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83-Steelers-43
08-19-2007, 10:08 PM
So I was watching "The Nightly Sports Call" tonight. The topic was Jerome's new book, 'My Life in and out of a helmet: The Bus'. In his book he states.....

The Steelers organization intentionally held Kordell Kordell Stewart back so they did not have to pay Kordell the big bucks.

He also went on to state that Dick Hoke kept Warren over Lester because Whitman was a Penn State guy.

Bettis is taking some heat to say the least over his comments in his new book. If you make accusations such as the ones above, I guess you better expect it.

Oh, I almost forgot.

For those who love to....

(Insert local media conspiracy excuse even though it's in Jerome's book written by Jerome Bettis)

tony hipchest
08-19-2007, 10:22 PM
i agree that kordell would have benefitted from having an actual qb coach before 2001. even the absolute best college qb prospects get a position coach in the nfl. but it was probably a matter of tradition as opposed to the "man" holding kordell down.

mark malone
bubby brister
neil odonnell
mike tomzack/jimm miller/kent graham/k. stewart

*sigh*

83-Steelers-43
08-19-2007, 10:29 PM
It will be interesting to hear what they have to say on the "Sunday Sports Showdown" at 11:30 tonight. I went on Jerome's site to see if I could learn more about his book and all I could find was ordering information and this gem of a quote from Dan Rooney......

"Exciting - Entertaining - extra special like the Bus himself!" Dan Rooney, Owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers

OneForTheToe
08-19-2007, 10:31 PM
I saw it as well. It remains to be seen how big this will be. Certainly, it will cause a stir in Pittsburgh for a while, but it is doubtful it will have legs much outside Pittsburgh. Taking shots at Mike Tomzack is pretty much a yawn. Now, if Jerome took shots at Ben or Willie or any other current players in the book then it might be more.

He did seem to take a shot at the Rooneys over Kordell, but if the Rooneys are upset about it we probably won't here much since they don't air their dirty laundry in public. Obviously, Dan Rooney didn't read it or he wouldn't have given a positive note for the book jacket.

83-Steelers-43
08-19-2007, 10:34 PM
but if the Rooney's are upset about it we probably won't here much since they don't air their dirty laundry in public.

And they also tend to take the high road when it comes to attention grabbing, book selling B.S. such as this.

Also, the media in this city better watch how much they jump on this story. Jerome Bettis is at Ben Roethlisberger God status when it comes to taking any type of heat or even mild criticism. I'm sure they will walk slowly when it comes to Jerome's comments.

augustashark
08-19-2007, 11:04 PM
So I was watching "The Nightly Sports Call" tonight. The topic was Jerome's new book, 'My Life in and out of a helmet: The Bus'. In his book he states.....

The Steelers organization intentionally held Kordell Kordell Stewart back so they did not have to pay Kordell the big bucks.
He also went on to state that Dick Hoke kept Warren over Lester because Warren was a Penn State guy.

Bettis is taking some heat to say the least over his comments in his new book. If you make accusations such as the ones above, I guess you better expect it.

Oh, I almost forgot.

For those who love to....

(Insert local media conspiracy excuse even though it's in Jerome's book written by Jerome Bettis)

I think that Kordell did a good job setting himself back! Way more then the front office ever did.

tony hipchest
08-19-2007, 11:14 PM
im sure the rooneys arent sweating anything. they did give kordell the richest signing bonus at that time. they paid him the market value he didnt prove to deserve.

they didnt prematurely extend him just to ensure he'd fail and prove to be a waste of $$$. everybody wanted kordell to succeed. he was just 2nd fiddle to the defense, running back and o-line.

the steelers put o'donnell in i sb (that kordell participated in) and gave kordell the chance to go to several more.

but jerome is a businessman and he knows a book praising the rooneys will sell a hell of a lot less than one taking slams at them.

really, everyone knows his story anyways. this book will flop. if theres a name the book contest i got one:

I had asthma and won the superbowl :yawn:

SteelersMongol
08-19-2007, 11:35 PM
I'll buy the book anyways, as to support our good ol' Bus.

Steel Pit
08-20-2007, 12:51 AM
This doesn't suprise me. I've never considered Bettis to be a Steelers God. As a matter of fact I've pretty much done nothing but criticize him. I"ve stated several times that I was never a big Bettis fan. I just didn't view him as the great RB that many of you did. The Steelers kept him on their roster 3-4 years longer than they should have. I mean the guy lost his starting job to Amos (pronounced) Zere-a-way in 2001. He was mostly a momentum killer from then on. The guy was constantly stopped for very short and even negative yardage.

Screw Jerome Bettis. Send him a sack of Whoppers on me.

Preacher
08-20-2007, 01:06 AM
This doesn't suprise me. I've never considered Bettis to be a Steelers God. As a matter of fact I've pretty much done nothing but criticize him. I"ve stated several times that I was never a big Bettis fan. I just didn't view him as the great RB that many of you did. The Steelers kept him on their roster 3-4 years longer than they should have. I mean the guy lost his starting job to Amos (pronounced) Zere-a-way in 2001. He was mostly a momentum killer from then on. The guy was constantly stopped for very short and even negative yardage.

Screw Jerome Bettis. Send him a sack of Whoppers on me.

:rolleyes:

Sorry... I just can't help myself.

Jerome... Top five running backs in yardage in all time.

1.Emmitt Smith18,3552.Walter Payton16,7263.Barry Sanders15,2694.Curtis Martin14,1015.Jerome Bettis13,6626.Eric Dickerson13,2597.Tony Dorsett12,7398.Jim Brown12,3129.Marshall Faulk12,27910.Marcus Allen12,243

How in the WORLD is not a GREAT rusher? He would drag two and three people with him AT THE SAME TIME.

Oh yeah.. the year AFTER Amos started.... Don't forget the Bus rushed for just short of 1000 yards, again. This time... IN ONLY HAVE A SEASON!!

Next year... he STILL had it. Do you forget is game in Chicago? Sure, his body was broken down. He couldn't do it game in and game out. But when needed, he could STILL do it.

It is one thing to be an individual. Another to ignore reality in being an individual.

Black@Gold Forever32
08-20-2007, 01:45 AM
So what Bettis made some comments in a book...Get over it and I really don't care....Its funny that some on here always want to find something negative to post about.....To me this is a non story......

Preacher
08-20-2007, 01:48 AM
What I really wonder...

is how much truth is really in it... if the team was so run and defensive minded... it wouldn't surprise me... cause the RB is more important then the QB in that scenario.

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 06:59 AM
Jerome better sell some books - while channel surfing I saw the NBC halftime show last night, which featured Costas, Peter King, Collinsworth and rookie fave commentator Tiki Barber, but no Bus. There are only so many seats at the NBC table and I see Bettis being moved off the NBC team after this year.

I agree it was all downhill for Kordell after Gailey was replaced with the infamous Ray Sherman as O-coordinator (a hiring choice into which Kordell allegedly had input), but Jerome might consider that Kordell simply did not have the skill set to be a competent NFL passer (unlike another recent run first QB at least he did not have a dogfighting hobby).

Livinginthe past
08-20-2007, 08:07 AM
im sure the rooneys arent sweating anything. they did give kordell the richest signing bonus at that time. they paid him the market value he didnt prove to deserve.

they didnt prematurely extend him just to ensure he'd fail and prove to be a waste of $$$. everybody wanted kordell to succeed. he was just 2nd fiddle to the defense, running back and o-line.

the steelers put o'donnell in i sb (that kordell participated in) and gave kordell the chance to go to several more.

but jerome is a businessman and he knows a book praising the rooneys will sell a hell of a lot less than one taking slams at them.

really, everyone knows his story anyways. this book will flop. if theres a name the book contest i got one:

I had asthma and won the superbowl :yawn:

Its a pretty 'far out' conspiracy theory though right?

I mean who in their right mind seriously thinks that teams/coaches deliberately hold back players or negatively imapct their individual stats to ensure their 'worth' doesn't get too out of hand?

:wink02:

clevestinks
08-20-2007, 08:15 AM
Kordell was descent at best, and that was only once in awhile. He was sooooooooo overrated. He couldnt throw a strong arm bullet everything looked lobbed. The Steelers didnt hold him back.

I could although see theSteelers being bias to the PA guys. It shows in coaches players etc.

Jman
08-20-2007, 08:28 AM
I can't state anything new, so I'll echo what many have said. You cannot take away the greatness of the Bus. 5th leading rusher of all time (to date), has a championship in his final year (what a storybook ending!), and an outstanding leader for the team (ask any player).

As for his comments about Kordell Stewart. I don't know if Kordell was a product of Kordell or Kordell was a product of Cowher. One person mentioned RB is higher on the todem pole than QB in those days - I agree. Hands down. It didn't surprise me that the QB was slightly under-par.

But.... new QB, new RB, new coach - Good times in Steelers Country.

83-Steelers-43
08-20-2007, 09:10 AM
Steigerwarld on the book last night on the NSC......

Clip titled: Sound Off: "The Bus: My Life In & Out of a Helmet" http://kdka.com/sports

Interesting how he admits that he faked an injury on a play in practice when he already had a knee injury in order to get the 3 million that was scheduled in his contract and that the Steelers tried to find excuses to get rid of him in 1999.

fansince'76
08-20-2007, 09:22 AM
Yep, no way Kordell's own lack of ability as a QB and his stubbornness in not switching to WR (which he was FAR better suited to play) had anything to do with his being "held back." :coffee:

BlastFurnace
08-20-2007, 09:46 AM
Ok...I'll go out on a limb here...even though I honestly don't feel it's one. Kordell stunk as a QB...period. He had a very good first year, but that was it. He received countless chances, but he wasn't a QB. What was his excuse in Chicago where he was handed the starting QB job and failed there as well. He was an unrestricted free agent and no-one wanted him.

He should have stayed in his slash role for his entire career or swallowed his pride like Randel El did become a good WR.

Bettis looks really stupid with this comment.

Thanks for helping us get a ring Jerome...even though you almost single handedly blew it against the Colts.

nicesteel4life
08-20-2007, 09:48 AM
Loved the Bus when he was here, but since retiring he has been very exspressive of his NON-LOVE of the orginization. This seems to be another shot at the Steelers organization. He needs to keep his mouth shut or he may just hurt his image that we all had of him being a STEELER LEGEND. It's just a shame that Bettis is doing this stuff, through books, interviews and comments on national tv. It also could hurt his getting voted into the hall and he might even hurt his new found eatery in Pittsburgh. Seriously selling a book worth flatning your tires?

BlastFurnace
08-20-2007, 09:52 AM
Loved the Bus when he was here, but since retiring he has been very exspressive of his NON-LOVE of the orginization. This seems to be another shot at the Steelers organization. He needs to keep his mouth shut or he may just hurt his image that we all had of him being a STEELER LEGEND. It's just a shame that Bettis is doing this stuff, through books, interviews and comments on national tv. It also could hurt his getting voted into the hall and he might even hurt his new found eatery in Pittsburgh. Seriously selling a book worth flatning your tires?

I have heard that Bettis is not the fun-loving guy that everyone seems to think is/was.

I still think he had some information from Cowher last year that was said in "confidence" that he went public with. That, in my opinion, is why Cowher used the phrase "I was very disappointed" in the fact that the information leaked. Cowher never denied it, but he did use the phrase disappointed when referring to Bettis.

FAB802
08-20-2007, 09:56 AM
They aren't going to pay him much for a feel good book. Everyone knows he ended his career winning a Super Bowl in his home town. His comment about Kordell is garbage, but he probably knows a little more about the organization ahan anyone here since he actually PLAYED for them.

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 09:59 AM
The Bus correctly knows you are not going to sell a book by just saying how wonderful everyone is - it sounds like he pulls no punches on anyone, if admitting to faking a knee injury in practice to lock down a $3 million signing bonus is any indication. Bettis is cashing in now since I think his media career will be shortlived and his long term cash cow may be hoping his restaurant turns into a 'Burgh version of Ditka's in Chicago. The NFL is all about making money.

Bettis ended on the highest of high notes his last 2 years, but let's not forget he took some heat for being unable to go in the 2001 playoffs, legitimately was required to take a haircut on his contract in his later years, and was widely regarded as being out of shape in 2002 and 2003 - I doubt his memories are all favorable and a truthful book needs to reflect that.

Black@Gold Forever32
08-20-2007, 10:02 AM
Wow.....Most of you loved the Bus when he played...Now he made some negative comments about the Steelers he is the antichrist....lol Let me say most of you are sounding really hyprocritical right now...I don't agree with some of the things Bettis said in his book also but oh well...I don't always agree with some of things my friends/family say or do also....But I still like them.....So I will continue to support Jerome "The Bus" Bettis....

I swear some Steelers fans act like the Rooney family is like Pittsburgh Mafia....Don't make any bad comments toward the Family.......lol

83-Steelers-43
08-20-2007, 10:09 AM
I have heard that Bettis is not the fun-loving guy that everyone seems to think is/was.

I still think he had some information from Cowher last year that was said in "confidence" that he went public with. That, in my opinion, is why Cowher used the phrase "I was very disappointed" in the fact that the information leaked. Cowher never denied it, but he did use the phrase disappointed when referring to Bettis.

Personally, I really don't care what the guy has to say now that he's gone. If he wants to make a complete ass out himself in order to sell his book, that's his choice. As long as he's not here to distract the team with this book, go for it.

While this may not be news 500 miles to the north, south, east or west of Pittsburgh, it is here. Personally, I find the accusations interesting. I'm guessing that's why he wrote the book. You know.....to get people talking, get conversation started and eventually have people go out and purchase the book. Kind of like what's happening right now...lol.

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 10:15 AM
Only timing issue is why he did not crank the book out before the 2006 season - I will always be a Bettis fan for having the greatest impact of any post-70s Steeler but he frankly is yesterday's news

X-Terminator
08-20-2007, 10:20 AM
Wow.....Most of you loved the Bus when he played...Now he made some negative comments about the Steelers he is the antichrist....lol Let me say most of you are sounding really hyprocritical right now...I don't agree with some of the things Bettis said in his book also but oh well...I don't always agree with some of things my friends/family say or do also....But I still like them.....So I will continue to support Jerome "The Bus" Bettis....

I swear some Steelers fans act like the Rooney family is like Pittsburgh Mafia....Don't make any bad comments toward the Family.......lol

It's part and parcel with people in general, not simply Steelers fans, not liking/accepting it when people are honest. Let's be honest - the NFL is a business, and both ownership and the players are going to do whatever they have to do to maximize the amount of money they make. If that means using some less-than-honest tactics, then so be it. It's the nature of any multi-billion dollar business. Plus, how many people here like or agree with everything about their job or the people in charge? It simply is not realistic. It doesn't necessarily mean that you don't or didn't like your job overall. Do I agree with some of the comments Bettis made? No, certainly not. Will it change my feelings about him as a player or minimize his accomplishments? No. Will I curse him now and forever? No. But I know that many Steelers fans will, not only over this but also because he was a huge supporter of Don Barden's successful bid for Pittsburgh slots license, thus putting the future of the Penguins at risk at the time. His restaurant will be the first to take a hit, just like Rod Woodson's did when he criticized the team and city.

Steeldude
08-20-2007, 10:53 AM
The Steelers organization intentionally held Kordell Kordell Stewart back so they did not have to pay Kordell the big bucks.

no coaching in the world could have helped KS. KS received more help than any other QB in the NFL. he also received a huge raise after the 1997 illusion...uh i mean season.

looks to me that bettis is doing what so many other ex-athlete/writers do. that's spicing up the book with controversy.

83-Steelers-43
08-20-2007, 10:58 AM
HSZNsL4YLDI I GOT ON THE BUS WITH JUDGE WILLIAMS BECAUSE JEROME TOLD ME TO!!!!! :tt02:

BlastFurnace
08-20-2007, 11:44 AM
no coaching in the world could have helped KS. KS received more help than any other QB in the NFL. he also received a huge raise after the 1997 illusion...uh i mean season.

looks to me that bettis is doing what so many other ex-athlete/writers do. that's spicing up the book with controversy.

Problem is that only Bettis and Stewart actually believe that Kordell was held back. No-one who watched Stewart play QB for the 5+ seasons he played in Pittsburgh would come to the same conclusion.

Stewart couldn't read anything beyond a 5 yard screen pass. He was a great athlete who could have been huge if he had stayed in his Slash role.

HometownGal
08-20-2007, 12:01 PM
Personally, I don't give a rat's hiney what Jerome writes in a book - I cared more about what he brought to the team and did on the field. He more than surpassed my expectations of him when he first came to the Steelers in 1996, and with all of the good things he has done in and for the Pittsburgh community, including his weekly visits to Childrens Hospital to read to the children, what he crafts in a book doesn't change my favorable opinion of The Bus and what he meant to the team, the organization and the fans.

rbryan
08-20-2007, 12:20 PM
Jerome is officially a media guy now. This is what media types do. Say or write things that are controversial. Thats the only way to stand out from the 100's of ex jocks in broadcasing today.

As someone mentioned earlier, I don't see Jerome having a long broadcasting career. He was a nice story after the SB which is why he landed the gig, but he just doesn't have the charisma for TV. He won't be able to sell 100 books in a few years(he might not sell many more than that now) so I suppose you can't fault him for taking his shot now.

Black@Gold Forever32
08-20-2007, 12:22 PM
Personally, I don't give a rat's hiney what Jerome writes in a book - I cared more about what he brought to the team and did on the field. He more than surpassed my expectations of him when he first came to the Steelers in 1996, and with all of the good things he has done in and for the Pittsburgh community, including his weekly visits to Childrens Hospital to read to the children, what he crafts in a book doesn't change my favorable opinion of The Bus and what he meant to the team, the organization and the fans.

:thumbsup:Great post Hometown...........Bettis has done more positive in his time with the Steelers to outshine some negative comments that he made about the Steelers in a book.....I couldn't agree with you more....:jammin:

fansince'76
08-20-2007, 12:32 PM
As someone mentioned earlier, I don't see Jerome having a long broadcasting career. He was a nice story after the SB which is why he landed the gig, but he just doesn't have the charisma for TV. He won't be able to sell 100 books in a few years(he might not sell many more than that now) so I suppose you can't fault him for taking his shot now.

Charisma? I would like someone to please explain Collinsworth to me then - that pencil-neck geek has about as much charisma as a buck-toothed pig and has lasted in broadcasting for years now.

Mosca
08-20-2007, 12:33 PM
I don't think it's any great secret that the Steelers organization wasn't (and isn't) perfect.

I think that Kordell Stewart was an exceptional case, and there weren't many organizations which were properly staffed to maximize his potential. Was his development hindered by the Steelers organization? Unquestionably. Was it the FAULT of the Steelers organization? Definitely not. Kordell was a high maintenance guy in an organization that has been geared to low maintenance guys since the day Chuck Noll walked through the door. A quarterback coach might have helped him, or might not have; it would have depended on who the coach was. The issues were both mechanical AND emotional/mental.

Suffice to say that the organization stuck with Kordell for a long time, and endured some tough seasons because of him.

As far as Bettis dishing, I don't care. I never expected the Rooneys to be perfect. Leadership is sometimes guessing, and sometimes they guessed wrong. Art Sr, the grand old man, guessed wrong for 35 years. I think the statement that the Steelers intentionally impeded Kordell's development in order to avoid paying him ( at the expense of another dynasty; a top QB was all we needed in the late '90s/early '00s) is ludicrous on the face of it, and calls into question Bettis' credibility on all other topics. Based on that statement alone, I don't think Bettis can see the forest because of the trees.


Tom

rbryan
08-20-2007, 12:42 PM
Charisma? I would like someone to please explain Collinsworth to me then - that pencil-neck geek has about as much charisma as a buck-toothed pig and has lasted in broadcasting for years now.

Once someone like Collinsworth manages to stay around as long as he has he automatically has creditbility whether he deserves it or not.

I agee with you though, it is mystery how he ever managed to make it this long.

Steelerstrength
08-20-2007, 01:48 PM
Charisma? I would like someone to please explain Collinsworth to me then - that pencil-neck geek has about as much charisma as a buck-toothed pig and has lasted in broadcasting for years now.

:sofunny::sofunny:

I attempted serious consideration of the"why?" and just started cracking-up! Let's see, maybe there are quite a few who like non-threatening dorks? No, can't be that, this is football. Maybe a lot of pencil-neck geeks with buck-teeth? Hell no!

Conclusion: Why the hell is he still here? Well, I can't possibly believe that anyone on earth likes Bob Costas, and he's still around. So, logic says that those who are most disliked are kept on television. That's messed-up! :banging:

rbryan
08-20-2007, 01:53 PM
Its the Howard Cosell theory. Networks will keep a guy around whether people are tuning in because they like him or whether they like to hate him. As long as thier tuning in the networks could care less.

fansince'76
08-20-2007, 01:55 PM
Well, I can't possibly believe that anyone on earth likes Bob Costas, and he's still around. So, logic says that those who are most disliked are kept on television. That's messed-up! :banging:

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

I always figured Costas was the "freak show" element: "Step right up folks, see the incredible dwarf wax philosophical about all things sports."

http://graphics.gemm.com/graphics_db/DW/dwarec.logo.jpg

:chuckle:

Steelerstrength
08-20-2007, 02:00 PM
:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

I always figured Costas was the "freak show" element: "Step right up folks, see the incredible dwarf wax philosophical about all things sports."

http://graphics.gemm.com/graphics_db/DW/dwarec.logo.jpg

:chuckle:

Hey that's a great snapshot of Little Bobby! :sofunny::sofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

Jman
08-20-2007, 02:14 PM
Once someone like Collinsworth manages to stay around as long as he has he automatically has creditbility whether he deserves it or not.

And the Bus doesn't deserve his credibility based on his on-the-field play? I'm confused.

rbryan
08-20-2007, 02:28 PM
I never said Collinsworth deserved anything. Different times now. Back when Collinsworth got into broadcasting there wasn't anywhere near the amount of NFL coverage as today nor as many ex players in broadcasting.

HometownGal
08-20-2007, 02:32 PM
Charisma? I would like someone to please explain Collinsworth to me then - that pencil-neck geek has about as much charisma as a buck-toothed pig and has lasted in broadcasting for years now.

While they're at it, they can also explain how Madden, Theisman and Comb-over Kornheiser have charisma. :jawdrop::yuck::yuck:

revefsreleets
08-20-2007, 04:26 PM
Ha-ha! Kordell was "held back"? That's the easiest theory to refute ever.

A) No other team in the league would have given the guy as many snaps as Kordell got. He was not given second chances, he was given 745th chances.
B) He certainly tore it up when he escaped being held back in Pittsburgh, didn't he? Gosh, just look at these post Steelers numbers.

12 games, 126/251 for a completion % of 50.2, 1418 yards, 7 TD's and 12 TD's and a QB rating of 56.8.

Kordell sucked. In fact, the term "Kordoza line" is accepted as the bare minimum QB rating for an NFL QB at 70. (That's a take on the Mendoza line for those of you who don't recognize the term).

BlastFurnace
08-20-2007, 04:52 PM
Ha-ha! Kordell was "held back"? That's the easiest theory to refute ever.

A) No other team in the league would have given the guy as many snaps as Kordell got. He was not given second chances, he was given 745th chances.
B) He certainly tore it up when he escaped being held back in Pittsburgh, didn't he? Gosh, just look at these post Steelers numbers.

12 games, 126/251 for a completion % of 50.2, 1418 yards, 7 TD's and 12 TD's and a QB rating of 56.8.

Kordell sucked. In fact, the term "Kordoza line" is accepted as the bare minimum QB rating for an NFL QB at 70. (That's a take on the Mendoza line for those of you who don't recognize the term).

It is amazing to me that someone like Bettis or any fan of the team would think that the team held Kordell back. I don't ever remember a lower production player on the Steelers who continually received chance after chance.

He was the 90's version of Mark Malone.

MasterOfPuppets
08-20-2007, 06:11 PM
here all along i thought it was kordell holding the steelers back.....i'll be damned :huh:

83-Steelers-43
08-20-2007, 06:28 PM
It is amazing to me that someone like Bettis or any fan of the team would think that the team held Kordell back. I don't ever remember a lower production player on the Steelers who continually received chance after chance.

He was the 90's version of Mark Malone.

The voice of reason. PRAISE JEEEEEEESUS!!!!!!!

But always remember, Jerome knows......because he played on the team. Not because he's trying to sell a book. Now I know why Kordell showed up at the opening of Jerome Bettis Grill 36.

But yeah, Kordell was held down by the man in Pittsburgh. That was his problem. The Rooney's and Cowher, yep...that was it. What a crock of shit.

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 06:33 PM
The voice of reason. PRAISE JEEEEEEESUS!!!!!!!

But always remember, Jerome knows......because he played on the team. Not because he's trying to sell a book.

To the extent a defense of Jerome's position can be made (aside from the compelling fact that he was in the locker room and we were not), the hiring of Gilbride as O-coordinator and the Kent Graham era certainly do not reflect well on Cowher's decisionmaking in the late 1990s.

OTOH Stewart was dumped 2 games and three quarters into the 2002 season, so my bet is the coaches bought into Tomczak's public statements that Kordell simply refused to put in the time watching film.

BlastFurnace
08-20-2007, 07:50 PM
To the extent a defense of Jerome's position can be made (aside from the compelling fact that he was in the locker room and we were not), the hiring of Gilbride as O-coordinator and the Kent Graham era certainly do not reflect well on Cowher's decisionmaking in the late 1990s.

OTOH Stewart was dumped 2 games and three quarters into the 2002 season, so my bet is the coaches bought into Tomczak's public statements that Kordell simply refused to put in the time watching film.


I think his benching in 2002 had more to do with the team being 0-2 and staring down the barrell at 0-3 with a loss to the Browns after another interception in the red zone.

Preacher
08-20-2007, 07:55 PM
The voice of reason. PRAISE JEEEEEEESUS!!!!!!!

But always remember, Jerome knows......because he played on the team. Not because he's trying to sell a book. Now I know why Kordell showed up at the opening of Jerome Bettis Grill 36.

But yeah, Kordell was held down by the man in Pittsburgh. That was his problem. The Rooney's and Cowher, yep...that was it. What a crock of shit.

I have posted before that I do think Kordell got a short end of the stick for a couple reasons. Yes, he got multiple chances. Yes, he loved to whine.

However, if he was as bad as everyone states... WHY IN THE WORLD would the Steelers NOT give him a QB coach? Why in the world bring in Coordinator after coordinator that all were demanding Kordell be what he wasn't.... a pocket passer?

In my opinion, Kordell was the best QB we had since Bradshaw... (up until we picked Ben and got Batch) of course, that's not saying much!!

83-Steelers-43
08-20-2007, 08:28 PM
I think his benching in 2002 had more to do with the team being 0-2 and staring down the barrell at 0-3 with a loss to the Browns after another interception in the red zone.

I'm sorry, the Rooney's did not set Kordell up to fail. IMO, he did not have the tools to begin with. The brain or the accuracy to be a good, starting QB in the NFL was not there. Here we go...if anybody, thank Cowher (God #3 on the list now?) for keeping him around.

He was athletic....that's sounds familiar. :yawn:

Kordell got the short end of the stick in Pittsburgh like Bill Gates got the short end of the stick in microsoft, Paul Allen being the Rooney's of course. Kordell was a joke....a freak show. Take the Slash role Korkie, take the Slash role. Ego and pride got in the way. But I will invite him to my new joint when I open it up. :wink02:

Yeah.....the Rooney's held Kordell back....ROTFLMFAO.

Atlanta Dan
08-20-2007, 08:44 PM
I think his benching in 2002 had more to do with the team being 0-2 and staring down the barrell at 0-3 with a loss to the Browns after another interception in the red zone.

Which went back to the fact he had a rocky 2001 AFC championship game, bad 2002 camp, and had made no apparent effort to raise the level of his game in the prior offseason.

Once Maddux came in there was no turning back, which indicates more than a rough start to the 2002 season was in play.. Kordell wasn't benched in game 3 - he was fired.

Preacher
08-20-2007, 09:07 PM
I'm sorry, the Rooney's did not set Kordell up to fail. IMO, he did not have the tools to begin with. The brain or the accuracy to be a good, starting QB in the NFL was not there. Here we go...if anybody, thank Cowher (God #3 on the list now?) for keeping him around.

He was athletic....that's sounds familiar. :yawn:

Kordell got the short end of the stick in Pittsburgh like Bill Gates got the short end of the stick in microsoft, Paul Allen being the Rooney's of course. Kordell was a joke....a freak show. Take the Slash role Korkie, take the Slash role. Ego and pride got in the way. But I will invite him to my new joint when I open it up. :wink02:

Yeah.....the Rooney's held Kordell back....ROTFLMFAO.

Realize, I am not saying they held him back... Just that there were a couple of poor decisions concerning his development... In the same way that Reed asked for smaller goalposts to practice on, and Cowher said no.

Is this dump on Cowher time? Nope. He restored the pride in the Black and Gold after an UGLY decade. Is Bettis correct that Kordell was held back? Probably not. Remember Kordell didn't have the tools when he went to Chicago. However, we don't know if focused development by a QB coach would have helped him.


However, in the end... I completely agree with you 83... He shoulda stuck with the slash role. He was SO much better, and was a much better receiver then he EVER would have been a QB. Imagine if we had him, Randle El, Ward, and Plax together? Of course, they would have never been on the field together... 4 wide was the devil during those years!

JackHammer
08-20-2007, 09:11 PM
I haven't even bothered reading the replies to the O.P. so I don't know if this was mentioned. Simply put, controversy sells.

delhess
08-20-2007, 09:16 PM
What I really wonder...

is how much truth is really in it... if the team was so run and defensive minded... it wouldn't surprise me... cause the RB is more important then the QB in that scenario.

the qb has never been a priority in pittsburgh for years. the ben era is a new time when the qb matters again. the cordell years were all about defense, and running the ball. i'm not a conspiracy theorist, i just think it was a matter of fact, not intentional.

TackleMeBen
08-20-2007, 09:17 PM
so my bet is the coaches bought into Tomczak's public statements that Kordell simply refused to put in the time watching film.

isnt that the same thing people were saying about another qb in pittsburgh.. and somehow he manage to win a superbowl and all the playoff games on the road?:flap::flap:

delhess
08-20-2007, 09:22 PM
Is Bettis correct that Kordell was held back? Probably not. Remember Kordell didn't have the tools when he went to Chicago. However, we don't know if focused development by a QB coach would have helped him.

yeah preacher.... i think by the time he reached chicago he was long gone. actually long before that. it's like a kid who is beaten by his father for ten years, then he is sent to another family, and is a failure, and you say "see, he was a failure anyway" well, you never will know what he could have been.

don't think they held him back on purpose, just a bad situation for him. cowher was defensive coach, so he put all the attention into the one bright spot, the defense. kordell was like an unwanted stepchild to the steelers and the pittsburgh fans.

JackHammer
08-20-2007, 09:40 PM
yeah preacher.... i think by the time he reached chicago he was long gone. actually long before that. it's like a kid who is beaten by his father for ten years, then he is sent to another family, and is a failure, and you say "see, he was a failure anyway" well, you never will know what he could have been.

don't think they held him back on purpose, just a bad situation for him. cowher was defensive coach, so he put all the attention into the one bright spot, the defense. kordell was like an unwanted stepchild to the steelers and the pittsburgh fans.

I wouldn't go so far as to say he was held back or an unwanted stepchild, but it was a failed venture nonetheless. He insisted he was a quarterback while almost everyone else insisted he was slash. On one hand, I don't blame him since he was a QB for the majority of his playing life. On the other hand, this is the NFL. You have to be really good at what you do to make the big bucks and the big plays. Kork was REALLY good, if not great, at being Slash. He made his own bed and has to sleep in it. If the Steelers are at fault for anything, it's for believing in him as a QB for far too long. Most teams wouldn't have kept him for half as long as we did.

BlastFurnace
08-20-2007, 09:52 PM
I have posted before that I do think Kordell got a short end of the stick for a couple reasons. Yes, he got multiple chances. Yes, he loved to whine.

However, if he was as bad as everyone states... WHY IN THE WORLD would the Steelers NOT give him a QB coach? Why in the world bring in Coordinator after coordinator that all were demanding Kordell be what he wasn't.... a pocket passer?

In my opinion, Kordell was the best QB we had since Bradshaw... (up until we picked Ben and got Batch) of course, that's not saying much!!

No way Preacher. NOD was a much better QB than Kordell. Had NOD stayed in Pittsburgh, Kordell never plays QB on a regular basis.

BlastFurnace
08-20-2007, 09:56 PM
I'm sorry, the Rooney's did not set Kordell up to fail. IMO, he did not have the tools to begin with. The brain or the accuracy to be a good, starting QB in the NFL was not there. Here we go...if anybody, thank Cowher (God #3 on the list now?) for keeping him around.

He was athletic....that's sounds familiar. :yawn:

Kordell got the short end of the stick in Pittsburgh like Bill Gates got the short end of the stick in microsoft, Paul Allen being the Rooney's of course. Kordell was a joke....a freak show. Take the Slash role Korkie, take the Slash role. Ego and pride got in the way. But I will invite him to my new joint when I open it up. :wink02:

Yeah.....the Rooney's held Kordell back....ROTFLMFAO.5

I agree with you 100%. I meant to say that this start to the 2002 season was just the final straw in a string of bad decisions by Kordell. It's too bad he couldn't swallow his pride like REL did and realize he wasn't an NFL caliber QB.

Mosca
08-20-2007, 10:15 PM
I am in no way a fan of Kordell Stewart.

That being said, the guy had a couple pretty good years for us. And he had some games where he was unbelievably good. The problem was the inconsistency; he would stink up the joint for half a game, and then led us to victory in the second half.

The guy had the tools. But he was a high maintenance personality among low maintenance teammates and coaches. And it just wasn't going to happen.


Tom

SteelersMongol
08-20-2007, 10:52 PM
Personally, I don't give a rat's hiney what Jerome writes in a book - I cared more about what he brought to the team and did on the field. He more than surpassed my expectations of him when he first came to the Steelers in 1996, and with all of the good things he has done in and for the Pittsburgh community, including his weekly visits to Childrens Hospital to read to the children, what he crafts in a book doesn't change my favorable opinion of The Bus and what he meant to the team, the organization and the fans.

Exactly! :tt02:

Preacher
08-20-2007, 11:26 PM
The guy had the tools. But he was a high maintenance personality among low maintenance teammates and coaches. And it just wasn't going to happen.


And that... beyond all else... was probably the real problem.

Steel Pit
08-21-2007, 12:20 AM
:rolleyes:

Sorry... I just can't help myself.

Jerome... Top five running backs in yardage in all time.

1.Emmitt Smith18,3552.Walter Payton16,7263.Barry Sanders15,2694.Curtis Martin14,1015.Jerome Bettis13,6626.Eric Dickerson13,2597.Tony Dorsett12,7398.Jim Brown12,3129.Marshall Faulk12,27910.Marcus Allen12,243

How in the WORLD is not a GREAT rusher? He would drag two and three people with him AT THE SAME TIME.

Oh yeah.. the year AFTER Amos started.... Don't forget the Bus rushed for just short of 1000 yards, again. This time... IN ONLY HAVE A SEASON!!

Next year... he STILL had it. Do you forget is game in Chicago? Sure, his body was broken down. He couldn't do it game in and game out. But when needed, he could STILL do it.

It is one thing to be an individual. Another to ignore reality in being an individual.

Ignore reality? In my realistic world, typically after losing another playoff game to an inferior team, I would find myself wondering, WHAT IN THE H E L L HAPPENED TO THE SO-CALLED "GREAT JEROME BETTIS"? I mean Bill Cowher's game plan was to pound that 265 pound, unstoppable, future Hall of Fame RB at the opposition and you could have bet your next of kin that there wasn't anybody out there that was going to stop this GIGANTIC of a RB. After all, this was "THE GREAT Jerome Bettis" BABY! He's the #5 all-time RB. Yes, I hear you, I see the rankings, but it just doesn't register with me. That's how Bettis is viewed in my world. Unrealistic? Perhaps ,but this is certainly not the opinion of one individual.

I could provide you with some Bettis numbers but do you really want to see those ridiculous rushing totals from the biggest games of Jerome's career? No Sir, you know how pitiful they are, and if you don't, then trust me, you don't want to see them.

I will offer you this, you go ahead and put together a Jerome Bettis-career highlights video. Be sure to include all the runs in which Bettis would drag 2 or 3 defenders with him, LOL.. Your video, including the few spectacular plays that I can recall in Bettis' career, probably won't be more than 2 or 3 minutes long.

In the meantime, I'll put together MANY hours of video that show Jerome Bettis being dumped either in the backfield or at the line of scrimmage by a single defender who has done nothing more than wrap his arms around Jerome's ankle.

Now you can blame the offensive line play if you like but I'll give you pre-warning, most of my footage will be from Steelers teams that made the playoffs including some that secured home field advantage throughout the playoffs. These were pretyy dawg-on solid offensive lines. I assure you that I will have 15 times the qualifying footage that you will assemble.

Here's alist of the top 20 RB's of all-time. Let's assume that we were drafting these players in the prime of their careers. How far down the draft board do you project that BIG-OLE #5 RB of all-time will fall? I have him going 18th or 19th just ahead of Joe Perry and Eddie George.

Rank Player League Yrs. Att. Yards Avg. TD
1 (1) Emmitt Smith NFL 15 4,409 18,355 4.2 164
2 (2) Walter Payton * NFL 13 3,838 16,726 4.4 110
3 (3) Barry Sanders * NFL 10 3,062 15,269 5.0 99
4 (4) CURTIS MARTIN NFL 11 3,518 14,101 4.0 90
5 (5) JEROME BETTIS NFL 13 3,479 13,662 3.9 91
6 (6) Eric Dickerson * NFL 11 2,996 13,259 4.4 90
7 (7) Tony Dorsett * NFL 12 2,936 12,739 4.3 77
8 (8) Jim Brown * NFL 9 2,359 12,312 5.2 106
9 (12) MARSHALL FAULK NFL 12 2,836 12,279 4.3 100
10 (9) Marcus Allen * NFL 16 3,022 12,243 4.1 123
11 (10) Franco Harris * NFL 13 2,949 12,120 4.1 91
12 (11) Thurman Thomas NFL 13 2,877 12,074 4.2 65
13 (13) John Riggins * NFL 14 2,916 11,352 3.9 104
14 (14) O.J. Simpson * AFL-NFL 11 2,404 11,236 4.7 61
15 (15) Ricky Watters NFL 10 2,622 10,643 4.1 78
16 (16) Eddie George NFL 9 2,865 10,441 3.6 68
17 (19) COREY DILLON NFL 9 2,419 10,429 4.3 69
18 (17) O.J. Anderson NFL 14 2,562 10,273 4.0 81
19 (18) Joe Perry * AAFC-NFL 16 1,929 9,723 5.0 71
20 (20) Earl Campbell * NFL 8 2,187 9,407 4.3 74


Now, tell me again how great Jerome Bettis was because the signal just isn't reaching my little place on this planet. :yap:

Preacher
08-21-2007, 12:39 AM
Ignore reality? In my realistic world, typically after losing another playoff game to an inferior team, I would find myself wondering, WHAT IN THE H E L L HAPPENED TO THE SO-CALLED "GREAT JEROME BETTIS"? I mean Bill Cowher's game plan was to pound that 265 pound, unstoppable, future Hall of Fame RB at the opposition and you could have bet your next of kin that there wasn't anybody out there that was going to stop this GIGANTIC of a RB. After all, this was "THE GREAT Jerome Bettis" BABY! He's the #5 all-time RB. Yes, I hear you, I see the rankings, but it just doesn't register with me. That's how Bettis is viewed in my world. Unrealistic? Perhaps ,but this is certainly not the opinion of one individual.

I could provide you with some Bettis numbers but do you really want to see those ridiculous rushing totals from the biggest games of Jerome's career? No Sir, you know how pitiful they are, and if you don't, then trust me, you don't want to see them.

Now, tell me again how great Jerome Bettis was because the signal just isn't reaching my little place on this planet. :yap:

And that was all Bettis' fault?

Hmm.. Let us re-visit this. We had no passing offense. We never threw to a TE, we never did ANYTHING but give teh ball to Bettis up the middle. It worked GREAT throughout the year. BUt when we went up against playoff calendar teams with playoff caliber defenses, we simply couldn't measure up. Not when all we could do was run the ball, and wear down Jerome for 16 games, THEN wonder why he couldn't carry the offense for another 2, 3 games.

When your offense allows teams to line up 8,9 in the box, and your opponent is a playoff caliber opponent... good luck. That is why I was SO excited when we actually started developing a pass offense.

Steel Pit
08-21-2007, 02:52 AM
And that was all Bettis' fault?

Hmm.. Let us re-visit this. We had no passing offense. We never threw to a TE, we never did ANYTHING but give teh ball to Bettis up the middle. It worked GREAT throughout the year. BUt when we went up against playoff calendar teams with playoff caliber defenses, we simply couldn't measure up. Not when all we could do was run the ball, and wear down Jerome for 16 games, THEN wonder why he couldn't carry the offense for another 2, 3 games.

When your offense allows teams to line up 8,9 in the box, and your opponent is a playoff caliber opponent... good luck. That is why I was SO excited when we actually started developing a pass offense.

I agree with part of your theory but that's another topic. Bill Cowher and his stubborn offensive philosophies did pit Bettis against 8 man fronts. I wouldn't use that as an excuse for Bettis nor would I suggest that a 16 game regular season wore him down. If that's the case then the Steelers should have released him long before they did. I mean after all, I'm sure that the Steelers had higher aspirations then simply playing a 16 game regular season. If their RB was ill-prepared to go beyond 16 games then it' was time to find a new one.

You don't hear RB's on championship caliber teams whining about their seasons being extended into the playoffs. That's what they live for. The opportunity to play beyond the regular season, the opportunity to shine on the largest of stages, the opportunity to produce against 8 and 9 man defensive sets. That's what the all-time great RB's have done. Bettis DID NOT!

Blame it on the coach, blame it on our lack of a passing attack. If Bettis was all that you say he was then he should have done FAR better then he did during those playoff losses. The guy was simply SHUT DOWN. In those games, an offensive guard carrying the ball wouldn't have been any less effective.

But I respect ones right to have their own opinion. I'll debate it with you sure, but if I saw you walking down the street wearing a Bettis jersey I would give you a pat on the back.

Cowher, and many of you as well, had too much faith in Jerome. Bettis had several big game opportunities and he simply failed to produce. This is not indicative of a top 5 all-time RB.

Preacher
08-21-2007, 03:13 AM
. I wouldn't use that as an excuse for Bettis nor would I suggest that a 16 game regular season wore him down. If that's the case then the Steelers should have released him long before they did. I mean after all, I'm sure that the Steelers had higher aspirations then simply playing a 16 game regular season. If their RB was ill-prepared to go beyond 16 games then it' was time to find a new one.

Please, show me the last team that is was a run first, run always team that won the SB?

Fact is, when you wear down a player like that, you get what you ask for. What we SHOULD have done, is bring in a second back to start sharing the load much earlier then 2002.

Oh yeah... and before you go to the Raven's SB win... remember, they had Trent Dilfer. No, he wasn't the greatest player. However, he could throw a 10, 20, 30 yard pass, so they did NOT have to line up against 8 or 9 in the box.

Star RB's? Of the top five, Jerome was the ONLY ONE that had to run CONSISTENTLY against that.

I'm sorry, but a RB simply can not run when he is hit at the line by two and three players time and again because everyone and thier sister knows what your going to do.

it is what happens when you step up and play a higher caliber team.

fansince'76
08-21-2007, 04:37 AM
You don't hear RB's on championship caliber teams whining about their seasons being extended into the playoffs. That's what they live for. The opportunity to play beyond the regular season, the opportunity to shine on the largest of stages, the opportunity to produce against 8 and 9 man defensive sets. That's what the all-time great RB's have done. Bettis DID NOT!

Like Emmitt Smith's 18-carry, 49-yard performance against us in SB XXX? And that despite the fact he was running behind arguably one of the greatest OLs in NFL history. What happened there? Oh, that's right, the Cowboys also had a HoF QB and a HoF WR. And it still took our QB single-handedly throwing the game away for them to win it. And that was before Bettis even joined the Steelers.

How about the 3 costly INTs for Kordell in both the '97 and '01 AFCCGs? Or the ST implosion in the '01 AFCCG? Or Ben's 3 costly INTs (one a pick-six that essentially iced the game for the Pats) in the '04 AFCCG? Sorry, but there was a lot more to our postseason failures than just Bettis "not getting the job done when it counted." Namely, subpar QB play.

Steel Pit
08-21-2007, 05:26 AM
Please, show me the last team that is was a run first, run always team that won the SB?

Fact is, when you wear down a player like that, you get what you ask for. What we SHOULD have done, is bring in a second back to start sharing the load much earlier then 2002.

Oh yeah... and before you go to the Raven's SB win... remember, they had Trent Dilfer. No, he wasn't the greatest player. However, he could throw a 10, 20, 30 yard pass, so they did NOT have to line up against 8 or 9 in the box.

Star RB's? Of the top five, Jerome was the ONLY ONE that had to run CONSISTENTLY against that.

I'm sorry, but a RB simply can not run when he is hit at the line by two and three players time and again because everyone and thier sister knows what your going to do.

it is what happens when you step up and play a higher caliber team.



Star RB's? Of the top five, Jerome was the ONLY ONE that had to run CONSISTENTLY against that. ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????


You're telling me that the Chicago Bears with Walter Payton posed a legitimate threat to pass the football? I don't think so Preacher. Maybe in 1985 but heck, Walter Payton was nearing retirement before the Chicago Bears fielded anything that resembled a contender.

The Detroit Lions with Barry Sanders? Who quarterbacked the Lions during the Sanders regime? Oh yeah, it was Bum and then Bum and then it was, ummm, oh yeah, BUM!


These top 10 RB's also faced mulitiple defender, run stopping fronts.

The Cleveland Browns with Jim Brown definitely operated with a run first, run almost always philosophy.

And then there were the Buffalo Bills with O.J. Simpson. Man, they really frightened defenses with their passing attack, lol.

fansince'76
08-21-2007, 05:42 AM
Please, show me the last team that is was a run first, run always team that won the SB?

Star RB's? Of the top five, Jerome was the ONLY ONE that had to run CONSISTENTLY against that. ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????

You're telling me that the Chicago Bears with Walter Payton posed a legitimate threat to pass the football? I don't think so Preacher. Maybe in 1985 but heck, Walter Payton was nearing retirement before the Chicago Bears fielded anything that resembled a contender.

The Detroit Lions with Barry Sanders? Who quarterbacked the Lions during the Sanders regime? Oh yeah, it was Bum and then Bum and then it was, ummm, oh yeah, BUM!

The Cleveland Browns with Jim Brown definitely operated with a run first, run almost always philosophy.

And then there were the Buffalo Bills with O.J. Simpson. Man, they really frightened defenses with their passing attack, lol.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the top 5 RB's and the types of fronts that they were forced to run against.

Barry Sanders and the Lions won the SB? O.J. Simpson and the Bills won the SB? Seems to me neither ever sniffed a SB.

The Bears? The Bears were a one-shot wonder team who won it all on D, much like the Ravens in 2000. The SB MVP for the Bears in SB XX? Richard Dent. Payton's final numbers for that game? 22 carries for 61 yards and 0 TDs. Payton was an afterthought in that game.

The Cleveland Browns won the NFL championship in 1964, which was an entirely different era - every team in the NFL had a run-first mentality at the time. And that was besides falling to the Packers in the 1965 NFL championship game, where Jim Brown was rendered a non-factor by the Packers' D. Besides, Brown was the best RB in NFL history - I'm not even going to try to dispute that one.

I mentioned Emmitt Smith earlier - he had the luxury of running behind one of the greatest OLs in NFL history. The Steelers had very good, sometimes great lines in front of Bettis, but nothing that approached the OLs Emmitt ran behind in Dallas for the better part of the '90s.

HometownGal
08-21-2007, 08:45 AM
Barry Sanders and the Lions won the SB? O.J. Simpson and the Bills won the SB? Seems to me neither ever sniffed a SB.

The Bears? The Bears were a one-shot wonder team who won it all on D, much like the Ravens in 2000. The SB MVP for the Bears in SB XX? Richard Dent. Payton's final numbers for that game? 22 carries for 61 yards and 0 TDs. Payton was an afterthought in that game.

The Cleveland Browns won the NFL championship in 1964, which was an entirely different era - every team in the NFL had a run-first mentality at the time. And that was besides falling to the Packers in the 1965 NFL championship game, where Jim Brown was rendered a non-factor by the Packers' D. Besides, Brown was the best RB in NFL history - I'm not even going to try to dispute that one.

I mentioned Emmitt Smith earlier - he had the luxury of running behind one of the greatest OLs in NFL history. The Steelers had very good, sometimes great lines in front of Bettis, but nothing that approached the OLs Emmitt ran behind in Dallas for the better part of the '90s.

This is also for you Preacher - good posts both of you. :thumbsup:

http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/images/applause.gif

BlastFurnace
08-21-2007, 09:19 AM
I'll have to go with Preacher on this discussion. When it came to playoff games, Bettis never took over a game like an "All Time Great" running back does. That's why I think that Franco was clearly...and by a large margin...the greatest Steelers running back in the history of the franchise.

Personally, I think if Bettis had taken better care of his body (stay away from the 2nd and 3rd helpings) that he might have been able to stay healthier during his career and do more in the playoffs. How many times did we hear that he was working on his conditioning with a track coach, only to see him in training camp looking like a beached whale. The Steelers said he weighed 255, but they also said that about Fuamatu-Maafala and look at the bodies of both. Bettis had to be around 280-300.

As was stated yesterday, Bettis exceeded everyone's expectations when he was traded to us in 1996. He had a great career with the Steelers, but other than 1997, I never thought he was one of the top backs in the league.

fansince'76
08-21-2007, 09:53 AM
I'll have to go with Preacher on this discussion. When it came to playoff games, Bettis never took over a game like an "All Time Great" running back does.

I seem to recall a playoff game or two where Barry Sanders got completely stuffed - he finished one against I believe Green Bay back in '93 or '94 with NEGATIVE net yardage. Does this mean he still wasn't one of the best RBs in NFL history?

EDIT: I just looked it up - in a playoff game against Green Bay in 1994, Sanders had 13 rushes for -1 yard. In 6 career playoff games, he managed to go over the century mark once. Still not a great RB? Fact is, when your offense's passing game is a liability, even the best RB will get shut down in the playoffs when that is a team's only viable offensive weapon.

Jman
08-21-2007, 10:10 AM
I seem to recall a playoff game or two where Barry Sanders got completely stuffed - he finished one against I believe Green Bay back in '93 or '94 with NEGATIVE net yardage. Does this mean he still wasn't one of the best RBs in NFL history?

EDIT: I just looked it up - in a playoff game against Green Bay in 1994, Sanders had 13 rushes for -1 yard. In 6 career playoff games, he managed to go over the century mark once. Still not a great RB? Fact is, when your offense's passing game is a liability, even the best RB will get shut down in the playoffs when that is a team's only viable offensive weapon.

It's absolutely the truth. You cannot be one-dimensional.

tony hipchest
08-21-2007, 10:14 AM
bettis shouldnt have even been on the field in 2001. his season was clearly over due to injury and his desire pushed him out there too early. the pain injection shot knocked him out the previous week against baltimore.

bettis came up big in 97 until the coaches took the ball out of his hands and put it in the air with kordell.

even poor tomlinson had the ball taken out of his hands last year against the patriots. doesnt make him less of a back.

BlastFurnace
08-21-2007, 10:20 AM
It's absolutely the truth. You cannot be one-dimensional.

Were the 1974-5 Steelers in Super Bowl IX not one dimensional? The Vikings knew what they were going to do the entire game and couldn't stop Franco.

Jman
08-21-2007, 10:34 AM
Were the 1974-5 Steelers in Super Bowl IX not one dimensional? The Vikings knew what they were going to do the entire game and couldn't stop Franco.

I think the reference was for the days when the Bus played. It could even be said for today's game. :dang:

BlastFurnace
08-21-2007, 10:40 AM
I think the reference was for the days when the Bus played. It could even be said for today's game. :dang:

I agree, but Sanders also had his good playoff games as well. In the 1991 game against Dallas, he was great.

I'm not arguing that Bettis wasn't a great running back. He would definitely be way down my list of big game running backs though. If I had to pick one back...in his prime...for a big game, it would be Emmitt Smith...hands down.

HometownGal
08-21-2007, 02:53 PM
I could provide you with some Bettis numbers but do you really want to see those ridiculous rushing totals from the biggest games of Jerome's career? No Sir, you know how pitiful they are, and if you don't, then trust me, you don't want to see them.

Ridiculous totals? Do you know how many teams out there would have killed for a Bus in their backfield? Sure - Jerome didn't rush for 100 yards in every single game or every playoff game, but I'll take a RB who rushed for over 1,000 yards in 8 of 13 seasons (and came fairly close to 1,000 in 2 others) and scored 9 TDs in 13 post-season games, including the SB any day of the week. (Link below only illustrates 2005 post-season totals). Did he have less than stellar games? Yep, damned straight he did, but what NFL player hasn't?

Not even taking his rushing contributions to the Steelers over the years into account - I'd give my eye tooth for a total team guy who wasn't only a leader on the field, but a leader in the locker room. A giver, not a taker. That, my friend, is Jerome Bettis.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/2354/

Livinginthe past
08-21-2007, 03:37 PM
bettis shouldnt have even been on the field in 2001. his season was clearly over due to injury and his desire pushed him out there too early. the pain injection shot knocked him out the previous week against baltimore.

bettis came up big in 97 until the coaches took the ball out of his hands and put it in the air with kordell.

even poor tomlinson had the ball taken out of his hands last year against the patriots. doesnt make him less of a back.

Not only that!

Remember when Martz took the ball out of the hands of Marshall Faulk in the Pats/Rams SB?

That defensive gameplan relied on huge amounts of arrogance on Martz's behalf.

Stlrs4Life
08-21-2007, 04:37 PM
They aren't going to pay him much for a feel good book. Everyone knows he ended his career winning a Super Bowl in his home town. His comment about Kordell is garbage, but he probably knows a little more about the organization ahan anyone here since he actually PLAYED for them.




Exactly, the more contraversary he puts in it, the more books he sells, the more he sells, the more $$$$ he gets.

Only part of the book that I don't likwe is the part where he says that the Steeler Fans booed him after scoring a TD.

steelcity58
08-21-2007, 07:16 PM
Can't believe somone as classy as Jerome should be and is, or could be is bringing
up **** like this.

Man, keep that crap to yourself. Tell your dog, mother, dad, priest...but keep your mouth shut.

Elvis
08-21-2007, 08:02 PM
Boy.. what a heated debate this is.. sorry I have missed it so far. I just hope that Bettis doesnt take this thing so far that it ruins his status as one of the greatest Steelers of all time. I just think that a great running back is not always the 1,000 yard season's they have. Can someone give me the final stats of Terry Bradshaws with the TD to INT ratio. That should tell the tellin' tale about being great or not...
:tt02:

Atlanta Dan
08-21-2007, 08:22 PM
Exactly, the more contraversary he puts in it, the more books he sells, the more he sells, the more $$$$ he gets.

Only part of the book that I don't likwe is the part where he says that the Steeler Fans booed him after scoring a TD.

Were the boos during the 35 second period in early 2004 when the crowd loved Duce Staley as Duce rolled up the yards and then Cowher would bring in Bettis to score the TD?

tony hipchest
08-21-2007, 08:42 PM
they werent saying "boooo's", they were saying "duuuuuuce"

:chuckle:

delhess
08-21-2007, 10:34 PM
what a lively thread:coffee:

seriously, this is a steelers fan site, and bettis is always gonna come out on top here....

but that aside, i must side w/ preacher:tt02:

throw out all the stats, and look at the sb season. how many talks did jerome give the team before the "do-or-die" games that season. who came through in a snowy muddy field in chicago (against a great defense who was born for cold muddy days) , and helped turn year around. how can you say they would have overcome all the odds of that season, and reach a goal no other team has accomplished without one man???

no, not coach cowher, who had prepared the team, challenged them, been disapointed in them year after year.

no, not the kid qb who had stars in his eyes and was feeling invincible.

not joey talking smack before all the games.

not duce on the sidelines in his sweat pants.

not jeff hartings consistently snapping the ball and taking on the d line

not hines ward smacking defenders and catching the ball..

........ you get the point.

all of these people created a great team.... but who did it take to push everyone to the next level. to give them a reason to fight. to have tunnel vision and focus, because nothing else mattered?

everyone knew their veteran teamate was bleeding black and gold from a long tiresome career, and they knew what he wanted more than anything... to be a true champion!

that's why stats don't matter much in football. stats are meaningless if you don't win, and victory is only achieved through total teamwork. this isn't baseball folks.

Preacher
08-21-2007, 10:41 PM
this isn't baseball folks.


:sofunny::sofunny::sofunny:

Steel Pit
08-22-2007, 03:57 AM
Barry Sanders and the Lions won the SB? O.J. Simpson and the Bills won the SB? Seems to me neither ever sniffed a SB.

The Bears? The Bears were a one-shot wonder team who won it all on D, much like the Ravens in 2000. The SB MVP for the Bears in SB XX? Richard Dent. Payton's final numbers for that game? 22 carries for 61 yards and 0 TDs. Payton was an afterthought in that game.

The Cleveland Browns won the NFL championship in 1964, which was an entirely different era - every team in the NFL had a run-first mentality at the time. And that was besides falling to the Packers in the 1965 NFL championship game, where Jim Brown was rendered a non-factor by the Packers' D. Besides, Brown was the best RB in NFL history - I'm not even going to try to dispute that one.

I mentioned Emmitt Smith earlier - he had the luxury of running behind one of the greatest OLs in NFL history. The Steelers had very good, sometimes great lines in front of Bettis, but nothing that approached the OLs Emmitt ran behind in Dallas for the better part of the '90s.


And just how much did Bettis contribute to the Steelers winning Super Bowl XL. Oh I forgot, he was the emotional leader of the team, blah,blah,blah. So now you want to break the list down to only the all-time great RB's who won a Super Bowl?

Yes, Bettis was a major factor in the Steelers Super Bowl XL run. LMAO! He wasn't even the starting RB. He was basically a situational RB all season. Wasn't it Bettis who nearly cost us the game at Indianapolis? I believe that Willie Parker toted that pigskin for a Super Bowl record-longest run from scrimmage, didn't he?

As Preacher stated, he wanted me to show him a run first, run always team (excluding the Ravens) that actually won a Super Bowl. Well sorry guys, the Super Bowl XL winning Steelers WERE NOT a run first, run always team and if they had been, it would have been Willie Parker with the majority of the carries NOT BETTIS. This team did it's share of passing during the regular season and then PASSED their way through the playoffs. So go ahead and give Bettis the credit for running the Steelers to their Super Bowl championship, I could use a good laugh.


So Walter Payton and the Bears were a one shot wonder, Hey, whatever it takes to make your point Bro, while Barry Sanders and O.J. Simpson never won a Super Bowl? With that being the case then we have to automatically put Bettis amongst the upper echelon of the greatest RB's of all-time becuase Bettis got his ring. Bettis' ring is no more significant then Mike Tomzcak's 1985 Bears ring.

Steel Pit
08-22-2007, 04:04 AM
Ridiculous totals? Do you know how many teams out there would have killed for a Bus in their backfield? Sure - Jerome didn't rush for 100 yards in every single game or every playoff game, but I'll take a RB who rushed for over 1,000 yards in 8 of 13 seasons (and came fairly close to 1,000 in 2 others) and scored 9 TDs in 13 post-season games, including the SB any day of the week. (Link below only illustrates 2005 post-season totals). Did he have less than stellar games? Yep, damned straight he did, but what NFL player hasn't?

Not even taking his rushing contributions to the Steelers over the years into account - I'd give my eye tooth for a total team guy who wasn't only a leader on the field, but a leader in the locker room. A giver, not a taker. That, my friend, is Jerome Bettis.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/2354/

I would take him too "My friend", at 18th or 19th from the all-time top 20 RB's.

fansince'76
08-22-2007, 06:31 AM
And just how much did Bettis contribute to the Steelers winning Super Bowl XL. Oh I forgot, he was the emotional leader of the team, blah,blah,blah. So now you want to break the list down to only the all-time great RB's who won a Super Bowl?

Actually, no - Preacher originally requested that, not me. Funny how you give Sanders a pass for playing with at-best mediocre QBs, but you don't make that allowance for Bettis. Kordell sucked and was a walking disaster under center and it was his 3-pick games in the '97 and '01 AFCCGs more than anything else that cost us two trips to the SB, not Bettis, sorry. Fact remains Bettis never finished a playoff game with NEGATIVE net yardage.

Yes, Bettis was a major factor in the Steelers Super Bowl XL run. LMAO! He wasn't even the starting RB. He was basically a situational RB all season. Wasn't it Bettis who nearly cost us the game at Indianapolis? I believe that Willie Parker toted that pigskin for a Super Bowl record-longest run from scrimmage, didn't he?

Seems to me if a certain official would have made the correct call on Troy's INT, the game would have been over right there, but hey, that's just me. Agreed, Bettis wasn't a major on-field factor in the Steelers winning it all in '05, but I think he was a big reason the entire team as a whole stepped up it's play in a huge way the last 4 games of the regular season and throughout the playoffs that year. He WAS the inspiration for that team, whether you want to admit it or not, and IMO, that does count for something.

As Preacher stated, he wanted me to show him a run first, run always team (excluding the Ravens) that actually won a Super Bowl. Well sorry guys, the Super Bowl XL winning Steelers WERE NOT a run first, run always team and if they had been, it would have been Willie Parker with the majority of the carries NOT BETTIS. This team did it's share of passing during the regular season and then PASSED their way through the playoffs. So go ahead and give Bettis the credit for running the Steelers to their Super Bowl championship, I could use a good laugh.

Again, sorry to burst your bubble, but a league ranking of 25th in passing offense and a ranking of 5th in rushing offense suggests a run-first team. Besides, it's a team game and I tend to steer away from giving one player credit when a team wins a championship. BTW, where does FWP rank on your list of great all-time RBs?

So Walter Payton and the Bears were a one shot wonder, Hey, whatever it takes to make your point Bro, while Barry Sanders and O.J. Simpson never won a Super Bowl? With that being the case then we have to automatically put Bettis amongst the upper echelon of the greatest RB's of all-time becuase Bettis got his ring. Bettis' ring is no more significant then Mike Tomzcak's 1985 Bears ring.

Yes, Walter Payton and the Bears were a one-shot wonder - they never won the SB before '85 and they never won one again after that. Considering that Payton finished with under a 3 YPC average in SB XX suggests to me it wasn't he who won that game for the Bears. Which makes Bettis' ring just as significant as Payton's, IMO.

Atlanta Dan
08-22-2007, 08:04 AM
Team malcontent Alan Faneca chimes in to support the claim the Steelers did not provide Kordell enough support.

Steelers guard Alan Faneca thinks there is some merit to Bettis' thoughts concerning Stewart.

"Mismanaged? I definitely don't think they gave him (Stewart) the firepower," Faneca said yesterday. "They really didn't help him out a lot at the receiver position, I would definitely say that. We drafted Troy (Edwards in the first round in 1999), but that definitely didn't work out the best for everybody. I think it could be termed that way a little bit."

No mention by Faneca that the Steelers drafted Hines Ward in 1998 and, after Edwards did not seem to fix the problems at WR, the Steelers passed on Chad Penington and drafted Burress with their #1 pick in 2000.

And of course Faneca has to agree that their is no love for vets turning 30 within the Steelers organization

Bettis also writes about the "magic" age of 30, when the Steelers seem to begin phasing out players. Faneca believes there is some truth to Bettis' statement.

"I think it's definitely a regard for the organization that they keep youth and try not to get locked down on guys that are in their twilight years," Faneca said.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_523354.html

I guess we can look forward to this sort of sniping all season

fansince'76
08-22-2007, 08:50 AM
Team malcontent Alan Faneca chimes in to support the claim the Steelers did not provide Kordell enough support.

Steelers guard Alan Faneca thinks there is some merit to Bettis' thoughts concerning Stewart.

"Mismanaged? I definitely don't think they gave him (Stewart) the firepower," Faneca said yesterday. "They really didn't help him out a lot at the receiver position, I would definitely say that. We drafted Troy (Edwards in the first round in 1999), but that definitely didn't work out the best for everybody. I think it could be termed that way a little bit."

No mention by Faneca that the Steelers drafted Hines Ward in 1998 and, after Edwards did not seem to fix the problems at WR, the Steelers passed on Chad Penington and drafted Burress with their #1 pick in 2000.

And of course Faneca has to agree that their is no love for vets turning 30 within the Steelers organization

Bettis also writes about the "magic" age of 30, when the Steelers seem to begin phasing out players. Faneca believes there is some truth to Bettis' statement.

"I think it's definitely a regard for the organization that they keep youth and try not to get locked down on guys that are in their twilight years," Faneca said.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_523354.html

I guess we can look forward to this sort of sniping all season

OK, so better receivers would have fixed Kordell's lousy mechanics, his inability to read defenses, his propensity for telegraphing his passes, his deer-in-the-headlights look when under a heavy rush and his inability to hit the broad side of a barn with the football? Whatever.

tony hipchest
08-22-2007, 08:57 AM
Team malcontent Alan Faneca chimes in to support the claim the Steelers did not provide Kordell enough support.

I guess we can look forward to this sort of sniping all season

i really think he gets joy from all these little jabs.

Neither Townsend nor Faneca had a chance to review the book yesterday. Faneca says he probably won't read it, but only because "I won't have to read it. It will be read to me" by media members seeking reaction.

:sofunny: almost sounds like hes giving the media the green light. he'll be more than happy to give a "reaction".

Atlanta Dan
08-22-2007, 09:17 AM
i really think he gets joy from all these little jabs.:sofunny:

almost sounds like hes giving the media the green light. he'll be more than happy to give a "reaction".

I think Faneca's position is I gave you a chance to either deal me or do a deal and you did neither, so I am going to be saying what I damn well please all season.

Definite "cancer in the clubhouse" behavior.

Interested that Ward has held his fire on this - Ward may figure he already has enough to worry about if he plans on being in Pittsburgh in 2008

tony hipchest
08-22-2007, 09:55 AM
I think Faneca's position is I gave you a chance to either deal me or do a deal and you did neither, so I am going to be saying what I damn well please all season.

Definite "cancer in the clubhouse" behavior.

Interested that Ward has held his fire on this - Ward may figure he already has enough to worry about if he plans on being in Pittsburgh in 2008he really seems to be on a mission as opposed to just giving honest answers and being media friendly. i would hate to think he has ulterior motives to bring harm to the club but thats what it seems like.

i had hoped that as time passed and the season drew near, he would let it go. how do you think it would play out if the offensive team captain told him its time to shut up and play ball? would that be like striking a match near a powder keg?

could you imagine if ben told him that? :jawdrop:

in regards to ward, i agree. ive been wondering if the "other shoe will drop".

it would be nice to hear him say "jeromes a great friend, and id love to read his book, but i have a playbook of my own to memorize, and gamefilm of next weeks opponent to study".

that would actually be better than "no comment :coffee: "

rbryan
08-22-2007, 10:02 AM
This story will go away soon enough. He wasn't going to sell many copies of this book outside the Burgh anyway. Its a little disappointing, but I will choose to remember him steam rolling the defensive MVP in a snow storm during the SB run as my lasting memory of Jerome.

If Faneca wants to blame anyone for not getting his contract he needs to look no further than himself. He's been making comments like this for years.

BlastFurnace
08-22-2007, 10:05 AM
OK, so better receivers would have fixed Kordell's lousy mechanics, his inability to read defenses, his propensity for telegraphing his passes, his deer-in-the-headlights look when under a heavy rush and his inability to hit the broad side of a barn with the football? Whatever.

Perhaps Kordell was crying on the sideline because he had no receivers....not.

Kordell, as you stated, did all the above. If the pass was beyond a 5 yard out pattern, you just held your breath...because it was either going to be incomplete or completed to the other team.

People forget that Yancey Thigpen saved that game against New England in 1997 with an incredible sideline catch that really helped the Steelers in their playoff seeding that year. That was a terrible pass by Stewart that Thigpen pulled in.

Kordell had his moments, but so did Tomczak, Leroy Thompson, Courtney Hawkins, etc. If you play long enough, you will have moments, but unfortunately, unless your consistent, those moments don't define your career. The Kordell experiment was no better than the Mark Malone experiment of the 1980's.

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-22-2007, 10:08 AM
It sounds like Faneca is basing his opinion more on his current bitterness than on the facts...Kordell had 77 TD's and 84 Int.. in his career...granted you can add 38 Running TD's but then you have to take into consideration his 44 fumbles...which adds up to 115 TD's and 128 giveaways.

...as for Bettis...well....I love him....but he is trying to sell a book.

Neither of them will EVER convince me that Kordell was more that what we thought he was.

BlastFurnace
08-22-2007, 10:09 AM
I would like to see the Steeler coaching staff write a book on how Bettis came to camp out of shape nearly every year, ballooned up to 280-300 lbs, and if he had taken better care of his body, may not have been nearly released during the 2000 season.

fansince'76
08-22-2007, 10:10 AM
Neither of them will EVER convince me that Kordell was more that what we thought he was.

http://www.kare11.com/assetpool/images/06101711437_green-tirad-hd.jpg

Kordell was who we thought he was!

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-22-2007, 10:16 AM
http://www.kare11.com/assetpool/images/06101711437_green-tirad-hd.jpg

Kordell was who we thought he was!

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

..AND WE LET HIM OFF THE HOOK!!!!!
:toofunny::toofunny:

Atlanta Dan
08-22-2007, 10:23 AM
I would like to see the Steeler coaching staff write a book on how Bettis came to camp out of shape nearly every year, ballooned up to 280-300 lbs, and if he had taken better care of his body, may not have been nearly released during the 2000 season.

One excerpt I noted from the Trib-Review story was:

Bettis also believes the 2002 season -- when the team finished 10-5-1, and lost in the second round of the playoffs to the Tennessee Titans -- could have turned out better had the team not emphasized the passing game.

He writes: "I'll go to my grave believing that our reliance on a passing attack rather than a consistent running game is what hurt us the most that season. When you can't run the ball ... you can't control the clock and the tempo of the game. You become one dimensional, predictable."

In 2002 Bettis was horribly out of shape and by the time of the Titans playoff game was immobile. Because Bettis slacked off in 2002, Zeroue (whom Bettis apparently trashes along with Maddox) was handed the starter's job in 2003, Staley was brought in for 2004, and Bettis took salary cuts not becuase he was such a team player but because he could not make as much anywhere else.

It could not have ended better for Bettis and I will always be a fan based on the start and finish of his Steelers career, but his comments in the book remind me that Bettis was not well regarded by 2003 and certainly would not be viewed as the most beloved Steeler of recent times if he had left in 2002 or 2003.

tony hipchest
08-22-2007, 10:39 AM
post gazette has some great clips:

http://postgazette.com/pg/07234/811164-66.stm

Bettis had a secret appendectomy before the 1999 season.

"The funny thing is, the Steelers didn't want the media to know about the surgery. So, when I went to the hospital, someone told me to register under the name Tex Goldstein. That was my alias. Do I look like a Tex Goldstein?"

:toofunny:

moooove over ron mexico, theres a new sherrif in town, pardner.

TackleMeBen
08-22-2007, 10:43 AM
http://www.kare11.com/assetpool/images/06101711437_green-tirad-hd.jpg

Kordell was who we thought he was!

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

'76, you are too much...lol... :sofunny:.. you are going to come over and clean off my computer screen b/c i just spit my coffee all over it...lol.

as note to fanababy....... please stop http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u251/beautifulgirl427/horse.gif

SteelFist
08-22-2007, 10:58 AM
OK, so better receivers would have fixed Kordell's lousy mechanics, his inability to read defenses, his propensity for telegraphing his passes, his deer-in-the-headlights look when under a heavy rush and his inability to hit the broad side of a barn with the football? Whatever.

:thumbsup: I couldn't have said it better myself. Im sorry....I am pissed at Bettis..:pissed:..and it will take me some time to get over it. He is WAY off with his Kordell accusations!! Saying he blames Cowher for hindering Stewart's developement?? Can't wait to hear what Cowher has to say about that. A bunch of Bull :poop:!! Kordell was given too many chances! Just look at how many OC's were fired on his behalf!!

SteelFist
08-22-2007, 11:23 AM
i agree that kordell would have benefitted from having an actual qb coach before 2001. even the absolute best college qb prospects get a position coach in the nfl.

I don;t want to hear it. He came into the league behind Neil O'donnel. He played for a year behind Tomczak. He had his chances to learn. This is the NFL....they don't pay you to learn, they pay you to produce. You learn in H.S. and college. Hew was given more than enough time to adjust. Ben has a new OC this year, and I'll bet he has just as good a season (stat wise) as he did in 2005 or better. Its not their fault if he couldn't pick up the offense. Maddox was selling insurance....he picked it up with no problem.

Kordell was a nice guy. But nice doesn't translate to success at QB.

tony hipchest
08-22-2007, 12:20 PM
I don;t want to hear it. He came into the league behind Neil O'donnel. He played for a year behind Tomczak. He had his chances to learn. This is the NFL....they don't pay you to learn, they pay you to produce. You learn in H.S. and college. Hew was given more than enough time to adjust. Ben has a new OC this year, and I'll bet he has just as good a season (stat wise) as he did in 2005 or better. Its not their fault if he couldn't pick up the offense. Maddox was selling insurance....he picked it up with no problem.

Kordell was a nice guy. But nice doesn't translate to success at QB.well youre gonna hear it because odonnell and tomczac arent coaches, and maddox had a qb coach to help him learn and pick it up. teams do pay players to learn cause they cant produce otherwise. thats why they go to practice and thats why they study film. thats why teams pay coaches to teach the players.

whether kordell was good or sucky, i cant believe im hearing the concept of coaching and teaching being discredited.

ben only played the position for a few years before being drafted. you really think he knew everything he needed to know? i guess tom brady has it wrong when he credits his 1st qb coach (who has since died) for turning him into a nfl ready qb. its not like mike holmgren was ruining quarterbacks careers. look at all the qb's we had who werent provided a qb coach since bradshaw. not many pro bowl appearances in that group. tom clements helped get kordell to the pro bowl and the steelers the #1 seed in the conference his 1st year on the job.

the proof is in the pudding. having a qb coach helps, and most definitely doesnt hurt.

fansince'76
08-22-2007, 12:39 PM
the proof is in the pudding.

And the "puddin's" on the cake. :toofunny:

Atlanta Dan
08-22-2007, 01:06 PM
Give Bettis credit for releasing his book in the window of late summer when interest in football is taking off but there are not yet real games to discuss.

The only significance for this year's team out of the discussion of the book is it indicates to me Faneca will be holding court at his locker each week to pontificate on how the coaches and owners screwed up. To maximize his return on his new contract, his agent may tell him to stuff it or potentially scare off teams that do not need the hassle of a clubhouse lawyer on the payoll.

As T.H. said, I am waiting for the other shoe to drop and for Ward to pop off. IMO the transition to Tomlin is very fragile and there could be a lot of sniping if the Steelers do not use a soft early schedule to get off to a quick start.

SteelFist
08-22-2007, 01:41 PM
well youre gonna hear it because odonnell and tomczac arent coaches, and maddox had a qb coach to help him learn and pick it up. teams do pay players to learn cause they cant produce otherwise. thats why they go to practice and thats why they study film. thats why teams pay coaches to teach the players.

whether kordell was good or sucky, i cant believe im hearing the concept of coaching and teaching being discredited.

ben only played the position for a few years before being drafted. you really think he knew everything he needed to know? i guess tom brady has it wrong when he credits his 1st qb coach (who has since died) for turning him into a nfl ready qb. its not like mike holmgren was ruining quarterbacks careers. look at all the qb's we had who werent provided a qb coach since bradshaw. not many pro bowl appearances in that group. tom clements helped get kordell to the pro bowl and the steelers the #1 seed in the conference his 1st year on the job.

the proof is in the pudding. having a qb coach helps, and most definitely doesnt hurt.

Well then all I'm hearin' is:blah:. Did Odonnel have a QB coach?? Did Tomczak?? uummmm....NO! Ron Erhart was both the OC and QB coach then. During Kordells time Chan Gailey was the OC and QB coach ('96 & '97) and later was Gilbride. If you couldn't learn enough from them and the other coaches on that team, then you don't need to be playing the QB position...period. Did it look like Kordel needed a QB coach in '97?? NO! Enough with the excuses.

I can't believe I'm hearing about a concept that requires proffesional athletes to have a tutor. Once more, this is the NFL. Every team did not have a QB coach in case you didn't know.

I guess the proof was in the pudding when Kordell threw 2 INT's against NE and threw an INT into double coverage against the Browns causing him to be benched..huh? All of this after his Pro Bowl season (And he barely made the Pro Bowl at that). I guess Clements 2nd year on the job couldn't cut it? Please!

No one is saying that a QB coach hurts. But you are clearly making excuses for Mr. Stewart. And...uuuhh...sorry....but none of them are justifiable.

HometownGal
08-22-2007, 02:18 PM
I would take him too "My friend", at 18th or 19th from the all-time top 20 RB's.

I've never stated that he is an all time Top 5 or 10 back, but his many contributions to the Steelers over his seasons with the team cannot be played down or denied. That man played his heart out each and every game whether he gained 5 yards or 100+.

We're not going to agree here, which is fine - you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. I suppose we'll let the HOF inductee panel decide whether he is "fame worthy" or not when the time comes. Dollars to donuts sez #36 is inducted on his first nom.

Studa
08-22-2007, 02:39 PM
Bus Bus Bus, c'mon now, let's keep it to yourself...

Stlrs4Life
08-22-2007, 04:34 PM
Another part is where he Faked a knee injury in camp before the 2003 season.

tony hipchest
08-22-2007, 05:30 PM
Well then all I'm hearin' is:blah:..lol. thats cool. im not going to try and force you to believe what 32 teams, all of their executives, and most knowledgable fans in the nfl already know. if you wanna prove me wrong, feel free to list all the teams that dont have a qb coach. when kordell played, the steelers were one of a few (if that many).

this is hardly "clearly making excuses for Mr. Stewart": Originally Posted by tony hipchest
i agree that kordell would have benefitted from having an actual qb coach before 2001. even the absolute best college qb prospects get a position coach in the nfl.


hardly a "requirement", simply a common fact

but who knows, maybe 1 day you will convince someone other than yourself that players dont need coaching. oh, and you forgot to mention ray sherman on that list of great "tutors". by all means, kordell shoulda been able to reach the hall of fame with that tutelage!

"mike tomczak and chan gailey"??? :sofunny: what about kent graham?

and in case you didnt know, former SB participant and boarderline HOF'er ken anderson is bens position coach. if you think that is a waste and have a problem with it, i suggest you take it up with the rooneys and mgmt. cause im not hearing it and its hardly worth debate.

DoLeMiTe
08-22-2007, 05:40 PM
I liked Bettis when he played for the Steelers. I will probably be ordering the book soon. I'm sure it will be an interesting read...

SteelFist
08-22-2007, 07:08 PM
lol. thats cool. im not going to try and force you to believe what 32 teams, all of their executives, and most knowledgable fans in the nfl already know. if you wanna prove me wrong, feel free to list all the teams that dont have a qb coach. when kordell played, the steelers were one of a few (if that many).

this is hardly "clearly making excuses for Mr. Stewart":

hardly a "requirement", simply a common fact

but who knows, maybe 1 day you will convince someone other than yourself that players dont need coaching. oh, and you forgot to mention ray sherman on that list of great "tutors". by all means, kordell shoulda been able to reach the hall of fame with that tutelage!

"mike tomczak and chan gailey"??? :sofunny: what about kent graham?

and in case you didnt know, former SB participant and boarderline HOF'er ken anderson is bens position coach. if you think that is a waste and have a problem with it, i suggest you take it up with the rooneys and mgmt. cause im not hearing it and its hardly worth debate.

If I recall, I previously said that having a QB coach wouldn't hurt. I'm very aware that Ben has had a QB coach since he came into the league, so no need for the redundancy. Obviously the Rooney's and the coaching staff, which BTW includes a future HOFamer, didn't think there was a need for a QB's coach back then so....who are you to say different?

You wont get a debate from me about the current coaching staff, I trust the Rooneys. It is YOU my friend who is questioning their past coaching staff decisions.

Its almost laughable how you basically discredit the coaching of Gailey and Sherman. Hmmm, I'm sure all 32 teams would agree with you on that :toofunny:. Again, they were obviously qualified to coach in this league. Who are you to second guess that? I sure would love to hear what Cowher would have to say if you told him..."Hey, Gailey and Sherman wern't good enough to coach Kordell, and they couldn't help him. Why didn't you get him some extra help?" He he!

FYI, Cowher thinks very highly of Chan Gailey, as it was evident when he recommended him to the Rooney's as a candidate for the vacant HC job. But Cowher, future HOFamer, couldn't have know what he was doing right? Surely you could do better.

HometownGal
08-22-2007, 07:11 PM
:alcohol::popcorn:

tony hipchest
08-22-2007, 08:02 PM
If I recall, I previously said that having a QB coach wouldn't hurt. .


if i recall, all i previously said is kordell coulda benefitted from having an actual qb coach (i even included other steeler qb's who also woulda benefitted). you had to strongly refute that point with a "go piss up a rope" attitude.

It is YOU my friend who is questioning their past coaching staff decisions.
:jawdrop: does this mean i have to wear a scarlet letter around here from now on? i also question the rooneys drafting rivera over marino. im sure you, and many others on this board, will get over it.

Obviously the Rooney's and the coaching staff, which BTW includes a future HOFamer, didn't think there was a need for a QB's coach back then so....who are you to say different?
i am bill cowhers illegitimate son and he didnt pay my mom a dime of child support. :rolleyes:

i go by tony hipchest. nice to meet your aquaintance. and you are?

Its almost laughable how you basically discredit the coaching of Gailey and Sherman. Hmmm, I'm sure all 32 teams would agree with you on that :toofunny:. Again, they were obviously qualified to coach in this league. yeah, and barry switzer was "qualified" to coach in this league too. laugh away. using your own argument, i can assume kordell stewart was qualified to QB in this league. feel free to refute that again and turn your back on your own argument.

I sure would love to hear what Cowher would have to say if you told him..."Hey, Gailey and Sherman wern't good enough to coach Kordell, and they couldn't help him. Why didn't you get him some extra help?" He he!
cowher fired sherman and brought in a qb coach. in retrospect i think he would agree with me. i cant blame gailey for accepting a head coaching job. as great as you say he was, im suprised he couldnt lead aikman, emmitt, and irvin to another superbowl. after all he made kordell look like he didnt need a qb coach in '97 (kordells 1st year as a starting RUSHING qb).

FYI, Cowher thinks very highly of Chan Gailey, as it was evident when he recommended him to the Rooney's as a candidate for the vacant HC job. But Cowher, future HOFamer, couldn't have know what he was doing right? Surely you could do better. surely the rooneys could do better, as they proved by practically ignoring cowhers request that gailey get an interview and hiring tomlin. the rooneys bringing gailey in (for what, about 10 minutes?) was about as much of a favor as the jaguars bringing tim couch into camp for a quick look-see last week.

i wont open the can of worms of gaileys name even being mentionned, but it was clear that it wasnt ever gonna happen. i woulda thought cowher woulda thought more highly about 2 men who actually helped him win a superbowl. FYI i dont give a squat about who cowher thought should be coach if gailey was the best he could come up with.

i can do better than that.

SteelersMongol
08-22-2007, 09:02 PM
:alcohol::popcorn:

Yeah. The Bus is my all-time favorite Steelers because of what he meant to the team and the fans when he played. And I know this is usually reserved for the Bruce Lee, but the Bus is THE ONE AND ONLY when it comes to the Steelers.

He's on my list of people (which is limited to only 3 people) that I have to see before I die. :wink02:.

The Bus for President!!! :thumbsup:

delhess
08-22-2007, 09:17 PM
..AND WE LET HIM OFF THE HOOK!!!!!
:toofunny::toofunny:

lmao.. CROWN HIS A$$!

revefsreleets
08-22-2007, 09:38 PM
Kordell as myth is dismissed. See post #44. Nothing speaks louder than failure, and that's exactly what he amounted to after he left the Steelers.

As for Bettis, for the haters, I'd go as far as saying that without him we don't win the SB two years ago. Why? He came in late in the game against the Seahawks and ran the clock out. He did that a couple times in key games that year. He lined up behind an obvious running formation OL, in an obvious running situation, and ground out first downs and ran time off the clock. There is no big back in history that could have done that in his 14th year.

But it's fun to see all the misguided passion.

stlrtruck
08-22-2007, 09:57 PM
I think that Kordell did a good job setting himself back! Way more then the front office ever did.

I couldn't have said it any better myself. His whole, I'm a QB not a SLASH type player ruined his career in the NFL. Had he been more concerned about being a team player instead in the spotlight, he probably would have had more success as a Steeler and in this league.

Steel Pit
08-23-2007, 12:42 AM
I believe that Tony's motivation is geared more towards AGREEING WITH WHAT BETTIS SAID rather than actually being FOOLISH enough to defend poor Kordell Stewart.

Steel Pit
08-23-2007, 12:53 AM
Atlanta Dan
Team Owner



Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,832
Member Number: 728 Re: Bettis Faked Injury To Stay With Steelers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But even if Jerome made it all up, at least it's not dogfighting!



Yeah, it's all good. Steelers fans will always love and admire Jerome. Crap on the organization as often as you please Buddy. Lol

Straight to H E L L with you Bettis you fat, stinking, lazy a$$ bum.

Preacher
08-23-2007, 01:25 AM
You know... it is amazing how we forget certain aspects.

Kordell wasn't the second coming of Bradshaw... but his records and stats prove that he wasn't Charley Frye or Couch either...

Finished Steelers career as the all-time franchise leader in rushing yardage among QBs (2,545) and overall rushing avg. (5.1) while ranking 2nd all-time in passing yards, attempts, completions and TDs...Ranks 3rd in Pittsburgh annals in completion percentage and QB rating, but ahead of Terry Bradshaw...the team record-holder in every other passing category...Pittsburgh was 16-4 overall when Earned his 1st-career Pro Bowl selection and team MVP honors in 2001 while leading the Steelers to the AFC title game and establishing a single-season career high with 3,109 passing yards...Set the single-season franchise record for total TDs with 32 (21 passing, 11 rushing) in 1997 while leading team to its 2nd straight AFC title game in his 1st season as a starterhe threw and rushed for TDs in the same game......His 11 rushing TDs as a QB in 1997 ranks 2nd in NFL history to Patriot Steve Grogan's 12 rushing TDs in 1976...

Yeah, he had a knack for throwing the BIG interception at just the wrong time.

Why should that be any different then Mark Malone, BUbby Brister, NOD, or Tommy Maddox? Funny, he is better then any of them according to the TOTAL stats.

In the end, he was just another QB. He did a decent job as a Steelers QB. Nothing special.

Steel Pit
08-23-2007, 03:51 AM
It's absolutely the truth. You cannot be one-dimensional.

Wow, I'm so glad that I found this site because I learn something new everytime that I check in.
THANKS A LOT FELLOW! :thumbsup:

Steel Pit
08-23-2007, 04:10 AM
bettis shouldnt have even been on the field in 2001. his season was clearly over due to injury and his desire pushed him out there too early. the pain injection shot knocked him out the previous week against baltimore.

bettis came up big in 97 until the coaches took the ball out of his hands and put it in the air with kordell.

even poor tomlinson had the ball taken out of his hands last year against the patriots. doesnt make him less of a back.

Yeah poor LaDanianTomlinson. And then as fansince76 pointed out, that Barry Sanders guy was totally shutdown in a playoff game against the Packers. And then poor Jim Brown, the Packers also shut him down.

These poor RB's, all shot down in flames as they we're attempting to surpass what Jerome Bettis was ultimately going to achieve, a Super Bowl Championship. Gee whiz, if they would have just been able to step it up another level or two they would have gotten it done.

A word of advice to the aforementioned RB's. You should have eaten plenty, and I mean PLENTY of food, especially Whoppers from your local Burger King. You should have let yourself get fat, slow and sloppy, and maintained a weight of about 285 pounds. As training camp began each season, you should have whined about a bogus injury in order to get a few weeks off. As you were doing this be sure to wear a big jolly smile and treat the fans with nothing but respect. This would have kept you on the teams roster for 11 or 12 years and as the team improved they would have hauled you fat butt to the Super Bowl where you could have taken the stage and proclaimed that you were now a champion.

Buzz05
08-23-2007, 07:33 AM
Maybe I drank waayyyy too much of the Jerome Bettis Gatorade when he was here. But no matter what he says I cant get mad at the guy. He was an outstanding citizen and was always there for the fans. He loved the fans and in return the fans loved him. Unless it turns out he ran a prostitution ring out of his basement my feelings on Bus wont change. If he has something to say and complain about...let him complain. He isnt knocking the fans or the Rooneys. It seems like its past players and coaches.

HometownGal
08-23-2007, 07:47 AM
All I can say at this point is WOW......just WOW. :jawdrop:

I see someone around here has been bitten by that dreaded "what have you done for me lately" bug.

That is all.

SteelFist
08-23-2007, 08:48 AM
if i recall, all i previously said is kordell coulda benefitted from having an actual qb coach (i even included other steeler qb's who also woulda benefitted). you had to strongly refute that point with a "go piss up a rope" attitude.

:jawdrop: does this mean i have to wear a scarlet letter around here from now on? i also question the rooneys drafting rivera over marino. im sure you, and many others on this board, will get over it.

i am bill cowhers illegitimate son and he didnt pay my mom a dime of child support. :rolleyes:

i go by tony hipchest. nice to meet your aquaintance. and you are?

yeah, and barry switzer was "qualified" to coach in this league too. laugh away. using your own argument, i can assume kordell stewart was qualified to QB in this league. feel free to refute that again and turn your back on your own argument.

cowher fired sherman and brought in a qb coach. in retrospect i think he would agree with me. i cant blame gailey for accepting a head coaching job. as great as you say he was, im suprised he couldnt lead aikman, emmitt, and irvin to another superbowl. after all he made kordell look like he didnt need a qb coach in '97 (kordells 1st year as a starting RUSHING qb).

surely the rooneys could do better, as they proved by practically ignoring cowhers request that gailey get an interview and hiring tomlin. the rooneys bringing gailey in (for what, about 10 minutes?) was about as much of a favor as the jaguars bringing tim couch into camp for a quick look-see last week.

i wont open the can of worms of gaileys name even being mentionned, but it was clear that it wasnt ever gonna happen. i woulda thought cowher woulda thought more highly about 2 men who actually helped him win a superbowl. FYI i dont give a squat about who cowher thought should be coach if gailey was the best he could come up with.

:point:i can do better than that.

Uuummm, Rivera and Marino?? There’s a big difference between drafting a player and hiring a coach. Did you question that decision when Rivera was drafted? Or did you question it after Marino’s 1st SB…. Hmmm, I wonder if you questioned their decision to resign Stewart to a $27 million 5 year contract in ’99?? Let me guess…..You probably did, AFTER he was proven a failure in this league..lol.

Sorry, Barry Switzer has a ring…..nuff said. And as far as Gailey is concerned, NO ONE led Aikman, Irvin and Smith to another SB since…...I wonder who? Mmm…yeah..lol

Sure, Kordell was qualified. He was given many more chances (YEARS) than Sherman to perform at his respective job. Did he succeed?? NO. Ray Sherman was OC for what, 1 year? Please!! Try comparing players to players and coaches to coaches. And if there’s any consolation, Sherman still has a job in this league.

As I said before, having a QB coach won’t hurt. But in NO way does it guarantee better performance from the QB, as Joey Harrington and Ryan Leaf (Too name a fraction of many) are clear examples. What else is clear is that you obviously have never played organized football before. There were many OC’s that did both for years. Just as there are many position coaches that are also assistant HC’s.

Your poor attempt at refuting Gailey’s qualifications by citing his denial of employment by the Rooneys is irrelevant. The point I am making is that Cowher is a future HOF coach who thought very highly of Gailey (Who took the Steelers to the AFC championship in ’97), enough to trust him as the OC AND QB’s coach. Again, who are you to refute that?

If you think you can do better, then hey, keep on thinkin’. Because that’s all it will ever be anyway……just a thought….lol. I’m sure Dan and Art would love to hear advice from such a competent and experienced individual as yourself.

Face it dude, Kordell sucked…get over it. There wasn’t that much help in the world. As evident to his failures after your “treasured” QB coach Clemments era. Failures that include a horrible season with the Chicago Bears and his inability to unseat Kyle Boller…..KYLE BOLLER?? :rofl:

tony hipchest
08-23-2007, 09:36 AM
Face it dude, Kordell sucked…get over it. There wasn’t that much help in the world. As evident to his failures after your “treasured” QB coach Clemments era. Failures that include a horrible season with the Chicago Bears and his inability to unseat Kyle Boller…..KYLE BOLLER?? :rofl:clements was the steelers qb coach. not my "treasured" qb coach.

the topic jerome raised that is being discussed is his claim the steelers org didnt do enough to help him. and as steel pit pointed out i partially agreed with that. i didnt agree with the claim that they ran him out of town but they definitely fired him. rightfully so. if trying to make this into something it isnt will make you feel good or boost your ego, carry on.

i see the cowher and gailey love runs deep with you and that is fine. (thank God they didnt hire that old re-tread who never won anything in the nfl). gailey's and cowhers experiment of sending their qb to wr's meetings and spending half of practice with kordell running the ball and gadget plays as opposed to actually throwing it, came back to bite them at the most critical times. live by the sword, die by the sword.

this isnt to fault them. it is understandable how they and the rooneys (and a hell of alot of fans) were enamored with his pure talent, speed and atheletisizm. just like the nfl as a whole bacame awed by mike vick. but just like with mike vick, the coaches didnt know what to do with kordell either.

so anyways which team is ray sherman doing laundry for nowadays?

really, this is getting comical. you seem to be on an island where every qb comes out of college looking like brady and manning in their prime, and every coach who has ever worked for cowher deserves to be in the hall of fame, right along side him.

let me know when you wanna join us on the mainland, and we can discuss how jeromes comments may have actually been misdirected and the qb who really didnt get a fair shot was possibly jim miller. after all, until maddox he was the only qb the steelers had on the roster capable of beating kordell out of a job. and he has a superbowl ring, too.

unlike your hero switzer, i would say he done more to actually earn it such as carry a clipboard, run the scout team, and coach the great tom brady in the same way tomczak coached kordell. :chuckle:

Elvis
08-23-2007, 08:05 PM
Boy.. Steelfist sure knows how to make friends in his early posts doesnt he? Hey bud... how many super bowls did Marino play in? I thought that it was just one 1? Just wondering... you said in an earlier thread..." his 1st super bowl".. Oh.. yeah... by the way... I could have coached that Cowboys team that Schwitzer won a super bowl with... he just won with Jimmy Johnson's team/players....
:tt02:

Ohio Steeler
08-23-2007, 08:07 PM
Boy.. Steelfist sure knows how to make friends in his early posts doesnt he? Hey bud... how many super bowls did Marino play in? I thought that it was just one 1? Just wondering... you said in an earlier thread..." his 1st super bowl".. Oh.. yeah... by the way... I could have coached that Cowboys team that Schwitzer won a super bowl with... he just won with Jimmy Johnson's team/players....
:tt02:

:cheers: poor NoOb

HometownGal
08-23-2007, 09:28 PM
http://english.glendale.cc.ca.us/gilligan082703.JPG

tony hipchest
08-24-2007, 01:26 AM
Bettis mum on book details


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_523757.html

"The one thing I'm going to say about it -- I really can't talk about it -- is that I want everybody to get an opportunity to read it," Bettis said. "Nobody's been able to read it except in excerpts. You really need to read it. :chuckle: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :chuckle:

"When the book is released, I'll kind of explain my thoughts. At the end of the day it's my opinion, what I feel. I want to explain it, and if there are any questions from a public standpoint I want to address them."


in other news:

Bettis arrived unannounced to check on the progress of children in the process of building computers through The Jerome Bettis Cyberbus Computer Engineering Program, an offshoot of The Jerome Bettis Bus Stops Here Foundation.

....

"We try to bring kids in and get them involved in computers by first teaching them how to build a computer," Bettis said. "And then once they build a computer, now they learn how to actually use that computer and they get to take that computer home.

....

Bettis' foundation is sponsoring the program here and in his hometown of Detroit, with plans to "at some point, possibly" introduce it in Atlanta.

....

"I really believe it closes the digital divide that we see sometimes in the inner cities." :blah:

and the masses yell: :shout: "nobody cares about that :poop: you fat ass".



:rolleyes: (todays episode was brought to you by the letters "A" and "C".)

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/ernie20en20bert.jpg

Preacher
08-24-2007, 01:32 AM
Bettis mum on book details


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_523757.html



in other news:



and the masses yell: :shout: "nobody cares about that :poop: you fat ass".



:rolleyes: (todays episode was brought to you by the letters "A" and "C".)

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/ernie20en20bert.jpg


A and C?

But that is BUrt and Ernie?

Rubber Ducky?

Huh???

SteelFist
08-24-2007, 08:33 AM
clements was the steelers qb coach. not my "treasured" qb coach.

the topic jerome raised that is being discussed is his claim the steelers org didnt do enough to help him. and as steel pit pointed out i partially agreed with that. i didnt agree with the claim that they ran him out of town but they definitely fired him. rightfully so. if trying to make this into something it isnt will make you feel good or boost your ego, carry on.

i see the cowher and gailey love runs deep with you and that is fine. (thank God they didnt hire that old re-tread who never won anything in the nfl). gailey's and cowhers experiment of sending their qb to wr's meetings and spending half of practice with kordell running the ball and gadget plays as opposed to actually throwing it, came back to bite them at the most critical times. live by the sword, die by the sword.

this isnt to fault them. it is understandable how they and the rooneys (and a hell of alot of fans) were enamored with his pure talent, speed and atheletisizm. just like the nfl as a whole bacame awed by mike vick. but just like with mike vick, the coaches didnt know what to do with kordell either.

so anyways which team is ray sherman doing laundry for nowadays?

really, this is getting comical. you seem to be on an island where every qb comes out of college looking like brady and manning in their prime, and every coach who has ever worked for cowher deserves to be in the hall of fame, right along side him.

let me know when you wanna join us on the mainland, and we can discuss how jeromes comments may have actually been misdirected and the qb who really didnt get a fair shot was possibly jim miller. after all, until maddox he was the only qb the steelers had on the roster capable of beating kordell out of a job. and he has a superbowl ring, too.

unlike your hero switzer, i would say he done more to actually earn it such as carry a clipboard, run the scout team, and coach the great tom brady in the same way tomczak coached kordell. :chuckle:

No ego boost needed here. The first post that I quoted you sounded as though you were making an excuse for Kordell. If you really believe that he would have benefited from having a QB coach, then that is an opinion you?re entitled too. I was simply disagreeing with you.

As far as WR meetings, I am totally unaware of that. Of course the time spent away from ?QB time? has to be taken into account before you can draw such conclusions. Meaning, I doubt going to a WR meeting once a month would stunt and athletes growth at QB. But if you know or can prove otherwise, then you are far ahead of me because I knew nothing of him spending extra time with WR?s, aside from practicing gadget plays. And to set the record straight, yeah, the Cowher ?love? runs deep?not Gailey.

Obviously every QB doesn?t come out of college like Brady or Manning as evidence of Mark Rypien and Brett Farve. QB?s need time to get adjusted to the SPEED of the game as with any other position. That?s it?.This is not college all over again. Yes you can call it teaching, but the learning curve needs to be steep. As you know, most coaches allow the rookie QB to learn from the sidelines for a year. And if they feel he?s ready (If he was a 1st rounder he?s expected to be ready), then he?ll start his sophomore season. QB coaches generally help give pointers to work on mechanics. For many OC?s, that is a part of their expertise. QB coach Mark Whipple never played or coached a down in the NFL but he was hired to work with Ben. Why? Because he was hired to teach and monitor the mechanics and nuances of the QB position. Similar to what these QB?s get in college. Many OC?s can do this Tony, especially those with NFL offensive coaching backgrounds.

And excuse me, but my first post in this thread was a display of disappointment with Jerome Bettis (Although I have calmed down), so, according to your guideline, that makes me a citizen of the mainland. :usa:

SteelFist
08-24-2007, 08:55 AM
Boy.. Steelfist sure knows how to make friends in his early posts doesnt he? Hey bud... how many super bowls did Marino play in? I thought that it was just one 1? Just wondering... you said in an earlier thread..." his 1st super bowl".. Oh.. yeah... by the way... I could have coached that Cowboys team that Schwitzer won a super bowl with... he just won with Jimmy Johnson's team/players....
:tt02:

If debating on a message board within the rules is gonna prevent me from making friends on this MB then I don't need their or your friendship. I have plenty thank you. "Early posts" and "Post Count" means nothing to me, as I see it is VERY important to you and your friend who quoted you...but thats cool..do your thing. I am here to discuss all things Steelers. If it ends up in a debate, then so be it. If you don't want to read my opinion or what I have to say, then simply put me on your ignore list and move on.

The comment on Marino was an implication of sarcasm...Surely you can read between the lines...right?:rolleyes:

You say you could've coached the Cowboys to victory huh?? To you I say...:screwy:

Ohio Steeler
08-24-2007, 08:57 AM
now why cant we all just get along....

SteelFist
08-24-2007, 09:12 AM
now why cant we all just get along....

It's cool! I'm not upset with anyone here....Just a debate. :smile: Problems occur when peolple want to make more out of it.

The one thing that I get upset about is when I think of all that time spent on Kordell Stewart. And it was sparked when I read that JB accused the Steelers of setting him up for failure. Its all good though.

Dylan
08-24-2007, 08:11 PM
I cant believe the bus faked an injury just not to get cut.. im glad he did it though

83-Steelers-43
08-28-2007, 01:45 PM
Ouch......:toofunny:

Madden Column: Bettis throws others under the Bus
By: Mark Madden
08/27/2007
Email to a friendPrinter-friendly

I told you so.

I told you Jerome Bettis is a two-faced, self-serving phony, a lesser man when the cameras and microphones aren't around. I told you Bettis isn't the man he crafts himself to look like.

Your response? To vilify me and worship him. I understand. He scored a few more touchdowns than I did.

But now I've been proven right. Just like always.

In his new book, Bettis eschews loyalty and class for the sake of hype and sales. Bettis accuses the Steelers organization of setting up Kordell Stewart to fail, thus cheating the quarterback out of a big payday.

He says the Steelers cut his buddy, fullback Tim Lester, in favor of Jon Witman because Witman is a Penn State alumnus, just like running backs coach Dick Hoak.

In his most shocking revelation, Bettis admits faking an injury during the 2000 preseason because he believed the Steelers were thinking about cutting him.

It's all so low-rent. The Steelers can be cutthroat, but they certainly weren't when it came to Bettis.

Bettis' gut ballooned and his skills faded, but the Steelers' devotion to Bettis never wavered. Sure, they cut Bettis' salary a few times. The Steelers should have cut Bettis.

Instead, the team kept Bettis employed while burnishing his legacy, dragging his washed-up carcass all the way to a Super Bowl in his hometown, Detroit. Bettis was dead weight, a minimal contributor. But the Steelers got Bettis his ring.

This book is the thanks they get.

Stewart never needed much help failing. He was inconsistent from year to year, often from game to game. If anything, the Steelers indulged Stewart's shortcomings far longer than most teams would have. He was hardly "set up."

Hoak is an honorable man and a die-hard competitor, more of a real Steeler than Bettis could ever hope to be. Hoak spent 45 years with the Steelers. To accuse him of cronyism is gratuitously insulting.

Faking an injury is plain dishonest. Bettis is dishonest. Maybe NFL contracts are unfair to the player. Take it up with the players' union. That doesn't justify deceit. If the appetizers are overpriced at Bettis' North Side bistro - and they are - should customers simulate food poisoning, collapse and sue?

Bettis' loyal army of sheep is lined up to take his part. Hines Ward, Alan Faneca and Deshea Townsend are among those justifying Bettis' literary antics via mealy-mouthed sound bites.

The sycophantic Pittsburgh football media is also reporting for duty, sir! Bettis told one writer that he couldn't answer questions about the book because the publisher forbade it. When has a publisher ever encouraged an author to not hype his book shortly before it hit the shelves? But Bettis' lie was accepted without question, and happier topics quickly broached.

Give Bettis credit. He has developed strong loyalty among his minions and flunkies.

He just doesn't see loyalty as a two-way street.

As a former New York Times Best-Seller myself - Ric Flair's autobiography "To Be the Man," now out in paperback - I understand the concept of hyping a book. I understand that in this endeavor, Bettis is employed by Doubleday, not the Steelers. I understand that vanilla doesn't sell.

But I hope you understand that when you read his book, you're finally getting a look at the real Jerome Bettis.

He's selfish. He's ungrateful. He's disloyal. He's deceitful. He's manipulative. He's not the man you thought he was.

I do like his helmet cake, though.

Mark Madden hosts a sports talk show 3-7 p.m. weekdays on ESPN Radio 1250.

?Beaver County Times Allegheny Times 2007

http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18752054&BRD=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478568&rfi=6

83-Steelers-43
08-28-2007, 01:48 PM
Mark Madden better find a far away country to hide in after that article. I wonder how many death threats he received?

Atlanta Dan
08-28-2007, 01:50 PM
As a former New York Times Best-Seller myself - Ric Flair's autobiography "To Be the Man," now out in paperback :blah:

Way to establish your literary credentials Mark:sofunny:

I have some issues with Bettis but the idea the Bus was not a contributor and just along for the ride for the SB XL drive is typical Madden nonsense and an indicattion of why his bluster did not last long when he got a tryout to carry the ESPN Radio Sunday morning show several years ago.

Crushzilla
08-28-2007, 01:57 PM
As a former New York Times Best-Seller myself - Ric Flair's autobiography "To Be the Man," now out in paperback

Its like the fat ass pot calling the kettle black... Nothing screams honesty like pro wrestling...

I'm so far over Mark Madden I won't say anything else, but this.

Jerome Bettis is a Pittsburgh hero. Sometimes he had to do things that he maybe didn't want to. But at least he built his reputation on grit and not on slander and garbage, like Madden.

Bettis is famous. Madden is infamous.

Madden has buried himself so far gone at this point that he's like the Marilyn Manson of sports reporting. Operation shock and awe.

I think its adorable...

HometownGal
08-28-2007, 02:10 PM
I wonder how many death threats he received?

No matter how many, it couldn't be near enough.

Separated at birth . . . .

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/2005/0908/4949931_240X180.jpg

AND

http://www.wildrecipes.com/images/food_pigs_face.jpg

stlrtruck
08-28-2007, 03:35 PM
You know what who cares about the whos, whats, and whens listed in Bettis' book. Madden is just jealous because people in Steelers Nation are more in love with Jerome then they ever have been with him!

revefsreleets
08-28-2007, 06:25 PM
As much as I usually disagree with Madden, he actually makes a couple good points here. Not all his points are valid, and some do really sound like sour grapes, but a few things he said actually ring true, which is really unusual.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
08-28-2007, 07:08 PM
Taking major heat and making major bucks on his book

tony hipchest
08-28-2007, 07:26 PM
WOOOOOOOOO!

- autobiagrophy of ric flair as penned by mark madden. :chuckle:

As much as I usually disagree with Madden, he actually makes a couple good points here. Not all his points are valid, and some do really sound like sour grapes, but a few things he said actually ring true, which is really unusual.such as?

please dont tell me this is a "good point":

Bettis' loyal army of sheep is lined up to take his part. Hines Ward, Alan Faneca and Deshea Townsend are among those justifying Bettis' literary antics via mealy-mouthed sound bites.

or this (as funny as it was):

dragging his washed-up carcass all the way to a Super Bowl in his hometown, Detroit. Bettis was dead weight,

granted the appetizers are expensive at the Grille 36, but the last thing i want out of a sports article is to hear some fat ass, bitch and whine about having to pay 7 bucks for a HUGE plate of nachos at a nice restraunt...

i might as well listen to michael moore cry about the price of popcorn at the movies and whine that they dont put enough butter and salt on it, while he is attempting to discuss/critique the merits of a recent movie.

83-Steelers-43
08-28-2007, 07:29 PM
As much as I usually disagree with Madden, he actually makes a couple good points here. Not all his points are valid, and some do really sound like sour grapes, but a few things he said actually ring true, which is really unusual.

I agree. I'm not a Madden fan at all. But I'm with you on this one. And as you stated, I would like to stress that "not all his points are valid" in this article, but IMO he's not too far off on some points.

revefsreleets
08-28-2007, 07:37 PM
I still like Bettis a thousand times more than I like Madden, so his attempt to pull himself up by dragging Bettis down didn't work, at least with me.

83-Steelers-43
08-28-2007, 07:47 PM
so his attempt to pull himself up

A construction crane is unable to do so, do you think he can?

Steel Pit
09-03-2007, 02:11 AM
WOOOOOOOOO!

- autobiagrophy of ric flair as penned by mark madden. :chuckle:

such as?

please dont tell me this is a "good point":



or this (as funny as it was):



granted the appetizers are expensive at the Grille 36, but the last thing i want out of a sports article is to hear some fat ass, bitch and whine about having to pay 7 bucks for a HUGE plate of nachos at a nice restraunt...

i might as well listen to michael moore cry about the price of popcorn at the movies and whine that they dont put enough butter and salt on it, while he is attempting to discuss/critique the merits of a recent movie.

Tony you would argue with Jesus Christ. I'm glad to see that the Madden article was posted in this thread. It soldifies my earlier points. I'm no huge Madden fan but I'm willing to say that he has more access to the Steelers than anyone of us.

GutterflowerSteel
09-03-2007, 05:52 AM
The Bus is making the rounds with all of the talk shows and will be on a lot this week. I don't know if this was posted in another thread or not but here are his upcoming tv appearances:

Tues 9/4
Live With Regis and Kelly

Wed 9/5 Leno

Thur 9/6
Tavis Smiley on PBS

and I also came across this:

Thur 9/13 on Leno
Terry Bradshaw

:tt02:

The Duke
09-03-2007, 10:25 AM
The Bus is making the rounds with all of the talk shows and will be on a lot this week. I don't know if this was posted in another thread or not but here are his upcoming tv appearances:

Tues 9/4
Live With Regis and Kelly

Wed 9/5 Leno

Thur 9/6
Tavis Smiley on PBS

and I also came across this:

Thur 9/13 on Leno
Terry Bradshaw

:tt02:

Damn, no Letterman? well, I guess I can watch him on regis and Kelly.......

Atlanta Dan
09-03-2007, 11:21 AM
Damn, no Letterman? well, I guess I can watch him on regis and Kelly.......

The Bus only gets Leno because of the NBC connection - he is yesterday's news as far as major network shows are concerned

Maybe #! Notre Dame fan Regis and the Bus can discuss the Georgia Tech game:sofunny:.

The Smiley interview may be interesting since I assume that interview may sort through the issue of how the Steelers allegedly failed to support Kordell

StinkyB
09-03-2007, 07:12 PM
Bettis is going to be another Rod Woodson. A few busted attempts are restaurants and bars, a book, some autograph shows, etc.

Broadcasting won't pan out either.

fansince'76
09-03-2007, 08:22 PM
I'm no huge Madden fan but I'm willing to say that he has more access to the Steelers than anyone of us.

You mean at his new gig writing for the Beaver County Times? I doubt it. The guy's a third-rate hack writing for a second-rate paper. The guy couldn't even cut it at the Post-Gazette where such luminaries as Ron Cook and Bob Smizik reside. That tells me a lot right there.

Preacher
09-04-2007, 01:25 AM
Bettis is going to be another Rod Woodson. A few busted attempts are restaurants and bars, a book, some autograph shows, etc.

Broadcasting won't pan out either.

I am not too sure about that.

Bettis has a great personality that seems to carry. The problem is, he has to have the right people around him.

StinkyB
09-04-2007, 07:40 AM
I am not too sure about that.

Bettis has a great personality that seems to carry. The problem is, he has to have the right people around him.


I think in the long run he isn't articulate enough to carry the commentating any further than he has. Sure, in the beginning it was cute to have the Bus on a pre-game show, but does he really add to the entertainment?

i don't think so, but that is only my opinion.

alittlejazzbird
09-04-2007, 10:02 AM
You mean at his new gig writing for the Beaver County Times? I doubt it. The guy's a third-rate hack writing for a second-rate paper. The guy couldn't even cut it at the Post-Gazette where such luminaries as Ron Cook and Bob Smizik reside. That tells me a lot right there.

THANK YOU. You hit that part right on the head....in terms of his broadcasting/writing, I despise Mark Madden beyond words. The scathing comments implying that Jerome Bettis is not what he seemed to fans just REEK of vengeful, petty jealousy. I'd bet that long ago, Jerome saw Madden for exactly what he is, called him on it (or just plain refused to have anything to do with him), and now Madden wants to get a little back in order to feel better about his pathetic life. It's far from the first time he's ranted on about stupid stuff like that.

Even Ben, who had the previous misfortune to live next door to Madden, probably moved off Washington's Landing partly to get away from Madden's drooling sycophantic worship -- that's the kind of man-crush that can quickly make a guy like Madden turn viscious when the object of his obsession does anything to tick him off.

News flash, Mark....none of us are 100% what we seem. We all craft images to put out there in front of the outside world. Bettis is like all the rest of us -- part good guy, part not-so-good-guy. Except maybe you; I'm not so sure there's any "good guy" in there.

alittlejazzbird
09-04-2007, 10:04 AM
I cant believe the bus faked an injury just not to get cut.. im glad he did it though

I'm sure this has been clarified before, but just to make it crystal clear -- Jerome did not fake an injury. He faked the timing of the injury in order to protect his status on the team. He pretended that the injury actually happened during training camp, when in reality it had happened the previous season, he'd had surgery afterwards, and was not close to 100% by the time training camp arrived.

Mosca
09-04-2007, 10:16 AM
Listening to Mike & Mike this morning, Golic made the point that it works both ways. There is pressure to NOT declare an injury, and you might have signed off on an injury and then get cut. Golic says that is exactly what happened to him.

It's part of what guys have to do because contracts are not guaranteed. Golic made the point that a lot of the behind the scenes stuff is not pretty, but there it is. the knife cuts both ways, and both the team and the players try to stretch the lines to protect themselves sometimes.

In Golic's case, he had a knee injury that was about 75%, but he was trying to make the team; when the doctors asked him after the examination what he wanted to do, he said he wanted to give it a go, he wanted to try and practice on it. He signed the waiver, and as soon as he walked out of the door of the examination room, the Turk was standing right there waiting for him. So he got cut while injured, but if he'd have known he was going to get cut, he would have said the knee was dicey and he wouldn't have signed the waiver.

To me, if ex-players say it is not an issue, then it isn't an issue. Next.


Tom

alittlejazzbird
09-04-2007, 10:31 AM
Listening to Mike & Mike this morning, Golic made the point that it works both ways. There is pressure to NOT declare an injury, and you might have signed off on an injury and then get cut. Golic says that is exactly what happened to him.

Tom

I heard that segment of Mike & Mike this morning, too. I agree with Golic, and with Tom. At some point, you gotta think of yourself, and do what you can do in the name of self-preservation. Loyalty means very little in an employer-employee relationship nowadays. You take care of yourself first and foremost, and think of the company later.

I've done it myself, as a professional musician in a business where everyone is almost immediately replaceable, regardless of talent. I've taken steroids to quickly recover from laryngitis brought on by the flu when a big gig was coming up and I was in danger of being replaced (only did that once, though, a long time ago - the side effects were terrible); I've most definitely popped a beta blocker or two to slow my heart rate and win an audition over a less experienced and frightened, but younger and better-looking colleague.

As usual, I think the media are making a much bigger deal out of this than most fans. If writing about this stuff sells a few more books for Jerome, then good for him.

While on Mike & Mike this morning, Jerome predicted the Steelers to be one of the elite teams in the AFC this year, BTW.

83-Steelers-43
09-04-2007, 10:57 AM
I think in the long run he isn't articulate enough to carry the commentating any further than he has. Sure, in the beginning it was cute to have the Bus on a pre-game show, but does he really add to the entertainment?

i don't think so, but that is only my opinion.

Ever see his local show? Absolutely horrible. I tend to try and watch every local sports show (except Fedko), but it's hard watching that one. It's painful.

It also doesn't help watching Bob Pompeani salivate over the guy during the whole show.

fansince'76
09-04-2007, 11:06 AM
I still say if CBS can keep this joker around, why will Bettis not last with NBC?

m98kyR85pBA

Sounds like Mushmouth from "Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids."

tony hipchest
09-04-2007, 11:12 AM
i guess jeromes book comes out today. heres my prediction.

people will buy the book, expecting to see all the mud that has been flung, and all the dirt and deep dark secrets within the steelers org.

however i think all the dirt and jucy stuff has all been released in these little clips weve been reading. all in all, im betting the book will be mostly hunky dory, lovie dovie, tales of life with the steelers and how much he loves the city of pittsburgh, all of their fans, the team, and the great opportunity they gave him to be where he is today.

i think alot of people will walk away saying "thats it?".

it seems like it will be more about personal trials and tribulations and accomplishments, as opposed to a behind the scenes look into the locker room.

i am mostly suprised so much has been made of what he said about kordell and virtually nothing about him dealing drugs.

BlastFurnace
09-04-2007, 11:42 AM
I don't have a problem with what Bettis did with lying about his injury.

I do have a problem with him throwing Cowher under the bus in regards to Kordell though.

He's still an all time great Steeler regardless.

HometownGal
09-04-2007, 11:49 AM
The world has fast become dog eat dog. The way I look at this entire belabored issue is - hey, if you want to spend the moola and read the book, more power to you. If you don't - you can buy a few 6 packs for what the book would've cost ya and find something else to do with those couple of hours of your life.

I'm still gonna respect the Bus for his accomplishments while wearing the black and gold and short of him pulling a Vick, a Ray Ray or an O.J. - nothing is going to change my opinion of him.

StinkyB
09-04-2007, 03:56 PM
Ever see his local show? Absolutely horrible. I tend to try and watch every local sports show (except Fedko), but it's hard watching that one. It's painful.

It also doesn't help watching Bob Pompeani salivate over the guy during the whole show.


almost as bad as watching Gumbel bat his eyelashes at Collinsworth.

(I think I just threw up in my mouth)

83-Steelers-43
09-04-2007, 03:57 PM
almost as bad as watching Gumbel bat his eyelashes at Collinsworth.

(I think I just threw up in my mouth)

<---------- Just DID throw up in my mouth.

It's like watching Gumbel throw softballs to Pacman Jones.

Dynasty
09-04-2007, 07:47 PM
I think some of the stuff might have been overblown... in a chat on ESPN today, he had nothing but good things to say abiut the team and organization... he thinks we'll win the division. They also posted an excerpt from the book.



The Bus

On game week I would only practice on Thursday and Friday, sometimes only on Friday.

Saturdays weren't any fun, though. Even with the limited practice schedule, my knee would swell. So every Saturday a team doctor would come in and drain the knee. The needle was as long and thick as a No. 2 pencil. Think about that for a minute. Then the doctor would extract all sorts of pus, blood, and little pieces of cartilage.

Yeah, it hurt. Damn right it did. But if I wanted to play, that's what I had to do. Pain is part of the game. It's as much a part of the game as the crowds or the Miller Lite commercials or the TV cameras. If you can't endure pain, you can't play in the NFL.

I let USA Today's Jarrett Bell, whom I've known for a long time, use me as a centerpiece for a story he was doing on the toll an NFL season takes on your body. He saw it all. My purple ankle. My bruised butt. The red welts on my back. The scars. The scratches and gashes on my arms and legs. The torn tendons in my thumbs. The ring finger that is missing a chunk of flesh.

He saw me try to get out of bed that morning. It took forever. I told him that sometimes I couldn't walk down the stairs in my house. Instead, I had to sit on the top step and very, very slowly slide my way down on my butt.

This was the life I had chosen, so I wasn't about to complain. But I don't think the average NFL fan has any idea what it takes to play the game when you're injured. Broken ribs are one of the worst injuries. I know, because one time I broke three ribs, which is a pretty rare thing. Usually you just break one, but I had the trifecta.

You can get an X-ray to detect the breaks. But an X-ray is useless when it comes time for the doctor to inject you with the painkillers necessary to play in a game. It's not like he can look at the X-ray and connect the dots. It doesn't work that way.

No, you have to raise your arm and then he sticks a needle in there, taps on the bone with the needle point to find the exact spot of the fracture, injects the painkiller, and then removes the needle. Then he gets a new needle, inserts the needle, taps on the next rib bone, injects, and then removes. And then he gets another needle, inserts, taps, injects, removes.

And did I mention that you can't move while he's doing this? If you move, and the needle jabs too deep, he could puncture your lung.

Those painkilling shots were a necessary evil. With broken ribs, the chances of them breaking off and puncturing something were very small, so it was an acceptable risk for me. The possibility of me injuring them more was tiny.

But I would never take a painkiller in my knee or hamstrings. Those are parts of the body where you need to feel the pain. If you can't, then a sprained ligament might turn into a torn ligament.

My teammates and coaches never pressured me to take painkilling shots. But there is an unspoken understanding about playing with injuries in the NFL.

A coach and the other players need to know they can count on you. If a guy doesn't take a painkiller, he's labeled as soft. They don't know if they can truly depend on you.

Me and pain had a great relationship. We always found a way to work it out. An injury might hurt like hell, but my threshold for pain was pretty high.

The next season, in a Dec. 2 game against the Minnesota Vikings, Bettis suffered a severe groin injury. But that isn't the real reason he missed the Steelers' AFC divisional playoff game against the Baltimore Ravens.

I didn't know it at the time, but I had torn 30 percent of my groin muscle from the bone. At first, the pain was intense. But once it settled down I thought I could go back in. I tried, but the longer I played the more it hurt. Something was seriously wrong.

This was a rough one because time and rest were the only things that could heal that type of injury. But I didn't have the luxury of time. The playoffs started in January and no way was I going to miss the postseason.


Jerome Bettis talked with Mike and Mike about a time he faked a knee injury to secure a roster spot, calling it the dirty side of football that people don't see.

The killer is that I was so dialed in at the time. I had 1,072 yards and was leading the league in rushing when I got hurt. With five regular season games left to play, I would have finished somewhere between 1,400 and 1,600 yards for the season.

Instead, I sat. I had no choice.

While I was on the sideline, we won four of those last five games and finished 13-3 for the season. Ray Lewis and the Ravens were our opponent in the divisional playoffs.

As I warmed up for the Ravens game I still felt a little twinge. It wasn't terrible, but just to be on the safe side I went to our team doctor, Dr. James Bradley, and asked him if he would give me a painkilling shot. So he gave me the shot. No problem.

I went back out to the field and as I was walking, I caught my cleats on the grass and kind of tripped. "That's the weirdest thing," I said to myself. Then I tried to jog a little bit and I tripped again. And then again.

Something wasn't right. So I decided I better get in the locker room and sit down for a few minutes. I was feeling crazy and I didn't know what was going on.

At Heinz Field you have to walk up some steps to get to the Steelers locker room. As I made my way up those first few steps my left leg went out on me and I crashed to the ground.

"What the hell?" I thought.

Somehow I got up those stairs, but with each passing second my leg was becoming less and less functional. When I saw Dr. Bradley in the training room I told him it felt like my whole leg was going to sleep.

Suddenly I saw the panic in Dr. Bradley's eyes and he started to tear up.

"Doc, what's wrong?" I said.

"Jerome, the medication must have struck your femoral nerve. Your whole leg is going numb."

I couldn't believe it. "How long will it be numb?"

"Eight hours," he said.

Eight hours meant I couldn't play in the game. Eight hours meant my season could be done if the Ravens beat us. It was the sickest feeling I've ever had.

I started crying like a baby. Dr. Bradley started crying like a baby. We couldn't help it. He kept telling me how sorry he was, and I kept thinking, "It's a playoff game -- one of the biggest games of my life -- and this happens to me?"

It was an accident, of course. When he gave me the shot in the groin -- at the place where I told him to put the needle -- the medicine bled down into the femoral nerve. Gravity.

After our crying session, Dr. Bradley had to break the news to Coach Cowher.

"Will we have him back by the start of the second half?" Coach Cowher said.

"Hopefully we'll have him back by tonight," said Dr. Bradley.

It didn't take long for the news to spread through the locker room. I could hear the whispers as my teammates told one another what had happened. So one by one my guys started making their way to the training and gave me a little nod or pat on the back. I couldn't get up -- by then my leg was completely numb -- so I just nodded back and tried to hold back the tears.

Coach Cowher called everybody up to the middle of the locker room and gave one of the best speeches I've ever heard.

"When a teammate is down," he said, "you have to pick him up. Jerome wants to be out there with you guys, but he can't this time. So you have to go out there and take care of business for him."

I couldn't help it; I broke into tears again. In fact, the whole team got caught up in it. It was such an emotional moment, such a compelling speech. You could almost feel the energy in the room as Coach finished talking to the team.

And then they went out and destroyed Baltimore, 27-10. I watched the whole thing on TV in the locker room. I was so proud of them. We were moving on to the AFC Championship against the Patriots.

Preacher
09-04-2007, 11:15 PM
I think I will definitely buy and read the book!!

Preacher
09-04-2007, 11:16 PM
i guess jeromes book comes out today. heres my prediction.

people will buy the book, expecting to see all the mud that has been flung, and all the dirt and deep dark secrets within the steelers org.

however i think all the dirt and jucy stuff has all been released in these little clips weve been reading. all in all, im betting the book will be mostly hunky dory, lovie dovie, tales of life with the steelers and how much he loves the city of pittsburgh, all of their fans, the team, and the great opportunity they gave him to be where he is today.

i think alot of people will walk away saying "thats it?".

it seems like it will be more about personal trials and tribulations and accomplishments, as opposed to a behind the scenes look into the locker room.

i am mostly suprised so much has been made of what he said about kordell and virtually nothing about him dealing drugs.

yep. I think it will be the same. Everyone will finish and say.. Huh? That was the issue?

shutdown
09-04-2007, 11:47 PM
yep. I think it will be the same. Everyone will finish and say.. Huh? That was the issue?

Exactly. Bettis during his ESPN interview today after a couple of questions regarding the heat he's taking made it clear, this is a book about his life, his views and his opinions. We've all had times in our jobs were we thought we might have been under the gun/radar.

Cowher said today that Bettis wouldnt have been cut, but Bettis though he might. Thats what he thought. He also thought Kordell was worth a shit. Cant blame him for thinking that and questioning his boss. I do it all the time, but the big man always has the final say.