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View Full Version : Relevant point about Patriots cheating


ShutDown24
09-16-2007, 07:43 PM
I know, there are a lot of topics talking about this right now but this is a little different. I have a pretty dang good theory about something and felt the need to make it heard.

If the Patriots really have been doing this for a while as all the accusations point out, the affect of them no longer being able to get away with it will be evident in future years, not so much this current season.

Why? Simple, the team still has the data and info they brought in while doing this. Now supposedly the whole 'library' that the team had on every other club has been confiscated. But in the case that they were copied or some things are easy to remember, New England could still greatly benefit from it this year.

The thing to really watch for is how the team performs next season. If they struggle or tank, it doesn't confirm, but makes a strong case towards the idea that they did in fact do this very often during their current success.

That point, which I have just presented, has gone unnoticed. I really think that this will be the case and define how this all happened. Either way, the team?s legacy is forever tarnished. Thoughts?

coldking
09-16-2007, 07:48 PM
I agree 100%, I was thinking about this all week and waiting for the media to look at that way. I never did here them say it though

ShutDown24
09-16-2007, 07:57 PM
Yeah, that really surprises me that not many people have thought of this yet. I would expect, assuming the Pats win tonight, that this will become a popular opinion this week.

Preacher
09-16-2007, 08:00 PM
While teams change... they don't change that much every year.

the key would be to watch them against teams like us and others that HAVE changed their schemes.

then, in a couple of years, to watch them.

However, here is the other thing, they have capitalized on their success, and brought in a very decent receiver corp.

it is true, Brady still had to go out and play, still had to make the passes. So he is still good. But who is to say the cheating didn't give him the confidence he needed, which other QB's didn't have. If you always know what is coming... it is hard to get into a slump.

ShutDown24
09-16-2007, 08:02 PM
While teams change... they don't change that much every year.

the key would be to watch them against teams like us and others that HAVE changed their schemes.

then, in a couple of years, to watch them.

However, here is the other thing, they have capitalized on their success, and brought in a very decent receiver corp.

it is true, Brady still had to go out and play, still had to make the passes. So he is still good. But who is to say the cheating didn't give him the confidence he needed, which other QB's didn't have. If you always know what is coming... it is hard to get into a slump.

The whole thing about the "He still had to execute" argument is this. No joke, if I knew a defense was running cover 2 - man under I could lead a team down the field. Truth being told, anyone with just a little bit of an arm could. So yes, he still had to execute and perform but how hard was/is that really? Not very.

stlrtruck
09-16-2007, 10:39 PM
Sounds like a good theory. You know what really bugs me about the whole incident is that when Kraft was asked questions, he never gave a direct answer. I mean if anything, just man up to the fact and be done with it - BUT I feel he hid behind it and wasn't very forth coming with answers to the questions he was given tonight on CBS!

He's just as bad as the coach - a punk with no desire to be honest!!!

jjpro11
09-16-2007, 11:01 PM
Sounds like a good theory. You know what really bugs me about the whole incident is that when Kraft was asked questions, he never gave a direct answer. I mean if anything, just man up to the fact and be done with it - BUT I feel he hid behind it and wasn't very forth coming with answers to the questions he was given tonight on CBS!

He's just as bad as the coach - a punk with no desire to be honest!!!

i dont trust anything he has to say. your telling me that the owner of a mega million dollar organization had no idea who was on the sidelines of his team and no idea of what schemes the coach was up to? over the 7 or so years, he never once got a small hint of all the radio frequency crap, patriots personnel going into the visiting teams locker rooms or video taping shit... all going on under his payroll?

Indy_Steelers
09-17-2007, 02:05 PM
GREAT POINT

Steelerstrength
09-17-2007, 05:45 PM
When will they finally turn over all materials, when they claim ignorance to exactly what the definitions are? F'in cheatin' bitches! The NFL should arrive at Foxboro and monitor the process of turning over materials. This appears to be all voluntary, and that's just wrong! Are they worried about the image of the NFL? Of course. But the word is out, so please follow through with the utmost integrity. Do not let them slide, just to continue the same behavior. This may never see the true game played, by the existing rules. Enforcement is the key.

As a side note, in legal plea bargains, such as Vick, the guilty parties are forced to make a public apology and describe exactly what they knowingly did wrong. In all interviews, BB avoids the issue and says,"let's move on." I want to hear him describe what he did, and how he knowingly, and purposely, broke the rules of our treasured game. :twocents:

ShutDown24
09-17-2007, 05:50 PM
When will they finally turn over all materials, when they claim ignorance to exactly what the definitions are? F'in cheatin' bitches! The NFL should arrive at Foxboro and monitor the process of turning over materials. This appears to be all voluntary, and that's just wrong! Are they worried about the image of the NFL? Of course. But the word is out, so please follow through with the utmost integrity. Do not let them slide, just to continue the same behavior. This may never see the true game played, by the existing rules. Enforcement is the key.

As a side note, in legal plea bargains, such as Vick, the guilty parties are forced to make a public apology and describe exactly what they knowingly did wrong. In all interviews, BB avoids the issue and says,"let's move on." I want to hear him describe what he did, and how he knowingly, and purposely, broke the rules of our treasured game. :twocents:

BB was a coward in front of the media, just as he has always been during tough times. He tries to make the media feel inferior in his presence, which doesn't bode well with me at all. Kraft hid behind Belicheat and Belicheat hid behind the Chargers.

geo111
09-17-2007, 06:37 PM
As much as I would like to see the Patriots image tarnished forever, I do not think its going to happen. I think that the NFL wants to get this over as soon as possible.

I listen to the NFL channel on Sirius a lot. and since the cheating came out, it seems that the (unofficial) theme has been that every team tries to figure out their opponents play calling system. It is almost like they want to lessen the impact of Belichicks actions.

On Friday, during the Afternoon Blitz, Jim Miller said that after the Steelers let him go, Jack Del Rio got him to teach the Jaguars about the Steelers system.

According to Miller, he was so successfull, that after the Jags beat the Steelers, he was awarded the game ball.

revefsreleets
09-17-2007, 07:36 PM
As much as I would like to see the Patriots image tarnished forever, I do not think its going to happen. I think that the NFL wants to get this over as soon as possible.

I listen to the NFL channel on Sirius a lot. and since the cheating came out, it seems that the (unofficial) theme has been that every team tries to figure out their opponents play calling system. It is almost like they want to lessen the impact of Belichicks actions.

On Friday, during the Afternoon Blitz, Jim Miller said that after the Steelers let him go, Jack Del Rio got him to teach the Jaguars about the Steelers system.

According to Miller, he was so successfull, that after the Jags beat the Steelers, he was awarded the game ball.

But that happens all the time and is completely understandable. If you can get a turncoat on board who knows the system (cough cough Brian St. Pierre) it makes the oppositions job a lot easier, but that is NOT cheating. Cheating is videotaping and systematically cataloging your opponents plays, and possibly even stealing their playbooks.

rog
09-17-2007, 07:51 PM
The one arguement that I have heard about all this is that it is partly the other teams fault for not changing their signals. I thought about this for awhile I know that when it comes to signs in baseball it is fairly easy to change your signs. One game the bunt sign could be changed to what was the take sign the game before, you probably get my point here but with football signs I would think it would be alot harder. There are so many different plays that get called that I'm not sure if it is even possible for the guys to learn different signs for each game. I have been trying to get a hold of a friend of mine that used to play football in college but wasn't able to yet so if anyone could awnser this for me I would like to hear from you.

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
09-17-2007, 07:52 PM
More shit may be hitting the fan....:cheers:

DESPITE BIG WIN, CHEATING SCANDAL PERSISTS

The New England Patriots throttled the Chargers on Sunday night, beating San Diego by the same 38-14 score that the Pats posted against the Jets.

And the final score of the Jets game isn't the only thing still lingering in New England.

Even though the Patriots spanked L.T. and company on national television, there continues to be a strong amount of momentum building behind ongoing allegations of past efforts to cheat.

On Sunday, it was reported by multiple outlets that Commissioner Roger Goodell has made a sweeping request for notes, videotapes, and files dating back to 2000, coach Bill Belichick's first season with the team. Appearing exclusively on NBC, Goodell confirmed that the request has been made, and he made it clear that any funny business in the effort to comply with his request will be met with further sanctions. (Obviously, any further evidence of cheating will be met with further sanctions, too.)

The broader question is whether further evidence of cheating will be found, either through the Commissioner's investigation or as a result of the burgeoning (thanks, Tiki) media feeding frenzy. Regardless of whether the league's official investigation includes interviews of current and former employees, it's a safe bet that many folks in the media are working hard to be the one to push this story forward -- especially after Jay Glazer of FOX got his mitts on the video that was confiscated from the Week One game at the Meadowlands. (For those of you who missed it, here it is.)

And there's plenty of fodder for further investigation. On Sunday, Jerome Bettis of NBC suggested that cheating fueled the Pats' 2004 AFC title game win at Pittsburgh. (On CBS, former Steelers coach Bill Cowher denied that cheating affected either of the team's title-game losses to New England.) Chris Mortensen of ESPN reported that Belichick has a detailed library of information on every head coach and coordinator, which could be the result of both proper and improper activities. Andrea Kremer of NBC explained that the question of additional radio frequencies relates to the suspected use of microphones on defensive linemen. Tim Brown of FOX alleged that microphones were used during the 2001 divisional playoff game between the Raiders and the Patriots. Charley Casserly of CBS spoke of Patriots employees searching locker rooms after the opposing team had headed to the field, finding things such as the initial offensive plays drawn on a chalkboard.

Chances are that somewhere, somehow someone is going to blow the lid off of one or more of these accusations with conclusive proof. There's simply too much smoke to believe that there isn't additional fire. The issue is when and if someone who was directly involved in one or more of these activities will talk about it on the record.

revefsreleets
09-17-2007, 07:55 PM
Sure, and why not? If you can get away with A, why not B and C and D and who knows what else?

ShutDown24
09-17-2007, 07:58 PM
It just keeps coming and coming. Despite the teams success on the field I don't think this scandal is going to go away for a long, long time. If ever.

Atlanta Dan
09-17-2007, 08:01 PM
I would bring every Pats defensive player who took the field last week in, ask them if they were miked, and tell them if the league ever finds out they are not being truthful that it will not be pleasant.

Of course this is why you execute search warrants rather than serve subpoenas in criminal investigations - those audio recordings and the computers on which the audio files were stored (did anyone catch the photos of the defense at the snap coming out of that printer on the sidelines last night? - some serious technology being used here) have been wiped clean and are buried in a landfill..

tony hipchest
09-17-2007, 08:27 PM
The one arguement that I have heard about all this is that it is partly the other teams fault for not changing their signals.

the old "blame the rape victim, for wearing too short of a skirt" argument, huh?

TroysBadDawg
09-17-2007, 09:21 PM
Well I heard today on the radio, or was it yesterday? They said that receivers in the helmet of the defensive will be the priority next year at the owners meeting. That is only failed by two votes this year. So what is stopping a billacheat from getting a scanner and stealling the radio signal calls? Maybe if they were scrambled but then how big would the scrambler have to be and with Krafts money why couldn't they also get a descrambler?

stlrtruck
09-17-2007, 10:22 PM
The NFL may want to sweep this under rug as quickly as possible but the fans outside of the snug NE market will now look at the coach and the players as cheats. And I think it's great - the so called genius gets caught cheating and now he's so afraid to answer a damn question. He's turned into a sleeveless hoodie wearing punk and his team is no better.

jjpro11
09-17-2007, 11:05 PM
I would bring every Pats defensive player who took the field last week in, ask them if they were miked, and tell them if the league ever finds out they are not being truthful that it will not be pleasant.

Of course this is why you execute search warrants rather than serve subpoenas in criminal investigations - those audio recordings and the computers on which the audio files were stored (did anyone catch the photos of the defense at the snap coming out of that printer on the sidelines last night? - some serious technology being used here) have been wiped clean and are buried in a landfill..

there are programs out there to recover deleted files.. but i do not know to what extent they would go to in order to get rid of the evidence or how its saved.