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Edman
09-10-2007, 02:49 PM
It seems a man hired by the Patriots gets caught with field credentials and a camera, apparently zooming for signs and schemes.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=68#s=68&f=1897&t=993042

I'm gong to look more into this. If this is true...

Or this could be the Jets insiders looking for excuses for their team sucking so bad yesterday.

fansince'76
09-10-2007, 03:05 PM
I'd like to see something a little more credible than gossip on a message board. I think the following post in that thread sums it up:

Sounds to me like some Jets' insiders are a bit upset at yesterday's beat-down, and are providing a spectacular (and false) excuse for the loss.

If the Jets lose to the Ravens next week, I suppose we'll hear that a dog ate the Jets' gameplan. The Seahawks have already exhausted the ol' 'referees blew it' excuse...time to get a little more creative.

Sounds a lot like sour grapes to me as well. Nobody loses anymore - they just get "cheated" in some way.

MACH1
09-10-2007, 03:06 PM
It wouldn't surprise me. They've done some real shady things there in patsie land.

Edman
09-10-2007, 03:24 PM
It's starting to get some legs! Ruh ROH!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3012989

fansince'76
09-10-2007, 03:27 PM
Well, if it is true, they should forfeit the game and lose draft picks.

Livinginthe past
09-10-2007, 03:45 PM
We'll see.

You ever wonder why coaches call the plays with clipboards over their mouths?

Its because teams spend quite a bit of time trying to work out what the other team is doing - thats football.

This isn't the first time the Jets have been owned by the Patriots on the football field and then thrown out a boat load of accusations and excuses.

Thinking about it, I wonder why this guy gave up the Patriots so quick - seriously - if the Evil Empire had hired a guy to blatantly film play calling or whatever, then I don't think they would pick someone who would drop the patriots in ti with 24 hours of being caught :toofunny:

CantStop85
09-10-2007, 03:45 PM
http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgMP0163.jpg

How embarassing.

tony hipchest
09-10-2007, 03:51 PM
This isn't the first time the Jets have been owned by the Patriots on the football field and then thrown out a boat load of accusations and excuses. i guess it wouldnt be the 1st time the pats cheated, now would it?

The league's competition committee could conduct a conference call about the incident, which violates NFL policy, and ultimately recommend a penalty that could cost the Patriots a future draft pick or picks if it verifies that the team was spying on the Jets.

"It's not their first time," a member of the committee, who did not wish to be identified, said.

In fact, Green Bay Packers president Bob Harlan confirmed a similar incident that occurred when the Patriots played at Lambeau Field last Nov. 19. The same cameraman who was questioned by NFL security on Sunday was also the one whom the Packers removed from the sideline and escorted from the field during their 2006 game, according to Packers security official Doug Collins.

Livinginthe past
09-10-2007, 03:53 PM
"It's not their first time," a member of the committee, who did not wish to be identified, said.

Thatsa strong source then.

The best bit is where we decided to cheat against the Packers - obviously we needed every possible advantage against an 8-8 NFC team :toofunny:

I'll bet we have plenty of people willing this to be true.

tony hipchest
09-10-2007, 03:58 PM
The best bit is where we decided to cheat against the Packers - obviously we needed every possible advantage against an 8-8 NFC team :toofunny:

it suggests they cheat against everybody. do you really think harrison did drugs just for the jets? if it looks like horseshit and smells like horseshit...

Atlanta Dan
09-10-2007, 03:59 PM
We'll see.

You ever wonder why coaches call the plays with clipboards over their mouths?

Its because teams spend quite a bit of time trying to work out what the other team is doing - thats football.

This isn't the first time the Jets have been owned by the Patriots on the football field and then thrown out a boat load of accusations and excuses.

Thinking about it, I wonder why this guy gave up the Patriots so quick - seriously - if the Evil Empire had hired a guy to blatantly film play calling or whatever, then I don't think they would pick someone who would drop the patriots in ti with 24 hours of being caught :toofunny:

According to the story I have read, apparently the Packers also were sore losers when they previously had issues with a Pats "cameraman."

Goodell needs to cut a quick immunity deal with the cameraman in order to break down this most heinous of criminal conspiracies and expose the Pats as the RICO entrerprise some have always suspected them to be.

Let's see if the cameraman is more loyal to his Pats masters than P-Funk and Q were to Ookie.:sofunny:

MasterOfPuppets
09-10-2007, 03:59 PM
the SAME guy gets busted 2 times at 2 different patriot games....coincidence? i think not.....:coffee:

GUILTY !!!!

Livinginthe past
09-10-2007, 04:04 PM
it suggests they cheat against everybody. do you really think harrison did drugs just for the jets? if it looks like horseshit and smells like horseshit...

They cheat?

What Harrison did, he did on his own to try and get back to the team.

When the shit hit the fan the Patriots didn't bias the investigation at all - he got caught and will be punished.

Nothing will come of this latest episode int he Jets 'dirty tricks' campaign.

To suggest that the Patriots would hire someone to do something that might cost them a game and/or draft picks - and do it using the same camera man who got 'busted' the first time in GreenBay - well theres always someone out there willing to sell you a bridge!

Livinginthe past
09-10-2007, 04:06 PM
According to the story I have read, apparently the Packers also were sore losers when they previously had issues with a Pats "cameraman."

Goodell needs to cut a quick immunity deal with the cameraman in order to break down this most heinous of criminal conspiracies and expose the Pats as the RICO entrerprise some have always suspected them to be.

Let's see if the cameraman is more loyal to his Pats masters than P-Funk and Q were to Ookie.:sofunny:

Heh heh.

The Feds need to be brought in on this one.

The guy could be the star witness - he's already rolled on his employers - who were easily identified due to the fact he was wearing his Patriots I.D.

Its only a matter of time before they close this rats nest down and move it all to L.A. - its the only sane thing to do.

HometownGal
09-10-2007, 04:06 PM
Why am I not shocked? I think I'm going to wait, though, until the league investigation is over before I cast a stone, even though from the information available at the present time, it doesn't look too promising for the Pats.

Livinginthe past
09-10-2007, 04:08 PM
the SAME guy gets busted 2 times at 2 different patriot games....coincidence? i think not.....:coffee:

GUILTY !!!!

He's a PATRIOTS cameraman - he's at EVERY PATRIOTS GAME!! :chuckle:

Atlanta Dan
09-10-2007, 04:10 PM
Heh heh.

The Feds need to be brought in on this one.

The guy could be the star witness - he's already rolled on his employers - who were easily identified due to the fact he was wearing his Patriots I.D.

Its only a matter of time before they close this rats nest down and move it all to L.A. - its the only sane thing to do.

After Belichick and Kraft each serve one year in prison as the masters of BadNewz Video for conspiracy to engage in theft of trade secrets I suppose they can apply for reinstatement, although a lifetime ban seems reasonable to me.:smile:

Livinginthe past
09-10-2007, 04:12 PM
After Belichick and Kraft each serve one year in prison for conspiracy to engage in theft of trade secrets I suppose they can apply for reinstatement, although a lifetime ban seems reasonable to me.:smile:

A lifetime ban is the only way to deal sensibly with this - and they should serve their time in a max security jail..in New York.

That'll teach 'em.

tony hipchest
09-10-2007, 04:12 PM
They cheat?

What Harrison did, he did on his own to try and get back to the team.

When the shit hit the fan the Patriots didn't bias the investigation at all - he got caught and will be punished.

Nothing will come of this latest episode int he Jets 'dirty tricks' campaign.

To suggest that the Patriots would hire someone to do something that might cost them a game and/or draft picks - and do it using the same camera man who got 'busted' the first time in GreenBay - well theres always someone out there willing to sell you a bridge!ummm. the guy with the camera "suggested" it. i wonder if tagliabue is on the phone with goodell suggesting he let this one slide? after all, if the pats say theyre innocent it must be true. even mike vick had no idea dogfighting was going on at his house. and of course pac man is always just an innocent bstander in the wrong place at the wrong time.

where theres smoke theres fire.

who knows, maybe its just a disgruntled jets fan who follows the patriots to every game in hopes of setting them up and getting them busted :rolleyes:

Livinginthe past
09-10-2007, 04:13 PM
where theres smoke theres fire.

70's Steelers were riddled with steroids.

Can't prove it, of course.

But wheres the smoke, there's fire :wink02:

MasterOfPuppets
09-10-2007, 04:16 PM
don't you think they'ed have checked the tape for evidence, before sending it to the proper authorities?

Livinginthe past
09-10-2007, 04:19 PM
don't you think they'ed have checked the tape for evidence, before sending it to the proper authorities?

Evidence of what?

The guy is stood their wearing his Patriots I.D. - he's already been accused of this nonsense once before.

What could he have on that camera?

A simple case of throwing some mud at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Atlanta Dan
09-10-2007, 04:26 PM
don't you think they'ed have checked the tape for evidence, before sending it to the proper authorities?

Chain of custody - can't tamper with evidence (I actually am not joking about that).

I really do not know who other than the Commissioner is the "proper authority" here, unless the Pats are in really big trouble and have pi**ed off Steve Sabol and NFL Films by poaching on NFL Films exclusive right to film the action from the sidelines.

If so, no more hagiographic depictions of Chick & Tom Terrific by the NFL's Ministry of Propoganda - instead next year's highlight film will be titled "The 2007 New England Patriots - Legacy of Shame"

MasterOfPuppets
09-10-2007, 05:05 PM
Evidence of what?

The guy is stood their wearing his Patriots I.D. - he's already been accused of this nonsense once before.

What could he have on that camera?

A simple case of throwing some mud at the wall and seeing what sticks.
i'd say pointing a camera at the coordinator sending in the plays for an unreasonable amount of time ,could be looked upon as evidence. apparently twice now,its been the case.

MasterOfPuppets
09-10-2007, 05:09 PM
Chain of custody - can't tamper with evidence (I actually am not joking about that).

I really do not know who other than the Commissioner is the "proper authority" here, unless the Pats are in really big trouble and have pi**ed off Steve Sabol and NFL Films by poaching on NFL Films exclusive right to film the action from the sidelines.

If so, no more hagiographic depictions of Chick & Tom Terrific by the NFL's Ministry of Propoganda - instead next year's highlight film will be titled "The 2007 New England Patriots - Legacy of Shame"

:toofunny: good stuff....

but tampering with evidence,and viewing " possible " evidence to see if there's a legitament case, should be 2 different things.

HometownGal
09-10-2007, 05:25 PM
70's Steelers were riddled with steroids.

But wheres the smoke, there's fire :wink02:

Ahem . . . .

Gee Rodney - where'd ya get those guns and that tree trunk neck? :toofunny::flap:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/ChadFinn/more%20pics%201/rodney.jpg

RoethlisBURGHer
09-10-2007, 05:57 PM
70's Steelers were riddled with steroids.

Can't prove it, of course.

But wheres the smoke, there's fire :wink02:

Yeah...and in the 70's 'roids were readily available, not illegal, and not a banned substance. Not to mention Steelers from that era have admitted to using them. Mike Webster is the most notable of them all.

Atlanta Dan
09-10-2007, 06:10 PM
Yeah...and in the 70's 'roids were readily available, not illegal, and not a banned substance. Not to mention Steelers from that era have admitted to using them. Mike Webster is the most notable of them all.

FWIW my recollection is that while Courson said the O-line was on the juice that Webster always denied using.

MasterOfPuppets
09-10-2007, 06:11 PM
Yeah...and in the 70's 'roids were readily available, not illegal, and not a banned substance. Not to mention Steelers from that era have admitted to using them. Mike Webster is the most notable of them all.
i'd bet 3/4 of the nfl were on roids in the 70's........was there a point to this?

jjpro11
09-10-2007, 06:14 PM
they've had a couple weird incidents like this now. i really dont know what to make of it, other than it looks just plain childish. maybe its a belichick-mangini thing again. if so, belichick really needs to let that go.

Elvis
09-10-2007, 06:20 PM
They are talking about this issue on the Monday Night Countdown as we speak. This is something that should be taken seriously by the NFL and if the Patriots are found guilty then they should have to forfeit that game, just plain and simple. Sounds like something these guys would try to get away with though doesnt it?.. not just the Patriots but anyone.
:tt02:

harp79
09-10-2007, 06:41 PM
Agreed. If found guilty we should be seeing an astrick next to the 2001, 2003, 2004 Superbowls. What a shame.

I just keep thinking of all those children...

Cape Cod Steel Head
09-10-2007, 06:42 PM
They are also reporting up here on all the 6:00 news stations.

Livinginthe past
09-10-2007, 06:46 PM
they've had a couple weird incidents like this now. i really dont know what to make of it, other than it looks just plain childish. maybe its a belichick-mangini thing again. if so, belichick really needs to let that go.

Thats a good one.

The only thing missing would be some actual logic - the Jets kick up a stink and its Belichick who needs to 'let it go'? :toofunny:

Whatever.

Livinginthe past
09-10-2007, 06:47 PM
Agreed. If found guilty we should be seeing an astrick next to the 2001, 2003, 2004 Superbowls. What a shame.

I just keep thinking of all those children...

Ha.

Tell you what though.

It still looks sweet listed out like that. :cheers:

Oh, the humanity...........

jjpro11
09-10-2007, 06:52 PM
Thats a good one.

The only thing missing would be some actual logic - the Jets kick up a stink and its Belichick who needs to 'let it go'? :toofunny:

Whatever.

its obvious belechick is not fond of mangini. if you ask me, i say they are both acting like little babies with their stupid feud. every jets-pats game is now about mangini-belechick.

Livinginthe past
09-10-2007, 06:56 PM
its obvious belechick is not fond of mangini. if you ask me, i say they are both acting like little babies with their stupid feud. every jets-pats game is now about mangini-belechick.

Jets/Patriots has been a feud for years - right back to the days of them totally undermining our SB against Green Bay by hiring Parcells away from us.

The favor was returned when BB left the Jets to come to the Patriots - overall, I think we come out ahead.

I honestly believe there isnt a great problem between BB and Mangini - but I believe the organisations hate each other with a passion and those two are stuck in the middle.

The Jets pulled in just about everyone we cut to 'have a look at them' when everyone knew exactly what they were really doing - trying to pump them for info on the week 1 game.

I believe BB was initially very pissed when Mangini picked that team to go to - all the fuss over handshakes is just media inflated crap.

fansince'76
09-10-2007, 07:23 PM
Agreed. If found guilty we should be seeing an astrick next to the 2001, 2003, 2004 Superbowls. What a shame.

I just keep thinking of all those children...

WTF? Melodrama, anyone?

touchdownward
09-10-2007, 07:46 PM
WTF? Melodrama, anyone?

:laughing:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/kieranmahon2000/HelenLovejoy.jpg
:freddy:

Preacher
09-11-2007, 02:21 AM
Were the Patriots cheating? They now say the same guy was removed in Green Bay for doing the same thing.

Can they, will they lose a draft pick over this? Is that enough?



If it is proved, does it explain how the Patriots could always play good with so-so players since Belicheck came?

Does this cast a shadow on the SB's?

(Please... NO SMACK.. I am wanting a serious discussion on this subject.)

Haiku_Dirtt
09-11-2007, 04:05 AM
The "Belichick Mystique" kinda reminds me of Merv Griffin. On camera you have the clean cut school kid game showing BS.

Off camera you have the slum lord, sweatshop owning Leona Helmsley.

That is the REAL Belichick.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 10:28 AM
Do any of you guys actually check the forum to see if the subject matter has been posted already?

This will be the 3rd one in the NFL forum and another was posted in the Pittsburgh forum (?).

Im sure the mods have better things to do than close/merge continuously.

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 10:57 AM
Do any of you guys actually check the forum to see if the subject matter has been posted already?

This will be the 3rd one in the NFL forum and another was posted in the Pittsburgh forum (?).

Im sure the mods have better things to do than close/merge continuously.agreed. alot of redundancy lately, although "hold your horses" isnt exactly the best title to tip off the subject matter.

onthebus36
09-11-2007, 11:07 AM
Here are some more details on what happened previously in Green Bay from the Milwaukee paper. I think this story adds a certain level of qualification to the Jets story. Unauthorized use of a camera does not necessarily equal cheating. Maybe the guy is just a jerk? He is from New England after all. (JOKE!)

Seriously, check out this story before you rush to judgement.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=659604

I'm not saying the Pats didn't cheat. I'm just saying the story that they cheated in Green Bay doesn't appear to be true.

Regarding the multiple posts, I fell into that trap too by missing the "Hold your horse" thread. Maybe the mods could change the thread title like they did for the multiple PAC Man and Mike Vick threads?

RoethlisBURGHer
09-11-2007, 11:10 AM
agreed. alot of redundancy lately, although "hold your horses" isnt exactly the best title to tip off the subject matter.

Yeah LITP...maybe you can elaborate on why you named tis thread "hold your horses"...you weren't playing the Colts or Broncos.

fansince'76
09-11-2007, 11:11 AM
OK folks - I renamed the thread. I probably should have done it earlier.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 11:43 AM
I am losing more and more respect for the Patriots every day.

PATRIOTS: YOU HAVE TOM BRADY - You didn't need to sign all of those receivers, you don't need to cheat even though you always try to, you don't need to play secret agent with the media... The team does so many unnecessary things that waste so much media attention it's really annoying...

If Belichick focused more on X's and O's instead of all this secrecy BS the Patriots could have four rings right now instead of three.

onthebus36
09-11-2007, 11:54 AM
I just got this from a coworker. Source is unconfirmed other than the site www.touchdown.org and it supposedly shows the Pat's cameraman in question. I'm not familiar with this site and it appears this picture is the only thing on the site.

http://www.touchdown.org/pats-camera.jpg

I take this with a grain of salt because A- I don't know for sure it's the same guy and B- there are always camera guys filming the sidelines but if it is the same guy, it sure raises some questions. It's pretty clear he's not filming the action and that the Jets D is on the field.

The plot thickens...

rbryan
09-11-2007, 02:08 PM
Of course the patsies cheat. Is anyone really all that surprised?? I've been telling everyone this for years. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Bellidick and the kraftmeister are going down, mark my words. Thier cronies at ESPN can't help them out of this one. (Although they are doing thier best to downplay this story) The word is out, a lot of people are starting to see that the Patsy's recent success was a little too good to be true.

This is just one small example of the under handed way the Patsies have done business.The real cheating hasn't been brought to light yet, but it's just a matter of time.

Preacher
09-11-2007, 02:13 PM
Of course the patsies cheat. Is anyone really all that surprised?? I've been telling everyone this for years. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Bellidick and the kraftmeister are going down, mark my words. Thier cronies at ESPN can't help them out of this one. (Although they are doing thier best to downplay this story) The word is out, a lot of people are starting to see that the Patsy's recent success was a little too good to be true.

This is just one small example of the under handed way the Patsies have done business.The real cheating hasn't been brought to light yet, but it's just a matter of time.

As much as I would love to agree with you...

I really doubt they are "going down." My guess is that they push everything to the edge, and once in a while, push over it. That is typical NFL. Kinda like when the Steelers "Lost" the scouting tapes they were supposed to pass on to other teams in the 70's so they could protect a couple draft choices a bit later in the draft.

__________________________________


And yes LITP... I did check, and as I saw NOTHING referring to the Patriots, cheating, or cameramen... I started the thread.

rbryan
09-11-2007, 02:16 PM
Two months ago everyone said Michael Vick was going to be playing opening day too. The NY media is all over this. Mark my words Preacher, heads are gonna roll in Patsyville.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 02:18 PM
They will be probably lose a 6th round pick at the most... Lol I can't see them "Going down" either although they should.

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 03:34 PM
I am surprised to see Tomlin jump into this, but here we go:

New Steelers coach Mike Tomlin did not accuse New England of cheating, but said the rumors have been around and "where there is smoke, there's fire.''

Tomlin, at his press conference today, responded to the allegations that the Patriots have used cameras illegally to focus on opposing coaches along the sideline in order to steal their signals.

"In terms of confirming it, it's never been confirmed in any instances to my knowledge," Tomlin said. "But usually, where there is smoke, there's fire. Those rumors are founded on something. So it's not totally shocking, no."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07254/816573-66.stm

Was unaware Tomlin has even had significant dealings with the Pats. Maybe as another young HC Tomlin does not like the way Chick has treated ManGenius?

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 03:40 PM
Tomlin has impressed me every step of the way since taking that DC job in Minnesota last year, and that quote only furthers my respect for him. Greatly improves that Vikings squad, has run the Steelers to perfection so far, he says all the right things and now this... The guy is just so strong and never backs down, yet he doesn't cause trouble where it isn't needed. What a coach. Anyone still disappointed that Grimm or Wiz didn't get the job?

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 03:45 PM
I am surprised to see Tomlin jump into this, but here we go:

New Steelers coach Mike Tomlin did not accuse New England of cheating, but said the rumors have been around and "where there is smoke, there's fire.''

Tomlin, at his press conference today, responded to the allegations that the Patriots have used cameras illegally to focus on opposing coaches along the sideline in order to steal their signals.

"In terms of confirming it, it's never been confirmed in any instances to my knowledge," Tomlin said. "But usually, where there is smoke, there's fire. Those rumors are founded on something. So it's not totally shocking, no."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07254/816573-66.stm

Was unaware Tomlin has even had significant dealings with the Pats. Maybe as another young HC Tomlin does not like the way Chick has treated ManGenius?

What he probably didn't like was the Patriots exposing his one dimensional D on MNF in football - that was the week that Minny were exposed as pretenders, even in the NFC.

My next question is, does Tomlin read SF?

And if so, is he really Tony Hipchest?

Same comment...only a seperated by a few hours....and i've noted how TH will back his guy to the hilt everytime...hmmmm.....

What say you, SteelersFever?

Do we have the Pittsburgh Steelers HC posting on our forum?

fansince'76
09-11-2007, 03:47 PM
What he probably didn't like was the Patriots exposing his one dimensional D on MNF in football - that was the week that Minny were exposed as pretenders, even in the NFC.

My next question is, does Tomlin read SF?

And if so, is he really Tony Hipchest?

Same comment...only a seperated by a few hours....and i've noted how TH will back his guy to the hilt everytime...hmmmm.....

What say you, SteelersFever?

Do we have the Pittsburgh Steelers HC posting on our forum?

He was asked about it in his presser, he answered the question. Sorry you didn't like his answer.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 03:48 PM
Yeah LITP...maybe you can elaborate on why you named tis thread "hold your horses"...you weren't playing the Colts or Broncos.

I didn't actually start the thread so I had no power of what the title was.

You let me know if you need any further elaboration on that explanation. :wink02:

Jman
09-11-2007, 03:48 PM
"But usually, where there is smoke, there's fire. Those rumors are founded on something. So it's not totally shocking, no."[/I]

Haha, yes where there's smoke...there's fire (Jeremiah 20:9).

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 03:48 PM
The Patriots defender has returned!!! Sometimes I think LITP would defend the Patriots longer than Robert Kraft would... Even the owner of the team knows when he is wrong... =p

HometownGal
09-11-2007, 03:52 PM
What say you, SteelersFever?

Do we have the Pittsburgh Steelers HC posting on our forum?

No, but we do have Belichick, Jr. posting here. :flap:

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 03:53 PM
He was asked about it in his presser, he answered the question. Sorry you didn't like his answer.

Hey, I really don't mind at all that he answered.

Its interesting to have a guy speak his mind, so many coaches follow the non-commital 'no comment' line (like BB himself).

Its just that, it seems to me, a pretty amateur move - why he'd want to stick his nose in something that really doesnt concern him before the facts become evident is a puzzle.

I doubt we'll need much in the way of 'bulletin board material' come week 14, but its right there if we want it.

Still the NFl is based on great rivalries - maybe Tomlin is already bored of beating up on Cleveland. :chuckle:

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 03:55 PM
The issue doesn't concern him? A team cheating, which your "Patriots", as they like to call themselves, did, concerns everyone in the league.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 04:05 PM
The issue doesn't concern him? A team cheating, which your "Patriots", as they like to call themselves, did, concerns everyone in the league.

Patriots..as they like to call themselves?

What does that mean?

Thats the name of the franchise.

I'll bet you that that that type of comment is a real rarity, and thats for a reason - seems that some of the newer guys in the league feel the need to try and weasel their way into the national spotlight.

Just the same as Childress did with his ill-advised comments about Belichicks phone call to him regarding PS players - funny thing is he back pedalled on that one a day or two later.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Tomlin do the same - still, the young guys have to learn somehow right?

Oh, and I think ill wait until the investigation comes to a conclusion before i'll label them guilty of anything - rumor and hearsay is the order of the day so far.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 04:11 PM
It's pretty obvious that something happened so don't even try and lay down the 'Innocent until proven guilty' card... It's a little old...

Also, with that many "young coaches" taking shots at Belichick is it really just trying to make headlines? I think not. Generally when something comes up more than few times there is more than a little substance to it.

'The Patriots' may be what the franchise is called now, yes... But I think a name like 'The Benedicts' is much more fitting.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 04:15 PM
It's pretty obvious that something happened so don't even try and lay down the 'Innocent until proven guilty' card... It's a little old....

Yeah, as old as the legal system itself, you might say.

Probably a reason why it plays such a fundamental part in, as we like to call it, justice.

Also, with that many "Young coaches" taking shots at Belichick is it really just trying to make headlines? I think not. Generally when something comes up more than few times there is more than a little substance to it..

You think not?

Well, ok then - thats that settled then.

No-one disputes that BB made the phonecall, but for Childress to blurt it out to the media is pretty poor form (I think).

The Patriots may be what the franchise is called yes... But I think a name like The Benedicts is more fitting.

Thats...ummmm..catchy.

MACH1
09-11-2007, 04:17 PM
Your not going to find any pity for the all high and mighty patsies here. Things don't keep resurfacing over the years if there's not a grain of truth to it.
Wheres theres smoke theres usually fire. Right:chuckle:

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 04:17 PM
Yeah, as old as the legal system itself, you might say.

Probably a reason why it plays such a fundamental part in, as we like to call it, justice.



You think not?

Well, ok then - thats that settled then.

No-one disputes that BB made the phonecall, but for Childress to blurt it out to the media is pretty poor form I think.



Thats...ummmm..catchy.

Good to see you put some thought into your response... :yawn:... Try again...

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 04:29 PM
just seen ladanian tomlinson on espn. they brought it up about the cheaters. l t's responce....." i'm not suprised".....ESPN is on this ,almost as much as they were on vick scandal....:toofunny: there already focusing on the punishment the patty's will recieve....:cheer:

louisvillecards
09-11-2007, 04:43 PM
That would explain why they seemed to know the steelers plays every time we played them.Whats up with Mr Hoodie he refuses to shake hands when he gets beat ,he acts like a jerk.I am pretty sure he would kill his first born for a super bowl.

12+88=6
09-11-2007, 04:48 PM
if you think that's bad try this one.

the couple we stayed with for my cousin's wedding back in 2001 lives in york PA. the wife is going deaf, so she is REAL good at reading lips. somehow, i don't recall how, the baltimore ravens found out about her. so they hired her to sit up in the box seats and watch the other teams coaches on tv and then radio down to the ravens sidelines if she was able to make out what they were saying. i think they had their own cameras that they used.

they even gave her free tickets to home games, and she'd give them to friends. i know this for sure b/c she had the tickets on her kitchen table. good seats to.

Counselor
09-11-2007, 04:50 PM
just seen ladanian tomlinson on espn. they brought it up about the cheaters. l t's responce....." i'm not suprised".....ESPN is on this ,almost as much as they were on vick scandal....:toofunny: there already focusing on the punishment the patty's will recieve....:cheer:

Seems like no one is surprised.

dhosmer
09-11-2007, 04:56 PM
if you think that's bad try this one.

the couple we stayed with for my cousin's wedding back in 2001 lives in york PA. the wife is going deaf, so she is REAL good at reading lips. somehow, i don't recall how, the baltimore ravens found out about her. so they hired her to sit up in the box seats and watch the other teams coaches on tv and then radio down to the ravens sidelines if she was able to make out what they were saying. i think they had their own cameras that they used.

they even gave her free tickets to home games, and she'd give them to friends. i know this for sure b/c she had the tickets on her kitchen table. good seats to.

I'm amazed you figured all that out by seeing a pair of good tickets on a kitchen table.

Preacher
09-11-2007, 04:59 PM
I'm amazed you figured all that out by seeing a pair of good tickets on a kitchen table.

I think the gist of that post was that the tickets were a piece of evidence that what she was saying was valid...

Not the other way around.

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 05:08 PM
just seen ladanian tomlinson on espn. they brought it up about the cheaters. l t's responce....." i'm not suprised".....ESPN is on this ,almost as much as they were on vick scandal....:toofunny: there already focusing on the punishment the patty's will recieve....:cheer:

And of course LT plays them this Sunday Night after going on record he thought the Pats were pond scum when they danced around after beating the Chargers in San Diego last January. :sofunny:

Lucky for Chick he didn't pull this stuff in the Eastern District of Virginia.

12+88=6
09-11-2007, 05:09 PM
I'm amazed you figured all that out by seeing a pair of good tickets on a kitchen table.

the tickets are what started the conversation. i saw them and asked how she got them. her reply was "i work for the ravens" so i asked what she did and that's when she told me everything. it may sound like a lie to you but it's the truth. i couldn't believe it myself.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 05:11 PM
That's a believeable story... Maybe Billick called Belichick for advice.. Or wait... Would that have been Ray Ray? I'm confused... -_-

Preacher
09-11-2007, 05:14 PM
That's a believeable story... Maybe Billick called Belichick for advice.. Or wait... Would that have been Ray Ray? I'm confused... -_-

No, Ray would have been called if a stabbing was needed.

12+88=6
09-11-2007, 05:15 PM
That's a believeable story... Maybe Billick called Belichick for advice.. Or wait... Would that have been Ray Ray? I'm confused... -_-

well bolth organizations are shady and underhanded for sure.

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 05:18 PM
Sometimes to drive the ratings you need two great teams - one a good guy/white hat team to play a bad guy/black hat team

Peyton-Dungy v. Bill ("The Cheater") Belichick seems to fit the bill :smile:

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 05:20 PM
I'm glad you brought that up ATL, the Colts are really looking more and more like the class of the NFL this year between the HGH, cheating, punching media, shuning opponents when getting beat that the Patsie pansies have been doing...

onthebus36
09-11-2007, 06:02 PM
Here's the latest: (If someone already posted I apologize but I didn't see it)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3014677

Sources: Goodell determines Pats broke rules by taping Jets' signals
By Chris Mortensen
ESPN.com

Updated: September 11, 2007, 5:44 PM ET

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has determined that the New England Patriots violated league rules Sunday when they videotaped defensive signals by the New York Jets' coaches, league sources have told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

NFL security officials confiscated a camera and videotape from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella on the New England sidelines when it was suspected he was recording the Jets' defensive signals. Sources say the visual evidence confirmed the suspicion.

Goodell is considering severe sanctions, including the possibility of docking the Patriots "multiple draft picks" because it is the competitive violation in the wake of a stern warning to all teams since he became commissioner, the sources said. The Patriots have been suspected in previous incidents.

The Patriots will be allowed an opportunity to present their case by Friday, sources said, most likely via the telephone.

The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during Sunday's game, sources said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game.

Goodell is expected to have a decision no later than Friday but that is not set in stone.

The league refused comment but did confirm Monday that they were reviewing a possible violation by the Patriots.

Chris Mortensen covers the NFL for ESPN.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:06 PM
BUSTED!!!!:busted::busted::busted::busted::busted: it's all over espn !!!! lmao...they said sanctions WILL be handed out !!!!

what say you now , fan of cheaters ??? hey you may want to consider that as your screen name....:thumbsup:

SteelFist
09-11-2007, 06:10 PM
Can someone please explain to me what good would the spying have done for the Patriots this past Sunday anyway? What, record the Jets in the 1st half to help them out in the 2nd half? Don't you have to know what the signals mean?

I would imagine Mangini (And every coach for that matter) has changed his signals from last season due to players coming and going in free agency.

BozMan
09-11-2007, 06:13 PM
Talk about embarrassing. I can't wait to see Belichick try to explain this one.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:13 PM
Can someone please explain to me what good would the spying have done for the Patriots this past Sunday anyway? What, record the Jets in the 1st half to help them out in the 2nd half? Don't you have to know what the signals mean?

I would imagine Mangini (And every coach for that matter) has changed his signals from last season due to players coming and going in free agency.

well.....you look at the signal,then you look at what the defense did on the field ....coverage,blitz etc....

BozMan
09-11-2007, 06:16 PM
Poor Bill Simmons. I wonder if he is still "ready to sit back and watch the Patriot juggernaut"? LOL. The guy does write funny and interesting columns, but his NE homerism gets annoying (but at least he admits it).

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 06:18 PM
LITP, where are you?

SteelFist
09-11-2007, 06:19 PM
well.....you look at the signal,then you look at what the defense did on the field ....coverage,blitz etc....

It makes me think...you've got to be hard pressed to do something like that. I mean they've already got Brady, Randy Moss, Stallworth.....a very solid defense......why would they do something like that?? :confused:

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:21 PM
here's my recommended punishment....

1 patriots forfiet to the jets
2 chik suspended for 4 games and a $ 100,000 fine
3 loose 1st rd pick in 08.

BozMan
09-11-2007, 06:25 PM
It makes me think...you've got to be hard pressed to do something like that. I mean they've already got Brady, Randy Moss, Stallworth.....a very solid defense......why would they do something like that?? :confused:

There's a good article on MSNBC.com by Bob Cook that offers up a good theory for this. I can't link to it, so here's a quote:

The answer: because Belichick?s attitude crosses the line from wanting to do everything possible to win to demanding to do anything possible to win. Belichick?s boorish behavior means the videotape accusation, if it sticks, isn?t a sign of some crafty mind engaging in a little gamesmanship. It?s a sign of an obsessed mind crossing the line from being a poor sport to being poor for his sport.

SteelFist
09-11-2007, 06:26 PM
No seriously.....It makes you wonder. Remember the first Championship game we lost to the Patriots ('01 season), and Ward was complaining about how predictable we were and how their defense was calling out our offensive plays before the snap? He said that it seemed like they new everything we were doing. I thought they were just great film studiers.

MACH1
09-11-2007, 06:26 PM
here's my recommended punishment....

1 patriots forfiet to the jets
2 chik suspended for 4 games and a $ 100,000 fine
3 loose 1st rd pick in 08.

Sounds good to me.
It will be interesting to see if their still the team to beat without cheating.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:26 PM
It makes me think...you've got to be hard pressed to do something like that. I mean they've already got Brady, Randy Moss, Stallworth.....a very solid defense......why would they do something like that?? :confused:

well its not the first time. they've been known to be cheaters for years. they've been known to pick up a former player from an up and coming opponent....pump him for info...then cut them after the game (same thing the ratbirds did with st pierre)....belichik is a freakin cheatin dirtbag !!!!!

fansince'76
09-11-2007, 06:27 PM
It makes me think...you've got to be hard pressed to do something like that. I mean they've already got Brady, Randy Moss, Stallworth.....a very solid defense......why would they do something like that?? :confused:

I hear you Steelfist - what I don't get is why would they do it against obviously inferior competition? Namely, the Jets, and the Packers last year. I could understand it more if it were the Colts or Chargers.

SteelFist
09-11-2007, 06:27 PM
There's a good article on MSNBC.com by Bob Cook that offers up a good theory for this. I can't link to it, so here's a quote:

Thanks!

SteelerFanInCA
09-11-2007, 06:28 PM
:dang::dang::dang:

onthebus36
09-11-2007, 06:29 PM
well.....you look at the signal,then you look at what the defense did on the field ....coverage,blitz etc....

And then radio it to the QB for him to audible, or not, at the line of scrimmage.

Some of the Jets players were complaining that Brady was making audibles to react to defenses they were about to shift into.

HometownGal
09-11-2007, 06:29 PM
http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/image2/bill-clinton-13.jpg

"I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN!"

http://images.sportsnetwork.com/football/nfl/allsport/patriots/belichick_bill4.jpg

"I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT!!"

Cheaters? Same first name? Go figure. :hunch:

SteelFist
09-11-2007, 06:29 PM
I hear you Steelfist - what I don't get is why would they do it against obviously inferior competition? Namely, the Jets, and the Packers last year. I could understand it more if it were the Colts or Chargers.

But see, I guess that would mean that we would never know if they in fact did use similar methods against the Colts, Bolts and even the Jets last season. Things that make you go hmmm.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:30 PM
The answer: because Belichick?s attitude crosses the line from wanting to do everything possible to win to demanding to do anything possible to win. Belichick?s boorish behavior means the videotape accusation, if it sticks, isn?t a sign of some crafty mind engaging in a little gamesmanship. It?s a sign of an obsessed mind crossing the line from being a poor sport to being poor for his sport.

that sums it up nicely.....genius my ass !!!

BozMan
09-11-2007, 06:31 PM
Wow, this is even on Drudge Report.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 06:31 PM
I hear you Steelfist - what I don't get is why would they do it against obviously inferior competition? Namely, the Jets, and the Packers last year. I could understand it more if it were the Colts or Chargers.

You aren't the only one confused.

I've read an interview with a ex-cameraman and he says everybody steals signals to some extent - its just that the Patriots will be the first to actually get caught.

If they do, and get docked draft picks they'll only have themselves to blame.

What makes this seem so unreal is that the cameraman is so obvious - its isn't a guy hidden in the stands with a a telescopic lens - he's right there metres from the Jets bench.

I'll wait until friday to see what exactly happens - Goodell has been super tough on anything he considers against the ehtics of the game so i expect something heavy.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:33 PM
I hear you Steelfist - what I don't get is why would they do it against obviously inferior competition? Namely, the Jets, and the Packers last year. I could understand it more if it were the Colts or Chargers.they just never got snagged against the better teams.....i'd say this tactic isn't very new for them.....

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 06:33 PM
Oh, so now it's ok to do it? Everyone does it? The first to get caught? Give me a break. Your team is a bunch of cheating, lying jerks.

MACH1
09-11-2007, 06:34 PM
Goodell should just ban them from the post season. :sofunny:

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 06:34 PM
They cheat? :huh:

What Harrison did, he did on his own to try and get back to the team. :rolleyes:

When the shit hit the fan the Patriots didn't bias the investigation at all - he got caught and will be punished. :busted:

Nothing will come of this latest episode int he Jets 'dirty tricks' campaign. :chuckle:

To suggest that the Patriots would hire someone to do something that might cost them a game and/or draft picks - and do it using the same camera man who got 'busted' the first time in GreenBay - well theres always someone out there willing to sell you a bridge!

:toofunny:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/pitt2074.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/pitt7010.jpg

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 06:34 PM
Oh, so now it's ok to do it? Everyone does it? The first to get caught? Give me a break. Your team is a bunch of cheating, lying jerks.


Boy, you sound really angry.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 06:35 PM
:toofunny:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/pitt2074.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/pitt7010.jpg

Ok, dammit.

How much you want for 'em? :toofunny:

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:36 PM
[QUOTE=Livinginthe past;292293]You aren't the only one confused.

its just that the Patriots will be the first to actually get caught.

QUOTE]
hmmmmm....all the sudden that PACKER accusation doesn't seem so .....far fetched !!!!!:busted::busted:

SteelFist
09-11-2007, 06:37 PM
You aren't the only one confused.


What makes this seem so unreal is that the cameraman is so obvious - its isn't a guy hidden in the stands with a a telescopic lens - he's right there metres from the Jets bench.

I have a canon 20D with a 20-300m zoom lense and they wouldn't allow me into the stadium with that camera. I was only allowed with my point & shoot. So maybe thats the only way they could get shots worth seeing.

Edman
09-11-2007, 06:37 PM
Well, well. We all know the Pats are a tough team, but this is shady. I guess winning fairly isn't enough for bubbachick.

Dock them multiple draft picks. Forfeiting the game wouldn't do much, because the Jets did little to win the game.

onthebus36
09-11-2007, 06:38 PM
they just never got snagged against the better teams.....i'd say this tactic isn't very new for them.....

According to SI, that's exactly right.

"The Patriots' history in matters dealing with video-taped subterfuge for purposes of gaining a competitive edge is likely to increase the severity of any penalty handed down by Goodell. Last year New England was reportedly the impetus of a sternly written memo from the league office to all teams, reminding them that it was illegal for any club official to bring a video recording device into the press box, video box or onto the field for the purposes of taping an opponent's signals or play-calling gestures from the sideline."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/09/11/pats.spy/index.html

Clearly, they've been involved in shadiness before and have been warned before.

I'd hit them with draft picks and do something immediate. A forfeit to a playoff contender is a blow that would get immediate attention.

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 06:38 PM
Poor Bill Simmons. I wonder if he is still "ready to sit back and watch the Patriot juggernaut"? LOL. The guy does write funny and interesting columns, but his NE homerism gets annoying (but at least he admits it).

As you said, Simmons is actually fairly honest about rooting for the Sawx and Pats no matter what changes - Simmons admits the Red Sox have turned into a combination of what he always hated about the Yankees (just spend your way through your mistakes) and other teams with frontrunning newbie fans who root for a team just because it is winning.

He will rationalize the Pats cheating and say who cares if that is what it takes to win it all - if the Pats signed Osama bin Laden as a new coach Simmons would applaud bringing a new approach to the team.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 06:40 PM
I am very angry. Your team cheats. They better lose more than a few draft picks. What a joke. Some dynasty, the team’s whole playbook was probably stolen from other teams... They don't deserve to win anything. They should lose that win against the Jets.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:41 PM
no freakin wonder brady had all day to throw the damn ball !!! the scumbags new when and where every blitz was comming from!!!

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:43 PM
the little bit of respect i had for brady and chik as player and coach.....HISTORY !!!!

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 06:44 PM
My punishment:

Belichick suspended

Lose both first round picks next year to the Jets

Take a salary cap hit

Lose win against the Jets

---------------------------------------

Harsh? No, that is going easy. A standard needs to be set against cheating in this league and I have faith Goodell will set it.

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 06:44 PM
Oh, so now it's ok to do it? Everyone does it? The first to get caught? Give me a break. Your team is a bunch of cheating, lying jerks.

It's only dogs - Vick supporters

Its only filming signals - Pats Supporters

BozMan
09-11-2007, 06:46 PM
Does anyone else think the forfeiture of just one draft pick is not harsh enough? How about ALL of their draft picks and a 4-game suspension of the head coach? That ought to send the right message.

stillers4me
09-11-2007, 06:47 PM
And the football world accused US of cheating??????????????????????

And that our SB was tainted???????????????

Oh I'm mad......just really really mad.

Any you know......you just KNOW that that smug pretty boy QB knew all about it.

This is just disgusting.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:47 PM
Does anyone else think the forfeiture of just one draft pick is not harsh enough? How about ALL of their draft picks and a 4-game suspension of the head coach? That ought to send the right message.
I DOUBT IF THEY'LL EVEN LOOSE 1 1ST PICK !!!

SteelerFanInCA
09-11-2007, 06:48 PM
Does anyone else think the forfeiture of just one draft pick is not harsh enough? How about ALL of their draft picks and a 4-game suspension of the head coach? That ought to send the right message.

BozMan for next commisioner. :tt02:

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 06:48 PM
It's only dogs - Vick supporters

Its only filming signals - Pats Supporters

Exactley. LITP was all "innocent until proven otherwise! They didn't cheat, Harrison did not the beloved Pats!!"

The Patriots are the worst franchise in the league and they are now being bashed EVERYWHERE. Their "dynasty" will forever have this black cloud over it's head. How many SB's did they win while cheating?

It feels good. The Patriots as I have predicted before the season started have bombed. Wins and losses no longer matter. The team has bombed worse and has lost more respect by doing this than going 0 - 16.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:49 PM
Hey, I really don't mind at all that he answered.

Its interesting to have a guy speak his mind, so many coaches follow the non-commital 'no comment' line (like BB himself).

Its just that, it seems to me, a pretty amateur move - why he'd want to stick his nose in something that really doesnt concern him before the facts become evident is a puzzle.

I doubt we'll need much in the way of 'bulletin board material' come week 14, but its right there if we want it.

Still the NFl is based on great rivalries - maybe Tomlin is already bored of beating up on Cleveland. :chuckle:
how's that bulletin board material lookin now???:toofunny:

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 06:49 PM
Does anyone else think the forfeiture of just one draft pick is not harsh enough? How about ALL of their draft picks and a 4-game suspension of the head coach? That ought to send the right message.

Wilbon said on PTI that since they apparently are repeat offenders a #3 and #5 pick being forfeited should be about right - I agree with Wilbon

Kornheiser said have them forfeit a #7 (which presumably will preclude trading for Charlie Frye from the Seahawks)

Losing draft picks is where the league usually hits you

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:50 PM
Exactley. LITP was all "innocent until proven otherwise! They didn't cheat, Harrison did not the beloved Pats!!"

The Patriots are the worst franchise in the league and they are now being bashed EVERYWHERE. Their "dynasty" will forever have this black cloud over it's head. How many SB's did they win while cheating?

It feels good. The Patriots as I have predicted before the season started have bombed. Wins and losses no longer matter. The team has bombed worse and has lost more respect by doing this than going 0 - 16.yup....ranks right up there with barry bonds records....:thumbsup:

stillers4me
09-11-2007, 06:52 PM
I also think that any member of this team including Marsha Brady, should be ineligable for the HOF.....EVER. He's no longer on on the "elite" list as far as I'm concerned.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 06:53 PM
It seems that the Patriots have lost all respect world wide... Go check out other boards! They are getting destoryed most places worse than here!

I wonder where Living in The Past went to?

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:53 PM
I also think that any member of this team including Marsha Brady, should be ineligable for the HOF.....EVER. He's no longer on on the "elite" list as far as I'm concerned.i agree....sure would be easy throwing against a D when you know where the pressure and coverage will be....elite cheater maybe...:coffee:

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 06:53 PM
no freakin wonder brady had all day to throw the damn ball !!! the scumbags new when and where every blitz was comming from!!!and here i always just thought brady and belichick were omnipotent. :rolleyes:

put it this way... remember how the patriots utterly embarrased the packers last year? how bout when they were able to dissect the vikings with the passing game?

you know them miracle "halftime adjustments" the team ALWAYS seems to make?

look at bradys record when leading at halftime. its something like 62-2.

alot of coaching and picking up blitzes or predicting blitzes, or anticipating defenses is guesswork and playing the odds. but just like in blackjack, if youre beating the house all the time youre eventually gonna get thrown out of the casino on your ass.

the reasons the pats havent dominated strong teams with this tactic like they have inferior teams is because 11 guys still gotta go out there and execute. its like when steelers would run the ball with jerome, teams knew it was coming, and we were still able to come out on top.

even a small edge over a superior team is an edge the patriots will gladly take. the conspiracy theories throughout their "dynasty" definitely had some merit behind them.

this is strike 2 against the pats. im sure an example will be made of them just like it has been with pac man and henry.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:54 PM
It seems that the Patriots have lost all respect world wide... Go check out other boards! They are getting destoryed most places worse than here!

I wonder where Living in The Past went to?hopefully tying a noose....:thumbsup:

stillers4me
09-11-2007, 06:57 PM
I really did enjoy them stomping on the Bungles last year, though. :flap:

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 06:57 PM
Exactley. LITP was all "innocent until proven otherwise! They didn't cheat, Harrison did not the beloved Pats!!"

The Patriots are the worst franchise in the league and they are now being bashed EVERYWHERE. Their "dynasty" will forever have this black cloud over it's head. How many SB's did they win while cheating?

It feels good. The Patriots as I have predicted before the season started have bombed. Wins and losses no longer matter. The team has bombed worse and has lost more respect by doing this than going 0 - 16.

Unfortunately, it is only a crime if you get caught - this too will pass

Stealing signals has a long tradition (the 1951 Giants had someone in the Polo Grounds scoreboard stealing the pitching signals)

What it does do is give everyone a very talented villain (Chick) to root against - like all other teams the Pats are in it for the rings, not to be loved. The Pats apparently just draw the line on what constitutes a competitive edge at a different point.

The best part for me will be watching Belichick, who treats the media like dirt, have to squirm his way through his explanation.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 06:58 PM
Even the Benglas haven't stooped this low. That victory was probably fake too.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 06:59 PM
Unfortunately, it is only a crime if you get caught - this too will pass

Stealing signals has a long tradition (the 1951 Giants had someone in the Polo Grounds scoreboard stealing the pitching signals)

What it does do is give everyone a very talented villain (Chick) to root against - like all other teams the Pats are in it for the rings, not to be loved. The Pats apparently just draw the line on what constitutes a competitive edge at a different point.

The best part for me will be watching Belichick, who treats the media like dirt, have to squirm his way through his explanation.oh absolutely...the whole team ,especially brady, will be grilled !!!!:sofunny:

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 07:00 PM
Unfortunately, it is only a crime if you get caught - this too will pass

Stealing signals has a long tradition (the 1951 Giants had someone in the Polo Grounds scoreboard stealing the pitching signals)

What it does do is give everyone a very talented villain (Chick) to root against - like all other teams the Pats are in it for the rings, not to be loved. The Pats apparently just draw the line on what constitutes a competitive edge at a different point.

The best part for me will be watching Belichick, who treats the media like dirt, have to squirm his way through his explanation.

Taking it into memory and account with your mind and recording it on camera make all the diffrence in the world. it's like having a robot for a linemen out there.

Edman
09-11-2007, 07:02 PM
I'm so upset and outraged. What a bunch of cheating p****s. This isn't the First time either!

Even if the league manages to make the punishment easy on them, the Pats' already questionable image is tarnished. Belichick doesn't respect his competition when he loses, he lies on injury reports, and overall has been a classless scumbag. F the Patriots.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 07:03 PM
whose got links to cheater boards ???:tt02:

stillers4me
09-11-2007, 07:03 PM
Winning championships by cheating is not to cool, either.

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 07:03 PM
fines, draft picks, and suspensions? possibly all 3 together. adam schefter makes a good point that teams have lost championships and men have lost jobs (and their livelyhoods) thanks to these antics.

Hines0wnz
09-11-2007, 07:04 PM
I'm not really here to gloat (:wink02:) but this just proves the poor sports and arrogance of the NE franchise. It isnt enough to win 3 SBs in the last 5 season is it? It isnt enough to be perennial favorites to get to the SB is it? It is difficult for me to believe that NE was so desperate for an edge against GB, NYJ and who knows what other teams and be so bold as to stick a cameraman on the sidelines to steal signals. No wonder Belichek was so snotty to the media, he was probably carrying all that guilt and didnt want to have a Jim Mora breakdown in front of the world. Well, now the gig is up and the punishment for such brash behavior should be severe but fair. We all, as fans, wanted to move on from the horrible PR the NFL has had this off season but here we go again. After it is all said and done, after Mr Goodell hands down his decision and we are ready to watch this weekend's and the remaining games this season, one question will remain and it will not be answered, why? Is this why brash behavior is "unwelcome" in NE? Is this why they have a "family atmosphere" in the locker room? Was this the "dirty little secret" that no one in the organization wanted to speak about for fear of tarnishing and embarrassing one of the great franchise runs in NFL history? Shame on you NE, not because of what you did but because you didn't have to do it in the first place.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 07:04 PM
Three Super Bowls now that could have and maybe should have been won by somebody else... Wow, what a story... This team is a literal joke.

stillers4me
09-11-2007, 07:05 PM
I'd rather see Chad Johnson in the Hall of Fame than ever see see Tom Brady there.






Did I really just say that?????????????

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 07:05 PM
fines, draft picks, and suspensions? possibly all 3 together. adam schefter makes a good point that teams have lost championships and men have lost jobs (and their livelyhoods) thanks to these antics.oh i'd love to see "chik" bounced outta the league !!!

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 07:06 PM
Looks like the fans of the Patriots are no diffrent than the team. Cowards.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 07:08 PM
I'm not really here to gloat (:wink02:).lmao ...i sure as hell am !!!! screw the cheaters and there arrogant,pompous, english fans......i mean new england fans...:wink02:

stillers4me
09-11-2007, 07:09 PM
Who do they play this weekend??

I can hear the booing already........

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 07:10 PM
I hope Goodell just _____ them. I can't believe I am posting this many short posts but I am so PO'd. This is a disgrace to the whole league.

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 07:11 PM
Wilbon said on PTI that since they apparently are repeat offenders a #3 and #5 pick being forfeited should be about right - I agree with Wilbon

Kornheiser said have them forfeit a #7 (which presumably will preclude trading for Charlie Frye from the Seahawks)

Losing draft picks is where the league usually hits youthat would be a nice gesture that would send a message to the rest of the league, but i think it would be something the pats would laugh at. they only have 2 draft picks making the team from this past class. losing their #2 pick from the year before (c. jackson) has actually helped the team.

given their willingness to cheat to win gives them a competitive edge in signing free agents, and circumvents any loss of draftpicks, i hope the penalty is much more severe.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 07:12 PM
lol WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH THEY ARE PAYING PEOPLE? Randy could be getting $$ under the table.

HometownGal
09-11-2007, 07:13 PM
Who do they play this weekend??

I can hear the booing already........

They're at home against San Diego, I believe.

I am outraged, quite honestly.

Hines0wnz
09-11-2007, 07:13 PM
They're at home against San Diego, I believe.

I am outraged, quite honestly.

Yep, rematch.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:17 PM
I see the lynch mob is out in full effect :toofunny:

If, and when, the punishment gets handed down - the Patriots will take it on the chin and move on.

I always realised there was an under current of resentment toward the Patriots - understandable given recent history - but this has been a real lightening rod.

People sound so....angry....I mean really angry.

So thats fine, Shutdown24 - you want to keep venting by calling me personally a coward for not answering every retarded two sentence rant you make - then fine - most of 'em got he response they deserved ie none.

We'll see how bad the damage is friday, I guess - I doubt they'll award the Championships to the Steelers of 2001 and 2004 in retrospect, though...but you can always pray....that'd make you a Dynasty again..right :wink02:

ps Im still looking forward to the San diego game :chuckle:

HometownGal
09-11-2007, 07:17 PM
For those feeling a little frisky, here are links to the two most arrogant Pats fans' BB's. I joined Pats Planet a few years back but never posted.

http://www.patriotsplanet.net/

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/forumdisplay.php?f=10

Look at the "Active Members" on both boards right now - LMAO!!!! :toofunny:

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 07:19 PM
that would be a nice gesture that would send a message to the rest of the league, but i think it would be something the pats would laugh at. they only have 2 draft picks making the team from this past class. losing their #2 pick from the year before (c. jackson) has actually helped the team.

given their willingness to cheat to win gives them a competitive edge in signing free agents, and circumvents any loss of draftpicks, i hope the penalty is much more severe.

Well a fine won't work. If you chop their cap by a million for a year they can just get someone to defer compensation. And I don't think Goodell has the juice to suspend Belichick for any games, although since NFL head coaches are control freaks he has no plausible deniability on this. (Hopefully someone will say players get suspended for bad off the field conduct - why not suspend coaches for bad on the field conduct? - if Gene Upshaw has not gone mute since this summer maybe he should raise the issue)

IMO the sanction will be losing 1 or 2 mid-range draft choices

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 07:22 PM
That the best the almighty Patriot defender could come up with???

Ya I am going to call you out. You post until the proof comes out and then your gone.

You went from High and mighty on this thread - to conservative - to making up excuses. You really take after your franchise and despite what your english mind tells you, that is no longer a compliment.

I don't back down. When I am wrong, though, I admit it. It's ashame you can't do the same. Schefter is always right, you should be the one praying.

There isn't smoke anymore, it's a full out forest fire.

Hines0wnz
09-11-2007, 07:24 PM
" Belichick's intoxicating coaching blazon pulls you in like a magnetic force-field as much as his absolutist, anti-media and curmudgeonly nature pushes you away. He remains perhaps the most unique coaching figure in all of sports with the personality of a recently Maced grizzly bear and a coaching IQ better than Vince Lombardi's or Paul Brown's."
? Mike Freeman, CBSSportsLine.com, July 30

[B]Wow.

"I think the main reason for any success that we have is attributable to the players who go out there and make the plays that enable us to win. Without good football players, players who play well and who play in tough situations, and being consistent, you can't win in this league. So I give the credit to whatever games we've won, whatever success we've had, to the players that have gone out there and made those plays to enable the team to be successful."
- BB, December 27
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/jpriode73/o_rly.jpg

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:25 PM
That the best the almighty Patriot defender could come up with???

Ya I am going to call you out. You post until the proof comes out and then your gone.

You went from High and mighty on this thread - to conseravtive - to making up excuses. You really take after your franchise and despite what your english mind tells you, that is no longer a compliment.

I don't back down. When I am wrong, though, I admit it. It's ashame you can't do the same. Schefter is always right, you should be the one praying.

Praying?

Last time I looked this wans't a matter of life and death...though maybe to some it is.

The fact is, I dont have to come up with anything - sure i'll defend them - they're my team - when the judgement comes i'll consider a different tack.


I see we are in the BF now....not a real surprise I suppose given the direction this thread has taken.....

I only hope that that friday can soothe some of the raging anger inside you - its all football related, right?

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 07:26 PM
lmao...they were showing top 10 plays off the week on espn...they showed the brady/moss TD....the guy said " its almost like he new where the defenders would be !!!!! :toofunny: good stuff

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:27 PM
" Belichick's intoxicating coaching blazon pulls you in like a magnetic force-field as much as his absolutist, anti-media and curmudgeonly nature pushes you away. He remains perhaps the most unique coaching figure in all of sports with the personality of a recently Maced grizzly bear and a coaching IQ better than Vince Lombardi's or Paul Brown's."
? Mike Freeman, CBSSportsLine.com, July 30

[B]Wow.

"I think the main reason for any success that we have is attributable to the players who go out there and make the plays that enable us to win. Without good football players, players who play well and who play in tough situations, and being consistent, you can't win in this league. So I give the credit to whatever games we've won, whatever success we've had, to the players that have gone out there and made those plays to enable the team to be successful."
- BB, December 27
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/jpriode73/o_rly.jpg

Ha.

On a gloomy day, that owl face made me laugh.

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 07:27 PM
I see the lynch mob is out in full effect :toofunny:

If, and when, the punishment gets handed down - the Patriots will take it on the chin and move on.

I always realised there was an under current of resentment toward the Patriots - understandable given recent history - but this has been a real lightening rod.

People sound so....angry....I mean really angry.

So thats fine, Shutdown24 - you want to keep venting by calling me personally a coward for not answering every retarded two sentence rant you make - then fine - most of 'em got he response they deserved ie none.

We'll see how bad the damage is friday, I guess - I doubt they'll award the Championships to the Steelers of 2001 and 2004 in retrospect, though...but you can always pray....that'd make you a Dynasty again..right :wink02:

ps Im still looking forward to the San diego game :chuckle:

LITP - this is not the Jax Jags we are talking about - it is what has been held up as the model franchise of this decade both on and off the field and they have been caught cheating. I have had my fun with talk about lifetime bans but it is a big deal. The Pats are not only successful but are not bashful about claiming they do it based on their competitive edge of brains and coaching rather than just raw talent. Pride goeth before a fall.

My only question is whether that cameraman is like Barry Bonds "trainer" and stays silent or goes down the Q and P-Funk road and says how long and often this has gone on.

Take it from a Duke grad who can tell you what real hatred from opposing college basketball fans is like - nobody hates you when you are losing.

HometownGal
09-11-2007, 07:27 PM
That the best the almighty Patriot defender could come up with???

Ya I am going to call you out. You post until the proof comes out and then your gone.

You went from High and mighty on this thread - to conservative - to making up excuses. You really take after your franchise and despite what your english mind tells you, that is no longer a compliment.

I don't back down. When I am wrong, though, I admit it. It's ashame you can't do the same. Schefter is always right, you should be the one praying.

There isn't smoke anymore, it's a full out forest fire.

I think we can express our disgust, outrage and whatever else we are feeling without making ethnic remarks folks.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:29 PM
I think we can express our disgust, outrage and whatever else we are feeling without making ethnic remarks folks.

Thanks HTG.

This anti-English thing is pretty bizarre - you have a couple of guys on the board from the very same place and another guy from Scotland.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 07:31 PM
I think we can express our disgust, outrage and whatever else we are feeling without making ethnic remarks folks.

He has used the fact that I am a student in the same instance. Ethnic, race, occupation, age... All the same. It wasn't used in a malicious manner anyway, just as a descriptive word... Only thing I could think of since I didn't want to use anything that would hurt his feelings too bad.

I have family in England, nothing against it.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 07:31 PM
LITP - this is not the Jax Jags we are talking about - it is what has been held up as the model franchise of this decade both on and off the field and they have been caught cheating. I have had my fun with talk about lifetime bans but it is a big deal. The Pats are not only successful but are not bashful about claiming they do it based on their competitive edge of brains and coaching rather than just raw talent. Pride goeth before a fall.

My only question is whether that cameraman is like Barry Bonds "trainer" and stays silent or goes down the Q and P-Funk road and says how long and often this has gone on.

Take it from a Duke grad who can tell you what real hatred from opposing college basketball fans is like - nobody hates you when you are losing.
:jawdrop: DUKE !!! :mad:

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:34 PM
LITP - this is not the Jax Jags we are talking about - it is what has been held up as the model franchise of this decade both on and off the field and they have been caught cheating. I have had my fun with talk about lifetime bans but it is a big deal. The Pats are not only successful but are not bashful about claiming they do it based on their competitive edge of brains and coaching rather than just raw talent. Pride goeth before a fall.

My only question is whether that cameraman is like Barry Bonds "trainer" and stays silent or goes down the Q and P-Funk road and says how long and often this has gone on.

Take it from a Duke grad who can tell you what real hatred from opposing college basketball fans is like - nobody hates you when you are losing.

Im sorry, but the Patriots haven't held themselves up as anything.

We al;ready went down this line in the offseason - all the talk of low talent/high character guys is total media BS - I have never read an interview of a Patriots coach saying that their guys won because of the coaching staff.

You're a resourceful guy, maybe you can dig one up.

The fact is, the Patriots try to keep things low-key - they dont really do brashy, they let other teams do all the smack talking - then they come back game time and smack 'em right in the mouth.

When this is finally broken down i'd love to get the perspective of an ex-NFL coach who tell us, genuinely, and without hysteria how much this truly affected the Patriots play over the last 5/6 years.

I don't see how they possibly thought they could escape censure when the cameraguy was practically right next to the bench - no-one has come up with a plausible explanation yet.

If the league thinks its worthy of a draft pick deduction, then so be it.

HometownGal
09-11-2007, 07:34 PM
He has used the fact that I am a student in the same instance. Ethnic, race, occupation, age... All the same. It wasn't used in a malicious manner anyway, just as a descriptive word... Only thing I could think of since I didn't want to use anything that would hurt his feelings too bad.

I have family in England.

OK, ShutDown. Now go have a cucumber sammich, ya hear? :wink02:

Just kidding LITP - honestly! :flap::wink02:

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 07:35 PM
:jawdrop: DUKE !!! :mad:

Yeah - I have noticed that avatar but words cannot express my feelings:sofunny:

Has the first riot of the season been scheduled yet at College Park?

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:35 PM
He has used the fact that I am a student in the same instance. Ethnic, race, occupation, age... All the same. It wasn't used in a malicious manner anyway, just as a descriptive word... Only thing I could think of since I didn't want to use anything that would hurt his feelings too bad.

I have family in England, nothing against it.

When I wished you the best in your journalism career?

you were the one who pleaded poverty to a tiny $5 bet. You shouldnt be sat at home getting angry on the PC - you should be out doing a job if money truly is that tight.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:36 PM
OK, ShutDown. Now go have a cucumber sammich, ya hear? :wink02:

Just kidding LITP - honestly! :flap::wink02:

Ha.

Ya freakin' kidder :flap:

Preacher
09-11-2007, 07:36 PM
well.....you look at the signal,then you look at what the defense did on the field ....coverage,blitz etc....

Exactly.

And it explains how a Pats team that was coached by a so-so coach in Cleveland with so-so players except for a few can have three SB championships.

Suspicion is starting to reign in this entire Pats run of victories over the last few years.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 07:38 PM
The fact is, the Patriots try to keep things low-key - they dont really do brashy, they let other teams do all the smack talking - then they come back game time and smack 'em right in the mouth.

.
i guess knowing where thier mouth will be ,makes it much easier !!!!:shake01:

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 07:40 PM
Yeah - I have noticed that avatar but words cannot express my feelings:sofunny:

Has the first riot of the season been scheduled yet at College Park?
i'm gettin it organized...thanks for asking....:wink02:

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:40 PM
i guess knowing where thier mouth will be ,makes it much easier !!!!:shake01:

For sure.

The sheer simplicity of the 'cheating' is genius.

Get a guy with a big video camera and get him to film the becnh from 30 metres away.

Get caught.

Then carry on doing it anyway.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 07:41 PM
Another topic where you were debating with TC you stated. "I noticed it made you angry when I made those mature students back down using a measly $5"

D-Check: Oh good this in the BF, let me continue.


1. The same day you offered me the bet with over/under ten wins for the Patriots. It may have been the same few minutes, most definitely were addressing me.

2. Never take money of any kind no matter how "measly" it is to you for granted.

3. You addressed me I am guessing, at least according to you, by student since it what I am. I addressed you with English because that is what I believe you are.

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 07:42 PM
anyways, anyone catch ladainian tomlinsons comments before goodells "ruling" broke?

LOL- he said they always have seemed like a team that believes that if youre not cheating youre not trying.

anyone see charlie weiss being asked about the subject? he looked like the cat who ate the canary. with a broad grin he simply stated he wasnt even gonna touch this one.

i really am suprised by all the outrage. really, who didnt know it? like i said, you can gamble, but nobody beats the house all the time in this day and age, unless there are competitive advantages being gained.

atlanta dan- i fear youre right. any sanction handed down will wind up being mostly symbolic but the message will be sent. i'lljust be happy to know the patriots are no longer allowed to use these underhanded tactics when the steelers travel to foxboro this year.

i think tagliabue let a little too much slide in the name of building up heros and global recognition. i think teams and players fell into a comfort zone thinking they can get away with whatever they want.

it seems the door is being slammed shut on those days. theres something to be said for integrity. (shhhh. dont tell patfans that though- they might say were just disgruntled) :sofunny:

Preacher
09-11-2007, 07:44 PM
I think we can express our disgust, outrage and whatever else we are feeling without making ethnic remarks folks.

Can I still poke at LITP for sounding like Ozzy Osbourne... and having Camilla in the royals??

:sofunny:

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:45 PM
anyways, anyone catch ladainian tomlinsons comments before goodells "ruling" broke?

LOL- he said they always have seemed like a team that believes that if youre not cheating youre not trying.

anyone see charlie weiss being asked about the subject? he looked like the cat who ate the canary. with a broad grin he simply stated he wasnt even gonna touch this one.

i really am suprised by all the outrage. really, who didnt know it? like i said, you can gamble, but nobody beats the house all the time in this day and age, unless there are competitive advantages being gained.

atlanta dan- i fear youre right. any sanction handed down will wind up being mostly symbolic but the message will be sent. i'lljust be happy to know the patriots are no longer allowed to use these underhanded tactics when the steelers travel to foxboro this year.

i think tagliabue let a little too much slide in the name of building up heros and global recognition. i think teams and players fell into a comfort zone thinking they can get away with whatever they want.

it seems the door is being slammed shut on those days. theres something to be said for integrity. (shhhh. dont tell patfans that though- they might say were just disgruntled) :sofunny:

Now, im all disgruntled.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:46 PM
Can I still poke at LITP for sounding like Ozzy Osbourne... and having Camilla in the royals??

:sofunny:

Ozzy Osbourne?

:toofunny:

ExtonSteelFan
09-11-2007, 07:46 PM
EDIT: you guys are too quick for me.

HometownGal
09-11-2007, 07:47 PM
Can I still poke at LITP for sounding like Ozzy Osbourne... and having Camilla in the royals??

:sofunny:

Of course - LITP can take a joke. After all - he's a Belichick fan and right now, there's no bigger joke in the news. :sofunny::wink02:

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 07:48 PM
i'm gettin it organized...thanks for asking....:wink02:

:cheers:

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:49 PM
Another topic where you were debating with TC you stated. "I noticed it made you angry when I made those mature students back down using a measly $5"

D-Check: Oh good this in the BF, let me continue.


1. The same day you offered me the bet with over/under ten wins for the Patriots. It may have been the same few minutes, most definitely were addressing me.

2. Never take money of any kind no matter how "measly" it is to you for granted.

3. You addressed me I am guessing, at least according to you, by student since it what I am. I addressed you with English because that is what I believe you are.

Actually, it wasn't a reference to you.

TH appeared to me making out that I only challenged students to bets - the 'mature' comments was due to the fact that I doubted whether alot of the guys on here that i had offered bets to were in fact students (and were in fact alot older)

Thats all.

Hines0wnz
09-11-2007, 07:50 PM
Nothing will come of this latest episode int he Jets 'dirty tricks' campaign.



http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/jpriode73/o_rly.jpg

:flap:

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:51 PM
Of course - LITP can take a joke. After all - he's a Belichick fan and right now, there's no bigger joke in the news. :sofunny::wink02:

Ya got any smiley's that blow real raspberries with sound effects?

that guy just aint getting the job done for me.

BozMan
09-11-2007, 07:51 PM
Exactly.

And it explains how a Pats team that was coached by a so-so coach in Cleveland with so-so players except for a few can have three SB championships.

Suspicion is starting to reign in this entire Pats run of victories over the last few years.

I hope someone is going through the video of Pats games from 2001-06 with a fine tooth comb. I'd especially like to see footage from their playoff games. From what we know so far, the Pats were not even very discrete about the video camera. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same guy all these years on the field recording. His name and picture will probably be plastered all over the web pretty soon.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:51 PM
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/jpriode73/o_rly.jpg

:flap:

Ah, sod it.

Gimme that pic.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 07:53 PM
Actually, it wasn't a reference to you.

TH appeared to me making out that I only challenged students to bets - the 'mature' comments was due to the fact that I doubted whether alot of the guys on here that i had offered bets to were in fact students (and were in fact alot older)

Thats all.

My refferring to you as English was as a descriptive word...

That's all.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 07:54 PM
My refferring to you as English was as a descriptive word...

That's all.


Ooookay then.

Now that we've discovered that you are a student and I am English maybe we can both give the descriptiveness a break? :wink02:

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 07:56 PM
When this is finally broken down i'd love to get the perspective of an ex-NFL coach who tell us, genuinely, and without hysteria how much this truly affected the Patriots play over the last 5/6 years.

I don't see how they possibly thought they could escape censure when the cameraguy was practically right next to the bench - no-one has come up with a plausible explanation yet.

If the league thinks its worthy of a draft pick deduction, then so be it.actually pat kirwan and bill parcells broke this down brilliantly, although it was sort of like blaming the rape victim for the short skirt she was wearing. their (mostly parcells) take was that a good coach pretty much changes up their signals every game (doesnt take care of signals stolen mid game though).

kirwan keenly had the better solution and answer.: the nfl just needs to outfit the safeties helmet with audio transmission equipment like the QB uses and put an end to all this shit. makes sense to me. without the hysteria the 11 men still have to take their competitive advantage out onto the field and execute.

as far as your next question, i will use the example of michael irvin. how was he able to push off on almost every reception? because the rule simply wasnt being enforced. the patriots did it blatantly because they thought they could "escape censure".

whether or not you can possibly see what they thought or didnt think, the fact is they did it. it doesnt matter if you "get it" or not.

its really kinda simple. why does a serial killer keep killing? i dont get how they can blatantly do that, thinking they will never get caught, but you know what? how many serial killers have just kicked the habit?

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 07:57 PM
Ooookay then.

Now that we've discovered that you are a student and I am English maybe we can both give the descriptiveness a break? :wink02:

Sure, but that doesn't mean the Patriots will be getting one.

Hines0wnz
09-11-2007, 07:57 PM
Ah, sod it.

Gimme that pic.


haha.....its irresistible, I know. :sofunny:

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 08:03 PM
actually pat kirwan and bill parcells broke this down brilliantly, although it was sort of like blaming the rape victim for the short skirt she was wearing. their (mostly parcells) take was that a good coach pretty much changes up their signals every game (doesnt take care of signals stolen mid game though).

kirwan keenly had the better solution and answer.: the nfl just needs to outfit the safeties helmet with audio transmission equipment like the QB uses and put an end to all this shit. makes sense to me. without the hysteria the 11 men still have to take their competitive advantage out onto the field and execute.

as far as your next question, i will use the example of michael irvin. how was he able to push off on almost every reception? because the rule simply wasnt being enforced. the patriots did it blatantly because they thought they could "escape censure".

whether or not you can possibly see what they thought or didnt think, the fact is they did it. it doesnt matter if you "get it" or not.

its really kinda simple. why does a serial killer keep killing? i dont get how they can blatantly do that, thinking they will never get caught, but you know what? how many serial killers have just kicked the habit?

Thats a very fair post - and I agree for the most part.

I read those couple of solutions on PFT - the issue of the helmet mic for defensive captains only got 22 of the 25 votes it needed (I think those were the numbers) - they than asked if the Patriots were one of the teams who voted against it?

Presumably so.

It doesn't fully explain why the other 9/10 teams voted against it - unless they had some type of vested interest.

I guess you are probably also right about the Patriots pushing and pushing the line becasue they believed they weren't going to get caught (btw whats with all the serial killers and rapists in with Belichick :wink02: )

Thanks for a decent post, it makes a nice change up from the 'I Hate the patriots stuff' that is all over this thread.

My guess is that this punishment is enough to stop this happening again all season - and then enxt year they bring in the helmet mics on the defensive side of the ball.

Preacher
09-11-2007, 08:04 PM
Ok, dammit.

How much you want for 'em? :toofunny:


:sofunny: Good job manning up on that! :cheers:

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 08:05 PM
Actually, it wasn't a reference to you.

TH appeared to me making out that I only challenged students to bets - the 'mature' comments was due to the fact that I doubted whether alot of the guys on here that i had offered bets to were in fact students (and were in fact alot older)

Thats all.nice smokescreen, but i simply cited the example of the most recent bet you had made and how you were goading people to pay for the right to have an opinion. i took shutdowns explanation for what it was worth. you took it as an invalidation of ones opinion.

oh this is great. nfl network is replaying the pats-jets game.

phil simms says the keys for the game is "can tom brady deal with the blitz?" :toofunny:

now i can see exactly where and how they were cheating. perfect!

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 08:06 PM
Sure, but that doesn't mean the Patriots will be getting one.

Its the BF - do your worst :kick:

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 08:07 PM
:sofunny: Good job manning up on that! :cheers:
lol. i thought that was a funny comeback too. so convinient i just got back from the city of bridges and had plenty of examples of ones i was scouting and surveying.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 08:08 PM
nice smokescreen, but i simply cited the example of the most recent bet you had made and how you were goading people to pay for the right to have an opinion. i took shutdowns explanation for what it was worth. you took it as an invalidation of ones opinion.

oh this is great. nfl network is replaying the pats-jets game.

phil simms says the keys for the game is "can tom brady deal with the blitz?" :toofunny:

now i can see exactly where and how they were cheating. perfect!

I've got the game on tape...I watched it earlier today, again.

Even though I know the guy with the video camera done it, he is still the 2nd most suspicious person on the sideline behind BB!!!

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 08:10 PM
nice smokescreen, but i simply cited the example of the most recent bet you had made and how you were goading people to pay for the right to have an opinion. i took shutdowns explanation for what it was worth. you took it as an invalidation of ones opinion.

And I was just settling down!!!... j/kin...

Preacher
09-11-2007, 08:10 PM
I hope someone is going through the video of Pats games from 2001-06 with a fine tooth comb. I'd especially like to see footage from their playoff games. From what we know so far, the Pats were not even very discrete about the video camera. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same guy all these years on the field recording. His name and picture will probably be plastered all over the web pretty soon.

While I wonder about that... It won't do any good. Fact is, those games are played, and done.

I could understand if the Pats were forced to forfeit this last game...

But I doubt it will all be gone over... no, actually I don't. I just don't see a point in it. Also, as much as I wonder things, I also don't think it was every play, every game. Who knows though.

Just remember Steeler fans... We had a few guys on roids in the 70's, and now everyone accuses us of winning for SB's on roids alone... let's not make that same mistake in accusing the Pats...

I do however, wonder how MANY games were won on account of that. However, thinking about the game against Pittsburgh in 2004, it was Ben's POORLY thrown ball that was intercepted, and our D was outplayed.

So in the end... I think the last few years will be tainted... questions will always be asked... but in the end, They are 3 time SB champions.

I have to wonder though... if there will be a fourth.

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 08:10 PM
:sofunny: Good job manning up on that! :cheers:


Heh.

Ya give it, ya gotta take it right back!

I was caught bang to rights on that one, guv'nor.

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 08:12 PM
anyone remember the stat that was always thrown around that belichick NEVER loses to a qb in the 2nd go around in a year?

:toofunny:

fansince'76
09-11-2007, 08:12 PM
Just remember Steeler fans... We had a few guys on roids in the 70's, and now everyone accuses us of winning for SB's on roids alone... let's not make that same mistake in accusing the Pats...

Agreed - that idiot Cook even wrote a column about it. And never mind the crying still being heard from the Pacific Northwest....

Livinginthe past
09-11-2007, 08:14 PM
So...AHEM....anywayyyyyyyyyyy....anyone hear about the Steelers moving up to No.9 in the ESPN Power rankings?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/powerranking?season=2007&week=2

Even there, there is no escape...

1 (1) Patriots 1-0-0 Now we know why Bill Belichick -- especially when he wears a hood -- always appears so secretive. The guy's a spy! OK, it's evidently just one of his cameramen. Do they need the help that bad?

Hines0wnz
09-11-2007, 08:16 PM
Breaking news......a Patriot informer witnessed Belichik's new idea for keeping the camera's hidden in future games.



http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/jpriode73/lol_pantz.jpg

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 08:17 PM
So...AHEM....anywayyyyyyyyyyy....anyone hear about the Steelers moving up to No.9 in the ESPN Power rankings?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/powerranking?season=2007&week=2

Even there, there is no escape...:offtopic:

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 08:21 PM
anyone ever wonder how the patriots always guess correctly with going with the spread offense and passing attack as opposed to the power running game?

i guess if cowher were a CHEATER he would be so much better at making all those "in game adjustments".

its funny how only belichick was so capable of abandonning a whole weeks worth of preparation on an opponent in the middle of a game.

:scratchchin:

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 08:26 PM
anyone ever wonder how the patriots always guess correctly with going with the spread offense and passing attack as opposed to the power running game?

i guess if cowher were a CHEATER he would be so much better at making all those "in game adjustments".

its funny how only belichick was so capable of abandonning a whole weeks worth of preparation on an opponent in the middle of a game.

:scratchchin:
hmmmmmm.....how many sb's do you think cowher could have won if he were a CHEATER .....:tap:

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 08:31 PM
hmmmmmm.....how many sb's do you think cowher could have won if he were a CHEATER .....:tap:going on the patriots recent level of success, and going on our talent level compared to the patriots talent level, id say about 8

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 08:31 PM
In a nut shell, now that this has settled down... There are a lot of questions to be answered, a lot of fun to be had with the New England, fans coaches and players and much more debate to be had.

Some good things come out of it after all! :)

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 08:34 PM
going on the patriots recent level of success, and going on our talent level compared to the patriots talent level, id say about 8
but could you be a fan of a known CHEATER.???...not me.

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 08:46 PM
but could you be a fan of a known CHEATER.???...not me.definitely not. and i know the rooneys would never employ a CHEATER. after all they are football people and it is proven that the integrity of the league has always been in the forefront. hell, art sr. suffered through 40 years of losing and never batted an eye.

i can see how kraft would look the other way, after all his main business is pimpin products to china.

likewise its no suprise that arthur blank would ignore all the warning signs that came with mike vick. look at what he did for the falcons as a business. sometimes the bottom line is all that matters. im lucky enough to be born a steelers fan but if i wasnt i would definitely choose a team with such substance and principals.

but thats just me. :cheers:

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 08:47 PM
In a nut shell, now that this has settled down... There are a lot of questions to be answered, a lot of fun to be had with the New England, fans coaches and players and much more debate to be had.

Some good things come out of it after all! :)

Yep - every columnist who has a "maybe Belichick is not as smart as we thought he was" column ready to go if the Pats do not win it all this year can unload it in the next 72 hours with the added dig that Belichick is not just personally unpleasant to deal with but an immoral cheater.

Payback can be brutal.

jasonpirkle
09-11-2007, 08:49 PM
no wonder Kraft gave on of his superbowl rings away so easily. cheated for it anyway.

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 08:56 PM
definitely not. and i know the rooneys would never employ a CHEATER. after all they are football people and it is proven that the integrity of the league has always been in the forefront. hell, art sr. suffered through 40 years of losing and never batted an eye.

i can see how kraft would look the other way, after all his main business is pimpin products to china.

likewise its no suprise that arthur blank would ignore all the warning signs that came with mike vick. look at what he did for the falcons as a business. sometimes the bottom line is all that matters. im lucky enough to be born a steelers fan but if i wasnt i would definitely choose a team with such substance and principals.

but thats just me. :cheers:

Dan Rooney is a good guy but there is nothing more bottom line oriented than ramming a stadium subsidy proposal through the state legislature, after it clearly has been rejected at the ballot box by the taxpayers forced to pay for it, that results in the value of the company you own being increased by hundreds of millions of dollars due to a government handout.

I love the Steelers and respect the Rooneys but when it comes to protecting their investment the Rooneys aren't running a charity.

ZIGGY0246
09-11-2007, 09:07 PM
living here in new england i have heard just about every angle on this from the pats really doing this to them being set up by the jets . my feelings is that they did some form of what they are accused of but how bad we will see

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 09:20 PM
living here in new england i have heard just about every angle on this from the pats really doing this to them being set up by the jets . my feelings is that they did some form of what they are accused of but how bad we will see
ummmm....breaking news....thier guilty as charged!!!!!:shake01:

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 09:22 PM
Dan Rooney is a good guy but there is nothing more bottom line oriented than ramming a stadium subsidy proposal through the state legislature, after it clearly has been rejected at the ballot box by the taxpayers forced to pay for it, that results in the value of the company you own being increased by hundreds of millions of dollars due to a government handout.

I love the Steelers and respect the Rooneys but when it comes to protecting their investment the Rooneys aren't running a charity.was any of it done illegally? was there any CHEATING involved?

Edman
09-11-2007, 09:41 PM
This scandal has the potental to be bigger than we thought.

I think the NFL should run a deep investigation into this. Remember, this isn't the first time the Pats were caught doing this. How long ago does this date back?

I really love how Pats fans try to spin this. "Everyone spies, It's no big deal" they say.

If this is true, why have only the Pats been accused, oh wait...CAUGHT spying?

"*..."

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 09:41 PM
definitely not. and i know the rooneys would never employ a CHEATER. after all they are football people and it is proven that the integrity of the league has always been in the forefront. hell, art sr. suffered through 40 years of losing and never batted an eye.

i can see how kraft would look the other way, after all his main business is pimpin products to china.

likewise its no suprise that arthur blank would ignore all the warning signs that came with mike vick. look at what he did for the falcons as a business. sometimes the bottom line is all that matters. im lucky enough to be born a steelers fan but if i wasnt i would definitely choose a team with such substance and principals.

but thats just me. :cheers:yeah i hear ya.... i'd root for a perrenial looser like the browns , before i'd stay on a CHEATERS bandwagon.....:popcorn:

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-11-2007, 09:52 PM
And the plot thickens - freaking cheaters how many of those superbowl trophies are tainted.... Guess anyone would be 1-7 against the patriots if they knew where the defense was going. Can't wait to see coach never changes his shirt in his next news conference I'm sure the look on is face is going to be the look of a baby getting ready to fart. They deserve everything they get.

WERE PATS WIRING DEFENSIVE PLAYERS, TOO?

The situation regarding the New England Patriots and the allegations/proof that they have stolen defensive signals is unofficially getting weirder.

The signal stealing flap is relevant only to defensive signals, since all offensive calls are made by radio.

But we're now aware of suspicions/rumors regarding efforts by the Pats to get a leg up as to opposing offenses. Specifically, we're told that it's believed that, during the 2006 season, the Patriots were putting microphones on defensive linemen in order to capture the offensive line calls and the quarterback audibles.

Then, the audio and the video of the game would be matched up, and the defensive players would be given the code at halftime.

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 09:53 PM
anyone think the colts mightve thrown a monkeywrench in the scheme and changed THEIR signals at half time last year?

naaaahh. only a "genius" like belichick would be smart enough to do that. or maybe dungy just figured "once a CHEATER, always a CHEATER" and thought it would be better safe than sorry.

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 10:04 PM
anyone think the colts mightve thrown a monkeywrench in the scheme and changed THEIR signals at half time last year?

naaaahh. only a "genius" like belichick would be smart enough to do that. or maybe dungy just figured "once a CHEATER, always a CHEATER" and thought it would be better safe than sorry.
i think your on to something tony....and just think, cowher hasn't changed the gamebook in 15 yrs, i'd imagine he hasn't changed the signals since 2000....:jawdrop: is it possible the CHEATING has gone on that long?

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-11-2007, 10:07 PM
is it possible the CHEATING has gone on that long?

ABSOLUTELY

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2007, 10:09 PM
The Patriots may also have violated another league rule during the game by having additional audio receivers on their sideline, Glazer reports. However, league sources have indicated that while the NFL may eventually look into those allegations, it is currently focusing on the violations with the videotape.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7216044

is there no end to thier CHEATING ?

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 10:27 PM
Listening to sports radio in the car the common theme is "nobody is surprised"

Dave Wannstedt quoted as describing "unbelievable stuff" when they would visit New England

Reminds me of when Watergate broke - Belichick = Nixon? Big winners but at what price?:toofunny:

They had audio of LT, who in addition to "not being surprised" was laughing as he said with the Patriots the attitude is if you aren't cheating you aren't really trying - throwing napalm onto the fire for Sunday night.

Think Costas, Madden & Michaels will have something to talk about?

Another point made by one talking head - Wade Wilson gets a 5 game suspension as an assistant coach for using HGH that provides him no competitive advantage - why not go after a coach for cheating

X-Terminator
09-11-2007, 10:37 PM
You know, I think back to the past few years when the Pats had so many injuries that it seemed like they could literally pick up some jabroni off the street, plug him in and not miss a beat? It obviously would be easy for them to pick things up quickly if they're getting a little "help." Plus, look at a few of the guys who have left NE and gone elsewhere for big money, most notably David Givens and David Patten. Are those guys even still playing? Joe Andruzzi is another one - last I saw, he was stinking it up in Cleveland after landing a mega-deal. Obviously, you don't need much talent to succeed if you know what's going to happen before the other team does.

A light bulb should also have come on in everyone's head when you'd see Brady walk up to the line of scrimmage, survey the defense, begin calling signals, then stop and point to where a defender is lined up. I'm sure he wasn't just doing that for show.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 10:39 PM
Patten is with the Saints and Givens is with the Titans (If you were not just making a point lol)

Good post.

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 11:00 PM
Bob Kraft responds to the unpleasantness - "There is an investigation going on now, and perhaps an adjudication of it, and I think it would be inappropriate at this time to make any comment," Kraft told reporters at a charity appearance Tuesday. "When you're successful in anything, a lot of people like to try to take you down and do different things. We understand that".

http://www.sportsline.com/print/nfl/story/10346460

Well I am glad to hear this is about a lot of people trying to take the Pats down by doing "different things" - thanks for clearing that up for me Bob and I am glad you are so understanding.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 11:04 PM
That right there is as good as a confession.

HometownGal
09-11-2007, 11:05 PM
I'm having flashbacks. . . .

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/e/e7/300px-Richard_Nixon_campaign_rally_1968.png

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper410/stills/16r53u4n.jpg

fansince'76
09-11-2007, 11:05 PM
"When you're successful in anything, a lot of people like to try to take you down and do different things. We understand that".

Ah, so it's all jealousy now? Where have I heard that before? Apparently, the Commish thinks it's a bit more.

ShutDown24
09-11-2007, 11:10 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/37/GirlYouKnowItsTrue.jpg/220px-GirlYouKnowItsTrue.jpg

Anyone see a similarity?

Atlanta Dan
09-11-2007, 11:14 PM
I'm having flashbacks. . . .

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/e/e7/300px-Richard_Nixon_campaign_rally_1968.png

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper410/stills/16r53u4n.jpg

:sofunny:

"Let others wallow in Watergate -- we are going to do our job." - Richard Nixon

"When you're successful in anything, a lot of people like to try to take you down and do different things. We understand that" - Robert Kraft

tony hipchest
09-11-2007, 11:15 PM
Another point made by one talking head - Wade Wilson gets a 5 game suspension as an assistant coach for using HGH that provides him no competitive advantage - why not go after a coach for cheatingthis is the small thread im holding onto that a true punative action will actually be taken (like you pointed out, a fine is a complete joke).

goodell has warned that not even assistants or coaches or ANY member of an organization is immune from the new coduct policies. just when he thought his job was getting a little easier, huh?

but a suspension of belichick may not even be that devestating. NASCAR fans can liken it to this years suspension of jeff gordons and jimmie johnsons crew chiefs for 6 races. while it hurt a bit, both teams are still #1 and #2 as they go into the "playoffs".

Nascar is a sport that almost flaunts the mantra "if youre not cheating, youre not trying". and as multiple time offenders, the hendrick teams have definitely been "trying".

personally im glad to root for a team owner such as roger penske who is on record saying any crew cheif he employs caught cheating will immediately be fired. you know what? his teams dont get busted cheating. (draw up any bengals vs steelers players character issue comparisons here)

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-12-2007, 12:01 AM
Was just watching the talking sports heads out of the new england Gret Tanguay and Greg Dickerson and one of the comments made was---

"...this is what bothers me they (NE) don't need it (the cheating) unfortunately I think this could tarnish their image, I don't think they needed to do this to win."

Ahhh ya think? Well its OBVIOUS they thought they needed to steal signals to win or else they wouldn't have been doing it. Those three jokers were trying to muster up every excuse possible to make it "okay".

Tarnish sure looks good on the Golden Boy's of football and their puss faced coach. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.....I smell our first coaching suspension coming.

In the words of Joey Porter "cheat this!"

BozMan
09-12-2007, 12:04 AM
The more I think about possible punishments for the Pats, the more I think that they've already been dealt the harshest punishment. The "Patriots" have lost their honor, dignity, and respect. What could be worse?

This will tarnish and cast into doubt what was, until now, the greatest period in Patriots history. Their "dynasty" now has a huge asterisk next to it. The cherished memories of their fans now have a black cloud over them. The athletic accomplishments of their players are now met with deep suspicion.

In short, the damage already done to their reputations is far worse than any fines or loss of draft picks could be.

It will be interesting to see how this affects the current NE players. They and their fans obviously entered this season with very high expectations. Now this scandal will be the defining story of this season and this decade. How much will this distract the Patriot players? In what mental state will they be for the rest of the season?

What will be the long term ramifications of this scandal? Belichick and Brady will probably be dogged by questions about it for the rest of their respective careers. Maybe one or both will even be denied entrance into the Hall of Fame. I wonder if, as part of damage control, they will do interviews on shows like 20/20, 60 Minutes, etc. That'll be a joy to watch.

As a side note, if teams such as GB and NYJ knew about these shenanigans, I'm surprised that they didn't use that against the Patriots. For instance, just change up their signals mid-way through the game. If, for example, the Pats know the signal for a blitz from the left side, give that signal, line up in that formation, then at the last second, switch to a blitz from the right side instead. The look of astonishment and puzzlement on Belichick's face would be priceless as his pretty boy QB picks himself up and knocks the grass and mud out of his facemask. Then, of course, switch the signal back or make it signify yet a third play. Rinse and repeat.

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-12-2007, 12:23 AM
More on New England Cheater Bill from the Steelers.

http://postgazette.com/pg/07255/816713-66.stm

Flagging New England for illegal use of camera is on Steelers' minds
Wednesday, September 12, 2007
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Steelers assistant coaches say privately that New England coach Bill Belichick has illegally used cameras to spy on opposing coaches flashing signals from the sideline for years, even when he was coach of the Cleveland Browns.

The NFL has confiscated a video camera and its contents from a Patriots employee who was standing on the sideline during New England's victory against the New York Jets Sunday, recording hand signals by Jets coaches, according to an ESPN report.

The Patriots reportedly were warned about a previous use of a camera in a similar situation in Green Bay after the Packers escorted the cameraman from the field. A Boston Globe report also said the Buffalo Bills complained that the Patriots used a camera in a game against them last year.

Steelers coaches, who asked not to be identified, have suspected for a long time that the Patriots used such a device to gain an illegal advantage, although they did not file a complaint with the league.

One assistant said the Steelers changed their defensive signals whenever they played against New England because of their suspicions.

New Steelers coach Mike Tomlin did not outright accuse New England of cheating, but said that the rumors have been around and "where there is smoke, there's fire."

Tomlin, at his press conference yesterday, responded to the allegations that the Patriots have used cameras illegally to focus on opposing coaches along the sideline in order to steal their signals.

"You hear rumors of things of that nature. It's nothing new. In terms of confirming it, it's never been confirmed in any instance to my knowledge. But usually where there is smoke, there's fire. Those rumors are founded on something. So it's not totally shocking, no."

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell could punish the Patriots with a fine and loss of draft picks if he finds the allegations to be true. The Steelers twice lost third-round draft choices for minor violations of NFL rules. They were caught wearing shoulder pads in a minicamp in 1978 and lost a pick in the 1979 draft. They were found in a minor violation of the salary cap and lost a pick in the 2001 draft.

Steelers president Art Rooney II said he did not want to comment on the Patriots' situation.

New England won three Super Bowls in this decade with Belichick as coach and reached two of them by beating the Steelers in AFC championship games in Heinz Field. Tomlin would not speculate on what punishment the Patriots should receive if found in violation, or if an asterisk should appear next to the team's championships.

"I'll let Roger Goodell deal with that. My job is to coach the Pittsburgh Steelers and get ready to play the Buffalo Bills. I'm a guy who gets single-minded this time of year. I can live in a box from time to time. I'll wait and see what comes out of New York in regards to that situation."

Dick Hoak, a former longtime Steelers assistant coach, said the Steelers once received a video from another team by mistake in their exchange with them. The video focused on an opposing coach using hand signals along the sideline. Hoak could not remember the team, but said the Steelers did not file a complaint.

Tomlin, without outright accusing Belichick and the Patriots of illegally spying, said they've been the focus of talk for years about it.

"A lot has been said about the New England guys and New England family, if you will," Tomlin said. "You focus on the variables that you can control; the men that you work with, your preparation; your performance, at least I do. I don't worry about those things."

The Steelers play at New England on Dec. 9.

League owners rejected a proposal in March to allow one defensive player to have a radio receiver in his helmet similar to what a quarterback has, so coaches could call plays directly to him. Such a rule likely would prevent the kind of chicanery the Patriots are accused of doing.

rbryan
09-12-2007, 12:29 AM
Two months ago everyone said Michael Vick was going to be playing opening day too. The NY media is all over this. Mark my words Preacher, heads are gonna roll in Patsyville.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

I called this earlier and you all thought I was crazy. lol

The ESPN conspiracy theory is alive and well. This is just like Al Capone going down for tax evasion when he was really guilty of much worse. Stay tuned, this isn't over yet.

MACH1
09-12-2007, 12:38 AM
If the allegations are all true, the video taping and eavesdropping(stealing radio signals). I said it once before and I'll say it again. Make an example out of them and ban them from the post season this year.

Who knows how much intelligence they have gathered so far on their opponents this year that could still influence any outcomes.

tony hipchest
09-12-2007, 01:13 AM
"Hey tom!

I wanna talk to you about allegations that your team tried to CHEAT me out of 2 Sb appearances".

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/peytonandtom.jpg

not even the pats now infamous cameraman could get shots as priceless as this.

Preacher
09-12-2007, 01:21 AM
If this is any indication...

This is going to get real big...

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-12-2007, 01:23 AM
NEW ENGLAND SUPER BOWL DYNASTY *


* was nothing but a freaking sham

tony hipchest
09-12-2007, 01:40 AM
"Im tellin ya, nobody hits the jackpot on the same machine 3 times in 4 weeks!

How could you not see that?

y'know what the odds of that are?"



http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/casino.jpg





....time to fire belichick! :chuckle:

Steelman16
09-12-2007, 03:02 AM
Given that the current circumstances were proven, and no other things pop up, what would do you think the Commish would inforce as a penalty?

I have to agree with Mike himself. "Where there's smoke, there's usually fire."

ohiosteelerfan20
09-12-2007, 06:46 AM
2001 championship game? I hope the league takes a look at that tape. Every running play the Pats had 10 in the box.

Livinginthe past
09-12-2007, 07:14 AM
2001 championship game? I hope the league takes a look at that tape. Every running play the Pats had 10 in the box.

And then do what?

Replay the 01 SB between the Rams and the Steelers :toofunny:

Aussie_steeler
09-12-2007, 07:16 AM
Just found this great article. Thought you guys might enjoy.

Armed with counter-intelligence from Eric Mangini, the Jets apparently have succeeded in busting the Patriots' spy ring.

A former assistant under Bill Belichick, Mangini arrived in New York last year with an insider's knowledge of the Patriots' sign-stealing surveillance tactics and he shared the dirty little secret with members of the Jets' organization, a person with knowledge of the matter informed the Daily News yesterday.

It wasn't until the fifth Mangini-Belichick showdown - last Sunday - that the Jets were able to catch the Patriots. Tipped off by Jets security, an NFL security official confiscated a video camera and tape from a Patriots employee at the Meadowlands, and the evidence is believed to be damning.




http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2007/09/12/2007-09-12_eric_mangini_exposes_bill_belichicks_spy.html

According to a former coach, this is likely how and why the Patriots stole the Jets defensive signals:

The person with the camera, in this case, Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella, would tape the coach's hand signals as he sends the defense in. Then the camera person would verbally call out down and distance so the recorder's microphone would pick it up. Then when the tape is analyzed, the hand signals are matched up to down and distance and defensive scheme.

"They would have it all chronicled such as: 4-3 even defense, cover 2, hand to the belt, index finger up," the coach said. "Now if you had a sharp guy in the huddle who was in for every play, you would teach him the signals and he would look over to the sidelines and steal the signals and tell the quarterback."



Down here we have a saying when you find something really good to hold against somebody. "THATS GOLD"

Livinginthe past
09-12-2007, 07:32 AM
What will be the longterm effect on Belichick and the Patriots?
Although this is embarrassing, you can't take away what this franchise can do. They may have the best team in football. Robert Kraft is one of the league's best owners. The team has three Super Bowl rings and a great chance to get a fourth. Other great organizations have paid penalties for violating league rules. The Broncos lost a draft choice for violating the salary cap with John Elway. The Steelers once had to forfeit a third-round draft choice for working out in shoulder pads in the offseason. The Patriots may lose a draft choice or two. And whether or not the Patriots videotaped the Jets' defensive signals, Belichick won't be any less of a coach.

John Clayton's take (always did like that guy) - on top of the other teams who 'bent the rules' I believe the 49ers also did some creative accounting.

Aussie_steeler
09-12-2007, 07:37 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/09/12/gal_bp_09_12_2007.jpg

:tt02: