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Aussie_steeler
09-12-2007, 07:44 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/09/12/amd_ericmangini.jpg

Mangini apparently knew about the video tactics from his days as a Pats assistant, but Sunday was the first time Jets security caught New England with its hand in the cookie jar.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2007/09/12/2007-09-12_eric_mangini_exposes_bill_belichicks_spy.html

stillers4me
09-12-2007, 07:57 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if the whole green dot in the helmet deal was meant as a warning to NE. We're on to you so knock it off. With proof of continued shananigans from the Pats, Goodell gave the thumbs up to "book'em Dano".

Aussie_steeler
09-12-2007, 08:06 AM
A little more gold for the board and our resident pats fans

A former Patriots [team stats] cameraman said yesterday that Bill Belichick had a reputation for breaking the rules even when he was a head coach in Cleveland.

The ex-cameraman, who worked under Raymond Berry and Bill Parcells and asked that his name not be used, said rival video men in Cleveland always appeared to be ?sneaky.?

?They were always kind of suspicious,? he said yesterday. ?When Belichick was a coach there they seemed to be up to no good. The guys working with the Patriots used to talk to the Browns guys and they were always acting kind of hush-hush and sneaky. We didn?t have anything concrete; it was just a feeling.?

The cameraman was as shocked as anyone to hear the allegations leveled against the Patriots on Sunday night by the Jets, who charged the Pats were using a camera to steal defensive signals. But he wasn?t surprised they employed a practice he labeled commonplace.

What he can?t believe is they let themselves get caught.

?We used to film opposing players all the time,? he said. ?The coaches would ask us to focus on someone in the pregame and then they?d monitor it in the coaches booth. It?s a common thing everyone does. I just can?t believe the Patriots were so brazen about it.?

He described one way the Pats could have theoretically benefited from taping the Jets coaches. Because there?s a monitor and printer in the coaches booth and on the sidelines for the legal Polaroids teams are allowed to consult during the game, coaches would have a spot to view video.

?They could split off the feed that goes to the printers and back to the booth and just tap into the feed from the camera,? he said. ?There?s a trunk with printers and monitors on the field, and they could have tapped into that, too.?

Put those images in front of men who know what they?re looking at, and it would be a huge advantage. What surprised him most, he said, was an obvious precaution the Patriots failed to take.

?I never actually recorded anything,? he said, ?so as not to leave evidence!?

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1030972

Arrogance or Complacency???

Atlanta Dan
09-12-2007, 08:15 AM
2001 championship game? I hope the league takes a look at that tape. Every running play the Pats had 10 in the box.

Of course on every running play the Steelers also had Kordell Stewart under center - I am surprised with Kordell the Pats did not play 11 in the box

Atlanta Dan
09-12-2007, 08:23 AM
John Clayton's take (always did like that guy) - on top of the other teams who 'bent the rules' I believe the 49ers also did some creative accounting.

Of course that was not when Roger "Zero Tolerance" Goodell was the Commissioner.

If I was Gene Upshaw I would be pounding the table here to make points with my membership - if playerrs are getting whacked why not the most high profile coach in the league?

In addition, the Pats got caught doing this in New York, not Jacksonville or Nashville - the Post, Daily News & Mike + Mad Dog will have a field day with this.

Livinginthe past
09-12-2007, 09:56 AM
I'd prefer to focus on some other areas of that article (surprisingly)


A former Patriots [team stats] cameraman said yesterday that Bill Belichick had a reputation for breaking the rules even when he was a head coach in Cleveland.

The ex-cameraman, who worked under Raymond Berry and Bill Parcells and asked that his name not be used, said rival video men in Cleveland always appeared to be “sneaky.”

“They were always kind of suspicious,” he said yesterday. “When Belichick was a coach there they seemed to be up to no good. The guys working with the Patriots used to talk to the Browns guys and they were always acting kind of hush-hush and sneaky. We didn’t have anything concrete; it was just a feeling.”

The cameraman was as shocked as anyone to hear the allegations leveled against the Patriots on Sunday night by the Jets, who charged the Pats were using a camera to steal defensive signals. But he wasn’t surprised they employed a practice he labeled commonplace.
What he can’t believe is they let themselves get caught.

“We used to film opposing players all the time,” he said. “The coaches would ask us to focus on someone in the pregame and then they’d monitor it in the coaches booth. It’s a common thing everyone does. I just can’t believe the Patriots were so brazen about it.”

He described one way the Pats could have theoretically benefited from taping the Jets coaches. Because there’s a monitor and printer in the coaches booth and on the sidelines for the legal Polaroids teams are allowed to consult during the game, coaches would have a spot to view video.

“They could split off the feed that goes to the printers and back to the booth and just tap into the feed from the camera,” he said. “There’s a trunk with printers and monitors on the field, and they could have tapped into that, too.”

Put those images in front of men who know what they’re looking at, and it would be a huge advantage. What surprised him most, he said, was an obvious precaution the Patriots failed to take.

“I never actually recorded anything,” he said, “so as not to leave evidence!”



http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1030972

Arrogance or Complacency???

So, I guess the crime was the complacency that led to getting caught.

I can't believe the Patriots didn't have their cameraman take more reps in the pre-season to stop him making this rookie mistake.

I guess Roger G. wont be too happy about the liberties the Patriots have taken despite warnings to stop doing it - couple of mid-round picks maybe?

Livinginthe past
09-12-2007, 09:59 AM
Of course that was not when Roger "Zero Tolerance" Goodell was the Commissioner.

If I was Gene Upshaw I would be pounding the table here to make points with my membership - if playerrs are getting whacked why not the most high profile coach in the league?

In addition, the Pats got caught doing this in New York, not Jacksonville or Nashville - the Post, Daily News & Mike + Mad Dog will have a field day with this.

He is a guy that likes to make statements.

Within reason, the Patriots cannot complain with what he hands down as punishment seeing as they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

One thing to note is that the Patriots destroyed the Jets without the benefit of this 'coaching aid' in the 2nd half - I read that the camera was confiscated just prior to or at half time.

Oh, and I realise the 'smack potential' is virtually endless - thats something the Patriots and their fans are just going to have to wear.

Best thing we can do is go out sunday and beat the Chargers and prove we are an elite team.

Livinginthe past
09-12-2007, 10:06 AM
Of course on every running play the Steelers also had Kordell Stewart under center - I am surprised with Kordell the Pats did not play 11 in the box

Ouch. :toofunny:

rbryan
09-12-2007, 10:06 AM
Keep telling yourself Bellichick had nothing to do with it. While your at it go ahead and joke around about a "slap on the wrist." This sh!t storm is just beginning. A best case scenario for the patsies is that they come away with only thier reputation as a class organization completely shattered and an asterick besides those bogus SB wins.Worst case??? I guess that remains to be seen.

Livinginthe past
09-12-2007, 10:09 AM
Keep telling yourself Bellichick had nothing to do with it. While your at it go ahead and joke around about a "slap on the wrist." This sh!t storm is just beginning. A best case scenario for the patsies is that they come away with only thier reputation as a class organization completely shattered and an asterick besides those bogus SB wins.Worst case??? I guess that remains to be seen.

Where did I say that Belichick had nothing to do with it?

We've moved way past the stage where BB can deny knowledge of this.

I think you've possibly got your 'worst cases' and 'best case' mixed up.

Try it the other way round and it begins....begins...to sound a little sane.

I also don't understand why ESPN were so keen to help break the story to the masses, what with them being knee deep in a conspiracy with the Patriots since 2000.

ps you sound like a Seahwks fan with all this talk of asterisks next to SB's :wink02:

rbryan
09-12-2007, 10:49 AM
Your smug attitude doesn't cut it anymore Nigel. Face it, your precious patsies are what I've always said they were. You can put lipstick on this pig all you want. Everyone is wise to "Belichick mystique" now.

Atlanta Dan
09-12-2007, 11:15 AM
Sounds like the Pats players are pretty embarassed about this.

On Monday, Patriots players asked about the incident expressed hope that the allegations were false.

"We put too many hours in as individuals and as a team to have to go out there and cheat," third-year cornerback Ellis Hobbs said. "If it's true, it's true, then obviously we're in the wrong. Like I said, I'm standing behind my team, my coaches, my personnel, our staff. I don't believe we do those type of things."

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/12/nfl_reportedly_faults_patriots/

I am not equating this with felony dogfighting, but the statement from Hobbs about standing behind the coaches and not believing the Pats would do this sort of thing reminds me of the initial reaction of some of the Falcons when the Vick dogfighting allegations first surfaced.

MACH1
09-12-2007, 11:19 AM
Their pissed cause they spent all that time learning the other teams signals.

Atlanta Dan
09-12-2007, 11:22 AM
Belichick had this statement this morning

Belichick said he spoke with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell this week about a "videotaping procedure" during last Sunday's game and "my interpretation of the rules." So it's just a matter of differing statutory constructions we are dealing with here:sofunny:

"At this point, we have not been notified of the league's ruling," Belichick said in a statement. "Although it remains a league matter, I want to apologize to everyone who has been affected, most of all ownership, staff and players. Following the league's decision, I will have further comment." How about apologizing to the other teams you filmed?

Then someone had the audacity to ask a question, which prompted this response:

At a news conference, Belichick refused to answer questions about the accusations, saying he said all he could in his statement. When pressed for a response, Belichick replied: "Are there any questions about the Chargers? Anyone want to talk about the football game?"

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3015478

Nothing to see here - move along

tony hipchest
09-12-2007, 11:28 AM
"Are there any questions about the Chargers? Anyone want to talk about the football game?"



sure bill. "are you still planning on using the film of coaches signals you gathered from the chargers last year in the playoffs, this sunday?"


:sofunny:

stillhead
09-12-2007, 11:31 AM
bill is a genius. thanks to jvc.

alittlejazzbird
09-12-2007, 11:54 AM
I liked these quotes from the Associated Press story:

The statement follows a report that the NFL is considering punishing the Patriots for spying. Belichick refused to elaborate on the statement several times during a news conference. After about 15 minutes discussing Sunday's game, he was pressed harder on his "interpretation of the rules," and the coach walked out of the room.

The statement was issued 10 minutes before the standard Wednesday media availability at which Belichick, like all NFL coaches, discusses Sunday's game. But few in the media workroom had come to hear about the San Diego Chargers. Belichick begged for a football question.

"Any questions about the Chargers?" he pleaded in his standard other-things-to-do monotone. "Want to talk about the football game? If not, I think that statement pretty much covers it."

Class act, that Belichick. Given his relative failure as Browns coach, I was always somewhat surprised by his success with the Patriots. I think I'm starting to understand at least part of it now.

Belichick said he spoke with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell this week about a "videotaping procedure" during last Sunday's game and "my interpretation of the rules."

So now Belichick's trying to imply that he just had a little problem with interpretation of the rules....Interpretation of the rules??? Are you kidding me? What's there to interpret? You aren't allowed the video cameras. Period. What part of this is unclear?

No video recording devices of any kind are permitted on the field, in the locker room or in the coaches' booth during a game, according to league rules.

ShutDown24
09-12-2007, 12:03 PM
Everything he and or Kraft has said = We did it. No one has said we didn't do it yet.

HometownGal
09-12-2007, 12:11 PM
Belidick is a TOOL. I've lost any respect I had for the jackass, which wasn't much to begin with.

alittlejazzbird
09-12-2007, 12:14 PM
From today's New York Daily News:
**************************************************
Eric Mangini exposes Bill Belichick's spy games
BY RICH CIMINI
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Wednesday, September 12th 2007, 4:00 AM

As if the handshake hubbub wasn't enough, now the Jets and Patriots must deal with SpyGate.

Mangini apparently knew about the video tactics from his days as a Pats assistant, but Sunday was the first time Jets security caught New England with its hand in the cookie jar.

Armed with counter-intelligence from Eric Mangini, the Jets apparently have succeeded in busting the Patriots' spy ring.

A former assistant under Bill Belichick, Mangini arrived in New York last year with an insider's knowledge of the Patriots' sign-stealing surveillance tactics and he shared the dirty little secret with members of the Jets' organization, a person with knowledge of the matter informed the Daily News yesterday.

It wasn't until the fifth Mangini-Belichick showdown - last Sunday - that the Jets were able to catch the Patriots. Tipped off by Jets security, an NFL security official confiscated a video camera and tape from a Patriots employee at the Meadowlands, and the evidence is believed to be damning.

Commissioner Roger Goodell hasn't made a final decision, according to a high-level source, but he wants to resolve the issue ASAP. A league spokesman refuted an ESPN report last night that said Goodell already has determined that the Patriots violated league rules.

An announcement could be made by the end of the week. The Patriots, who will have a chance to present their side to Goodell by Friday, could be stripped of multiple draft choices and/or fined heavily.

Matt Estrella, 26, a Patriots video assistant, was nabbed just before halftime of the Jets' 38-14 loss on opening day. He allegedly videotaped hand signals from the Jets' defensive coaches on the sideline, defying an edict from Goodell, who warned teams before the season that he wouldn't tolerate cheating. Several teams have suspected the Patriots of stealing signs. So did the Jets, thanks to Mangini.

"(The Jets) knew they did it," the person with knowledge of the situation said in an e-mail to the Daily News. "They caught the guy a year ago, but couldn't do anything about it. When Eric came, he said that's what they used to do. Bill is going to be (ticked) at Eric. He kissed and told."

Mangini, hired last year by the Jets, coached under Belichick from 2000 to 2005 in New England. Their once-close relationship has frayed, and this latest chapter in the Border War has raised the hostility to all-time levels.

New details came to light yesterday. The cameraman, wearing a team polo shirt under the league-mandated sideline photographer's vest, was stopped by security as he tried to enter the New England locker room before halftime, sources said. An animated discussion ensued, involving league security, Jets security and Patriots security.

The dispute, which occurred in the bowels of the stadium, lasted more than an hour, virtually the entire second half. At one point, it became so heated that New Jersey state troopers were summoned as a precaution, a source said. The Jets apparently were trying to confiscate the videotape, which wound up in the possession of NFL security. The tape was placed in a box, sealed and forwarded to the league.

"He looked scared to death," one source said of Estrella.

It's unclear if the Patriots had a chance to review the tape before it was seized, raising the question of whether it helped them in the game. They certainly played like they knew the Jets' strategy. In the second half, Tom Brady completed 10 of 11 passes for 138 yards and a touchdown.

"He seemed like he knew what we were doing," safety Kerry Rhodes said.

No video recording devices of any kind are permitted on the field, in the locker room or in the coaches' booth during a game, according to league rules.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft said yesterday it would be inappropriate to comment directly on the accusations, but he hinted that the Jets' actions may have stemmed from being envious of his team's success.

"When you're successful in anything, a lot of people like to try to take you down and do different things," he told reporters at a charity appearance. "We understand that."

The Jets have declined comment, saying it's a league matter.

Belichick, addressing the situation for the first time late Monday on his Boston radio show, acknowledged he was aware of the incident at the game. Beyond that, he provided little insight, saying, "It's a league thing. Whatever the deal is, which I don't even know the details of, a lot of it, we'll comply."

This isn't the first time the Jets and Patriots have accused each other of wrongdoing. A year ago, the Patriots filed tampering charges against the Jets, claiming they conducted improper discussions with Deion Branch when the wide receiver was given permission to seek a trade. After an intensive, four-month investigation, the Jets were exonerated.

Patriots bashing apparently has become popular. Chargers running back LaDainian Tomlinson, who questioned Belichick's integrity after a playoff loss last January, said Monday he wasn't surprised by Spy Gate.

"I think the Patriots actually live by the saying, 'If you're not cheating, you're not trying,'" he told reporters in San Diego.

The Chargers and Patriots meet this Sunday.

rbryan
09-12-2007, 12:26 PM
From today's New York Daily News:
**************************************************
Eric Mangini exposes Bill Belichick's spy games
BY RICH CIMINI
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Wednesday, September 12th 2007, 4:00 AM

As if the handshake hubbub wasn't enough, now the Jets and Patriots must deal with SpyGate.

Mangini apparently knew about the video tactics from his days as a Pats assistant, but Sunday was the first time Jets security caught New England with its hand in the cookie jar.

Armed with counter-intelligence from Eric Mangini, the Jets apparently have succeeded in busting the Patriots' spy ring.

A former assistant under Bill Belichick, Mangini arrived in New York last year with an insider's knowledge of the Patriots' sign-stealing surveillance tactics and he shared the dirty little secret with members of the Jets' organization, a person with knowledge of the matter informed the Daily News yesterday.

It wasn't until the fifth Mangini-Belichick showdown - last Sunday - that the Jets were able to catch the Patriots. Tipped off by Jets security, an NFL security official confiscated a video camera and tape from a Patriots employee at the Meadowlands, and the evidence is believed to be damning.

Commissioner Roger Goodell hasn't made a final decision, according to a high-level source, but he wants to resolve the issue ASAP. A league spokesman refuted an ESPN report last night that said Goodell already has determined that the Patriots violated league rules.

An announcement could be made by the end of the week. The Patriots, who will have a chance to present their side to Goodell by Friday, could be stripped of multiple draft choices and/or fined heavily.

Matt Estrella, 26, a Patriots video assistant, was nabbed just before halftime of the Jets' 38-14 loss on opening day. He allegedly videotaped hand signals from the Jets' defensive coaches on the sideline, defying an edict from Goodell, who warned teams before the season that he wouldn't tolerate cheating. Several teams have suspected the Patriots of stealing signs. So did the Jets, thanks to Mangini.

"(The Jets) knew they did it," the person with knowledge of the situation said in an e-mail to the Daily News. "They caught the guy a year ago, but couldn't do anything about it. When Eric came, he said that's what they used to do. Bill is going to be (ticked) at Eric. He kissed and told."

Mangini, hired last year by the Jets, coached under Belichick from 2000 to 2005 in New England. Their once-close relationship has frayed, and this latest chapter in the Border War has raised the hostility to all-time levels.

New details came to light yesterday. The cameraman, wearing a team polo shirt under the league-mandated sideline photographer's vest, was stopped by security as he tried to enter the New England locker room before halftime, sources said. An animated discussion ensued, involving league security, Jets security and Patriots security.

The dispute, which occurred in the bowels of the stadium, lasted more than an hour, virtually the entire second half. At one point, it became so heated that New Jersey state troopers were summoned as a precaution, a source said. The Jets apparently were trying to confiscate the videotape, which wound up in the possession of NFL security. The tape was placed in a box, sealed and forwarded to the league.

"He looked scared to death," one source said of Estrella.

It's unclear if the Patriots had a chance to review the tape before it was seized, raising the question of whether it helped them in the game. They certainly played like they knew the Jets' strategy. In the second half, Tom Brady completed 10 of 11 passes for 138 yards and a touchdown.

"He seemed like he knew what we were doing," safety Kerry Rhodes said.

No video recording devices of any kind are permitted on the field, in the locker room or in the coaches' booth during a game, according to league rules.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft said yesterday it would be inappropriate to comment directly on the accusations, but he hinted that the Jets' actions may have stemmed from being envious of his team's success.
"When you're successful in anything, a lot of people like to try to take you down and do different things," he told reporters at a charity appearance. "We understand that."

The Jets have declined comment, saying it's a league matter.

Belichick, addressing the situation for the first time late Monday on his Boston radio show, acknowledged he was aware of the incident at the game. Beyond that, he provided little insight, saying, "It's a league thing. Whatever the deal is, which I don't even know the details of, a lot of it, we'll comply."

This isn't the first time the Jets and Patriots have accused each other of wrongdoing. A year ago, the Patriots filed tampering charges against the Jets, claiming they conducted improper discussions with Deion Branch when the wide receiver was given permission to seek a trade. After an intensive, four-month investigation, the Jets were exonerated.

Patriots bashing apparently has become popular. Chargers running back LaDainian Tomlinson, who questioned Belichick's integrity after a playoff loss last January, said Monday he wasn't surprised by Spy Gate.

"I think the Patriots actually live by the saying, 'If you're not cheating, you're not trying,'" he told reporters in San Diego.

The Chargers and Patriots meet this Sunday.

Way to go Kraft, you're a real class act. Yeah everyone is envious because you're just "better" right??. I always knew this guy was a scumbag, I'm so sick of hearing about the high and mighty Patsies. Karma is a bitch

SteelerFan091472
09-12-2007, 12:48 PM
I found these pictures of the alleged Patriots cameraman while I was on a Yankees board and this poster found these pictures on a Jets forum. The poster on the Yankees forum said that the person who took these pictures didn't even realize that he was catching this cameraman in the act.

http://touchdown.org/pats-camera.jpg

Here are more pictures when the Patriots offense is on the field.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1678/jetspats117je9.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/3821/jetspats116wu0.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2003/jetspats118la6.jpg

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2696/jetspats146vu5.jpg

However, this person stops recording while the Patriots defense is on the field.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/778/jetspats147mq4.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6795/jetspats148sf4.jpg

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5586/jetspats149mk1.jpg

Atlanta Dan
09-12-2007, 12:58 PM
Thanks - as seen in the above photos, one of the minor amusing duplicities noted in one of the posted articles is that the Pats had their spy decked out in the Canon vest that the NFL is making field photographers wear this year (who submitted the false credential for that or did the Pats just take a Canon vest out of their Gillette Field inventory?)

It hit the fan when the spy tried to enter the Pats lockerroom while wearing the vest and was detained by security. Either security mistakenly thought he was trying to crash the locker room or Mangenius had the sting ready to go by halftime.

Think we can look forward to lots of warm embraces between Belichick and Mangini at mid-field in the future? Now that Cowher is gone, the Cowher-Billick mutual loathing has definitely been replaced by Mangini-Belichick as the most bitter coaching rivavlry in the league.

rbryan
09-12-2007, 01:06 PM
Hard to get all misty eyed about Mangini and the poor Jets, after all this crap didn't bother Mangenious when he was still with the patsies.

MACH1
09-12-2007, 01:10 PM
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TS1FWSE2L._SS500_.jpg

http://members.aol.com/AUTrailerPark/graphics/excuses_for_dummies2.jpg

Steelman16
09-12-2007, 01:22 PM
Now they're trying to turn Mangini into Judas! Personally, now I know why he jumped on the Jets job. Face the Pats twice a year and let's do some detective work on the side. Then we'll catch 'em red handed and bust 'em once and for all.

Can't wait for the next Jets-Pats game this year. :flap: Hilarious would equal the Pats get a butt-whooping. :toofunny:

Atlanta Dan
09-12-2007, 01:25 PM
Hard to get all misty eyed about Mangini and the poor Jets, after all this crap didn't bother Mangenious when he was still with the patsies.

Certainly explains why Belichick was so upset when Mangini left with state secrets for a division rival whom Belichick knew he would be facing twice a year, doesn't it?
Belichick probably was encouraging Mangenius to wait for a NFC HC job to open up.:sofunny:

No question Mangenius stopped this to end a competitive edge, not because he was morally indignant.

Since Mangini knew, Belichick had to know Mangini would try to out the Pats on this.
Given that Belichick continued to do it anyhow, he is even more arrogant than I thought or this actually may be a more crucial part of Belichick's masterful ability to adjust on gameday than I have been joking it is.

rbryan
09-12-2007, 01:40 PM
Belichicks arrogance is second to none. He obviously felt like he was above all the rules. How stupid do you have to be to send the cameraman in that close. I guess no one ever heard of a zoom lense in NE? He wasn't worried because it never crossed his mind that he could get caught.

What a piece of work, this guy soaks up all the accolades from the media. Writes a book to "share the genius that is Bellichick" with the world (lol) and now this.

revefsreleets
09-12-2007, 01:58 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned all the other things they have been accused of. The Packers accused them of videotaping, but apparently they have been warned about this before even that. Del Rio accused them of tampering with their helmet speakers and blacking out the signal in the playoff game. Teams have accused the Pats of stealing game plans before games. Of course before Sunday all this seemed like paranoia, but now what? Once a team has been caught like this, who's to say what other means of cheating they have employed?

I have a sneaking suspicion that if the league starts digging, they are going to find a lot more dirt on the Pats. It may not even matter that other teams cheat to a lessor or greater extent than them: They were the one's who got caught.

SteelerFanInCA
09-12-2007, 02:14 PM
John Clayton's take (always did like that guy) - on top of the other teams who 'bent the rules' I believe the 49ers also did some creative accounting.

Clayton is another ass clown. Billicheat will definitely be less of a person.

rbryan
09-12-2007, 02:31 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned all the other things they have been accused of. The Packers accused them of videotaping, but apparently they have been warned about this before even that. Del Rio accused them of tampering with their helmet speakers and blacking out the signal in the playoff game. Teams have accused the Pats of stealing game plans before games. Of course before Sunday all this seemed like paranoia, but now what? Once a team has been caught like this, who's to say what other means of cheating they have employed?

I have a sneaking suspicion that if the league starts digging, they are going to find a lot more dirt on the Pats. It may not even matter that other teams cheat to a lessor or greater extent than them: They were the one's who got caught.

Its just a matter of time. This story is a long way from over. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Bellichick ends up resigning over this. If his reaction to the media scrutiny so far is any indication, I don't see him being able to handle this at all. Quite a fall from grace wouldn't you say??

tony hipchest
09-12-2007, 02:32 PM
:scratchchin: i wonder what the other 43 Hall of Fame voters are thinking.

http://www.post-gazette.com/steelers/blogngold/


Does cheating tarnish the record?

Ed Bouchette weighs in on the flap involving alleged spying and signal stealing by the New England Patriots:

I'm one of 44 current selectors to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. With three Super Bowl victories in three appearances with the Patriots, Belichick would seem to be a shoo-in to be elected in his first try.

This cheating scandal, though, changes things, at least for me. What's the difference between Belichick and Mark McGwire? Belichick cheated to gain an edge, something forbidden by the league and, as far as I know, not done by most other NFL teams (while McGwire has been charged with nothing). This to me not only taints the three Super Bowl victories won by the Patriots, it throws a cloud around Belichick's entire coaching career.

Looking back, is it any wonder that some Steelers players said after their two championship game losses to New England that it appeared the Patriots knew what they were going to run before they ran it?

Some will respond that there's no difference in what Belichick and the Patriots did than what the Steelers allegedly did in the 1970s, using steroids to pump themselves up. Not only have those charges never been close to being proven, even if they were doing it, steroids were not banned by the NFL at the time and there was nothing illegal about it. Plus, coach Chuck Noll was hardly promoting it.

I'm not saying I won't vote for Belichick whenever he retires and becomes eligible. But the only reason to vote for him is because he won football games, and now he's been caught cheating in order to win football games. So why should I vote for him?

Atlanta Dan
09-12-2007, 02:41 PM
Its just a matter of time. This story is a long way from over. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Bellichick ends up resigning over this. If his reaction to the media scrutiny so far is any indication, I don't see him being able to handle this at all. Quite a fall from grace wouldn't you say??

He was not on audio himself but a national radio sports talk show (Fox or ESPN)
quoted Dave Wannstedt last night as vaguely describing "unbelievable" conduct when the Dolphins would visit New England.

This is more analogous to the NBA's problem with the ref who bet on games than Vick/Pacman & friends commiting felonies off the field. It is not as serious as gambling on games but it is an attempt to improperly affect the outcome of games and directly impacts the integrity of the competition.

I will be interested in hearing the takes of Belichick's ex-mentor Parcells and, to see if he actually is going to do anything except josh around on camera until his next coaching gig, Cowher. If Tomlin knew these allegations were floating around the league, Parcells & Cowher surely knew as well. But given how afraid the networks are of the NFL (remember when ESPN pulled that fictional show?) I really wonder how much digging the NFL wants on this..

NESteelerfan
09-12-2007, 02:44 PM
I'm sitting here listening to the local radio sports show,which is fairly popular. The host is joined by regular guests Ex -ball players Steve Deossie and Fred Smerlas. They keep saying that its not an advantage for that particular game,just the next meeting.The host is claiming that people on the sidelines watching for the signs can figure the calls out faster... They are trying some major damage control,I hate those PomPom wavers but this is the crap I gotta listen to. They stream online for some good listening. WEEI.com

rbryan
09-12-2007, 02:53 PM
Sounds like Ed B probably wasn't going to vote for him anyway lol. Like most Steeler fans this only validates what we suspected for a while now.

Someone else used the analogy from the movie Casino when the slots got hit three times in a few hours. "Do you know what the odds of that are??? Its f^%king impossible"

I'm thinking the real conversation that lead up to Tagliabue resigning as commisioner went something like this

" Listen, if you didn't know you were being scammed your too f^%king stupid to keep this job. If you did know you were in on it. Either way you're out. Get out!! Go on!! "

Can you tell how much I'm loving this story?? lol

Black@Gold Forever32
09-12-2007, 05:19 PM
Well here is my opinion on the matter......I don't know how much of an advantage this really gave the Pats? I'm sure they could have beaten the Jets regardless....But its against NFL rules so Bilichick and the Pats organization should be punished.....All this boils down to is that Bilichick's arrogance finally came back to bight him hard....lol Did he even pull this crap at Cleveland when he was HC? The Browns did make the play-offs in 94 with my cousin Vinny at QB...lol

83-Steelers-43
09-12-2007, 05:35 PM
I wanted to wait some time while all the facts were gathered before I decided to comment on this issue.

IMO, the NFL should suspend Belichick for four games. That's how many games you suspend a player for taking steroids. A different form of cheating, but cheating nonetheless. Why not suspend the head coach for four games? Also, I feel they should have a number one and a number two or three draft pick taken away from them. I doubt both of those scenarios will occur, but that's what should be done in my opinion.

What I find funny out of all of this. Every year that the Patriots won a Super Bowl we always heard from the "experts" that the Patriots never had the greatest players, but that they were a very smart football team. Now I see why. IMO, this incident has completely changed my opinion of Belichick. While I never had anything against the guy (yeah, he's a dry stiff with the personality of a brick wall), I always respected the guy for what he did (or I thought he did) on the football field.

They cheated. Plain and simple.

Cape Cod Steel Head
09-12-2007, 06:04 PM
Why is this in the Blast Furnace and not the NFL section? Its either the lead story or the second story on all the major Boston news networks.

fansince'76
09-12-2007, 06:09 PM
Why is this in the Blast Furnace and not the NFL section? Its either the lead story or the second story on all the major Boston news networks.

Because it began to get a bit heated.

Cape Cod Steel Head
09-12-2007, 06:20 PM
Because it began to get a bit heated.The truth sometimes hurts!

HometownGal
09-12-2007, 06:27 PM
I totally agree with everything you said. I also think that Mr. Kraft could possibly save a little face with the NFL Fan community if he were to step up and say that cheaters in the New England Patriot organization will not be tolerated and fire Mr. Belicheat! (of course we all know that will never happen!)

I totally agree. :thumbsup: You're right, though - firing Belicon would never happen.

tony hipchest
09-12-2007, 06:28 PM
IMO, the NFL should suspend Belichick for four games. That's how many games you suspend a player for taking steroids. A different form of cheating, but cheating nonetheless. Why not suspend the head coach for four games? Also, I feel they should have a number one and a number two or three draft pick taken away from them. I doubt both of those scenarios will occur, but that's what should be done in my opinion.

What I find funny out of all of this. Every year that the Patriots won a Super Bowl we always heard from the "experts" that the Patriots never had the greatest players, but that they were a very smart football team. Now I see why. IMO, this incident has completely changed my opinion of Belichick. While I never had anything against the guy (yeah, he's a dry stiff with the personality of a brick wall), I always respected the guy for what he did (or I thought he did) on the football field.

They cheated. Plain and simple.i agree with you on what should be done and what probably wont be done. heres why:

goodell said EVERYBODY would be held to the conduct policy, from owners on down.

rodney harrison was suspended 4 games for hgh which gave him a competitive advantage. wade willson was given 5 games for exactly the same thing even though id provided the team no advantage whatsoever. this suggests a higher standard being set for coaches.

the steelers were stripped of a 3rd rounder just for wearing pads in practice, an offseason infraction that is far less than gaining a competitive edge in game.

if the punishment is just draft picks, belichick could (though unlikely) quit or go work for another team and circumvent any punishment altogether. just losing picks isnt a deterrent, infact, it could be the complete opposite for a coach who knows he is retiring or likely to get fired. taking away picks punishes the franchise and the future, however belichicks infraction needs to be addressed in the here and now. and the patriots traded away 4 picks from the 07 draft. they dont even need them, especially when they are more comfortable addressing all their needs in free agency anyways.

the most disgusting thing about this is all the patriot apologists who try to erase it all by saying "why would they bother cheating against inferior teams" or it "never gave a competitive advantage".

:dang: if it didnt give an advantage, then why would they bother doing it? why would it be against the rules? of course it gave an advantage. the proof is in the pudding and all their wins are tainted.

belichick needs to be suspended atleast 4 games. the precedent is there. i guess if the leagues most recognizable player can be suspended, i doubt goodell will be on a mission to protect the leagues most accomplished coach.

Atlanta Dan
09-12-2007, 07:23 PM
Bill Simmons and another Pats fan spin the unpleasantness in the linked column, complete with some shots at the 70s Steelers being on the juice (someone needs to tell Bill's buddy that Jim Haslett did not play for the 70s Steelers). A big part of the fun is watching the Pats fans meticulously construct rationalizations that on the one hand it is not that big a deal and that on the other hand every other great team has done something just as bad.

This pretty much sums up Simmons attitude:

Right now, I'm just bummed that the rest of the country has a valid reason to hate the Patriots other than 'I'm tired of watching them win.' "

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070912

Atlanta Dan
09-12-2007, 07:28 PM
i agree with you on what should be done and what probably wont be done. heres why:

goodell said EVERYBODY would be held to the conduct policy, from owners on down.

rodney harrison was suspended 4 games for hgh which gave him a competitive advantage. wade willson was given 5 games for exactly the same thing even though id provided the team no advantage whatsoever. this suggests a higher standard being set for coaches.

the steelers were stripped of a 3rd rounder just for wearing pads in practice, an offseason infraction that is far less than gaining a competitive edge in game.

if the punishment is just draft picks, belichick could (though unlikely) quit or go work for another team and circumvent any punishment altogether. just losing picks isnt a deterrent, infact, it could be the complete opposite for a coach who knows he is retiring or likely to get fired. taking away picks punishes the franchise and the future, however belichicks infraction needs to be addressed in the here and now. and the patriots traded away 4 picks from the 07 draft. they dont even need them, especially when they are more comfortable addressing all their needs in free agency anyways.

the most disgusting thing about this is all the patriot apologists who try to erase it all by saying "why would they bother cheating against inferior teams" or it "never gave a competitive advantage".

:dang: if it didnt give an advantage, then why would they bother doing it? why would it be against the rules? of course it gave an advantage. the proof is in the pudding and all their wins are tainted.

belichick needs to be suspended atleast 4 games. the precedent is there. i guess if the leagues most recognizable player can be suspended, i doubt goodell will be on a mission to protect the leagues most accomplished coach.

As you might imagine, Atlanta sports talk has a simple explanation for why Belichick will walk - race. On Two Live Stews, one caller argued that Odell Thurman has been suspended as a consequence of his heroic struggle with alcoholism and Pacman has been suspended when convicted of nothing while Belichick is a proven cheater but will walk. Yet another victory for The Man.:sofunny:

Goodell has a real PR problem here on a number of levels.

tony hipchest
09-12-2007, 07:59 PM
Bill Simmons and another Pats fan spin the unpleasantness in the linked column, complete with some shots at the 70s Steelers being on the juice (someone needs to tell Bill's buddy that Jim Haslett did not play for the 70s Steelers). A big part of the fun is watching the Pats fans meticulously construct rationalizations that on the one hand it is not that big a deal and that on the other hand every other great team has done something just as bad.

This pretty much sums up Simmons attitude:

Right now, I'm just bummed that the rest of the country has a valid reason to hate the Patriots other than 'I'm tired of watching them win.' "

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070912great link. lemme pick out some more apologist bs:

why in God's name did we have to cheat to beat the Jets??? Couldn't we have saved the chicanery for the Chargers game when we actually needed it?


they do it against every opponent every weak. its not like they got caught the 1st time they tried it. that excuse doesnt even work in jr high.

Everything about the Patriots seems to make people too emotional, so I wish fans would take a step back and ask 'How would I feel about this if the Jacksonville Jaguars had been caught doing it?'
cheating should be punished equally for every team. if p. manning were caught killing dogs i think all fans would be equally outraged as they are with vick. (why are these pat apologists playing the "race" card so to speak?

The Patriots did something wrong, but the level of the response is just ludicrous because so many fans just hate the Patriots -- not because of anything the Patriots have done, but because of the constant praise they've received from the media over the past few years.


most people hate the pats because its always been pretty obvious that they cheat. having the proof in hand only exacerbates that.

Should they suspend Belichick? I can't remember a head coach ever being suspended for a game in the NFL

how bout an assistant coach named wade wilson. im sure they heard of the other person brought down in the r. harrison scandal. playing dumb isnt a great strategy to have people buy into this "poor pats" attitude that is beeing sold.

So for a team like the Patriots to remain competitive for more than five years ... it's practically impossible. I never thought they got enough credit for that. They didn't win for the past six-plus years because they cheated; they won because they out-thought and out-drafted everyone else

practically impossible for sure. 6th round linemen and qb's year after year, sure look like great draftpicks when they can seemingly pick up EVERY blitz.

In the long run, this is going to be relatively forgotten. It will be a footnote to the dynasty, a funny story like when some guy from the 1967 Packers talks about how they gouged each other's genitalia at the bottom of the fumble pile.


:jerkit: this article really became tough to read. not as bad as the easterbrook (?) guy feeling sorry for mike vick, but pretty close.

It doesn't help, for example, when SI runs a cover that says 'Tom Brady is a God,' which is slated for this week.

:toofunny: good luck with that, pats. :poop:

Atlanta Dan
09-12-2007, 08:30 PM
T.H.. - the SI cover actually says "Tom Brady As God"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/2007/0917.html

Who could imagine the SI cover jinx was so powerful it could strike before the cover even was published:toofunny:

Hamer
09-12-2007, 08:33 PM
check out the new patriots logo...

Steel_Bus_24
09-12-2007, 08:48 PM
check out the new patriots logo...

ha pretty good

Hamer
09-12-2007, 08:50 PM
Seriously, you know its bad when its not just the fans and the "patriot haters" are the ones who are calling the pats full blown cheaters.
Its coaches and players in the NFL! We've already seen Coach Tomlin's comments on "where there's smoke there's fire" and LT's hilarious comments.
But we're also talking Brett Favre, Hines Ward, etc etc...
it's all coming out- they have been doing this for years, taking credit for being "geniuses" and "knowing" what other teams were going to do.

"A league source said the Denver Broncos, Packers, Jets and Buffalo Bills believe the Patriots have videotaped their signals before. The source also said other teams have phoned NFL Security with their suspicions since the story first broke."

CBS Sports article: http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10348383

We always suspected- now we know.

Atlanta Dan
09-12-2007, 08:50 PM
The Jax Jags also are letting their obvious jealousy show through

Jags on accusation of Pats ? ?they?re busted?

The news didn?t surprise the Jaguars, who were skeptical of a situation that happened at New England two years ago in the playoffs.

?Our coach-to-quarterback system mysteriously malfunctioned the entire first half,? said Del Rio, whose team was assessed two delay-of-game penalties in the first 20 minutes and eventually lost 28-3.

Although no one blamed the Patriots for Jacksonville?s headset problems, defensive end Paul Spicer said allegations involving the three-time Super Bowl champions were nothing new.

?This ain?t news,? Spicer said. ?I?ve heard it in the past. They finally got caught. ... The Patriots got caught. They?re busted.?....

?Do like the NCAA and kick them out of the playoffs or something,? Spicer said. ?Put them on probation; they can?t go to no playoff games. Roger Goodell has definitely enforced some new rules. He?s been hard on players. Now let?s see how hard he?s going to be with a team.?:sofunny:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20748507/

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-12-2007, 08:52 PM
Great article -

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20715148/

Belichick has track record of classlessness
By Bob Cook

When you hear the New England Patriots are accused of sending a spy to videotape an opponent?s signals, do you think, ?There is no WAY that would EVER be tolerated on a team coached by Bill Belichick??

Thought not.

As his team gets further removed from its Super Bowl run, Belichick?s career as a Hall of Fame coach is quickly being overtaken by his career as a Hall of Fame jackass. Even though Belichick is far from being found culpable in the case of the Patriots employee wielding a video camera where none should be, the coach?s long history of poor sportsmanship means it hardly stretches the imagination to see him being Dick Cheney in the NFL?s version of warrantless wiretapping.
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If this is all just a big misunderstanding, all apologies to Belichick. But the NFL determined Tuesday that the Patriots did break the rules. So NFL commissioner Roger Goodell needs to go all Pacman Jones on Belichick, who is a repeat offender when it comes to the crime of sore winning and sore losing. Forget losing a draft pick or two if the Patriots are found to have violated the league rule against videotaping another team?s signals. Belichick, if he is at any way responsible, should be suspended for a bad attitude that has played out in ways that makes Terrell Owens queasy.

Not only is it no surprise that the coach who Machiavelli thinks is a little too committed to winning at all costs would (allegedly) send a spy to steal signals during Sunday?s 38-14 victory over the New York Jets, but it?s also no surprise that, as a league source told ESPN, this is not the first time such an accusation has been made. According to that account, the Green Bay Packers last year kicked out the same Patriots representative being investigated by the league for the Jets incident.

Sign-stealing has long been a sports pastime, and often it?s seen as crafty gamesmanship to slyly figure out the opponents? signals. But only the sore-winning, sore-losing Belichick would be as ham-handed as to send a guy with a video recorder to stand on the sideline and videotape the opposing coaches.

It shows the same brand of subtlety he displayed, say, brushing past someone trying to shake his hand after a loss.

Belichick has been on a particular roll since the last game of the regular season: shoving a photographer during a season-ending win over the Jets; having LaDainian Tomlinson question whether the Patriots who danced at midfield after a playoff win at San Diego took their cues on classlessness from their coach; and blowing off Peyton Manning after the Colts beat the Patriots in the AFC Championship game, followed by Belichick giving CBS? Solomon Wilcots a short, prickly interview that inspired network analyst Boomer Esiason to call the coach ?unprofessional.?

Then on a Sept. 2 radio show, Vikings coach Brad Childress revealed he had a tense conversation with Belichick when Childress wanted to claim a player Belichick had put on waivers in hopes of bringing him back to the practice squad. Childress said Belichick told him he wouldn?t claim a Vikings player if Childress backed off. When he didn?t, Childress said, Belichick claimed a Vikings player. ?He was trying to leverage, but you always find out who is honest and straightforward,? Childress told WCCO-AM.

Of course, Belichick has a long history of manipulation. Look at how he works the weekly injury list so no one knows exactly who is hurt and how much, paranoia that runs so deep, Belichick ordered Steelers trainer John Norwig off the field in 2005 when he came to assist injured Patriots offensive lineman Matt Light. Actually, what Belichick was reported to have said was, ?Get away from my [R-rated adjective] player!?

If it weren?t for the reports that the Patriots had tried this before, it would seem natural Belichick would reserve his most dastardly schemes for the Jets, given the bad blood that started in early 2000 when he quit as the team?s head coach the day he was promoted to fill Bill Parcells? absence, continued as he and the Jets filed grievances over his attempt to go to the Patriots, and continued further as defensive coordinator Eric Mangini took the head coaching job last year, reportedly over Belichick?s objections (so much so Belichick, like an angry father of a teenage daughter dating a newly released prisoner, was purported to have changed the locks during Mangini?s courting).

Who can forget such heart-warming images of tough but fair competition as Belichick brushes off Mangini?s handshake in their first game against each other, and Mangini grabbing Belichick?s right arm like Henry VIII locked onto a turkey leg to guarantee a handshake after their second meeting?
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Only Belichick?s lack of throwing furniture and his omnipresent monotone keeps his reputation from completely spilling over into Bob Knight territory. He?s a jerk, but not one you hear screaming a lot. Belichick might not completely disdain the comparison to Knight, a good friend of Belichick?s former boss, Parcells. Knight was never one to rush to apologize for his actions, and Belichick doesn?t openly, Nixon-style, declare ?I am not a jerk,? instead issuing vague responses that sound like they were written by Alan Greenspan.

But one other thing about Knight. For all of his flaws, he was all about fair play. Belichick is about gaming the system as much as you can.

So the question becomes, with Belichick?s skill, and his players? talent, why stoop to this?

The answer: because Belichick?s attitude crosses the line from wanting to do everything possible to win to demanding to do anything possible to win. Belichick?s boorish behavior means the videotape accusation, if it sticks, isn?t a sign of some crafty mind engaging in a little gamesmanship. It?s a sign of an obsessed mind crossing the line from being a poor sport to being poor for his sport.

HometownGal
09-12-2007, 08:58 PM
Pete Rose was tossed out of MLB on his hiney and is being held out of the HOF because of betting on the Reds while he was the manager. Belicheater should face a similar fate.

Atlanta Dan
09-12-2007, 08:59 PM
Howard Bryant of ESPN is another irrational hater of achievement:

What needs to happen, if indeed it is proved the Patriots incongruously cheated their way to an opening day victory against an inferior opponent? The Patriots should be put at some disadvantage during the regular season. Goodell should suspend Belichick two games -- ban him from the sidelines, the locker room and coaches' meetings -- and should not allow him to work on game plans, participate in practice or communicate with his team for two weeks.....

Goodell now must sanction perhaps the league's most visible team, with a powerful owner. Robert Kraft may not be a household name to those outside of the 617 area code, but along with Jerry Jones in Dallas, Daniel Snyder in Washington and Jeffrey Lurie in Philadelphia, Kraft, with his signature zeal, is part of the league's emerging big-money revenue clique. Goodell must, in effect, show he is willing to treat Belichick's white-collar, high-tech transgression in a similar manner as Frostee Rucker's violent crime. Ostensibly both can affect how the paying customer views the legitimacy of the sport.....

Violence is clearly more visceral, and certainly in the outside society violent behavior cannot be equated to breaking the rules of a game. Inside the sport is another matter, where punishment is based on negatively affecting the health and welfare of the sport. Belichick and the Patriots apparently violated a league rule in place to ensure fair contest, the root of the sport.

If Goodell does not act decisively, he will only confirm a basic truth about the commissioner-player relationship in all professional sports -- that he works for management. Of course, it has always been this way, the fiction is that the commissioner is anything but the collective employee of 32 owners. That will change only when the players have a say in who receives the jobs Messrs. Goodell, Selig, Bettman and Stern now hold.

Until then, Goodell must act. Failure to do so will prove him to be more union antagonist than impartial arbiter, the protector of football interests on all sides. If he lets Belichick off easily, Goodell will be less Law and Order Commissioner and more Company Man.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=3016267

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-12-2007, 09:00 PM
T.H.. - the SI cover actually says "Tom Brady As God"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/2007/0917.html

Who could imagine the SI cover jinx was so powerful it could strike before the cover even was published:toofunny:


Hmmm :huh: I wonder how Randy Moss got all those yards on Sunday :nono:
Appropriate headlines don't you think. "Randy Moss explodes and the Patriots *send a shiver through the NFL.

Who would have know it would be that type of shiver.

*super bowl = sham

MasterOfPuppets
09-12-2007, 09:26 PM
:toofunny: i would like to take this time to thank everyone, for posting these FANTASTIC articles about the CHEATERS....:thumbsup:

tony hipchest
09-12-2007, 09:37 PM
T.H.. - the SI cover actually says "Tom Brady As God"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/2007/0917.html

Who could imagine the SI cover jinx was so powerful it could strike before the cover even was published:toofunny:

:jawdrop:- ouch!

no wonder people are glad to see this sham take it in the chin.

revefsreleets
09-12-2007, 10:18 PM
I'm not sure suspended the coach will help much. I think it sends a stronger message to make them forfeit the game.

j-dawg
09-12-2007, 10:20 PM
shessh... goodell should end their season, awarding all their opponents a win.

if so, it might possibly be the only win the Browns will see this season. :shake02:

MasterOfPuppets
09-12-2007, 10:23 PM
[QUOTE=revefsreleets;293008]I'm not sure suspended the coach will help much. I think it sends a stronger message to make them forfeit the game.[/QUOTE

yup....whose to say the jets ,wouldn't have won without the CHEATING....:coffee:

revefsreleets
09-12-2007, 10:26 PM
One win/loss is all that's needed. That sends a strong and decisive message to the rest of the NFL, and ends this thing quickly.

MasterOfPuppets
09-12-2007, 10:26 PM
shessh... goodell should end their season, awarding all their opponents a win.

if so, it might possibly be the only win the Browns will see this season. :shake02::toofunny:......:thumbsup:

Atlanta Dan
09-12-2007, 10:29 PM
shessh... goodell should end their season, awarding all their opponents a win.

if so, it might possibly be the only win the Browns will see this season. :shake02:

If Belichick gets a one game suspension and it is for the Browns game the fix is in - that would be no different than when Big State U "disciplines" the players who have had off season issues by sitting them for the season opener against Pollyanna State Teachers College

(Two weeks ago I could have said it would be like Michigan suspending players for the Appalachian State game but I guess that analogy would no longer be a good one):smile:

MasterOfPuppets
09-12-2007, 11:11 PM
i knew it !!!



September 12th, 2007
Hines Ward gets in on the fun
Posted by John Tomase at 8:23 pm

Steelers wide receiver Hines Ward told the Pittsburgh media today that he believes the Patriots were cheating during their upset in the 2002 AFC Championship Game, and maybe again in the 2004 playoffs. The Patriots won first game 24-17 and Ward said the Patriots knew what was coming.

?Oh, they knew,? he said. ?They were calling our stuff out. They knew, especially that first championship game here at Heinz Field. They knew a lot of our calls. There?s no question some of their players were calling out some of our stuff.

?You would hope that, during their run, when they were winning all their Super Bowls, all that stuff wasn?t going on,'? Ward said. ?You look back in the past, and we played them in the championship games, and you kind of wonder. It seemed like they were a step ahead of us at all times, but those games are behind us. There?s nothing we can do about it. You just look forward and see what the commissioner will do.?

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/patriots/

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-13-2007, 12:03 AM
Out on nfl.com they have a video with a bunch of coaches and player take on the New England Cheaters oh gee I mean Patriots*

Gotta love Joey Porter he puts in his two cents
And Tony Duny he's hasn't heard it from the league yet but when he does he's going to have some "really good comments"

Jeff fisher isn't happy

http://www.nfl.com/videos

click on spying in the nfl.

*super bowl = sham

83-Steelers-43
09-13-2007, 12:07 AM
Stiff penalty for Belichick is way to go
Thursday, September 13, 2007
By Gene Collier, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

With the amount of exposure the NFL routinely engenders and with its proclivity for making the simplest of matters into high video drama -- the release of the schedule is now its own TV show don't forget -- you would only hope that the penalty the league hands down for New England's videogate antics is delivered by a referee on a microphone.

"We have multiple fouls on the Patriots, unsportsmanlike conduct, illegal procedure, illegal formation -- too many videographers on the sideline, meaning one -- and the penalty is 15 weeks of contempt-filled publicity and loss of draft choices in the first through fourth rounds of the 2008 draft. The Patriots are challenging the ruling on the field."

It's gotta be pretty stiff, doesn't it?

They're not going to come down with $55 and a fifth-round pick are they?

Players are routinely dismissed for a fourth of the season for stacking steroids carelessly enough to fail the drug tests, for trying to gain an unfair advantage through performance enhancement. With all the punishment he has dealt to chronically immature players in his first year in office, commissioner Roger Goodell can't give Bill Belichick, the game's most-celebrated strategist and bejeweled genius a simple whack on the "record" button for a calculated violation of technological decorum.

But wait, here's the decision.

"Upon further review, there is indisputable visual evidence that New England videotaped the signals being given by New York's defensive coaches. The penalty stands, and New England will be charged with a timeout."

The penalty, of course, is expected later in the week, but its sting would be considerable were Goodell to seek counsel in the Steelers' locker room.

"Deshea [Townsend] said he felt like they cheated during the AFC championship game, so we should get Super Bowl rings," Ben Roethlisberger reported yesterday. "You have to punish them."

Asked if it mattered that much if the Patriots could match the opponents' signals to defensive tendencies, the quarterback didn't hesitate.

"It matters," he said emphatically. "You can call certain plays if you know where guys are going to be because defenses are so good at disguising what they're going to do. If you already know what is coming, you can know whether to call a pass or run inside or outside."

Though the penalty and the fallout will be all about New England's liberal interpretation of the rules, no one ought to be terribly gleeful over Belichick's video bust. Every team in the NFL has one or more actors doing one or more things that they shouldn't be doing to gain the ever-narrowing competitive edge.

"The league has to look upon itself and see who else is doing it," said Steelers tackle Willie Colon. "They might have just cracked the seal on this. It's disappointing to see such a great organization tainted by this."

No one has ever accused Belichick of clawing toward the moral high ground. His pass defenders have traditionally stretched the rules to the snapping point, and the news that he might attempt to gain a technological advantage was met mostly with knowing glances.

"It's not genius," quarterback-turned-analyst Steve Young once said of New England's defense. "You know what's going to happen. The strong safety is going to line up over the tight end and he's going to maul that guy the second the ball is snapped. Mug him, tackle him, whatever. And the other [defenders] are going to grab their guys just enough to disrupt your timing. We struggled against it when Belichick was in Cleveland."

When New England upset St. Louis in Super Bowl XXXVI, Rams superstar Marshall Fault complained bitterly about the Patriots' techniques.

"Every time I released [out of the backfield]." Faulk said. "I got held, I got pushed, I got grabbed."

Whatever the judiciary outcome of all this, it's going to seem a lot less like genius from this point forward that, for example, New England lost to Buffalo, 31-0, in the opener in 2003, then beat Buffalo, 31-0, later that season (yeah, let's go to the video!), that New England scored only 16 points against the Jets in their first meeting of 2005, then 31 the second time, and more pointedly in one local locker room, that New England lost to the Steelers, 34-20, in October 2004, then beat 'em, 41-27, in the conference title game three months later.

"When we played them in the championship game, it seemed like they were a step ahead of us all the time," Hines Ward said yesterday. "You never know how long they've been doing this stuff. I heard they close part of their practices off to the media and that kind of thing. You hate to see it come to putting an asterisk by their championships, but I haven't heard of any other team doing something like this. I wouldn't put it past them.

"It is a crime and hopefully, [the penalty] will be stiff enough that no one else will try it."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07256/817097-150.stm

fansince'76
09-13-2007, 12:29 AM
The only problem I have with our players piping up about it is it sounds more like sour grapes than anything at this juncture. Remember Holmgren bellyaching about the SB officiating? This is on par with that, I'm afraid. The NFL isn't going to go back and strip titles or replay games, so the players need to zip it.

Black@Gold Forever32
09-13-2007, 12:37 AM
The only problem I have with our players piping up about it is it sounds more like sour grapes than anything at this juncture. Remember Holmgren bellyaching about the SB officiating? This is on par with that, I'm afraid. The NFL isn't going to go back and strip titles or replay games, so the players need to zip it.

I agree on you about the sour grapes....We all can play the what if game but we don't know for sure how much of an advantage the Pats cheating played in their success....But the evidence is out that they have been doing this for the past two years so Goodell needs to send a message to prevent this from happening down the road....

fansince'76
09-13-2007, 12:40 AM
I agree on you about the sour grapes....We all can play the what if game but we don't know for sure how much of an advantage the Pats cheating played in their success....But the evidence is out that they have been doing this for the past two years so Goodell needs to send a message to prevent this from happening down the road....

And kick the shit out of them in their own backyard on Dec. 9.

paw-n-maul-u
09-13-2007, 12:41 AM
I think the players should speak up about this. I'm so sick of hearing about cheating in sports these days, from Donaghy (sp?) to Barry Bonds, the Tour de France thing, palmero ... jesus there are so many i could go on forever. I would love to see the NFL take away the pats "W" vs. Jets (regardless if they had the talent to beat them alone or not ... its the principle) ... and dock them one of their first round picks next year.

Bill should have to sit out a game or so as well.

I think everyone should speak up about it, whatever it takes to keep it honest.

I'm so glad it's the patriots. Shitheads. Regardless of what anyone thinks, for the rest of history this little scam will hang over their dynasty in the early 2000's;

Awesome, because I hate tom brady, no wonder he always can lead miraculous 4th quarter drives and make it look so easy. By the two minute warning, brady and co. have the D's figured out completely.

Baahahahha yessss. A lot of people were calling the pats to self destruct maybe this year. could it come from a source other than randy moss?

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 12:45 AM
Out on nfl.com they have a video with a bunch of coaches and player take on the New England Cheaters oh gee I mean Patriots*

Gotta love Joey Porter he puts in his two cents
And Tony Duny he's hasn't heard it from the league yet but when he does he's going to have some "really good comments"

Jeff fisher isn't happy

http://www.nfl.com/videos

click on spying in the nfl.

*super bowl = sham

I would love to hear what Dungy (the polar opposite of Belichick) has to say.

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 12:52 AM
The only problem I have with our players piping up about it is it sounds more like sour grapes than anything at this juncture. Remember Holmgren bellyaching about the SB officiating? This is on par with that, I'm afraid. The NFL isn't going to go back and strip titles or replay games, so the players need to zip it.

Agreed - I do not think spying resulted in special teams giving up 2 touchdowns in the 2001 AFC Championship Game or Ben throwing the INT for a TD return that broke the Steelers back in the second championship loss to the Pats.

Hines should have zipped it but good luck with him not talking to the media about anything.

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 12:58 AM
The only problem I have with our players piping up about it is it sounds more like sour grapes than anything at this juncture. Remember Holmgren bellyaching about the SB officiating? This is on par with that, I'm afraid. The NFL isn't going to go back and strip titles or replay games, so the players need to zip it.
our special teams coach lost his job in 2002, due to this possible cheating. the players are justifyably feeling robbed.

if someone broke into my house and stole what was most important to me, i wouldnt call wishing that i was home to bash them over the head with a baseball bat "sour grapes".

i think the steelers reaction to this is natural.

sidenote: sean salsbury is working overtime to become the biggest patriots apologist out there.

fansince'76
09-13-2007, 01:00 AM
if someone broke into my house and stole what was most important to me, i wouldnt call wishing that i was home to bash them over the head with a baseball bat "sour grapes".

So they return the favor on December 9. That's all they can do at this point. Maybe they won't be able to pick up every blitz we throw at them this time around. In fact, I highly doubt it.

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-13-2007, 01:02 AM
I would love to hear what Dungy (the polar opposite of Belichick) has to say.

I am looking so forward to Dungy's comments about Bellacheat

Oh boy Oh boy I can't wait. :popcorn::popcorn:

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 01:26 AM
So they return the favor on December 9. That's all they can do at this point. Maybe they won't be able to pick up every blitz we throw at them this time around. In fact, I highly doubt it.

i agree, as does hines ward:

but those games are behind us. There?s nothing we can do about it.
im sure tomlin finds it a bit "odd" how the patriots were able to "guess correctly" on every play against the vikings last year. i dont think they will be picking up evey blitz on dec. 9.

Preacher
09-13-2007, 03:57 AM
i knew it !!!



September 12th, 2007
Hines Ward gets in on the fun
Posted by John Tomase at 8:23 pm

Steelers wide receiver Hines Ward told the Pittsburgh media today that he believes the Patriots were cheating during their upset in the 2002 AFC Championship Game, and maybe again in the 2004 playoffs. The Patriots won first game 24-17 and Ward said the Patriots knew what was coming.

?Oh, they knew,? he said. ?They were calling our stuff out. They knew, especially that first championship game here at Heinz Field. They knew a lot of our calls. There?s no question some of their players were calling out some of our stuff.

?You would hope that, during their run, when they were winning all their Super Bowls, all that stuff wasn?t going on,'? Ward said. ?You look back in the past, and we played them in the championship games, and you kind of wonder. It seemed like they were a step ahead of us at all times, but those games are behind us. There?s nothing we can do about it. You just look forward and see what the commissioner will do.?

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/patriots/


You know...

There will be a BIG asterisk next to the Pats SB's now.

But Ward is right. Nothing can be done about the past. However, NOW?? I REALLY think that the Pats should be forced to forfeit the game. Furthermore, they should lose their first and second round draft picks this year, and their first round next year. If it happens again, Belicheck should be banned from coaching, and the team forfeit any playoffs that year. Also, their share of TV revenue be gone for the year.

Yeah.. it is a bit severe... but so is cheating on a grand scale.

sixstringlass
09-13-2007, 07:45 AM
The more that this story has developed, the more something kept niggling at my mind. I finally found it. It's from a wikipedia article regarding the 1979-1980 playoffs; specifically, the divisional playoff game between the Houston Oilers and the Sand Diego Chargers. Here's the relevant bit:

After the game, it was revealed that the Oiler coaching staff was able to figure out the Chargers' coaches' signs as they signaled the play call from the sideline; this was one reason their defensive backs seemed to always be in the right place at the right time. "We pretty much knew ahead of time when they were going to pass" said Oilers defensive coordinator Ed Biles.

I can't post links yet, but here's the whole article:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_playoffs2C_197980#AFC:_Houston_Oilers_17.2C_Sa n_Diego_Chargers_14

My Dad told me about this game several times over the years as he recounted various Steeler playoff opponents. In regards to this event, my Dad said that someone told Biles "good luck" about doing the same thing to Pittsburgh 'cause Bradshaw called his own plays.

I don't know how this is significant, but I figured I'd share.



...and pad my post count.....

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 08:44 AM
[QUOTE=tony hipchest;293099]our special teams coach lost his job in 2002, due to this possible cheating. the players are justifyably feeling robbed.
QUOTE]

???

How did the Pats cheating result in New England busting a punt straight down the middle of the field in the first half of the 2001 AFC Championship (the week after the Ravens returned a punt for a TD in the previous playoff game) and blocking a field goal for a TD return?

IMO the special teams coach lost his job because special teams were horrible in 2001, not because of any improper actions by the Pats.

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 10:10 AM
[QUOTE=tony hipchest;293099]our special teams coach lost his job in 2002, due to this possible cheating. the players are justifyably feeling robbed.
QUOTE]

???

How did the Pats cheating result in New England busting a punt straight down the middle of the field in the first half of the 2001 AFC Championship (the week after the Ravens returned a punt for a TD in the previous playoff game) and blocking a field goal for a TD return?

IMO the special teams coach lost his job because special teams were horrible in 2001, not because of any improper actions by the Pats.i realize that. the loss (and the way it happened) directly led to him getting fired. but what if some cheating helped indirectly lead to the loss? if the steelers win anyways, and if the special teams have a great performance in the superbowl does he still lose his job?

thats the angle i was getting at. its kinda like tim lewis. he didnt last much longer after the patriots showed the blueprint to beating the steelers defense the following year. did they devise that blueprint with the aide of stolen signals?

i know its a stretch, its just the best examples i quickly came up with how this cheating could possibly lead to others losing their jobs. i mean it would be a shame if the colts didnt make a comeback against the pats in last years playoffs and dungy decided to hang em up. especially if his defensive signals being stolen were an indirect cause.

i agree that stealing signals is not equivalent of having the other teams playbook and is probably just a minimal advantage over the best teams, however if you start adding up all the small advantages the patriots have been accused of getting (some illegal) it becomes pretty significant.

i guess what im getting at is its one thing to steal a "W" in the win column, but to humiliate ones coaching peers with these tactics considering they have short enough career spans as it is is pretty despicable, and a harsh penalty should be dealt. i hope goodell feels the same way.

NESteelerfan
09-13-2007, 10:26 AM
The Cheaters are already preparing for that game.When this whole thing broke the Pats signed linebacker Chad Brown yet again. 2 years ago the Pats signed C.Brown The following year we signed him again,now this year the Pats re signed him...I know Coach Tomlin is new but we have the same D, Please for the love of god,Coach Lebeau change the hand signals!!!

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 10:29 AM
[QUOTE=tony hipchest;293188} its kinda like tim lewis. he didnt last much longer after the patriots showed the blueprint to beating the steelers defense the following year. did they devise that blueprint with the aide of stolen signals?

.[/QUOTE]

IMO the Pats figured out their game plan to start the 2002 season after watching video of the immortal Jon Kitna lighting up the Steelers for 400+ yards by throwing on every down in a late 2001 regular season game against the Bengals, checking to make sure Chad Scott, Dewayne Washington & Lee Flowers were still on the field that Monday night, and firing away.:smile: The Raiders did the same thing the following Sunday night in Pittsburgh (and I doubt adjusted their entire game plan in 5 days after seeing the Monday night game), so it seemed the word was out that the way to beat that Steelers D was to ignore the run and just torch those corners.

What Belichick has done is reprehensible but players on the losing side of playoff games blaming him for everything but global warming seems a bit of an overreaction.

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 10:40 AM
IMO the Pats figured out their game plan to start the 2002 season after watching video of the immortal Jon Kitna lighting up the Steelers for 400+ yards by throwing on every down in a late 2001 regular season game against the Bengals,

What Belichick has done is reprehensible but players on the losing side of playoff games blaming him for everything but global warming seems a bit of an overreaction.yeah, that game sucked almost as bad as the bengals did that year. typical cowher playing not to lose while the opponent was playing to win. that late game shouldve given us a steelers best 14-2 record and i think the best record in the league that year (cant remember if rams were 13-3 or 14-2).

the players are gonna pile on, as are the fans. and deservedly so imo. while hes not responsible for global warming, i think its fair to say hes responsible for 188 new species being added to the "endangered" list. :yeehaw:

BozMan
09-13-2007, 01:16 PM
Remember those credit card commercials a few seasons ago featuring Tom Brady and his offensive line? They were talking about the "5 layers of protection" and how each lineman represented one of those layers.. blah blah blah.

Well, now we know why Brady seemingly always had all day back there to throw. They friggin' knew what defense the other team would be using. So much for the Patriots and their vaunted 5 layers of protection. More like 5 layers of CHEATING.

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 01:28 PM
so much for goobers like sean salsbury's and all the patfan apologist's theories that these were isolated incidents. and for those who still dont get why they would cheat against poor teams, ive said it all along. they cheated against ALL teams:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/09/13/cheating/index.html?eref=T1

Last year the Lions played the Patriots in Foxboro. At one point their coach, Rod Marinelli, phoned up to the press box, "There's a camera pointed right at our defensive coach making his calls. Is that allowed?" A Lions' employee called the NFL booth. No, it certainly was not. So the videotaper was stopped. Then after a while he began again. The same process was repeated and he was asked to stop again. Now that's dedication.

"You don't really know for sure," Marinelli said. "I mean you don't know whether he might be doing something for NFL Films or a coaches' show or whatever."

"At one point we had a good drive going against the Patriots," said one Lion who doesn't want his name involved in this mess, but was willing to talk about it. "Mike Martz really had 'em going. They were getting fouled up, lining up wrong, we were moving the ball. Then boom, the headset from the sidelines to the coaches' booth goes out.

"Next possession we were moving the ball again and the same thing happened. You know it only takes two or three plays to mess up a drive."

Matt Millen, the Lions' GM, was talking to Bengals' coach Marvin Lewis at the league meetings. He started telling him the story.

"Yeah, I know," Lewis said. "Headset went out. It happened to me in Foxboro, too."

Marinelli was the defensive line coach in Tampa Bay when the Bucs beat the Patriots in the 2000 regular season opener and did a good job controlling New England's offense. After the game the Patriots' offensive coach, Charlie Weis, was overheard congratulating the Bucs' defensive coordinator, Monte Kiffin.

"We knew all your calls, and you still stopped us," Weis said. "I can't believe it."

He couldn't believe it because the Patriots had videotaped all of the defensive signals in their last preseason game, which was against the Bucs.

The stories are all coming out now, but why hadn't all this been reported to the league office before this?

"At the time, you never know for sure," Millen said. "And if you don't know it at the time, then you don't feel right reporting it later."




very good (but long) article with lots of insider stuff. and of course, heres the best quote:

Everyone is secretly enjoying seeing the mighty Patriots being brought to earth.

"Irony, that's what my father loved best," said Art Rooney Jr., the Steelers' former player personnel director. "This would have been perfect for him."



"Coaches get paranoid," Rooney said. "Chuck Noll always used to worry that the other team had spies in the crowd at our training camp. So he took the numbers off all the rookies. I'd say to him, 'Coach, I'm not going to know who they are.' He'd say, 'Nah, we know all those guys.'

"I swear, there were times when I think we kept the wrong player."

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 01:42 PM
Hmmm all those losers out there latching on to a convenient excuse for their own failings.

Really, the Lions?

Mike Martz really that the offense rolling did he? :toofunny:

Someone stated earlier that they would love to hear what Dungy had to say on this, I doubt we'll ever know - because unlike this group of underachieving dicks, he doesn't have to big himself up in the media (sorta the anti-Hines Ward, if you will).

I Speaking of Hines, I wonder if we'll get to see the Steelers hardman cry again when the Patriots expose his team week 14?

fansince'76
09-13-2007, 01:45 PM
Hmmm all those losers out there latching on to a convenient excuse for their own failings.

Really, the Lions?

Mike Martz really that the offense rolling did he? :toofunny:

Someone stated earlier that they would love to hear what Dungy had to say on this, I doubt we'll ever know - because unlike this group of underachieving dicks, he doesn't have to big himself up in the media (sorta the anti-Hines Ward, if you will).

I Speaking of Hines, I wonder if we'll get to see the Steelers hardman cry again when the Patriots expose his team week 14?

Yep, it's all jealousy. Did you take your talking points from Kraft? Your team cheated, and they finally got caught. Deal with it. :coffee:

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 01:45 PM
And there's more, this time by embittered and clearly jealous Pats hater Dave Anderson in today's New York Times:

Model Franchise Sprouts an Unsightly Blemish

The biography of the Patriots? owner, Robert K. Kraft, in the team?s 2006 media guide, brags that the three-time Super Bowl champions ?are often referred to as a model franchise.? But no longer.

It now appears to be a model fraud, a model cheat....

Not that spying is new to pro football. But the Patriots? method was not only too high-tech, it had been discussed and denounced as blatant cheating....

Until now, all that spying was mostly mischief that usually was more smoke than fire. But what Belichick and the Patriots did (and got caught at) was a bonfire not normally associated with a model franchise.
http://select.nytimes.com/2007/09/13/sports/football/13anderson.html?ref=sports

Black@Gold Forever32
09-13-2007, 01:50 PM
Yep, it's all jealousy. Did you take your talking points from Kraft? Your team cheated, and they finally got caught. Deal with it. :coffee:

They can't deal with it.....The Pats winning 3 Super Bowl titles this decade created such an arrogance for their organization and their fan base....They really think they're above the law or the NFL for that matter....

Really how any of their fans can defend this is beyond me? The evidence is there and there is noway around it....lol

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 01:52 PM
And there's more, this time by embittered and clearly jealous Pats hater Dave Anderson in today's New York Times:

Model Franchise Sprouts an Unsightly Blemish

The biography of the Patriots? owner, Robert K. Kraft, in the team?s 2006 media guide, brags that the three-time Super Bowl champions ?are often referred to as a model franchise.? But no longer.

It now appears to be a model fraud, a model cheat....

Not that spying is new to pro football. But the Patriots? method was not only too high-tech, it had been discussed and denounced as blatant cheating....

Until now, all that spying was mostly mischief that usually was more smoke than fire. But what Belichick and the Patriots did (and got caught at) was a bonfire not normally associated with a model franchise.
http://select.nytimes.com/2007/09/13/sports/football/13anderson.html?ref=sports

New York, you say? :wink02:

Seriously, those guys have so much hate even their own guys get crucified.

Like I said before, you have a bunch of serial losers looking for an easy way out.

This sounds like one of the worst kept secrets in the NFL - Charlie Weis is even quoted as congratulating Monte Kiffen on dealing with his teams offense 'despite knowing all of their calls'.

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 01:52 PM
Hmmm all those losers out there latching on to a convenient excuse for their own failings.

Really, the Lions?

Mike Martz really that the offense rolling did he? :toofunny:

Someone stated earlier that they would love to hear what Dungy had to say on this, I doubt we'll ever know - because unlike this group of underachieving dicks, he doesn't have to big himself up in the media (sorta the anti-Hines Ward, if you will).

I Speaking of Hines, I wonder if we'll get to see the Steelers hardman cry again when the Patriots expose his team week 14?

"Underachieving dicks?" Of the numerus posts you have made which I have read, while I have disagreed with the conclusions of many I do not recall you sinking to vulgarity when mocking an opponent - you typically put the needle in with style.

Getting a little tense in the bunker?

fansince'76
09-13-2007, 01:52 PM
They can't deal with it.....The Pats winning 3 Super Bowl titles this decade created such an arrogance for their organization and their fan base....They really think they're above the law or the NFL for that matter....

Tell me about it, B@GF32 - it's been prominent display here today.

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 01:53 PM
They can't deal with it.....The Pats winning 3 Super Bowl titles this decade created such an arrogance for their organization and their fan base....They really think they're above the law or the NFL for that matter....

Really how any of their fans can defend this is beyond me? The evidence is there and there is noway around it....lol

I'd expect that from a fan of a team of renowned chokers.

Still, it was all Cowhers fault and he's gone now - in his place we have the mighty Mike Tomlin... :toofunny:

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 01:55 PM
New York, you say? :wink02:

Seriously, those guys have so much hate even their own guys get crucified.

Like I said before, you have a bunch of serial losers looking for an easy way out.

This sounds like one of the worst kept secrets in the NFL - Charlie Weis is even quoted as congratulating Monte Kiffen on dealing with his teams offense 'despite knowing all of their calls'.

Dave Anderson has a rep as a pretty low key guy who has been writing for The Times since the
1960s. Saying every sports columnist in New York is a cheap shot artist is about as credible as saying everyone on the Pats takes HGH and steals signals.

fansince'76
09-13-2007, 01:55 PM
I'd expect that from a fan of a team of renowned chokers.

Still, it was all Cowhers fault and he's gone now - in his place we have the mighty Mike Tomlin... :toofunny:

Better a choker than a cheater. :yawn: Who was it that pissed away a record 18-point lead in an AFCCG, again? :yawn:

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 01:55 PM
"Underachieving dicks?" Of the numerus posts you have made which I have read, while I have disagreed with the conclusions of many I do not recall you sinking to vulgarity when mocking an opponent - you typically put the needle in with style.

Getting a little tense in the bunker?

That wasn't aimed at anyone here.

I was talking about Mike Martz and all the other douche bags who have crawled out of the woodwork in the last few days with their own sob-story on how the big bad Patriots took their candy.

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 01:56 PM
Better a choker than a cheater. :yawn: Who was it that pissed away a record 18-point lead in an AFCCG, again? :yawn:

At least we didn't do it at home...twice.

Black@Gold Forever32
09-13-2007, 01:56 PM
Hmmm all those losers out there latching on to a convenient excuse for their own failings.

Really, the Lions?

Mike Martz really that the offense rolling did he? :toofunny:

Someone stated earlier that they would love to hear what Dungy had to say on this, I doubt we'll ever know - because unlike this group of underachieving dicks, he doesn't have to big himself up in the media (sorta the anti-Hines Ward, if you will).

I Speaking of Hines, I wonder if we'll get to see the Steelers hardman cry again when the Patriots expose his team week 14?

Ok the Pats only beat the Lions 28-21 last year.....So maybe the Pats cheating really played a factor in the Pats beating one of the worst franchises in the NFL by a TD....:toofunny: The game was in New England also...lol

I'm sorry your team got caught with its hand in the cookie jar and now deal with it...As for exposing the Steelers........We shall see but the Pats won't know what blitzes the Steelers are sending this time....lol

fansince'76
09-13-2007, 01:57 PM
At least we didn't do it at home...twice.

Lovely, the "I know you are, but what am I mentality" making an appearance. :yawn:

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 01:57 PM
Dave Anderson has a rep as a pretty low key guy who has been writing for The Times since the
1960s. Saying every sports columnist in New York is a cheap shot artist is about as credible as saying everyone on the Pats takes HGH and steals signals.

He's also a writer for a geographical area that has a hugely bitter rivalry with the Patriots.

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 01:59 PM
Better a choker than a cheater. :yawn: Who was it that pissed away a record 18-point lead in an AFCCG, again? :yawn:

Maybe they ran out of videotape in the second half?

fansince'76
09-13-2007, 02:00 PM
He's also a writer for a geographical area that has a hugely bitter rivalry with the Patriots.

Yep, it's just your poor little Patriots against the world. Please, give it up, dude. Or take it somewhere else where the Kraft/Belichick/Brady Kool-aid is drunk by the gallon. :yawn: :coffee:

Black@Gold Forever32
09-13-2007, 02:00 PM
I'd expect that from a fan of a team of renowned chokers.

Still, it was all Cowhers fault and he's gone now - in his place we have the mighty Mike Tomlin... :toofunny:

Thats all you come up with...Really lame and boring.....You're a tool bag just like Little Bill Belichick......

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 02:01 PM
Hmmm all those losers out there latching on to a convenient excuse for their own failings.

Really, the Lions?

Mike Martz really that the offense rolling did he? :toofunny:

Someone stated earlier that they would love to hear what Dungy had to say on this, I doubt we'll ever know - because unlike this group of underachieving dicks, he doesn't have to big himself up in the media (sorta the anti-Hines Ward, if you will).

I Speaking of Hines, I wonder if we'll get to see the Steelers hardman cry again when the Patriots expose his team week 14?:coffee:
your smack rings hollow. your cupboard is bone dry. youre simply a joke now.

the only smart thing belichick did was realize what a bunch of untalented losers he inherited, and resort to cheating to learn how (and be capable of) winning.

and before you get all trigger happy with the all those losers comments just remember you were all over the bengals nuts last year. you were the one thinking the jets were so tough, and the 2000 bucs had one of the top defenses in the league. it helps to read the article before you spout off.

really the only dicks are you and the team you root for. :jerkit:

Black@Gold Forever32
09-13-2007, 02:02 PM
Yep, it's just your poor little Patriots against the world. Please, give it up, dude. Or take it somewhere else where the Kraft/Belichick/Brady Kool-aid is drunk by the gallon. :yawn: :coffee:

Exactly......:thumbsup:

ShutDown24
09-13-2007, 02:02 PM
Best thing I have heard yet.... Bill Belicheat

Black@Gold Forever32
09-13-2007, 02:08 PM
At least we didn't do it at home...twice.

Again just lame....Can't you do better?

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 02:09 PM
I'd expect that from a fan of a team of renowned chokers.

Still, it was all Cowhers fault and he's gone now - in his place we have the mighty Mike Tomlin... :toofunny:
deflection at its finest. what a tailspin. you cant even read dans posts correctly. this is getting quite entertaining. all its missing is you posting pictures of hines crying. since you know have the credibility of a bunghole or brown fan, thats what you should do. then we'll all forget the patriots are tainted cheaters and stop talking about it. :wink02:

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 02:10 PM
Yep, it's just your poor little Patriots against the world. Please, give it up, dude. Or take it somewhere else where the Kraft/Belichick/Brady Kool-aid is drunk by the gallon. :yawn: :coffee:

That an order is it? LOL :toofunny:

I won't be giving up anytime soon and I really don't see what you can do about that.

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 02:10 PM
deflection at its finest. what a tailspin. you cant even read dans posts correctly. this is getting quite entertaining. all its missing is you posting pictures of hines crying. since you know have the credibility of a bunghole or brown fan, thats what you should do. then we'll all forget the patriots are tainted cheaters and stop talking about it. :wink02:

Yeah.

And your the Steelers are a bunch of whining cry-baby losers.

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 02:12 PM
That Pats hating rag The Boston Globe has a story on Thursday's Belichick press conference in which he again channels the spirit of Richard Nixon post-Watergate.

Patriots coach Bill Belichick just held his daily press conference at Gillette Stadium (10:50 a.m.). He opened with a statement on the Chargers, noting the Patriots would work on situations today (e.g. third down, red zone) and then was asked questions about the NFL's investigation regarding the team's videotaping procedures. The media crowd was lighter today than it was yesterday, down from about 15 television cameras to seven.

Some of the Q&A:

There is some lingering confusion from yesterday. The statement said the interpretation of the rules...
"I said that I don't have anything to add to that. When they give a decision, I'll make a comment."

In the statement, you addressed the staff and ownership. Do you have anything to say to your customers, the fans?
"I made that statement. That's all I have to say right now. I'll make a comment when it's over."

Have you got any indication?
"I haven't heard anything."

A lot of people say getting the signals from the opposing team is common practice. Is it your sense that it is?
"Again, right now we're focused on the Chargers. We're preparing for them, and we're in our second big day of our preparation. That's what we're going to work on."

There was a vote in March to have radios like the quarterbacks have in the helmet of one defensive player. The vote fell a couple votes shy. Would you be in favor of something like that?
"There are pros and cons to everything like that. It was a pretty close vote. There are plusses and minuses."

What would be some of the drawbacks defensively?
"You don't know who's going to be on the field. How many are you going to have? It's a lot easier with the quarterback position. Every team has a quarterback. It's a lot different on defense. It's not necessarily one guy."

Robert Kraft intimated the other day that perhaps because of all the success this organization has had that you become a target. Do you feel that's the case?
"Right now, I'm just focused on getting ready for the Chargers. I'm sure we're a target for them. I'm sure they're a target for us. That's really where we're at right now, short-term preparation."

Could you at least clarify one thing from your statement the other day ...
"I don't have anything else to say about it. I don't have anything else to say. I already said it. When the ruling comes back, I'll have another comment on it."

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/09/bills_take_99.html

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 02:13 PM
Again just lame....Can't you do better?

Its not me that needs to 'do better' - its your team in 'big games'.

Im not expecting a round of applause for telling you what you don't want to hear.

Your hard-nosed bad-ass team is just a just a team of serial losers who choke on the big occasion.

Thats hard to swallow, im sure.

When they played a team with a real bad-ass attitude (The Ravens) they got their asses handed to them...in two embarrasingly one-sides games.

Edman
09-13-2007, 02:16 PM
His team got caught red-handed, Some Steelers players tossup their opinions on it, so LITP resorts to Steelers smack, excuses, and rationalization on why everyone is down on the Patsies. Amazing.

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 02:19 PM
His team got caught red-handed, Some Steelers players tossup their opinions on it, so LITP resorts to Steelers smack, excuses, and rationalization on why everyone is down on the Patsies. Amazing.

Steelers smack....in the BF....on a Steelers board?

Say it ain't so. :sofunny:

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 02:25 PM
His team got caught red-handed, Some Steelers players tossup their opinions on it, so LITP resorts to Steelers smack, excuses, and rationalization on why everyone is down on the Patsies. Amazing.he seriously thinks hes defending the patriots flushed down the toilet honor, by hijacking a thread and acting like a moron. his feeble attempts to get the thread locked will all make it go away.

what a baby. :binky:

ShutDown24
09-13-2007, 02:27 PM
Belicheat is an average coach and that's all he ever will be. here is my punishment, send him back to Cleveland. Make him coach the Browns for ten years... :D

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 02:29 PM
Its not me that needs to 'do better' - its your team in 'big games'.

Im not expecting a round of applause for telling you what you don't want to hear.

Your hard-nosed bad-ass team is just a just a team of serial losers who choke on the big occasion.

Thats hard to swallow, im sure.

When they played a team with a real bad-ass attitude (The Ravens) they got their asses handed to them...in two embarrasingly one-sides games.

Until you walk us through how the Steelers have been proven to have engaged in similar types of cheating, I will assume you are lashing out because you recognize you cannot defend the indefensible.

But wth regard to choking on big occasions,are you time traveling and posting from September 2005 or will it require repressed memory therapy to get you to recall how the AFC Championship game turned out last year?

I can only guess how tough this is for fans of a "model franchise" to see its reputation go down the chute, but nothing lasts forever.

momper
09-13-2007, 02:30 PM
I just love how on Mike and Mike they brought up that Joey Porter and Hines were the only players to respond to their text messages saying that the Pats always stole plays and they knew what the steelers were running every play. Golic who thinks that this doesn't really taint their record was at a loss of words to those statements while Greenberg was kind of astonished that players were able to say that they knew what they were running. I think with these claims by the players now being backed up by indisputable evidence that the Pats should get a very harsh punishment.

LOL Lloydfan4life that is classic

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 02:30 PM
Belicheat is an average coach and that's all he ever will be. here is my punishment, send him back to Cleveland. Make him coach the Browns for ten years... :D

That is absolutely over-the-top...I think BB would rather go to prison than back to the Browns.

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 02:31 PM
I just love how on Mike and Mike they brought up that Joey Porter and Hines were the only players to respond to their text messages saying that the Pats always stole plays and they knew what the steelers were running every play. Golic who thinks that this doesn't really taint their record was at a loss of words to those statements while Greenberg was kind of astonished that players were able to say they knew what they were running. I think with these claims by the players now being backed up by indisputable evidence that the Pats should get a very harsh punishment.

Hines Ward and Porter are a pair of cry-baby whiners.

Thats been established.

ShutDown24
09-13-2007, 02:33 PM
At least they don't dance around in mocking fashion and shock because they beat the Chargers in a playoff game...

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 02:37 PM
At least they don't dance around in mocking fashion and shock because they beat the Chargers in a playoff game...


Yeah.

Joey Porter is the king of restraint.

I doubt they could have beat the Chargers anyway, so its a moot point.

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 02:40 PM
Yeah.

Joey Porter is the king of restraint.

I doubt they could have beat the Chargers anyway, so its a moot point.not without cheating anyways. anything you say is a moot point now.

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 02:49 PM
not without cheating anyways. anything you say is a moot point now.

Obviously they aren't moot or you wouldn't feel the overwhelming urge to keep replying to them.

ShutDown24
09-13-2007, 02:56 PM
It's worth replying to so we can see you squirm just like your head coach when he has to face the media lol... It's hilarious now how he is near tears behind the podium with his voice shaking and begging to talk about football as opposed to his usual "I am better than everyone" attitude. HILARIOUS.

Peezy danced but it was rarley mocking in a serious way. He just wanted to annoy the opposition more than anything. The way your Milli Vanilli team mocked LT last year was a joke. Tomlinson has more intergity and skill than all of the Patriots coaches fans and players combined.

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 02:58 PM
It's worth replying to so we can see you squirm just like your head coach when he has to face the media lol... It's hilarious now how he is near tears behind the podium with his voice shaking and begging to talk about football as opposed to his usual "I am better than everyone" attitude. HILARIOUS.

In terms of coaching he is better than everyone.

Im glad you find so much humor in his conferences - they are mostly pretty boring.

fansince'76
09-13-2007, 02:59 PM
In terms of coaching he is better than everyone.

Yep, especially with unauthorized "help" on the opposing sideline, right? :coffee:

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 03:00 PM
Yep, especially with unauthorized "help" on the opposing sideline, right? :coffee:

Even without it, dare I say.

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 03:01 PM
The way your Milli Vanilli team mocked LT last year was a joke. Tomlinson has more intergity and skill than all of the Patriots coaches fans and players combined.

I like LT - but I can see how his lapse into crybaby whiner mode would resound with a Steeler fan more used to Hines Ward and Alan Faneca.

ShutDown24
09-13-2007, 03:02 PM
Better than everyone generally means you can win in any situation, like Tony Dungy. How many rings did he win in Cleveland again? It was so many I can't even count them... No he is not better than half of the coaches in this league. Even with his successful cheating there are about 10 other HC's I would rather have.

His face is funny enough, have him try and address anything without a card or video to tell him how and you have classic America’s funniest videos... Boom goes the dynamite!

fansince'76
09-13-2007, 03:03 PM
I like LT - but I can see how his lapse into crybaby whiner mode would resound with a Steeler fan more used to Hines Ward and Alan Faneca.

Waaahhh! The whole world hates us because we're so damn good! Waahhhh! Sound familiar? :coffee:

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 03:05 PM
Better than everyone generally means you can win in any situation, like Tony Dungy. How many rings did he win in Cleveland again? It was so many I can't even count them... No he is not better than half of the coaches in this league. Even with his successful cheating there are about 10 other HC's I would rather have.

His face is funny enough, have him try and address anything without a card or video to tell him how and you have classic America?s funniest videos... Boom goes the dynamite!

Yeah, and how many rings did Saint Dungy win in Tampa Bay?

Seriously, a bit of research wouldn't go amiss next time you try and make some type of cogent, logical argument.

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 03:05 PM
Waaahhh! The whole world hates us because we're so damn good! Waahhhh! Sound familiar? :coffee:

Apart from the 'Wahhhhhh' bit - it sounds a bit like me.

ShutDown24
09-13-2007, 03:06 PM
Dungy won one in Tampa, Gruden stole it.

All the research I need is in my signature.

rbryan
09-13-2007, 03:07 PM
Cognent, logical argument?? please, you haven't had one of those since this story broke. Doesn't seem to stop you from posting

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 03:09 PM
Dungy won one in Tampa, Gruden stole it.

All the research I need is in my signature.

Ha ha.

Okay Gruden 'stole it'. :thumbsup:

ShutDown24
09-13-2007, 03:09 PM
He might as well do himself a favor and just stop saying anything... Hey - Kinda like his favorite team! Anyone wanna talk about the Cahrgers?

Hines0wnz
09-13-2007, 03:09 PM
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd95/lloydfan4life/Misc/patriots-1.jpg

:sofunny: :toofunny: :sofunny: :toofunny:


thread winner! :tt02:

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 03:10 PM
He might as well do himself a favor and just stop saying anything... Hey - Kinda like his favorite team! Anyone wanna talk about the Cahrgers?


Yeah, lets talk about the Chargers.

That Dungy line was a good one - Gruden STOLE IT.

Hahahaha.

ShutDown24
09-13-2007, 03:13 PM
Like I said... Do yourself a favor...:blah:

Ya know no hard feelings... Your just rep. OJ here =p

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 03:28 PM
Like I said... Do yourself a favor...:blah:

Ya know no hard feelings... Your just rep. OJ here =p

Ha. Don't I know it.

Course no hard feelings...what happens in the Blast Furnace... STAYS in the Blast Furnace! :toofunny:

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 03:29 PM
Ha. Don't I know it.

Course no hard feelings...what happens in the Blast Furnace... STAYS in the Blast Furnace! :toofunny:

Absoluely:cheers:

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 03:43 PM
Absoluely:cheers:

Cheers, Dan.

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 03:48 PM
But so much for reconciliation - back to yet another columnist opening up a can of whup ass on the Pats:sofunny:

SI.com columnist Don Banks refuses to give greatness its due and shows his hateful side (with a potential explanation as to why Tomlin was one of the first coaches to jump in):

[I]t is the willingness of players and coaches around the NFL to not only wade in and comment on the topic of the Patriots' cheating, but how quickly they have applied it retroactively that has caught me somewhat off guard. ...

Packers legend Brett Favre called the Patriots' video subterfuge "a serious issue,'' and said such practices "can cross the line,'' and give a team "a huge advantage.'' He admits that he now questions whether the Patriots were cheating in a game last year against the Vikings that he watched on tape for scouting purposes.

"I watched the Minnesota game [a 31-7 New England win] because we were playing them the following week, or two weeks later -- they were just flawless,'' Favre said. "Now, maybe [I question them]. Before, no.''

That's the genie that's now out of the bottle in New England, and there won't be any way to completely put it back in. Everyone who has been beaten by the Patriots in the Bill Belichick era now has the option to question the legitimacy of their victories, and that's a reality that New England didn't have to contend with just five days ago. That there is even a debate about whether the Patriots' greatness was partially aided by means of technology detracts from their accomplishments. They've already lost the benefit of the doubt in some people's minds, and that's taint enough, no matter how Goodell rules.

Belichick's fellow head coaches haven't exactly closed ranks around another member of their fraternity this week, have they? You can certainly understand where that group, which has been consistently beaten by Belichick this decade, could be feeling a healthy dose of sour grapes. But I was taken aback a bit by how no other NFL head coach seemed willing to give the Patriots a pass on this issue, winking at the whole Jets, Spies and Videotape incident.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/09/13/patriots/index.html?eref=T1

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 04:00 PM
And what to say to the kids?

The Boston Globe, a known hotbed of anti-Pats bias, persists in taking cheap shots at the home team, with a special guest appearance of hating in the article by known anti-Pats writer Frank Deford:

Feeling un-Patriotic
Belichick's apology aside, young fans question sportsmanship

The 17-year-old center of the football team at Boston College High School searched for the right words to sum up his feelings about accusations that the Patriots videotaped signals that Jets coaches sent to players during New England's 38-14 rout in Sunday's season opener.

In the wake of earlier critical reports - safety Rodney Harrison's use of human growth hormone, coach Bill Belichick's shoving of a photographer - it dawned on Geoff Gottbrecht that the Patriots had begun to remind him of a certain other, little-loved team.

"We used to be America's team," said Gottbrecht, as he stretched between plays at football practice yesterday. "Now, we're like the Yankees - we're the bad guys, and it seems like everyone out there hates us. That's the worst part about this.":toofunny:...

Frank Deford, the veteran sportswriter and commentator on National Public Radio, said the NFL should strip the Patriots of the victory.

"I think the game was tampered with, and it should be forfeited," he said in a telephone interview. "If a game is not played by the rules, it's cheating. Cheating ain't right. Once people off the field start manipulating the game, that is as evil as someone fixing the game from the outside. There's no difference than what Belichick did and if he had a gambler throw the game. He's manipulating the game by using people who aren't the players."

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/13/feeling_un_patriotic/

For a New England resident to compare someone to the Yankess is like comparing them to a child molester.

The last 48 hours once again establish that if you do not get out ahead of a bad story at the outset and elect to play the no comment card your reputation is shot.

Edman
09-13-2007, 04:13 PM
Why are people all of the sudden coming open about The Patriots' shady schemes? Players, coaches, columnists, ex-coaches. First it was the Packers and Jets, now everyone seems to be familiar with Belichock's cheating.

The world is out to get the Patriots. It's a conspiracy.

steelergirl07
09-13-2007, 04:23 PM
Why are people all of the sudden coming open about The Patriots' shady schemes? Players, coaches, columnists, ex-coaches. First it was the Packers and Jets, now everyone seems to be familiar with Belichock's cheating.

The world is out to get the Patriots. It's a conspiracy.


I think no one else came forward because they had no evidence. Just a gut feeling.

CantStop85
09-13-2007, 04:28 PM
Why are people all of the sudden coming open about The Patriots' shady schemes? Players, coaches, columnists, ex-coaches. First it was the Packers and Jets, now everyone seems to be familiar with Belichock's cheating.

The world is out to get the Patriots. It's a conspiracy.

Nah, it's just profiling.

ShutDown24
09-13-2007, 04:29 PM
That sounds weird coming from a Bengals fan...

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 04:33 PM
Bill Belichick's four step program to recover his reputation:

1. I didn't do it

2. If I did it, it's not that big a deal.

3. If it's a big deal, what other teams did is at least as big a deal

4. At least it's not dogfighting

Bobby Socks
09-13-2007, 04:40 PM
I don't think what the Pats did was really bad. It's actually really clever. That's why they are my favorite team. They play to win, and were smart enough to do this to give them an advantage.

A Steeler fan should not talking about cheating. The Steelers are known to cheat.

MACH1
09-13-2007, 04:46 PM
I don't think what the Pats did was really bad. It's actually really clever. That's why they are my favorite team. They play to win, and were smart enough to do this to give them an advantage.

A Steeler fan should not talking about cheating. The Steelers are known to cheat.

And vick is your hero. :troll:

steelergirl07
09-13-2007, 05:03 PM
I don't think what the Pats did was really bad. It's actually really clever. That's why they are my favorite team. They play to win, and were smart enough to do this to give them an advantage.

A Steeler fan should not talking about cheating. The Steelers are known to cheat.

You're secretly a Browns fan huh? That explains everything.

HometownGal
09-13-2007, 05:07 PM
I don't think what the Pats did was really bad. It's actually really clever. That's why they are my favorite team. They play to win, and were smart enough to do this to give them an advantage.

A Steeler fan should not talking about cheating. The Steelers are known to cheat.

If you were a Jets fan, would you feel the same way? I think not.

There is NOTHING clever about cheating. For you to state that what Belidick did was "smart enough to give them an advantage" is classless. Why doesn't it surprise me that you are a Pats fan? :dang:

You can put away your green cape. The color definitely doesn't become you.

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 05:20 PM
I don't think what the Pats did was really bad. It's actually really clever. That's why they are my favorite team. They play to win, and were smart enough to do this to give them an advantage.

A Steeler fan should not talking about cheating. The Steelers are known to cheat.

Mr. Socks - two questions

1 Is Belichick a target of racist law enforcement?

2. Which part of videotaping an opposing team which has a head coach that knows what you are up to was "actually really clever."

HometownGal
09-13-2007, 05:26 PM
Mr. Socks - two questions

1 Is Belichick a target of racist law enforcement?

2. Which part of videotaping an opposing team which has a head coach that knows what you are up to was "actually really clever."

SOrry, Dan, but Mr. Socks had to be escorted out. He was a previously banned member trying to sneak back in under the radar. :toofunny:

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 05:29 PM
SOrry, Dan, but Mr. Socks had to be escorted out. He was a previously banned member trying to sneak back in under the radar. :toofunny:

His posts were actually well written efforts to bait responses - Did Hardwork try to get back in?

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 06:05 PM
Hey Dan, while we are comparing articles I just found one I liked. :wink02:

Its a long read, but you know, so very worth it. :toofunny:

The cat seems to have gotten the tongues of Chris Mortensen’s ‘league sources’ as the week has progressed, but that’s only cleared the way for some of the NFL’s biggest stars - including noted clean-livers like Brett Favre and Michael Strahan - to jump in on the hi-tech lynching of Pats coach Bill Belichick.

Also jumping on the pile were Hines Ward of the Steelers and Jacksonville coach Jack Del Rio, who just happened to find convenient excuses for their own past failings in the growing controversy.

Lastly, the group that believes it has been most aggrieved by Belichick - the self-entitled, self-important media both locally and nationally - has had ample opportunity to devote themselves completely to what has always been their highest priority: revenge.

Let’s review for a moment what we know.

According to this Wednesday report from the New York Daily News, the security staff of the New York Jets apparently stopped a Patriots video assistant and attempted to confiscate his video camera as he tried to enter the New England locker room at halftime of Sunday’s game in the Meadowlands. League officials and Patriots security were on the scene as well, and according to the report, an argument raged for as much as an hour before the NFL took custody of the camera and the tape contained within it.

Clearly, we can assume the incident resulted in a formal complaint to the league by the Jets. It’s hard to imagine we’d still be talking about this - and that league spokesman Greg Aiello would have made any statement at all - if there wasn’t.

Everything - everything - we think we ‘know’ from that point is based on ESPN’s Chris Mortensen (he of the ‘Vick Will Not Be Indicted’ stories this summmer), NFL Network’s Adam Schefter, CNNSI’s Don Banks and their ‘league sources’, who, when they aren’t floating in the bottom of a highball glass in the luxury suites of the RCA Dome, happen to serve on the league’s Competition Committee.

Aiello made a brief statement on Tuesday night following a Mortensen report that Commissioner Roger Goodell had found the Patriots guilty of recording the defensive signals of Jets coaches and could render a severe penalty to New England as early as Friday. The statement denied the Mortensen report and indicated that no decision had been reached. The league has remained silent on the matter ever since.

Unfortunately, few have followed their lead. Naturally, there hasn’t been a lot of distinction between what we ‘know’ and what we ‘think’, or in some cases, what we ‘hope’. Everything’s been in bounds this week, to the extent that NESN sports anchor Hazel Mae repeatedly referred to the NFL’s “decision” and the Patriots “guilt” in her Wednesday evening reports, though according to the league, no such decision had been yet arrived at, and no such guilt had been yet established.

But ol’ Mae was pretty restrained, when compared to most of her colleagues around the nation, and predictably, around New England itself. And as players began their work week yesterday, preparing for games this Sunday, some of the league’s brightest (or maybe dimmest) lights began to comment on the controversy, and in doing so, joined Mae and her brethren in attempts to save Goodell the trouble of actually taking the matter under advisement at all.

The verdict? Guilty. The Patriots organization is guilty of cheating their way to three world championships. Belichick, the center of the controversy (to the extent that he found it necessary to apologize to the entire organization on Wednesday), is guilty of chicanery over the last three decades. The players are guilty of leveraging an unfair advantage to successes they quite likely never would have achieved without it.

The only thing missing was a threatened lawsuit by the Rutgers women’s basketball team.

It has been pure hysteria, fueled once again by a muddleheaded mainstream media that has been jumping through its ass since the early 70’s just for the privilege of being called ‘Woodstein!” by Ben Bradlee. It has been pure farce, fueled once again by a thick tongued, barely literate mainstream media that would rather be first than be right, would rather be edgy than educated, would rather be recognized than responsible.

It has been shameful, fueled once again by craven opportunists who saw only the chance even a score and excuse themselves from the spotlight that Belichick and his Patriots had once left simmering on them, though through their actions on the field, and not in the court of public opinion.

So let’s take roll call, shall we? Because what goes around surely ought to come around. The media shouldn’t be the only ones schooled in taking a number.

First we have Brett Favre, followed quickly by Michael Strahan, citing serious concern about the ethics of the situation. Joseph Ethics, founder of modern ethics (okay I’m making that up), spun wildly in his grave at the comments of this odd coupling of philosophers. However, having seen their collaborative efforts in the past, William Irony, founder of modern irony, rested comfortably.

Next, we have Hines Ward of the Pittsburgh Steelers, an impartial observer, who immediately contended (for about the fiftieth freaking time) that the Steelers, and not the Patriots, were the real AFC Champion in 2001. Heard it before, Hines. Ward, all football player between the lines, is apparently a sniveling weasel outside them.

Next up is Jack Del Rio, coach of the Jacksonville Jaguars, who (just a coincidence I suspect) chose to reflect on his 2005 playoff loss to the Patriots and - given what we now ‘know’- raise his eyebrows over mysteriously malfunctioning communications equipment at Gillette. Jack stopped shot of mentioning the delay in that playoff game while league officials labored to correct the problem, before ordering BOTH TEAMS to put away the gear until it could be fixed. Del Rio, once a fearless NFL linebacker, has apparently morphed into a mouse - a simpering, excuse making mouse.

But the opportunists who thrust themselves under halos while dancing on the perceived grave of a superior rival were nothing compared to the media that leapt on this chance to get even with Belichick for never once kissing their ass, despite their antiquated expectation that they are entitled to nothing less.

The examples are too many to mention. My index finger is on the 15 day disabled list from all the links I clicked on (and then slammed shut) over the last four days. The common thread among all of them was the profuse use of “if its true”, and “they could” and “might be” and every equivocation under the sun, though in each case, the qualifier was quickly followed by harsh, brutal judgment that wasn’t qualified at all. In any respect of the word.

One that sticks out, though, was written by former Herald columnist Howard Bryant, now working for ESPN, the home of angry, sloppy drunk ‘league sources’. In a Wednesday column, Howard led the field, now crowded less than 24 hours later, by creating a sidewalk hustler shell game by claiming that unless Goodell came down on the Patriots, and hard, he would forever be branded a patsy of Patriots owner Robert Kraft. In order to be considered a strong and independent arbiter, Goodell had no choice but to dock the Patriots cash, draft picks, and even suspensions. If he didn’t, in the mind of Bryant, he was as tainted as the Pats are thought to be.

Bryant cries for justice while uncomfortably acknowledging, in a all-too-brief disclaimer, that it is still not known what, if anything, is on the tape that now sits in league headquarters. I guess it doesn’t matter, as Howard (who pithily compares Belichick to another Bryant, Kobe, he of alleged rape fame) has already decided the punishment. The evidence, in Bryant’s world, is secondary to the ’statement’ he demands be made. A statement of fairness. A statement of justice.

.

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 06:06 PM
Here's more.

Vigilante justice.

Closer to home, leading the way in their own ‘we know what’s best for you, and it damn sure isn’t Bill Belichick’ campaign, are the Seventeen Percenters on Morrisey Blvd., who saw fit to run a front page story, positioned above the fold, about how Belichick’s actions (as defined not by Goodell, of course, but by the owners of the printing press) have affected the youth of the six-state region the Globe ’serves’. Lots of tales of abject disgust and disillusionment, as you might expect. This is the kind of thing that drives teens to despair, suicide, or even worse…..becoming Yankees fans. You have to watch that kind of stuff - that’s the next generation of Yawkey Way customers we’re talking about here. Who will speak for the children?

Naturally, the Seventeen Percenters summoned Mom, otherwise known as sports columnist Jackie MacMullan, to write a finger-wagging, tsk-tsk of a column that asked, plaintively, why? How about we start with ‘what’, Jackie? As in ‘what’ you know, today, as you write the column?

Ah, why wait? We know he’s guilty, even if Goodell doesn’t. After all, as Jim Donaldson said, it’s all in the delivery. We might be entitled to forgive a lovable rogue like Ron Meyer, regardless of his folksy transgression. But a surly despot like Belichick? Hang him, and while he’s twisting there, remind everyone - he brought it all on himself. He could have given us the access we wanted, filled out notebooks with every juicy, catty detail we craved, the respect we deserve, but instead, he dismissed us. Us! Us, who fill their stadium seats, us, who sell their merchandise, us, who buttress their charitable endeavors. Us, who MAKE them.

And Bill Belichick is the arrogant one.

Finally, I leave you this afternoon with a tidbit from Jessica Heslam, media reporter for the Boston Herald (which hasn’t exactly covered itself in glory here either, with its cartoonish photoshops and screaming headlines), who described the scene at Belichick’s terse meeting with the press on Wednesday:

One smiling, beat reporter sat with his laptop open with a picture of Richard Nixon in the background facing toward the podium where Belichick was speaking, according to a locker room spy.

Nixon, huh? That’s funny, I was just reading the Thursday article from a local beat reporter, and damn if he didn’t mention Nixon too. Come to think of it, he hasn’t always been friendly to Belichick or the Patriots. He seems like kind of a pain in the ass, frankly, one of these guys who seems to always be reaching for something to be negative about. Maybe I should just go ahead and name him, since he’s really made no effort to, you know, get along. What’s my incentive for waiting until I have some sort of factual basis to go on? I might be inclined to forgive this sort of thing - or at least defend the concept of due process - if he had just played ball a little bit. But eff him - he did it to himself. So here goes.

It’s……it’s……it’s pathetic, is what it is

The guy writes for the unbiased 'Patriots Daily'.

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 06:09 PM
hmmmm. no link. obviously must be garbage. (directed at 1st article)

did you spend all afternoon writing that yourself LITP? :chuckle:

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 06:11 PM
hmmmm. no link. obviously must be garbage.

did you spend all afternoon writing that yourself LITP? :chuckle:

Ha.

No way.

http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/pat-hetic/

HometownGal
09-13-2007, 06:14 PM
His posts were actually well written efforts to bait responses - Did Hardwork try to get back in?

No - not hardwork unless he used a proxy to mask his location.

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 06:21 PM
Ha.

No way.

http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/pat-hetic/

did you see mclaren motorsports (of F1) was fined "$100,000,000 for spying on and stealing specs of rival ferrari? :jawdrop: and both their drivers stripped of their leads in the standings?

crazy european sports.

anyways why dont you try to find an article that doesnt blame all this hooplah on the media and that isnt written by the most biased, blind, homeristic, fanbase on some patriots website blogosphere.

i doubt youre gonna find one unless sean salsbury is writing for espn.

ShutDown24
09-13-2007, 06:23 PM
Boy it's not been a good few weeks for Tommy boy has it... His school sucks and now we findo ut his current team does as well... I feel bad for his son, born in the same stretch as such things... I hope it's not a bad omen =p

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 06:33 PM
did you see mclaren motorsports (of F1) was fined "$100,000,000 for spying on and stealing specs of rival ferrari? :jawdrop: and both their drivers stripped of their leads in the standings?

crazy european sports..

It was the team that was docked all of its points - the actual drivers keep their points _ So Alonso and Hamilton remain favorites.

Funnily enough, this does have some sort of parallel - i've read alot of interviews from ex-drivers and team employee's who swear this espionage thing has been going on since f1 started.

Chief engineers have literally been caught with a flashlight underneath the chassis of a rival car in the middle of the night.


anyways why dont you try to find an article that doesnt blame all this hooplah on the media and that isnt written by the most biased, blind, homeristic, fanbase on some patriots website blogosphere.

i doubt youre gonna find one unless sean salsbury is writing for espn.

Like I say, I thought that was excellent article - I don't think the Patriots , and Belichick in particular, have many fans in the area of 'media'- probably because he gives them absolutely no help in doing their job.

The latest scare story from a Boston TV channel has the Patriots being docked a 1st and 3rd round pick - but then these were the guys who reported that Belichick was being summoned to NY for a face to face with Goodell.

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 06:48 PM
It was the team that was docked all of its points - the actual drivers keep their points _ So Alonso and Hamilton remain favorites.

Funnily enough, this does have some sort of parallel - i've read alot of interviews from ex-drivers and team employee's who swear this espionage thing has been going on since f1 started.

Chief engineers have literally been caught with a flashlight underneath the chassis of a rival car in the middle of the night.
definite similarities although they will halt at the punishments delivered.

auto racing (atleast in america anyways) has always practically flaunted the mantra "if you aint cheatin, you aint tryin". of course youre dealing with evolving technology and ever changing rules and regulations and toeing the fine line and rubbing elbows with the gray areas is almost expected. in football youre dealing with 100 yards and a ball that remains the same.

NASCAR has upped its effort to weed out the cheaters, infact their 2 top drivers in the points standings (who also happen to be teammates) had their crew cheifs suspended for 6 races this season. funny how all these teams are on top are also busted cheating.

lots of dynamics working here and i dont think coincidence is one of them.

touchdownward
09-13-2007, 06:49 PM
His posts were actually well written efforts to bait responses - Did Hardwork try to get back in?
Probably not, none of his 10 posts contained the term "cry me a river". :chuckle:

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 06:51 PM
definite similarities although they will halt at the punishments delivered.

auto racing (atleast in america anyways) has always practically flaunted the mantra "if you aint cheatin, you aint tryin". of course youre dealing with evolving technology and ever changing rules and regulations and toeing the fine line and rubbing elbows with the gray areas is almost expected. in football youre dealing with 100 yards and a ball that remains the same.

NASCAR has upped its effort to weed out the cheaters, infact their 2 top drivers in the points standings (who also happen to be teammates) had their crew cheifs suspended for 6 races this season. funny how all these teams are on top are also busted cheating.

lots of dynamics working here and i dont think coincidence is one of them.

Well, yeah, its a natural evolution - you set the rules, then the guys affected by those rules expend alot of effort trying to bend, weasel and trick their way round them.

Then we get a new set of rules...then the process starts again.

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 06:52 PM
Probably not, none of his 10 posts contained the term "cry me a river". :chuckle:

Heh heh.

:toofunny:

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 07:03 PM
Ha.

No way.

http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/pat-hetic/

LITP - Thanks for the link to the story posted on the Pats online version of Pravda

This from the website's masthead

We're striving to be the top Patriots destination on the Internet. During the season, we'll have new content each day of the week, examining new angles and viewpoints you won't get anywhere else

Hard to argue with their contention that their viewpoints will not be found anywhere else.:dang:

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 07:18 PM
heres a preview of the belichick/goodell meeting:

Roger Goodell-
Did you order the cameraman to tape the jets?!? We deserve the TRUTH!

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/tomcruise.jpg


Bill Belichick-
YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!

Yes, I ordered the code red Goddammit!
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/a_few_good_men.jpg
(thanks to miami's trent green for the idea.)

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 07:23 PM
This from SI.com

By Don Banks and Peter King, SI.com

One of the disciplinary options that the NFL is considering against Patriots head coach Bill Belichick for New England's illegal videotaping of New York Jets defensive coaches on Sunday includes both the stripping of a first-day 2008 draft pick from the Patriots -- perhaps a first rounder -- and a suspension of either two or three games for Belichick, SI.com has learned.

NFL sources said league commissioner Roger Goodell has not yet decided Belichick's punishment, and that there are still several options, varying in severity, under consideration. Goodell is still expected to announce his decision on Friday, sources said.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/09/13/belichick/index.html

The reaction from Belichick if Goodell pulls the trigger - something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhGJQ6TjrCQ

tony hipchest
09-13-2007, 07:35 PM
This from SI.com

By Don Banks and Peter King, SI.com

One of the disciplinary options that the NFL is considering against Patriots head coach Bill Belichick for New England's illegal videotaping of New York Jets defensive coaches on Sunday includes both the stripping of a first-day 2008 draft pick from the Patriots -- perhaps a first rounder -- and a suspension of either two or three games for Belichick, SI.com has learned.

NFL sources said league commissioner Roger Goodell has not yet decided Belichick's punishment, and that there are still several options, varying in severity, under consideration. Goodell is still expected to announce his decision on Friday, sources said.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/09/13/belichick/index.html

The reaction from Belichick if Goodell pulls the trigger - something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhGJQ6TjrCQ:toofunny: "Honor, Code, and Loyalty"

trent green was commenting how strange it was that nobody (in the media or amongst his friends i assume) has came up with this comparisson yet.

"im gonna rip the eyes outta your head!"

"you have no idea how to defend a dynasty!" :sofunny:

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 08:00 PM
LITP - Thanks for the link to the story posted on the Pats online version of Pravda

This from the website's masthead

We're striving to be the top Patriots destination on the Internet. During the season, we'll have new content each day of the week, examining new angles and viewpoints you won't get anywhere else

Hard to argue with their contention that their viewpoints will not be found anywhere else.:dang:

Ha ha.

Pravda.

And the commie insinuation's continue.:sofunny:

I thought it had just the right amount of moral indignation to soothe the ails of a suffering Patriots fan (they all hate us....and this proves it goddamit).

I didn't figure you for a such a keen dissecter of Sports Illustrated (thats the one that comes with the free crayons with issue 1, right?) - but I guess they do have some pretty pictures and all.

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 08:09 PM
Ha ha.

I didn't figure you for a such a keen dissecter of Sports Illustrated (thats the one that comes with the free crayons with issue 1, right?) - but I guess they do have some pretty pictures and all.

Very pretty pictures - SI is the Pats hating rag that has the headline "Tom Brady As God" on this week's cover, accompanied by a picture of Moss and the prescient statement "Scary - The Patriots Send A Shiver Throughout The NFL" (in ways SI could not imagine:sofunny:)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/2007/0917.html
.

Preacher
09-13-2007, 08:22 PM
You know...

it is funny how much this whole story explains about the Pats and the coach... how he got so good so fast, as opposed to being in Cleveland.

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-13-2007, 08:30 PM
amazing how one mans selfishness win at all costs not matter what it cost, sore loser stomp your feet and act like a 3 year old child attitude effected the whole entire league. And Brady ain't no better when he loses he's mentored by the best Bellicheat

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-13-2007, 08:43 PM
I would have to say HELL yes. Last I looked Brady was the QB of the New England Cheaters and I'd be hard pressed to think he had absolutely no idea what was going one. I mean come on now. :coffee:

IS BRADY TARNISHED, TOO?

At the risk of inviting another 500 or so e-mails, we need to address a twist to this whole Patriots Act ordeal that we have yet to tackle, but that we have been pondering for the past 36 hours or so.

Do the revelations of stolen defensive signals diminish the reputation and perceived abilities of quarterback Tom Brady?

If the goal of the brazenly overt operations was to help the team know the tactics that an opposing defense would employ on a given play (either on game day or the next time the two teams met), the player squarely in the eye of the storm of information was Brady. And, surely, he knew (or at least suspected) that the intelligence that the offensive coaches had about what a given defense might be doing didn't come from legitimate methods.

So, as an industry source posed the question to us this morning, what did Brady know, and when did he know it?

Unless and until Brady comes clean with a full and frank -- and credible -- explanation about his first-hand experiences, it fairly can be presumed that his legend has been fueled by the advantage derived from the actions for which the Patriots undoubtedly will be punished, as soon as Friday.

How many times has Brady come up with a key play late in a close game? In those occasions, how many times did he know exactly what the defense would be doing?

Part of the effectiveness of a blitz is the element of surprise. And a quarterback's challenge in that situation is to spot the corresponding gap in the coverage, and to get the ball to the receiver who'll likely be wide open in the sliver of time that the quarterback has to unload the ball before landing on his butt.

If the quarterback knows that the blitz is coming before the play is snapped, and if he knows who'll be blitzing, the task of finding that open receiver suddenly becomes a lot easier.

How many times have we seen Brady fire the ball to a wide open receiver an instant after Brady got the snap? How, in those cases, did he know so quickly that the guy would be open?

Though we realize that there are many factors that influence the ability of the team to achieve success on the field, most of which are unrelated to cheating, the added advantage that can come from knowing what the defense is going to do can make a huge difference. Otherwise, the Patriots (and other teams) wouldn't be devoting time and effort and money in order to find out, through legitimate and/or illegitimate means.

As we see it, the fact that the Patriots did what they allegedly/apparently/actually did creates a presumption that a benefit came from it. The fact that Brady has been the quarterback since 2001 creates a presumption that he knew or should have known what was going on. The fact that he took less money to stay in New England suggests that he knew (or feared) that he might not be able to replicate his success in a system that doesn't involve videotaping defensive signals. So unless he comes clean, we think it's fair to believe that, but for the added benefits that came from knowing what the defense was doing via techniques that crossed the line, he might have performed more like a sixth-round draft pick and less like a future Hall of Famer.

Regardless of whether he opts not to disclose what he knew and when he knew it, we think that Brady will be required to achieve a high level of success under another coach, and possibly with another team, before he is regarded as being truly worthy of Canton.

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 08:49 PM
I guess we'll see.

Now that the huge advantage of taping opponents signals (as opposed to just trying to look at them through binoculars) has been removed I expect the Patriots to slump straight to the bottom of the AFCE.

Brady will go back to being a QB who more resembles his 6th round status and in 3 years time it will be the Los Angeles Patriots.

Ha.

jasonpirkle
09-13-2007, 08:50 PM
From ESPN.com : Belichick Fined; Pats Lose Pick
Bill Belichick was hit with a $500,000 fine Thursday night -- the maximum allowable by NFL by-laws -- for violating the league's policy on videotaping the Jets defensive signs Sunday. In addition, Roger Goodell notified the Patriots that they would forfeit a 2008 first-round draft choice if they reach the playoffs, or second- and third-round picks if they do not qualify for the playoffs. The club was also fined $250,000.

Livinginthe past
09-13-2007, 08:52 PM
Very pretty pictures - SI is the Pats hating rag that has the headline "Tom Brady As God" on this week's cover, accompanied by a picture of Moss and the prescient statement "Scary - The Patriots Send A Shiver Throughout The NFL" (in ways SI could not imagine:sofunny:)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/2007/0917.html
.

Hey I never accused them of being Patriots-haters, just incompetent know-nothings.

Brady is clearly the Devil - and a cheating, over-rated one at that.

As for Randy - he is over-rated and lazy.

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-13-2007, 08:55 PM
From ESPN.com : Belichick Fined; Pats Lose Pick
Bill Belichick was hit with a $500,000 fine Thursday night -- the maximum allowable by NFL by-laws -- for violating the league's policy on videotaping the Jets defensive signs Sunday. In addition, Roger Goodell notified the Patriots that they would forfeit a 2008 first-round draft choice if they reach the playoffs, or second- and third-round picks if they do not qualify for the playoffs. The club was also fined $250,000.

Sorry not enough for me would have liked to see Billacheat suspended for at least 4 games and one draft pick "if" they make the playoffs THAT'S IT! They have TWO FREAKING first round draft picks next year :yawn:

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-13-2007, 09:35 PM
Goodell's press release

This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field. Coach Belicheat no only serves as the head coach but also has substantial control over all aspects of New England's football operations. His actions and decisions are properly attributed to the club. I specifically considered whether to impose a suspension on Coach Billicheat . I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeitures of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective than a suspension."

Ahhh I say the same thing I said in the NFL Forum New England has TWO first round draft picks next year and an extra 3 rounder. Personally the time does not fit the crime.

83-Steelers-43
09-13-2007, 10:04 PM
Wonder if the penalty would be the same if it wasn't "The Genius" or the mighty Patriots?

I'm sure that $500,000 is really putting a dent in Belichick's bank account. Great message to send to the players. If your a stiff coach and you cheat, you get a fine. If you happen to be a player and you are busted with steroids, you are out four games. :coffee:

Wow, that Goodell really came down hard on a HC who cheated the game. Good job.

Oh well, as long as the guy is now known as a complete hack by the majority of football fans from here on out, that's all that matters to me. What happened in the past is unchangeable.

Atlanta Dan
09-13-2007, 10:31 PM
Wonder if the penalty would be the same if it wasn't "The Genius" or the mighty Patriots?

I'm sure that $500,000 is really putting a dent in Belichick's bank account. Great message to send to the players. If your a stiff coach and you cheat, you get a fine. If you happen to be a player and you are busted with steroids, you are out four games. :coffee:

Wow, that Goodell really came down hard on a HC who cheated the game. Good job.

Oh well, as long as the guy is now known as a complete hack by the majority of football fans from here on out, that's all that matters to me. What happened in the past is unchangeable.

:iagree:

The gift that has to keep on giving is that their coach's conduct causes the Pats to be reviled during every road game and that the league does not put out the word that no "New England Cheaters" banners can be displayed in stadiums.

I actually hope having his team despised will wear down a coach that has until now (e.g. - Halberstam's Education Of a Coach ) been a media golden child.

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-14-2007, 01:46 AM
Bellicheat the aftermath and the "apology" a weak one at that. Guess he forgot to apologize to the rest of the league for screwing them out of any possible playoff appearances, wins and/or super bowls. Seems he hasn't learned his lesson either because he's calling it a "mistake." Maybe someone ought tell him that a mistake is caused by insufficient knowledge he still doesn't realize that his actions were deliberate and blatant and not a "mistake." I see he's hasn't lost his arrogance.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3018338

Belichick, however, accepted full responsibility "for the actions that led to tonight's ruling. Once again, I apologize to the Kraft family and every person directly or indirectly associated with the New England Patriots for the embarrassment, distraction and penalty my :toofunny: mistake :toofunny: caused."

"I also apologize to Patriots fans and would like to thank them for their support during the past few days and throughout my career," Belichick said in a statement issued by the team. "As the commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game.

:toofunny: We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress." :toofunny:

Part of my job as head coach is to ensure that our football operations are conducted in compliance of the league rules and all accepted interpretations of them. My interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect. :puke::puke:

With tonight's resolution, I will not be offering any further comments on this matter. We are moving on with our preparations for Sunday's game.

Steelman16
09-14-2007, 02:21 AM
I still don't understand how he could have interpreted the laws any different way than the way they're written. I must question his IQ status. :wink02:

Still, I'm glad Goodell put the foot down, though I wish he'd used a boot instead of a shoe. Suspension for a game or two seemed appropriate to me.

TroysBadDawg
09-14-2007, 04:24 AM
I still don't understand how he could
Still, I'm glad Goodell put the foot down, though I wish he'd used a boot instead of a shoe. Suspension for a game or two seemed appropriate to me.

Seams to me he used a fluffy little slipper.

The cheater should have gotten at least a 6 (four) game suspension. Lifetime ban max. He was warned by the NFL last year about the same thing.

last September a letter was sent out to all coaches from the league. "Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game," said the warning from league vice president Ray Anderson. In the league's rule book, on page 105, the video ban is as clear as day. "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game,'' the rules state.

But he did it anyway, claims he didn't understand or know??? Right! He thinks he is the Teflon Coach and it looks like he is right. Maybe he has some pictures of Goodell and someone Goodell doesn't want seen. He does seem to have Cameramen everwhere.

Dallas assistant coach Wade Wilson got suspended five games and fined $100,000 this month for using the banned substance HGH to treat impotency, Goodell told him coaches have to be held to a higher standard. So I guess they feel this cheater is above the other coaches? He doesn't need to be held to a higher standard?

Goodell is a joke with his even handed display of justice.

GO BROWNS

GO CRENNEL ... FAR AWAY FROM CLEVELAND

steeler43pa
09-14-2007, 11:16 AM
Hello, this is my first post although I have been reading here for over a year. I want to say the slap on the wrist BB and the pats got is a slap in the face for the rest of the nfl and fans. Understandably the PATS and NFL want this to go away and real fast. That is what this punishment is about. Making this just go away. Loosing money and draft picks. Common this is the PATS we are talking about. They surely seem to be able to take adverage players and make them into elite players.

Better than money, draft picks and/or suppension of the HC, the NFL should have taken possesion of all the tapes they have of other teams they made themselves in this manner. This should have been investigated much futher than it was. The fans and other 31 teams deserve to know the extent of the cheating and how much it really did help them. Further BB should need to explain all this to the NFL world via and unbias interview.

I find it hard to believe that it did not help in the JETS win. Ok so lets say it did't and it was for the next time the two teams meet. Why then would they tape Green Bay? Just in case they meet in the SB? Really now what was the chance on that happening last year.

Lastly part of this punishment or should we say non punishment should have been a physical guarantee during the next 15 games and the post season if they make it that this will not happen again.
Further more the sad thing is there is no way the NE players or at least some of them didn't know about this. They had to for it to work. Mostly the offensive players.

Last thing is the apology. Anyone reading it can determine it is completely bogus and BB could care less. They got away with it. They might not be able to do it again for a while but they did basically get away with it. Not once did he mention the JETS organization which if he had some class and a real set between his legs he would have.

However NFL fans, now we should get to see the real PATS play. Lets see just how good they are the rest of the season. Lets see now the blow out wins and complete domination of other teams. If they run into mediocracy then we'll know how much the cheating helped.

Hines0wnz
09-14-2007, 12:13 PM
What a shame. The punishment was kind of light in my estimation. I would have agreed a forfeiture of the Jets game to be in order had it been a 7 points or closer game. Fairly significant fines on BB (the league max is what I read somewhere this morning?) and the Pats but losing 1 or maybe 2 draft picks isnt really hurting them. Okay, one less pick in the first round, fine, more money for a good FA pick up. I hate to draw a parallel with the Vick and Jones suspensions but it cannot be helped in this case. In all three situations, the NFL looks bad. Two of them were off the field problems while the other occurred during a game (a la Pete Rose & the Reds games, although thats gambling I know). How is cheating during an actual NFL game any less offensive than run ins with the law or taking steroids or HGH? I believe its as offensive, if not more so, to actively cheat on your opponent in an NFL game. I like Goodell but he has certainly missed a chance to lay some lumber on the Patsies.

The message has clearly been sent to the league. If you cheat such as this, you keep your win but lose draft picks and get fined. Dont tell me every coach and owner in the league just thought that those are worth a playoff and/or SB win. That is how I would interpret it, right Bill?

dragtruk
09-14-2007, 08:06 PM
Hi everyone. New guy here. I grew up in PA, but for wife and work now live in New England. I gotta say, that this whole Patriots thing makes me smile all day long. I can't tell you how much I hate these f*cking pricks up here. Jesus, they win 3 SB's and you would think they've won them all. After I straightened a few of these dumbasses out on number of SB wins, and playoff appearances, they STILL couldn't shut their stupid mouths. They were riding me about how pathetic the Steelers SB parade was with only 150,000 showing up, when the Patriots had a couple million or something. They're so freakin' stupid they don't comprehend that the Pats are the ONLY team within a 6 state stretch. I told them "You go the same distance around Pittsburgh and you have Cincy, Cleveland, Buffalo, Philly, and maybe Baltimore and Detroit. None of whose fans are coming to any Steelers victory party."
Just want to blow off some steam, and let you guys know, I'm still loyal to the black and gold. The Patriots and there Sh*t heel fans got what they deserve. I would love to see them tailgating in the Pahkin' lawt faw the next game, sitting around making excuses and pledging to hahba bad feelings for the NFL. F*ck Boston. I hate the people, the ignorant fans, their stupid accent, and their cheating team. Steelers RULE!

fansince'76
09-14-2007, 08:29 PM
Hi everyone. New guy here. I grew up in PA, but for wife and work now live in New England. I gotta say, that this whole Patriots thing makes me smile all day long. I can't tell you how much I hate these f*cking pricks up here. Jesus, they win 3 SB's and you would think they've won them all. After I straightened a few of these dumbasses out on number of SB wins, and playoff appearances, they STILL couldn't shut their stupid mouths. They were riding me about how pathetic the Steelers SB parade was with only 150,000 showing up, when the Patriots had a couple million or something. They're so freakin' stupid they don't comprehend that the Pats are the ONLY team within a 6 state stretch. I told them "You go the same distance around Pittsburgh and you have Cincy, Cleveland, Buffalo, Philly, and maybe Baltimore and Detroit. None of whose fans are coming to any Steelers victory party."
Just want to blow off some steam, and let you guys know, I'm still loyal to the black and gold. The Patriots and there Sh*t heel fans got what they deserve. I would love to see them tailgating in the Pahkin' lawt faw the next game, sitting around making excuses and pledging to hahba bad feelings for the NFL. F*ck Boston. I hate the people, the ignorant fans, their stupid accent, and their cheating team. Steelers RULE!

Welcome aboard, dragtruk! :cheers: You and LITP should hit it off really well. :toofunny:

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-14-2007, 10:24 PM
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd95/lloydfan4life/Misc/patriots-1.jpg

LF4L your famous take a look.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/photo.htm

MasterOfPuppets
09-15-2007, 02:14 AM
Nah, I can't take credit for that beautiful work of art.
I got it from a friend via email and just passed it along to all of you.

The only thing I'm famous for is sleeping in the garage.......... just ask Woodsonsgirl! :sofunny: (oh yeah...... and the ocassional binge at the Tavernknuckle with MOP!) :cheers:
:thumbsup:...:cheers:.... waz up bro!!! you ain't been around much.