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View Full Version : Offense not as good as we think it is going to be?


FastWillieParker39
08-23-2007, 02:29 PM
Now I'll admit, when I first heard about this new offense I was excited. To me it sounded like we were going to have a more balanced attack where we were going to pass more. Also, more players like Ward and Holmes were going to get more opportunities to shine.

However, as I'm reading more articles and watching the preseason game I'm wondering if this offense is going to be as good as we think it's going to be. I mean the oline is still a big mystery, Ben while healthy won't be able to shine if the oline doesn't block for him, and Parker just got off of a injury. Add to the fact that I think Arians might be doing too much with the offense. I like that we are going to pass more but I'm still skeptical on whether or not I like Ben with that much control. I know Ben is a good QB, but with the 23 INT's last year, I'm wondering whether or not he can come back and play up to his level.

I don't know, to me it just seems like this offense could be a big let down and it could cost us big time (as in a playoff birth).

Thoughts?

TackleMeBen
08-23-2007, 02:35 PM
everything will be fine with the offense... last year we all know that ben was rushed back too soon and that was the reason for the 23 INTs.

faith my young jedi ...lol

Sharkissle29
08-23-2007, 02:55 PM
what was that one year that our starting offense only scored (add small number here)...i believe we went 15-1 that year, correct me if im wrong. Im not worried at all, its preseason haha. i have confidence in big ben and the offense

ChronoCross
08-23-2007, 03:02 PM
Reading into pre season and jumping the gun on well this might not be is good is the wrong way to look at it. Many times ,, well 1000's of games from the first pre season game to now has had offense after offense look not so good to bad but when season starts thats when you start to watch and see and then by mid season you get a ruff ideal if it will work are not.

And when you install a new offense it might take more then just 1 year to get it worked in and running smoothly. You cannot give up on it after a few pre season games. Make a rush to judge will only have you guessing until the season starts.

Sit back relax, let the new coaches do there job..

fansince'76
08-23-2007, 03:08 PM
And the Pats are 0-2. My point? It's only preseason. Relax, folks.

delhess
08-23-2007, 03:12 PM
i must agree that this is only preseason. lets wait and see what happens when the season starts. willie was sooo good last year (i just watched a recap of his performance last year) and that can change everything. keep a defense reeling from a tough running game, and then sneek a 50 yard pass to holmes on 2nd down.... the sky is the limit if everyone stays healthy.

that said, expect some adjustment, lots of new coaching staff and plays will do that.

Jman
08-23-2007, 03:19 PM
i must agree that this is only preseason. lets wait and see what happens when the season starts. willie was sooo good last year (i just watched a recap of his performance last year) and that can change everything. keep a defense reeling from a tough running game, and then sneek a 50 yard pass to holmes on 2nd down.... the sky is the limit if everyone stays healthy.

that said, expect some adjustment, lots of new coaching staff and plays will do that.

:i agree:

Awesome sig too delhess.

Atlanta Dan
08-23-2007, 03:22 PM
If you go by preseson offenses, Green Bay whacking Seattle 48-13 last weekend makes the Packers the prohibitive favorites in the NFC.

If you believe that there are some finance companies that have some unbelievable buys on subprime mortgages that they would like to sell to you.

Getting out of preseson with no major injuries is about all you can ask for.

jjpro11
08-23-2007, 03:43 PM
if nobody else is going to say it, then i will... i am worried about the offense. the oline couldnt pass block for shit last year and heading into this season, it doesnt look any better. no hartings, RT is still undecided, center isnt decided yet, and faneca isnt happy... i dont care about preseason performance, nothing we did in the offseason would lead me to believe this oline will be a stellar group, or at least keep ben healthy for an entire season. i hope im wrong. but i will wait and see.

FastWillieParker39
08-23-2007, 03:49 PM
Thats another one of my worries I forgot and it is trying to get used to a new system. Every offensive player in the past has been so used to the run first system that it might take them a while to hit all cylanders.

At the same time we don't need a great offense to win games, if we limit turnovers this year (which KILLED us last year) we will have a good season because the defense is top 10.

Atlanta Dan
08-23-2007, 03:50 PM
if nobody else is going to say it, then i will... i am worried about the offense. the oline couldnt pass block for shit last year and heading into this season, it doesnt look any better. no hartings, RT is still undecided, center isnt decided yet, and faneca isnt happy... i dont care about preseason performance, nothing we did in the offseason would lead me to believe this oline will be a stellar group, or at least keep ben healthy for an entire season. i hope im wrong. but i will wait and see.

The offense was even worse in 2005 preseson, so much so that Ed.B. of the P-G wrote at the start of the 2005 season that Ben's playoff and subsequent pre-season performances had Steelers officials wondering if he was a 10 week wonder who had fallen back to earth.

Let's wait until the second half of the Browns game, when some of us will be suitably intoxicated, to start worrying. If they lose in Cleveland I promise you this board will have some "Whiz Was The Right Choice"" threads by 4:30 that afternoon.

HometownGal
08-23-2007, 03:55 PM
I think it's way too soon to throw in the towel on this offense or Arians. We've only played 3 preseason games and adjusments are going to be made after the final cuts - the coaches will then know for certain who and what they have to work with and gameplan accordingly. Balance is the key to any successful offensive attack and remember - FWP just played his first preseason game this past Saturday night. The "left hand" and the "right hand" must be in sync. I don't think it's fair at this point to shed dark light upon the offense or Arians - it's just too early to make a call either way imho.

delhess
08-23-2007, 03:59 PM
don't forget that field position killed us because of poor special teams play last year. by all appearances we drafted a kick ass punter, and tomlin has been focusing on special teams in training camp.

i'm not saying we're goin to the superbowl, but there is a lot of positives this year.

WV-SteelerFan
08-23-2007, 04:07 PM
One word...

PRESEASON!
:wink02::rolleyes::wink02:

Preacher
08-23-2007, 04:10 PM
Okay.. Let's break this down a bit more, and ask why or why not we should worry coming out of the preseason.

1. CB's. Last year, pitiful. There are some that blame the DL and LB's, some that blame the scheme (standing to far off the LB's and not jamming them on the line), and some that blame the CB's).

In Pre-season, when the CB's have been in position, they have done a good job defending this preseason, in the "personal battles." What we can learn from that from preseason, is that it is possible our CB's have learned how to defend 1 on 1 against a receiver when they are both going up for the ball. However, there have been times the WR's have been wide open. Why? That we cannot answer in preseason. It may be that LeBeau doesn't want to unveil his new schemes. It may be simply a lack of game-planning in the preseason.

So for the CB's, what we CAN take away from the preseason is that they have improved in the physical battle for the ball. everything else we have to wait for the reg. season to wonder about.

2. OL. Last year, horrible. The right side of the line resembled the French army in WWII (Sure, come right this way!)

In preseason, Simmons looks like he has done a good job stepping back up to be the player we drafted. Starks has struggled and Willie Colon may take over for him. Again, these are personal battles. I haven't see any DL or LB come through the line at the center position (ST excepted). Thus, I am not worried about that. All we ask the C to do is not allow the D in. The holes are opened up by the Guards and tackles, not the center. So if he locks up his guy and gets the ball to the QB, he is done. We had one issue with a bad snap, but that is it.

So, for the OL, what we have learned is that Starks has not learned how to out-muscle or out-work opposing players in personal battles. But Colon has done a fine job. Thus, our Oline should be fine, but if ANYONE gets hurt, we are in trouble.

The Duke
08-23-2007, 04:12 PM
Just like the defense, in preseason they're not showing all they will do during the season, it is a vanilla offense, and we saw a preview of it against the saints and some other flashes against skins and packers. The o line problems obviously won't be all gone, but we are shifting some men around to see where they fit better, like starks(when is he leaving anyway?), as long as the line protects Ben for a few more seconds everything will be alright

SteelerFanInCA
08-23-2007, 05:34 PM
I think we need to sit back and relax because it's only the preseason. We have barely scraped the surface of the playbook. You can't expect us to show all our plays during preseason.

Everything will come together just fine. There's alot of talent on the team.

jjpro11
08-23-2007, 06:10 PM
The offense was even worse in 2005 preseson, so much so that Ed.B. of the P-G wrote at the start of the 2005 season that Ben's playoff and subsequent pre-season performances had Steelers officials wondering if he was a 10 week wonder who had fallen back to earth.

Let's wait until the second half of the Browns game, when some of us will be suitably intoxicated, to start worrying. If they lose in Cleveland I promise you this board will have some "Whiz Was The Right Choice"" threads by 4:30 that afternoon.

i already said i dont care about what they do in preseason. on paper though, i just dont know how its going to get better... i hope arians has schemed for potentially a bit of a weaker oline.. all this long ball talk is nice, and id love to see ben air it out.. but its also what made the raiders offense one of the worst ever. they kept trying to go for the long ball but just didnt have the protection to hold off long enough. we are nothing near the raiders, even though they did beat us with a concussed ben.. but arians has to be careful with what we have right now.

steelpride12
08-23-2007, 07:54 PM
Well see how we do against the Eagles thats all!

PalmerSteel
08-23-2007, 08:04 PM
if your not worried at least a little bit about our offense, then your just blind. there is some cards stacked against them. new HC, new OC, new playbook, new style, questionable reliability/consistancy on the o-line. these are all facts not opinions. now do i think the steelers can overcome them and be really good on offense this year? yes because i believe ben will step his game up and the line will step it up, but their has to be worries.

Elvis
08-23-2007, 08:55 PM
Palmersteel I kind of agree with ya bud. Our offense hasnt looked good at all so far to me except for the very 1st play action play that Ben hit Cedric Wilson on. Wilson had 4 catches for 99 yards in that game and hasnt had a catch in 2 games now, whats up with that? Wilson had grumbled earlier that week about not getting his chance to catch passes and then they threw the ball his way and he made the best of it and now the last 2 games he hasnt had any chances...And what has happened to passing more to the TE's? They say they are gonna do it more this season but maybe the Head Coach dont think that they need to practice them during the preseason I guess..
:tt02:

Stlrs4Life
08-23-2007, 10:39 PM
Where's tony at when you need him?

stlrtruck
08-23-2007, 10:45 PM
I'm worried about our offense, for several reasons:
1 - The o-line has been suspect, last year they played a few games totally as one (like they did in the 2005 playoff race)
2 - Ben is back from a year that was his worst as a QB. I'm wondering if he still has lingering affects of that.
3 - After Hines and Santonio, who is our #3 guy?

But on a positive note, I'm thrilled with the competitiveness taht we have at RB!!

SteelCityMan786
08-23-2007, 10:49 PM
Now I'll admit, when I first heard about this new offense I was excited. To me it sounded like we were going to have a more balanced attack where we were going to pass more. Also, more players like Ward and Holmes were going to get more opportunities to shine.

However, as I'm reading more articles and watching the preseason game I'm wondering if this offense is going to be as good as we think it's going to be. I mean the oline is still a big mystery, Ben while healthy won't be able to shine if the oline doesn't block for him, and Parker just got off of a injury. Add to the fact that I think Arians might be doing too much with the offense. I like that we are going to pass more but I'm still skeptical on whether or not I like Ben with that much control. I know Ben is a good QB, but with the 23 INT's last year, I'm wondering whether or not he can come back and play up to his level.

I don't know, to me it just seems like this offense could be a big let down and it could cost us big time (as in a playoff birth).

Thoughts?

Well, here's the thing. last time we had an offense this bad in the pre-season, we went on to win the Super Bowl. Right now this is the week I'm hoping they actually get clicking.

tony hipchest
08-23-2007, 11:32 PM
Where's tony at when you need him?lol.

the o-line is a major concern. last year simmons was bookended with hartings who valiantly tried to hold on a year too long (he was rumored to be done 3 years ago) and starks who was overweight and pretty much like one of those cement barricades that you simply drive around.
you can almost say there were many times where simmons was trying to block 3 defenders. mahan and colon will be an upgrade.

when playing a vanilla offense, teams arent gonna respect a running game with davenport in the backfield like they would with willie. even so, the steelers have had 7 pass plays of 25 yds+ and two short passes that went for 24 yds. we have shown we can get huge chunks of yardage passing the ball on the simplest of plays. our wr's are getting open w/o scheming to get em open and w/o a threat of a running game or utilizing our te's.

ben summed it up best in a recent interview when he said the steelers coulda put 35 points up on the redskins if they wouldve used some of the plays and schemes theyve been working on. both him and hines were chirping in arians ear suggesting plays. arians calmly told them to settle down and they were not gonna give any of their opponents hints of what to study before the season begins.

to this point our red zone offense has been simple. lets see if our 5 can block your 5 and our rb pound it in. lets see if our wr can create seperation on your defender and hold onto the ball.

im calling it right now- theres gonna be a point in the season inside the 20 where we line up for a fg on 4th and 1. with 3 te's to 1 side, our holder (sepulveda) is gonna roll out on a sneak and destroy a cb trying to tackle him. of course were not going to show something like this in pre season.

Steel Pit
08-24-2007, 01:11 AM
I agree with the few that have said that the Steelers are running a vanilla offense during the pre-season. We haven't seen even 5% of the new offense. The Steelers aren't so STUPID as to run their new scheme while being filmed.

I am however concerned about the play of the offensive line. Vanilla offense or not, some of these guys just aren't blocking. I have no idea how this is going to pan out when the regular season starts. I'm certainly not going to assume that everything is going to be Hunky Dory. I'm just hoping for the best at this point.

Preacher
08-24-2007, 02:11 AM
I agree with the few that have said that the Steelers are running a vanilla offense during the pre-season. We haven't seen even 5% of the new offense. The Steelers aren't so STUPID as to run their new scheme while being filmed.

I am however concerned about the play of the offensive line. Vanilla offense or not, some of these guys just aren't blocking. I have no idea how this is going to pan out when the regular season starts. I'm certainly not going to assume that everything is going to be Hunky Dory. I'm just hoping for the best at this point.

Truthfully,

I was too, until I realized that we have not yet started our actual starters together.

Thus, we really haven't seen what our real starters can do.

Steel Pit
08-24-2007, 05:06 AM
Truthfully,

I was too, until I realized that we have not yet started our actual starters together.

Thus, we really haven't seen what our real starters can do.


Well I can get on board with that because that's about the best that we can hope for at this point.
Now let's all bow our heads and pray for cohesion with the Steelers offensive line.:grouphug:

SteelerTim
08-24-2007, 10:13 AM
I agree with the few that have said that the Steelers are running a vanilla offense during the pre-season. We haven't seen even 5% of the new offense. The Steelers aren't so STUPID as to run their new scheme while being filmed.

I am however concerned about the play of the offensive line. Vanilla offense or not, some of these guys just aren't blocking. I have no idea how this is going to pan out when the regular season starts. I'm certainly not going to assume that everything is going to be Hunky Dory. I'm just hoping for the best at this point.

While we are running a vanilla offense we have to remember our opponents are running a vanilla defense. That is what worries me about our offensive line and why Ben and Hines thinking they could put up all those points on the deadskins doesn't carry much weight.

X-Terminator
08-24-2007, 10:39 AM
While we are running a vanilla offense we have to remember our opponents are running a vanilla defense. That is what worries me about our offensive line and why Ben and Hines thinking they could put up all those points on the deadskins doesn't carry much weight.

Good point, SteelerTim. I firmly believe that if we had set units from day one of camp, all playing together, our OL and offense in general would be much better than it has been. Ben and Hines can talk all they want about the new wrinkles and opening things up, but they won't do jack if the guys up front aren't doing their jobs.

kochmanski
08-24-2007, 10:46 AM
Watching other preseason games from all around the league just convinces me even more that THE PRESEASON SHOWS US NOTHING.

And as far as the offense under Bruce Arians, I keep thinking this: The year he was Cleveland's offensive coordinator, they lit it up and moved the ball up and down the field like crazy and scored like crazier. And that was a far less talented team than this year's Steelers. So this years Steelers should be able to run wild under Arians.

That's my logic.

Livinginthe past
08-24-2007, 02:18 PM
Scores don't matter in preseason but you have to take something from the level of performance of the 1st teamers - otherwise, why would they even bother playing the games?

It surely isn't to audition a bunch of players who'll go back to the regular jobs once the season starts.

Coaches dont want to to see complicated play calling, but they do want the team to execute the fundamentals of the game - blocking is a fundamental.

I was p*ssed that the Patriots O-line played so poorly against Tennessee - whatever the situation you let your franchise QB take that many hits in one half of a football game.

The same goes for the Steelers, even if the guys are being shuffled round it doesn't excuse poor execution and the consistent inability to punch it in from inside the 5.

tony hipchest
08-24-2007, 02:34 PM
The same goes for the Steelers, even if the guys are being shuffled round it doesn't excuse poor execution and the consistent inability to punch it in from inside the 5.i take solice in the fact that gary russel was able to punch it in on second effort, regardless if the refs blew their 2nd goal line call of the weekend. and of course defenses arent gonna roll over to allow you to consistantly punch it in, either. i wont worry too much until i see the actual goal line offense on the field.

Livinginthe past
08-24-2007, 02:49 PM
i take solice in the fact that gary russel was able to punch it in on second effort, regardless if the refs blew their 2nd goal line call of the weekend. and of course defenses arent gonna roll over to allow you to consistantly punch it in, either. i wont worry too much until i see the actual goal line offense on the field.

How many times did they get inside the 5 though?

4? 5?

Im not trying to be over critical, its just that people seem to want to believe that preseason games mean absolutely nothing.

Hammer67
08-24-2007, 03:22 PM
Why is it that we beat this same drum every year? The pre season shows us nothing. It is simply a way to evaluate the young talent on your team. No game planning, no playbook (beyond vanilla), no starters for most of the game.


:coffee:

mental.apparition
08-24-2007, 03:28 PM
The offensive line will improve upon last season because they are not as bad as they played in '06. The preseason shake and bake tactics have made things look worse than they actually are. Starks is not out of the running for RT starter. Colon is a year away from being the answer.

Nate Washington is one of the best #3s in the league production wise and will only get better with experience. Holmes is going to be the spark that Ward used to be for the passing game. He will allow Ward to move around and Ward will be even more effective. Young and Baker are not on the 53. Willie Reid is your 5th WR and could push Wilson for #4 later in the year.

Running back, after Willie, is interesting. Dookie is on the squad. Barlow is cut. I believe Kreider is here another year. Haynes, Russell and Davis are fighting for two spots on the 53. I think it will be Haynes and Russell with Russell taking up Staley's job of modeling the lastest in athletic wear fashions until Haynes gets injured again.

This is not a new offense. There is not a new play book. Arians has tweaked things per his style and allowed Ben some input. If anything, the scheme and terminology has been simplified.

The evolution of the offense began last year and Ben choked on it until too late. He had plenty of help from his team mates.

If Ben can improve his reads and ball protection and learn to trust those around him, this offense will be fine.

The Steelers are still going to feature the run with Parker. If Ben progresses as he should the passing game will be electric.

Per the model Tony has mentioned, the Steelers offense should be a "pick your poison" type of unit. I'll say by week 7, and the rough stretch of the schedule, the Steelers will be able to beat most teams with whatever they are given.

Load the box up and Ben will go over top. Drop 5 or 6 or more and see Willie run. No matter what you had better cover sideline to side line because the Steelers are friggin' fast.