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lamberts-lost-tooth
07-17-2007, 04:31 PM
Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:18:36 -0700

ESPNews reports Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick has been indicted in the dog fighting probe done in Surry County, Va.

I am sure there will be more to follow!!!!

ChronoCross
07-17-2007, 04:37 PM
http://profootballtalk.com/bewareofvick.jpg

From PFT

VICK IS INDICTED

Falcons quarterback Mike Vick has been indicted on multiple charges by a federal grand jury in Virginia.

The charges are, per ESPN.com (which not long ago declared Vick was unlikely to be indicted), "conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in animal fighting venture."

Three others were indicted as well -- Purnell Peace, Quanis Phillips and Tony Taylor. Phillips' name appeared as a contact person on Vick's K-9 Kennels web site.

Livinginthe past
07-17-2007, 04:40 PM
Thats great news.

I hope he goes down - say goodbye to your football career, scumbag.

fansince'76
07-17-2007, 04:41 PM
NOW we'll find out how much teeth Goodell's new conduct policy really has....

CantStop85
07-17-2007, 04:42 PM
Well, I bet Atlanta feels a lot better about letting go of Matt Schaub now.

SteelCityMan786
07-17-2007, 04:44 PM
Well, I bet Atlanta feels a lot better about letting go of Matt Schaub now.

:sofunny:

ChronoCross
07-17-2007, 04:47 PM
http://nancynall.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/pitbull.jpg

HometownGal
07-17-2007, 04:48 PM
http://a4.vox.com/6a00c22523d69f8e1d00d09e6dd91cbe2b-320pi

I think his sentence should be having his cahoonans chewed off by a dog. Oh wait - he doesn't have any, silly me. :dang:

The Duke
07-17-2007, 04:48 PM
Vick, it was not a pleasure to have you in the NFL, good luck

MACH1
07-17-2007, 04:50 PM
Hmmmm........I hear Culpepper needs a job.

Black@Gold Forever32
07-17-2007, 04:56 PM
What I love about this whole dog fighting thing is some people really don't think its a big deal....First off its a felony.....So right there should tell the idiots right there thats why dog fighting is why its a big deal....Second its just cruel to do that to animals........I hope Vick never plays another NFL game.....He can go play in the United Football League or whatever league that is set to open in 2008. ....

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-17-2007, 05:00 PM
Hmmmm........I hear Culpepper needs a job.

That may be a very good call!!!

tony hipchest
07-17-2007, 05:04 PM
i think he will be found innocent and goodell will apologize for scrutinizing him.

the whole case probably hinges on offering a plea deal to 1 of the other 3 "associates" in hopes that they snitch to the authorities in order to land vick. it wont happen. these guys are proffessional criminals and not afraid to go to jail. there will be a HUGE vick payday waiting for them when they get out.

chris mortensen just said that since vick is not a repeat offender, goodell will probably have to wait for a conviction and that he wont be able to be suspended without justice running its course. vick will play. the commissioner cant do crap.

RoethlisBURGHer
07-17-2007, 05:05 PM
:wave: Goodbye Michael Vick,don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out.

Atlanta Dan
07-17-2007, 05:18 PM
i think he will be found innocent and goodell will apologize for scrutinizing him.

the whole case probably hinges on offering a plea deal to 1 of the other 3 "associates" in hopes that they snitch to the authorities in order to land vick. it wont happen. these guys are proffessional criminals and not afraid to go to jail. there will be a HUGE vick payday waiting for them when they get out.

chris mortensen just said that since vick is not a repeat offender, goodell will probably have to wait for a conviction and that he wont be able to be suspended without justice running its course. vick will play. the commissioner cant do crap.

Don't bet on Vick walking away from this Tony - this is the Justice Dept., not a local DA who operates a bait shop on the side and needs to run for re-election.

As for Mortensen, ESPN of course has been saying Vick is in the clear when not running such breaking news events as "who is more now?" This is a PR nightmare for the NFL in general and Arthur Blank + Nike in particular.

Here is the link to the indictment, with numerous references to 4 CWs (cooperating witnesses) who presumably already have cut their plea deals. IMHO the USAO for the ED Virginia did not cut those deals to nab "P Funk", "Q", or "T", but to nab #7 in your program, who also goes by the name "Ookie" in the attached indictment.

http://alt.cimedia.com/ajc/pdf/vick0717.pdf

Maybe Vick can get a commutation if the sentence is "excessive."

stillers4me
07-17-2007, 05:22 PM
It's profiling, I tell ya....profiling!!!! :old:

I gotta feel bad for the Falcon fans.........what a let down to have the player with the key position on your team be such a scumbag.

MasterOfPuppets
07-17-2007, 05:35 PM
lol....i gotta go check out the falcons board...:cya:

tony hipchest
07-17-2007, 05:40 PM
Don't bet on Vick walking away from this Tony - this is the Justice Dept., not a local DA who operates a bait shop on the side and needs to run for re-election.

As for Mortensen, ESPN of course has been saying Vick is in the clear when not running such breaking news events as "who is more now?" This is a PR nightmare for the NFL in general and Arthur Blank + Nike in particular.

Here is the link to the indictment, with numerous references to 4 CWs (cooperating witnesses) who presumably already have cut their plea deals. IMHO the USAO for the ED Virginia did not cut those deals to nab "P Funk", "Q", or "T", but to nab #7 in your program, who also goes by the name "Ookie" in the attached indictment.

http://alt.cimedia.com/ajc/pdf/vick0717.pdf

Maybe Vick can get a commutation if the sentence is "excessive." :dang: even though i knew it was federal indictments, i was still in the frame of mind it would be his lawyers vs. the VA po-dunks. so i guess its gonna be better than marcia clark and chris darden handling the case?

thanks for the link. the fact that they have 4 CW's definitely shows the feds are more into getting the "trafficker/drug lord" big fish, as opposed to the "dealer on the street selling dime bags" small fry. depending on how loud they sing it could be a slam dunk case. i gotta think they wont squeal unless they feel no threat from getting whacked by an "enterouge" member currently in prison.

oh yeah, "whose more now" absolutely sucks. :sofunny:

xXTheSteelKingsXx
07-17-2007, 06:05 PM
Wow thats 18 posts I just read and no joke about the Bungles!!! We must be slipping.

xXTheSteelKingsXx
07-17-2007, 06:07 PM
But in all seriosness Im glad that they're taking down these guys.

MACH1
07-17-2007, 06:36 PM
Wetting down a dog and electrocuting it because it lost a fight and others, hanging, drowning, body slamming to the ground and other methods for poor performing dogs.

They should do the same to him. IMO

tony hipchest
07-17-2007, 06:46 PM
another thing Total Access brought up that i really didnt think about was that the NFL players who typically go to trial usually have theri cout dates delayed untill the off season. the 3 other defendants who are not NFL players have the right to a "speedy" trial.

Rons lawyers got their hands full.

ChronoCross
07-17-2007, 06:52 PM
another thing Total Access brought up that i really didnt think about was that the NFL players who typically go to trial usually have theri cout dates delayed untill the off season. the 3 other defendants who are not NFL players have the right to a "speedy" trial.

Rons lawyers got their hands full.

Also gives them guys there first shot at plea's to shaft vick and get lesser time. Even tho everyone pretty well knows vick is guilty. How much of his fame will get him off. Our how much money will he spend on the judges new pool.

http://www.santorini-hotels.info/Santorini%20Hotels%20Images/Apartment%20Chromata/Set%201/Chromata%20Luxury%20hotel%20Santorini%20Pool.jpg

OneForTheToe
07-17-2007, 07:07 PM
No way Vick's trial is before the season is over, IMO. If The comish is waiting to see what happens in the courts, then I'd say Vick plays this year. The comish will just have to hope that the Falcons are middle of the road this year, which keeps them out of the news better than if tey are very good or very poor.

stillers4me
07-17-2007, 08:06 PM
Wow thats 18 posts I just read and no joke about the Bungles!!! We must be slipping.

It's profiling, I tell ya....profiling!!!! :old:

.......a reference to Marvin Lewis.

Would I let you down? :sofunny:

RoethlisBURGHer
07-17-2007, 08:09 PM
No way he lets Vick play out the season.Vick will be suspended before the season starts,probally before training camp.

My prediction: Indefinate suspension.If found innocent,he comes back into the league immediatly.If found guilty,he is kicked out for good.

I don't think his money and fame will get him off for this.This is a federal prosecution which means federal judges and laywers...not some DA who runs a convienant store on the side.He won't be able to bribe anyone,or outspend the prosecution like OK Simpson did.

If/when convicted,he'll be given the maximum scentance for his crimes,which will end his career anyways.

Godfather
07-17-2007, 08:09 PM
chris mortensen just said that since vick is not a repeat offender, goodell will probably have to wait for a conviction and that he wont be able to be suspended without justice running its course. vick will play. the commissioner cant do crap.

I was thinking the same thing. Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones, and Chris Henry were multiple recidivists.

RoethlisBURGHer
07-17-2007, 08:13 PM
I was thinking the same thing. Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones, and Chris Henry were multiple recidivists.

He may not be a repeat lawbreaker (that we know of at least) but he is a repeat scumbag.

The Ron Mexico situation (good job Mike,spreading the gift that keeps on giving!)

Flipping to bird to the Falcon fans

Now the dogfighting

tony hipchest
07-17-2007, 08:18 PM
He may not be a repeat lawbreaker (that we know of at least) but he is a repeat scumbag.

The Ron Mexico situation (good job Mike,spreading the gift that keeps on giving!)

Flipping to bird to the Falcon fans

Now the dogfightingso if vick gets a strike for having herpes does brady get a strike for inpregnating a girl out of wedlock?

Atlanta Dan
07-17-2007, 08:38 PM
No way Vick's trial is before the season is over, IMO. If The comish is waiting to see what happens in the courts, then I'd say Vick plays this year. The comish will just have to hope that the Falcons are middle of the road this year, which keeps them out of the news better than if tey are very good or very poor.

Agreed no trial for anyone until 2008; plenty of motions to be hashed out before then.

However, it is not as if that kicks the can down the road and everyone will just cheer for #7 until then. Atlanta sports talk tonight is having fun with Arthur Blank having said for the last several years what an upstanding organization he has developed in Atlanta. Combine that with Blank having indulged Vick (firing Dan Reeves; pushing Vick's wheelchair around when Vick broke his leg) and a lot of fans are saying that Blank will have some problems if he just says this is a league matter. Vick had alienated a lot of folks with Ron Mexico, flipping the bird to the fans, and his special "jewelry bottle" even before this.

Now Vick is in deep, deep water playing in a state where the most beloved team (college or pro) is named the Dawgs and has Ugga the bulldog as its mascot, given this allegation on page 17 of the indictment - “In or about April of 2007, [two other defendants] and Vick executed approximately eight dogs that did not perform well in ‘testing’ sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road by various methods, including hanging, drowning and slamming at least one dog’s body to the ground.”

To give everyone a flavor for how amped up this situation is in Atlanta, a column by Atlanta Journal-Constitution columnist Mark Bradley (He is not a big fan of #7 - ) ends with this admonition:


http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2007/07/17/what_do_we_make.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

AJC.COM NOTE: Due to the volatile subject nature of the Vick investigation, this blog will be opened for comments on Wednesday morning. Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

This is going to tear up the Atlanta sports community..

ChronoCross
07-17-2007, 09:07 PM
Hopefully they kick valtrex king to the curve. I wonder if they will give valtrex to pitbull before bubba gets a hold of him in prison. You know they do not want every prisoner having outbreaks.

RoethlisBURGHer
07-17-2007, 09:19 PM
so if vick gets a strike for having herpes does brady get a strike for inpregnating a girl out of wedlock?

Vick gets a strike for spreading it without letting the woman he was having intercourse know he had the STD.Reports said he never mentioned it to her before he boinked her.That makes him a scumbag.

If just having it made him a scumbag,then my best friend would be one too...and he got his from high school wrestling (herpes of the mouth,not the cash and prizes).He has let his two GF's he's had since he contracted herpes that he has it,which is the correct thing to do when you have any type of STD.

Brady is having a child out of wedlock.That is something completley different that spreading an STD.He isn't handling it well,which doesn't make him a scumbag yet (lets see how involved he is in the kid's life first).if having a child out of wedlock made you a scumbag,then most of the people who have kids nowadays would all be scumbags.

Crushzilla
07-17-2007, 09:23 PM
Am I correct in assuming that this case would be heard by a regular jury of citizens?

If that is the case, I see heartstrings really getting tugged in the prosecutions favor. Dogs that were not only forced to fight each other, but shot, hanged, electrocuted, beaten to death by, supposedly, Vick and co.?

I read most of the indictment, but it was becoming repetitive. By the sounds of it they have people ready to testify since they have already disclosed so many dates and info about six years of fights.

I can't see Vick NOT getting suspended...
As someone in a Falcons forum put it.
If a CEO is accused of embezzlement
A teacher accused of molestation

Would they not get a little "vacation" to figure things out? I would think/hope so.

So why not a Pro Athlete who is accused of organizing and participating in an illegal gambling ring?

ChronoCross
07-17-2007, 10:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW0dhh_Aj6A

here ya go.. tribute to vick kennel.. lol

Atlanta Dan
07-17-2007, 10:06 PM
Am I correct in assuming that this case would be heard by a regular jury of citizens?

If that is the case, I see heartstrings really getting tugged in the prosecutions favor. Dogs that were not only forced to fight each other, but shot, hanged, electrocuted, beaten to death by, supposedly, Vick and co.?

I read most of the indictment, but it was becoming repetitive. By the sounds of it they have people ready to testify since they have already disclosed so many dates and info about six years of fights.

I can't see Vick NOT getting suspended...
As someone in a Falcons forum put it.
If a CEO is accused of embezzlement
A teacher accused of molestation

Would they not get a little "vacation" to figure things out? I would think/hope so.

So why not a Pro Athlete who is accused of organizing and participating in an illegal gambling ring?

T.H. and I had this discussion the other day in the context of whether a player should get suspended for a first DWI. Under the "substance abuse policy" no, but does the "code of conduct" trump that? In your analogies, the CEO has no CBA and the teacher very well may go on leave without pay once an indictment is returned pursuant to the terms of the CBA if a teacher's union is in the picture . With no union or contract you are an employee at will and, absent discrimination in violation of federal law, the employer can terminate you for any reason at all. It all depends on the terms of the CBA or other employment contract.

My bet is Vick's lawyers come out swinging and we will hear lots of references to the Duke lacrosse prosecution by his supporters in the coming days. I also look for boycotts of companies Vick endorses and, for that matter, the Falcons. This is going to get ugly.

tony hipchest
07-17-2007, 10:13 PM
Vick gets a strike for spreading it without letting the woman he was having intercourse know he had the STD.Reports said he never mentioned it to her before he boinked her.That makes him a scumbag.

If just having it made him a scumbag,then my best friend would be one too...and he got his from high school wrestling (herpes of the mouth,not the cash and prizes).He has let his two GF's he's had since he contracted herpes that he has it,which is the correct thing to do when you have any type of STD.

Brady is having a child out of wedlock.That is something completley different that spreading an STD.He isn't handling it well,which doesn't make him a scumbag yet (lets see how involved he is in the kid's life first).if having a child out of wedlock made you a scumbag,then most of the people who have kids nowadays would all be scumbags.actually vick doesnt get a strike for that. there is no "scumbag clause" in the player conduct policy, and while your personal opinion is appreciated i doubt goodell is basing suspensions on how some highschool kid who got mouth herpes from wrestling, conducted himelf with girls afterwards.

personally, i feel if goodell wants to suspend vick, going to trial on federal felony crimes stands by itself. im more interested in the legal ramifications and how the players union than i am who thinks hes a scumbag and who doesnt. i think its pretty unanimous that vick is a scumbag just like it is with ray lewis. that never stopped ray lewis from taking the field, and he was inderectly behind 2 humans dying, not 8 dogs.

tony hipchest
07-17-2007, 10:24 PM
T.H. and I had this discussion the other day in the context of whether a player should get suspended for a first DWI. Under the "substance abuse policy" no, but does the "code of conduct" trump that? In your analogies, the CEO has no CBA and the teacher very well may go on leave without pay once an indictment is returned pursuant to the terms of the CBA if a teacher's union is in the picture . With no union or contract you are an employee at will and, absent discrimination in violation of federal law, the employer can terminate you for any reason at all. It all depends on the terms of the CBA or other employment contract.

My bet is Vick's lawyers come out swinging and we will hear lots of references to the Duke lacrosse prosecution by his supporters in the coming days. I also look for boycotts of companies Vick endorses and, for that matter, the Falcons. This is going to get ugly.excellent and informative explaination.

initial OJ and ray ray cynicizm (throw in jacko), had me thinking this would another simple case where the high profile celebrity just wins over the jury and judge and walks. however, like you said, this is dealing with the feds and actual eyewitnesses.

i never even gave a second thought to the public perception of all the GA locals being so loyal to the "bulldogs". it may seem trivial on the surface, but then i think of tj douchbag wiping his shoe with the terrible towel and what type of emotions that stirred up.

in the case of the feds vs vick, is there protocol to where that trial would be held? would it be in the nearest federal court to where the crime was committed, or would it be wherever the govt wanted to have it?

Atlanta Dan
07-17-2007, 10:45 PM
excellent and informative explaination.

initial OJ and ray ray cynicizm (throw in jacko), had me thinking this would another simple case where the high profile celebrity just wins over the jury and judge and walks. however, like you said, this is dealing with the feds and actual eyewitnesses.

i never even gave a second thought to the public perception of all the GA locals being so loyal to the "bulldogs". it may seem trivial on the surface, but then i think of tj douchbag wiping his shoe with the terrible towel and what type of emotions that stirred up.

in the case of the feds vs vick, is there protocol to where that trial would be held? would it be in the nearest federal court to where the crime was committed, or would it be wherever the govt wanted to have it?

The indictment was returned by a grand jury sitting in the Eastern District of Virginia, Richmond Division - there are 94 federal judicial districts, often more than one in a state, and sometime divisions within a district - the districts' breakdown is by state and, then for districts & divisions within a state, by county . For example, Pittsburgh is in the Western District of Pennsylvania (link to map here - http://www.fedstats.gov/mapstats/fjd/ ).

When conduct occurs in multiple jurisdictions prosecutors have lot of leeway where to seek an indictment. For example, it appears the property owned by Vick was in Smithfield VA, which is Isle of Wight County in the Eastern District Of Virginia, Norfolk Division. My bet is the federal prosecutors preferred a Richmond Division jury pool to a Norfolk Division jury pool so they presented the indictment to a Richmond Division grand jury.

Court proceedings and any trial will be in Richmond VA. Vick will make his initial appearance in Richmond before whichever magistrate judge has duty that day. A magistrate judge sitting in Richmond will be randomly assigned to handle pretrial proceedings and a U.S. District Judge sitting in Richmond will be randomly assigned as trial judge. Pretrial rulings by the magistrate judge on such issues as motions to suppress evidence can be appealed to the trial judge prior to trial.

tony hipchest
07-17-2007, 10:58 PM
thanks. thats kinda what i was thinking. since youre so close to his fanbase, and i know what a local hero (sportswise) he has become there, if a trial were held near atlanta do you think he would have the benefit of the fanbase/ local jury pool, or is it beyond that stage, to where he would be disadvantaged. or does he have a 50/50 split of support?

of course this is just a hypothetical. i think it would be quickly moved with the reasonning he couldnt (or the state couldnt) get a fair trial either way.

Dynasty
07-17-2007, 11:01 PM
im very interested to know who the jury would be... a jury of his peers would be highly-paid nfl players... but hopefully if that's the case Clinton Portis isnt on the jury


EDIT: w00t 500 posts!!!!!

Atlanta Dan
07-17-2007, 11:24 PM
thanks. thats kinda what i was thinking. since youre so close to his fanbase, and i know what a local hero (sportswise) he has become there, if a trial were held near atlanta do you think he would have the benefit of the fanbase/ local jury pool, or is it beyond that stage, to where he would be disadvantaged. or does he have a 50/50 split of support?

of course this is just a hypothetical. i think it would be quickly moved with the reasonning he couldnt (or the state couldnt) get a fair trial either way.

Vick would not be convicted by an Atlanta jury, but I do not think he would be acquitted either. The jury would hang on racial/socioeconomic lines. Mr. Mexico ain't a hero to everyone in these parts.

Race is still the flash point for a lot of what goes in Atlanta, with a thriving black community in one of the most Republican/conservative states in the nation. Our current judicial soap opera is the defendant who, as a 17 year old black high school athlete, had consensual oral sex with a 15 year old girl (how do we know it was consensual? - it was videotaped!). Under Georgia law, that got him a conviction for statutory rape and a mandatory 10 year prison sentence.:jawdrop: Al Sharpton has been a recent visitor here to express his disappointment regarding the conviction.

Vick's indictment will just add napalm to such ATL debates.

tony hipchest
07-17-2007, 11:26 PM
im very interested to know who the jury would be... a jury of his peers would be highly-paid nfl players... but hopefully if that's the case Clinton Portis isnt on the jury


EDIT: w00t 500 posts!!!!!lol. well if a jury of his peers meant 12 people who were worth more than $100,000,000 i think he would be convicted before a drop of evidence was heard just for being a punk, thug, dumbass.

tony hipchest
07-17-2007, 11:42 PM
Race is still the flash point for a lot of what goes in Atlanta, with a thriving black community in one of the most Republican/conservative states in the nation. Our current judicial soap opera is the defendant who, as a 17 year old black high school athlete, had consensual oral sex with a 15 year old girl (how do we know it was consensual? - it was videotaped!). Under Georgia law, that got him a conviction for statutory rape and a mandatory 10 year prison sentence.:jawdrop: Al Sharpton has been a recent visitor here to express his disappointment regarding the conviction.
.i saw a special on tv about that a while back. i was pretty appaled and felt sorry for the kid. ive done the exact same "crime", although i dont believe 17 and 15 is punishable in this state. regarless i doubt many teenagers are checking local statutes in the heat of the moment, before receiving a consensual hummer .

no offense, but besides the humidity, the racial tensions and this type of BS that still exists is what will keep me from ever doing more than a brief visit to the dirty south, if i have any say about it.

MACH1
07-17-2007, 11:56 PM
I believe the kid was released not to long ago. I think the state dropped the sentence.

Anyways maybe he can go visit vick in the slammer.

steelpride12
07-18-2007, 01:41 AM
HA well nice seeing get sacked Vick have fun in jail!

tschnip
07-18-2007, 02:34 AM
Regardless of what we all think, I wonder how Crumpler is going to feel being Dante's #1 target?

Blah! Blah! Blah!
07-18-2007, 03:55 AM
No way Vick walks. Prez Busch passed a bill in early may regarding animal fighting. This is the perfect situation to set an example. Vick may plea-bargain at best. Lets see how much he talks and if there are any other repercussions in the leaque. Gamblings could be a big issue as well regarding players.

Preacher
07-18-2007, 04:17 AM
No way Vick walks. Prez Busch passed a bill in early may regarding animal fighting. This is the perfect situation to set an example. Vick may plea-bargain at best. Lets see how much he talks and if there are any other repercussions in the leaque. Gamblings could be a big issue as well regarding players.

ROTFL... Thank you for showing respect to the president... by calling him by his title (something that should be done with ALL presidents), but I can tell your a Pittsburgher... cause he isn't associated with the beer! Busch... Actually, it is BUsh!

LOLOLOL... I know, it was probably just a typo, but it was too good to pass up!

:wink02:

Blah! Blah! Blah!
07-18-2007, 04:36 AM
Nope I am a dreaded Pats fan. :jammin: I was being PC, If i wrote my honest name it would be more like
Prez @@#^#*@*@#((#@&(@((@(*()(*()*)(*)((W^^@ET_*E#E&&^&@^#72#5&Q*(E*^(#(@ F___CKEN Bu_ _sh_t Bush. Respectfully :dang:

Livinginthe past
07-18-2007, 07:31 AM
Nope I am a dreaded Pats fan. :jammin: I was being PC, If i wrote my honest name it would be more like
Prez @@#^#*@*@#((#@&(@((@(*()(*()*)(*)((W^^@ET_*E#E&&^&@^#72#5&Q*(E*^(#(@ F___CKEN Bu_ _sh_t Bush. Respectfully :dang:

LOL - welcome to the forum Brother.

Chronicgaming
07-18-2007, 08:26 AM
Nope I am a dreaded Pats fan.

Oh no... Not again... :jawdrop: (j/k LITP and Blah! Blah! Blah!)

Regarding Vick... What a waste. Both Vick brothers have done nothing but screw themselves out of using the talents that they have for the game. I don't see a trial until after the season, but I hope the right punishment is given and that he doesn't get off light.

C-BusSteeler
07-18-2007, 09:26 AM
heres what i dont get about this: a couple weeks ago attorneys said there was no way vick was going to be indicted....but he was-did they find more evidence since then or something? i mean how are they goin to build a case

memphissteelergirl
07-18-2007, 09:27 AM
Regarding Vick... What a waste. Both Vick brothers have done nothing but screw themselves out of using the talents that they have for the game. I don't see a trial until after the season, but I hope the right punishment is given and that he doesn't get off light.


:iagree:

In the meantime, I hope Goddell does the right thing and suspend him for the season...I mean come on! A QB playing with a federal indictment on him. How would that look?

xXTheSteelKingsXx
07-18-2007, 09:31 AM
.......a reference to Marvin Lewis.

Would I let you down? :sofunny:

My bad I thought that you were referencing Gary Sheffield.:dang:

OneForTheToe
07-18-2007, 09:53 AM
No way Vick walks. Prez Busch passed a bill in early may regarding animal fighting. This is the perfect situation to set an example. Vick may plea-bargain at best. Lets see how much he talks and if there are any other repercussions in the leaque. Gamblings could be a big issue as well regarding players.

Well, no doubt Vick is still in serious legal trouble, but you can?t prosecute him under a law passed in May, for conduct that occurred before the law as passed.



heres what i dont get about this: a couple weeks ago attorneys said there was no way vick was going to be indicted....but he was-did they find more evidence since then or something? i mean how are they goin to build a case



If the Feds indict you, they are very confident they already have a case.

Livinginthe past
07-18-2007, 09:55 AM
heres what i dont get about this: a couple weeks ago attorneys said there was no way vick was going to be indicted....but he was-did they find more evidence since then or something? i mean how are they goin to build a case

The difference is that the case was originally 'investigated' (and I use that term loosely) by Gerald Poindexter who is a Commonwealth Attorney - and only a part time one at that.

Every other day there was a press release or interview from this guy saying that there was evidence of a criminal act, then they following day he would contradict himself and moan about how difficult it was to get good evidence.

He also played a major part in delaying the application for a search warrant - all the while blaming it on the local Sheriff but actually doing nothing to help the situation himself.

Eventually Poindexter was removed from the case and the FBI took over - since then it has been a professional job and press releases have become much less frequent.

If you ask me, Poindexter never wanted the job - he was underqualified and didn't want the reputation that would go with bringing down one of Atlanta's most recognised athletes - when he was finally removed we heard alot of sour grapes and a worrying claim that he felt the case was being made on a racial discrimination basis.

That last part could explain why he wanted no part of the investigation - to the point of sidetracking it altogether.

OneForTheToe
07-18-2007, 11:39 AM
Since Peter King bashing is always in vogue, here is his take:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/07/18/vick.league/

The NFL is not going to preemptively strike against a player with a relatively clean slate, as Vick has.

Relatively clean slate? Is that like sorta pregnant or kinda having a STD? :bouncy:

Of course, I know what he intended. It just sound strange to me.

alittlejazzbird
07-18-2007, 11:50 AM
heres what i dont get about this: a couple weeks ago attorneys said there was no way vick was going to be indicted....but he was-did they find more evidence since then or something? i mean how are they goin to build a case

I've thought from the start that someone intentionally "leaked" that there was insufficient evidence on Vick to sort of throw everyone (maybe even Vick himself) off the scent a bit. It gave the Feds more time to build their case without the 24/7 media scrutiny they were currently facing. If you noticed, the coverage dropped way off after that announcement.

The guy deserves a trial and to have all the facts come out. But let's be honest....where there is this much smoke (read the affidavit - it's meticulously detailed), there is almost surely fire. And if he is indeed guilty as charged, he deserves the maximum penalty allowed under federal law.

There are no words to describe how I feel about a person who not only participates in this heinous activity, but someone who could viciously, heartlessly and cruelly kill these already brutalized dogs in ways that most reasonable humans couldn't even bear to think about.

Any person who hangs, electrocutes, or slams defenseless dogs to the ground to kill them is a waste of a human life. End of story.

fansince'76
07-18-2007, 11:51 AM
Since Peter King bashing is always in vogue, here is his take:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/07/18/vick.league/

The NFL is not going to preemptively strike against a player with a relatively clean slate, as Vick has.

Relatively clean slate? Is that like sorta pregnant or kinda having a STD? :bouncy:

Of course, I know what he intended. It just sound strange to me.

Ehh, it's all relative - if "relatively clean slate" means he hasn't been charged and convicted with any crimes, then yes, it's accurate (although a regular Joe would have went down HARD trying to smuggle a water bottle with a hidden compartment containing pot resin through airport security). If it means he isn't a lousy excuse for a human being, then it's completely inaccurate.

MACH1
07-18-2007, 12:15 PM
Not only federal charges there are probably local charges he's going to have to deal with too. Federal supersedes local but maybe there are some different charges between the both.

OneForTheToe
07-18-2007, 12:19 PM
I've thought from the start that someone intentionally "leaked" that there was insufficient evidence on Vick to sort of throw everyone (maybe even Vick himself) off the scent a bit. It gave the Feds more time to build their case without the 24/7 media scrutiny they were currently facing. If you noticed, the coverage dropped way off after that announcement.

.

You might indeed be correct, alittlejazzbird.

I also think just reading the indictment that the breeder in NC might have been a lynchpin that really helped seal the deal. If I read the indictment correctly, he is one of the cooperating witnesses, and can help establish both gambling and dog fighting. (across state lines). Also, presumably he could be outside of Vick's circle of influence. It might be that the Feds just turned this witness, or a different one, only in recent weeks or days. Thus, giving the Government what they needed to indict.

That's the bitch for Vick about having the Feds after him. While the locals in Virginia are still on the phone explaining what the fact are to the locals in NC, and asking them to look into it, the Feds are already turning the NC witness by the threats of jail time.

83-Steelers-43
07-18-2007, 01:11 PM
If convicted, I see the scumbag getting probation and a fine.

Atlanta Dan
07-18-2007, 01:16 PM
I believe the kid was released not to long ago. I think the state dropped the sentence.

Anyways maybe he can go visit vick in the slammer.

Nope - he is still in there after serving several years; the trial court wanted to release him on bail while the challenge to the constitutionality of his sentence (the state statute has been amended since his conviction and I think the max sntence is now 1 year) proceeds.

State Attorney General Thurbert Baker (who is black) objected to that release, so now the issue of whether he can be released pending resolution of his habeas petition is before the State Supreme Court.

The case is a complete train wreck; the DA needed to do something when the video was released (unlike federal prosecutors DAs run for re-election) but the kid would not plead to a lesser charge since that would have screwed up his athletic scholarship offers. The evidence supported the conviction but the jurors said they never would have convicted on the oral sex charge (they acquitted on the sexual assault charge) if they knew the kid was facing 10 years (jurors do not get to know of the penalty unless it is a capital case and they need to convict on the crime and impose the death penalty).

This is another example of the collateral damage caused by legislatures getting "tough on crime" and enacting ridiculous manadtory minimum sentences to score political points.

tony hipchest
07-18-2007, 01:24 PM
the link atlanta dan provided to the atlanta journal constitution seems to be an accurate guage that the locals definitely arent siding with vick. they seem appaled as anybody. this post was a gem :wink: :

By Mark

July 18, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

Now that Michael Vick has been collared by the Feds, he is in the dog-fight of his life. That is Bad Newz for the Atlanta Falcons. In the dog-eat-dog world of public relations, Vick and the NFL will find themselves in the dog-house, and certainly this time, the media will not be muzzled. We all fear the NFL has gone to the dogs, and Commissioner Goodell will not be able to shed his responsibilities. To prove his bark is not worse than his bite, this time he must throw the Fans a bone. We will not accept another dog and pony show for such transgressions, and such players must be kept on a short leash.


:chuckle: i have a feeling if this were a bengals player their fanbase's outrage would be at a minimum.

i knew the feds were good but i wasnt aware it was 95% conviction rate good. :jawdrop: today on sirius the nfl network had one of the attorneys who hosts a show for court tv confirm this success rate and confirm that alot of federal indictments are a case of "big game hunting" where a strong case is built against several small fish who in turn roll over, to land the bigger one and lessen their charges.

reading through the indictment it seems pretty grimm for vick. one of the interesting witnesses says how he was talked down to or basically reprimanded (perhaps strongarmed) for calling out vicks name in front of the crowd at one of these events. that mustve been one of the unspoken yet understood rules of attending a Bad Newz Kennels fight. dont call attention to the celeb (and high rolling backer in attendance).

even though this is ultimately about dogs dying and being abused i dont think alot are seeing the organized crime implications. some are acting like its a witch hunt because feds typically dont get involved in dog fighting rings. when you have somebody worth $130,000,000 backing them you can bet ears are gonna perk up no mater what color the person is.

the "its a cultural thing" excuse is the biggest load of crap ive heard. thats like saying smoking crack is a "cultural" thing. its wrong and its illegal.

alittlejazzbird
07-18-2007, 01:27 PM
If convicted, I see the scumbag getting probation and a fine.


Not when the Feds are involved, 83. When the big boys come in and a case becomes a federal matter, a slap on the wrist for a conviction is extremely unlikely. And that's good news for just about everyone except Mr. Vick and his associates.

Oh, and all the other sycophantic hangers-on who have relied on Mr. Vick's generosity since 2001. Watch how quickly they're likely to turn on him when they find out that the gravy train has left the station for good.

SteelCityMan786
07-18-2007, 01:38 PM
Not when the Feds are involved, 83. When the big boys come in and a case becomes a federal matter, a slap on the wrist for a conviction is extremely unlikely. And that's good news for just about everyone except Mr. Vick and his associates.

Oh, and all the other sycophantic hangers-on who have relied on Mr. Vick's generosity since 2001. Watch how quickly they're likely to turn on him when they find out that the gravy train has left the station for good.

that's for sure. It may be 5 years at least in the can.

83-Steelers-43
07-18-2007, 01:41 PM
Not when the Feds are involved, 83. When the big boys come in and a case becomes a federal matter, a slap on the wrist for a conviction is extremely unlikely. And that's good news for just about everyone except Mr. Vick and his associates.

Oh, and all the other sycophantic hangers-on who have relied on Mr. Vick's generosity since 2001. Watch how quickly they're likely to turn on him when they find out that the gravy train has left the station for good.

I hope you are right. Considering who the defendant is, I'm not holding my breath.

Atlanta Dan
07-18-2007, 01:44 PM
heres what i dont get about this: a couple weeks ago attorneys said there was no way vick was going to be indicted....but he was-did they find more evidence since then or something? i mean how are they goin to build a case

Good prosecutors do not try their cases pre-indictment by leaks to the news media (ask Duke lacrosse prosecutor Mike Nifong how that works out); John Clayton and Chris Mortensen have about as much expertise as Paris Hilton when it comes to predicting the outcomes of high profile federal criminal investigations.

The prosecutors presumably developed physical evidence through search warrants, financial evidence by grand jury subpoenas of bank records; and presumably locked the cooperating witnesses into their stories by putting them before the grand jury after getting proffers of testimony as part of plea agreements to lesser charges. Under Rule 6(e) of the Federal Rules of Crimnal Procedure, prosecutors leaking grand jury matters is a hanging offense; just because you did not read about it on espn.com does not mean there is not a lot of apparent incriminating evidence here; just read the indictment.

ChronoCross
07-18-2007, 03:01 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/37/83409660_bb304f17a7.jpg?v=0

ChronoCross
07-18-2007, 03:34 PM
http://www.withleather.com//ul/3385-vick%20jail.jpg

fansince'76
07-18-2007, 03:39 PM
:chuckle: i have a feeling if this were a bengals player their fanbase's outrage would be at a minimum.

No, there would be plenty of outrage on their part - towards the law enforcement community.

onthebus36
07-18-2007, 04:10 PM
No, there would be plenty of outrage on their part - towards the law enforcement community.

Can you blame them with all the racial profiling going on! :wink02:

alittlejazzbird
07-18-2007, 04:11 PM
From ESPN:
***********************************************
Legal Odds Against Vick Just Got Much Longer

A grand jury indicted Atlanta Falcons' quarterback Michael Vick on Tuesday, which at least partially answers one question that has lingered since the news first broke about an alleged dogfighting operation on property owned by Vick in Virginia: Was Vick involved? Obviously, we know now that investigators believe he was.

There are plenty of football-related issues still to be resolved about Vick's future with the Falcons and the NFL, but those might be the least of his concerns right now. Questions about his legal future abound. Here are some answers.:

What do these federal charges mean for Vick?

Vick is in real trouble. He is up against the might and majesty of the U.S. government with all of its agents, all of its investigative techniques and all of its skilled prosecutors. If he has any doubts about the power and skill of the forces arrayed against him, he can call Scooter Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, or he can call Lord Conrad Black, the disgraced media mogul facing time in a federal penitentiary. If he still isn't convinced, he can call Jeff Skilling, the zillionaire former Enron CEO who is residing in a federal pen. All three of them hired brilliant (and expensive) lawyers. All three thought they could explain their way out from under federal charges. And all three were convicted. Vick can, and probably will, hire some of America's best defense lawyers, but they will face a serious battle.

Would Vick be sent to jail if he is convicted?

Yes. It's hard to imagine any other outcome. The charges are serious, and the evidence against Vick presented at trial will be nasty. The government's case includes evidence that Vick and his cohorts "tested" pit bulls for ferocity. If the dogs failed the test, the indictment charges, they were executed by hanging or drowning. In one case, with Vick present, the indictment says a dog was slammed to the ground until it was dead. In another incident, a dog was soaked with a hose, then electrocuted. Those aren't the sort of transgressions that lead to probation and community service. It's the kind of behavior that results in punishment, and the punishment will be jail time.

What is the next step for Vick?

Vick will watch to see which of his three co-defendants will be the first to make a deal with federal prosecutors. Each of them will think seriously about turning on Vick and offering testimony against him in return for less time in jail. Vick obviously is the prime target of the government effort. Prosecutors and agents will be willing to talk with his co-defendants about a deal if they are willing to help prove the case against Vick. The government indictment discloses four witnesses who already have agreed to testify against him. If all three of his co-defendants join these four witnesses against Vick, he and his lawyers might suggest that he, too, should talk to the government about a deal that would minimize his time in jail.

Vick is charged with "conspiracy" and violations of the "Travel Act." What does that mean?

The conspiracy charge will make things extra difficult for Vick and his lawyers. Under federal laws, the conspiracy charge allows federal prosecutors to link Vick to things that occurred even if he was not present. If the prosecutors can connect the four defendants, crimes committed by one of them can be used to add to the evidence against the others. It's a tricky legal procedure that prosecutors love and defense lawyers detest. The Travel Act is a device invented by Robert F. Kennedy when he was U.S. Attorney General in the early '60s. It was designed for use against organized crime and made it easier to prove cases against hoodlums. In the sports world, it was used most recently in the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics bribery scandal. Federal prosecutors charged the Utah organizers under the Travel Act and proved millions of dollars in bribes. Vick, however, can take some hope from the fact that U.S. District Judge David Sam found the organizers not guilty of violating the Travel Act even though there was powerful evidence of bribery.

What was Vick's role in the dogfighting conspiracy described in the indictment?

According to the indictment, Vick was in the middle of everything from beginning to end. He purchased a vacant piece of property for $34,000, the indictment says. He then had sheds built for training dogs and staging fights and a fence erected to shield the operation from view. And finally, the indictment says, he had a two-story frame house with a basketball court put up as a residence for the people taking care of the dogs. If you believe the indictment, the Vick property had everything anyone could want in a dogfighting operation.

When would Vick's trial begin?

The federal courthouse in Richmond, Va., is the home of the nationally recognized "rocket docket." Cases move quickly in Richmond, more quickly than in any other courthouse in the federal system. Vick's lawyers will be looking for delays and for time to prepare a defense, but the trial likely would begin in a matter of four to six months.

Are the federal authorities in Richmond tough on crime?

Ask Ralph Sampson, the former NBA star. He fell behind in child support payments to seven children he had with four women, the kind of thing that ordinarily is worked out in a settlement. But instead of a settlement, Sampson found himself charged with felonies in federal court. Then, very quickly, he found himself in jail for two months on a child support charge. Yes, they're tough on crime in Richmond, and they might be particularly tough on crimes involving the torture and killing of dogs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940312&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines_United

revefsreleets
07-18-2007, 04:35 PM
There are going to be a lot of problems for Vick both inside and outside the legal system. When people find out the rest of the details about dog fighting, they will be appalled and there will be a backlash. His days of endorsing products (although he was never really embraced by Madison Avenue) are over. I can't wait to see how people react to the tactics these guys use like picking up dogs that are advertised as "Free to good home" just to be ripped apart by these fighting dogs.

He's also going to be(rightly) condemned as a liar outside the legal system. There are tons of witnesses that have Vick not only being at the house he previously claimed he'd never been to, but also at the fights and actively participating in killing some dogs. They can't discredit all these witnesses. He's going to be found guilty of something, and his career is going to go the way of Jamal Lewis.

Oops. Posted this a minute too late.

Blah! Blah! Blah!
07-18-2007, 04:52 PM
The stage is set. This is going to get interesting. Not only will some Falcons fans be outraged and protesting along with animal rights orgs around the stadium but Arthur Bland also owns HOME DEPOT. I am sure the last thing he needs is protesters outside those stores nationwide etc. The last thing this guy is going to need is more bad pub.
Either way Vick is screwed. I have to think that at least a couple of other players are involved to some degree even if it is a bet here or there. Lets see how much Vick talks to save himself. Lets also see what the Feds are really after. Either way its a no win situation for Vick.

Crushzilla
07-18-2007, 05:08 PM
I don't see Blank taking a lot of hit on this one.

Vick's activities were carried out primarily in Virginia at at no times were affiliated with the Falcons org.

They presumably didn't know about it. Heck Vick didn't even go under his own name.

But, yes. This is lose/lose for Vick.

tony hipchest
07-18-2007, 05:15 PM
I don't see Blank taking a lot of hit on this one.

Vick's activities were carried out primarily in Virginia at at no times were affiliated with the Falcons org.

They presumably didn't know about it. Heck Vick didn't even go under his own name.

But, yes. This is lose/lose for Vick.

vick is v*cked. his 1st scheduled court date is the 26th which also happens to be the 1st day of falcons camp. the whole team will take a hit, as this will be a total distraction whether he is there or not. i heard someone on the radio (not sure if it was j. noorwood, a caller or host) suggest that this distraction may actually be good and help bring the team closer together. of course i heard this before yesterdays indictments were handed down.

maximum punishment is 6 yrs and $350,000 (which is chump change to ron)

where blank takes the hit is being an enabler, and trading away the insurance policy in schaub, who many contend was the better qb anyways in the last 2 years of practices.

Blah! Blah! Blah!
07-18-2007, 05:33 PM
Where Blank can take the hit starts now. How he handles this situation is important and can be costly. I am not sure about Blank's knowledge or there lack of. I think he may have had a gut feeling but anyway we will see how Blank, the commish, etc make decisions from here on out.

ChronoCross
07-18-2007, 05:35 PM
I don't see Blank taking a lot of hit on this one.

Vick's activities were carried out primarily in Virginia at at no times were affiliated with the Falcons org.

They presumably didn't know about it. Heck Vick didn't even go under his own name.

But, yes. This is lose/lose for Vick.

Actually no matter were this events take place, his face and name is that of the Falcons, so it does reflect on the Falcons Org. No matter what. And all this started his rookie season with his first check. So it ties back, how ever you want to look at it. Its a big smug on the face of the falcons and there in a place right now were they do not know what to do with it. Not to mention ties with Nike is next on the list to most likely drop his name from there product also.

Reason I know of the ties with nike might be dropped and there is heavy talk in Oregon about this is do to my Old but Faithful Step Mom who is one of the bosses at Nike There.

revefsreleets
07-18-2007, 05:38 PM
where blank takes the hit is being an enabler, and trading away the insurance policy in schaub, who many contend was the better qb anyways in the last 2 years of practices.

Depends on what you look for in a quarterback. If reading defenses, the ability to accurately throw the football, team leadership on the field, game management and the ability to stay out of trouble off the field is important to you then Blank really, really messed up bad.

tony hipchest
07-18-2007, 05:49 PM
Depends on what you look for in a quarterback. If reading defenses, the ability to accurately throw the football, team leadership on the field, game management and the ability to stay out of trouble off the field is important to you then Blank really, really messed up bad.lol. for sure.

and if you look at ticket sales, flash, hope of the next michael jordan (one man show), and putting asses in the seats, then vick was the man.

ironic the heat the chargers took for trading vick jordon for small school tomlinson. vick is on federal indictments and tomlinson is the Walter Payton Man of the Year.

ChronoCross
07-18-2007, 05:50 PM
Falcons | Vick named numerous times in indictment
Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:34:11 -0700

Hank Kurz Jr., of the Associated Press, reports, unlike other documents, the name of Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick can be seen numerous times in the indictment for Vick and three other men. In the indictment, Vick allegedly was consulted before a wounded dog who lost a dog fight was doused with water and electrocuted. Also, Vick supposedly gave the owners of the winning dogs $23,000 in a bag in March 2003, when the dogs from "Bad Newz Kennels" lost. The indictment said Vick was known as "Ookie" in the dog fighting world. Other things mentioned in the indictment were that when eight dogs where considered not good fighters, the dogs were killed "by hanging, drowning and/or slamming at least one dog's body to the ground." Another thing stated in the indictment was that the purses for the dog fights ranged from hundreds to thousands of dollars a match.

Crushzilla
07-18-2007, 05:52 PM
where blank takes the hit is being an enabler, and trading away the insurance policy in schaub, who many contend was the better qb anyways in the last 2 years of practices.

Aye.

But I meant take a hit as in from activists, media, etc.

Of course the francise will take a hit (as well as Blank's back pocket), but PETA activists outside Home Depot screaming for his blood seems unlikely (not to mention severely misdirected).

revefsreleets
07-18-2007, 06:03 PM
lol. for sure.

and if you look at ticket sales, flash, hope of the next michael jordan (one man show), and putting asses in the seats, then vick was the man.

ironic the heat the chargers took for trading vick jordon for small school tomlinson. vick is on federal indictments and tomlinson is the Walter Payton Man of the Year.

Flash is right. As in "In the pan".

Mike Vick will be another footnote in history.

ChronoCross
07-18-2007, 06:06 PM
Here is a big read on Vick in Court while Falcons Start Camp. If you are interested.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/18/0718vicklegal.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

revefsreleets
07-18-2007, 07:08 PM
Nike deal: GONE!

NV STEELERS 723
07-18-2007, 07:30 PM
A smile came over my face when i heard this news....and you know if he goes to prison, I bet they make him a RB or WR on the prison football team ; which is what he should be anyway!

NV STEELERS 723
07-18-2007, 07:32 PM
lol. for sure.

and if you look at ticket sales, flash, hope of the next michael jordan (one man show), and putting asses in the seats, then vick was the man.

ironic the heat the chargers took for trading vick jordon for small school tomlinson. vick is on federal indictments and tomlinson is the Walter Payton Man of the Year.

Yea ,,,,Tony my buddy is a Bolt fan and he shudders at the thought of Vick wearing the SD uniform!

Atlanta Dan
07-18-2007, 07:54 PM
Here is a big read on Vick in Court while Falcons Start Camp. If you are interested.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/18/0718vicklegal.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Plus, the AJC has a poll

Atlanta-based InsiderAdvantage polled 859 people by telephone overnight Tuesday and found that 45.9 percent think the Falcons should release Vick. Another 45.7 percent said the team should keep him until a verdict is rendered. And 8.4 percent had no opinion.

The poll had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Whites were far more likely than blacks to think that Vick, who is African-American, should be dumped immediately. Among whites, 54.4 percent polled thought he should be released, 36.7 percent that he should stay until there was a verdict, and 8.9 percent had no opinion.

Among black respondents, only 26.6 percent thought he should be released, 65.6 percent said wait until the verdict, and 7.8 percent had no opinion.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/18/0719vickpoll.html

Absolutely stunning news that this is breaking down on racial lines in Atlanta:dang:

SteelCityMan786
07-18-2007, 08:04 PM
Nike deal: GONE!

...if found guilty.

revefsreleets
07-18-2007, 08:10 PM
...if found guilty.

Ha! All deals are gone. Nike is being diplomatic.

Dan makes a good point. But I wonder if the numbers might trend higher for Vick if he "just" killed a white woman like OJ did. Everybody loves dogs.

Did I just say that? Am I in trouble?

xXTheSteelKingsXx
07-18-2007, 08:11 PM
...if found guilty.

Yeah exactly. Let's not jump the gun yet. He's only been indicted.

Atlanta Dan
07-18-2007, 08:11 PM
i saw a special on tv about that a while back. i was pretty appaled and felt sorry for the kid. ive done the exact same "crime", although i dont believe 17 and 15 is punishable in this state. regarless i doubt many teenagers are checking local statutes in the heat of the moment, before receiving a consensual hummer .

no offense, but besides the humidity, the racial tensions and this type of BS that still exists is what will keep me from ever doing more than a brief visit to the dirty south, if i have any say about it.

Of course no offense taken - regular posters with whom I have non-Steelers discussions here have banked a ton of credibility and goodwill.

I only have lived for long periods in Pittsburgh, where blacks were pretty much marginalized when I lived there in the 60s and 70s, and Atlanta, where black citizens have had political clout since I moved here and have growing economic clout. For that reason, Atlanta has a lot of in your face activity from both camps. But living in a vibrant metro area that has pretty much boomed since I lived here (same metro size as Pittsburgh when I arrived, now 5 million) makes the trade-off worth it.

Unfortunately, racial tensions are not limited to the South; Dr. King ran aground when he tried to take on Chicago in the mid-60s and relations in the enlightened bastion of Boston are infamous.

Atlanta Dan
07-18-2007, 08:17 PM
...if found guilty.

Oh, I think that deal is gone; even if acquitted Vick's image is about as torn-up as the dogs described in the indictment.

fansince'76
07-18-2007, 08:27 PM
Ha! All deals are gone. Nike is being diplomatic.

Absolutely. Even if he comes out of this scot-free, he's damaged goods. In the image-is-everything world of advertising, Vick's days as corporate shill are over. Who will be the starting QB for the Briscoe Hawks in those lame Nike ads now that Vick is outta there?

SteelCityMan786
07-18-2007, 08:33 PM
Absolutely. Even if he comes out of this scot-free, he's damaged goods. In the image-is-everything world of advertising, Vick's days as corporate shill are over. Who will be the starting QB for the Briscoe Hawks in those lame Nike ads now that Vick is outta there?

Good question if they actually do knock him off.

ChronoCross
07-18-2007, 08:37 PM
Well over on another forum there throwing around the race card saying he is going to get off like OJ. What they seem to forget, is OJ was in a local criminal court with a prosecution and local police who were making mistakes and let OJ get away with it. PonDexter tried to sweep this under the table to try and save his next election but the Feds get involved and its pretty well over for Vick when they go after you, because they do dig up all the evidence and are solid at the prosecution level and race nor how famous you are play a key in your conviction. If you did the crime the Feds will get you. I feel the right action and correct out come will happen and all the vic fan supporters will be in a up roar, but it is sad that he would do such a thing in the first place. Even Pac Man in the local courts has a better chance then Vick to get off and get back to Football in a year. But as I see it we will not see no more of Pac Man nor Vick when it comes down to the truth of the matter and what they have done and who they have around them.

Its a gift they have for this game and they and only they can mess it up for themselves and cost themselves millions. Like one said after you football career is over then go do what you want. But until then be good, do the right thing, be a good public figure for the kids to try and show them there is a place they could be at in the future if they work hard, and there dreams can come true. But players like we have had lately have taken there gift for granted and ruining themselves and the respect of there fans for them and also setting bad examples for the younger generations.

I hope after this is all said and done that people that are breaking the laws get just cause and what is coming to them. But in local courts the stars get off most of the time are pay there victims off to get out of trouble. With this federal case they will see that there not above the law and see how bad it can be when you get the feds on your back.

nicesteel4life
07-18-2007, 08:38 PM
...if found guilty.

WRONG!!!!! There Gone as soon as they can get the Papers filled. Kobie lost his before his trial ever happened, Yes he did get a few back after not convicted but not all. That gravy train has crashed!

Atlanta Dan
07-18-2007, 08:39 PM
Jeff Schulz of the AJC (which better own coverage of this story) has a good column up.

He knew. Of course he knew. And that’s enough.

The Falcons are trying to figure out where to go with Michael Vick. Try this: Run in the other direction....

If Blank doesn’t know what to do, he should ask himself this question: If this was a guy selling hammers at Home Depot and not your star quarterback, what would be your first move? I’m guessing it wouldn’t be a directive, “Go sell more hammers.”

This isn’t Mayberry or some backwoods county filing charges. This is: “UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. MICHAEL VICK, a/k/a ‘Ookie,’ ” and three lesser-known bottom-feeders.

The federal government doesn’t hand these things out like parking tickets. Read the indictment. It’s detailed. It names manners of executions, amounts of wagers, even names of dogs.

Do nothing and this should be the Falcons new slogan: “Do the right thing — when it’s convenient.”


http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2007/07/18/did_vick_know_w.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Vick's situation is beginning to remind me of the Don Imus death spiral (not from a law breaking standpoint but from a quick demise on the PR front). He may be on leave with pay by the end of the month.

tony hipchest
07-18-2007, 08:56 PM
I only have lived for long periods in Pittsburgh, where blacks were pretty much marginalized when I lived there in the 60s and 70s, and Atlanta, where black citizens have had political clout since I moved here and have growing economic clout. For that reason, Atlanta has a lot of in your face activity from both camps. But living in a vibrant metro area that has pretty much boomed since I lived here (same metro size as Pittsburgh when I arrived, now 5 million) makes the trade-off worth it.

Unfortunately, racial tensions are not limited to the South. and im a military brat who grew up on bases in CA, AZ, and NM, so not only am i not used to the humidity, such heated racial tensions are foreign to me. (i went to san antonio last week and thought the humidity was gonna kill me).

in college i had some of the freshman and sophmore football players in my dorm and i would score brew for them (i had a fake id and occasionally party with them). they were all black. now im a white guy who looked like a typical metalhead, and one of their team mates they brought over was from atlanta. of course looks can be decieving and i listened to all the same hip hop they did and was into sports and we were partying and having a good time, yet i could tell i was being scoped, and scrutinized in my own dorm room. i could definitely feel the tension from this one particular fellah. after about 20 minutes he decided to approach and speak to me and i seriously thought we were gonna come to blows.

with a mad dog face he simply said "where i come from we dont even f--k with people like you, but youse cool" as he reached out to shake my hand. and that was it.

thats as close as ive really come to experiencing the tension that still exists 1st hand. i have to say, what is normal and common place for most in this country i found to be very foreign and strange. but it is a memory i will never forget.

unfortunately i have some relatives who are lifetime pittsburghers who arent quite as open minded as i am. from listening to some of them, i woulda thought they were raised in the south :dang:

i did notice in the poll you posted that the verdict about vick was split 45%-45% whether he should be canned amongst whites. thats not nearly as skewed on the viewpoints of oj's guilt/innocence. do you see that as a sign of progress or a bunch of die hard sportfans who know vick is there best chance of having a successful season this year?

Atlanta Dan
07-18-2007, 09:20 PM
i did notice in the poll you posted that the verdict about vick was split 45%-45% whether he should be canned amongst whites. thats not nearly as skewed on the viewpoints of oj's guilt/innocence. do you see that as a sign of progress or a bunch of die hard sportfans who know vick is there best chance of having a successful season this year?

The 50/50 split was for the entire sample. Among whites, 54.4 percent polled thought he should be released, 36.7 percent that he should stay until there was a verdict, and 8.9 percent had no opinion. Among black respondents, only 26.6 percent thought he should be released, 65.6 percent said wait until the verdict, and 7.8 percent had no opinion. That racial disparity is statistically significant.

I assume the 36% of whites who say let him play are split between those who sincerely believe nothing should be done until conviction (lots of "remember the Duke lacrosse case" comments) and those who would cheer for a serial killer at QB if it increased the chances to make the playoffs.

With regard to the 66% of black respondnets who say let him play, on Atlanta sports talk on the drive home tonight I heard one caller who said dog fighting is no different than white players hunting & fishing (although dog fighting has a bi-racial "fan base" in the South), so there is clearly a % that regards this as simply more harassment by The Man.

I look for brawls in the stands at Falcon games between those who cheer and heckle Vick if he is not suspended (with pay or otherwise). It is definitely ugly.

ChronoCross
07-18-2007, 09:31 PM
The 50/50 split was for the entire sample. Among whites, 54.4 percent polled thought he should be released, 36.7 percent that he should stay until there was a verdict, and 8.9 percent had no opinion. Among black respondents, only 26.6 percent thought he should be released, 65.6 percent said wait until the verdict, and 7.8 percent had no opinion. That racial disparity is statistically significant.

I assume the 36% of whites who say let him play are split between those who sincerely believe nothing should be done until conviction (lots of "remember the Duke lacrosse case" comments) and those who would cheer for a serial killer at QB if it increased the chances to make the playoffs.

With regard to the 66% of black respondnets who say let him play, on Atlanta sports talk on the drive home tonight I heard one caller who said dog fighting is no different than white players hunting & fishing (although dog fighting has a bi-racial "fan base" in the South), so there is clearly a % that regards this as simply more harassment by The Man.

I look for brawls in the stands at Falcon games between those who cheer and heckle Vick if he is not suspended (with pay or otherwise). It is definitely ugly.

I have heard the compare to hunting and fishing deal. But if we did not hunt, states would over populate with Deers to the point in years to come were you could not drive down the road without hitting one. We have had several times in Indiana in Brown county a extra hunting weekend to take more deers out because there were so many. But deer are part of are food chain to. Now if we were in a oriental country were dog is on some of there menu's then it could be turned around. But in America dog fighting is illegal and we must a bid by the laws. Go by air ports with corn fields around them now a days, since we cannot hunt near air ports no more, they are heavy in deer. I go by hulman air port and there is dang near 50+ deer out in the fields anymore. Heck we almost hit a group that was running across the street bouncing off the fence and runing back, was funny.

Atlanta Dan
07-18-2007, 09:43 PM
I have heard the compare to hunting and fishing deal. But if we did not hunt, states would over populate with Deers to the point in years to come were you could not drive down the road without hitting one. We have had several times in Indiana in Brown county a extra hunting weekend to take more deers out because there were so many. But deer are part of are food chain to. Now if we were in a oriental country were dog is on some of there menu's then it could be turned around. But in America dog fighting is illegal and we must a bid by the laws. Go by air ports with corn fields around them now a days, since we cannot hunt near air ports no more, they are heavy in deer. I go by hulman air port and there is dang near 50+ deer out in the fields anymore. Heck we almost hit a group that was running across the street bouncing off the fence and runing back, was funny.

I agree completely the hunting & fishing analogy is bogus (I do not hunt but several of my uncles & cousins are avid hunters and regard the start of buck season as a high holy day).

Vick's mess is already beginning to seem like a political campaign where both sides have their talk radio talking points. As a Duke alum and someone who has a pretty fair idea of how the Justice Dept. operates I am dismayed by anyone who really believes they have enough information to credibly claim what happened to Evans, Seligman and Finnerty in the lacrosse prosecution is comparable to Vick's indictment.

tony hipchest
07-18-2007, 10:12 PM
oops. i misread the poll results.

today on sirius i heard a vegetarian caller actually compare dogfighting to the cruelty to the domesticated animals we eat. zzzzzzzz

new mexico just became the 49th state to outlaw ****fighting, and i can admitt that i wanted to attend one atleast once and i'd probably go twice. but i find a big difference between fighting chicken nuggets vs. fighting "mans best friend".

just like i can see the difference between hunting a deer for a set of antlers vs. an endangered african elephant for a set of tusks. sure killing any animal is all the same but when you start killin pets as opposed to food there is a huge emotional difference and heart strings are gonna be tugged.

i used to shoot lizards and birds with my BB gun as a kid. now that i own a parrot who is my bud and several exotic lizards, i could never go shoot them for "target practice".

all the dogs ive had would gladly lay down their lives to protect me. and i will admit that my childhood dog between ages 10-27 was an ass kicker (chow-husky X) and i unleashed him on several dogs. they were dogs that either tried to attack me or come into our yard. "wooley" never lost a fight. but in no way would i ever let him kill another dog or kill him for not being able to instinctively protect. that was like my furry brother.

Atlanta Dan
07-18-2007, 10:21 PM
T.H. - my bet is a lot of us have treasured memories of dogs such as yours.

Vick is toast with anyone who ever has had a dog or knows someone who has - that is a lot of people.

The NY Times has a good article on this:

Mike Paul, a sports marketing executive in New York who has counseled athletes on how to handle crises, believes Vick must quickly explain his side of the story publicly if he is to salvage his reputation.

?There are few affinities that touch everybody: people who have kids and, second to that, is people who have pets,? Paul said. ?The teams are going to learn how powerful this affinity is between people and their pets.?

But Neil Schwartz, the director of business development for SportsOneSource, a company in Princeton, N.J., that studies the sporting goods industry, said it may be difficult for Vick to recover from such serious charges.

?Americans are incredibly forgiving people,? Schwartz said. ?But there are certain things people won?t overlook. This is one of them. Steroid use, I think people will overlook it. Drug use, our athletes get a lot of chances. But the P.R. from this is going to be horrible. This could be one of the all-time worst errors in judgment in the history of errors in judgment.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/19/sports/football/19vick.html

ChronoCross
07-18-2007, 10:47 PM
oops. i misread the poll results.

today on sirius i heard a vegetarian caller actually compare dogfighting to the cruelty to the domesticated animals we eat. zzzzzzzz

new mexico just became the 49th state to outlaw ****fighting, and i can admitt that i wanted to attend one atleast once and i'd probably go twice. but i find a big difference between fighting chicken nuggets vs. fighting "mans best friend".

just like i can see the difference between hunting a deer for a set of antlers vs. an endangered african elephant for a set of tusks. sure killing any animal is all the same but when you start killin pets as opposed to food there is a huge emotional difference and heart strings are gonna be tugged.

i used to shoot lizards and birds with my BB gun as a kid. now that i own a parrot who is my bud and several exotic lizards, i could never go shoot them for "target practice".

all the dogs ive had would gladly lay down their lives to protect me. and i will admit that my childhood dog between ages 10-27 was an ass kicker (chow-husky X) and i unleashed him on several dogs. they were dogs that either tried to attack me or come into our yard. "wooley" never lost a fight. but in no way would i ever let him kill another dog or kill him for not being able to instinctively protect. that was like my furry brother.

I have raised dobbermens to different breeds myself. My grandma spoiled BO he was a 145 pound dobby. He was so big and he did not let no one hurt anyone. Lately, well a few months ago I had to put down a black lab chow mix, 115 pounds. He would protect the kids and no coyotes got on the farm are anything. 4 months ago I had to put him down, I forget the name of illness he had but almost attack the wife and then the baby, it was so hard to put him down, we had him for 8 years. We have one of his puppies which is almost 1year 2months old and looks just like him and I have been training him on the farm and he is doing so good, he is at 98 pounds already. It has always been a sad day when a dog of ours died are like the last one I had to put to sleep. BO grandma's big baby lasted 4 years after her death, he passed away on a friend of ours Farm in 1998. He would set behind the back door were she always came out, grandpa took BO to the farm and it helped him last longer.

I hope vick goes to prison.

tony hipchest
07-18-2007, 10:57 PM
This could be one of the all-time worst errors in judgment in the history of errors in judgment.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/19/sp...ll/19vick.htmlgood article and great point. of course i love my child a million times more than any of my pets ive ever had, but i think i would still react the same if i walked up and saw vick or one of his goons treating (murdering) any of them like he did his animals.

my point is to agree with the writer of the article that if you are messing with peoples pets, you might as well be messing with their children.

ive tried to remain objective on the matter and keep emotions out of it, but im really hoping to see vick go down. i know its a shame if he actually does more time than OJ, jacko, or ray-ray, but you gotta start somewhere right. (i thought scott peterson was gonna walk, so maybe there is hope)

anyways our lead story on the albuquerque nightly news is "Dog Fighting- what is being done to stop it in our state?"

vick is so screwed.

ChronoCross
07-18-2007, 11:18 PM
good article and great point. of course i love my child a million times more than any of my pets ive ever had, but i think i would still react the same if i walked up and saw vick or one of his goons treating (murdering) any of them like he did his animals.

my point is to agree with the writer of the article that if you are messing with peoples pets, you might as well be messing with their children.

ive tried to remain objective on the matter and keep emotions out of it, but im really hoping to see vick go down. i know its a shame if he actually does more time than OJ, jacko, or ray-ray, but you gotta start somewhere right. (i thought scott peterson was gonna walk, so maybe there is hope)

anyways our lead story on the albuquerque nightly news is "Dog Fighting- what is being done to stop it in our state?"

vick is so screwed.

Well you can blame the prosecution and local police on the OJ case, making mistakes, mishandling evidence and so forth. And even in the Duke case were the prosecution played more to the media then they to the case and was not pre paired and made mistakes and then later got OJ to pay over 33 mil when another court found him responsible for the deaths. What it shows is how bad in some areas were the prosecution is not educated enough and makes dumb mistakes and allows people to walk like OJ and the Duke boys. Best thing about this case is the Federal prosecution will be pre paired and we should see the right out come because normally when the Feds come after you they are very ready and have the evidence needed and dig and dig for more to make sure that there case is secure.

We see every day sports people and celebs get off and not even go to trial because they pay the victums off. But in this case since Feds are involve there is no pay off and Vick will see the courts regardless.

tony hipchest
07-18-2007, 11:32 PM
I have raised dobbermens to different breeds myself. My grandma spoiled BO he was a 145 pound dobby. He was so big and he did not let no one hurt anyone. Lately, well a few months ago I had to put down a black lab chow mix, 115 pounds. He would protect the kids and no coyotes got on the farm are anything. 4 months ago I had to put him down, I forget the name of illness he had but almost attack the wife and then the baby, it was so hard to put him down, we had him for 8 years. We have one of his puppies which is almost 1year 2months old and looks just like him and I have been training him on the farm and he is doing so good, he is at 98 pounds already. It has always been a sad day when a dog of ours died are like the last one I had to put to sleep. BO grandma's big baby lasted 4 years after her death, he passed away on a friend of ours Farm in 1998. He would set behind the back door were she always came out, grandpa took BO to the farm and it helped him last longer.

I hope vick goes to prison.talk about tugging at heart strings... that reminds me of "Old Yeller". ive always loved dobies but have to "settle: for our min pins. our male and his son escaped our fence about 2 months ago. now we live a 3 minute walk from the desert foothills and Walter (yes, our dog and daughter are both named after walter payton) is so small a jack rabbit would kick his ass and he would be a snack for a coyote.

i drove around for 5 hours looking for them, and was crushed when i couldnt find them. if they werent eaten or ran over i was sure somebody would keep them. thankfully they returned, which kinda suprised me cause it was the 1st time they escaped and i actually spoke to a walker who saw a lady trying to capture them. i have no idea how anyone finds the strength to go through a child who is kidnapped or missing.

our momma min pin is the big mean bitch though and i would put her up against a coyote any day. :wink02:

i gotta hunnerd bucks on it. :wink02:

Fu(k vick.

ChronoCross
07-19-2007, 12:06 AM
DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE IRS ANGLE

Several readers have pointed out to us an important aspect to the entire Mike Vick investigation and prosecution.

If Vick was gambling, and winning, thousands of dollars, Vick likely wasn't declaring his dog fighting booty as income. And, thus, Vick would not have paid all of his applicable taxes. Which, in turn, would make him potentially responsible for tax evasion.

All money earned through any endeavor, legal or illegal, constitutes income. Several years ago, some NBA officials got in trouble for downgrading first-class airline tickets, pocketing the difference, and not reporting it as income.

Earlier this decade, former Vikings coach Mike "Meathead" Tice 'fessed up to scalping Super Bowl tickets. Though he never was prosecuted for tax evasion, it's our understanding that Tice was smart enough to make good with the IRS immediately.

For Vick, the mere act of making good with the IRS would constitute an admission to involvement in dog fighting. But failing to come clean and pay the tax man could only make the hole that he has dug for himself even deeper.

tony hipchest
07-19-2007, 12:18 AM
mike vicks actions have organized crime or "gangsta" written all over it. its more than just killing dogs. sure he is rich, but what if he didnt have millions of dollars and still couldnt curb his gambling addiction?

he would be throwing games to be paying off debts. everyone assumes winning the ring means the most to these atheletes. vick could care less about a ring. he is all about the scrilla $$$


congratulations vick. nancy grace is spendin a whole hour to rip you a new *******. youve hit the bigtime now and are barely a step above those who kill their wives or murder their children (if you buy into graces shtick)

OneForTheToe
07-19-2007, 12:31 AM
Well you can blame the prosecution and local police on the OJ case, making mistakes, mishandling evidence and so forth. And even in the Duke case were the prosecution played more to the media then they to the case and was not pre paired and made mistakes and then later got OJ to pay over 33 mil when another court found him responsible for the deaths. What it shows is how bad in some areas were the prosecution is not educated enough and makes dumb mistakes and allows people to walk like OJ and the Duke boys. Best thing about this case is the Federal prosecution will be pre paired and we should see the right out come because normally when the Feds come after you they are very ready and have the evidence needed and dig and dig for more to make sure that there case is secure.

We see every day sports people and celebs get off and not even go to trial because they pay the victums off. But in this case since Feds are involve there is no pay off and Vick will see the courts regardless.


A little defense of local prosecutions

I somewhat agree about the OJ case being messed up (although the 33 million was awarded in a civil case, so that's not really the same thing as the crimminal phase), but the Duke boys were railroaded, IMO. The DNA evidence, and lack thereof, exonorated the boys and the prosecuter withheld that information, but that is off topic so I will stop. I somehow think the evidence in the Vick case will be clearer.

Remember that the Feds mostly have the advantage of selecting the cases they want to prosecute. The local prosecuter might have a turkey of a case (IOW, they believe the person guilty, but don't have great evidence), and if he/she declines to prosecute will they face the wrath of the voters. They simply can't say, oh will throw that into the lap of the feds

Finally remember not every local court messes up celebrity high profile prosecutions. Mike Tyson didn't get much love in his trial. Either did the bafoons who wacked Nancy Kerrigan in the knee, and spent time in jail.

Atlanta Dan
07-19-2007, 07:29 AM
[QUOTE=ChronoCross;266342] What it shows is how bad in some areas were the prosecution is not educated enough and makes dumb mistakes and allows people to walk like OJ and the Duke boys. QUOTE]

The "Duke boys" did not "walk." The Duke boys were no more guilty of assaulting that stripper than you or me.

Unlike Marcia Clark & Chris Darden making a hash of the OJ case, Durham DA Nifong did not screw up that prosecution - he made it up and has been disbarred as a result. It was not incompetence - it arguably was a criminal miscarriage of justice.

fansince'76
07-19-2007, 09:22 AM
sure he is rich, but what if he didnt have millions of dollars and still couldnt curb his gambling addiction?

It wouldn't be receiving any attention whatsoever.

ChronoCross
07-19-2007, 09:27 AM
POINDEXTER GETTING IN ON THE ACT?

As we suggested on Wednesday, the federal conspiracy charges against Mike Vick could be the tip of the legal iceberg into which his NFL career (and liberty) have rammed.

The Virginian-Pilot reports that Surry County, Virginia prosecutor Gerald Poindexter has now said that Vick will "more than likely" be prosecuted by local officials.

"[W]e're very moved by the idea of animals being executed,” Poindexter said, which is a refernce to allegations in the federal indictment that Vick was involved in the killing of canines as recently as April 2007.

Meanwhile, there are some unfortunate racial tensions emerging in Surry County. John Seward, the chairman of the Surry County Board of Supervisors, told the Virginia-Pilot that he and "the few people I have talked with" believe Vick will never face charges in Surry County. Seward claims that Poindexter, who is African-American, has been reluctant in the past to prosecute black suspects.

"I don't know where Mr. Seward is coming from, and I am very disappointed in his remarks," Poindexter said.

Frankly, we believe that Poindexter had been dragging his feet because he knew that prosecuting Vick would require this 60-something part-time prosecutor to devote most if not all of his professional time and attention over a one-year period (or longer) to one case and one case only. And with an O.J.-style dream team descending on town and flooding Poindexter with motions and letters and faxes and e-mails, it would have been a very unpleasant experience for a lawyer who otherwise is at or approaching retirement age.

Now that Vick's resources will be consumed by the federal prosecution, Poindexter might think that a local prosecution will be easier to engineer and execute.

As a result, Vick could be indicted as soon as next week by a Surry County grand jury on charges of dog fighting and animal cruelty. To do so, however, Poindexter will need access to much of the federal evidence, since Poindexter refused to execute on a search warrant that would have unearthed the dead dogs, and thereafter seemingly pulled the plug on his investigation after the feds were on the case.

But if/when Poindexter asks the feds to cooperate, the answer he might get is "hell no." Poindexter has a bad habit of running his mouth to the press, as evidenced by the fact that he felt compelled to proclaim on Wednesday that Vick is "more than likely" to face charges in Surry County. If Poindexter gets access to the evidence, he can significantly undermine the federal prosecution by leaking some of it to the press.

Then again, the feds surely would like to see Vick prosecuted for cruelty to animals under Virginia law, if (as we can assume based on the plain language of the indictment) the feds believe that Vick participated in the killing of dogs deemed not "game" enough to fight. The feds have no jurisdiction over such matters, and Vick could be facing at least eight counts that carry a potential sentence of one to five years each.

Still, the feds might choose to freeze Poindexter out until after the conspiracy charges are resolved, forcing Poindexter to monitor the federal prosecution (and attend the trial) in order to evaluate the evidence that is available regarding the dead dogs, and how it is that they came to be in that condition.

steelpride12
07-19-2007, 09:34 AM
Who's Surprised here bout alll this??? not me...

Atlanta Dan
07-19-2007, 10:47 AM
Poindexter is a complete fool. He refused to execute search warrants and stated several weeks ago he though #7 was being singled out due to his race and fame.

Since I doubt Poindexter only figured out in the last 48 hours this invovved brutal acts of animal cruelty, its appers he now recognizes there is a big downside to looking as if he sat on this case. But according to this Atlanta Journal-Constitutoon story, Poindexter's current "investigation" seems to be pretty sketchy:

A county prosecutor in Virginia said it is "more than likely" that Vick will face local as well as federal charges. Surry County, Va. prosecutor Gerald Poindexter's comment was reported in the Virginian-Pilot newspaper. Poindexter did not indicate to the paper what charges would be filed or what evidence local authorities had in the case.

Poindexter had told the AJC on Monday, the day before Vick was indicted, that he had not received one investigative report in the case....

Poindexter, the county prosecutor, has been criticized for moving slowly on a local investigation into the Vick dogfighting allegations, the Virginian-Pilot reported.

Poindexter said he was not sure which crime Vick would be charged with and that any indictment by a local grand jury could be two months away.

"But we're very moved by the idea of animals being executed," he said, according to the paper.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/19/0719vickap.html

The feds presumably will tell him in no uncertain terms to have a seat in the lobby while they do their jobs.

ChronoCross
07-19-2007, 11:04 AM
Poindexter is a complete fool. He refused to execute search warrants and stated several weeks ago he though #7 was being singled out due to his race and fame.

Since I doubt Poindexter only figured out in the last 48 hours this invovved brutal acts of animal cruelty, its appers he now recognizes there is a big downside to looking as if he sat on this case.

The feds will tell him in no uncertain terms to have a seat in the lobby while they do their jobs.

After it is all said and done. PoinDexter hand is being forced to file some type of charges(like on the killing of the dead dogs found), other wise he is putting his job on the line on such a high profile case by trying not to do anything and most likely he was trying to sweep it under the table at first(Feds have pushed his hand here to do the right thing hopefully).

The Duke
07-19-2007, 11:12 AM
I just can't wait to hear when Goodell talk to Vick

Livinginthe past
07-19-2007, 11:53 AM
I think, with Poindexter involved, we should wait for tomorrow's statement - it will likely be a 180 from todays - something along the lines of 'the evidence being inconclusive' and a probably smear on the strength of the case being built by the FBI.

ChronoCross
07-19-2007, 03:13 PM
NIKE DROPS THE FIRST SHOE ON VICK

After nearly 48 hours of hemming and hawing, one of the companies that pays Falcons quarterback Mike Vick a lot of money has taken action in response to Vick's indictment on federal conspiracy charges. The AP reports that Nike has decided to suspend the release of the latest product line named for Vick.

Retailers have been told that the Nike Air Zoom Vick V will not be distributed. Other Vick-related Nike products will remain in stores.

We've previously reported that Nike is expected not to abruptly dump Vick, but to eventually part ties with him in a move that will appear to be somewhat mutual.

Oh, and the story is already front-page news on the website owned and operated by the NFL.

MACH1
07-19-2007, 03:38 PM
How many teammates is vick going to take down with him or other players from different teams??? Someone like portis, who doesn't think dog fightings that bid of deal?
Any guesses...

Atlanta Dan
07-19-2007, 03:58 PM
How many teammates is vick going to take down with him or other players from different teams??? Someone like portis, who doesn't think dog fightings that bid of deal?
Any guesses...

Be careful what you wish for - you may recall Joey Porter had a dog that killed a neighbor's miniature horse; that dog may just have been naturally aggressive but maybe not. The dog was not put down but was returned by Porter to California (to live with Porter's other dogs?)

Once these sorts of endeavors start unraveling they often go in unfortunate directions.

I am sure the NFL wants this contained.

Atlanta Dan
07-19-2007, 04:12 PM
Blank 'distressed' by Vick situation

Falcons owner Arthur Blank said Thursday the team is "exploring our options" in the wake of Michael Vick's federal indictment on dogfighting charges.

"We know you're anxious to hear more from us regarding the indictment of Michael Vick and its implications to the Falcons," Blank said in his first public comment on the matter, issued as a "statement to fans."

"Please be assured that we are working diligently on exploring our options and getting the right people involved in this situation," Blank said in the statement.

"This is an emotionally charged and complicated matter. There are a wide range of interests and legal issues that need to be carefully considered as we move ahead, including our need to respect the due process that Michael is entitled to. Also, this situation affects everyone ? our club, our players and associates, our sponsors, our fans and the Atlanta community among them ? so we must consider all of our customers in making any decisions.

"Given the differing perspectives and strong feelings around this issue, we probably won't make everyone happy, but we are committed to doing the right thing. As the owner of this club that's, ultimately, my responsibility," Blank said.

"In the meantime, know that I'm saddened and distressed about this ? not for myself, but for our fans and community who have been so loyal to us. We will do our very best to continue to earn your support," he concluded.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/19/0719vickap.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Once a growing bad publicity snowball starts downhill it is hard to out run it; ask Don Imus - i think Vick goes on a leave of absence with pay, which will result in Blank taking the biggest hit as Vick fans boycott a half-filled Georgia Dome while the Falcons go 4-12 with Joey Harrington taking the snaps.

Think Bobby Petrino wonders why in the world he left Louisville for this?

Preacher
07-19-2007, 04:27 PM
Blank 'distressed' by Vick situation

Falcons owner Arthur Blank said Thursday the team is "exploring our options" in the wake of Michael Vick's federal indictment on dogfighting charges.

"We know you're anxious to hear more from us regarding the indictment of Michael Vick and its implications to the Falcons," Blank said in his first public comment on the matter, issued as a "statement to fans."

"Please be assured that we are working diligently on exploring our options and getting the right people involved in this situation," Blank said in the statement.

"This is an emotionally charged and complicated matter. There are a wide range of interests and legal issues that need to be carefully considered as we move ahead, including our need to respect the due process that Michael is entitled to. Also, this situation affects everyone ? our club, our players and associates, our sponsors, our fans and the Atlanta community among them ? so we must consider all of our customers in making any decisions.

"Given the differing perspectives and strong feelings around this issue, we probably won't make everyone happy, but we are committed to doing the right thing. As the owner of this club that's, ultimately, my responsibility," Blank said.

"In the meantime, know that I'm saddened and distressed about this ? not for myself, but for our fans and community who have been so loyal to us. We will do our very best to continue to earn your support," he concluded.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/19/0719vickap.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Once a growing bad publicity snowball starts downhill it is hard to out run it; ask Don Imus - i think Vick goes on a leave of absence with pay, which will result in Blank taking the biggest hit as Vick fans boycott a half-filled Georgia Dome while the Falcons go 4-12 with Joey Harrington taking the snaps.

Think Bobby Petrino wonders why in the world he left Louisville for this?

I would fall over laughing.. .if Vick is benched, or gone for a year, and Harrington takes the team to the SB... or wins it! Heck, I would even route for 'em... because in that case, they would have done the right thing, provided he is guilty ( I REALLY haven't followed it, so I had to put that caveat in).

However, Everyone ALSO needs to remember that a Grand Jury does not try a case... they, in MANY cases, though not all... are very close to a rubber stamp. As the old saying goes, the grand jury would indict a ham sandwich if asked to.

MACH1
07-19-2007, 05:22 PM
Be careful what you wish for - you may recall Joey Porter had a dog that killed a neighbor's miniature horse; that dog may just have been naturally aggressive but maybe not. The dog was not put down but was returned by Porter to California (to live with Porter's other dogs?)

Once these sorts of endeavors start unraveling they often go in unfortunate directions.

I am sure the NFL wants this contained.

I'm not wishing for it, just thinking this has possibility's of getting very big and ugly. And yeah who knows where it could go or end.

revefsreleets
07-19-2007, 05:59 PM
This is all Bobby Petrino's doing. He's a genius. Think about it. Blank left him with a QB he didn't want (Vick) and traded Schaub away before he had any say in the matter. Petrino wants Brian Brohm, so he leaks all this dog fighting stuff to the media, Vick gets caught, the Falcons have a bad year under Joey Harrington, and they draft Brohm with the 4th pick in next years draft. The beauty is that he gets a pass for having a bad first year because none of these doings are his own.

Hey, why not?

Atlanta Dan
07-19-2007, 06:20 PM
This is all Bobby Petrino's doing. He's a genius. Think about it. Blank left him with a QB he didn't want (Vick) and traded Schaub away before he had any say in the matter. Petrino wants Brian Brohm, so he leaks all this dog fighting stuff to the media, Vick gets caught, the Falcons have a bad year under Joey Harrington, and they draft Brohm with the 4th pick in next years draft. The beauty is that he gets a pass for having a bad first year because none of these doings are his own.

Hey, why not?

This disaster does give Petrino a free pass for what already was going to be a difficult season. Whatever happens will be blamed (deservedly as far as I am concerned) on Mr. Mexico.

RoethlisBURGHer
07-19-2007, 07:33 PM
This disaster does give Petrino a free pass for what already was going to be a difficult season. Whatever happens will be blamed (deservedly as far as I am concerned) on Mr. Mexico.

True,this franchise has risen and fallen with Vick since he was drafted.He's been labeled a coach killer (and I think he is).

Think about it...Dan Reeves was fired for poor performance...from Vick.

Jim Mora Jr was fired for poor performance...from Vick.

I am pretty sure Petrino doesn't want Vick as his QB.

ben2hines=6
07-19-2007, 07:59 PM
i hope this piece of junk sits in jail for 40years......i hate this kind of stupidity

ChronoCross
07-19-2007, 11:17 PM
Sign and tell how you feel about this issue and to suspend Vick;
Post on your other forums to. Get as many as we can.

http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/afalcons_vick_2

and

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?mvick07

Atlanta Dan
07-20-2007, 06:43 AM
Sign and tell how you feel about this issue and to suspend Vick;
Post on your other forums to. Get as many as we can.

http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/afalcons_vick_2

and

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?mvick07

Petitions are nice; boycotts are better.

It appears Vick's only current big endorsement contract is with Nike. You can quit buying Nike and tell stores that carry Nike you are not shopping there until Vick's endorsement contract is terminated.

Otherwise, unless you are a Falcons season ticket holder and plan to ask for your money back there is not a lot of leverage.

IMO Blank is going to put him on leave with pay. Blank knows leave without pay probably would be a loser under the CBA (although the NFLPA is going to look bad appealing a suspension of this creep) but if Vick plays the protests in and outside the staium at Falcons games are going to be a circus.

tony hipchest
07-23-2007, 06:55 PM
im thinking a seperate thread on this will probably be started, but vick was ordered by goodell to not show up to camp until the NFL further reviews his indictment.

nice for them to take a stand and not put it in the teams hands (weve seen how well that works with the bungles)

Sith Lord
07-23-2007, 06:55 PM
Not that we care but.....

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3856472&version=5&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Atlanta Dan
07-23-2007, 07:05 PM
im thinking a seperate thread on this will probably be started, but vick was ordered by goodell to not show up to camp until the NFL further reviews his indictment.

nice for them to take a stand and not put it in the teams hands (weve seen how well that works with the bungles)

Actually I think Goodell wanted Blank to pull the trigger but Blank simply could not put Vick down - this way Blank can blame the league if Vick stays or if Joey Harrington takes the wheel.

tony hipchest
07-23-2007, 07:13 PM
Actually I think Goodell wanted Blank to pull the trigger but Blank simply could not put Vick down - this way Blank can blame the league if Vick stays or if Joey Harrington takes the wheel.the players union might be more likely to fight a team decision vs. a league decision though.

it seems the commish has much more leeway with this player conduct policy than individual teams.

but i agree with your take. goodell has to wish these teams would keep this crap in house so he doesnt constantly have to play "big brother" and be the bad guy.

im sure he's thought of how easy tagliabue had it before anyone cared about player conduct, has crossed his mind.

"thanks tags :thumbsup:"

Atlanta Dan
07-23-2007, 07:22 PM
Here is a wire story with excerpts from Goodell's letter to Vick

NEW YORK (July 23, 2007) -- Commissioner Roger Goodell has ordered Michael Vick of the Atlanta Falcons not to report to the team’s training camp pending the completion of an NFL review of his recent indictment by a federal grand jury in Richmond, Va., for allegedly participating in an interstate dog-fighting enterprise.

Commissioner Goodell informed Vick that the review would be completed as soon as possible and that Vick’s full cooperation is expected.

In a letter to Vick today, Commissioner Goodell said: "While it is for the criminal justice system to determine your guilt or innocence, it is my responsibility as commissioner of the National Football League to determine whether your conduct, even if not criminal, nonetheless violated league policies, including the Personal Conduct Policy."

Vick will not forfeit his preseason pay during his excused absence from training camp.

Commissioner Goodell also directed the Falcons today to withhold any contemplated team discipline regarding the Vick matter until the NFL review is completed.

As I suspected, Goodell provides the heat shield for Blank. Glad to see Goodell draws the distinction between due process in a criminal trial and the separate rights that are involved in employee misconduct that reflects adversely on the employer. That point will be too subtle for most of Vick's supporters, but so is anything else not written in crayon.

Cannot imagine Vick is coming back anytime soon; hard to see his attorneys telling him to "cooperate fully" in any internal investigation. Also a terrible fact pattern for the NFLPA to be asserting CBA/mega-millionaire player rights.

tony hipchest
07-23-2007, 07:35 PM
Cannot imagine Vick is coming back anytime soon; hard to see his attorneys telling him to "cooperate fully" in any internal investigation. Also a terrible fact pattern for the NFLPA to be asserting CBA/mega-millionaire player rights.did you see vick hired high profile billy martin today? i dont know who is is but i definitely recognized the high profile players he's represented in the past. his resume (as a prosecutor and working with the big dogs) made me believe he wont be cheap. my 1st thought was scott peterson hiring gerragos.

part of me wants to feel bad for owners who draft players such as pacman or vick, cause they feel as soon as they cut a player another team will snatch them up only for that player to be cleared and lead a productive career. its like holdin onto that stock you had so much faith in, even though its clearly in a freefall.

but then again thats the nature of the beast. for every criminal good player, there is a non-criminal ryan leaf who is simply a bust. these owners cant be provided a safety net or given salary cap relief for admitting they made a mistake and cutting their losses short.

Atlanta Dan
07-23-2007, 07:45 PM
did you see vick hired high profile billy martin today? i dont know who is is but i definitely recognized the high profile players he's represented in the past. his resume (as a prosecutor and working with the big dogs) made me believe he wont be cheap. my 1st thought was scott peterson hiring gerragos.

part of me wants to feel bad for owners who draft players such as pacman or vick, cause they feel as soon as they cut a player another team will snatch them up only for that player to be cleared and lead a productive career. its like holdin onto that stock you had so much faith in, even though its clearly in a freefall.

but then again thats the nature of the beast. for every criminal good player, there is a non-criminal leaf who is simply a bust. these owners cant be provided a safety net or given salary cap relief for admitting they made a mistake and cutting their losses short.

Billy Martin got NBA player Jayson Williams off after he got drunk and killed a limo driver while fooling around with a shotgun (and initially had his posse claim the driver killed himself:jawdrop:). Martin, who now heads up the white collar defense practice with Sutherland Asbill in DC, also was one of the numerous attorneys who defended former Atlanta mayor Bill Campbell, who was convicted on tax charges but acquitted on the RICO counts. Some observers were less impressed with Martin's performance in the Campbell trial than others. He does not come cheap.

tony hipchest
07-23-2007, 07:56 PM
Billy Martin got NBA player Jayson Williams off after he got drunk and killed a limo driver while fooling around with a shotgun (and initially had his posse claim the driver killed himself:jawdrop:). Martin, who now heads up the white collar defense practice with Sutherland Asbill in DC, also was one of the numerous attorneys who defended former Atlanta mayor Bill Campbell, who was convicted on tax charges but acquitted on the RICO counts. Some observers were less impressed with Martin's performance in the Campbell trial than others. He does not come cheap.the j. williams case was the one i recognized most. the others seemed to be high profile clients on lesser charges (although williams was probably one of his richest clients too.)

that was a shame as williams was always one of my favorite nba personalities. shame he had to screw around with guns like vick did with dogs. atleast with williams there was the non intent to fall back on even though him and vick suffered the same stupidity and air of celebrity invincability.

i wonder if the "witnesses" in the vick case will be more reliable than the "victim" in the duke lacross case.

it appears that its all about smearing the CW's now.

Atlanta Dan
07-23-2007, 08:11 PM
it appears that its all about smearing the CW's now.

It always is:smile:

One of the toughest parts of a prosecutor's job is how to deal with addressing the plea agreement with the jury when the CW takes the stand. Jurors hate snitches; the test is whether they hate the defendant even more.

rog
07-23-2007, 08:13 PM
Since this indictment came down I have been trying to watch the events unfold as closely as I can. One of the 1st things that came to mind was the Kobe Bryant rape case. I remember Kobe holding the press conference with his wife to declare his innocents. This has lead me to wonder why Vick has yet to be heard from. I know if I was charged with something I did not do I would be screaming my innocents to anyone that would listen. In my opinion his silence is saying alot but it's not helping. There is noway he is going to play a down this year or for that matter even be at training camp. I believe he should be suspended for the entirer year.

Atlanta Dan
07-23-2007, 08:20 PM
One of the 1st things that came to mind was the Kobe Bryant rape case. I remember Kobe holding the press conference with his wife to declare his innocents. This has lead me to wonder why Vick has yet to be heard from. I know if I was charged with something I did not do I would be screaming my innocents to anyone that would listen.

The prosecutors can use anything he says against him. Combine that with the fact he is way less than the sharpest knife in the drawer while never taking former Coach Reeves up on the suggestion to take lessons to improve his diction and the best advice he has received in the last week is to keep his mouth shut.

Falcons have a press conference at 4 p.m. tomorrow now that Goodell has taken the pressure off Blank to do something. I doubt #7 will be in attendance.

tony hipchest
07-23-2007, 08:24 PM
It always is:smile:

One of the toughest parts of a prosecutor's job is how to deal with addressing the plea agreement with the jury when the CW takes the stand. Jurors hate snitches; the test is whether they hate the defendant even more. even worse than jurors hating the snitch is the cellmates they room with. still, vick has an uphill battle then. worse than a snitch has got to be dog killers and baby rapers.


im curious, is a snitches plea deal ever contingint on a conviction? im thinking this is just a roll of the dice before a trial begins (on the party offering the "deal"), which makes me think a snitch can "throw the case", still get lesser punishment, and hopefully not get one of their homies/partners into trouble.

once a snitch goes states (or feds) witness, their deal is their deal, right?

Atlanta Dan
07-23-2007, 08:40 PM
even worse than jurors hating the snitch is the cellmates they room with. still, vick has an uphill battle then. worse than a snitch has got to be dog killers and baby rapers.


im curious, is a snitches plea deal ever contingint on a conviction? im thinking this is just a roll of the dice before a trial begins (on the party offering the "deal"), which makes me think a snitch can "throw the case", still get lesser punishment, and hopefully not get one of their homies/partners into trouble.

once a snitch goes states (or feds) witness, their deal is their deal, right?

Guilty plea/plea agreement is entered before trial; sentencing of everyone after trial. Otherwise you would have people get their sentence and then forget to be cooperative on the stand. They would have breached their plea deal but once the big fish swam away double jeopardy bars a retrial of an acquitted defendant. The flip side of needing to hold off sentencing until after trial is that it allows defense lawyers to claim on cross the witness will say anything to avoid messing up their plea deal and future sentencing.

All the prosecutor can do is make a recommendation on sentencing; sentence is the judge's call. The sentencing recommendation It is not contingent on a conviction but is contingent in providing "substantial assistance.".

You plead guilty to what you are charged with, so if the guilty plea includes a charge to a lesser crime you are halfway home before sentence is ever imposed. We do not yet know the charges to which the CWs may have entered pleas (one of which apparently is Vick's cousin - ruh-roh)

OneForTheToe
07-23-2007, 09:03 PM
edited: since it was already posted that Vick is suspended fromt going to Camp

tony hipchest
07-23-2007, 09:12 PM
We do not yet know the charges to which the CWs may have entered pleas (one of which apparently is Vick's cousin - ruh-roh)thanks for the clarification and great info :thumbsup:

i had heard today that vicks cousin may be 1 of the chirping birds.

ironic that it was this dumbass practically slanging dope on the street corner that brought the heat down on the whole operation in the 1st place, otherwise we dont know how long the dogfighting ring wouldve gone undetected.

stlrtruck
07-24-2007, 11:42 AM
Look out Cinci, you've got a new QB coming your way!!!!

CantStop85
07-24-2007, 12:35 PM
Look out Cinci, you've got a new QB coming your way!!!!

Nah, I think you guys might need him more...besides, he's Kordell Jr. :wink02:

Atlanta Dan
07-24-2007, 01:45 PM
Nah, I think you guys might need him more...besides, he's Kordell Jr. :wink02:

You got the Kordell part right

I have been calling Vick Kordell Stewart Version 2.0 for years (their career passer ratings in the low 70s are quite similar) and had been drawing fire for it until recently - for some reason the Vick supporters in Atlanta have gone to ground for the time being.

Jman
07-24-2007, 01:51 PM
You got the Kordell part right

I have been calling Vick Kordell Stewart Version 2.0 for years (their career passer ratings in the low 70s are quite similar) and had been drawing fire for it until recently - for some reason the Vick supporters in Atlanta have gone to ground for the time being.

I may be wrong but I've heard :computer: even protestors outside the team's training facility. It would seem there are people on both sides of the fence in Atlanta on this one.

Am I way off?

Atlanta Dan
07-24-2007, 03:24 PM
I may be wrong but I've heard :computer: even protestors outside the team's training facility. It would seem there are people on both sides of the fence in Atlanta on this one.

Am I way off?

You are not way off - people in Atlanta are on both sides of the fence, but in terms of those with whom I have had good natured debates in the past in ATL those folks have had it. You hear the ritual incantations of innocent until proven guilty but Vick is assumed to have done it - the fallback argument is that he is being "targeted" since only morons like Emmitt Smith see no problems with attending and betting on dogfights

Of course if I was sufficiently armed to go visit Club 112 or Magic City in Atlanta I know Vick's core supporters would still get in my grille. Vick's core demographic of supporters and my social and business circles do not overlap a lot.

As I have posted at length, race and income have driven opinions on Vick for years in ATL and that now has boiled over.

Atlanta Dan
07-24-2007, 03:33 PM
Streaming video of Falcons press conference Blank, McKay & Petrino - odd video juxtaposition of talking Falcon head in one square while Vick highlights run in another square.

Falcons wanted a 4 game suspension and the league talked them out of it.

Blank says leave with pay for Vick is a non-starter that he rejected; my impression is that Blank will be damned if he is paying someone to sit out and draw $6 million.

Notes Vick is named 50 times in the indictment and that Vick needs to focus on getting his life together. "Disappointed" that Vick finds himself in this position.

Expects Goodell to move quickly "over the next several months" assuming Vick "cooperates."


My impression is that Vick is out for the year; can't see Goodell exonerating Vick and getting in the line of fire.

tony hipchest
07-24-2007, 07:51 PM
pat kirwan is one of the growing many who thinks vick needs to be cut from the team. today he explained that if the falcons cut vick today they will actually get 6 mil of cap relief. next year is when they will take a 15 mil hit. he explained that with the cap increasing again next year along with 2 of 4 high priced aging veterans that are likely to be cut (such as l. milloy and w. gandy) they will have plenty of room to take this hit and absorb the loss, and still have $100,000,000 to fund the team for the year. but thats next year....


Where do Falcons go from here?


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/10267493


(July 24, 2007) -- Now that they have faced the media regarding the Michael Vick situation, the business of putting the best team on the field is the challenge facing the Atlanta Falcons front office and coaching staff right now.

Here are the things Atlanta likely will look into when camp gets going July 26 without Vick:

1. Without Vick, someone has to pick up the slack in the area of throws per practice. Instead of four quarterbacks throwing at every practice, there will be only three arms working, and in less than one week -- or 14 practices -- someone's arm is going to be dragging. So they must think about getting another camp arm right away. How about former NFL Europa star J.T. O'Sullivan?

2. Put the personnel department on overtime working to evaluate the quarterback depth on all 31 teams. Philadelphia, Chicago, Tampa Bay and Cleveland might be good places to start. The Falcons don't expect to trade for a big-time starter at this point, but they might get a shot at a solid player who could be their No. 2 behind Joey Harrington. Kelly Holcomb in Philadelphia would be a guy I would go sometime after the second preseason game. No team is going to move a backup quarterback much earlier than that and leave itself vulnerable.

3. There doesn't appear to be any interest in Daunte Culpepper, Drew Bledsoe or Vick's cousin, Aaron Brooks, so don't count on any of those players being signed now or later. Of course, if Harrington were to get hurt early in camp, then all bets are off.

4. Take all phone calls from teams around the league who might feel they have an answer to the Falcons' quarterback situation.

5. Decide as quickly as possible if D.J. Shockley or Chris Redman can take over this football team if Harrington gets injured or falters. Then decide how much of the original offense, put in while Vick was at the facility, still can be used with the rest of the quarterbacks on the roster.

Finally, with brand new head coach Bobby Petrino trying to set this team up in his image and establish how things are going to be for years to come, this is a big challenge. An offense developed around Harrington will be a lot more conservative looking, but could be just as effective.

Who is Atlanta's real quarterback of the future? Most likely, he is still in college right now, and this is just a bump in the road.

Atlanta Dan
07-24-2007, 08:32 PM
Atlanta Journal-Constitution has a good read on various options that have been considered.

Cut Vick

Although this was not the most popular choice, team officials seriously pondered this option until the realization that it brought serious complications that could be spared by pursuing another route.

The salary-cap implications, which would cost the Falcons roughly $21 million over the next two seasons, were not the deterrent. Possible grievances by Vick and the players union were. The collective bargaining agreement does not allow teams to cut players for disciplinary reasons and there would be no way the Falcons could mask the release of Vick any other way.

Therefore, talk of cutting the franchise player was tempered — for now. ...

Suspend Vick

This is what Blank and the Falcons' leaders wanted to do. However, teams are only allowed to suspend players for four games based on the collective bargaining agreement and Vick would have been able to come to training camp and be at the facility, causing a potential distraction the team wanted to avoid.

After four games Vick would have been able to return, but the cloudiness of his legal situation and the stability of the team prompted more questions than answers about a team-imposed suspension.

"It's very complicated stuff," the person said. "There were a multitude of issues."

At first, Goodell was on board with the Falcons' course of action but as more conversations took place, he felt more time was needed to figure out a solution.

Allow Vick to play

This was discussed but the magnitude of everything in play left it overshadowed by some form of sanction. Fan reaction played heavily into this option but so did what was best for the franchise and for Vick.

NFL suspend Vick

Though this was discussed, it was Goodell who preached patience throughout the discussions. With this being uncharted territory, precedents for the future would be established and a rush to judgment in any direction could have long-term ramifications.

However, this could be the most likely option should the NFL investigation show that Vick violated the recently strengthened player code of conduct. Unlike the four-game maximum suspension a team can levy, Goodell could hand down a season-long suspension, as he did to Tennessee's Adam "Pacman" Jones.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/24/0725nflvick.html

The Falcons & NFL have lost control of the PR on this - there is no way to spin being accused of electrocuting dogs when perhaps the best ad in last year's Super Bowl was the down & out mutt who got splashed with mud and conned his way onto the Budweiser beer wagon as a dalmatian - lucky for that dog he never met up with #7.

http://www.ifilm.com/video/2819653

The consensus in Atlanta tonight is that Vick will never play another down for the Falcons.

fansince'76
07-24-2007, 09:00 PM
I really feel for Petrino and Falcons fans in all this - neither of them deserve this.

The Duke
07-24-2007, 09:14 PM
I really feel for Petrino and Falcons fans in all this - neither of them deserve this.

I feel bad for them, but I feel worse for the dogs. Vick should go to jail and forget about the NFL, he's done.

tony hipchest
07-24-2007, 09:15 PM
Atlanta Journal-Constitution has a good read on various options that have been considered.

[I]Cut Vick

Although this was not the most popular choice, team officials seriously pondered this option until the realization that it brought serious complications that could be spared by pursuing another route.

The salary-cap implications, which would cost the Falcons roughly $21 million over the next two seasons, were not the deterrent. Possible grievances by Vick and the players union were. The collective bargaining agreement does not allow teams to cut players for disciplinary reasons and there would be no way the Falcons could mask the release of Vick any other way.

Therefore, talk of cutting the franchise player was tempered ? for now. ...

.pat kirwan practically admonished yesterdays callers who kept saying that cutting vick would cost 21 mil. i didnt bother looking it up cause i know i will never find better cap sources than the ones kirwan uses (and i would say hes better informed on all cap and managerial issues than any talking head out there).

by him saying the falcons would get 6 mil in cap relief for this season tells me that it is only his base salary that is counting towards the cap this year and only the remaining portion of his bonus would need to be paid off next year. (15 mil)

it would be like saying the steelers took a 4 mil cap hit for cutting porter.

like the article said, this is unchartered territiory and is definitely opening a can of legal worms. you would think the new coach could cut a player who some say sucks, is a tremendous salary cap burden, and who isnt even able to show up on the 1st day of camp. never mind that the player is scum and a distraction to the team.

saying he would be cut for disciplinary reasons assumes he is guilty and i think he would be cut for the simple fact that a player who cant play isnt worth it.

i havent heard a peep about the players union going to bat for tank johnson. then again tank probably isnt paying as much dues as vick. it only makes sense the union would ignore him being cut for "disciplinarian reasons".

anyways al davis may be kicking himself for drafting a qb with the slight possibility of being able to sign vick. actually thats a bad idea. vick would probably just hose him down and electrocute him to put him out of his "misery". (we all know what happens to dogs who cant win).

Atlanta Dan
07-24-2007, 09:38 PM
AJC ran its numbers before the indictment in a July 10 story, since Vick crashing is not exactly a bolt out of the blue:

If a player is released after June 1, the portion of the bonus(es) that were originally scheduled to count against that year's cap still do so, but the remaining cap impact is deferred until the following year. If the Falcons were to trade or cut Vick later this summer, $6 million-plus would count against the 2007 cap and the rest ($15 million-plus) against the 2008 cap.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/printedition/2007/07/10/vick.html

I agree Kirwan probably has it right but it does not matter what the # is - if Vick has to go the cap will not be a consideration.

As fansince76 says, this is horrible for real Falcons fans (as opposed to transplants like me who root for them as an afterthought). I actually felt sorry for Arthur Blank today, who realizes his franchise has been done in by a thug who has been sending out signs for years that he was a train wreck waiting to happen.

tony hipchest
07-24-2007, 09:55 PM
.

As fansince76 says, this is horrible for real Falcons fans (as opposed to transplants like me who root for them as an afterthought). I actually felt sorry for Arthur Blank today, who realizes his franchise has been done in by a thug who has been sending out signs for years that he was a train wreck waiting to happen.for sure. and as kirwan was saying today, if the falcons do cut vick (15 or 21 mil) it will not be the end of the world for the falcons or their hopes. new coaches typically start trimming the expensive veteran fat in their 1st 2 seasons anyways. cut or uncut, the falcons are still invested in a player who probably will not be able to play.

not only do the falcons look at the financial impact vick has had on the franchise, it cant be easy looking at ladainian tomlinson, knowing that is essentially what they gave up to get vick. they know as soon they dump him somebody will pick him up.

Elvis
07-25-2007, 05:33 AM
I just think that I will wait and see what happens in this case before I pass judgement on the young man. If he did what theyre saying.. then the Falcons and the NFL needs to make a bold statement and not let this guy back in ....
:coffee:

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
07-25-2007, 07:45 PM
This guy is a true ass in every sense of the word. Vick didn't "grasp the ramifications of his circumstances and he thinks it going to "blow over." :rofl: Are you freaking kidding me?!??!?!

Ahh they found 15+ dead dogs on his property, he would drown, shoot , electrocute, slam dogs against the ground, I dunno is this how a rational person treats their animals? This guy is a piece of work. Hey Vick fat chance in hell that this is going to blow over especially with PETA front and center.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-vickleave072407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Wall of resistance
By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports
July 24, 2007

Jason Cole
Yahoo! Sports
How Michael Vick reacts to the mandate from NFL commissioner Roger Goodell to skip training camp could have an impact well beyond whether the embattled Atlanta Falcons quarterback plays during the upcoming season.

Until Monday, when Goodell ordered Vick to stay away from the team's training camp while the league reviews the federal dogfighting charges against him, at least one person close to Vick felt he didn't fully grasp the ramifications of his circumstances.

"I wouldn't say he's delusional about the problem, but I don't think he sees it as being as big a deal as everybody else," the associate said. "He thinks it's going to blow over eventually ? He doesn't know how deep this goes."

That's why Vick had been resisting attempts from the Falcons to accept a leave of absence to deal with his case, according to multiple sources. Vick will be arraigned Thursday and is expected to spend months fighting the charges. Serious preparation for that began Monday when Vick hired high-profile attorney Billy Martin.

Martin could play a key role in the aftermath of Goodell's punishment. "Hopefully (Martin) can convince (Vick) that playing right now isn't a good idea," the associate said. "If Michael is with the team, it's going to be a circus every day."

Or as an NFL Players Association source said, the media will consistently raise the questions: "How is Vick playing? Is he distracted? Did he meet with his lawyers? What do his teammate think? Are people protesting?"

Moreover, what will potential jurors think?

The idea that Vick can play this season if the trial is going on simultaneously is difficult enough to comprehend. But if jurors get the idea that Vick doesn't take his predicament seriously, the perception could be even worse.

"It's almost like he'd be thumbing his nose at the whole process," the NFLPA source said. "This is serious stuff. He's fighting for his freedom."

The NFLPA hopes Vick decides to stay away on his own because it will prevent a potentially sticky situation.

Goodell has stopped short of suspending Vick so far under the guidelines of the personal conduct policy because Vick is a first-time offender under those guidelines. While Vick has had his share of embarrassments in his career (the water bottle incident at Miami International Airport this offseason, flipping off the fans last season and the "Ron Mexico"/herpes situation), he doesn't have any convictions or arrests on his record.

According to a source, that means Goodell will have trouble making a suspension stick. Worse, it could put the union in the position of having to fight the league on Vick's behalf, a potential public relations nightmare.

Beyond that, any battle over the personal conduct policy could eventually impact the suspensions already given to Adam "Pacman" Jones, Chris Henry and Tank Johnson.

Bottom line, the entire Vick issue has numerous far-reaching tentacles.

"Everything about this case has to be carefully considered because of all the ramifications," an NFL source said. "The league has to be careful because we don't know that what we do will be part of the federal investigation. Every step has to be analyzed."

Of course, Vick could solve the problem by stepping away.

Such a decision also would save Falcons owner Arthur Blank a public relations disaster. At this stage, he faces criticism from all sides. On Monday, approximately 50 people from People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals protested in front of team headquarters in Flowery Branch, Ga. PETA also picketed the NFL offices on Friday.

Yet, Blank acknowledged in a statement last week that "we must consider all of our customers in making any decisions," conceding that at least some ticket holders would prefer to see Vick play.

The NFL had patiently tried to convince Vick and/or Blank to take action since the indictment was announced July 17.

"Exasperated? Yeah, that's a pretty good way to describe how (the league) feels right now," said another league source. "I would say that (Goodell) is doing everything he can not to lose his cool, but his patience is running out right now. I think everybody with any common sense agrees that Vick can't be around the league right now and this thing can't keep going on much longer."

Or as a second league source said: "The commissioner has been waiting for the Falcons and Vick to do something. He's not waiting much longer."

That's why Goodell issued a release Monday night. The terms of the banishment were indefinite and it's obvious the league will have to strengthen the action to make it stick. That was implicit in a letter Goodell wrote to Vick.

"While it is for the criminal justice system to determine your guilt or innocence, it is my responsibility as commissioner of the National Football League to determine whether your conduct, even if not criminal, nonetheless violated league policies, including the Personal Conduct Policy," Goodell wrote.

tony hipchest
07-25-2007, 07:53 PM
"I wouldn't say he's delusional about the problem, but I don't think he sees it as being as big a deal as everybody else," the associate said. "He thinks it's going to blow over eventually … He doesn't know how deep this goes."to me, this attitude implies guilt. is he retarded enough to be saying "yeah i did it, whats the big deal?" or does he actually believe the charges have no chance of sticking?

it seems like the NFLPA wants no part of being forced into defending this piece of shit.

fansince'76
07-25-2007, 07:57 PM
to me, this attitude implies guilt. is he retarded enough to be saying "yeah i did it, whats the big deal?" or does he actually believe the charges have no chance of sticking?

it seems like the NFLPA wants no part of being forced into defending this piece of shit.

Yep, Vick is in deep doo-doo here. As Atlanta Dan pointed out, this isn't some podunk D.A. trying to make a name for himself (ala Kobe Bryant), these are the Feds, and they don't and won't screw around.

HometownGal
07-25-2007, 08:13 PM
Or as an NFL Players Association source said, the media will consistently raise the questions: "How is Vick playing? Is he distracted? Did he meet with his lawyers? What do his teammate think? Are people protesting?"


Who gives a flying fook what the media thinks or anyone else for that matter? Wonder what those poor animals were thinking while he was torturing and murdering them????

I have the perfect solution...

http://blog.peta.org/archives/Neuter_Vick.jpg

The Duke
07-25-2007, 08:18 PM
Who gives a flying fook what the media thinks or anyone else for that matter? Wonder what those poor animals were thinking while he was torturing and murdering them????

I have the perfect solution...

http://blog.peta.org/archives/Neuter_Vick.jpg

That could work :wink02:

stillers4me
07-25-2007, 08:26 PM
At least he would stop speading STD's.

83-Steelers-43
07-26-2007, 12:22 AM
Apparently Bill Parcells is upset with Vick..... :wink02:

http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/ne/ap/20070724/22/1428397471-people-ethical-treatment-animals-peta-member-bill-long-columbus-ohio.jpg?x=310&y=399&sig=88Iu6Y9h_HN78_AyD.mK0g--

83-Steelers-43
07-26-2007, 02:49 PM
FOX News is reporting that Vick is pleading "not guilty". Surrenders pass port. Is not permitted to buy or sell dogs...(really?). Anyways, stay classy Mike. Runs in the family.

WWIIOwheelz
07-26-2007, 10:49 PM
The indictment says the fights offered purses as high as $26,000, and that Vick once paid $23,000 to the owner of two pit bulls that had beaten Bad Newz Kennels dogs.

That owner is one of four cooperating witnesses cited in the document.

I missed that before. If that's true, he's cooked.

SteelCityMan786
07-26-2007, 10:51 PM
I missed that before. If that's true, he's cooked.

He's more then likely cooked.

If you're ever indicted by the government, you're moving day into a jail cell isn't far away.

Galax Steeler
07-27-2007, 04:15 AM
I think if he is guilty then I hope they give him what he deserves.

alittlejazzbird
07-27-2007, 09:52 AM
He's more then likely cooked..

The problem with "cooperating witnesses" in a dogfighting trial is that the witnesses themselves are so shady (and were also involved in the crime) that a good defense attorney, dealing with a potentially celebrity-struck jury, can create reasonable doubt about the credibility of those witnesses - i.e., "this guy is only cooperating in order to reduce his own punishment, so you can't really believe anything he says." It gets a little dicey when all the witnesses are as bad or worse than the defendants.

What Vick has to worry about more is the "superseding indictment" that apparently is coming early next month. That means one of two things - either that one (or more) of the defendants has decided to cooperate and will be removed from the indictment, or the more likely scenario, that significant additional charges are going to be filed.

More horrific details will then become public, and the defendants will have to start thinking about a plea deal, because the public will be up in arms all over again and the chances of getting an impartial jury on such a polarizing issue (those who adore Vick unconditionally vs. the rest of the world) will be slim to none. The other three defendants all have criminal records, so I can easily see a situation where they would take a reduced sentence in return for their testimony against Michael.

Vick can't do that, because a plea deal is an admission of guilt, and he knows he'll never play football again if he takes a plea deal. His only real shot at a football future is to take his chances with a jury and hope that they are awestruck enough by his celebrity, sufficiently moved by all the footballs and air conditioners he buys for his former neighbors back in the Newz, and sufficiently "culturally entrenched" that they, like Mike, don't think this dogfighting stuff is all that big a deal.

A hung jury or a mistrial is in my opinion the best chance he has at staying out of jail and/or ever playing football again. There will always be the Al Davises of the world who would give a guy like Vick a chance on his team, but my hunch is Roger Goodell will ban Michael for life if he is convicted or takes a deal.

alittlejazzbird
07-27-2007, 10:00 AM
By the way, did anybody notice that through all of Vick's carefully worded and supposedly carefully prepared statement, he never once apologized to the Atlanta Falcons fans? I understand his thinking of his family and his teammates, but the fans pay part of his salary and are really the reason why any football player has a job - without an audience, there's no reason for the NFL to exist. A token shout out to them would have been nice. Almost like giving them the bird all over again, no?

rbryan
07-27-2007, 10:32 AM
This is the best thing that could have happened for Falcon fans. They were never going to win anything with Vick at the helm. He is hands down the most over rated QB in NFL history. He has a lot of talent no doubt, but he is no QB. Should have made him a WR or Tailback.

Blank is a pretty shrewd operator, I think he sees this as an opportunity to unload that massive contract and start from scratch.

83-Steelers-43
07-27-2007, 12:39 PM
Just reported on FOX news that Reebok has suspended sales of Vick jersey's...LOL.

The Duke
07-27-2007, 01:02 PM
Just reported on FOX news that Reebok has suspended sales of Vick jersey's...LOL.

Dammit, I was planning on buying one :toofunny:

rbryan
07-27-2007, 01:11 PM
Something tells me you'll be able to pick them up pretty cheap at the discount stores.

83-Steelers-43
07-27-2007, 01:12 PM
Dammit, I was planning on buying one :toofunny:

Let me guess though. You were up in the air between a Vick or Anthony Smith jersey? So you hesitated. :wink02:

MACH1
07-27-2007, 01:15 PM
Something tells me you'll be able to pick them up pretty cheap at the discount stores.

Depends on how many peta's burned by now.

ChronoCross
07-27-2007, 01:20 PM
There is always Ebay.. The animal lovers will be selling theres of quickly..

memphissteelergirl
07-27-2007, 03:20 PM
*Sigh* I was hoping this would not happen, but I guess it was bound to...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=dw-vickhearing072607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

As an African-American, I get sick of the race card being dealt. This should not be about Vick getting persecuted becuse he is black. Yes, he is a person of color, but I don't give a flip if you're white, black, brown, or polka-dot...this is about the fact that you're supposed to be a decent, law-abiding citizen, not to mention having a healthy respect for animals.

rbryan
07-27-2007, 03:43 PM
I don't understand how people who are supposedly so upset about cruelty to animals can wish the same or worse on another human being, even if he is guilty. Never mind the fact that he hasn't been convicted yet.

Some of these PETA wackos need to get checked in for some pschiatric help. They're no better than the person they are judging.

Preacher
07-27-2007, 04:02 PM
*Sigh* I was hoping this would not happen, but I guess it was bound to...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=dw-vickhearing072607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

As an African-American, I get sick of the race card being dealt. This should not be about Vick getting persecuted becuse he is black. Yes, he is a person of color, but I don't give a flip if you're white, black, brown, or polka-dot...this is about the fact that you're supposed to be a decent, law-abiding citizen, not to mention having a healthy respect for animals.


Your so very wrong.

If a person is polka-dot... that means they have ebola... you had BETTER CARE!!!

:wink02:

Jman
07-27-2007, 04:11 PM
Dammit, I was planning on buying one :toofunny:

blasphemy! :flap:

ChronoCross
07-27-2007, 04:14 PM
Ok we all know there is no way to save vick. But this dude cracks me up on ebay. I about lost it when I seen this;

http://cgi.ebay.com/Save-Vick-com-info-Huge-Retail-Potential-Mike-Michael_W0QQitemZ230153418659QQihZ013QQcategoryZ11 153QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

ChronoCross
07-27-2007, 04:15 PM
haha.. there also selling ronmexicokennels.com

ChronoCross
07-27-2007, 04:22 PM
http://i5.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/ac/83/c416_12.JPG

CantStop85
07-27-2007, 04:47 PM
So I went to the pet store today and saw a guy there wearing a Vick jersey.

I almost choked on the irony.

Preacher
07-27-2007, 04:48 PM
So I went to the pet store today and saw a guy there wearing a Vick jersey.

I almost choked on the irony.



Speechless............ just speechless!

WVsteelersfan
07-27-2007, 05:38 PM
There is a site that is selling the "neuter vick" tees. "neutersickvick.com" Part of the profits go to an animal rescue ranch in Georgia. I bought one. Being "parent" to 8 rescue animals this kind of story makes me ill. I hope Michael Vick goes to prison and NEVER steps foot on any professional football field again.

Preacher
07-27-2007, 06:02 PM
There is a site that is selling the "neuter vick" tees. "neutersickvick.com" Part of the profits go to an animal rescue ranch in Georgia. I bought one. Being "parent" to 8 rescue animals this kind of story makes me ill. I hope Michael Vick goes to prison and NEVER steps foot on any professional football field again.

Yep...

My wife and I have a dog that was rescued. When we got her, she was six months from being found. Even when we had her, you could count every rib from 15 feet away, and she was a BEAGLE! You should not be able to do that on that small of a dog from that far away.

When she would run, her rear end would be about 2-4 inches off the ground, because her rear legs were not strong enough to keep her hind end up higher. Eventually, she got stronger.

However, if my wife or I raise our voice... or make a sudden move, even today, she lowers her head and starts shaking.

I would love to meet the idiot that did that to her.

Hey Vick... Provided that you are guilty... I hope you spend a LONG time in jail.

OneForTheToe
07-27-2007, 08:32 PM
Vick keeps getting in more and more doo-doo.

Vick co-defendant to enter plea deal


http://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/1832928/detail.html

Not good news probably for Vick. Almost assuredly he will be testifing for the Feds against Vick (or they wouldn't have given him the deal).

stillers4me
07-27-2007, 09:01 PM
I guess it's too late to order that Vick jersey I've been wanting....... :coffee:
I wonder if you can still order a personalized #7 Falcons jersey with FIDO on the back. :chuckle:

Nike, Reebok Freeze Sales of Michael Vick Merchandise (Update3)

By Aaron Kuriloff

July 27 (Bloomberg) -- Nike Inc. and Reebok International Ltd. suspended sales of Michael Vick signature apparel including jerseys and shoes a day after the Atlanta Falcons quarterback pleaded not guilty in federal court to a charge of conspiring to run an interstate dog-fighting operation.

Nike, the world's largest maker of athletic shoes, has suspended Vick's contract without pay and will not sell any more products bearing his name at this time, the Beaverton, Oregon- based company said today. It didn't end its relationship with the National Football League player.

Reebok also suspended sales of Vick's jerseys, even though it doesn't have an individual endorsement or sponsorship agreement with Vick, according to a statement from the company. The unit of Adidas AG, the world's second-biggest maker of sporting goods, is the official supplier of apparel and equipment to all 32 NFL teams.

Statements from both companies cited ``disturbing'' allegations against Vick as a reason for the freeze.

``Nike is concerned by the serious and highly disturbing allegations made against Michael Vick and we consider any cruelty to animals inhumane and abhorrent,'' the company said. ``However, we do believe that Michael Vick should be afforded the same due process as any citizen in the United States, therefore, we have not terminated our relationship.''

`Too Disturbing'

Reebok said in a statement that ``while we respect the legal process, we find the allegations against Mr. Vick too disturbing to ignore. Therefore, we have decided to immediately suspend selling Vick NFL product, both at retail and online.''

No Vick products were listed on the companies' Web sites this afternoon. Reebok said it is also honoring retail cancellations of Vick merchandise.

On July 19, Nike suspended the launch of Vick's latest shoe, his fifth, citing concerns about the ``highly disturbing allegations.'' Nike said it would continue to monitor Vick's legal situation.

``We are very pleased that Nike has today signaled it has a zero tolerance policy for athletes who may be involved with staged animal fights and other forms of malicious animal cruelty by indefinitely suspending its relationship with Vick,'' Wayne Pacelle, president and chief executive of the Humane Society, said in a statement.

Vick has worked with Nike since joining the league after the Falcons selected him with the first pick in the 2001 draft. Last year, he became the first NFL quarterback to run for more than 1,000 yards in a season. He had a career-high 20 touchdown passes and 13 interceptions as the Falcons went 7-9.

Video Game

Vick also appeared on the cover of Electronic Arts Inc.'s ``Madden 2004'' edition of the best-selling sports video game in history. His No. 7 jersey has ranked as high as second in the league for sales.

That was before Vick and three other men pleaded not guilty in federal court yesterday to a charge of conspiring to run an interstate dog-fighting operation. A grand jury indicted the men July 17.

According to the indictment, Vick and three other men -- Purnell Peace, Quanis Phillips and Tony Taylor -- based ``Bad Newz Kennels'' at a house in Smithfield, Virginia, that Vick purchased in 2001, about two months after he signed a six- year, $62 million contract with a $3 million signing bonus.

Participants established purses as high as $26,000, according to the indictment, while dog owners and spectators made side bets on the fights, which lasted until the death or surrender of the losing dogs. Losing dogs, and those unsuitable for fighting, were sometimes killed by drowning, hanging, beating, gunshot or electrocution, the indictment said.

All four men were allowed to stay out of jail without bond before a trial set for Nov. 26.

NFL Investigation

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on July 23 ordered Vick not to report to the Falcons' training camp. Goodell said the following day that he would appoint an independent lawyer to investigate the charges. The Falcons opened camp yesterday, while Vick was in court.

Vick has had other recent troubles. In November 2006, he made an obscene gesture toward local fans after a 31-13 home loss to the New Orleans Saints. In January 2007, police investigated Vick after finding signs of marijuana in a water bottle he carried at an airport security checkpoint in Miami. No charges were filed.

AirTran Airways, which has a hub in Atlanta, said in May that it wouldn't renew its sponsorship agreement with Vick, who appeared in billboard and radio advertisements. Vick's publicist blamed AirTran after the quarterback failed to arrive to speak before the U.S. Congress the previous month.

Another company listed as a sponsor on Vick's web site, Coca-Cola's Powerade, ended dealings with Vick three years ago when it changed its marketing strategy, spokeswoman Susan Stribling said.



Last Updated: July 27, 2007 21:28 EDT

Jman
07-27-2007, 09:27 PM
:confused:

nojobny
07-28-2007, 06:58 PM
And the hits just keep on coming.....



Upper Deck pulls Vick memorabilia, cards
NFL.com wire reports


CARLSBAD, Calif. (July 28, 2007) -- Upper Deck has removed all Michael Vick autographed memorabilia from its online store and will remove the indicted quarterback's trading card from NFL sets that are scheduled to be released in October.

The announcement by the San Diego County company came a day after Nike suspended its lucrative contract with Vick and Reebok took the unprecedented step of stopping sales of his No. 7 jersey. Another trading card company, Donruss, announced it was pulling Vick's likeness from any new packs.

"Of course we appreciate the fact that Mr. Vick is innocent until proven guilty, but the allegations alone have resulted in an outpouring of very strong emotion within our organization and among the collecting community," Kerri Stockholm, Upper Deck's director of marketing, said in a statement. "We believe collectors will agree and support this decision as being the best course of action for our football business."

Items pulled from the online store include autographed footballs, helmets, jerseys and the company's line of "Breaking Through" pieces. His card will be pulled beginning with the Ultimate Collection Football set.

The latest hit to Vick came two days after the Atlanta Falcons quarterback pleaded not guilty to federal dogfighting charges in Richmond, Va. In the indictment, he was accused of sponsoring a gruesome operation that often shot, hanged, drowned or electrocuted losing dogs.

Godfather
07-28-2007, 07:06 PM
Yep...

My wife and I have a dog that was rescued. When we got her, she was six months from being found. Even when we had her, you could count every rib from 15 feet away, and she was a BEAGLE! You should not be able to do that on that small of a dog from that far away.

When she would run, her rear end would be about 2-4 inches off the ground, because her rear legs were not strong enough to keep her hind end up higher. Eventually, she got stronger.

However, if my wife or I raise our voice... or make a sudden move, even today, she lowers her head and starts shaking.

I would love to meet the idiot that did that to her.

Hey Vick... Provided that you are guilty... I hope you spend a LONG time in jail.

Wow...I knew a stray beagle like that a few years ago. Someone dumped her in Algiers Point (across the river from the French Quarter). She was a normal weight, but she was timid. She wandered the streets for a few months before she settled on at a house on the next block.

A couple months later, she had puppies, including my Maximus and Stella.

Jman
07-28-2007, 07:57 PM
While all signs point to guilty, he is entitled to a fair and legal process....

steelpride12
07-28-2007, 08:05 PM
While all signs point to guilty, he is entitled to a fair and legal process....

God enough of all this Vick crap i say he don't play this season because he did it and we all know it.

Preacher
07-29-2007, 12:12 AM
God enough of all this Vick crap i say he don't play this season because he did it and we all know it.

Here is the problem...

Vick is absolutely innocent until proven guilty, however, the NFL, these other companies, etc... do not have to wait for that. All they need to do is understand that they may lose money... and they have the right to pull the adds, pull the business deals... pull the person from the team.

Godfather
07-29-2007, 10:07 AM
I guess it's too late to order that Vick jersey I've been wanting....... :coffee:
I wonder if you can still order a personalized #7 Falcons jersey with FIDO on the back. :chuckle:



Dunno, bt they already blocked #7 jerseys with "Ookie" on the back. Add that to Ron Mexico, and Vick is responsible for 2 names NFL Shop won't put on the back of a jersey.

Godfather
07-29-2007, 10:09 AM
Here is the problem...

Vick is absolutely innocent until proven guilty, however, the NFL, these other companies, etc... do not have to wait for that. All they need to do is understand that they may lose money... and they have the right to pull the adds, pull the business deals... pull the person from the team.

Agree 100%...he's certainly entitled to his day in court, but if you want endorsements you have to watch the company you keep.

LambertIsGod58
07-29-2007, 07:42 PM
Yes, he's entitled to his day in court. And he is innocent until proven guilty in our Justice System. But, I doubt that the GA county where this is taking place would move for the indictment if they didn't have all their ducks in a row. Come on, I have to believe Vick is involved. It happened on his property. Then you have the water botttle incident that was just swept under the carpet. Vick is a poser. Not an NFL starting QB IMO. If he could develop a presence in the pocket, he'd be more dangerous.

fansince'76
07-29-2007, 07:52 PM
While all signs point to guilty, he is entitled to a fair and legal process....

And if I'm a marketing exec for a company, I have every right NOT to extend, or continue to honor (I'm fairly certain there is a "character" clause of some sort written into every one of Vick's endorsement deals) a 7-figure contract to someone whose image, which is EVERYTHING in advertising, has been irreparably damaged.

Atlanta Dan
07-29-2007, 08:11 PM
If anyone ever wonders how formerly great civil rights organizations that contributed so much in the 50s and 60s have lost their moral standing by knee jerk playing of the race card, ponder this:

The SCLC is calling for more fair and balanced media coverage of the case and has plans to honor Vick next month during its national convention in Atlanta for his community leadership and contributions.:jawdrop:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/29/0730vick.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Preacher
07-29-2007, 08:14 PM
If anyone ever wonders how formerly great civil rights organizations that contributed so much in the 50s and 60s have lost their moral standing by knee jerk playing of the race card, ponder this:

The SCLC is calling for more fair and balanced media coverage of the case and has plans to honor Vick next month during its national convention in Atlanta for his community leadership and contributions.:jawdrop:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/29/0730vick.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab



Just a shame.

That kind of stuff just pollutes race discussions that need to happen.

Preacher
07-29-2007, 08:17 PM
And if I'm a marketing exec for a company, I have every right NOT to extend, or continue to honor (I'm fairly certain there is a "character" clause of some sort written into every one of Vick's endorsement deals) a 7-figure contract to someone whose image, which is EVERYTHING in advertising, has been irreparably damaged.

Yep, yep, and yep.

My hope is that people will start to learn from this.

ChronoCross
07-29-2007, 09:07 PM
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q315/terilyns/myrtlebeach010nw3.jpg

HometownGal
07-29-2007, 10:49 PM
Rumor has it that Michael Vick is going to be suspended by the NFL for at least the coming season. The NFL is afraid his presence in any stadium will cause a riot. I heard this on KDKA. Don't have a link yet, so at this point, I consider it only a rumor.

Paul Zeise from the Post-Gazette is on Sports Showdown on KDKA defending that bastard. :jawdrop: He is saying Goodell should not have the power to suspend Vick. What the hell does he think the commish should do - pat him on the back for torturing animals?

MACH1
07-30-2007, 12:18 AM
http://www.worstpreviews.com/images/underdog.gif
You can run, But you cant hide!

memphissteelergirl
07-30-2007, 09:19 AM
Agree 100%...he's certainly entitled to his day in court, but if you want endorsements you have to watch the company you keep.


You hit the nail on the head, brother!!

Jman
07-30-2007, 09:27 AM
Here is the problem...

Vick is absolutely innocent until proven guilty, however, the NFL, these other companies, etc... do not have to wait for that. All they need to do is understand that they may lose money... and they have the right to pull the adds, pull the business deals... pull the person from the team.

Absolutely. They are entitled to it.

Atlanta Dan
07-30-2007, 04:13 PM
Following up on the decision of the SCLC to discredit its past achievements by giving Vick a community service award, the NAACP chops away at its heritage of public service with these insightful comments:

The president of the Atlanta chapter of the NAACP criticized the prosecution of Vick at a news conference Monday morning. Dr. R.L. White, Jr., accused the government of "piling on."

"There's a penalty in football for piling on," White told reporters. "After a player has been tackled and somebody piles on, they're penalized for unnecessary roughness. Today, the NAACP blows the whistle and warns the powers that be that you are piling on."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/30/vick.dogfighting/index.html

"Piling on"??!!:dang:

On the basis of what; the feds should leave #7 alone after he already has been subjected to the sifting investigation of local DA Poindexter?

What next - a defense of dogfighting as just another hobby?

Atlanta Dan
07-30-2007, 06:00 PM
Attached is a link to the "statement of facts" to which Vick's former co-defendant, Tony Taylor, will testify.

http://alt.cimedia.com/ajc/pdf/vicktaylor0730.pdf

Apparently the real action is in winner take all jousts between 2 dogs, with each owner putting up 50% of the pot.

Taylor left the operation in the fall of 2004 (IMO Vick's cuz has flipped and will put Vick in the middle of events through 2007) but definitely puts Vick in a position as more than a passive investor. Vick's defense will focus on beating up 'T" and the as yet unidentified CWs.

Preacher
07-30-2007, 06:34 PM
hey Vick...

:wave:

See you in 3-5

stlrtruck
07-30-2007, 08:33 PM
hey Vick...

:wave:

See you in 3-5

You must have the gift of MERCY. :toofunny:

More like 15-20!!!

Atlanta Dan
07-30-2007, 08:47 PM
You must have the gift of MERCY. :toofunny:

More like 15-20!!!

My bet is the superseding indictment that is in the works may add RICO and/or money laundering counts, which definitely juices up the potential sentence.

Crushzilla
07-30-2007, 08:49 PM
One good thing is he can practice staying in the pocket in the cell.

TackleMeBen
07-30-2007, 10:54 PM
After the last 3-4 weeks, Arthur Blank's gonna think Tony Stewart's a choir boy. At least Smoke doesn't have the Feds crawling all over him like Michael Vick does.

Jman
07-30-2007, 10:55 PM
I hear the crowds chanting...

RI-CO!! RI-CO!!

SteelShooter
07-30-2007, 10:57 PM
:busted: The days look darker and darker for the Falcons (soon-to-be ex?) Quarterback. :busted:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/ATL/10274778

:jawdrop: Is this guy just trying to get a better deal for himself? Or is this for real? :jawdrop:

TackleMeBen
07-30-2007, 11:26 PM
:busted: The days look darker and darker for the Falcons (soon-to-be ex?) Quarterback. :busted:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/ATL/10274778

:jawdrop: Is this guy just trying to get a better deal for himself? Or is this for real? :jawdrop:
according to the news. this guy was kicked out of the house by vick. so it looks like he has an ax to grind with vick.. also they said that he has documents showing vicks involvement.

ChronoCross
07-30-2007, 11:30 PM
As more evidence shows. The more and more vick supporters should drop..

alittlejazzbird
07-31-2007, 02:43 PM
according to the news. this guy was kicked out of the house by vick. so it looks like he has an ax to grind with vick.. also they said that he has documents showing vicks involvement.

He may even be the one with the long-rumored video that shows Vick at a dogfight.

SteelCityMan786
07-31-2007, 03:18 PM
:busted: The days look darker and darker for the Falcons (soon-to-be ex?) Quarterback. :busted:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/ATL/10274778

:jawdrop: Is this guy just trying to get a better deal for himself? Or is this for real? :jawdrop:

Might be a case of a "better deal"

HometownGal
07-31-2007, 03:34 PM
Attached is a link to the "statement of facts" to which Vick's former co-defendant, Tony Taylor, will testify.

http://alt.cimedia.com/ajc/pdf/vicktaylor0730.pdf

Apparently the real action is in winner take all jousts between 2 dogs, with each owner putting up 50% of the pot.

Taylor left the operation in the fall of 2004 (IMO Vick's cuz has flipped and will put Vick in the middle of events through 2007) but definitely puts Vick in a position as more than a passive investor. Vick's defense will focus on beating up 'T" and the as yet unidentified CWs.

Thanks for the link and info, Dan. It appears from the Summary that Vick was involved in this demented operation up to his beady little eyeballs.

I hear Bubba is licking his chops for Vick's arrival at the federal pen.

MasterOfPuppets
07-31-2007, 04:35 PM
Thanks for the link and info, Dan. It appears from the Summary that Vick was involved in this demented operation up to his beady little eyeballs.

I hear Bubba is licking his chops for Vick's arrival at the federal pen.vicks STD ,may keep bubba at bay....:tap:

Atlanta Dan
08-01-2007, 04:12 PM
Did not see this in another thread, although HTG generally had noted P-G reporter Paul Zeise made a fool of himself on Pittsburgh TV as the latest moron attempting to put Vick's conduct "in perspective." I am glad to see people are being called out for attempting to play devil's advocate for Vick by saying what he did could have been worse.

Pittsburgh reporter said Vick better off raping woman

A newspaper reporter who said Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick would have been "better off raping a woman" than being charged with dogfighting has apologized and will no longer appear on the local sports panel TV show where he made the remark.

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reporter Paul Zeise made the comments Sunday night on the Sports Showdown show on KDKA-TV, a CBS affiliate. He was disagreeing with another panelist who said NFL commissioner Roger Goodell should suspend Vick for the rest of the season because he was indicted on federal dogfighting charges July 17.


"It's really a sad day in this country when somehow ... Michael Vick would have been better off raping a woman if you look at the outcry of what happened," Zeise said. "Had he done that, he probably would have been suspended for four games and he'd be back on the field. But because this has become a political issue, all of a sudden the commissioner has lost his stomach for it."

Zeise apologized Monday.

"I regret the poor choice of analogies I used to characterize a professional athlete's legal situation," Zeise said.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/01/bc.fbn.vick.reporterapo.ap/index.html

At what point are Vick's supporters going to recognize you cannot defend the indefensible?

SteelCityMan786
08-01-2007, 07:59 PM
I saw Zeise make those comments. I don't know what he was thinking considering KDKA isn't just around Pittsburgh. During select times of the day, we get it here to.

Atlanta Dan
08-02-2007, 03:49 PM
And now Donovan McNabb, whom i actually thought had sense, jams his feet into his mouth:

Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb expressed support for Michael Vick during an interview here Tuesday.

"I'm a supporter of Vick," McNabb said. "That's because I'm a good friend of his and also we're guys that obviously compete to win the Super Bowl. We push each other. Now, I don't know exactly what happened in that situation, and I think for all of us that have read over the stuff that was over the Internet, the report, you look at it as kind of like, 'Wow, you've got your so-called friends and family members turning their back on you now to make their situation better.' They're throwing you under the bus so that they can clean their name. That's unfortunate. That goes to show, I always have a saying that I've always lived by: If you can't trust family, who can you trust? It's an unfortunate situation, and I just hope everything works out well for him where he can get back out on the field."....

"As a football fraternity member, you just want those guys to have that opportunity to get back out there and maybe put that stuff behind them and change their life," McNabb said. "I think for some of the guys that have made the mistake and now that their season is taken away from them, the question goes out of what happens next. Because when some people get things like that taken away from them, they just continue to go down. You hope nothing but the best, that they've learned from their mistakes to move on where they can get back out on the field and play. Being suspended for a year? That's tough. That's tough. . . . You just want everything to kind of work out well for everybody, work out well for us as well as work out well for those guys."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/01/AR2007080102193.html

:dang: Words fail me in responding to this mindset of "the fraternity" forgiving any transgression by a fellow member of the jockocracy.

Preacher
08-02-2007, 04:19 PM
And now Donovan McNabb, whom i actually thought had sense, jams his feet into his mouth:

Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb expressed support for Michael Vick during an interview here Tuesday.

"I'm a supporter of Vick," McNabb said. "That's because I'm a good friend of his and also we're guys that obviously compete to win the Super Bowl. We push each other. Now, I don't know exactly what happened in that situation, and I think for all of us that have read over the stuff that was over the Internet, the report, you look at it as kind of like, 'Wow, you've got your so-called friends and family members turning their back on you now to make their situation better.' They're throwing you under the bus so that they can clean their name. That's unfortunate. That goes to show, I always have a saying that I've always lived by: If you can't trust family, who can you trust? It's an unfortunate situation, and I just hope everything works out well for him where he can get back out on the field."....

"As a football fraternity member, you just want those guys to have that opportunity to get back out there and maybe put that stuff behind them and change their life," McNabb said. "I think for some of the guys that have made the mistake and now that their season is taken away from them, the question goes out of what happens next. Because when some people get things like that taken away from them, they just continue to go down. You hope nothing but the best, that they've learned from their mistakes to move on where they can get back out on the field and play. Being suspended for a year? That's tough. That's tough. . . . You just want everything to kind of work out well for everybody, work out well for us as well as work out well for those guys."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/01/AR2007080102193.html

:dang: Words fail me in responding to this mindset of "the fraternity" forgiving any transgression by a fellow member of the jockocracy.

Yep.

People just don't get it.

BTW.... Zeise is probably right. a rape would have not brought the problems that this has. It goes to show that in this day and age... we have de-valued humans that much...

Livinginthe past
08-02-2007, 08:02 PM
Yep.

People just don't get it.

BTW.... Zeise is probably right. a rape would have not brought the problems that this has. It goes to show that in this day and age... we have de-valued humans that much...

I think one of the reasons this alleged crime hits harder than a rape case is because the 'innocence' of the victim is absolute.

People reading about sexual assaults tend to question the legitimacy of the complaint and the circumstances surrounding it.

stlrtruck
08-03-2007, 07:26 AM
I wonder what the modern players would do in the real world if they lost their jobs? I wonder how supportive they would be then of each other!

Shut up and play football!

rbryan
08-03-2007, 07:30 AM
McNabb looks like more of a jackass everytime he opens his mouth, regardless of the topic.

Preacher
08-03-2007, 04:56 PM
I think one of the reasons this alleged crime hits harder than a rape case is because the 'innocence' of the victim is absolute.

People reading about sexual assaults tend to question the legitimacy of the complaint and the circumstances surrounding it.

You know... your right to a point...

ChronoCross
08-12-2007, 09:14 PM
Two NFL sources said that commissioner Roger Goodell likely will announce this week or next the suspension of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick for the 2007 season.

"That's the direction it's going and has been from the time this started," one of the sources said this week.

In July, Goodell told Vick not to report to training camp in the aftermath of a federal indictment for his alleged involvement in dogfighting on a property he owned in Virginia. Vick has since been arraigned on the matter and is facing trial in November.

What is unclear is whether Vick will be allowed to return to the Falcons this season if he is acquitted. This offseason, Goodell suspended Tennessee Titans cornerback Adam "Pacman" Jones for the entire season but added stipulations that could allow Jones to return earlier if he clears his record.

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Said the other source: "The plan was to make sure it was announced before the season. Given what everybody has seen from what (league) security found and what the feds are telling us, there's really no choice."

From a public relations standpoint, the NFL would like the matter dealt with before the opening week of the season. The feeling is that if the league can resolve the matter now, any further news on Vick will not detract from the buildup to the season.

The NFL has examined the indictment against Vick at length and has conducted a quasi-investigation of its own. The league has not interviewed anyone associated with the case, but it has pored over as many public documents as it could find.

The most careful element of the suspension is how it will be worded. Under the league's new personal conduct policy, there is some belief that Vick could escape punishment because this is the first time he has been charged with a crime.

However, Goodell hinted last week that because Vick was charged with multiple counts, including gambling on dogfights, the league may have a way around that. In an interview with USA Today, Goodell said that while he was disturbed by the dogfighting accusations, the gambling aspect is just as meaningful.

"Listen, we're sickened by the allegations and the predicament Michael put himself in," Goodell said. "But there are a lot of things in the indictment that concern the NFL that may not be of a greater concern from a law enforcement standpoint."

The NFL's gambling policy, which was established long before the personal conduct policy, has resulted in the suspension of players in the past. Both Paul Hornung and Alex Karras were suspended for the entire 1963 season after admitting they placed bets on NFL games.

Players can be banned for life for illegal gambling.

ChronoCross
08-13-2007, 01:26 AM
SUSPENSION CARRIES $28 MILLION PRICE TAG

If Falcons quarterback Mike Vick is suspended by the league prior to the start of the regular season, Vick will owe $28.76 million in bonus money that he already has received.

We did the math on July 21; the full story can be seen in our U.S. v. Vick file.

The calculation was based on bonus forfeiture language used by the Falcons in a similar contract the team was using at about the same time that Vick signed his extension that carries $37 million in total bonus money. The roster bonuses that were part of that total amount were converted to signing bonuses, and thus apparently are in play when the time comes to determine how much Vick owes.

The bigger question is whether Vick even has $28 million in liquid assets. Sure, he's made plenty of money. But he's spent plenty, too. And he has paid taxes in the highest possible bracket. He simply might not be able to write that check.

Bottom line? Even if Vick is acquitted on all charges, he could emerge from this mess with not much money left.

Atlanta Dan
08-13-2007, 05:31 PM
Vick better start going through the couch for spare change to pay back that bonus.

The two remaining co-defendants in the Michael Vick dogfighting case scheduled a plea agreement hearing today, an indication that they will plead guilty and testify against Vick.

Purnell Peace has a hearing set for Thursday at 9 a.m. and Quanis L. Phillips has a 9 a.m. Friday hearing, both before District Judge Henry E. Hudson in U.S. District Court in Richmond, Va.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/13/vick_0814.html

Never a good sign when you are named with three co-defendants in an indictment that references four cooperating witnesses and your three co-defendants then enter guilty pleas..

Atlanta Dan
08-13-2007, 07:54 PM
This may be reaching a resolution very quickly.

With two more co-defendants distancing themselves from Michael Vick, the embattled Falcons quarterback was considering on Monday whether to accept a plea agreement for his alleged role in a dogfighting operation.

Sources told ESPN's Kelly Naqi that Vick attorneys Larry Woodward and Billy Martin met with federal prosecutor Michael Gill and the investigators on Monday afternoon. The attorneys planned to speak with the quarterback in the evening to see what direction he wants to go in....

That comes on the heels of news that co-defendants Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips are scheduled to appear in federal court in Richmond at the end of the week and are expected to accept their own plea agreements. Peace's hearing is at 9 a.m. (ET) on Thursday, while Phillips will appear on Friday at the same time. Plea agreements would clear them to testify against Vick.

Collins R. Spencer III, a spokesman for Vick's defense team, said the lawyers were surprised by the plea deals.

"They didn't see it coming," Spencer said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2972161

I suppose Vick could enter a plea, take a one year suspension, serve whatever sentence he gets, and then see if any NFL team wants to take the PR hit and sign him for 2008.

Any NFL players who may have spent time with Vick at dog fights must be pretty nervous these days if Vick is going to cut a deal.

tony hipchest
08-13-2007, 08:21 PM
I suppose Vick could enter a plea, take a one year suspension, serve whatever sentence he gets, and then see if any NFL team wants to take the PR hit and sign him for 2008.

Any NFL players who may have spent time with Vick at dog fights must be pretty nervous these days if Vick is going to cut a deal.it is alleged that vick will be suspended for lying to goodell and breaking the personal conduct policy. if he pleads to a deal, isnt it possible that he will have to serve yet another suspension for the actual conviction, pushing his potential return beyond 2008?

do you find it suprising that all his money couldn buy his cohorts silence? im thinking they are either too afraid of jail, or (like what has been previously expressed), once he pays back that huge signing bonus, the cash cow is tapped out.

i guess nobody really wants to go down with the ship (no matter how much gold is on the ship). i would think if any of the CW's and co defendants were to serve any time they would be offered some protection for being a snitch?

i do find delight in vicks high priced attny's being blindsided (although im sure even they saw the possibility of it coming)

Atlanta Dan
08-13-2007, 08:35 PM
do you find it suprising that all his money couldn buy his cohorts silence? im thinking they are either too afraid of jail, or (like what has been previously expressed), once he pays back that huge signing bonus, the cash cow is tapped out.

i guess nobody really wants to go down with the ship (no matter how much gold is on the ship). i would think if any of the CW's and co defendants were to serve any time they would be offered some protection for being a snitch?

Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling had wealth that left Vick in the dust but when the boat started to sink at Enron they could not buy the silence of the other culpable employees - nobody outguns the Feds. About the only two surefire ways to keep witnesses from flipping is to kill them or, in the case of Scooter Libby, be the ultimate Fed and commute the sentence.

As for protection, prisons are full of defendants who cut deals and cooperated. The only protection usually granted is that they keep the cooperating defendants and those they testified against in separate prisons; the other prisoners know you have to take care of yourself when it comes to cutting a plea deal.

ChronoCross
08-13-2007, 08:41 PM
Vicks NFL career is over.. 99.5% sure of it..

tony hipchest
08-13-2007, 08:47 PM
Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling had wealth that left Vick in the dust but when the boat started to sink at Enron they could not buy the silence of the other culpable employees - nobody outguns the Feds. About the only two surefire ways to keep witnesses from flipping is to kill them or, in the case of Scooter Libby, be the ultimate Fed and commute the sentence.

As for protection, prisons are full of defendants who cut deals and cooperated. The only protection usually granted is that they keep the cooperating defendants and those they testified against in separate prisons; the other prisoners know you have to take care of yourself when it comes to cutting a plea deal.great points and examples. it makes sense that theres no pride in serving a 5 year bid as opposed to 1, to protect somebody that will only distance themselves from you.

it also makes sense that if vick werent the big fish he would flip quicker than any of them. im sure they know this too.

what about him serving non consecutive suspensions? if he pleas out to illegal gambling with known thugs and gangsters, wouldnt the league possible seek longer than a 1 year ban or do you think anything beyond a year would be considered excessive?

Atlanta Dan
08-13-2007, 08:58 PM
great points and examples. it makes sense that theres no pride in serving a 5 year bid as opposed to 1, to protect somebody that will only distance themselves from you.

it also makes sense that if vick werent the big fish he would flip quicker than any of them. im sure they know this too.

what about him serving non consecutive suspensions? if he pleas out to illegal gambling with known thugs and gangsters, wouldnt the league possible seek longer than a 1 year ban or do you think anything beyond a year would be considered excessive?

Way back in the day Paul Hornung and Alex Karras got a year for betting on NFL games - betting on your own sport would seem to be about as bad as it gets when it comes to gambling.

I think he gets a year's suspension and, assuming his sentence gets him out by next summer (federal sentencings require a presentence report and usually lag the plea by about 3 months) he can try to catch on somewhere else. I frankly cannot see anyone other than the Raiders being so impervious to public opinion that they would sign up Vick if he pleads and the Raiders have sunk their $$$ into Russell. His NFL career may be over.

Atlanta Dan
08-13-2007, 08:59 PM
Vicks NFL career is over.. 99.5% sure of it..

:iagree:

tony hipchest
08-13-2007, 09:11 PM
I frankly cannot see anyone other than the Raiders being so impervious to public opinion that they would sign up Vick if he pleads and the Raiders have sunk their $$$ into Russell. His NFL career may be over.

this is the best case scenario for goodell. he just has to do the normal job he would be expected to do without laying the heavy and and the other 31 teams would take care of the rest.

if vick had actually lived up to the "next MJ" hype and delivered a sb win or 2 im sure several teams (possibly the falcons) would give him "another shot".

other than that, he really is just another glorified kordell stewart with tons of baggage. (do i smell a purple jersey with a crow on it, in his future?)

ChronoCross
08-13-2007, 10:36 PM
CLEARLY, VICK DID IT

As the sports world continues to get its arms around Monday's surprising news that Mike Vick's two remaining co-defendants are going to plead guilty to charges that they conspired with Vick to maintain an interstate gambling enterprise and an interstate dog-fighting operation, we think it's time to apply some common sense to the current state of affairs.

Throw the presumption of innocence out the window, folks. Clearly, Vick is factually guilty of the charges filed against him. Why else would each of the three men with whom he allegedly conspired admit that there was a conspiracy?

Each of the three men will go to jail. The only benefit that they'll derive from their decision to 'fess up is that they'll avoid being charged with the underlying crimes, which in the case of the interstate gambling enterprise carries a far stiffer maximum penalty.

And now Vick must ask himself whether he wants to take advantage of that same benefit. He can plead guilty to conspiracy charges and hope for the best when it comes to sentencing, or he can roll the dice and hope that his lawyer can discredit seven witnesses (and counting), each of whom will presumably testify that Vick was involved in the gambling and dog-fighting venture.

The fact that Vick is reportedly contemplating his options reinforces our belief that Vick is by no means innocent. Innocent men don't ponder pleading guilty; they proclaim their innocence in clear, certain terms and they prepare to prove their innocence in court.

Per ESPN, if Vick doesn't plead guilty to the conspiracy charges by Friday, a new indictment with at least two new dog fighting charges will be filed. We believe that the new indictment will likely also include a count based on Title 18, Section 1952 of the U.S. Code, which is titled "Interstate or foreign trade or travel in aid of racketeering enterprises," and which carries a maximum penalty is 20 years behind bars.

It is a tremendous dilemma for Vick. The man who has spent his life escaping with ease from difficult situations is now backed into a corner. One option means certain imprisonment for a relatively short period of time. The other option means a strong likelihood, but not a certainty, of an even longer period behind bars.

Vick might be inclined not to plead guilty because to do so would likely end his NFL career permanently, but even an acquittal at this point won't be enough to get Vick back inside a shirt with the shield at the bottom of the collar. We've said all along that Vick will have a chance at returning to the NFL only if there is Duke lacrosse-style evidence that fully exonerates him. With Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips pleading guilty as charged, that's simply not going to happen.

So we think Vick's best bet is to plead guilty, bid farewell to the NFL, do his time quickly and quietly, and then return to the CFL or the UFL or whatever other FL is out there when he gets out.

And, if all else fails, there's always pro wrestling.

Godfather
08-14-2007, 07:45 AM
I frankly cannot see anyone other than the Raiders being so impervious to public opinion that they would sign up Vick if he pleads and the Raiders have sunk their $$$ into Russell. His NFL career may be over.

Russell hasn't signed yet. Al Davis is lowballing him.

If the Bungholes didn't already have Palmer, we'd know for sure what Ookie Mexico's future was.

ChronoCross
08-14-2007, 12:58 PM
Falcons | Vick considering plea agreement
Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:36:42 -0700

ESPN.com reports Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick is considering whether to accept a plea agreement for his alleged role in a dog fighting operation. According to sources, Vick attorneys Larry Woodward and Billy Martin met with federal prosecutor Michael Gill and the investigators on Monday, Aug. 13. The attorneys planned to speak with Vick to see what direction he wants to go in. According to a source close to the investigation, Vick has until Friday, Aug. 17, to make up his mind whether to accept a plea agreement. Otherwise a superseding indictment will be filed and Vick will face at least two more federal dog fighting charges.

stillhead
08-14-2007, 01:09 PM
yeah, but he didn't know the dog fighting was going on. :sofunny: