up. Promoting dogfighting and killing dogs ON YOUR PROPERTY, then lying to everyone from his family and friends to Roger Goodell in order to save his sorry ass, is NOT.

No sympathy here.


Dag...don't be shy, XT...say what you really feel...LOL

This editorial appeared in my hometown newspaper yesterday....I think it sums it all up perfectly.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2007/aug/26/x26peck/

Virginia Steeler
08-27-2007, 02:10 PM
am I the only one who WANTS Vick to play again? And I am a UVA fan, so I have hated Vick longer than most everyone here...I want to see him playing for a terrible team for the league minimum....Vick was the most over-rated player ever and this will finally expose him as the mediocre QB he really is...The NFL is all about 2nd chances, which is why the Titans didn't cut Pacman - b.c he's actually good...I'd be happy to see this guy on the Browns sideline in 2010 holding a clipboard.

Ohio Steeler
08-27-2007, 02:17 PM
am I the only one who WANTS Vick to play again? And I am a UVA fan, so I have hated Vick longer than most everyone here...I want to see him playing for a terrible team for the league minimum....Vick was the most over-rated player ever and this will finally expose him as the mediocre QB he really is...The NFL is all about 2nd chances, which is why the Titans didn't cut Pacman - b.c he's actually good...I'd be happy to see this guy on the Browns sideline in 2010 holding a clipboard.

If he does play again look for him to play something other then QB and look for a team like the raiders to take a chance on him after all they like the thug players...

that is if the NFL lets him back in :dang:

Atlanta Dan
08-27-2007, 03:42 PM
am I the only one who WANTS Vick to play again? And I am a UVA fan, so I have hated Vick longer than most everyone here...I want to see him playing for a terrible team for the league minimum....Vick was the most over-rated player ever and this will finally expose him as the mediocre QB he really is...The NFL is all about 2nd chances, which is why the Titans didn't cut Pacman - b.c he's actually good...I'd be happy to see this guy on the Browns sideline in 2010 holding a clipboard.

Bring him back and have him get pancaked on every play like Ben was on that hit during the Ravens game in Baltimore last season.

The Duke
08-27-2007, 03:45 PM
Bring him back and have him get pancaked on every play like Ben was on that hit during the Ravens game in Baltimore last season.

Anthony Smith can do it :tt02:. Honestly, as much as I hate Vick I will miss the excitement he brought to the game, something we'll now only see in Vince Young(unless the curse gets him...)

CantStop85
08-27-2007, 04:52 PM
If he does play again look for him to play something other then QB and look for a team like the raiders to take a chance on him after all they like the thug players...

that is if the NFL lets him back in :dang:

Odds are if he comes back, a team will try to use him as a slasher or utility player or use him on kick returns. His career as a quarterback in the NFL is pretty much over, IMO.

On the ESPN, they brought up the interesting point that once out of jail, Vick could join the new football league, the UFL (it is the UFL right?). That would certainly help the rival league get on its feet.

Ohio Steeler
08-27-2007, 04:55 PM
I look for the Bungals or the Raiders to pick him up after he gets out after all they like the jail bait guys

MasterOfPuppets
08-27-2007, 05:05 PM
I look for the Bungals or the Raiders to pick him up after he gets out after all they like the jail bait guysyou meen the bungoles and raiders are pedophiles ???
:jawdrop:

stillers4me
08-27-2007, 05:10 PM
Vick has found God. That's what he shared with the country during his press conference about ten minutes ago. Now there's a shocker. Don't they all?

Jesus is easy to find when your find your self sharing a cell with Bubba.

MasterOfPuppets
08-27-2007, 05:56 PM
Jesus is easy to find when your find your self sharing a cell with Bubba.
especially if bubba already has herpes.....:toofunny:

tony hipchest
08-27-2007, 06:11 PM
especially if bubba already has herpes.....:toofunny:
are you saying vick is going to the 7-11 (more like 12-18) for some herpes slurpies? :banana:

i still say vick will be a hero in prison and will probably be running craps games in the yard.

Atlanta Dan
08-27-2007, 06:25 PM
Interesting to see the generational fault line on ESPN Countdown tonight

Emmitt ("mouth full of marbles") Smith and Keyshawn Johnson regard Vick's apology and acceptance of Jesus into his life as unquestionably sincere, with Emmitt saying this can be a learning experience for all of us (yes Emmitt - it is all about sharing in jocks' life experiences)

Tom Jackson says he is a skeptic and says you simply cannot undo 6 years of premeditated mayhem with a 4:52 apology - Jackson's body language as he sat back in his chair with arms crossed while Keyshawn and Emmitt gave their views was telling - he clearly was holding back from saying more.

My guess is Emmitt and Keyshawn represent the overwhelmingly prevailing view in NFL locker rooms to forgive such a great athlete (talent trumps all) while Berman says he has no doubt we are rooting for Vick's comeback (speak for yourself Swami).

More points on the board for Tom Jackson with me, who called out Limbaugh on the Donovan McNabb nonsense several years ago and is not cutting a black NFL star any slack either.

tony hipchest
08-27-2007, 06:41 PM
Interesting to see the generational fault line on ESPN Countdown tonight

Emmitt ("mouth full of marbles") Smith and Keyshawn Johnson regard Vick's apology and acceptance of Jesus into his life as unquestionably sincere, with Emmitt saying this can be a learning experience for all of us (yes Emmitt - it is all about sharing in jocks' life experiences)

.

thats the problem with emmitt. just because he finally learned at the ripe old age of 30-something that killing animals for fun and entertainment, he assumes the rest of us didnt learn the same at say age FOUR! :dang:

really, who the hell decided it was a good idea to give him a soapbox? i spent way too many years listenning to him defend the likes of sanders, newton, and irvin :crying01:

with vick officially admitting guilt, how much of a slam dunk case does the state of virginia have? (though with podunk poindexter at the helm, "slam dunk" is probably a poor choice of words)

MasterOfPuppets
08-27-2007, 06:43 PM
are you saying vick is going to the 7-11 (more like 12-18) for some herpes slurpies? :banana:

i still say vick will be a hero in prison and will probably be running craps games in the yard.he'll probably sponcer ****roach fights....:toofunny:

Atlanta Dan
08-27-2007, 06:49 PM
with vick officially admitting guilt, how much of a slam dunk case does the state of virginia have? (though with podunk poindexter at the helm, "slam dunk" is probably a poor choice of words)

Given his statements earlier this summer that this was a witch hunt against a famous young black man, Poindexter is simply trying to cover his ass with talk of prosecution while this is still a daily news story.

Any time Vick might serve on a state plea will run concurrently, not consecutively, with his federal sentence - Vick will never serve a day in state custody.

Ohio Steeler
08-27-2007, 07:01 PM
especially if bubba already has herpes.....:toofunny:

vick will be finding out what doggstyle just is :jawdrop:

tony hipchest
08-27-2007, 07:02 PM
Given his statements earlier this summer that this was a witch hunt against a famous young black man, Poindexter is simply trying to cover his ass with talk of prosecution while this is still a daily news story.

Any time Vick might serve on a state plea will run concurrently, not consecutively, with his federal sentence - Vick will never serve a day in state custody.interesting. and poindexter lacks the balls to push on the max 5 years per count of animal cruelty (8)? or would him persuing these charges prove it were a witch hunt (or is it 1 in the same)?

my fiancee loves nancy grace. as i watch the pre game i overheard a 2nd grand jury is convening in virginia.

Atlanta Dan
08-27-2007, 07:11 PM
In a few weeks Poindexter might decide the prevailing winds are blowing Vick's way back home.

Vick's supporters apparently outnumbered the critics in Richmond this morning.

As his gray Range Rover rolled up Main Street at 10:19 a.m., Vick was greeted with cheers and women jumping up and down and signs that said, "Ookie! We love you!" After he walked up a ramp through the double doors that led to the courthouse, his supporters sang, "We Shall Overcome," and chanted, "We love Mike.":dang:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2992999

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
08-27-2007, 07:37 PM
After reading Vick's "I'm sorry statement" it's apparent that it is shallow and self centered and he still doesn't get it. Oh boo hoo poor me, poor Michael Vick.

It's amazes to me that when someone is 1- going to jail or 2- is in jail how they find Jesus. I guess I should just bypass church and go straight to my local jail or prison because it appears that Jesus spends more times hanging out there than at church. WHO KNEW!

I really found this statement filled with humor...

"Like I said, for this - for this entire situation I never pointed the finger at anybody else, I accepted responsibility for my actions of what I did and now I have to pay the consequences for it."

Are you freaking kidding me??!!? :toofunny: He never accepted ANY responsibility for ANYTHING until all his dog killing buddies starting singing like canaries and pointed all fingers at him. Just by making that comment show how twisted his mind is. All his trying to do is save Michael Vick's arse. That's it.

I heard on the radio that the judge was not happy with him in court today and called him out. He asked if he accepted the plea agreement why did he waste his time (the judge) the last time he was in court and by pleading not guilty. This judge is not going to fool around with dog killing Vick and personally I think that Vick is going to be spending more time in prison than 18 months.

Of course for the next three hours during the pre-season game vs the Bungles we're going to have to listen to the idiots in the booth prop up Vick because he's taken that step toward "rehabilitation." Yeah okay whatever :banging: Hmmm I wonder if Mikey is watching the game. They keep saying how Harrington hasn't proven he could win in the NFL well fellas neither had Vick.

Atlanta Dan
08-28-2007, 07:48 AM
Apparently the Mike Vick redemption tour has pulled back into the garage to fine tune the message

Tuesday morning's much-anticipated radio interview with Michael Vick is off, Tom Joyner announced on his nationally syndicated program.

"He really wants to do it, but all of his advisers are advising him not to, because everyone is taking what he says out of context," Joyner told listeners Tuesday.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/28/vickradio_0828.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Sounds like there is some concern Mike might go off message in a manner that "everyone" (Judge Hudson?) :smile: might take "out of context."

alittlejazzbird
08-28-2007, 09:26 AM
Sounds like there is some concern Mike might go off message in a manner that "everyone" (Judge Hudson?) :smile: might take "out of context."

Hmmm, which part might we take out of context?

The part where he systematically funded a criminal enterprise for six years?

The part where he tortured defenseless animals?

The part where he "accepted complete responsibility" in July when his lawyer read a statement saying that he was innocent and looked forward to "clearing [my] good name?"

I was amazed in the first place that any attorney would agree to let him to be on a live call-in show. Those callers would eat him alive (personally, I was looking forward to hearing that!); this is a man with zero poise when he's put on the spot or criticized. And by the way, he WAS reading from notes yesterday at his apology party. He kept looking down to make sure he'd covered all the points his attorneys had carefully rehearsed with him. They may have been his own words, but trust me, he was instructed to follow the outline on the paper, and he practiced every single one of those words long and hard before he got up there.

He'll show up on Barbara Walters or Dateline or somewhere "safe" where he doesn't have to interact with an audience and his interviewer will lob softballs and gaze sympathetically at him the whole time. He'll get multiple takes to practice his crying on cue.

memphissteelergirl
08-28-2007, 09:38 AM
In a few weeks Poindexter might decide the prevailing winds are blowing Vick's way back home.

Vick's supporters apparently outnumbered the critics in Richmond this morning.

As his gray Range Rover rolled up Main Street at 10:19 a.m., Vick was greeted with cheers and women jumping up and down and signs that said, "Ookie! We love you!" Ookie? :wtf:After he walked up a ramp through the double doors that led to the courthouse, his supporters sang, "We Shall Overcome," and chanted, "We love Mike.":dang:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2992999


"We Shall Overcome?" Are you friggin kidding me? That is an insult to every person who marched, bled and died for civil rights in this country. This is not a case of a man being denied human dignity just because of the color of his skin. This is a case of a man who participated in illegal activity, thought he was above the law because of his celebrity, and got caught. The fact that he's black does not give him right to claim he's being persecuted. Priviledge comes with responsibilty, Mike. Too bad you did not learn that lesson sooner.

(OK...vent over...)

meanjoecoop
08-28-2007, 09:43 AM
:busted: DAMAGE CONTROL! DAMAGE CONTROL! Somebody play the Jesus card!!!

?Dog fighting is a terrible thing, and I did reject it. I'm upset with myself, and, you know, through this situation I found Jesus and asked him for forgiveness and turned my life over to God. And I think that's the right thing to do as of right now.?
? Michael Vick

http://thesportsguys.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/michaelvickdog.jpghttp://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00157/images/jesuschristpic2.jpg

?God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image?

"It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly"

The "golden rule" proposed by Jesus: "Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to others"

:shake01: Sorry Mikey...I don?t see the resemblance.

alittlejazzbird
08-28-2007, 09:53 AM
“Dog fighting is a terrible thing, and I did reject it. I'm upset with myself, and, you know, through this situation I found Jesus and asked him for forgiveness and turned my life over to God. And I think that's the right thing to do as of right now.”
– Michael Vick

Well, duh.....Mike, ya think it's the right thing to do "as of right now?" I don't expect him to say "you know, I still think dogfighting is a lot of fun and I really don't get all the fuss, but if it'll earn me less jail time, then I guess religion is the way to go"?

He can find God or whomever he wants, but if my feelings mirror those of most people, then most of us think that he's got years and years worth of actions and good behavior down the road before he'll begin to convince anyone that he's honestly remorseful for what he did (as opposed to honestly remorseful that he got caught).

Should he get another chance to play football? Sure. Let him give it a try. We know the Steelers wouldn't touch him if he were the only quarterback alive on the planet, so no worries there. I want to see which desperate enough owner tries to sell Michael Vick to local and national sponsors and season ticket holders. And I want to see $130 million man Michael Vick sign a contract for league base salary. The spectacle should be pretty entertaining.

alittlejazzbird
08-28-2007, 09:55 AM
"We Shall Overcome?" Are you friggin kidding me? That is an insult to every person who marched, bled and died for civil rights in this country. This is not a case of a man being denied human dignity just because of the color of his skin. This is a case of a man who participated in illegal activity, thought he was above the law because of his celebrity, and got caught. The fact that he's black does not give him right to claim he's being persecuted. Priviledge comes with responsibilty, Mike. Too bad you did not learn that lesson sooner.

(OK...vent over...)

A big AMEN to you, sister. I couldn't agree more.

X-Terminator
08-28-2007, 10:06 AM
"We Shall Overcome?" Are you friggin kidding me? That is an insult to every person who marched, bled and died for civil rights in this country. This is not a case of a man being denied human dignity just because of the color of his skin. This is a case of a man who participated in illegal activity, thought he was above the law because of his celebrity, and got caught. The fact that he's black does not give him right to claim he's being persecuted. Priviledge comes with responsibilty, Mike. Too bad you did not learn that lesson sooner.

(OK...vent over...)

Ah, you don't mince words either, I see! :wink02:

I agree completely.

meanjoecoop
08-28-2007, 10:24 AM
Should he get another chance to play football? Sure. Let him give it a try. We know the Steelers wouldn't touch him if he were the only quarterback alive on the planet, so no worries there.

Thats because our running game can usually stand on its own. :wink02: No QB needed. :flap:

Atlanta Dan
08-28-2007, 05:09 PM
When Vick gets around to speaking i am confident he will show up on Tom Joyner

If I had a link to the audio i would provide it, but in explaining Vick's absence from his show this morning, Atlanta news played audio in which Tom Joyner said:

"Vick knows where his support is"

"The time does not fit the crime" and

"Black people are forgiving"

Glad to see racism is only a problem for white folks.

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
08-28-2007, 07:04 PM
I want to see which desperate enough owner tries to sell Michael Vick to local and national sponsors and season ticket holders. And I want to see $130 million man Michael Vick sign a contract for league base salary. The spectacle should be pretty entertaining.

Here's 3 owners right off the top of my head

Dan Snyder
Jerry Jones
Al Davis

alittlejazzbird
08-28-2007, 07:10 PM
Here's 3 owners right off the top of my head

Dan Snyder
Jerry Jones
Al Davis

Yep, the exact same ones I thought of. It'll be quite a show.

Dylan
08-28-2007, 08:21 PM
hAHAHA.. the jerk deserves it

Godfather
08-29-2007, 08:22 AM
Yep, the exact same ones I thought of. It'll be quite a show.

I would say the Bungholes, but they already have a QB, and one who unlike Vick is capable of throwing a football.

So this is more likely to be his NFL future:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d608b3127cceba0bae2651aa00000026108AcMmrlu4atx

tony hipchest
09-03-2007, 11:20 AM
and now for a weekly vick fix. i have been hearing about how the language in vicks contract is gonna make it very difficult for the falcons to recoup the 20+ mil in signing bonuses. this is a good summation:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d801faeb4&template=with-video&confirm=true

Posted: 08/31/2007
Lines being drawn in legal battle over Vick's bonus money
By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com



The most interesting piece of football business this summer is the interpretation of Michael Vick's contract.

It's clear he isn't playing for the Falcons in 2007 and his $6 million salary will not be paid. Consequently, the club will receive a $6 million credit to its salary cap. All year, the Falcons had Vick accounted for on the salary cap sheet and now they get to use that cap space to secure other players to long-term deals if they wish to. That's the easy part of the business. Recouping bonus money the Falcons previously paid to Vick is the challenging part.

The Falcons want to recoup millions of dollars in bonus pay because Vick will not provide the future services the club says he was paid to provide. The NFL Players Association, on Vick's behalf, will argue that the bonus money paid to Vick was for services performed, and therefore already earned by Vick.

Due to the precedent set in the Ashley Lelie arbitration, Atlanta had better have some strong default language in the contract with Vick if it hopes to recoup much of the $22 million dollars the Falcons believe Vick has received but not yet earned.

The bonus money in question has to be broken down into a number of categories to understand why each segment of dollars received by Vick may fall under different interpretations:

Rookie Option Bonus: Vick had an $8 million "option bonus" to extend his rookie contract, which was triggered in early 2002. That bonus was prorated at $1.142 million per year through the 2008 season. There are two years left on that bonus charge. If the Falcons can establish that the option bonus was for future services that Vick won't render, then they should expect to recoup $2.284 million.

2004 Renegotiation: Vick and the Falcons renegotiated his original rookie contract on Dec. 23, 2004, and Vick received a $7.5 million signing bonus. The club took advantage of some salary cap management tools and prorated this bonus over six future years at a charge of $1.25 million per year. Three years are left on that bonus amount, a total of $3.75 million, that the team asserts Vick hasn't earned. Atlanta may have a good chance to recoup this portion because it was a signing bonus, which is traditionally recognized as being paid for future services.

2005 Renegotiation: Vick and the Falcons executed another renegotiation on Feb. 28, 2005. This is where things get into a gray area and where agents, the NFLPA and the entire NFL will be watching with great interest.

This transaction was probably executed on this date to clear cap space for the upcoming free agency period due to start on March 1. The Falcons guaranteed a roster bonus of $22.5 million, and designated it for salary cap purposes as an OATSB item -- "Other Amount Treated as Signing Bonus." This conversion gave the club the right to prorate the $22.5 million over five years at a rate of $4.5 million per year, as if it were a signing bonus. Roster bonuses are fully charged against the cap in the year they are received. The Falcons saved $18 million in salary cap space in 2005 with this maneuver, since the roster bonus would have counted $22.5 million against the cap if not for the OATSB conversion. At the time, this renegotiation resulted in no change to Vick; he got his $22.5 million.

Vick played in 2005 and 2006, so the Falcons are not asserting a claim for the portion of the money allocated to those years. Since it appears he will not play in 2007-09, the Falcons want to recoup $16.5 million of this bonus. In the original contract, prior to conversion of this roster bonus to an OATSB amount, the roster bonus became guaranteed on the fifth day of the 2005 league year, approximately March 6, and Vick was protected against football and non-football injury. This will be a very tough hurdle for the Falcons to clear, as they must prove that this bonus was for future services and not earned through past performance, if they hope to recoup the $16 million they allege is unearned.

Contract restructuring: In Vick's original rookie deal, he was scheduled for a $7 million roster bonus in 2006. The club elected to convert $3.4 million to an OATSB amount by guaranteeing it. For salary cap purposes, $680,000 per year is prorated annually for 2006 through 2010. The Falcons agree '06 is earned, but assert the remaining years will not be met and wants the $2.62 million back ($680,000 a year for four years). Again, the Falcons are going to have to prove the money was for future services and not past services.

This is complicated, to say the least. The issues in play here are:

1. Is there adequate default language in the contract Vick signed for the Falcons to support their claims?

2. Does the Ashley Lelie case apply here? If so, to which of the four bonuses? In the Lelie case, the arbitrator said Lelie did not have to pay back the roster bonus money to the Broncos because he earned that money from past performances.

3. Does the salary cap management technique of OATSB, where bonus money is treated like a signing bonus, automatically mean it is a signing bonus?

4. What is the ripple effect to other clubs and players who may have similar language in their contracts?

Finally, I would take an educated guess here that the Falcons could recover the money in points 1 and 2 for a total of $6.034 million, but struggle to ever see the money in points 3 and 4. Which leads me to my last point -- terminating Vick's contract.

The Falcons could announce on March 1, 2008, that Vick is a June 1 cut. That means they could then spread out the remaining bonus salary cap charges over two seasons (2008-09). If they get relief from points 1 and 2, then the cap hit for 2008 would be $5.18 million and another $5.18 million in '09. By then, the salary cap will be upwards of $130 million and the charge will be of little significance. If the club fails on all points, it still isn't that painful of a cap charge over two years at $7.57 million in 2008 and $7.32 million in 2009.

Regardless of the cap consequences, this is still a battle for the owner's cash, lots of it.


from what i understand listenning to the talking heads on the radio, vicks rookie option bonus is going to be the easiest to reclaim and possibly all they can reclaim.

Indy_Steelers
09-03-2007, 07:44 PM
and now for a weekly vick fix. i have been hearing about how the language in vicks contract is gonna make it very difficult for the falcons to recoup the 20+ mil in signing bonuses.

They should not be able to get it back. It is up front money. It is the only money guaranteed to an NFL player. I do not see how they can get it back.

Bobby Socks
09-05-2007, 02:16 PM
I don't really think Vick did anything wrong. While dogfighting is illegal in the U.S. it's a popular sport in other countries like Afghanistan. You people have something against other cultures?

It all comes down to one thing: racism. If Vick were a white guy the feds wouldn't even look at him. It's not like he was killing people.

fansince'76
09-05-2007, 02:19 PM
I don't really think Vick did anything wrong. While dogfighting is illegal in the U.S. it's a popular sport in other countries like Afghanistan. You people have something against other cultures?

It all comes down to one thing: racism. If Vick were a white guy the feds wouldn't even look at him. It's not like he was killing people.

You're right - if it were Peyton Manning, it would have all been swept under the rug. Get real.

Livinginthe past
09-05-2007, 03:10 PM
I don't really think Vick did anything wrong. While dogfighting is illegal in the U.S. it's a popular sport in other countries like Afghanistan. You people have something against other cultures?

It all comes down to one thing: racism. If Vick were a white guy the feds wouldn't even look at him. It's not like he was killing people.

Well aren't you a real Mr. Controversial?

Shame it took you so long to post your thoughts on this, im guessing you had a bunch of other forums you had to visit first, just to see how many bites you could get.

Please come back again.

Atlanta Dan
09-05-2007, 03:56 PM
Well aren't you a real Mr. Controversial?

Shame it took you so long to post your thoughts on this, im guessing you had a bunch of other forums you had to visit first, just to see how many bites you could get.

Please come back again.

:sofunny:

LITP - Whoopi Goldberg is a Ms. Controversial, not a Mr. Controversial

Livinginthe past
09-05-2007, 05:01 PM
:sofunny:

LITP - Whoopi Goldberg is a Ms. Controversial, not a Mr. Controversial

Ha.

It took me a quick google search to work out what you were going on about, me being out of the loop over here!

Some people will do anything to give their flagging ratings a shot in the arm.

"I just thought it was interesting, because it seemed like a light went off in his head when he realized this was something that the entire country didn't appreciate," she said.

I think the 'light came on' when the Feds started the big squeeze and Vick realised he might be brought to justice.

I'd still hate for that half wit Poindexter to get any type of political or professional gain from this episode.

steelerbackr4life
09-05-2007, 05:41 PM
Ha.
I think the 'light came on' when the Feds started the big squeeze and Vick realised he might be brought to justice.


How true. Always boggles my mind how
no one is ever sorry for something or realizes how wrong they were until after they get caught.