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lamberts-lost-tooth
09-18-2007, 11:22 AM
Bengals head coach on defensive amid, criticism from radio, Internet media.

CINCINNATI ? Monday was not a good day for Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis.

The CNNSI Web site listed him among NFL coaches "on the hot seat" and Cincinnati sports-talk show host Lance McAlister criticized him for being "smug and condescending" toward the media.

Some highlights from Lewis' news conference:

? On when fans will see the fruits of what the players call "easily fixable" mistakes by the defense:

"You just wrote all about it last week ? '85 Bears a week ago. As I tell (the players) all the time, No. 1, 'Don't try to explain it to (the media) because (they) don't understand it.' Secondly, 'We're not as good as you think you are or as bad.' We'll make our corrections and move forward."

? On the players saying some negative publicity will be good for them:

"I'm not worried about what kind of publicity we get. If you look at the difference between the headlines of our area and the headlines (in Cleveland), you would think they had shut us out. That's the difference a few points make. We take our medicine and move forward."

? On the biggest reason players make mental errors.

"Again, trying to invent and create a revision on their own because you're trying to overcome somebody else's deficiency or what he didn't do right. Just do your job. Don't try to do too much."

? On why he didn't challenge the referee's spot on Braylon Edwards' phantom first down with 3:11 to go:

"He ruled forward progress, and thus the ball's spot, and that's where he put it. So at that point, it's kind of a dead issue."

? On the special teams giving up 451 yards in returns in two weeks because defenders are not staying in their lanes and getting sealed off:

"Your very elementary assessment of it is a little off-base. But we've got to do better."

? On why left tackle Levi Jones isn't in the starting lineup:

"His status is what it is. He's competing for a position and working hard to get himself back and earn his job back. That's what he's doing. He's working hard."

? On national sportscasters, including ex-Steelers coach Bill Cowher, saying Chad Johnson's antics are something Lewis condones.

"You know better than that, so why ask me that question? I think Bill knows better than that, too. It's unfortunate he said that. He would know better than that because he knows me as well. He's coached Chad in the Pro Bowl, and all he had to say were glowing things about Chad. Now (Cowher) he's in a position where he can create controversy."

? On if he takes the defense's problems personally and if there's a chance he'll be calling defensive signals like he did in 2004?

"I'm not going to respond to that. I do take it personally. I'll respond to that part."

tony hipchest
09-18-2007, 11:30 AM
"You know better than that, so why ask me that question? I think Bill knows better than that, too. It's unfortunate he said that. He would know better than that because he knows me as well. He's coached Chad in the Pro Bowl, and all he had to say were glowing things about Chad. Now (Cowher) he's in a position where he can create controversy." and here i thought it was chad creating the controversy by acting like an ass and making his individual accomplishments and accolades more important than team goals.

thank for clearing that up reverand attorney marv. its cowhers fault. :thumbsup:

i think all the "black heyzeuz" talk is starting to die down a bit in ohio, and a small portion of the fans with more than 3 brain cells are realizing he has got to be one of the most horrible coaches in the league.

thats ok though bunglefans. you can still watch tomlin with envy from afar.

ShutDown24
09-18-2007, 11:36 AM
The Bungles are a joke. I don't even pay attention to them at all anymore. They have a bad coach, a horrible defense and an offense that cares more about stats than winning.

fansince'76
09-18-2007, 11:37 AM
And Nero fiddled while Rome burned.... :violin:

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-18-2007, 11:46 AM
And Nero fiddled while Rome burned.... :violin:

,,,and Lewis fiddled as his secondary got burned....:violin:

Atlanta Dan
09-18-2007, 12:59 PM
IMO Cowher and Lewis burned their bridges to each other during the 2005 season after the Bengals acted up after the December win at Heinz, Cowher returned the favor with the "who dey" chant in the locker room after the playoff win, and Lewis accused Ben of whining about cheap shots in response to Palmer's injury.

Lewis knows he is in trouble - wonder if he already has been asked about Esiason saying the Bengals will be the disappoinment of 2007?

CantStop85
09-18-2007, 01:14 PM
I actually listened to this press conference live and Marvin Lewis was nothing short of an *******. He insulted the media's intelligence on several occasions and made a lot of irrelevant jokes which he laughed at quite smugly. The radio shows have been bashing Marvin pretty hardcore lately.

As far as the Bengals as a team go, the best reasoning I've heard so far is that they have a 12-4 offense and a 4-12 defense, thus they balance out at about an 8-8 team. Many people have started saying that the Bengals resurgence hasn't been because of Marvin as many people believed before but because of Carson Palmer...without him they would still be a 4,5,6 win team with Marvin as coach.

MACH1
09-18-2007, 01:29 PM
and here i thought it was chad creating the controversy by acting like an ass and making his individual accomplishments and accolades more important than team goals.

thank for clearing that up reverand attorney marv. its cowhers fault. :thumbsup:

i think all the "black heyzeuz" talk is starting to die down a bit in ohio, and a small portion of the fans with more than 3 brain cells are realizing he has got to be one of the most horrible coaches in the league.

thats ok though bunglefans. you can still watch tomlin with envy from afar.

I love it that the root of their problems always is linked somehow someway to being the steelers fault.

Or crooked cops. :toofunny:

X-Terminator
09-18-2007, 01:33 PM
I actually listened to this press conference live and Marvin Lewis was nothing short of an *******. He insulted the media's intelligence on several occasions and made a lot of irrelevant jokes which he laughed at quite smugly. The radio shows have been bashing Marvin pretty hardcore lately.

As far as the Bengals as a team go, the best reasoning I've heard so far is that they have a 12-4 offense and a 4-12 defense, thus they balance out at about an 8-8 team. Many people have started saying that the Bengals resurgence hasn't been because of Marvin as many people believed before but because of Carson Palmer...without him they would still be a 4,5,6 win team with Marvin as coach.

That is a pretty good assessment there, CS. Palmer is the reason why the Bungles are somewhere around mediocre, but he cannot do it all by himself. It's like I said in the Bungles/Brownies thread - it doesn't matter how many points you can score, if you can't stop the other team, you aren't going to win consistently. It's as simple as that.

I'd say if the Bungles lose their next 2 games, Uncle Marv will really be feeling the heat.

ShutDown24
09-18-2007, 01:50 PM
I actually listened to this press conference live and Marvin Lewis was nothing short of an *******. He insulted the media's intelligence on several occasions and made a lot of irrelevant jokes which he laughed at quite smugly. The radio shows have been bashing Marvin pretty hardcore lately.

As far as the Bengals as a team go, the best reasoning I've heard so far is that they have a 12-4 offense and a 4-12 defense, thus they balance out at about an 8-8 team. Many people have started saying that the Bengals resurgence hasn't been because of Marvin as many people believed before but because of Carson Palmer...without him they would still be a 4,5,6 win team with Marvin as coach.


Good post. I still don't understand why this organization operates the way it does... Without Palmer, this team is way less than mediocre.

Let's look at the draft

1. Leon Hall good pick, he should be able to help the team?s god awful defense.

2. Kenny Irons?

I am not even going to go past this pick. If all the reports that Rudi Johnson is still a great back are true then why did the team go here? What in the world is going on with Chris Perry? Wasn't he a first round pick?

The situation with this team is laughable... They had one good year where the offense completely carried the team and the D to some extent over achieved and what since that point? Nothing. They got over confident, Marvin Lewis still thinks they are a playoff team and Chad is proclaiming himself to be a HOFer before he even gets his first playoff win.

The to do list for the Bengals should be as follows.

1. Consider your options at the head coaching position.

2. FIX THE DEFENSE. Trade some guys away, god knows you don't need help on offense. This also presents an opportunity to clean up the image a bit - Trade Chris Henry... He could start for a few teams.

3. Give Palmer even more input about everything - The offense, the players he likes / doesn't and just the team in general. Right now I think Palmer could coach this team better than Lewis.

I would put Houshmanzada on the block (May tick Chad off but who cares, all this guy does is whine) I would put Henry as well as Perry (If he is still even on the team) on the block.

Get some LBers for god's sake. Odell is unreliable, Hartwell is injury prone and I haven't seen him yet this season despite the fact that you paid him all kinds of money. The Bungles could have signed a run stopper in Trotter but missed their chance on that too...

I just don't get anything that happens in Cincinnati anymore. So much for the young, good Steelers - Bengals rivalry... :dang:

Edman
09-18-2007, 02:34 PM
Cincy can have all the offense in the world, but until their D steps up their game, they will go nowhere. Offense sells tickets, Defense wins championships. Marlew should know that. He was the DC for the 2000 Ravens record-setting D.

rog
09-18-2007, 03:36 PM
Smug and condescending is an understatement when it comes to this jackass.

CantStop85
09-18-2007, 04:49 PM
2. Kenny Irons?

I am not even going to go past this pick. If all the reports that Rudi Johnson is still a great back are true then why did the team go here? What in the world is going on with Chris Perry? Wasn't he a first round pick?
Rudi is still a great back, but over the last 4 years or so he's had more carries than any back in the league. You have to believe that's gonna take a toll on him eventually. Kenny Irons was a logical pick at that spot being that there weren't really any good defensive options at that point and Chris Perry couldn't stay healthy if his life depended on it. Had Kenny not gotten injured, it would have been a good pick as he would've ideally taken some of the workload off of Rudi.

The to do list for the Bengals should be as follows.

1. Consider your options at the head coaching position.
I think this is the make-or-break year for Marvin. If he doesn't lead a team with as much talent as the Bengals to at least a wildcard berth, then he really isn't getting the job done.


2. FIX THE DEFENSE. Trade some guys away, god knows you don't need help on offense. This also presents an opportunity to clean up the image a bit - Trade Chris Henry... He could start for a few teams.
That would be an ideal situation, but good quality trades are hard to come by these days. The only way the Bengals could get better is if they traded for a stud defensive player and what all would they have to give up to get that? In a perfect world you could trade away TJ because you have Chris Henry who's younger and got more potential, but can he stay out of trouble long enough to get on the field? Trading Chris Henry would be tough, because very few teams would be willing to take his baggage and give up very much value for him.

3. Give Palmer even more input about everything - The offense, the players he likes / doesn't and just the team in general. Right now I think Palmer could coach this team better than Lewis.
I think Palmer should have free reign as far as the offense goes. Actually, up to this point, he has had quite a bit of control over the offense. In the offseason he lobbied the Bengals to bring back Kenny Watson and Reggie Kelly and they did. And the majority of the time on offense Carson is calling his own plays.


Get some LBers for god's sake. Odell is unreliable, Hartwell is injury prone and I haven't seen him yet this season despite the fact that you paid him all kinds of money. The Bungles could have signed a run stopper in Trotter but missed their chance on that too...
Ed Hartwell isn't on the team anymore and the Bengals didn't pay him much to begin with. He was cut before the regular season began. The Bengals passed on Trotter and picked up Lemar Marshall, who has been a pretty solid player up to this point. One of the Bengals' problems is that they were expecting Odell to be available this season and when he wasn't it left them scrambling to fill spots. Ahmad Brooks showed a lot of promise in the first game against the Ravens, but then missed the Browns game (hopefully there's a correlation with the results there). But other than Brooks, they really don't have any game-changing players in the linebacking corps (players that Odell and Pollack were supposed to be).

I just don't get anything that happens in Cincinnati anymore. So much for the young, good Steelers - Bengals rivalry... :dang:
The extent of the Bengals problems is this: they need to play decent defense. You have guys missing tackles, guys making rookie mistakes, and guys not getting to the quarterback. But I think the main problem is the playcalling...I'm really starting to question Chuck Bresnahan's defensive schemes. If things don't start improving, maybe Marvin should pull a Billick, fire the Bresnahan, and start calling the plays himself, being that he is a "defensive genius."

ShutDown24
09-18-2007, 05:43 PM
Rudi is still a great back, but over the last 4 years or so he's had more carries than any back in the league. You have to believe that's gonna take a toll on him eventually. Kenny Irons was a logical pick at that spot being that there weren't really any good defensive options at that point and Chris Perry couldn't stay healthy if his life depended on it. Had Kenny not gotten injured, it would have been a good pick as he would've ideally taken some of the workload off of Rudi.


I think this is the make-or-break year for Marvin. If he doesn't lead a team with as much talent as the Bengals to at least a wildcard berth, then he really isn't getting the job done.


That would be an ideal situation, but good quality trades are hard to come by these days. The only way the Bengals could get better is if they traded for a stud defensive player and what all would they have to give up to get that? In a perfect world you could trade away TJ because you have Chris Henry who's younger and got more potential, but can he stay out of trouble long enough to get on the field? Trading Chris Henry would be tough, because very few teams would be willing to take his baggage and give up very much value for him.


I think Palmer should have free reign as far as the offense goes. Actually, up to this point, he has had quite a bit of control over the offense. In the offseason he lobbied the Bengals to bring back Kenny Watson and Reggie Kelly and they did. And the majority of the time on offense Carson is calling his own plays.


Ed Hartwell isn't on the team anymore and the Bengals didn't pay him much to begin with. He was cut before the regular season began. The Bengals passed on Trotter and picked up Lemar Marshall, who has been a pretty solid player up to this point. One of the Bengals' problems is that they were expecting Odell to be available this season and when he wasn't it left them scrambling to fill spots. Ahmad Brooks showed a lot of promise in the first game against the Ravens, but then missed the Browns game (hopefully there's a correlation with the results there). But other than Brooks, they really don't have any game-changing players in the linebacking corps (players that Odell and Pollack were supposed to be).


The extent of the Bengals problems is this: they need to play decent defense. You have guys missing tackles, guys making rookie mistakes, and guys not getting to the quarterback. But I think the main problem is the playcalling...I'm really starting to question Chuck Bresnahan's defensive schemes. If things don't start improving, maybe Marvin should pull a Billick, fire the Bresnahan, and start calling the plays himself, being that he is a "defensive genius."

That was my point about Rudi - everything you hear coming out of Cincy (nationally) is that he is still a beast. That's why, even though I personally believed he was slowing down just a bit last season; I was surprised they took Irons just based on that popular belief.

I haven't seen anything since early 05' that supports Lewis as a decent HC.

I honestly think Henry, if indeed he could stay out of trouble, is a better receiver than TJ... But seeing as I really don't think the team would trade Housh (Chad wouldn't allow it =P) I thought trading Henry was a more practical suggestion. Lol - I bet the Eagles would take him. Also, Dallas just signed Tank so... There isn't a complete boycott on troubled guys...

The only thing with Palmer right now is the question that Manning had - Can he win when it counts? I believe that if the situation came along he could. But we still have to see that from him.

Hartwell got cut? The numbers I saw when he was first signed away from the Falcons suggested that he would get a fair amount of playing time... But who knows, I guess most of that money could have been circumstantial.

If the team could fix its defense, and prove they can play in January then I think we could talk... But until then - Same old bungles... -Good talk

polamalufan43
09-18-2007, 05:51 PM
Lewis answers are somewhat interesting for me. That's all I'll say:coffee::rolleyes:

revefsreleets
09-18-2007, 06:29 PM
Why not face the facts? Lewis lost control of his team late in the 2005 season. When Chad is running around on the sideline in future HOF crap, he's a distraction (In Cincy they are probably just happy he's not clocking coaches in the locker room). When your team is slapping itself on the back because they've only had one arrest in the last few months that's a bad thing. When you let Cleveland's mediocre offense run roughshod over you in a game you should be win by 14 points, you are in trouble. To be honest, outside of a few players, I'm not even sure the Bengals are all that talented. Name me even two Bengals defensive players who could take their counterparts jobs on the Steelers? There aren't more on the offensive side either, when you figure in other issues.

ShutDown24
09-18-2007, 07:31 PM
Why not face the facts? Lewis lost control of his team late in the 2005 season. When Chad is running around on the sideline in future HOF crap, he's a distraction (In Cincy they are probably just happy he's not clocking coaches in the locker room). When your team is slapping itself on the back because they've only had one arrest in the last few months that's a bad thing. When you let Cleveland's mediocre offense run roughshod over you in a game you should be win by 14 points, you are in trouble. To be honest, outside of a few players, I'm not even sure the Bengals are all that talented. Name me even two Bengals defensive players who could take their counterparts jobs on the Steelers? There aren't more on the offensive side either, when you figure in other issues.

Very true.

CantStop85
09-18-2007, 08:58 PM
Why not face the facts? Lewis lost control of his team late in the 2005 season. When Chad is running around on the sideline in future HOF crap, he's a distraction (In Cincy they are probably just happy he's not clocking coaches in the locker room). When your team is slapping itself on the back because they've only had one arrest in the last few months that's a bad thing. When you let Cleveland's mediocre offense run roughshod over you in a game you should be win by 14 points, you are in trouble. To be honest, outside of a few players, I'm not even sure the Bengals are all that talented. Name me even two Bengals defensive players who could take their counterparts jobs on the Steelers?

The Bengals problems are on defense...it's not like the whole team is melting down....but their defense is indeed horrible.

There aren't more on the offensive side either, when you figure in other issues.
I'll give you the defense for sure, but offense? C'mon, man.
Carson Palmer > Ben Roethlisberger
Jeremi Johnson > Carey Davis
Rudi Johnson < Willie Parker
Levi Jones > Marvel Smith
Stacey Andrews < Alan Faneca
Eric Ghiaciuc > Sean Mahan
Bobbie Williams < Kendall Simmons
Willie Anderson > Willie Colon
Reggie Kelly < Heath Miller
Chad Johnson > Hines Ward
TJ Houshmandzadeh > Santonio Holmes

That's 7 Bengals and 4 Steelers.

HometownGal
09-18-2007, 09:17 PM
The Bengals problems are on defense...it's not like the whole team is melting down....but their defense is indeed horrible.


I'll give you the defense for sure, but offense? C'mon, man.
Carson Palmer > Ben Roethlisberger


A Super Bowl winning QB without Pro Bowl honors vs. a Pro Bowl QB without a Super Bowl ring. Enough said.

Jeremi Johnson > Carey Davis


I may have to give you that one, though I still feel Dan Kreider is heads above Johnson and 99.9% of all FBs in the NFL.

Rudi Johnson < Willie Parker


Agreed.

B]Levi Jones[/B] > Marvel Smith


Both are Pro-Bowl tackles. Marvel Smith is one of the most underrated in the league, IMHO.

Stacey Andrews < Alan Faneca


Agreed. Hands down.

Eric Ghiaciuc > Sean Mahan


Disagree. Mahan has played very well in his first season as the Steelers starting C. That guy could stop a Mack truck.

Bobbie Williams < Kendall Simmons
Willie Anderson > Willie Colon


Agreed.

Reggie Kelly < Heath Miller


You're kidding, right? :toofunny:

Chad Johnson > Hines Ward


CJ can't smell where Hines shit last. Hines will be wearing a REAL HOF jacket one day. CJ will still be wearing his replica.

TJ Houshmandzadeh > Santonio Holmes


At this point in their respective careers, yes. Santo is going to be a Top 10 WR in the NFL in a couple of years - you heard it here first. :thumbsup:

[/QUOTE]

MasterOfPuppets
09-18-2007, 09:18 PM
The Bengals problems are on defense...it's not like the whole team is melting down....but their defense is indeed horrible.


I'll give you the defense for sure, but offense? C'mon, man.
Carson Palmer > Ben Roethlisberger
Jeremi Johnson > Carey Davis
Rudi Johnson < Willie Parker
Levi Jones > Marvel Smith
Stacey Andrews < Alan Faneca
Eric Ghiaciuc > Sean Mahan
Bobbie Williams < Kendall Simmons
Willie Anderson > Willie Colon
Reggie Kelly < Heath Miller
Chad Johnson > Hines Ward
TJ Houshmandzadeh > Santonio Holmes

That's 7 Bengals and 4 Steelers.




actually ...THAT'S...just your opinions....:coffee:

ShutDown24
09-18-2007, 09:54 PM
The Bengals problems are on defense...it's not like the whole team is melting down....but their defense is indeed horrible.


I'll give you the defense for sure, but offense? C'mon, man.
Carson Palmer > Ben Roethlisberger
Jeremi Johnson > Carey Davis
Rudi Johnson < Willie Parker
Levi Jones > Marvel Smith
Stacey Andrews < Alan Faneca
Eric Ghiaciuc > Sean Mahan
Bobbie Williams < Kendall Simmons
Willie Anderson > Willie Colon
Reggie Kelly < Heath Miller
Chad Johnson > Hines Ward
TJ Houshmandzadeh > Santonio Holmes

That's 7 Bengals and 4 Steelers.

QB - When they are at their best, your opinion on starting quarterback is laughable. Palmer = Stats. Ben = wins. Ben wins.

HB - Parker hands down

FB - Hmm... Johnson has the blocking edge over Davis, but Kreider is a top 5 pure blocking fullback EASY. Kreider beats out both of them as a blocker.

WR - Stats = Johnson. Blocking, tough catches, YAC = Hines. If you like stats and only big plays Johnson is your guy... me? I’ll take the better all around player any day. Winner = Hines. Holmes has more upside than Douschmanzada has letters in his name. Winner = Holmes.

Tackle could go either way, Smith is a better run blocker - Don't even try and argue that point, unless you study film like I do (usually, haven't done so much this season due to bad competition) you wouldn't catch the difference. Jones is a better pass blocker by a bit, who you want depends on your offensive philosophy.

Faneca could coach the Bengals guards.

Simmons wins easy.

Mahan isn't far off, but just from an experience standpoint - Ghiaciuc wins.

Reggie Kelly doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Heath Miller. Miller wins... Probably Spaeth and Tuman as well.

So let’s see... It all comes down to this...

Stats = Bengals, Rings = Steelers.

sixstringlass
09-18-2007, 10:09 PM
Stats = Bengals, Rings = Steelers.

Well said...:cheers:

CantStop85
09-18-2007, 10:57 PM
A Super Bowl winning QB without Pro Bowl honors vs. a Pro Bowl QB without a Super Bowl ring. Enough said.
Anyone outside of the Steeler nation would laugh at that logic. I guess Ben Roethlisberger is better than Dan Marino and Peyton Manning before last season too? :sofunny:

You're kidding, right? :toofunny:
What? I said Heath Miller is better than Reggie Kelly...do you not agree? :dang:

CJ can't smell where Hines shit last. Hines will be wearing a REAL HOF jacket one day. CJ will still be wearing his replica.
CJ is arguably the best wide receiver in the league right now...Hines is great, don't get me wrong, but Chad gets the edge.

fansince'76
09-18-2007, 11:21 PM
I guess Ben Roethlisberger is better than Dan Marino and Peyton Manning before last season too? :sofunny:

Nope, but neither is Palmer, and you're the one being a delusional homer if you think he is. :coffee:

tony hipchest
09-18-2007, 11:24 PM
CJ is arguably the best wide receiver in the league right now...Hines is great, don't get me wrong, but Chad gets the edge.i would take a healthy moss over chad any day. it really comes down to whether you prefer a prick or a douchebag on your team. after that, i dont even put johnson in the same conversation as s. smith, m. harrison, t. holt, T.O. or hines. of course they can come up big when it counts.

a. johnson, l. fitzgerald, r. williams would leave johnson in the dust with a complete offense (or even a team that could manage going 8-8 three out of the 4 past years.

that aside, all educated bungle fans have a right to be pissed at marv. not only did he treat the media as idiots, he treated the whole fan base as idiots, after all the media is link between the team and the fans.

its all about accountability. i had to listen to the pittsburgh media grill tomlin for not throwing a flag on a questionable play and for having to use all 3 time outs in the 1st half of last sundays games.

granted tomlin will never face the tough questions lewis or belichick have had to face in the past week, but its nice to know they wouldnt be dodged, and he would be accountable, if ever put in that position.

stillers4me
09-19-2007, 06:53 AM
that aside, all educated bungle fans have a right to be pissed at marv. not only did he treat the media as idiots, he treated the whole fan base as idiots, after all the media is link between the team and the fans.

Believe it or not (and yeah......I know it's hard to believe :dang:) the fan base is supporting Marvin. The radio jocks had people calling in all day saying how great they still think ole Marv is. Sounds like the media is the only one with any brains in this town. (besides us Steelers fans)
---------------------------------
Doc: Give media, fans some credit
BY PAUL DAUGHERTY | PDAUGHERTY@ENQUIRER.COM


For five years, Marvin Lewis has been the beneficiary of fawning local media, yours truly included. A 12-year Bengals beatdown before Lewis arrived made those of us who survived it grateful for small favors, such as the miracle of 8-8. This ain?t New York or Philly. Marvin?s had it easy around here.

For that, we get this, on Monday:

?I tell (players) all the time, ?Don?t try to explain it to (media), because (media) won?t understand it?,? Lewis said.

No, probably not. Football is a game for scholars. Here?s something else that escaped the stupid media?s grasp, and maybe yours, too:

How a guy with three career starts at quarterback could tear up the Bengals defense for three and a half quarters. How a Cleveland team a few bad plays from Three Mile Island could drop a 51-45 embarrassment on Marvin?s Bengals. And why, week after year, we try to make sense of the lame and the obvious:

?We just have to play better? is frequently paired with ?We just have to keep playing? and is often followed by ?we?re going to move forward.?

Those answers might insult the media?s intelligence. If we had any.

Look: I like Lewis as much as anyone. He?s done a good job here. Given the organization for which he works, he?s done a very good job. But treating the fawning media like a footwipe isn?t necessary, OK?

Some coaches play the media like a Gibson Les Paul. (See: Kelly, Brian.) Some coaches use their media sessions like couch trips. (See: Huggins, Bob, and Piniella, Lou.) Some use them to send messages to their players. Jack McKeon did that. Marvin Lewis considers dealing with the media en masse a waste of time, like trying to teach Spanish to an English muffin.

Fair enough. But dealing with us dull-normal media dopes is part of the job description. Why not make the best of it?

I wanted to know Monday what is the biggest reason players make mental errors. An OK inquiry, from an idiot media guy, if only because we?ve heard about mental errors since, well, since the Bengals lost the ?88 Super Bowl. It seems to me that people making mental errors might, at some point, learn to make fewer of them or, at some other point, get canned, so that the incredibly complicated game of football might proceed with fewer mental errors.

But what do I know?

Lewis answered my inane question by saying his players stopped doing their own jobs and started freelancing. Actually, he said, they were attempting to ?invent and create a revision. We?re trying to overcome someone else?s deficiencies.? The key, the coach said, was to ?not try and deviate to try and compensate.?

I took my thick self to John Thornton, armed with the same bad question.

?Mental errors come in when people get rattled and forget what they?ve learned. When games get tough, you need the ability to settle down,? the Bengals defensive tackle said. ?All we had to do Sunday was settle down, instead of worrying about what just happened. I mean, who cares? We still had a chance. A lot of people just sort of lost it mentally.?

Same question, Bryan Robinson:

?You should know where you need to be,? said Robinson. ?It?s pretty simple. You have a gap, you stay in your gap. You don?t do another guy?s job. They say there is no bad call, just bad execution. Yesterday, that was true.?

There you have it. What it came down to Sunday was not a bad game plan or calling the wrong defense or Fire Chuck Bresnahan. It was players who allowed the heretofore lousy Cleveland offense to beat them and rattle them and cause them to do things they shouldn?t do. Play properly the defense that?s called, and Derek Anderson doesn?t mess with you like you?re a third-teamer.

That?s my take. Believe what you want. I really don?t understand much.

Buzz05
09-19-2007, 08:35 AM
Ok seriously. Is anyone surprised by this? Im not. Its Marvin Lewis...the master of passing on the blame. Not once has he said anything is his fault. And personally I think he passes that down to his players. After all look at Palmer after they got beat by the Ravens last year in Baltimore with his 'We are the better team' comment. It all starts with the head coach and trickles down. Whether it be class or something else.

Just remember....Crap rolls down hill and in Marvins case it seems like he is the one at the top pushing it.

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-19-2007, 08:58 AM
Lets also not forget that Lewis's drafts have also been less than steller. A few more years of thugs and maybe one quality-character, talented player every two years will bring this team crashing to the ground.

If I'm not mistaken Lebeau drafted...Chad Johnson....T.J. Houshmandzadeh....Rudi Johnson....Justin Smith....Levi Jones...

Lebeau also stated that he was prepared to draft Carson Palmer with the 1st pick in 2003....Make no mistake about it...It was Lebeau who gave them the building blocks to at least be competitive even though Lewis is more than happy to let the Bungal-peasants bow at his feet and kiss the royal hand.

revefsreleets
09-19-2007, 09:09 AM
Hey! I said issues aside. So toss out the retarded thug Johnson and his tutor and handler TJ. The oline in Cincy is wildly overrated, with only Willie Anderson possibly living up to the hype. Jeremi Johnson over Carey Davis? Sure (chuckling) you can have that one LOL. And I'm not so sure about Carson over Ben, either. I don't think Palmer is a good fit for the Steelers, but I think Ben could play in any system. Regardless, I don't think you'll find many Steelers fans who would be willing to trade any more than one or two players for what the Bengals have. On defense? Fugetaboutit!

ShutDown24
09-19-2007, 09:30 AM
Anyone outside of the Steeler nation would laugh at that logic. I guess Ben Roethlisberger is better than Dan Marino and Peyton Manning before last season too? :sofunny:


What? I said Heath Miller is better than Reggie Kelly...do you not agree? :dang:


CJ is arguably the best wide receiver in the league right now...Hines is great, don't get me wrong, but Chad gets the edge.

No he is not better than either of them (yet). But he is better than Palmer if you want to win. Ben can win games that Palmer only puts up big stats in (Bengals VS Browns anyone???)...

She was laughing at the fact that there was even enough competition to mention Kelly I think lol....

I can name about 10 receivers before Johnson that I would rather have. He had a few drops in your last game, isn't a sound run blocker, talks up his play way higher than it actually is, gets injured (Or nearly) injured too often. I would always take the better all around player over the better pass catcher. Even if we were strictly debating the route running/pass catching part of the position Randy Moss is a better player right now.

Like I said above... No matter what you are debating about Steelers/Bengals it always comes down to...

Bengals = Stats, Steelers = Rings. End of story.

HometownGal
09-19-2007, 10:00 AM
Anyone outside of the Steeler nation would laugh at that logic. I guess Ben Roethlisberger is better than Dan Marino and Peyton Manning before last season too? :sofunny:


Don't put words in my mouth, CS - I didn't say that. I was making a comparison between Ben and Cartoon and my opinion on that comparison stands. :flap:

What? I said Heath Miller is better than Reggie Kelly...do you not agree? :dang:


My eyes deceived me in viewing your original post, CS. My apologies. :nw:

CJ is arguably the best wide receiver in the league right now...Hines is great, don't get me wrong, but Chad gets the edge.

CJ may be the biggest assclown in the league, but those not on the Bungle bandwagon would disagree with you. Yes - Hines is great and there is no way in hell that CJ is in the "great" category. CJ is good for some laughs every season when the Bungles play the Steelers, though - talking all of that pre-game trash about how he's going to burn our secondary, only to get owned and bitch slapped around again. :toofunny::toofunny:

Actually, I believe IBoinkedMarv'sMama is the better of the two receivers, but I still don't put him anywhere near Hines' status as a wideout.

CJ and TJ (don't ya just wanna honk their noses?) :toofunny::

http://www.franklesser.com/black_clown_college_files/black_clown_college.jpg

CantStop85
09-19-2007, 10:32 AM
No he is not better than either of them (yet). But he is better than Palmer if you want to win. Ben can win games that Palmer only puts up big stats in (Bengals VS Browns anyone???)...
Ben can win games because he actually has a defense. It should never be a quarterback's fault that a team loses a game when he throws 6 touchdown passes.

Are you saying that if Ben played for the Bengals, he would have been able to improve on a 113.4 rating, 401 yards, and 6 touchdowns and single-handedly win that game?


I can name about 10 receivers before Johnson that I would rather have. He had a few drops in your last game, isn't a sound run blocker, talks up his play way higher than it actually is, gets injured (Or nearly) injured too often. I would always take the better all around player over the better pass catcher. Even if we were strictly debating the route running/pass catching part of the position Randy Moss is a better player right now.
I just don't get it...Chad isn't an elite receiver because of his antics? Let's put out the facts here...he's led the AFC in receiving yard the past 4 years, he led the entire NFL in receiving yards last year, and he's already leading the NFL in receiving yards through 2 games this season.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Chad doesn't have a ring...but Chad also doesn't have a complete team to back him up.

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-19-2007, 10:44 AM
Bottom line:

Ben= Great QB
Carson= Great QB
Ward=Elite Overachiever
Chad=Extremely talented self-promotor

Marvin Lewis=Overrated arrogant hypocrite.

'nuff said...

MACH1
09-19-2007, 10:55 AM
Lets make it simple.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/38/96090985_d9d004c24b.jpg

http://www.bustedplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/chad.jpg

CantStop85
09-19-2007, 10:55 AM
Bottom line:

Ben= Great QB
Carson= Great QB
Ward=Elite Overachiever
Chad=Extremely talented self-promotor

Marvin Lewis=Overrated arrogant hypocrite.

'nuff said...

Eh, I can live with that assessment. :flap:

tony hipchest
09-19-2007, 12:22 PM
Ben can win games because he actually has a defense. It should never be a quarterback's fault that a team loses a game when he throws 6 touchdown passes.

Are you saying that if Ben played for the Bengals, he would have been able to improve on a 113.4 rating, 401 yards, and 6 touchdowns and single-handedly win that game?

uh yeah! do you really think carson palmer is the only qb in the nfl skilled enough to play arena ball? :toofunny:

heres a clue. arena football is the minors.

ben esilly went out and threw 4 tds against the same browns in a little over 3 quarters of work.

the previous time ben played the browns he hung 224 and 3 tds on them in the 4th quarter alone! .

ben has 1 int on the season, and carson had 2 in that game alone.

theres all the proof you need that ben couldve increased carsons passer rating, chuck it for multiple td's, and still win the game single handedly.

CantStop85
09-19-2007, 01:08 PM
uh yeah! do you really think carson palmer is the only qb in the nfl skilled enough to play arena ball? :toofunny:

heres a clue. arena football is the minors.

ben esilly went out and threw 4 tds against the same browns in a little over 3 quarters of work.

the previous time ben played the browns he hung 224 and 3 tds on them in the 4th quarter alone! .

ben has 1 int on the season, and carson had 2 in that game alone.

theres all the proof you need that ben couldve increased carsons passer rating, chuck it for multiple td's, and still win the game single handedly.

You're right...Ben's 161 passing yards and 52% completion percentage are just too overwhelming.

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-19-2007, 01:12 PM
You're right...Ben's 161 passing yards and 52% completion percentage are just too overwhelming.

I wouldnt use stats to back your claim because the bottom line will ALWAYS come back to:

Ben: 2-0
Carson: 1-1

tony hipchest
09-19-2007, 01:12 PM
You're right...Ben's 161 passing yards and 52% completion percentage are just too overwhelming.

bens last 4 quarters vs. browns- 385 yds 7td

face it. when carson was given the opportunity to put together a game winning drive against the lowly browns, he threw it away in the form of a game ending interception.

facts are facts.

ShutDown24
09-19-2007, 01:26 PM
IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THIS -

Carson Palmer historically fails in game winning drives. Ben historically wins in game winning drives.

Bengals = Stats - Steelers = Rings.