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Jman
07-22-2007, 08:21 PM
Not sure who on the forum watches NFL network, but...In this past week, Rod Woodson did a review of the AFC North, placing the Steelers 3rd in the division. He commented on the style of offense the Steelers are going to: Rod described it as Peyton-manning-like with Ben making all the calls, and checking at the line and such. He also made comments about the formations going to a pass-happy style and said the Steelers tried this with Tommy Maddox and it didn't work...

I guess I am a bit confused; I thought Bruce Arians was going to RUN out a 4 receiver set, not just pass out of it. I didn't know Ben was going with a Peyton-like check system.

Anyone else got info on this?

:coffee:

The Duke
07-22-2007, 08:31 PM
Not sure who on the forum watches NFL network, but...In this past week, Rod Woodson did a review of the AFC North, placing the Steelers 3rd in the division. He commented on the style of offense the Steelers are going to: Rod described it as Peyton-manning-like with Ben making all the calls, and checking at the line and such. He also made comments about the formations going to a pass-happy style and said the Steelers tried this with Tommy Maddox and it didn't work...

I guess I am a bit confused; I thought Bruce Arians was going to RUN out a 4 receiver set, not just pass out of it. I didn't know Ben was going with a Peyton-like check system.

Anyone else got info on this?

:coffee:

I didn't watch it, but it seems like he doesn't have all his facts together. As you said, Arians is going to run 4 receiver sets to open up the offense and make holes for willie, not for Ben to be all Peyton Manning like and throw it all the time, he is going to call the audibles and formations on the offensive line, but this is not going to be like the colts offense, is more like smashmouth football with 4 receiver sets :smile:

Crushzilla
07-22-2007, 08:32 PM
Yes. Rod didn't get enough.

The idea is to, yes, create better passing situations. It also opens up the running game. Next time they run that Steelers/Browns playoff game on NFL Network, watch the Browns offense. Arians was doing some of that stuff with them.

Jman
07-22-2007, 08:43 PM
Yea they have had it on lately on NFL Classics... Good times there..

I like Rod on Total Access. He usually makes sense when most of those guys don't. Hopefully, Ben will have more control over things and running the show. I did agree with Rod on the comment about Ben being more effective when he was throwing 15-20 times a game.

Thanks guys.

The Duke
07-22-2007, 08:46 PM
Yes. Rod didn't get enough.

The idea is to, yes, create better passing situations. It also opens up the running game. Next time they run that Steelers/Browns playoff game on NFL Network, watch the Browns offense. Arians was doing some of that stuff with them.

Except they couldn't get their running game going, but willie parker is no william green, or whoever the browns used at that time. Willie will actually benefit from the 4 receiver sets, as will the whole team, so we will not be 3rd in afc north.

Atlanta Dan
07-22-2007, 08:50 PM
Woodson came up with the proper sound bite if you believe the Steelers are going to have problems, which is that this will be a repeat of 2003. Maybe, but I doubt it.

Leaving aside that the Steelers no longer have the move the chains RB and OL to play smashmouth (Parker's talents go in other directions), the differences to me are : Ben is not Maddox; Parker is not Zeroue; and the OL, while in transition, presumably will not be so messed up it will be reduced to flipping Faneca between guard and tackle while other OL shuttle in and out between plays, which I recall happened in a 2003 game at Denver. I do not think the plan is to put it up 30 times a game

On a related point, i assume Rod picked the Ravens to win the division. With Ogden, Lewis & McNair a year older and their 2006 impact LB playing in New England, the preseason love for the Ravens after they blew up in the playoffs escapes me. Teams do not repeat as division champs in the AFC North.

83-Steelers-43
07-22-2007, 09:01 PM
Rod Woodson hates the Steelers!!!! It's obvious!!! He's a hater!!!!!! Damn media!!!!

Edman
07-22-2007, 09:07 PM
It's a complete head-scratcher that the Ravens were able to handle the Steelers with so much ease last year, yet could barely handle the Bengals, who we had little trouble with (outside of killing ourselves with turnovers). But what happened happened.

I personally have no problem wth Arians' offense. The Arians offense took a Cleveland squad with mediocre talent to it's only playoff appearance. And almost beat us with it.

If this new offense makes the Steelers O less predictable, more balanced, and utilizes Willie's talent, I'm all for it.

Atlanta Dan
07-22-2007, 09:13 PM
Rod Woodson hates the Steelers!!!! It's obvious!!! He's a hater!!!!!! Damn media!!!!

If it appears I was taking shots at Rod, I apologize - that was not my intent.

Rod's points with the flaws in the new offense and choice to win the AFC North (assuming he picked the Ravens) reflect the conventional wisdom, with which I happen to disagree.

Expectations are as low as they have been since 2004, when we looked forward to the Maddox/Staley era - I am delighted the Steelers are so lowly regarded by the talking heads.

CantStop85
07-22-2007, 09:35 PM
It's a complete head-scratcher that the Ravens were able to handle the Steelers with so much ease last year, yet could barely handle the Bengals, who we had little trouble with (outside of killing ourselves with turnovers).

:huh: Little trouble? You guys were 1-1 against the Bengals with the one win coming in overtime. I don't think the Bengals were exactly a cakewalk for you guys last year.

The Ravens had trouble with teams that could stretch the field against them last year (i.e. the Colts, the Bengals). When these teams could effectively move the ball through the air, they could bring the Ravens into a shoot out in which their offense just couldn't keep up.

Preacher
07-22-2007, 10:18 PM
When they asked about Defense, Woodson said that our corners MUST step up. Thus, he sees us as being week on the Corners. Now think about the Bengal's past happy offense. If that is Wooodson's assessment., it may be that he thinks we cannot keep up with them in a shootout. Now I disagree, but I can understand it. With the way the Ravens just DEMOLISHED the Steelers last year, the Steelers have to PROVE that they can beat them this year.

Thus, I can understand Rod's assessment.

I still disagree. But I can understand.

SteelShooter
07-22-2007, 10:53 PM
I didn't watch it, but it seems like he doesn't have all his facts together. As you said, Arians is going to run 4 receiver sets to open up the offense and make holes for willie, not for Ben to be all Peyton Manning like and throw it all the time, he is going to call the audibles and formations on the offensive line, but this is not going to be like the colts offense, is more like smashmouth football with 4 receiver sets :smile:


That's what I got out of it.......cool!

ChronoCross
07-22-2007, 11:07 PM
I like woods comment on why he went to the ravens - He said he wanted to go to a team he thought would win a SB soon. We all know why he left.

Edman
07-22-2007, 11:08 PM
:huh: Little trouble? You guys were 1-1 against the Bengals with the one win coming in overtime. I don't think the Bengals were exactly a cakewalk for you guys last year.

The Ravens had trouble with teams that could stretch the field against them last year (i.e. the Colts, the Bengals). When these teams could effectively move the ball through the air, they could bring the Ravens into a shoot out in which their offense just couldn't keep up.

Okay, so the Bengals weren't exactly a cakewalk for the Steelers last year.

We handed the first game to you on a silver platter thanks to Ben and Cokehead. Then we nearly handed you the second game thanks to FWP's Goal Line Fumble that would've been the nail in the coffin. Instead we had to sit through your kicker choking again, and...we know the rest...

Anyways, the Ravens owned us, we split, last year is over. Time to look towards more fierce AFC North competition this year.

Preacher
07-22-2007, 11:46 PM
I like woods comment on why he went to the ravens - He said he wanted to go to a team he thought would win a SB soon. We all know why he left.

Yep...

He didn't want to move to Safety as he was being asked to do...

And I am very thankful for Woodson for not drudging that up.

Funny thing... The other day Rod was asked the question, if you could come come back and play for any team... what jersey would you put on? He didn't hesitate, "There is just something special about putting on the Black and Gold.

Galax Steeler
07-23-2007, 03:51 AM
I think our new offense and deffense will work great this year.

Steel Pit
07-23-2007, 04:08 AM
I didn't watch it, but it seems like he doesn't have all his facts together. As you said, Arians is going to run 4 receiver sets to open up the offense and make holes for willie, not for Ben to be all Peyton Manning like and throw it all the time, he is going to call the audibles and formations on the offensive line, but this is not going to be like the colts offense, is more like smashmouth football with 4 receiver sets :smile:

I think that Rod missed a "key" word. The Steelers are going to run a 4 "ELIGIBLE" receiver set. These won't be WIDE RECEIVERS. The way I understand it, the Steelers are going to use 3 TIGHT ENDS with one WR in their 4 receiver set.

With 3 tight ends on the field who are capable of great run blocking and whom also possess the ability to get open and catch the ball, the possibilities are endless. I'm sure that Ben's checks at the line of scrimmage will be nothing more than calling a run or pass based upon the personnel and the look of the defensive formation.

These won't be Peyton Manning like adjustments.

DACEB
07-23-2007, 06:43 AM
I didn't watch it, but it seems like he doesn't have all his facts together. As you said, Arians is going to run 4 receiver sets to open up the offense and make holes for willie, not for Ben to be all Peyton Manning like and throw it all the time, he is going to call the audibles and formations on the offensive line, but this is not going to be like the colts offense, is more like smashmouth football with 4 receiver sets :smile:

Absolutely Duke, Let's not forget that the usually pass happy offense of the Colts last season was not what got them through the playoffs and a superbowl win. The Colts ran the ball much more all last season and the running game is what got them their superbowl title not Peytons arm.

If we can successfully run the ball out of 4-receiver sets (whatever combination of 4-rec.) then playaction passing will be huge. It may not exactly be smashmouth football as we are used to but I still expect us to run the ball more often than throwing it.

83-Steelers-43
07-23-2007, 08:04 AM
If it appears I was taking shots at Rod, I apologize - that was not my intent.

Not at all. I was just getting it out of the way with now.

Jman
07-23-2007, 08:10 AM
Sorry to have caused quite a ruckus.

Someone had mentioned that Parker isn't the Bus. Excellent comment. Parker isn't the Bus-Not to say he is LT, but he has some toughness and some elusiveness, and definitely some speed. The man can run. With Parker not being the Bus, I do believe they needed to switch it from smashmouth football, to a different game because of Willie's style. Do they need to cut down on the running? I don't think so, but go to a different style.

Indy_Steelers
07-23-2007, 08:30 AM
It did work with Maddox. The coaching staff tryed to make Tommy a different QB than he was. In the playoff game agianst the Browns we went to a pass happy offense and came back from three possessions down in the 4th quarter to win. Tommy just was not a good fit in the Steelers style of offense.

tony hipchest
07-23-2007, 08:50 AM
i think arians remembers the colts marshall faulk leading the league in yards from scrimmage with 1000+ rushing and 1000+ receiving and then edgerrin james leading the league in rushing 2 years in a row right out of college. if that was from a "4 wr set" then bring it on. by the way, can anyone tell me any of the other 4 colts wr's during that period other than harrison?

like it was so accurately pointed out, we are not experimenting with a maddox or zeoroue. and as dan said, that game vs. denver in 2003 i think we used 8 different combinations with our linemen.

Jman
07-23-2007, 10:06 AM
by the way, can anyone tell me any of the other 4 colts wr's during that period other than harrison?

WRs from the 1997 season:

Bailey, Aaron
Dawkins, Sean
Doering, Chris
Harrison, Marvin
Jacquet, Nate
McGuire, Kaipo
Stablein, Brian

The Duke
07-23-2007, 11:00 AM
I think that Rod missed a "key" word. The Steelers are going to run a 4 "ELIGIBLE" receiver set. These won't be WIDE RECEIVERS. The way I understand it, the Steelers are going to use 3 TIGHT ENDS with one WR in their 4 receiver set.

With 3 tight ends on the field who are capable of great run blocking and whom also possess the ability to get open and catch the ball, the possibilities are endless. I'm sure that Ben's checks at the line of scrimmage will be nothing more than calling a run or pass based upon the personnel and the look of the defensive formation.

These won't be Peyton Manning like adjustments.

True, you used the right word, eligible. The steelers have said they will be used more their tight ends this year, finally, and they will also be part of the 4 receiver sets, I don't think they will be all the time in the 4 receiver sets, but they will see more playing time, and hopefully more balls thrown to them, but the run will still come out of this and a lot, contrary to the maddox 2003 era Woodson is predicting for us.

Preacher
07-23-2007, 02:42 PM
What cracks me up is the fact that we have tried one time to go to the pass... and omg... because we had a bad season (OL, DB's anyone?), we need to keep playing football in the same predictable way that every team knows how to stop us... line up 8, 9 men in the box.


I am very happy that we are moving back to the pass. I just hope that we keep a balance, cause we need to be able to both run AND pass if we want any hope of winning playoffs or another SB.

Avoid LLoyd1975
07-23-2007, 03:21 PM
Plain and simple...Different QB, different offensive supporting cast, different coaches. This is all a smokescreen to make us look bad. Rod must have gotten paid money to say that shit from his Raven followers.

rog
07-23-2007, 04:19 PM
I completly disagree with Woodson. I think our offense will look more like the Chargers than the Colts. With that being said look for Heath Miller to make his 1st probowl this year. For the new offense to be succesful he will have to be a huge contributor.

PalmerSteel
07-23-2007, 04:21 PM
Plain and simple...Different QB, different offensive supporting cast, different coaches. This is all a smokescreen to make us look bad. Rod must have gotten paid money to say that shit from his Raven followers.


he probably got paid to say that from steelers FO. we all know he is a true steeler. he also knows this may give the team just a little bit more of that chip on their shoulders coming in to camp. :helmet:

cornsteeler
07-23-2007, 07:24 PM
I completly disagree with Woodson. I think our offense will look more like the Chargers than the Colts. With that being said look for Heath Miller to make his 1st probowl this year. For the new offense to be succesful he will have to be a huge contributor.

I agree, a little dissapointed that miller was not involved more last yr, but the new 4 wr off talk doesn't reflect the decision to draft a te like spaeth, instead of a wr.

xXTheSteelKingsXx
07-23-2007, 10:55 PM
I agree, a little dissapointed that miller was not involved more last yr, but the new 4 wr off talk doesn't reflect the decision to draft a te like spaeth, instead of a wr.

Oh definitly I would rather see the ball getting thrown to Miller than Wilson or Washington. We really dont have a three wr just a couple of fours. I'm hoping Dallas Baker can improve and become a decent three reciever in a year or two.

Livinginthe past
07-24-2007, 06:20 AM
I think that Rod missed a "key" word. The Steelers are going to run a 4 "ELIGIBLE" receiver set. These won't be WIDE RECEIVERS. The way I understand it, the Steelers are going to use 3 TIGHT ENDS with one WR in their 4 receiver set.

With 3 tight ends on the field who are capable of great run blocking and whom also possess the ability to get open and catch the ball, the possibilities are endless. I'm sure that Ben's checks at the line of scrimmage will be nothing more than calling a run or pass based upon the personnel and the look of the defensive formation.

These won't be Peyton Manning like adjustments.

I don't know.

You really think that the Steelers will put 3 TE's on the field with one receiver and it will have the other team thinking they are going to pass the ball?

Will Holmes be sitting on the sideline while this happens?

While Miller, Spaeth and Tuman make like they are all going to catch the call and are not just blockers?

Tuman averages 8 catches a year - that tells me he doesn't have great ability in 'getting open and catching the ball'.

I can't imagine many scneario's where teams have '4 eligible receivers' - what about the running back?

That makes 5.

I think Ben will be doing more than you suggest - you are basically allowing him to only audible to a pre-planned run/pass play - every QB can do that.

I just wonder how long he will spend staring at his wrist before the play - is 45 seconds enough?

SteelerWatch
07-24-2007, 07:05 AM
Sorry to have caused quite a ruckus.

No apology needed. We enjoy a ruckus.

Someone had mentioned that Parker isn't the Bus. Excellent comment. Parker isn't the Bus-Not to say he is LT, but he has some toughness and some elusiveness, and definitely some speed. The man can run. With Parker not being the Bus, I do believe they needed to switch it from smashmouth football, to a different game because of Willie's style. Do they need to cut down on the running? I don't think so, but go to a different style.

Amen! In an article on my site just last week I pointed out that speed runners need a good passing game, because they're not big enough to pound the ball with eight guys in the box. With Bettis, we could line up in a power formation, with the receivers pulled in close and all our biggest guys on the field, and still get three to five yards even though it was obvious that we were running. With smaller guys like Parker, the idea has to be more of deception than steamrolling. Line up to pass, and then run. Set up in a run formation, then play-action it and hit a receiver deep. It makes the defense think instead of react, and that will always play to the favor of the offense. Cowher and Wisenhunt peppered the offense with these plays, and they almost always worked. But they always went back to what they were comfortable with.

As much as I love the opponent knowing exactly what we're going to do, and then still going out and being successful with it, I think some change is good as long as we don't get all pass-wacky. If we pass more than 50 percent of the time, we are more likely to make mistakes. But if we stick to the fundamentals and Tomlin doesn't lose sight of the fact that we had the number six rusher in the league last year behind a line that was no better than 15th, then we'll be okay.

Hobbster
07-24-2007, 08:50 AM
What kills me is assuming that passing more will be a bad thing and everyone bending over backwards trying to point out that it did not work with Tommy Maddox.
If I was going to use a pass more offense and had a choice between Ben and Tommy Maddox, who do you think I would be more comfortable with passing more?

Jman
07-24-2007, 09:02 AM
What kills me is assuming that passing more will be a bad thing and everyone bending over backwards trying to point out that it did not work with Tommy Maddox.

Ben has expressed his desire to go to more passing. However, Steelers shut down runs, and establish their own, traditionally. I don't have a problem with passing more, it's just that Ben has been most effective when throwing 15-20 some times a game. :tt02:

If I was going to use a pass more offense and had a choice between Ben and Tommy Maddox, who do you think I would be more comfortable with passing more?

I'd hope you say Ben.

Preacher
07-24-2007, 12:27 PM
I love the fact that we are moving to a more pass intensive game.

However, what I am worried about, is the effect it will have on our defense.

1. If our offense can't keep the ball, or score quickly, our defense spends more time on the field. With our DB's as they are, I get worried.

2. When we are a run first offense, I think the reason we stop the run is because we have spent so many hours practicing against it. I am a little worried that as we move to a balanced/passing offense, that we will lose our defensive identity of being able to shut down the run.

Jman
07-24-2007, 12:34 PM
I am a little worried that as we move to a balanced/passing offense, that we will lose our defensive identity of being able to shut down the run.

:iagree:

I would say Tomlin's cover 2 (or Tampa 2) might be a good option against pass-happy offenses. Even though it too has some holes.

SteelerWatch
07-24-2007, 12:47 PM
That's exactly why they can't lose sight of balance. 50/50 is acceptable. Passing any more than 50 percent of the time strips this team of its identity and will hurt it in the long run.

That said, I think Tomlin is too methodical to allow it to get out of hand. He doesn't seem to be a very over-the-top kind of guy, so I think we'll see a near perfect balance of running and throwing.

Preacher
07-24-2007, 12:52 PM
That's exactly why they can't lose sight of balance. 50/50 is acceptable. Passing any more than 50 percent of the time strips this team of its identity and will hurt it in the long run.

That said, I think Tomlin is too methodical to allow it to get out of hand. He doesn't seem to be a very over-the-top kind of guy, so I think we'll see a near perfect balance of running and throwing.

I don't mind passing over 50 percent of the time. What i don't want to happen is them PRACTICING that. I want them to keep the MINDSET of a run team... Then if they have to throw 80 percent of the time... so be it.

SteelDogFan
07-24-2007, 05:52 PM
Lets hope that he has a real grasp on what he is doing. The Steelers have been a tight formation team for a long time and it HAS BEEN WORKING!!!! So if you are going to make a change it better work or you won't be a Steelers coach for long.

Even with Bradshaw throwing touchdowns all over the place, folks new they had to stop the run and they would have a hard time running the ball. Those two items have been Steelers trademarks since I started watching ANY football. I have been a Steelers fan for over 30 years.

Our play-action is on par with the best in the league and with Big Ben healthy there will also be
threat of him getting yards on a scramble. Also didn't Willie have over 1400 yards last year. I understand that teams in our division have improved. But Wooooooooe slow your horses

I'm just going to re-state what I said before. He had better know what he's doing changing things because if it drags in mid-season for three to four games Steelers fans that live in Pittsburgh will have his head.
RUN the ball & stop the RUN

Elvis
07-24-2007, 05:59 PM
I have always believed in running first and gettin' passing yards to keep the defense honest. I still love that kind of football and I hope that the Steelers stick to that or we will be witnessing another Tommy Gunn season and we all know how that ended up.... Running the ball very well and keeping the defense honest some decent passing from Ben will win us alot of games, or it sure seemed like it did for Cowher didnt it?

Steel Pit
07-25-2007, 04:35 AM
I don't know.

You really think that the Steelers will put 3 TE's on the field with one receiver and it will have the other team thinking they are going to pass the ball?

Will Holmes be sitting on the sideline while this happens?

While Miller, Spaeth and Tuman make like they are all going to catch the call and are not just blockers?

Tuman averages 8 catches a year - that tells me he doesn't have great ability in 'getting open and catching the ball'.

I can't imagine many scneario's where teams have '4 eligible receivers' - what about the running back?

That makes 5.

I think Ben will be doing more than you suggest - you are basically allowing him to only audible to a pre-planned run/pass play - every QB can do that.

I just wonder how long he will spend staring at his wrist before the play - is 45 seconds enough?

1. You really think that the Steelers will put 3 TE's on the field with one receiver and it will have the other team thinking they are going to pass the ball?

It's not a matter of what I think. The Steelers have already announced that they will be using a 3 TE formation. I don't see why in the heck a defense wouldn't expect a pass from this formation. If they don't then it will make it all the more successful. Are you telling me that a QB wouldn't be very successful in throwing to one of 3 TE's, a WR or a RB? Whatever dude, I've seen the Patriots throw MANY passes out of multiple TE formations.

2. Will Holmes be sitting on the sideline while this happens?

Yes most definitely, Holmes will be on the sideline when this happens. As you may know, Hines Ward is a possession-type receiver and arguably "THE BEST" blocking WR in the NFL. His multi skills will fit perfectly into this formation. I'll also add a little information in answering this question. Believe it or not, Santonio Holmes spent quite a bit of time on the sideline last season while the offense was on the field.

3. While Miller, Spaeth and Tuman make like they are all going to catch the call and are not just blockers?

This question is not worthy of answering but nonetheless here you go. These players will act as they do when playing from any formation. What are you talking about? "Make like they are going to catch the call"? What the flip does that mean? Do the Patriots TE's act a certain way when Brady calls an audible that entails for them to do nothing more than block?

So you're saying that if the original play call is a pass, and the QB changes the call at the line of scrimmage to a run, then the TE's really don't need to hear the audible, they can just make like they heard the call? Well I didn't realize that a 3 TE formation was going to make the game of football soooooo much more difficult.


4.Tuman averages 8 catches a year - that tells me he doesn't have great ability in 'getting open and catching the ball'.

You're right, Tuman averages 8 catches a year, UNDER COWHER'S SYSTEM! Heath Miller, a potential elite TE, hasn't averaged much more than that. Maybe you're missing the point, The Steelers have a new Head Coach with FRESH/New ideas. Tuman has always been a back-up TE, how many catches would you expect him to have? He's a great blocker so maybe, just maybe his role will be to BLOCK. They may motion him to the fullback position where he can either lead block for Parker or pass block for Roethlisberger. As is the case with this particular formation, WHO KNOWS?

5. I can't imagine many scneario's where teams have '4 eligible receivers' - what about the running back?

That makes 5.

OK you smart ICEHOLE! I responded to Rod Woodson's comments in reference to the 4(FOUR) WR, REPEAT, 4 (FOUR) WR set that he indicated would be used by the Steelers this season. I'm saying that I believe that the Steelers will be using 3 TE's to replace 3 of the 4 WR"s in the 4 WR formation. Get it?

I understand that the Running back is an eligible receiver. Were you looking for a big LOL from the other forum members with your "That makes 5" comment?

Well here you go. LMAO @ Livinginthepast. ROTFLMAO, LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OH MY GOODNESS I'M LAUGHING MY A$$ OFF AT LIVINGINTHEPAST. YOU A FUNNY MAN.:flipoff:

6. I just wonder how long he will spend staring at his wrist before the play - is 45 seconds enough?

Is 45 seconds enough for Brady? If it's adequate for your boy TOM then it will be fine for Ben. Roethlisberger has spent many days this off-season assisting the OC in preparing the new offensive playbook. I think that he'll be quite familiar with all of the plays and the terminology. He won't need a wristband anymore than Brady does.

The first 3 words that you typed in replying to my post speaks volumes for you. You come in here acting as if we're all envious of you because you're a Patriots fan. You have 3 Super Bowl Championships, congrats. You know what Pal? WE HAVE 5! Be grateful to the Steelers and their fans because WE GAVE YOU 2 of your Super Bowl Championships.

Livinginthe past
07-25-2007, 07:57 AM
1. You really think that the Steelers will put 3 TE's on the field with one receiver and it will have the other team thinking they are going to pass the ball?

It's not a matter of what I think. The Steelers have already announced that they will be using a 3 TE formation. I don't see why in the heck a defense wouldn't expect a pass from this formation. If they don't then it will make it all the more successful. Are you telling me that a QB wouldn't be very successful in throwing to one of 3 TE's, a WR or a RB? Whatever dude, I've seen the Patriots throw MANY passes out of multiple TE formations.

What I was saying is that you are trying to sell the 3TE as a formation where the opposition have no idea whether its going to be a pass or a run.

You put 3 TE out there and the oppsition is going to double cover the WR, probably double up on Heath Miller and let Spaeth and Tuman get picked up by the nearest LBer/DB - because those guys simply aren't any type of deep threat and there's no proof that they are any good at catching the ball at NFL level.

Everyone else will be stopping the run.

I have seen the Patriots run many plays out of 'multiple TE' formations, too - multiple meaning 2, not 3.

Rarely do you see 3 TE's on the field at the same time - we've had Ben watson and Daniel Graham on he field alot together and Graham/Fauria on the field quite a bit too - who is the 3rd TE that sees so much action?

2. Will Holmes be sitting on the sideline while this happens?

Yes most definitely, Holmes will be on the sideline when this happens. As you may know, Hines Ward is a possession-type receiver and arguably "THE BEST" blocking WR in the NFL. His multi skills will fit perfectly into this formation. I'll also add a little information in answering this question. Believe it or not, Santonio Holmes spent quite a bit of time on the sideline last season while the offense was on the field.

So you've got 3 guys at TE who do alot of blocking (naturally) and 'the best blocking WR in the NFL' as the lone WR - and you think teams aren't just going to flood the short/intermediate routes and stuff the run?

You have no-one with the speed to go deep, so even if you do complete a pass its probably going to be for about 6 yards.

3. While Miller, Spaeth and Tuman make like they are all going to catch the call and are not just blockers?

This question is not worthy of answering but nonetheless here you go. These players will act as they do when playing from any formation. What are you talking about? "Make like they are going to catch the call"? What the flip does that mean? Do the Patriots TE's act a certain way when Brady calls an audible that entails for them to do nothing more than block?

So you're saying that if the original play call is a pass, and the QB changes the call at the line of scrimmage to a run, then the TE's really don't need to hear the audible, they can just make like they heard the call? Well I didn't realize that a 3 TE formation was going to make the game of football soooooo much more difficult.

Im saying that the opposition isn't too worried about the damage 2 of those 3 guys can do catching the ball.

4.Tuman averages 8 catches a year - that tells me he doesn't have great ability in 'getting open and catching the ball'.

You're right, Tuman averages 8 catches a year, UNDER COWHER'S SYSTEM! Heath Miller, a potential elite TE, hasn't averaged much more than that. Maybe you're missing the point, The Steelers have a new Head Coach with FRESH/New ideas. Tuman has always been a back-up TE, how many catches would you expect him to have? He's a great blocker so maybe, just maybe his role will be to BLOCK. They may motion him to the fullback position where he can either lead block for Parker or pass block for Roethlisberger. As is the case with this particular formation, WHO KNOWS?

Oh I see. Tuman could have been a big rival for Gonzalaez, only Cowher held him back?

Oh dear, thats pretty far-fetched.


5. I can't imagine many scneario's where teams have '4 eligible receivers' - what about the running back?

That makes 5.

OK you smart ICEHOLE! I responded to Rod Woodson's comments in reference to the 4(FOUR) WR, REPEAT, 4 (FOUR) WR set that he indicated would be used by the Steelers this season. I'm saying that I believe that the Steelers will be using 3 TE's to replace 3 of the 4 WR"s in the 4 WR formation. Get it?

I understand that the Running back is an eligible receiver. Were you looking for a big LOL from the other forum members with your "That makes 5" comment?

Well here you go. LMAO @ Livinginthepast. ROTFLMAO, LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OH MY GOODNESS I'M LAUGHING MY A$$ OFF AT LIVINGINTHEPAST. YOU A FUNNY MAN.:flipoff:

You sound a little agitated in this part - whats the big deal?

You made such a huge issue of the term being 'eligible receivers' rather than 'wide receiver' now you tell me that only WR's and TE's count?

Why?

Running backs are 'eligible receivers' last time I checked.

Leaning on capslock just makes you look unstable.

6. I just wonder how long he will spend staring at his wrist before the play - is 45 seconds enough?

Is 45 seconds enough for Brady? If it's adequate for your boy TOM then it will be fine for Ben. Roethlisberger has spent many days this off-season assisting the OC in preparing the new offensive playbook. I think that he'll be quite familiar with all of the plays and the terminology. He won't need a wristband anymore than Brady does.

The first 3 words that you typed in replying to my post speaks volumes for you. You come in here acting as if we're all envious of you because you're a Patriots fan. You have 3 Super Bowl Championships, congrats. You know what Pal? WE HAVE 5! Be grateful to the Steelers and their fans because WE GAVE YOU 2 of your Super Bowl Championships.

Not necessarily, just because Brady can do it - it doesnt necessarily follow that Ben can do it too.

I've had the impression that he does spend alot of time staring at the playcalling wristband in the huddle.

As for the rest of that exciteable stuff - well, i've never known the term 'I don't know' to be translated so effectively and with such......passion.

Maybe your next reply, if rising blood pressure doesn't prevent it, will contain EVEN MORE CAPITALS.

I look forward to it.

SteelerWatch
07-25-2007, 08:04 AM
Oh I see. Tuman could have been a big rival for Gonzalaez, only Cowher held him back?

Oh dear, thats pretty far-fetched.

Actually, when he was picked up by the Steelers, scouts had him not being drafted only because he was questionable as a blocker. He was actually very highly touted as a gifted receiver. Wow, turned out he can block, too.

The last time a tight end was regularly used in a Steeler offense as a receiver was a guy named Eric Green. So actually I agree with him. Cowher was probably holding Tuman back. It wasn't in his game plan to use a tight end as a receiver.

Oh, and Matt Spaeth is as much of a downfield threat as Miller. He won the Mackey Award, dude. He's a double threat tight end, just like Miller.

Livinginthe past
07-25-2007, 08:27 AM
Actually, when he was picked up by the Steelers, scouts had him not being drafted only because he was questionable as a blocker. He was actually very highly touted as a gifted receiver. Wow, turned out he can block, too.

The last time a tight end was regularly used in a Steeler offense as a receiver was a guy named Eric Green. So actually I agree with him. Cowher was probably holding Tuman back. It wasn't in his game plan to use a tight end as a receiver.

Oh, and Matt Spaeth is as much of a downfield threat as Miller. He won the Mackey Award, dude. He's a double threat tight end, just like Miller.

Turned out he can block, but isn't trusted to catch the ball.

So I guess that evens out, then?

8 catches a year, is the extent of his receiving abilties so far - anything else (and that includes college scouting reports from 1998) is conjecture - and quite a reach, I would say.

I look forward to seeing Spaeth this year, sounds like Steeler fans have him pegged pretty high - I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Jman
07-25-2007, 08:30 AM
Yea...Basically, my view is the same as a lot of others here: keep the run, just run differently.

steelpride12
07-25-2007, 11:40 AM
Rod Woodson hates the Steelers!!!! It's obvious!!! He's a hater!!!!!! Damn media!!!!

HA!! ya i kno seriously what the hell?

X-Terminator
07-25-2007, 12:16 PM
Unlike the Steelers fans who still think it's 1974, I have absolutely no problem with opening up the offense. I have long gotten tired of the predictability of the offense, especially when I watch other teams have such a balanced attack. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with throwing the ball more. Nothing whatsoever.

Jman
07-25-2007, 12:24 PM
Unlike the Steelers fans who still think it's 1974, I have absolutely no problem with opening up the offense. I have long gotten tired of the predictability of the offense, especially when I watch other teams have such a balanced attack. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with throwing the ball more. Nothing whatsoever.

Everyone has their opinion and I respect yours as well. Props on voicing your thoughts. The reason I like B&G on the run is because the line and the TEs. We have a decent crew in terms of establishing a run-based O. Tradition is a factor - Back in days when the Bowls were won, the run was there - but also in 2005, when the Bowl was won, the run was there.

Haha but yea, moving on is a good thing.

X-Terminator
07-25-2007, 01:12 PM
Everyone has their opinion and I respect yours as well. Props on voicing your thoughts. The reason I like B&G on the run is because the line and the TEs. We have a decent crew in terms of establishing a run-based O. Tradition is a factor - Back in days when the Bowls were won, the run was there - but also in 2005, when the Bowl was won, the run was there.

Haha but yea, moving on is a good thing.

Yes we do. But you still must be able to pass the ball effectively to move the chains. Everyone always brings up the Colts, but if you watch their games, the majority of Manning's pass attempts are between 8-15 yards - not exactly "Air Coryell." That type of pass attack is similar to what the Steelers want to do this season, though obviously they are going to run the ball more than the Colts do - around 35x per game (Indy averaged a little more than 27 rush attempts per game last season). I would compare it more to the Chargers' offense than the Colts', quite frankly.

Jman
07-25-2007, 01:16 PM
Yes we do. But you still must be able to pass the ball effectively to move the chains. Everyone always brings up the Colts, but if you watch their games, the majority of Manning's pass attempts are between 8-15 yards - not exactly "Air Coryell." That type of pass attack is similar to what the Steelers want to do this season....

THAT type of passing attack I am down with...See Willie sneak out the back field... Oh yes, that I am all for.

Livinginthe past
07-26-2007, 01:41 AM
Unlike the Steelers fans who still think it's 1974, I have absolutely no problem with opening up the offense. I have long gotten tired of the predictability of the offense, especially when I watch other teams have such a balanced attack. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with throwing the ball more. Nothing whatsoever.

Agreed.

If we had no salary cap then it may be possible to build a team like the 70's Steelers - where you had a powerful running game and a defense that comes at you from all angles...all game.

The game has evolved since then, teams have to be 'jacks of all trades' in order to keep other teams off balance - tactics and playcalling are often the difference between top teams - and top teams tend to meet in the postseason.

I think some Pittsburgh fans may have to be force-fed a 'balanced diet' in order for them to be convinced that it can work.

I don't think Pittsburgh (or any team for that matter) will ever again be so exceptional at running the ball that other good teams simply wont be able to stop them, despite seeing it coming.

Ya got a good QB, its time to use him.