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View Full Version : Bungles Look Shaky at Best


tony hipchest
08-19-2007, 12:38 AM
i know its only pre season, but these are some problems that are easilly going to carry over into the regular season:

their "up the gut" run defense is still softer than the belly of a jellyfish.

carson still fumbles everytime he thiks he might get tackled. kimo is currently leasing out the space he owns in carsons head if you got $3 to spare. (his hands have got to be smaller than culpeppers).

tab perry cannot fill the role of c. henry (who makes up for the lack of a TE who can catch more than a cold)

chad johnson just now realizes he was telegraphing all the passing plays that were designed for him by yapping to the defender "the ball is coming to me" everytime the ball was coming to him. (he tugs his gloves too)

they still havent drafted a good back up or 3rd down rb other than/since rudi johnson.

fansince'76
08-19-2007, 12:44 AM
But, but, but Carson said they're the "team to beat" in the AFC North. How can he be wrong? :blah: :blah: :blah:

tony hipchest
08-19-2007, 12:49 AM
How can he be wrong? :blah: :blah: :blah:


well... his decision on the hot dog add was about as right as modelling lipstick and mascara :hunch:

:banana:

Crushzilla
08-19-2007, 01:00 AM
well... his decision on the hot dog add was about as right as modelling lipstick and mascara :hunch:

:banana:

Or he's hoping that there is a subtle correlation between looking as gay as possible and Super Bowls

http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/photos/bradydg08162005.jpeg

Galax Steeler
08-19-2007, 06:50 AM
I guess if carson is going to dream he should dream big.

stillers4me
08-19-2007, 08:21 AM
The Ben-girl fans were killing themselves already last night!!!!!!!!!! (how in the world can their IR list have 20 people on it!!!!)

tony hipchest
08-19-2007, 11:54 AM
the bungles problems on run defense are painfully obvious. there is no flowing to the ball. the linebackers and db's stand around and wait for the ball carrier to come to them.

warden reverend attorney lewis clearly needs to get back to teaching and coaching. perhaps next year when he makes the move back to coordinator in baltimore or somewhere else where the players talents include more than playing dominoes, carving weapons from a toothbrush, and making wine from mash.

Black@Gold Forever32
08-19-2007, 12:25 PM
But how can this be?....With Ahmad Brooks at MLB he was supposed to solve all the Bengals woes on defense....He was the second coming of Mike Singletary according to some Bengals fans....lol

stillers4me
08-19-2007, 12:33 PM
This is soooooo typical of the Ben-girls and their fans. Yap, Yap Yap..............we're the best ever. We're going to win the Superbowl........yap yap yap before preseason even starts and the bam! Remember this quote just a couple of weeks ago???

"We expect to win our division and make a run at it,'' Palmer said. "We've got enough players, we've got good coaches and we've got some experience."

The fans are already jumping off the ship.

CantStop85
08-19-2007, 02:21 PM
lol It's funny...you go undefeated in preseason and everyone's saying "big deal, it doesn't mean anything"...you go winless and people act like you're on the Titanic.

their "up the gut" run defense is still softer than the belly of a jellyfish.
I'm going to have to disagree on this one...I think the run defense is actually improving. They only gave up 2.9 yards a carry last night, the longest gain being an 8 yard run by Deuce. If there's anything that's still soft on the bengals defense, it's the pass defense. Obviously they got torched by Detroit and Brees had little trouble passing last night. Hopefully the return of Johnathan Joseph will give the secondary and added spark.

carson still fumbles everytime he thiks he might get tackled. kimo is currently leasing out the space he owns in carsons head if you got $3 to spare. (his hands have got to be smaller than culpeppers).
If there is any weakness is Palmer's game, this would be it. It appears he has a hard time securing the ball when he gets sacked. This could be a side effect of always looking down the field and ignoring the rush, but it is something that he could work on.

tab perry cannot fill the role of c. henry (who makes up for the lack of a TE who can catch more than a cold)
Honestly, no one could fill the role of Chris Henry as far as 3rd receivers go. He's a special player who could be #1 on a lot of teams in the league (as far as abilities go). Tab Perry had a couple of good catches, but it's obvious he still needs some time to improve and work on his timing and route running. The TE will never be a focal point in the Bengals offense, but don't sleep on Reggie Kelly...he doesn't have blazing speed but he's a veteran and can make catches when the team needs him to.

chad johnson just now realizes he was telegraphing all the passing plays that were designed for him by yapping to the defender "the ball is coming to me" everytime the ball was coming to him. (he tugs his gloves too)
Yeah, that was mentioned in one of the articles from the Bengals-Saints joint practices...Mike McKenzie could tell when Chad was expecting the ball to come to him because he would tug on his gloves or make some other unconscious signal. Hopefully, now that Chad realizes this he'll be a bit more discrete.

they still havent drafted a good back up or 3rd down rb other than/since rudi johnson.
You can't say they haven't tried. They took Chris Perry in the first round and he's an excellent third down/pass catching back. The only problem is he can never stay healthy. Then they took Kenny Irons in the 2nd round this year and he looked like he'd be a nice change of pace to Rudi, but then he gets injured as well.

Kenny Watson is a veteran and reliable option as a backup or 3rd down rb, but I would definitely like to see them give one of the upcoming roster casualties a look. It looks awful murky behind Rudi Johnson right now.

tony hipchest
08-19-2007, 04:54 PM
I'm going to have to disagree on this one...I think the run defense is actually improving. They only gave up 2.9 yards a carry last night, the longest gain being an 8 yard run by Deuce. If there's anything that's still soft on the bengals defense, it's the pass defense. Obviously they got torched by Detroit and Brees had little trouble passing last night. Hopefully the return of Johnathan Joseph will give the secondary and added spark.

.whats the difference between the bengals and the titanic?

the titanic was sunk by an iceberg, whereas the bengals were sunk by pittsburgh.

:toofunny: damn, i kill me.

i didnt bother looking at the rush d's final statline, as i dont think it tells the whole story in a pre season game. teams will win, and teams will lose, but its how they do it that sets the tone for the regular season.

look at reggie bush's td when it was 1st team vs. 1st team. the saints clearly exposed a glaring weakness that most teams already know exists- no run stuffers on the line. lack of personnel is understandable and lb's over persuing is too.

but to watch 3-4 plays on that drive where the saints repeatedly run it up the gut where the backfield just stood ground and waited to make a tackle has to be a concern. making a tackle is great unless a rb is picking up 5 yards every carry, before it is made.

"flow to the ball" is a basic concept, and to see the bengals defenders on their heels was a pleasure to see from my point of view.

i gotta hand it to you though. every other bengalfan ive ever encountered woulda denied to the grave that any of the other issues i brought up even existed.

t. perry needs to learn to come back to the ball and catch it with his hands, not his chest. simple fundamentals.

CantStop85
08-19-2007, 05:26 PM
whats the difference between the bengals and the titanic?

the titanic was sunk by an iceberg, whereas the bengals were sunk by pittsburgh.

:toofunny: damn, i kill me.

i didnt bother looking at the rush d's final statline, as i dont think it tells the whole story in a pre season game. teams will win, and teams will lose, but its how they do it that sets the tone for the regular season.

look at reggie bush's td when it was 1st team vs. 1st team. the saints clearly exposed a glaring weakness that most teams already know exists- no run stuffers on the line. lack of personnel is understandable and lb's over persuing is too.

but to watch 3-4 plays on that drive where the saints repeatedly run it up the gut where the backfield just stood ground and waited to make a tackle has to be a concern. making a tackle is great unless a rb is picking up 5 yards every carry, before it is made.

"flow to the ball" is a basic concept, and to see the bengals defenders on their heels was a pleasure to see from my point of view.

i gotta hand it to you though. every other bengalfan ive ever encountered woulda denied to the grave that any of the other issues i brought up even existed.

t. perry needs to learn to come back to the ball and catch it with his hands, not his chest. simple fundamentals.

One thing you forgot to mention is the Bengals inability to score in the redzone in the first two preseason games. For one reason or another, they've been able to march the ball up and down the field, but once they get into the opponent's 20, the drive stalls.

But back to the run defense, I'd like to see more urgency in getting to the ball by Landon Johnson and Ed Hartwell...I think they did a little too much standing on their heels as you pointed out. Ahmad Brooks and Rashad Jeanty did a pretty good job of running to the ball carrier though.

On one of the TD runs up the middle (I think it was Bush), Brooks jumped the snap and would've hit Reggie at the line of scrimmage or in the backfield, but he hit the wrong hole and was out of position to make the tackle. That play was mostly inexperience...which we have quite a lot of in our linebackers. But they do have a lot of speed and ability. I know I remember seeing Brooks redirecting 4 or 5 running plays so that another defender could make a tackle for a short or no gain because he was busting up the running lane. The biggest highlight I remember from Brooks is when he came on a blitz and bull-dozed two blockers so that Herana-Daze Jones could fly in freely for the sack.

Anyway, I think our LB corps will improve more and more as the season progresses. I can see them making a few rookie mistakes, but I think they'll end up making a lot more big plays than they'll give up. The demise of the Bengals defense (if there is one) will be because of the secondary.

SteelCityMan786
08-19-2007, 06:14 PM
But, but, but Carson said they're the "team to beat" in the AFC North. How can he be wrong? :blah: :blah: :blah:

You know how them Bungals are.:sofunny:

tony hipchest
08-20-2007, 07:51 PM
One thing you forgot to mention is the Bengals inability to score in the redzone in the first two preseason games. For one reason or another, they've been able to march the ball up and down the field, but once they get into the opponent's 20, the drive stalls.

But back to the run defense, I'd like to see more urgency in getting to the ball by Landon Johnson and Ed Hartwell...I think they did a little too much standing on their heels as you pointed out. Ahmad Brooks and Rashad Jeanty did a pretty good job of running to the ball carrier though.

.in all fairness, if i were a bengalfan that wouldnt be one of my main concerns. that is more of a preseason deal, with vanilla offense, pulling starters early, and lack of gameplanning for the opponents defense. i dont think it has been the simplest of fundamentals keeping them out of the end zone this pre-season.

i would say the bengals offensive staff are better play callers on sunday as opposed to teachers on monday-saturday. on sunday they have the talent to score. talent that has probably made the coaching staff look better than it is. the steelers, chargers, eagles, patriots, denver, and even miami have all lost offensive coordinators to HC gigs in the past few years. the fact that bratkowski hasnt even been called for an interview says tons considering people have said the bengals have 1 of the most explosive offenses.



as far as their defensive problems i think peter king sums it up best in todays MMQB:

l. I don't know what the Bengals expected to happen to their league's 30th-rated defense when all they did in the offseason was add Leon Hall.

kenny irons proved to be the wrong move (you win some you lose some). in the bungles defense, i thought that i had read somewhere that they were very high on lamar woodley and had him targeted with their 2nd pick. they were kinda stunned by the right cross we threw when we did something we never do... take 2 lb's w/ our 1st 2 picks.

i dont think the bengals have mastered the art of the trade. steelers dont mess around waiting players to drop to them. bengals probably couldve easilly moved up if they didnt take for granted the steelers were not gonna take him. of course not having the 3rd rounder they gave up for ahmad brooks, left them a little thin with trade bait.

again, this is another fundamental problem, although it goes beyond what i have seen on the field in pre season.

Preacher
08-20-2007, 08:14 PM
Tony...

I would have to agree.

The main problem with the Bengals is probably STILL the F.O. HTey have improved in scouting talent. They need to improve in the rest of the aspects of F.O. leadership.

CantStop85
08-20-2007, 08:48 PM
kenny irons proved to be the wrong move (you win some you lose some). in the bungles defense, i thought that i had read somewhere that they were very high on lamar woodley and had him targeted with their 2nd pick. they were kinda stunned by the right cross we threw when we did something we never do... take 2 lb's w/ our 1st 2 picks.
Yeah, the Bengals most likely did have Woodley at the top of their board in the 2nd round, but the Steelers beat them to the draw. After Woodley was gone, there really wasn't much help left on the defensive side of the ball. The next DT taken was Turk McBride...and the next LB's taken were Quentin Moses, Quincy Black, and Buster Davis...all 3rd round picks. If you look at the position they were in, Kenny Irons was the best player available, it's just unfortunate that he happened to get injured.

As far as the rest of the draft goes, they took safety Marvin White in the 4th round, defensive tackle Matt Toeaina in the 6th, and safety Chinedum Ndukwe in the 7th. And let's not forget the 3rd rounder went to Ahmad Brooks who was actually able to participate in all of training camp this year. Draft-wise, I think the Bengals did about as much as they could to help themselves defensively.

As far as the free agency goes, everybody looks at the fact that the Bengals didn't sign that key free agent to play defense. But who exactly should they have gotten? Nate Clements for $80 million? Donnie Edwards on the backside of his career? Joey Porter? We see how that one's working out for the dolphins.

You have to build a defense through the draft in my opinion...and that's what the bengals are trying to do. Of course the incidents with David Pollack and Odell Thurman haven't helped.

But if I had to give reasons why the Bengals defense should be better this year. They would be: the subtraction of Tory James and addition of Leon Hall, the subtraction of Brian Simmons and addition of Ed Hartwell and/or Rashad Jeanty, the subtraction of Sam Adams and addition of Domata Peko, the move of Robert Geathers into a starting role, a healthy Madieu Williams, and a year of experience behind Ahmad Brooks and Johnathan Joseph.

I'm not saying these changes make the Bengals a top 5, top 10, or even top 16 defense, but I think it will at the very least move them out of the 30's, hopefully closer to the 'teens. The Bengals were able to get 11 wins with the 28th ranked defense and 8 wins with the 30th ranked defense. If they can just get into the low 20's, the Bengals will become a very dangerous squad.

MasterOfPuppets
08-20-2007, 09:06 PM
hey cs85, take a gander at this.....

America's Team? It's the Steelers
Posted Sep 27th 2006 9:14AM by JJ Cooper
Filed under: Steelers, AFC North

If you think you see Steelers bumper stickers and caps everywhere, you're right. According to the results of a recent Harris poll, the most popular NFL team is the Steelers (16 percent of fans called the Steelers their favorite team), with the Cowboys (15 percent) following slightly behind. While the Cowboys are still No. 2, they've fallen like an anvil since the poll began in 1999, when the Cowboys were the favorite of 25 percent of fans.

Thanks to Peyton Manning, the Colts have risen from being one of the least popular teams in the NFL in 1999 (1 percent) to third place (13 percent).

By the way, if you're a Jaguars, Saints or Ravens fan, congratulations, you're not a bandwagon jumper, as you're one of a rare breed, especially Jacksonville fans--the club finished dead last with 1 percent of respondents. I don't know what's more amazing, that the Jaguars have not drawn more than three percent since the poll began, or the fact that the Cardinals, the NFL's perennial foot stool, finished ahead of three other teams.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/category/steelers/2006/09/27/americas-team-its-the-steelers/

RoethlisBURGHer
08-20-2007, 09:33 PM
CS85, THE COWBOYS ARE SOUTH AMERICA'S TEAM!

verks36
08-20-2007, 09:47 PM
YA, not having a pass catching tight end is really going to hurt them now that henery is not playing for the first 8 games. There run game is good but it feads off the pass game. IF the pass game is down this year for the bengals then there offense is going to be effected. Also there line isnt that good they lost there best o linemen to free agency

Crushzilla
08-20-2007, 11:37 PM
Did CS just get pummeled for his false Cowboy's allegiance?

Serves you right! A die-har....

Ehh.. What's the use...

The jig is up. Better switch back to the Cinncy gear... you have it hard enough around here.

tony hipchest
08-20-2007, 11:54 PM
Yeah, the Bengals most likely did have Woodley at the top of their board in the 2nd round, but the Steelers beat them to the draw. After Woodley was gone, there really wasn't much help left on the defensive side of the ball. The next DT taken was Turk McBride...and the next LB's taken were Quentin Moses, Quincy Black, and Buster Davis...all 3rd round picks. If you look at the position they were in, Kenny Irons was the best player available, it's just unfortunate that he happened to get injured.

for a position so badly needed, you think they woulda considered a trade up and then settle for somebody like gary russel as an undrafted free agent.

As far as the rest of the draft goes, they took safety Marvin White in the 4th round, defensive tackle Matt Toeaina in the 6th, and safety Chinedum Ndukwe in the 7th. And let's not forget the 3rd rounder went to Ahmad Brooks who was actually able to participate in all of training camp this year. Draft-wise, I think the Bengals did about as much as they could to help themselves defensively.

just drafting 5 defenders doesnt mean youre helping yourself defensively. the bengalls pissed away 2 of last years picks on known defensive criminals. its one thing to pick them. totally different thing to develop them and see them make the roster.

As far as the free agency goes, everybody looks at the fact that the Bengals didn't sign that key free agent to play defense. But who exactly should they have gotten? Nate Clements for $80 million? Donnie Edwards on the backside of his career? Joey Porter? We see how that one's working out for the dolphins.

whats wrong with adalius thomas at a dire position of need? the bengals heavilly persued porter and he spurned them.

You have to build a defense through the draft in my opinion...and that's what the bengals are trying to do. Of course the incidents with David Pollack and Odell Thurman haven't helped.

i share this opinion. look at the top 20 defenders who will make the steelers 53 man roster. im hard pressed to find more than 3 that arent homegrown talent. j. farrior, r. clark, and t. kirchke were free agents. im not sure if kirchke is even top 20 but you get the point. j. harrison was picked up as an UDFA off the street = homegrown.

theres a formula to building a defense through the draft. players must sit and wait and be plugged into a solid unit with solid veterans. hampton really is the only one who started his 1st year. look how long it took ike, deshea, keisel, foote, haggans, harrison, etc to crack the starting line up. some took 4-5 years. as for those we have in the waiting, chris hoke, and anthony smith would easilly be starters on 2 teams who think they are SB favorites (the cowboys and bengals)

But if I had to give reasons why the Bengals defense should be better this year. They would be: the subtraction of Tory James and addition of Leon Hall, the subtraction of Brian Simmons and addition of Ed Hartwell and/or Rashad Jeanty, the subtraction of Sam Adams and addition of Domata Peko, the move of Robert Geathers into a starting role, a healthy Madieu Williams, and a year of experience behind Ahmad Brooks and Johnathan Joseph.

a year of experience should make all teams 2nd year players equally better so that point is a wash. james, simmons, and adams were looked at as the cornerstones of all 3 levels of defense the bengals were trying to build around. its true they have made alot of line up changes but its not like they are adding these new starters to a hampton, troy, and farrior.

I'm not saying these changes make the Bengals a top 5, top 10, or even top 16 defense, but I think it will at the very least move them out of the 30's, hopefully closer to the 'teens. The Bengals were able to get 11 wins with the 28th ranked defense and 8 wins with the 30th ranked defense. If they can just get into the low 20's, the Bengals will become a very dangerous squad.

defense win championships. even the colts were able to prove this last year in the playoffs.

i dont see the changes cinci has made that will get them up to #25. and even if they do, i dont see it as enough to stop the offenses like the steelers, pats, denver, or colts. while brooks and joseph have another year of experience, so does willie, santonio, washington, heath, and ben.

i dont see them in the low 20's on defense and they have lost steinbeck, henry, and irons on offense. hardly an upgrade there. so even a little better on defense and a little worse on offense doesnt make them a "very dangerous squad"