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View Full Version : A thought on Max Starks


SteelerWatch
07-27-2007, 07:53 AM
I'd like to get some opinions on a thought I just had.

Max Starks, we all know, is a beast and can block with the best of them at times, but other times he looks like a statue. I'm too far from Latrobe (as in several states away, not counties) to be able to make it out for training camp any year, so I don't see what the guys go through. But does anyone think that maybe his training is a little bit off because, in 11-on-11 drills, he faces our 3-4 defense rather than the 4-3 which is far more common in the NFL? Does anyone think it's possible that he has trouble with defending against a true pass-rushing defensive end because he hasn't faced them in camp and practice?

I don't want to make excuses for the guy. I have regularly condemned him as liability numero uno for the Steelers and the single biggest resting place for the blame for last year's debacle. But given the amount of natural talent and size he has, it doesn't make sense that he should be so bad at game time.

Thoughts?

OneForTheToe
07-27-2007, 10:32 AM
I'd like to get some opinions on a thought I just had.

Max Starks, we all know, is a beast and can block with the best of them at times, but other times he looks like a statue. I'm too far from Latrobe (as in several states away, not counties) to be able to make it out for training camp any year, so I don't see what the guys go through.

Therein lies is the problem ..... people keep telling me he can do this and that and how big a strong he is but honestly ??.. I haven't seen it. It's not that he get beat that bothers me so much as how he gets beat. I see him get "bull rushed" by guys 50 pounds+ smaller than he is. Also, when is the last time I can remember him really dominating his guy on a running play? I can't remember it. Sorry, Max seems like a nice guy who has that word potential always associated with his name. However, at some point, the potential tag becomes more of a liability than an asset.


But does anyone think that maybe his training is a little bit off because, in 11-on-11 drills, he faces our 3-4 defense rather than the 4-3 which is far more common in the NFL? Does anyone think it's possible that he has trouble with defending against a true pass-rushing defensive end because he hasn't faced them in camp and practice?

I don't want to make excuses for the guy. I have regularly condemned him as liability numero uno for the Steelers and the single biggest resting place for the blame for last year's debacle. But given the amount of natural talent and size he has, it doesn't make sense that he should be so bad at game time.

Thoughts?

John Jackson become a pro bowler, and truely one of the best tackles in the game, practicing against the 3-4. Even Marvel Smith has made it to a pro bowl a few years ago. Maybe you are correct that it was a bit of a challenge in Max's first season, but this is his 4th year .... no more excuses Max.

ChronoCross
07-27-2007, 11:31 AM
Max has been in the league long enough and played against enough 4-3 during his last couple years that he should know how to practice for it and how to ask the coaches what to do when this defensive guy does this and that. There is no more excuses for him. He first needs to win his position in camp and then prove he can hold it during the season. Me personally do not feel the way others do about this big log who got blown up all year long last season. Simmons also in the same boat, looked promising from the start but then last season, he took a beating. Smaller guys then simmons set him straight on his butt and made it to the QB.

If we want to improve are running game it goes first by fixing the issues first on that line, and if it is by moving Mahan over simmons and colon over starks so be it. Its there own fault why they loose there position and there is no excuse why they should keep it if the coach sees different.

Who ever starts the season, still has to play to hold his job during the season. I do not see the new coaching staff allowing a lot of sacks if that particular lineman cannot stand his ground and or make adjustments.

We will have a good ideal soon who will be the starting right side of that line and no matter what any of us think it will be what we have to deal with and see if the new coaching staff improved there play.

The Duke
07-27-2007, 11:35 AM
Therein lies is the problem ..... people keep telling me he can do this and that and how big a strong he is but honestly ??.. I haven't seen it. It's not that he get beat that bothers me so much as how he gets beat. I see him get "bull rushed" by guys 50 pounds+ smaller than he is. Also, when is the last time I can remember him really dominating his guy on a running play? I can't remember it. Sorry, Max seems like a nice guy who has that word potential always associated with his name. However, at some point, the potential tag becomes more of a liability than an asset.



John Jackson become a pro bowler, and truely one of the best tackles in the game, practicing against the 3-4. Even Marvel Smith has made it to a pro bowl a few years ago. Maybe you are correct that it was a bit of a challenge in Max's first season, but this is his 4th year .... no more excuses Max.

Well said, there's no excuse for starks anymore, he's been in the league long enough and hasn't proved that his size actually helps him. He better do good in this training camp, if not he's most probably out next year, or probably this year.

steelpride12
07-27-2007, 12:51 PM
No i go to Training camp all the time and he plays against all diff. sorts of Defenses they def. mix it up alot, but i see where your coming from and yes sometimes he looks solid and then sometimes he does look like one big statue.

SteelerWatch
07-27-2007, 01:22 PM
I've seen him take on the biggest ends in the game. I've seen him man-handle Ray Lewis. And I've seen him look like a fool trying to block a safety who has a 120 pound disadvantage.

Trust me, I'm not making excuses for him. He's the biggest liability on the offense. I'd imagine that at least a third of Roethlisberger's interceptions and sacks could have been prevented if Starks could have picked up his assignment correctly.

Honestly, I see Colon replacing him this year. I agree that four years should be enough time to figure out how to block a 4-3 end. I just wanted to see what you guys thought about him.

Preacher
07-27-2007, 05:07 PM
The man befuddles me.

Like I said in another post... Starks needs Willie Colon's attitude.

Jman
07-27-2007, 05:09 PM
Sorry but I've seen Starks get manhandled. Severely.

I'd be very surprised if Colon isn't at RT this year.

Preacher
07-27-2007, 05:22 PM
I would LOVE to see Colon take a starting job. He actually did a very good job when he played last year. I think it was against the Ravens.

Max Starks just has that one style of blocking.... what is it called... I forget.......





oh yeah.. TURNSTYLE

CantStop85
07-27-2007, 05:52 PM
I was actually sort of surprised when the Steelers didn't address this early in the draft this year.

MasterOfPuppets
07-27-2007, 06:00 PM
I was actually sort of surprised when the Steelers didn't address this early in the draft this year.

that makes 2 of us....i guess they felt the oline class was to weak to waist a high pick on.:hunch:

Preacher
07-27-2007, 06:24 PM
that makes 2 of us....i guess they felt the oline class was to weak to waist a high pick on.:hunch:


You know... I was and I wasn't...

I really believe in Kemo and Willie Colon... Maybe our F.O. and Tomlin does too!

Elvis
07-28-2007, 09:11 AM
We are likely to lose Faneca after this season and Starks next. I just havent seen anything out of him to make me think that he has improved that much over the last 4 years. Yeh.. he is big... he is massive... but that doesnt mean didly!!!
I think it is time to let Colon have his opportunity and give it to him to lose..
:tt02:

Preacher
07-29-2007, 02:30 AM
We are likely to lose Faneca after this season and Starks next. I just havent seen anything out of him to make me think that he has improved that much over the last 4 years. Yeh.. he is big... he is massive... but that doesnt mean didly!!!
I think it is time to let Colon have his opportunity and give it to him to lose..
:tt02:

Yep. It seems that we have Kemo and Colon that will push to start this year. Then, it seems Simmons will regain form according to reports...

which means that we will be able to lose faneca, put Kemo in his spot... and just keep rolling!

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-29-2007, 04:31 AM
I keep thinking of the play last year during the Ravens game when Ben was creamed by Bart Scott, who came through the line untouched...
Max has lead feet and tends to stand up in his stance. If he locks on you he is a Bull, but teams have figured out that spedd pass rushers will get a chicken wing from him if they take his outside shoulder. Colon is much lighter on his feet, has the "trench attitude" you want to see on the line and played very strong in his last two games.

rog
07-29-2007, 10:35 AM
When Starks was coming out of college he was labeled with the lazy tag and was said to have a poor work ethic but because of his size he had potential. Potential can get you in the NFL but it won't keep you in the NFL. Unfortunatly 4 years in and it's still about his potential.

Preacher
07-29-2007, 10:52 AM
When Starks was coming out of college he was labeled with the lazy tag and was said to have a poor work ethic but because of his size he had potential. Potential can get you in the NFL but it won't keep you in the NFL. Unfortunatly 4 years in and it's still about his potential.

Too true. While I am happy to have had his services... he did help us get a ring... I am excited to see Willie now...

Stlrs4Life
07-29-2007, 10:58 AM
I was never sold on Max Starks either. I think this is his last chance.

SteelerWatch
07-29-2007, 11:04 AM
I keep thinking of the play last year during the Ravens game when Ben was creamed by Bart Scott, who came through the line untouched...
Max has lead feet and tends to stand up in his stance. If he locks on you he is a Bull, but teams have figured out that spedd pass rushers will get a chicken wing from him if they take his outside shoulder. Colon is much lighter on his feet, has the "trench attitude" you want to see on the line and played very strong in his last two games.

That hit has been burned so deep in my mind that it's often the first thought I have when I wake up. It was one of the most brutal hits I've seen Ben take, and it's shocking he wasn't injured pretty bad by it. A few more of those and Starks will do more than just cost the team a chance to score.

Preacher
07-29-2007, 07:05 PM
That hit has been burned so deep in my mind that it's often the first thought I have when I wake up. It was one of the most brutal hits I've seen Ben take, and it's shocking he wasn't injured pretty bad by it. A few more of those and Starks will do more than just cost the team a chance to score.

I remember the hit... but not the block...

Did Max miss the block.. or blow the scheme and not pick up his assignment? Or was that a blown assignment by the FB/RB?

I really don't remember.

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-30-2007, 05:15 AM
I remember the hit... but not the block...

Did Max miss the block.. or blow the scheme and not pick up his assignment? Or was that a blown assignment by the FB/RB?

I really don't remember.

Harting called the assignment....but when he lowered his head...Scott shifted. Every O-lineman ultimately has the responsibility to compensate for last second shifts and communicate those changes to the rest of the line ...but Starks came off the snap oblivious and literally blocked NOONE and wasnt fast enough to compensate when he DID see what was going on.. Scott (now totally unblocked) got a free run and hit Ben at top speed and knocked him out of the game for two plays

Preacher
07-30-2007, 05:19 AM
Thanks for the detail! :banging::banging:

Actually, I had it on FF on Tivo because the entire game starting the 2nd half just looked too bad.

I like the idea of Ben calling the Blocking scheme...

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-30-2007, 05:30 AM
Thanks for the detail! :banging::banging:

Actually, I had it on FF on Tivo because the entire game starting the 2nd half just looked too bad.

I like the idea of Ben calling the Blocking scheme...

It does make sense...Its an old trick for LB's to shift when centers (who are often the ones calling assignments) bend their head down before the snap...I am wondering what they are going to do when the stadium is loud.....maybe Ben when do a good Manning impersonation and walk up and down the line flapping his arms like a chicken!!

Preacher
07-30-2007, 05:36 AM
It does make sense...Its an old trick for LB's to shift when centers (who are often the ones calling assignments) bend their head down before the snap...I am wondering what they are going to do when the stadium is loud.....maybe Ben when do a good Manning impersonation and walk up and down the line flapping his arms like a chicken!!


Something tells me the assignment will already be made...and that a lot of that may be for show... to throw off the defense...

DO you ever get the idea that these coaches may make the game LOOK more complicated then it is... so that the other team starts guessing about things that aren't there?

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-30-2007, 05:40 AM
Something tells me the assignment will already be made...and that a lot of that may be for show... to throw off the defense...

DO you ever get the idea that these coaches may make the game LOOK more complicated then it is... so that the other team starts guessing about things that aren't there?

I definately get that impression with Manning....He rants for 15 seconds with some obscure arm motions and you see Harrison take ONE step to the right....uh...yeah...that out to fix it.:dang:

Preacher
07-30-2007, 05:41 AM
I definately get that impression with Manning....He rants for 15 seconds with some obscure arm motions and you see Harrison take ONE step to the right....uh...yeah...that out to fix it.:dang:

:sofunny::sofunny: Maybe he is making dinner reservations? :hunch:

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-30-2007, 06:28 AM
:sofunny::sofunny: Maybe he is making dinner reservations? :hunch:

hmmmmm...that would explain why Harrison always takes a step away from him.

SteelerWatch
07-30-2007, 08:45 AM
Ben is a very intelligent player and I think the added responsibility is already helping him. If you read what he has said recently, and if you watch his actions (i.e., running the 110's with his linemen on Monday even though he was exempt, just to show that he was there with them and that they functioned as a unit at all times) and his work ethic (he may like to party, but he *did* complete enough offseason workouts to be exempted from running), he's really enjoying being a leader. If the line steps up and defends him well in the first game or two, he's going to regain the confidence he didn't have last year. Once that happens...look out.

Picture Ben throwing deep to Willie Reid. It's a pretty thought.

Jman
07-30-2007, 10:06 AM
I would LOVE to see Colon take a starting job. He actually did a very good job when he played last year. I think it was against the Ravens.

Max Starks just has that one style of blocking.... what is it called... I forget.......





oh yeah.. TURNSTYLE


If I was DE, I'd like playing against him. Haha.

Preacher
07-30-2007, 06:47 PM
hmmmmm...that would explain why Harrison always takes a step away from him.

Not wanting to get stuck with the bill?