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View Full Version : Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...


tony hipchest
08-25-2007, 03:37 PM
...as he defends teresa. i cant respect him anymore than i already do, but i can definitely appreciate how nobody takes the "high road" better than him in professional sports.

http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/headlines/cup/08/24/dearnhardtjr.defends.teresa/index.html

"I think it's about time we give Teresa a break," Earnhardt said. "She makes the decision on that number because she owns it. And as much as I am disappointed and frustrated over the fact that I don't get to keep driving the No. 8, the stuff that I read on the Internet and the stuff that I'm hearing is going on -- the remarks about her, directed toward her -- I don't think anybody deserves that.

"I just think everybody needs to lay off a little bit because she was married to my daddy and I know he wouldn't be too happy about what's going on, what's being said about her. So that just kind of bothers me a little bit."

"If people just take a step back and look, she hasn't done anything intentionally detrimental to me. I've got a good future, a good opportunity in my hands. She's doing what she feels like she needs to do.

Junior, who is not married, spoke like an outraged parent as he defended his stepmother and his half-sister, Taylor.

"I hate to see somebody be crucified on the Internet like Teresa has," Earnhardt said. "She's got a daughter that goes to school, that's got friends and she has to put up with that stuff. It's just hardcore, man.

"People have been really, really rude and really way over the line on some of the things that have been said. I know Teresa doesn't know half of it because she won't read it and she won't put up with it. If anybody in their right mind knew that was going on they wouldn't be around it and deal with it.

"But it still gets back to Taylor. Nobody deserves that. It ain't fair."



by no means im i a dale sr. fan, but any respect i have for him can be attributed to his son. jr. is the one who humanized "the intimidator" in my eyes. i admire the way jr. still looks out for his dad, and is concerned about what he thinks (or would think if he were alive).

"honor thy father...."

revefsreleets
08-25-2007, 03:46 PM
Actually, NASCAR owns the number, and she just leases it from them. But the net effect is the same. But this does kind of reflect on the nature of your typical Jr. fan, I guess.

tony hipchest
08-25-2007, 04:02 PM
Actually, NASCAR owns the number, and she just leases it from them. But the net effect is the same. But this does kind of reflect on the nature of your typical Jr. fan, I guess.not to get bogged down in the semantics of it (as im sure jr wont) but if i lease a car or a haouse, i will assume it is mine until i make the decision to quit leasing it.

however we can turn this into a thread about how stupid one thinks dale jr and all his fans are if you so desire (although its completely besides the point)

i just hope kurt bush continues racking up a win for everyone j. gordon pisses away. i dont wanna see jr. make the chase. he'll have plenty of opportunities in the future. team hendrick will see to that.

revefsreleets
08-25-2007, 04:09 PM
Jesus. Dale Jr himself is admitting it with statements like:

"I hate to see somebody be crucified on the Internet like Teresa has," Earnhardt said. "She's got a daughter that goes to school, that's got friends and she has to put up with that stuff. It's just hardcore, man.

"People have been really, really rude and really way over the line on some of the things that have been said. I know Teresa doesn't know half of it because she won't read it and she won't put up with it. If anybody in their right mind knew that was going on they wouldn't be around it and deal with it."

What exactly do you think he's referring to? It's a bunch of assward backed hilljack rednecks who have no idea what is actually occurring just lashing out at whatever easy target they can find. And these are the smart ones who actually went to the library and figured out how to get online. These are the same people who are gonna have a real challenge cheering against themselves next year, but it might be fun to watch!

Jeremy
08-26-2007, 06:14 AM
Say it with me............overrated.

revefsreleets
08-26-2007, 06:58 PM
Say it with me............overrated.

From a marketing standpoint, he's probably underrated, but as far as driving a car? Kyle Busch will be a better career driver.

Jeremy
08-26-2007, 10:34 PM
From a marketing standpoint, he's probably underrated, but as far as driving a car? Kyle Busch will be a better career driver.

I hate Bud, don't wear Wranglers, and don't drive a Chevy. I guess the Dale Jr mojo doesn't work on me. :wink02:

revefsreleets
08-27-2007, 06:57 PM
That's why he's underrated. Do you know how many rednecks there are out there who think Bud really is the King of Beers? That Wrangler jeans are the pinnacle of fashion? And the few out there who drink Natural Light and wear Toughskins will soon be converted.

Galax Steeler
09-01-2007, 07:58 AM
overated

tony hipchest
09-02-2007, 11:35 PM
What exactly do you think he's referring to? It's a bunch of assward backed hilljack rednecks who have no idea what is actually occurring just lashing out at whatever easy target they can find. And these are the smart ones who actually went to the library and figured out how to get online. These are the same people who are gonna have a real challenge cheering against themselves next year, but it might be fun to watch!

what a dense statement. if i didnt think all gordon & johnson fans were a bunch of butt plugging, cheese cutting, whine sipping, homos, i might object. and these are the ones who take the penis out of their rear long enough to actually sit down and watch a race and pull the schlong out of their throats long enough to bitch about it. all the others are bandwaggon jumping spermbanks who cant say shit.

jeeze, why did you make me have to go and defend the 'necks? of course i dont despise them as much as others, i simply find them comical.

however, i agree, nothing beats a slapfest amongst the whine and 'neck crowd! its fun to watch.

Elvis
09-03-2007, 09:29 AM
:blah::blah::blah:
It is very hard for me NOT to say something very rude in this thread.. so, with God's help I am gonna say a prayer for all of you that is in here making fun of anyone of any race or stature. Just remember.. No One Is Better Than Anyone Else Here~~
:coffee::tt02:

revefsreleets
09-03-2007, 06:37 PM
what a dense statement. if i didnt think all gordon & johnson fans were a bunch of butt plugging, cheese cutting, whine sipping, homos, i might object. and these are the ones who take the penis out of their rear long enough to actually sit down and watch a race and pull the schlong out of their throats long enough to bitch about it. all the others are bandwaggon jumping spermbanks who cant say shit.

jeeze, why did you make me have to go and defend the 'necks? of course i dont despise them as much as others, i simply find them comical.

however, i agree, nothing beats a slapfest amongst the whine and 'neck crowd! its fun to watch.

This is comic genius if it's a joke, and incredibly disturbing if it's for real. One would typically have to go to a bowling alley in West Virginia on nickel beer night around the first of the month at 2 o'clock in the morning to hear this kind of ignorance. But there is an interesting point here.

On one hand, you have the ignorant hillbillies thinking that all Hendrick fans are gay, drink wine, and complain, which I'm sure a very small percentage may actually fit into that mold. We'll ignore this, since it's obviously 90% jealousy. On the other, you have the "New NASCAR fans" thinking that all the old school rednecks drink Bud, live in trailer parks, and wear Wrangler jeans. But look on TV! Bud is on the hood of Junior's car. And who is that hocking Wrangler jeans? And when I drive past trailer parks, the "8" flag is ubiquitous.

But the two will have to learn to live together next year, and I can't wait to see the outcome.

tony hipchest
09-03-2007, 10:05 PM
*WHOOOOSHH*

This is comic genius if it's a joke,

But the two will have to learn to live together next year, and I can't wait to see the outcome.thanks. although i'd call it more satirical commentary on the stereotypes that were being perpetuated in this thread. it is funny how it works both ways though.

"bowling alley in west virginia".... now that is comedy pyrite, right there!

we agree though. gordon fans will have to visit their plastic surgeons about 5 times to scrunch their brows low enough to root for their new "teammate". its just a shame :rolleyes: (more obvious sarcasm) jr. wont get a chance to compete for the cup against his "rivalries" one last time.

and may i suggest that driving by too many trailor parks and believing everything you see on tv distorts reality?

and the pinnacle of irony? all the "new NASCAR fans" who have jumped on the bandwagon of a southern redneck sport and complain about all the redneck fans who actually built the wagon they are more than happy to ride on. :toofunny:

"whaaaaa. they drink beer and wear wranglers, my vinyards and versaci jeans will never gain sponsorship now!"

thats the great thing about being a kurt busch fan. hes just an ******* in everyones eyes, which makes me appreciate the fans of stewart, harvick, and newman. the fans hatred against them is based on actual personalities and driving styles as opposed to blind, ignorant, stereotypes.

"nickel beer night" :rofl: im still dying here.

revefsreleets
09-04-2007, 04:46 PM
*WHOOOOSHH*

thanks. although i'd call it more satirical commentary on the stereotypes that were being perpetuated in this thread. it is funny how it works both ways though.



But it IS satirical commentary on my part. More importantly, I'm trying to show that it really doesn't work both ways, since the stereotypes you are purporting are almost ridiculously outlandish and unrealistic, while my original statement about market appeal and target audience is pretty much dead on. Can you deny that teams seek primary/secondary sponsors who fit their target demo, and vice versa? Do you deny that Jr. is attracting a certain demographic? A certain demo that drinks Bud, and wears Wrangler jeans? Conversely, I see the Hendricks sponsors as being quite a bit different. High end paint, a home Improvement store, Pepsi, Frito Lay, etc...and I'm fairly sure that the people consuming the latter product fit a different demographic altogether.

tony hipchest
09-04-2007, 05:40 PM
Conversely, I see the Hendricks sponsors as being quite a bit different. High end paint, a home Improvement store, Pepsi, Frito Lay, etc...and I'm fairly sure that the people consuming the latter product fit a different demographic altogether.

so you are saying bengaldave better fits the demographic you describe?

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e206/meanjoecoop/bengaldave.jpg

oh wait, that's doritos and mountain dew on the floor. HUGE difference! :rolleyes:

"high end paints" lol. as opposed to all the low end paints that sponsor the "redneck" drivers? have you been to a home depot or lowes lately? they are the wal-mart's of home improvement. you think its just rich sophisticated, high end clientel that walks into these stores to purchase the products? lol. they get the bulk of their business from blue collar laborers that build and paint houses, just like they built NASCAR into the billion do.

just because a car may be sponsored by X-Box, doesnt mean the demographic hobnobs with microsoft executives.

revefsreleets
09-04-2007, 06:00 PM
Wow. First off, have you seen a Pepsi or Doritos commercial lately? Think they are target marketing the guy in the picture? Hell no! They already have that kind of loser, and are trying to expand market share. Do you know anything about the auto collision repair business and Dupont's relationship to it? How about some of Dupont's other products, like Corian? I'll give you a couple hints. Maaco ain't using Dupont, and trailers don't come standard with Corian counter tops.

I'm SURE you realize that the primary target of a Lowe's/Home Depot commercial is a home owner with a disposable income, right? It's secondary market is made up of commercial accounts, which amounts to small business owners/contractors. As for the "Wal-Mart of home improvement", that's a dead giveaway that you are out of your depth here: Wal-Mart is the Wal-Mart of home improvement. Why do you think you see so many Lowe's right next to Wal-Mart's? If you have a beer budget, you buy your paint (or whatever)at Wal-Mart, and if you are a little better heeled, you drive across the parking lot to Lowe's.

Look, I'm not exactly sure where you are going with this, but getting back on track, the whole point of Jr. joining Hendricks is for market domination. Just like Disney got into the low and moderate priced hotels to steal business from the Motel 6's and Holiday Inn's, Hendrick wants the low end stuff too, and now they have the driver to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

tony hipchest
09-04-2007, 08:15 PM
Wow. First off, have you seen a Pepsi or Doritos commercial lately? Think they are target marketing the guy in the picture? Hell no! They already have that kind of loser, and are trying to expand market share. Do you know anything about the auto collision repair business and Dupont's relationship to it? How about some of Dupont's other products, like Corian? I'll give you a couple hints. Maaco ain't using Dupont, and trailers don't come standard with Corian counter tops.

I'm SURE you realize that the primary target of a Lowe's/Home Depot commercial is a home owner with a disposable income, right? It's secondary market is made up of commercial accounts, which amounts to small business owners/contractors. As for the "Wal-Mart of home improvement", that's a dead giveaway that you are out of your depth here: Wal-Mart is the Wal-Mart of home improvement. Why do you think you see so many Lowe's right next to Wal-Mart's? If you have a beer budget, you buy your paint (or whatever)at Wal-Mart, and if you are a little better heeled, you drive across the parking lot to Lowe's.

Look, I'm not exactly sure where you are going with this, but getting back on track, the whole point of Jr. joining Hendricks is for market domination. Just like Disney got into the low and moderate priced hotels to steal business from the Motel 6's and Holiday Inn's, Hendrick wants the low end stuff too, and now they have the driver to appeal to the lowest common denominator.since youre amongst friends here, i think you can now drop this disguise that you are just a fan of the sport as a whole and have no rooting interrests. you deny team hendrick drivers about as well as Peter denied Christ.

im pretty well informed of duponts products. theyre only one of (if not the most) cutting edge chemical manufacturing plants in the world. then again, it wasnt me who made them out to be a simple high end paint company, now is it? if you think patronizing me will help perpetuate the stereotypes you hold to so strongly, then by all means have at it.

believe me, ive had enough debates with sportsfans who suggest that ALL NASCAR fans are exactly what you describe as your stereotypical earnhardt jr. fan. according to their logic, you are one of them for even knowing about and following the sport.

im pretty in tune to nascars marketing directives. on average, the yearly household income of the nascar fan tops that of nfl, mlb, nba, and nhl fans. and i notice hendrick isnt pulling all of jr's sponsors along with him.

homeowners with disposable income are hiring cheap labor to install all those lowes products and are telling them what to buy. the notion that fritos and pepsi are targetting the cristal and caviar crowd is laughable. im SURE you know you will find more lowes and home depot placesd in the same proximity as opposed to a wal-mart. i will eagerly await you to explain the marketting strategy behind this. :rolleyes: heres a hint- it doesnt depend on the type or social class of the clientel.

im sorry that rednecks threw bottles at your favorite drivers car. that sucks and they suck. and according to my demographic, i should be a gordon, johnson, or harvick fan. sometimes it just doesnt work out that way though.


btw, one of gordons largest target demographics has been kids. explains alot.

revefsreleets
09-04-2007, 08:41 PM
since youre amongst friends here, i think you can now drop this disguise that you are just a fan of the sport as a whole and have no rooting interrests. you deny team hendrick drivers about as well as Peter denied Christ.

im pretty well informed of duponts products. theyre only one of (if not the most) cutting edge chemical manufacturing plants in the world. then again, it wasnt me who made them out to be a simple high end paint company, now is it? if you think patronizing me will help perpetuate the stereotypes you hold to so strongly, then by all means have at it.

believe me, ive had enough debates with sportsfans who suggest that ALL NASCAR fans are exactly what you describe as your stereotypical earnhardt jr. fan. according to their logic, you are one of them for even knowing about and following the sport.

im pretty in tune to nascars marketing directives. on average, the yearly household income of the nascar fan tops that of nfl, mlb, nba, and nhl fans. and i notice hendrick isnt pulling all of jr's sponsors along with him.

homeowners with disposable income are hiring cheap labor to install all those lowes products and are telling them what to buy. the notion that fritos and pepsi are targetting the cristal and caviar crowd is laughable. im SURE you know you will find more lowes and home depot placesd in the same proximity as opposed to a wal-mart. i will eagerly await you to explain the marketting strategy behind this. :rolleyes: heres a hint- it doesnt depend on the type or social class of the clientel.

im sorry that rednecks threw bottles at your favorite drivers car. that sucks and they suck. and according to my demographic, i should be a gordon, johnson, or harvick fan. sometimes it just doesnt work out that way though.


btw, one of gordons largest target demographics has been kids. explains alot.

Let's leave it at this. I can barely even understand this post as you posted it to begin with, but, provided you're happy enough with it to put it up, lets go ahead and say "you win". My marketing career and education and practical working knowledge is simply no match for your (completely wrong) statements like: "im pretty in tune to nascars marketing directives. on average, the yearly household income of the nascar fan tops that of nfl, mlb, nba, and nhl fans."

revefsreleets
09-04-2007, 09:19 PM
Ah, forget it, I can't resist. Before you walk into the trap, I'll spring it.

On one hand, you can't resist bringing up purist elements of NASCAR, the "old school element", if you will, but only superficially. You align yourself with the anti-Gordon camp, tossing around a bunch of gay talk and all that. But when you are actually drawn into a conversation, you end up quoting how upscale NASCAR is becoming and has become, spouting off a bunch of nonsense about incomes versus NFL and NBA and all that. Beside the fact that you are mostly wrong in all that, the best bit is that you are using your own argument against yourself! NASCAR is what it is now due to drivers from states other than in the SE, people who can talk and look good and can market product. You can't have it both ways, Tony, even when you think you can.

tony hipchest
09-04-2007, 09:20 PM
very well then. if ignoring empirical statistical data that the average per capita income of nascar fans exceeds that of the other 4 major sports makes that degree hanging on your wall that much bigger , then more power to ya.

I can barely even understand this post as you posted it to begin with my bad. when gordons sponsors have included bugs bunny, sesame street, star wars, frito's, and pepsi, i just figured the targeted demographic was obvious.

anyways, you catch the CMT production of DALE? very nicely done if you ask me. especially for a hick television broadcast. im sure necks all across america are drying their tears with their wifebeaters as we speak.

the candid approach of dale jr. speaking about his fathers death is admirable, although im not sure that the death of a hero and a father transcends socio-economical lines. maybe its different amongst the whine and cheese crowd....

lol

revefsreleets
09-04-2007, 09:21 PM
very well then. if ignoring empirical statistical data that the average per capita income of nascar fans exceeds that of the other 4 major sports makes that degree hanging on your wall that much bigger , then more power to ya.

my bad. when gordons sponsors have included bugs bunny, sesame street, star wars, frito's, and pepsi, i just figured the targeted demographic was obvious.

anyways, you catch the CMT production of DALE? very nicely done if you ask me. especially for a hick television broadcast. im sure necks all across america are drying their tears with their wifebeaters as we speak.

the candid approach of dale jr. speaking about his fathers death is admirable, although im not sure that the death of a hero and a father transcends socio-economical lines. maybe its different amongst the whine and cheese crowd....

lol
Prove the first sentence and you win. Not "observed data", by the way, I want cold hard data. I already know it, so anything you have contrary will be interesting. Good luck and have at it...

tony hipchest
09-04-2007, 09:30 PM
Ah, forget it, I can't resist. Before you walk into the trap, I'll spring it.

On one hand, you can't resist bringing up purist elements of NASCAR, the "old school element", if you will, but only superficially. You align yourself with the anti-Gordon camp, tossing around a bunch of gay talk and all that. But when you are actually drawn into a conversation, you end up quoting how upscale NASCAR is becoming and has become, spouting off a bunch of nonsense about incomes versus NFL and NBA and all that. Beside the fact that you are mostly wrong in all that, the best bit is that you are using your own argument against yourself! NASCAR is what it is now due to drivers from states other than in the SE, people who can talk and look good and can market product. You can't have it both ways, Tony, even when you think you can.lol. yeah, your bow out argument is that calculated. :rolleyes:

if davey allison hadnt died and jeff gordon never came along NASCAR would be in exactly the same position it is today. jeff gordon is not NASCAR just like the patriots are not the NFL. the parallels amongst die hard newbie gordon fans and patriot fans are uncanny. i guess NASCAR never thought of racing at indy until gordon came along, right? lol

tony hipchest
09-04-2007, 09:46 PM
Prove the first sentence and you win. Not "observed data", by the way, I want cold hard data. I already know it, so anything you have contrary will be interesting. Good luck and have at it... while i accept it as a common truth this is the quickest search i turned up-

http://www.bookmarket.com/statistics.html

Racing Fans

42% of NASCAR racing fans earn more than $50,000 per year. 40% are women. NASCAR is the second highest rated sport on TV. Thirteen million people attended NASCAR races last year. Fans spent over $1 billion on officially licensed NASCAR products in 2001. John's Comments: Racing fans are more rabid than hockey, soccer, baseball, or basketball fans. You don't have to publish NASCAR-licensed books to get their attention. They love all sorts of car racing, from Formula One, NASCAR, sprint cars, and more.



lol. this article is from 1995

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3092/is_n10_v34/ai_16837879



NASCAR (National Association of Stock Car Auto Racing), the country's premier racing group, is on fire. Sales of NASCAR-licensed products totaled $400 million in 1994, with mass market apparel credited for about $50 million. While these numbers still don't approach those of the big four, Major League Baseball, National Football League, National Basketball Association and Nation Hockey League, NASCAR is burning rubber on the sports merchandising highway.

The demographics of NASCAR's fan base may surprise those unfamiliar with the sport. The idea that it's only composed of low-income workers from the deep South is a misconception--dust trails can be detected from coast to coast.

NASCAR research shows that 29 percent of fans command yearly household incomes of $50,000 or higher, with 27 percent holding professional or managerial positions. Fans of all ages enjoy the sport, with the highest concentration in the 25- to 44-year-old bracket. Thirty-eight percent of total fans are female.

"NASCAR fans range from the gas station mechanic who really knows cars, to the vice president of corporation XYZ who enjoys the intensity of the sport, to the teenage girl who likes to watch Jeff Gordon, a driver in his early 20s who is truly one of the sport's rising stars," says Charlie Cooper, director of marketing for NASCAR Properties, based in Atlanta.

NASCAR's popularity was built slowly. Created in 1948, NASCAR built its core fan base in typical grassroots style. Die-hard racing aficionados used to attend events at dirt tracks near their homes.

The cable television boom of the '80s helped to bring NASCAR into the limelight. Outfits like TNT and SportsChannel signed lucrative telecast deals. ESPN is currently making a big push with quippy commercials that say, "Find out why NASCAR is your car."



:hunch: i thought this was common knowledge based on current statistical data gathered. ive heard it in national broadcasts. so what do you know?

revefsreleets
09-05-2007, 04:41 PM
Since your "facts" seem to be largely preconceived notions masquerading as legitimate truths, I thought I'd reel this back in a bit with some real data. There's some interesting stuff here. You should read it.

"Bowling and NASCAR" demo's mirror each other"
http://www.bowlingworld.com/pdf/sep05/page23.pdf

Wal-mart demos
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m4021/is_2002_Nov_1/ai_93089469

NFL demo's
http://blog.tk-tv.com:80/2007/01/30/who-will-be-watching-superbowl-41.aspx

Home Improvement shopper demo's
http://www.retailforward.com/membercontent/shopperscape/rfshopperupdate.pdf

Gordon's impact on racing and fan base
http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.com/archives/2004/2/NASCAR:+not+just+talking+moonshine

"According to Performance Research, a Newport, RI-based firm, 40% of NASCAR fans are women, 46% have college degrees, and (ONLY, I'd like to point out. This pales in comparison to NFL and College football fan incomes) 43% are in households with incomes of more than $40,000.
http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/news/hits/050315rb.htm

NASCAR marketing 101
http://www.gordonline.com/commish/030105.html

"I have a suspicion that the middle to lower-middle class is their largest fan base, and people are getting laid off," says Jon Ackley, a Virginia Commonwealth University professor who teaches a course on NASCAR economics."
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2006-11-14-nascar-cover_x.htm

Finally, and most importantly, I need to address your attempt to use the demographics of NASCAR both for and against yourself, since that is literally what you are doing. You accuse me of being a Gordon fan, which, in your words, makes me gay, whiny, and a fair weather fan, yet you don't hesitate to defend the sport by over-exaggerating the economic impact of the "new NASCAR fan", which I definitely am. In short, you are trying to have it both ways, ripping someone like me, but also using my socio-economic status (I'm young, a college graduate, have an income on the higher end of the spectrum we are talking about, and was attracted to the sport ONLY by the younger drivers, the guys I could relate too) as an argument for NASCAR, but cyclically against me all at the same time. It's not only disingenuous and nonsensical, it's also hypocritical.

tony hipchest
09-05-2007, 05:58 PM
Finally, and most importantly, I need to address your attempt to use the demographics of NASCAR both for and against yourself, since that is literally what you are doing. You accuse me of being a Gordon fan, which, in your words, makes me gay, whiny, and a fair weather fan, yet you don't hesitate to defend the sport by over-exaggerating the economic impact of the "new NASCAR fan", which I definitely am. In short, you are trying to have it both ways, ripping someone like me, but also using my socio-economic status (I'm young, a college graduate, have an income on the higher end of the spectrum we are talking about, and was attracted to the sport ONLY by the younger drivers, the guys I could relate too) as an argument for NASCAR, but cyclically against me all at the same time. It's not only disingenuous and nonsensical, it's also hypocritical.you really think im gonna read an article on wal mart demographics? lol. absolutely no relevance whatsoever. actually, i had to quit reading the articles altogether because they were all fluff.

NFL fans are more likely to have high incomes, have more education, and be more receptive to advertising than the general population

yeah big deal. nascar fans are more likely to have higer incomes than the general population too.

i used nascars demographics to break down your stereotypes. if you feel like you are being ripped, that is not the intention. however i think its highly hypocritical and closed minded to quote all the "young drivers" who have drawn the new fans and their cash, when what you really mean is all the young drivers that you like. how can you truly believe that gordon only attracts rich snooty people, and earnhardt jr. only attracts white trailer trash, redneck scum?

its simply false. if what you said were true, logic says since jr. and his father had the largest fanbase, the actual demographics and per capita income of these fans would be dragging down the average nascar fans per capita income as a whole.

anyways, i know breaking down peoples stereotypes and prejudices is about impossible. just remember, when you slam jr.s fanbase with stereotypes you are slamming your own drivers fanbase and the fanbase of nascar as a whole (which means me). :smile: so whose the hypocrite?

revefsreleets
09-05-2007, 06:23 PM
I remember when I knew everything, and couldn't be dissuaded. Thank God, I've learned a lot since then. I posted up some links to sites which refute your nonsensical arguments about Lowe's vs Wal-Mart and other wild stuff that you made up or actually believe to be true. Funny that you refer to fact and educated opinion as "fluff'. That says a lot. It's all there if you want to educate yourself. Anyway, let's wrap this up.

Let's just take one example of you, again, taking your own thoughts and purporting them to be fact. NASCAR fans are more likely to have higher incomes than the US population? Nope. Here are the facts:

Income distribution
U.S. pop. NASCAR fans
$30-50,000 22% 29%
$50-75,000 18% 22%
$75-100,000 12% 12%
$100,000+ 9% 8%

NASCAR skews a little toward the low end, and this is against the average US population, not NFL or college football viewers, who trend a lot more affluent. But this is all water under the bridge. You said that NASCAR fans were the most affluent and you were dead wrong, again.

As far as Junior and his fans, you should read back through the thread. I was the one who stated that he was underrated from a marketing standpoint. Your reaction was to call Hendricks fans gay. Heady stuff. But to correct you (yet again), when I correctly categorize a certain demographic of Jr. fans from a marketing standpoint, I am in no way impugning my own socio-economic standing, nor am I in any way detracting or disparaging a sport which I watch and enjoy every week.

My arguments are consistent, my points are clear and concise, and I've cited sources. I'm not sure what else there is to do or say here, other than I'd recommend reading some of the stuff I've posted if you are really interested in learning more about the intricacies of marketing.

tony hipchest
09-05-2007, 06:47 PM
I remember when I knew everything, and couldn't be dissuaded.
so do i.:
It's a bunch of assward backed hilljack rednecks who have no idea what is actually occurring just lashing out at whatever easy target they can find. And these are the smart ones who actually went to the library and figured out how to get online. These are the same people who are gonna have a real challenge cheering against themselves next year, but it might be fun to watch!
__________________


:chuckle:

Thank God, I've learned a lot since then.

obviously not.

thanks for the little marketing lessons, but i read enough to realize they were insignificant to the meat and potatoes of this thread. marketing is fairly simple and i dont need a tutor in that area anyways. :yawn:

it doesnt take a genius to figure out dale jr. is gonna be a bigger marketing tool to the hip-hop crowd, as opposed to mark martin, even though they both like to bump a little 50-cent before a race, equally.

good luck with the bigotry.

revefsreleets
09-05-2007, 07:11 PM
Well, there's no need to stop, I guess. I'm not sure why you want to dig a deeper hole, but, hey, it's your dime:

what a dense statement. if i didnt think all gordon & johnson fans were a bunch of butt plugging, cheese cutting, whine sipping, homos, i might object. and these are the ones who take the penis out of their rear long enough to actually sit down and watch a race and pull the schlong out of their throats long enough to bitch about it. all the others are bandwaggon jumping spermbanks who cant say shit.

Bear in mind, my "quote" was directed at the same fans who Dale Earnhardt Jr. was blasting HIMSELF, in the original post. It's weird arguing with a guy who doesn't even remember what he's already posted, let alone knowing nothing about the subject matter he's vehemently arguing about. It's almost surreal.

And if you think marketing is fairly simple, why are companies like Pepsi spending 100 million a year trying to solve the riddle that you, of all people, have apparently solved? Perhaps they should all just hire you.

tony hipchest
09-05-2007, 07:28 PM
Well, there's no need to stop, I guess. I'm not sure why you want to dig a deeper hole, but, hey, it's your dime:



Bear in mind, my "quote" was directed at the same fans who Dale Earnhardt Jr. was blasting HIMSELF, in the original post. It's weird arguing with a guy who doesn't even remember what he's already posted, let alone knowing nothing about the subject matter he's vehemently arguing about. It's almost surreal.

And if you think marketing is fairly simple, why are companies like Pepsi spending 100 million a year trying to solve the riddle that you, of all people, have apparently solved? Perhaps they should all just hire you.i havent applied.

your really think i truly believe that quote you quoted? when i got more time i wanna piss against a wall to cure bigotry i'll give you a lesson in satire and sarcasm 101. nice attempt to deflect from your stereotypes though. but then, this has already been covered, now hasnt it?

like i said, for anyone to trash any fans of any driver in that manner is akin to trashing the nascar fanbase as a whole. (and akin to trashing ones self). i appreciate ALL the fans who have made this sport grow, (i now longer have to defend it even being called a sport like in times past) and while i may not like a driver, i can appreciate their contributions. NASCAR would not be better if jeff gordon ripped his skull from his spinal column in a firey wreck.

and jr wasnt "blasting" anyone in the way you were. he was simply making a plea. too late to put the cat in the bag on what you said (with full intent of being an insult without the satire and sarcasm that was obvious in my post). no way, what jr. said in a press conference can sugar coat your beliefs. what is surreal is that you think it can.

anyways, since you know so much, how come Pepsi hasnt hired you? :hunch:

revefsreleets
09-05-2007, 07:38 PM
anyways, since you know so much, how come Pepsi hasnt hired you? :hunch:

I'm young. I'm the Vice President of Sales and Marketing for a multimedia/production company. We're young and aggressive and cutting edge. We have several Fortune 50 clients. Maybe I will land there or somewhere like it one day. But I doubt it. I like the creative side, and I'm not greedy.

tony hipchest
09-05-2007, 08:02 PM
I'm young. I'm the Vice President of Sales and Marketing for a multimedia/production company. We're young and aggressive and cutting edge. We have several Fortune 50 clients. Maybe I will land there or somewhere like it one day. But I doubt it. I like the creative side, and I'm not greedy.
:cookie:

well heres a little marketing lesson, maybe you havent learned. in this day and age, when NASCAR is focused on growth and expansion, the last type of fan (or vp of sales and marketing) they need is one who perpetuates the stereotypes that have held it back in the past. especially a fan who denies the driver they root for.

good luck with pepsi and selling it to the rich because i doubt a corp like ISCA would touch you with a 10 foot pole.

and i have some advice for pepsi/frito lay too. targetting rich people who make up a small % of the population (who belong to health clubs and drink evian water and $5 lattes), isnt gonna gain you much market share. its better to target all the fat lazy kids who are playing x-box and drinking cokes and eating dorito's. thats where the $$$ comes from. unless it is proven that rich people eat more chips in a single sitting and drink more liquids in a single sitting.

and for that bit of advice i dont even expect a slice of the $100 million pie. (its all about global recognition for a corporation that big anyways)

revefsreleets
09-05-2007, 08:16 PM
Bravo! That's exactly the kind of response I expect from you, and you didn't disappoint. It's a mix of ignorance and misplaced arrogance. Stereotypes? You've stereotyped me a hundred times, and I'm EXACTLY the kind of fan NASCAR wants and is marketing to. NASCAR isn't stereotyping anyone, you nitwit! They want diversity, and they want it for marketing reasons, and maybe even a little bit to balance their books concerning fans like you and minorities and others, etc...

It's not about rich, either, it's about disposable income. Marketing is pretty complex, and I've spent 10 years trying to figure it out and am just now getting a good grasp. I'm trying hard to be diplomatic when I don't have to be...You know, It wouldn't kill you to concede here.

tony hipchest
09-05-2007, 08:30 PM
Bravo! That's exactly the kind of response I expect from you, and you didn't disappoint. It's a mix of ignorance and misplaced arrogance. Stereotypes? You've stereotyped me a hundred times, and I'm EXACTLY the kind of fan NASCAR wants and is marketing to. NASCAR isn't stereotyping anyone, you nitwit! They want diversity, and they want it for marketing reasons, and maybe even a little bit to balance their books concerning fans like you and minorities and others, etc...

It's not about rich, either, it's about disposable income. Marketing is pretty complex, and I've spent 10 years trying to figure it out and am just now getting a good grasp. I'm trying hard to be diplomatic when I don't have to be...You know, It wouldn't kill you to concede here.:chuckle: its obvious marketing isnt that complex. if it makes you feel better, i can concede that i would probably have a tough time weaving a basket the 1st or 2nd go around. after that, it would be like tying my shoes.

if i were on the verge of a concession a person like me would probably resort to personal attacks as one final battle stand, now wouldnt they?

again, good luck with the bigotry.

tony hipchest
09-06-2007, 12:56 AM
Bravo! That's exactly the kind of response I expect from you, and you didn't disappoint. It's a mix of ignorance and misplaced arrogance. Stereotypes? You've stereotyped me a hundred times, NASCAR isn't stereotyping anyone, you nitwit! They want diversity, and they want it for marketing reasons, and maybe even a little bit to balance their books concerning fans like you and minorities and others, etc...

It's not about rich, either, it's about disposable income. Marketing is pretty complex, and I've spent 10 years trying to figure it out and am just now getting a good grasp. I'm trying hard to be diplomatic when I don't have to be...You know, It wouldn't kill you to concede here.this is just too good to not touch back on.

misplaced arrogance?

and I'm EXACTLY the kind of fan NASCAR wants and is marketing to.

Stereotypes? You've stereotyped me a hundred times,

a hundered times huh? list them. i simply called you out for what you are. a gordon fan. no shame in that is there? you can deny it and i may actually believe it this time.

NASCAR isn't stereotyping anyone.

exactly! the only one stereotyping here is YOU.

They want diversity, and they want it for marketing reasons,are you really suggesting that nascars marketing directives are towards white, republican, above average income, persons such as yourself? LOL nascar has got that market sewn up (note that i am using your own argument against you). i guess with the juan pablo montoya experiment and busch races in mexico, nascar doesnt know whether it is coming or going, huh?

wrong. nascar has got you hooked and they have shifted their campaign away from your types several years ago. (for those not keen upon sales techniques... this is what we call staying ahead of the market as opposed to chasing it). thinking of yourself as the representative of "diversity" is hilarious. you are as typical of a NASCAR fan as it gets. *waits for you to inject redneck stereotypes here*

misplaced arrogance:flap:

revefsreleets
09-07-2007, 06:30 AM
Oh Tony, this is becoming pathetic. But you continue to post, and I guess it's kind of admirable that you keep fighting even after the war is over.

First, your insistence that marketing is simple is ridiculous, so let's put that to rest. Now I certainly understand your position. You (clearly) don't know much about it, and obviously don't care much about it, or have any interest in it, so for you it probably is fairly simple. But this type of logic is fallacious. For instance, it's like arguing that since the space shuttle and a paper airplane both function at the most basic level using the same laws of physics, the space shuttle is not complex. In fact, the space shuttle has over a million working parts and is the most complex vehicle ever designed. But they both fly, so...

Furthermore, I'm quite sure that Harvard and Wharton wouldn't offer PhD programs in marketing if it was "simple". I mean, think about it. Marketing is a multi-billion dollar business, and it permeates our lives. From the morning paper, to tv, radio, internet, magazines, billboard, even church bulletins, marketing is ubiquitous. Marketing combines philosophy, art, logic, sociology, psychology, anthropology, even mathematics (statistics, anyone?) all to form almost a science of influencing people. It might even be correct to say that marketing is one of the most complex professions in the world.

Finally, addressing this mish-mosh of stuff in the last post of yours. Nascar doesn't want me? Insane! They need people with disposable income, preferably younger rather than old, and they vigorously re-branded themselves to appeal to people just like me. As for the idea that Nascar "stopped marketing to me", again, ridiculous. Do you think Chrysler or Toyota is done advertising to the people who have already bought their cars? Absolutely not. It's all about building and KEEPING brand loyalty. Nascar will, in fact, never stop marketing to me. As for diversity, one of the biggest reason Nascar wants to expand it's diversity program (besides the obvious wedge into foreign markets) is to appease a more highbrow crowd. If you want to market to people in Manhattan and Seattle, you can't be perceived as cross burning rednecks.

Finally, let's stop with the "bigotry". It's clear you are misusing the word. "Stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own." That certainly sounds like one of the people posting in this thread, and I'll give you a hint: It's not me.

I almost can't wait to see what kind of irrelevant opinion of yours you offer as retort.

tony hipchest
09-09-2007, 07:54 PM
real mature move dragging this conversation into the locker room. i was more than happy making you look foolish in the confines of this back room thread that hardly anyone even reads.

i dont blame you for desperately seeking out other steelersfever posters to back you up though. you can use all the help you can get.

comparing marketing to rocket science has got to be the finest example of "misguided arrogance" i have ever seen.

i'll get back to the rest of your rhetoric when i am more bored. for now i would prefer to watch a freaking cowboys game and talk some football.

until then, this will sit on the back burner along with some of LITP's bogus diatribe that still needs addressed.

i dont know what is worse. him thinking the jets are a great team or you thinking marketing is rocket science.

very trivial claims on both fronts. since youre a fellow steeler fan and nascar fan, i may bestow you the honor of having your trash aknowledged first. although litp is doing his typical preening around the board, so it just depends on who deserves to be busted down a notch,

commercial breaks over. back to the game....

revefsreleets
09-12-2007, 09:08 PM
LOL!

Are you serious, though? I mean, I need to know. Do you really think you are making me "look foolish"? You cited one measly source throughout. Your whole argument is based on riffing off your own opinion, and on a subject you are woefully uneducated on. On top of cyclical arguments, you actually tried taking my own points and, without converting them, tried to make them your own in some kind of ****ed up reverse, reverse psychology (which is much more likely you actually citing my own earlier logical arguments as your new facts) as your own arguments.

In fact, I've never debated someone who was more messy and all over the place. When Atlanta Dan got frustrated because he could only quote quickie op/ed pieces, he put me on ignore and let it go. Well, actually, that's not true. He then started a "look at me" thread where he called me out and looked for sympathy, but I digress.

As always, the invitation is open, but for Christs sake, will you read at least SOMETHING about the topic before you trip all over your uninformed opinions again?

http://www.marketingpower.com/

http://www.marketingprofs.com/2/whatismarketing.asp

http://www.brandrepublic.com/marketing/

714,000 books on this “simple subject”
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=Marketing&index=books&page=1

http://www.marketing.org/

http://www.marketingvox.com/

Most excellent

http://www.answers.com/topic/marketing?cat=biz-fin

revefsreleets
09-13-2007, 06:33 PM
I got a PM that reminded me to keep this all in perspective (not from a mod, just another poster who likes both our "material"). I may have been a bit harsh in my last post, Tony, and I apologize. My position doesn't change one iota, and I still think you argued yourself into a corner that you had no way out of, but that doesn't give me the right to be disrespectful.

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 06:54 PM
I got a PM that reminded me to keep this all in perspective (not from a mod, just another poster who likes both our "material"). I may have been a bit harsh in my last post, Tony, and I apologize. My position doesn't change one iota, and I still think you argued yourself into a corner that you had no way out of, but that doesn't give me the right to be disrespectful.no problem, and apology accepted (although probably unnecessary).

i enjoy the banter and dont expect you to change your position. BTW, im about halfway through the 714,000 books you cited as a source, and i'll get back when im done :chuckle:

this is like a fast paced game of pente, as opposed to a long drawn out game of chess. when i get backed into a corner, i have no problem, saying "good one", wiping the stones off the board, and getting on to the next game.

my stones are still on the board in regards to the jr. fans all being rednecks, and marketing being compared to rocket science.

:cheers:

oh, and a little off subject, but i just had a nice short convo with litp about the comparrisons of hendrick (NASCAR), mcclaren (F-1), and patriots (NFL) all being on top of their leagues, yet all getting busted for cheating. :wink02:

(i think dragging atlanta dan into the conversation may be what prompted the PM)

revefsreleets
09-13-2007, 07:46 PM
no problem, and apology accepted (although probably unnecessary).

i enjoy the banter and dont expect you to change your position. BTW, im about halfway through the 714,000 books you cited as a source, and i'll get back when im done :chuckle:

this is like a fast paced game of pente, as opposed to a long drawn out game of chess. when i get backed into a corner, i have no problem, saying "good one", wiping the stones off the board, and getting on to the next game.

my stones are still on the board in regards to the jr. fans all being rednecks, and marketing being compared to rocket science.

:cheers:

oh, and a little off subject, but i just had a nice short convo with litp about the comparrisons of hendrick (NASCAR), mcclaren (F-1), and patriots (NFL) all being on top of their leagues, yet all getting busted for cheating. :wink02:

(i think dragging atlanta dan into the conversation may be what prompted the PM)

Most of Dale Jr's fans aren't the problem, and still aren't who I called out. Marketing is still Einsteinian in it's complexity. NASCAR is irrelevant in the NFL argument because it's 53 players versus thousands of hidden moving parts, but, you know, other than that, right on.

Oh, and AD drug ME into it by starting the secondary thread all about me without naming me, and no, that wasn't mentioned at all in the PM.