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CantStop85
08-05-2007, 08:08 PM
Career has run its course
Dillon is tackling next phase of his life
http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2007/08/04/1186269417_1414/300h.jpg
COREY DILLON 14th on NFL rushing list

By Mike Reiss | August 5, 2007



Corey Dillon had left the window open, ever so slightly.

Six months ago, he said he was planning to retire, barring an unexpected itch to play come football season. There have been no itches.

"Now the window is closed, there is no doubt in my mind," Dillon said last week. "I haven't announced it publicly, but I will not play football again."

Dillon is leaving the game, in many ways, on his own terms. After 10 hard-charging seasons, he believes he still has something left in his tank.

"If I really wanted to, I think I could run for 800, 900 yards. I'd share carries, or take the load if needed," he said. "But for me, the risk is way greater than the reward. I don't feel as if there is anything else for me to do. I hit the 10-year plateau. When I came into the league in '97, I said that if I was to play 10 years, that's where I wanted to be, and I'd call it quits and do something else.

"I won't name names, but I know people who have played 10, 12, 15 years, and they can barely walk. To me, I never wanted to envision myself like that."

That is why Dillon, who lives in California and has become a regular on the golf course, resisted interest from at least two NFL teams. The Bills attempted to fly him in for a free agent visit, as did the Titans.

"That was just talk," Dillon said. "I was never getting on an airplane. I don't even like to fly. You think I was going to blow off my tee time and fly somewhere?

"The only way I would ponder getting on a flight is if the Patriots were in the Super Bowl, it was fourth and 1 on the goal line, and they needed me to pound it in. That's the only thing that would get me to put the pads on."

Might he reconsider if the Patriots needed him before that point, perhaps if Laurence Maroney sustained an injury?

"As far as I'm concerned, that game in Indy [in the AFC Championship] was the last game I played. Period," Dillon responded. "But I'll tell you what, I would have loved to have played with Randy Moss. That would have been pretty nice. But it was a year too late."


Read The Rest of the Article (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/08/05/career_has_run_its_course/)

Should be a hall of fame candidate...only problem is he'll probably go in as a patriot. :dang:

The Duke
08-05-2007, 08:39 PM
I never likes the guy, but I still wish him good luck

SteelCityMan786
08-05-2007, 10:54 PM
Career has run its course
Dillon is tackling next phase of his life
http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2007/08/04/1186269417_1414/300h.jpg
COREY DILLON 14th on NFL rushing list

By Mike Reiss | August 5, 2007




Read The Rest of the Article (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/08/05/career_has_run_its_course/)

Should be a hall of fame candidate...only problem is he'll probably go in as a patriot. :dang:

I'm sure he'd rather go in as a Pat, not a bungal.

MACH1
08-05-2007, 11:13 PM
I'm sure he'd rather go in as a Pat, not a bungal.

I think thats a given.

Preacher
08-05-2007, 11:36 PM
I never had much to say about him.

However, I like the fact that he is thinking about the rest of his life as well.

Good for him.

God bless and have a good retirement.

touchdownward
08-06-2007, 10:27 AM
He can always go on the TNA Wrestling circuit with Pacman. :smile:

SteelCityMan786
08-06-2007, 11:59 AM
He can always go on the TNA Wrestling circuit with Pacman. :smile:

Dillion hasn't been arrested yet.

Livinginthe past
08-06-2007, 02:37 PM
Best of luck to Corey - he was one of the riskiest (if you believe the media) moves in Patriot history but the FO proved to everyone they knew their stuff.

He was nothing short of awesome in a Patriots Uni - he put everything on the line, just like he did in Cincy...only there he didn't get any thing like the the backing he deserved (in terms of talented teammates).

Im sure his ring will see him in the HOF - and so it should - the numbers he put up with a perennial struggler were amazing - and in his first year for the Patriots he set a team record for yards gained.

Good luck, Corey.

Black@Gold Forever32
08-06-2007, 02:51 PM
I think Corey Dillon has a shot for the Hall of Fame....He had some very good years on some very bad Bengals teams.......He deserved a ring and he was huge for the Pats in 2004 when they won their 3rd Super Bowl.....

As for the talk which team he goes in if he is inducted...He goes in as a Bengal no doubt....When I think of Corey Dillon....I think of him as a Bengal.......Yes he won his ring with the Pats but he spent most of his career with the Bengals.....

CantStop85
08-06-2007, 03:43 PM
I think Corey Dillon has a shot for the Hall of Fame....He had some very good years on some very bad Bengals teams.......He deserved a ring and he was huge for the Pats in 2004 when they won their 3rd Super Bowl.....

As for the talk which team he goes in if he is inducted...He goes in as a Bengal no doubt....When I think of Corey Dillon....I think of him as a Bengal.......Yes he won his ring with the Pats but he spent most of his career with the Bengals.....

I don't know, usually players go in with the team they were with the longest but this is a special situation...he left on a pretty sour note. I would be really surprised if he chose to go in as a bengal instead of a patriot.

It's unlucky that he just happened to enter the Bengals organization at their lowest point during the 90's and left right as things were turning around. There's no telling what kind of numbers he could have put up in his prime with the Bengals current o-line and players like Palmer, Chad, and TJ around him.

Preacher
08-06-2007, 05:03 PM
I think Corey Dillon has a shot for the Hall of Fame....He had some very good years on some very bad Bengals teams.......He deserved a ring and he was huge for the Pats in 2004 when they won their 3rd Super Bowl.....

As for the talk which team he goes in if he is inducted...He goes in as a Bengal no doubt....When I think of Corey Dillon....I think of him as a Bengal.......Yes he won his ring with the Pats but he spent most of his career with the Bengals.....

Don't forget... he left the Bengals with a few hard feelings.... so he may not go in as a Bengal...

However, there are a number of players that should be in, but aren't because of the teams they played on...

So it may cut either way.

steelpride12
08-06-2007, 05:03 PM
Best of luck to Dillion he was a great RB in my eyes.

revefsreleets
08-06-2007, 05:37 PM
I hate to rain on parades, but I don't think Dillon makes the hall. He has better backs in line ahead of him for one (Martin, Bettis, Barber). I'm not alone here. I was listening to Mike and Mike and they decided he was a long shot to make the hall. He was just a very good running back, not a great one.

CantStop85
08-06-2007, 05:57 PM
I hate to rain on parades, but I don't think Dillon makes the hall. He has better backs in line ahead of him for one (Martin, Bettis, Barber). I'm not alone here. I was listening to Mike and Mike and they decided he was a long shot to make the hall. He was just a very good running back, not a great one.

First of all, Corey Dillon should make the hall of fame before Tiki Barber. He has more career yards and a superbowl ring (something Tiki doesn't have). Not to mention Corey's 17th in career rushing TD's...Tiki's not even in the top 25.

He has more career yards and touchdowns than O.J. Simpson and O.J. made it in.

BettisFan
08-06-2007, 05:58 PM
wow, he was amazing i am surprised he did not go any where mabey as a 3rd down back..

revefsreleets
08-06-2007, 06:37 PM
First of all, Corey Dillon should make the hall of fame before Tiki Barber. He has more career yards and a superbowl ring (something Tiki doesn't have). Not to mention Corey's 17th in career rushing TD's...Tiki's not even in the top 25.

He has more career yards and touchdowns than O.J. Simpson and O.J. made it in.

Check out Tiki's receiving stats. Barber gets in before Dillon. The beautiful thing about this argument is that there is a definite outcome, and not rhetorical "what ifs?". Dillon probably isn't going. I understand why this is frustrating to the Bengals fans. You guys have what? One HOFer in Anthony Munoz?

silver & black
08-06-2007, 06:53 PM
Career has run its course
Dillon is tackling next phase of his life
http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2007/08/04/1186269417_1414/300h.jpg
COREY DILLON 14th on NFL rushing list

By Mike Reiss | August 5, 2007




Read The Rest of the Article (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/08/05/career_has_run_its_course/)

Should be a hall of fame candidate...only problem is he'll probably go in as a patriot. :dang:

If he gets in, he will go in as a football player. No player goes in as anything other than a player. All teams he played for will be represented.

BettisFan
08-06-2007, 07:12 PM
it doesnt matter the team

CantStop85
08-06-2007, 07:39 PM
Check out Tiki's receiving stats. Barber gets in before Dillon. The beautiful thing about this argument is that there is a definite outcome, and not rhetorical "what ifs?". Dillon probably isn't going. I understand why this is frustrating to the Bengals fans. You guys have what? One HOFer in Anthony Munoz?

I'm not plugging Dillon because he used to be a Bengal...I actually dislike the guy because of his attitude and the way he left Cincinnati. But I still respect him for what he's done on the field and think he should receive his dues.

If you wanna factor in Tiki's receiving stats, ok...here we go.
Tiki Barber- total yards: 15,632 total TD's: 67
Corey Dillon- total yards: 13,154 total TD's: 89

Tiki ends up with just over 2,000 more total yards. While Corey ends up with 22 more TD's. And the most important stat of all...Corey has one superbowl ring, Tiki has none.

I'm not saying Dillon will be inducted into the hall of fame, but he should. Of course, so should've Ken Anderson, so whatever.

BettisFan
08-06-2007, 08:07 PM
but its hard cause so many players are doing amazing things that no one would have ever thought possible, so i mean where do we draw the line on allowing ppl into canton?

revefsreleets
08-06-2007, 08:33 PM
I'm not plugging Dillon because he used to be a Bengal...I actually dislike the guy because of his attitude and the way he left Cincinnati. But I still respect him for what he's done on the field and think he should receive his dues.

If you wanna factor in Tiki's receiving stats, ok...here we go.
Tiki Barber- total yards: 15,632 total TD's: 67
Corey Dillon- total yards: 13,154 total TD's: 89

Tiki ends up with just over 2,000 more total yards. While Corey ends up with 22 more TD's. And the most important stat of all...Corey has one superbowl ring, Tiki has none.

I'm not saying Dillon will be inducted into the hall of fame, but he should. Of course, so should've Ken Anderson, so whatever.
And that's exactly why he won't get in. First off, he had an attitude. Secondly, he played for Cincy. Finally, his stats are fine, but this league is different than it used to be. Tiki was a more complete back and stayed with one team.

And, ultimately, like I said, this isn't even an argument, since Tiki will probably get in and Dillon probably won't. We just have to sit back and wait for it to happen (or not happen, as the case may be).

But I may give you Kenny Anderson. He suffers from "Bengal Hall of Famidis", a condition in which good players who played for one of the worst franchises in the NFL suffer from. If your team sucks, you suffer.

Livinginthe past
08-06-2007, 11:13 PM
Yup.

Because everyone knows having a bad attitude is a definite bar to getting into Canton.

Preacher
08-06-2007, 11:36 PM
Yup.

Because everyone knows having a bad attitude is a definite bar to getting into Canton.
No... but if everything else is even, or very close, it will be a deciding factor...

fansince'76
08-06-2007, 11:36 PM
He's got the numbers and longevity, so I think he'll probably get in. He won't go in on the first ballot he's eligible for, though.

Preacher
08-06-2007, 11:43 PM
He's got the numbers and longevity, so I think he'll probably get in. He won't go in on the first ballot he's eligible for, though.

I think it depends on who else is eligible as well. I can see him getting knocked down quite a few times before he gets in... if he does!

BettisFan
08-06-2007, 11:53 PM
i just wish that he never played for cincy

revefsreleets
08-07-2007, 04:15 PM
Yup.

Because everyone knows having a bad attitude is a definite bar to getting into Canton.

I can understand why the Bengals fans will let emotion cloud their judgment, but aren't you a Pats fan? There will be plenty of Patriots that make the Hall. It's just this one that won't.

It's not just one thing, it's a culmination of many factors that will keep him out. The fact that there are going to be some better backs in line if front of him is significant. There is also the fact that the longer it takes, the harder it gets.

Livinginthe past
08-07-2007, 04:19 PM
I can understand why the Bengals fans will let emotion cloud their judgment, but aren't you a Pats fan? There will be plenty of Patriots that make the Hall. It's just this one that won't.

It's not just one thing, it's a culmination of many factors that will keep him out. The fact that there are going to be some better backs in line if front of him is significant. There is also the fact that the longer it takes, the harder it gets.

Well thats a judgement thing.

I look at what Dillon achieved in Cincy on such a bad team as being very special - the sheer weight of TD's has to mean something.

Factor in the ring, the record setting year in his first with the Patriots and I think you have a compelling case.

If he does get turned down, then I don't think it will be his bitter finale with Cincy or his abrupt nature with reporters that will have done for him.

revefsreleets
08-07-2007, 04:26 PM
Well thats a judgement thing.

I look at what Dillon achieved in Cincy on such a bad team as being very special - the sheer weight of TD's has to mean something.

Factor in the ring, the record setting year in his first with the Patriots and I think you have a compelling case.

If he does get turned down, then I don't think it will be his bitter finale with Cincy or his abrupt nature with reporters that will have done for him.

Do you know who votes players into the Hall? Mostly sportswriters. That will figure in, and if it's close between him and Tiki at some point, Tiki gets in and Dillon doesn't. It all counts.

Livinginthe past
08-07-2007, 04:31 PM
Do you know who votes players into the Hall? Mostly sportswriters. That will figure in, and if it's close between him and Tiki at some point, Tiki gets in and Dillon doesn't. It all counts.

Sure.

I guess we have a difference of opinion on how important the gruff interview technique is and how many journalists are willing to make that a factor.

I do see your point though.

revefsreleets
08-07-2007, 04:34 PM
Hey, if the guy gets in, more power to him. I just don't think it's gonna happen.

CantStop85
08-07-2007, 04:34 PM
Do you know who votes players into the Hall? Mostly sportswriters. That will figure in, and if it's close between him and Tiki at some point, Tiki gets in and Dillon doesn't. It all counts.

So do you think the sportswriters will not take notice of the fact that Dillon has a ring and Tiki doesn't?

HometownGal
08-07-2007, 05:58 PM
All I will say is.....

see ya Pork Chop! :wave:

revefsreleets
08-09-2007, 05:38 PM
So do you think the sportswriters will not take notice of the fact that Dillon has a ring and Tiki doesn't?

I'll tell you exactly why I think Tiki will sneak in. He played in NY. He was pretty much loved by Giants fans (even while he fumbled a lot), and that's almost impossible. He had impressive numbers, but probably not what is now considered HOF numbers, but those receiving yards will loom large. And his biggest advantage? He IS a sportswriter. He writes for NFL.com, and he's probably going to be a pretty good sportscaster. It may not be right, but Barber is a likable guy and Dillon is the opposite. If Barber had a ring he'd be a shoe-in, and I think Dillon's ring will be lost in that whole "team thing" the Pats have.

tony hipchest
08-14-2007, 11:29 AM
I just don't think it's gonna happen.your 100% correct.

cantstop and litp's arguments for him rely only on the final statline and are missing one cricial element that is one of the most important in hall of fame voting:

corey dillon was NEVER one of the best at his position amongst his peers. he wasnt even top 5. he was always just an average-really good back. whether it be for the duration of their career or a string of single season performances there were probably 15 of his peers that were regarded as better:

emmitt smith
barry sanders
terrell davis
eddie george
jamal anderson
jerome bettis
curtis martin
ahman green
shaun alexander
ladainian tomlinson
jamal lewis
priest holmes
marshall faulk
rickey williams

(ok i only came up w/14 off the top of my head)

now im not saying all these guys are more hall of fame worthy than dillon but at some point of their career they were "the best" at something amongst their peers.

of course jerome and martin are top 5 in overall rushing yards and emmit and barry are already in the hall. take all others listed and im thinking all ranked in the top 5 in a statistical category such as yards or td's or carries, more times than dillon did.

that puts dillon in the hall of good, not hall of fame.

and i dont buy the "he played for a bad team" argument as an excuse to get him in. barry sanders and oj both played for bad teams but were regarded as the best of their times (even walter payton spent alot of his career on a bad team). they were statistical/ league leaders that backed it up though. really the only thing that dillon has is that he held the single game rushing record for a few years.

Livinginthe past
08-15-2007, 01:18 AM
What a list!

I'll give you some of those guys for sure - Sanders, Smith, Davis without a doubt!

Wtf? Eddie George? :toofunny:

Why is he ahead of Dillon? He never had a better year than Dillon's best year?
He averages a pedestrian 3.6 ypc over his career.

Average runner. Ok receiver. Never won anything outside a few pro-bowl appearances.

Jamal Anderson?

Boy that sounds like a reach.

I take it this RB with one fluke 1800 yard year (his next highest was 1055) is a better candidate?

You sure you aint still a little shaken up by that tornado?

Ahman Green gets in on the back of an 1800 yard season too, I take it?

Yet Dillons single game record is downplayed? I wonder why.

Priest Holmes?

No, again.

This a a guy who has had as many sub 1000 yard seasons as he has season where he was 1000+ (4 of each)

Ricky Williams.

No, for the same reason - 1 good year - mediocre career average. No ring.

Like I say, some of that list are genuine - LT, Faulk, Martin, Bettis....... but the ones I highlighted?

It would have been easier just to to back and edit your initial prediction of 15 players who have been better.

That post has more padding than Ted Washington.

Preacher
08-15-2007, 01:40 AM
What a list!

I'll give you some of those guys for sure - Sanders, Smith, Davis without a doubt!

Wtf? Eddie George? :toofunny:

Why is he ahead of Dillon? He never had a better year than Dillon's best year?
He averages a pedestrian 3.6 ypc over his career.

Average runner. Ok receiver. Never won anything outside a few pro-bowl appearances.

Jamal Anderson?

Boy that sounds like a reach.

I take it this RB with one fluke 1800 yard year (his next highest was 1055) is a better candidate?

You sure you aint still a little shaken up by that tornado?

Ahman Green gets in on the back of an 1800 yard season too, I take it?

Yet Dillons single game record is downplayed? I wonder why.

Priest Holmes?

No, again.

This a a guy who has had as many sub 1000 yard seasons as he has season where he was 1000+ (4 of each)

Ricky Williams.

No, for the same reason - 1 good year - mediocre career average. No ring.

Like I say, some of that list are genuine - LT, Faulk, Martin, Bettis....... but the ones I highlighted?

It would have been easier just to to back and edit your initial prediction of 15 players who have been better.

That post has more padding than Ted Washington.

I think you missed TH's point.

The point is that each of those 15 guys had a better year then Corey Dillon at some point, showing that he did not outclass everyone else, or come close to it. Even if you factor in certain other things...like throwing, big back verses little back, etc.etc.

Go to the other end of the list. Emmit Smith had very few players at his position that overshadowed him during a season. Same with Tiki Barber, Same with Bettis, Same with etc. etc. In the end, Dillon just wasn't that "special" back that your team looks for, and then sings to the sweet heavens that you get.

Sadly, I have a feeling the same will be true for Hines Ward, at least for a number of years.

tony hipchest
08-15-2007, 01:57 AM
What a list!

I'll give you some of those guys for sure - Sanders, Smith, Davis without a doubt!

Wtf? Eddie George? :toofunny:

Why is he ahead of Dillon? He never had a better year than Dillon's best year?
He averages a pedestrian 3.6 ypc over his career.

George won the NFL Rookie of the Year award in 1996, and was the Oilers/Titans' starting tailback until 2003, never missing a start due to injury. He made the Pro Bowl 4 times (1997-2000), and assisted the Titans to a championship appearance in Super Bowl XXXIV, where they lost to the St. Louis Rams 23-16. George gained 391 combined rushing and receiving yards in the Titans' 3 playoff games that year, and went on to rush for 95 yards, catch 2 passes for 35 yards, and score 2 touchdowns in the Super Bowl.
2000 Tennessee Titans 403 carries 1,509 yds 3.7 ypc 14 td

Average runner. Ok receiver. Never won anything outside a few pro-bowl appearances.

Jamal Anderson?

Boy that sounds like a reach.

I take it this RB with one fluke 1800 yard year (his next highest was 1055) is a better candidate?

You sure you aint still a little shaken up by that tornado?
read the WHOLE post:
now im not saying all these guys are more hall of fame worthy than dillon but at some point of their career they were "the best" at something amongst their peers.




Ahman Green gets in on the back of an 1800 yard season too, I take it?

Yet Dillons single game record is downplayed? I wonder why.

because seasons ranked in the top 5 are better than 1 single game

Priest Holmes?

has dillon ever set a record for td's in a season? how many times has dillon ranked in the top 5 for td's scored?

No, again.

This a a guy who has had as many sub 1000 yard seasons as he has season where he was 1000+ (4 of each)

are you ignoring yds and tds receiving?

Ricky Williams.

No, for the same reason - 1 good year - mediocre career average. No ring.

sounds like dillon minus the ring, and minus leading the league in rushing.

Like I say, some of that list are genuine - LT, Faulk, Martin, Bettis....... but the ones I highlighted?

It would have been easier just to to back and edit your initial prediction of 15 players who have been better.

That post has more padding than Ted Washington. you have done nothing to refute my point. when has dillon ever been considered one of the top backs in the league?

the 1st year with the patriots? lol.

you highlighted 5 of the 14 if corey dillons peers that i listed. are you suggesting being considered a top 10 player in ones era makes them hall of fame worthy?

sorry. dillon still doesnt make it in. patriot or not. ring or not. if it makes you feel better, p. holmes, e. george, j. lewis, a. green, r. williams wont make it in either.

but then again, i never said they would, now did i?

Livinginthe past
08-15-2007, 10:21 AM
I think you missed TH's point.

The point is that each of those 15 guys had a better year then Corey Dillon at some point, showing that he did not outclass everyone else, or come close to it. Even if you factor in certain other things...like throwing, big back verses little back, etc.etc.

Go to the other end of the list. Emmit Smith had very few players at his position that overshadowed him during a season. Same with Tiki Barber, Same with Bettis, Same with etc. etc. In the end, Dillon just wasn't that "special" back that your team looks for, and then sings to the sweet heavens that you get.

Sadly, I have a feeling the same will be true for Hines Ward, at least for a number of years.

Lets just pick one, then.

Jerome Bettis.

His best year was in 1997, when he ran for 1665 yards which is a healthy amount.

But it was still only good enough for 3rd best that year.

When was Bettis ever the best? Apart from most carries in a season.

Actually TH can take the same question.

When was Bettis ever the best in a single year?

tony hipchest
08-15-2007, 12:07 PM
Lets just pick one, then.

Jerome Bettis.

His best year was in 1997, when he ran for 1665 yards which is a healthy amount.

But it was still only good enough for 3rd best that year.

When was Bettis ever the best? Apart from most carries in a season.

Actually TH can take the same question.

When was Bettis ever the best in a single year?based on the unwritten guidelines the hall of fame uses to induct members the parameters for this discussion have already been set that one must be one of the best's when compared to a group of their peers.

of course as i have already mentionned jerome and martin are 4th and 5th in total rushing yards of all time and virtual 1st ballot locks for the hall of fame.

but to answer your specific question about how bettis compared to his peers:

in 1993 (the year jerome was offensive rookie of the year) he rushed for 1429 yds 4.9 ypc which was 2nd to only all time rushing leader emmitt smith (i believe- maybe it was sanders).

bettis's top 5's in different statistical categories:

rushes-
1993- 3rd
1997- 1st
2000- 3rd

rushing yards-
1993- 2nd
1996- 3rd
1997- 3rd

td's
2004- 4th(tied)

yards from scrimmage-
1993- 3rd
1996- 4th
1777- 4th

pro bowler- 93, 94, 96, 97, 01, 04

93- offensive rookie of the year, rams mvp, rams rookie of the year
96- come back player of the year
96,97, 00- steelers mvp
01- walter payton man of the year

so not only is jerome considered the best big back in the nfl, he was also right up there with his peers that included hall of famers such as emmitt smith, thurman thomas, and barry sanders.

dillon is a 4 time pro bowler. in 2001 he was 2nd in rushes. in 2004 he was 4th

in 2000 he was 5th in yards and in 2004 3rd

in 2004 he was tied for 5th in tds. 2001 and 2006 he was tied for 4th (so i basically give him a 5th and 2 6ths for those.)

his best career year in yards from scrimmage was 7th.

oh, and i forgot to list edgerrin james on my list of 14 of dillons peers. clearly better than dillon amongst the group of peers:

rushes-
1999- 1st
2000- 2nd
2005- 2nd
2006- 5th (tied)

rushing yards-
1999- 1st
2000- 1st
2004- 4th
2005- 5th

td's
1999- 2nd (tied)
2000- 5th
2005- 4th

yards from scrimmage-
1999- 2nd
2000- 1st
2004- 2nd
2005- 4th

so as we can see james was in the top 5 of these statistical categories 15 times in his career (often leading the pack). dillon barely cracked the top 5 only seven times in his career.

if you do this with the 15 i listed im sure you will find that dillon isnt even close to one of the best amongst his peers therefore he is definitely not hall of fame worthy.

sorry, but the same is probably gonna keep hines out of the hall unless he sticks around for 5-6 more solid years to climb up the career statistics chart.

tony hipchest
08-15-2007, 12:36 PM
out of curiosity i looked at the number of times dillons peers have cracked the top 5 of the single season rushing statistics listed above. with dillons 7, it becomes clear that he is more in a class of rickey williams, ahman green, jamal anderson, and jamal lewis. just as i suspected. at least 3 of those 4 were capable of leading the league in rushing yards atleast once.

emmitt smith- 27
barry sanders- 29
terrell davis- 12
eddie george- 12
jamal anderson- 4
jerome bettis- 10
curtis martin- 16
ahman green- 6
shaun alexander- 11
ladainian tomlinson- 18
jamal lewis- 4
priest holmes- 9
marshall faulk- 13
rickey williams- 6
edgerrin james- 15

lol. you were saying what about a tornado? seriously, how can you call dillon a leader or one of the bests amongst his peers?

CantStop85
08-15-2007, 01:50 PM
Well, Corey Dillon's jersey is already in the hall of fame for holding the single-game rushing record (278) until Jamal Lewis broke it (295).

As a rookie he broke Jim Brown's 40-year-old single-game rookie record by rushing for 246 yards against the Titans.

He's 14th on the career rushing list...of the 13 running backs ahead of him 10 are already in the HOF and the other 3 are asbolute locks

He holds the Bengals career rushing record. He also broke the Patriots' single season rushing record en route to winning a Super Bowl. He was arguably the best player on the best team in the NFL that year. And that was on the downside of his career.

Dillon didn't just play for a mediocre team in his prime...he played for the worst team in the NFL. Yet, he still managed to break the overall single-game rushing record as well as the rookie single-game rushing record and put up 1,100 yards + consistently each year. There's no telling how many times he would've led the league in rushing had he played for a halfway decent team.

I'm not saying Dillon's a sure-fire hall-of-famer, but he should definitely get a good look.

tony hipchest
08-15-2007, 06:59 PM
Well, Corey Dillon's jersey is already in the hall of fame for holding the single-game rushing record (278) until Jamal Lewis broke it (295).

As a rookie he broke Jim Brown's 40-year-old single-game rookie record by rushing for 246 yards against the Titans.

He's 14th on the career rushing list...of the 13 running backs ahead of him 10 are already in the HOF and the other 3 are asbolute locks

He holds the Bengals career rushing record. He also broke the Patriots' single season rushing record en route to winning a Super Bowl. He was arguably the best player on the best team in the NFL that year. And that was on the downside of his career.

Dillon didn't just play for a mediocre team in his prime...he played for the worst team in the NFL. Yet, he still managed to break the overall single-game rushing record as well as the rookie single-game rushing record and put up 1,100 yards + consistently each year. There's no telling how many times he would've led the league in rushing had he played for a halfway decent team.

I'm not saying Dillon's a sure-fire hall-of-famer, but he should definitely get a good look.heres the problems though.

1) hall of fame bids arent given out for single games. dillon broke jim browns rookie record for a single game but his season totals were 1100+ yds which were 9th best. he proved he could go for 200+ yds starting on a sucky team. why couldnt he do it more consistantly?

as for walters record he broke, i doubt jamal lewis or priest holmes are gonna get any extra consideration for the single game rushing record or season td record they hold/ once held.

hell willie parker would have the single game rushing record if they let willie play more than a couple of minutes in the 4th quarter against the browns last season.

2) bengals and pats career rushing record? lol. whats that mean? he broke ickey woods and antoine smiths career numbers? sorry, but i dont even know who held those illustrious rushing records. now if it were like jerome breaking francos record (which i dont think he did), or ward surpassing the likes of stallworth and swann, then i could understand. i dont even think the hall will give hines much consideration for surpassing 2 hall of famers. setting the bengals rushing record is like setting the panthers or texans career best rushing numbers.

3) consistantly rushing for 1100 yds/ year for a sucky team = about 69 yards/ game (not hall worthy). the "playing for a sucky team" excuse will not fly with the voters. the hall of fame wasnt intended to reward and pamper all the poor players who played on sucky teams. it is meant to reward the best of the best.

the bengals and the rams were the 2 sorriest football franchises in the 90's. that didnt stop jerome bettis or marshall faulk in being right at the top. the 3-13 colts drafted e. james. didnt stop him from being at the top. players like oj, walter and barry played on mostly sorry teams with no other noteworthy offensive weapons (other than a year or 3 here and there). that never held them back. why does dillon deserve special consideration? jamal anderson pretty much single handedly carried the sorry falcons to a superbowl. why couldnt dillon even get the bungles to the playoffs?

4) dillon is 14th in career rushing yards. sounds good now but where will he be in 5 years when he is elligible for the hall? fred taylor, e. james, s. alexander, l. tomlinson, j. lewis, l. johnson (all his peers) have a legitimate shot to pass him, if they just stay as healthy as he was for 10 years. that would put him 20th. hard for the hall to give too much consideration to the 20th best rusher who played 16 games per year, only had 4 pro bowls, and was top 3 in rushing just once in their career. just cause somebody rushes for more yards than gale sayers doesnt mean they deserve to be in the hall like him.

again, he was an above average back with a good, lengthy career. just not hall of fame material.

Livinginthe past
08-16-2007, 02:03 AM
Ok props to both you guys - some great points made.

Tony, one thing that jumped off the page was your statement in the last post:

consistantly rushing for 1100 yds/ year for a sucky team = about 69 yards/ game (not hall worthy). the "playing for a sucky team" excuse will not fly with the voters. the hall of fame wasnt intended to reward and pamper all the poor players who played on sucky teams. it is meant to reward the best of the best.

the bengals and the rams were the 2 sorriest football franchises in the 90's. that didnt stop jerome bettis or marshall faulk in being right at the top

Firstly, the rams were far from sucky in the 90's when Faulk played for them - in fact they were regularly dominant during that period.

Faulk's first year was 1999 and the Rams record was 13-3.
2000 = 10-6
2001 = 14-2
2002 = 7-9
2003 = 12-4
2004 = 8-8

Thats a combined record of 64-32 which is a dominating record.

Sure, you threw two awesome players forward as examples of players who thrive despite being on poor teams but look at all the guys on your list (Dillon's peers) who play for good to very good teams - is it a coincidence?

Edgerrin James for example.

1999 = 13-3 (1553)
2000 = 10-6 (1709)
2001 = 6-10 (662) (not counted in comparisons due to injury - 6 games started)
2002 = 10-6 (989)
2003 = 12-4 (1259)
2004 = 12-4 (1548)
2005 = 14-2 (1506)

Thats an overall record of 71-25 which is even more dominant than Faulks Rams.

Lets take a look at Emmitt Smith (i'll start from 1991 because he was sub 1000 yds in his rook year)

1991 = 11-5 (1563)
1992 = 13-3 (1713)
1993 = 12-4 (1486)
1994 = 12-4 (1484)
1995 = 12-4 (1773)
1996 = 10-6 (1204)
1997 = 6-10 (1074) *
1998 = 10-6 (1332)
1999 = 8-8 (1397)
2000 = 5-11 (1203)

I put an asterix next to 1997, because it shows how a teams performance can affect the RB's output (and vice versa, for sure).

When the Cowboys are dominant between 1992-95 Emmit rushes for 1700+ on two occasions and 1400+ on the other two.

In 1997 the Cowboys have a sub-par year and Emmitt barely breaks 1000 yards for the season!

This can hardly be coincidence!

When a team is dominant, its easier for a RB to rack up yards.

Im sure I could do the exact same thing for Shaun Alexander, Priest Holmes, Eddie George and Terrell Davis.

All these guys had good to flat out awesome O-lines, most of them had a good to excellent QB - apart from Dillon who had neither.

With apologies to CS85 lets look at how Dillons/Bengals record compares and how it affect his output.

1997 = 7-9 (1129)
1998 = 3-13 (1130)
1999 = 4-12 (1200)
2000 = 4-12 (1435)
2001 = 6-10 (1315)
2002 = 2-14 (1311)

Those figures are remarkable by their consistency and downright amazing when you consider the overall record of the Bengals during that period (26-70)

A quick comparison.

Marshall Faulk = 1111 yards per season (Team record 67% wins)
Edgerrin James = 1427yds per season (Team record 74% wins)
Emmitt Smith = 1422yds per season (Team record 62% wins)
Corey Dillon = 1253 yds per season (Team record 27% wins)

The point I am making is that the quality of the team you are on is generally a huge factor when assessing the quality of the running back.

Faulk, James and Smith all had teams that won about 2/3 of their games and Dillons team barely won more than a quarter of theirs.

How can this not be a huge factor?

The rule is proven by the fact that the RB's shown above struggle when their team struggled - Dillons team struggled every year.

Put him on a good team and he goes for over 1600 yards - and as CS85 pointed out - that was on the downside of his career!

Put this guy in place of Bettis, Smith, James in the prime of his career and he outperforms all of them - the evidence is overwhelming.

tony hipchest
08-16-2007, 10:07 AM
Ok props to both you guys - some great points made.

Tony, one thing that jumped off the page was your statement in the last post:



Firstly, the rams were far from sucky in the 90's when Faulk played for them - in fact they were regularly dominant during that period.

Faulk's first year was 1999 and the Rams record was 13-3.
2000 = 10-6
2001 = 14-2
2002 = 7-9
2003 = 12-4
2004 = 8-8

Thats a combined record of 64-32 which is a dominating record.

The rule is proven by the fact that the RB's shown above struggle when their team struggled - Dillons team struggled every year.

Put him on a good team and he goes for over 1600 yards - and as CS85 pointed out - that was on the downside of his career!

Put this guy in place of Bettis, Smith, James in the prime of his career and he outperforms all of them - the evidence is overwhelming. :jawdrop: :bs:faulk didnt play for the rams in the 90's. he played for them in 1999. semantics aside, after the jim everett and boomer esiason era of the late 80's the rams and bungles were the losingest teams in football along with the cardinals. these 3 franchises were the laughing stock of the nfl in the 90's. hell the rams lost something like 18 straight games to the 49ers. faulk, being a great, hall of fame back was able to almost single handedly turn the team around. faulk had a great year for the colts the year before he was traded yet they went 3-13. james stepped into a 3-13 team and led the league in rushing. tomlinson went to a team that was said to have the worst offensive line in football and a quarterback controversy. he led them to their 1st playoffs in years.

corey dillon would never have been as good as smith, jerome, or james because he lacked the willpower, heart, and desire to do so. he was never one capable of carrying a team. he was always just an average back that needed a team to carry him (as proven by his lone stellar year with the patriots).

randy moss has this same problem. being on a losing team doesnt seem to hurt a. boldin, l. fitzgerald, r. williams, or a. johnsons production and none of them have the same talent as moss.

theres no way me or the sports writers who vote can put all the blame on the bengals for dillon not being a great back. its a chicken or the egg argument. does a team make a back great or does a back make a team great. its a symbiotic relationship and really the "blame" can be split 50-50.

i think its more than coincidence that the bungles had a relatively potent offense right before dillon got there (with blake, pickens, and scott) and immediately after he left (with carson, tj, and chad). it cant be that all the rumors of his bad attitude were just made up. it seems he might have been more of the problem while a greater back such as jerome, james, or smith woulda been part of the solution.

dillons 2 record setting games showed he obviously had talent. its just a shame his attitude rubbed off on and held down the rest of his teammates. attitude is something that turns around a down trodden team such as the saints, rams, colts, bungles etc.

theres no way he could be better than jerome, smith, and james, when he couldnt even be better than rudi johnson on his own team.

btw i hardly consider dillons 7th year in the league the "downside" of his career. maybe for an average back it is. great backs are usually still in their prime.

as for the teams on my list going to dominant teams sure it happened for a few such as
holmes- chiefs
davis- broncos
green- packers
lewis- ravens

oddly enough, none of these guys will make it to the hall of fame. now look at all the backs on my list who went to some of the poorest teams.

e. smith went to a 1-15 team that had 1st year troy aikman
tomlinson went to a team that has had 2 #1 picks in the draft (one of which was used on him)
faulk- went to a team that drafted p. manning after a 1-15 season
e. george went to the oilers to join mcnair shortly after a 1-15 season
martin joined the patriots after they used #1 pick on drew bledsoe after a 1-15 season. martin played for the jets shortly after they used #1 pick on keyshawn johnson.
(notice the trend here?)
seattle never did squat until s. alexander got there.
r. williams went to a horrible saints and miami team.
barry sanders was dominant. the lions never were.
the falcons never done anything before or after jamal anderson.

carson palmer was the #1 pick. either he pissed his opportunity a way to help build something great because he needed a team to carry him (not vice versa) or the bengals simply realized they had a better player in rudi johnson.

Livinginthe past
08-17-2007, 12:52 AM
I enjoyed the debate.

I think we've reached a point where we've both presented our cases - points, counter-points etc.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it pans out :cheers:

revefsreleets
08-20-2007, 03:45 PM
Oh, I wanted to add one point about why Bettis gets in (besides that he, too will have the advantage of being considered a great guy and "one of them" by the voters). He was the best big back to ever play the game. The man was always listed at 245 or 250, but he may have played at 15-20 pounds heavier than that. If you look at other big backs, they just don't last more than a few seasons. Even Earl Campbell, the OG big back, only managed 8 seasons before he wore down. Bettis almost doubled that.