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View Full Version : Fellow SF Members.......I Have A Question?


Black@Gold Forever32
09-21-2007, 04:49 PM
I was in a pretty heated argument with a fellow Steelers fan in the other Steelers site I post on....This guy has his own site steelersfury.com.....So he is one of those self proclaimed know it alls....But anyway he stated Jason Gildon was nothing more then a product of the Steelers defensive system and that LaMarr Woodley would be out of the NFL by 2011....lol I just thought that was total crap on both accounts and wonder what you all thought about these two topics as well...So was Jason Gildon a product of the system?

I know the 3-4 is designed for OLBs to make plays...But if a player posts 77 career sacks like Gildon did proves to me he was a good football player and not just a product of the system.....Its not like Alonzo Jackson went out there and posted 77 career sacks...

As for Woodley being out of the NFL by 2011....I just find that rather laughable....and to think this so called expert said I didn't even have an elemantary knowledge of the game....:sofunny::sofunny::sofunny:

tony hipchest
09-21-2007, 05:02 PM
its tough to go from g. lloyd, l. kirkland, c. brown, and k. green to all the scrubs and "products of the systems" weve had since then, but this guy seems to have taken it extra hard.

gildon, porter, haggans, vrabel all would be 1st or 2nd round draftpicks in todays era where so many teams play 3-4.

players like k. wimbley, m. lawson, a. spencer, are all indirectly products of the "steelers system".

so he bases his take on woodley off of gildon, huh? i'll take 70+ sacks from woodley just being a system guy.

Black@Gold Forever32
09-21-2007, 05:11 PM
its tough to go from g. lloyd, l. kirkland, c. brown, and k. green to all the scrubs and "products of the systems" weve had since then, but this guy seems to have taken it extra hard.

gildon, porter, haggans, vrabel all would be 1st or 2nd round draftpicks in todays era where so many teams play 3-4.

players like k. wimbley, m. lawson, a. spencer, are all indirectly products of the "steelers system".

so he bases his take on woodley off of gildon, huh? i'll take 70+ sacks from woodley just being a system guy.

Tony....go over to SA if you want a good laugh and read his stuff...Its comical...He said 62 percent of Jason Gildon's sacks were from being unblocked.....He thinks Woodley is utter trash and doesn't have the speed or the strength to play in the NFL....He said he was another wasted pick like Scott Shields, Alonzo Jackson, Jeremy Staat......lol

I know were not going to agree with everyone...But get that system player talk for Gildon out here....I always thought he never got the just due he deserved....He was just as good as Joey Porter in my mind....Its just to bad Gildon didn't get a ring....I wonder what player he was watching from the mid 90s to the early 00s?...It sure wasn't Jason Gildon...lol

shutdown
09-21-2007, 05:16 PM
I agree with Gildon being a product of the system. Our defensive scheme and setup can definitely make a player who he is. I honestly believe it made Joey Porter better than he actually is. Look what Bell has done in K.C. It just like how Denver's system produces RB's and New Englands system makes Tom Brady look like a stud.

Yes you need at least a little bit of talent, so comparing him to Alonzo Jackson is silly and baseless. But I do believe our system makes LBs look better than they actually are.

MasterOfPuppets
09-21-2007, 05:17 PM
did you ask the tool ,if kevin green was a system guy???

Black@Gold Forever32
09-21-2007, 05:26 PM
I agree with Gildon being a product of the system. Our defensive scheme and setup can definitely make a player who he is. I honestly believe it made Joey Porter better than he actually is. Look what Bell has done in K.C. It just like how Denver's system produces RB's and New Englands system makes Tom Brady look like a stud.

Yes you need at least a little bit of talent, so comparing him to Alonzo Jackson is silly and baseless. But I do believe our system makes LBs look better than they actually are.

Yes the Steelers defensive system allows the LBs to make plays.....But 77 career sacks is nothing to sneeze at.....I don't see Clark Haggans approaching that total....That would be a nice example of a guy being a product of the Steelers system.....

Elvis
09-21-2007, 05:41 PM
Gildon was a product of the game in pittsburgh. Porter will be the same and when the Steelers get tired of Haggans not producing then he will be the same. Kendrell Bell was or is nothing more than average in Kansas City, but he did have a bad ankle injury that ended his career here in PA.
:tt02:

cubanstogie
09-21-2007, 05:43 PM
people were calling Tom Brady a product of the system a couple of years ago. I didn't understand it then and I don't now. Now he has great receivers which he never had and will even be better so what will people say now. The guy is the best QB in the league. I will hear it from the manning worshippers I'm sure. Gildon was a solid LB, that idiot can make up all the excuses he wants to about system player. Don't you think Joe Montana benefited from the west coast offense and having great RB's and the best receiver ever. So by that idiots logic Joe was a system QB and would not have succeeded elsewhere.

TheWarDen86
09-21-2007, 07:13 PM
I was in a pretty heated argument with a fellow Steelers fan in the other Steelers site I post on....This guy has his own site steelersfury.com.....So he is one of those self proclaimed know it alls....But anyway he stated Jason Gildon was nothing more then a product of the Steelers defensive system and that LaMarr Woodley would be out of the NFL by 2011....lol I just thought that was total crap on both accounts and wonder what you all thought about these two topics as well...So was Jason Gildon a product of the system?

I know the 3-4 is designed for OLBs to make plays...But if a player posts 77 career sacks like Gildon did proves to me he was a good football player and not just a product of the system.....Its not like Alonzo Jackson went out there and posted 77 career sacks...

As for Woodley being out of the NFL by 2011....I just find that rather laughable....and to think this so called expert said I didn't even have an elemantary knowledge of the game....:sofunny::sofunny::sofunny:


Did he think Carlos Emmons was a scrub too? Because he lost his job to Joey Porter when they could have easily put him on the left in stead of Gildon. Jason Gildon was a solid player. No question.

MJ5150
09-21-2007, 07:33 PM
After reading this thread......I'm putting on my Jason Gildon jersey and going out to dinner.

-Mike

BlastFurnace
09-21-2007, 07:45 PM
In the Steelers LB core over the years, I think you can make the argument that perhaps the "system" made some players stats better than they would have been under a 4-3 system, but they still needed the talent to succeed in it.

I think that players like Lloyd, Greene, and Kirkland would have been great in any system...especially Kirkland.

Players like Chad Brown, Gildon, Porter were very good pass rushers because of the feature role that the "system" provided for them. I don't think they were great linebackers because...in the case of Porter and Gildon...they were easily blocked completely out of the play on numerous occassions. Kevin Greene and Chad Brown were easily the best pass rushers in the 3-4 system out of all of them. If you want to look at a product of the Steelers system, it was Jerrol Williams of the 1992 team. He never did a thing after he left the Steelers.

Players like Earl Holmes, Kendrell Bell, and Foote have their tackle #'s inflated because the tackles are funnelled to them because of the scheme that the front 3 play in tying up blockers. I think that all of them were good linebackers, but far from great. The best inside linebacker the Steelers have had since Kirkland has easily been Farrior.

Stlrs4Life
09-21-2007, 08:59 PM
its tough to go from g. lloyd, l. kirkland, c. brown, and k. green to all the scrubs and "products of the systems" weve had since then, but this guy seems to have taken it extra hard.

gildon, porter, haggans, vrabel all would be 1st or 2nd round draftpicks in todays era where so many teams play 3-4.

players like k. wimbley, m. lawson, a. spencer, are all indirectly products of the "steelers system".

so he bases his take on woodley off of gildon, huh? i'll take 70+ sacks from woodley just being a system guy.



I agree tony. Gildon had his days, but in time wasn't as good as he was. Look at we all thought Kendrell Bell was. He hasn't done much for KC. So, in a way, the guy is correct, but like tony said, being a little hard. As far as Woodley, I do believe he will be in the league past 2011.

tony hipchest
09-21-2007, 09:04 PM
I agree tony. Gildon had his days, but in time wasn't as good as he was. Look at we all thought Kendrell Bell was. He hasn't done much for KC. So, in a way, the guy is correct, but like tony said, being a little hard. As far as Woodley, I do believe he will be in the league past 2011.if the steelers let him walk before then, the patriots will certainly have a roster spot waiting...

MasterOfPuppets
09-21-2007, 09:16 PM
isn't everyone in a sence,a "system player " ? take a 4 - 3 linebacker and put him in a 3 - 4 defense , and i bet most go to shit too. remember all the bitchin ray lewis did when the ratbirds changed thier D ? he whinned and cried when he lost his fatass in front of him to keep the would be blockers at bay !!! you draft players to fit YOUR system , and you put them in positions that play to THIER strenghs . woodly and timmons are perfect examples. both are outside lber's , but they will play completly different roles, just as gildon and llyod did.

OptionCoach
09-22-2007, 01:55 AM
Did he think Carlos Emmons was a scrub too? Because he lost his job to Joey Porter when they could have easily put him on the left in stead of Gildon. Jason Gildon was a solid player. No question.


Gildon was a solid player, except for his last 3 years with the team. There is no question that he was utter poo at the end, IMHO

Galax Steeler
09-22-2007, 04:03 AM
I can see woodley being around for some time I think that guy is smoking some crack.

Indy_Steelers
09-22-2007, 04:20 AM
Greg Lloyd said that Gildon was the best linebacker that he has ever seen.

OStigers2000
09-22-2007, 01:47 PM
I was in a pretty heated argument with a fellow Steelers fan in the other Steelers site I post on....This guy has his own site steelersfury.com.....So he is one of those self proclaimed know it alls....But anyway he stated Jason Gildon was nothing more then a product of the Steelers defensive system and that LaMarr Woodley would be out of the NFL by 2011....lol I just thought that was total crap on both accounts and wonder what you all thought about these two topics as well...So was Jason Gildon a product of the system?

I know the 3-4 is designed for OLBs to make plays...But if a player posts 77 career sacks like Gildon did proves to me he was a good football player and not just a product of the system.....Its not like Alonzo Jackson went out there and posted 77 career sacks...

As for Woodley being out of the NFL by 2011....I just find that rather laughable....and to think this so called expert said I didn't even have an elemantary knowledge of the game....:sofunny::sofunny::sofunny:



Ok that guy doesn't know what he is talking about. Me as a 49ers fan I was highly wanting Hybrid LB/DE L. Woodley. Out of the NFL my butt, I think this guy will be a prow bowl LB in you alls system by 2009. Great spead for the coverage, come from the outside and rush the passer and he is a good run stopping LB as well. He to me is what I call a 5 tool LB and he reminds me a lot of our M. Lawson. So I think that guy is dead wrong on that one. Pitts is known for one thing and that is making great LBs and he will be one. As for Gildon he was a beast for you all. What a good 4 years straight he registered double digit sacks for you all. Whoever wrote this article about these two is a workin retard. J. Gildon racked up 80 career sacks in 11 years and that is a solid career. Now to me he fell off his final 3 years from his original production but what player doesn't at the end of their career. Sorry but that guy has no argument what so ever to say that about Gildon and Woodley. Gilldon was great and Woodley will soon be a pro bowl LB in your system along with L. Timmons.

rog
09-22-2007, 02:18 PM
I hate this arguement for a couple of reasons. First all players are effected by the system they play in and the players around them. If your on a great team you probably look a little better than you are if you are on a bad team then maybe you are better than the total results. Second when you look back at great players that leave for another team late in their career most don't have the same sucsess. There is alot of reasons for this one they are older two they are most likely in a different system three they don't have the same players around them. You could argue that any player that only played in one system is a system player. Was Dan Fouts a system player or Montana, Young, Terrell Davis, Ray Lewis and so on and so on. Did Joe Greene make the other Dlinemen he played with better absolutly but that doesn't mean LC wasn't a great player. I believe players are what they are so when you have a guy like Gildon getting 77 sacks there is a ton of reasons why he was able to preform the way he did. He was a good football player simple as that. Yes maybe if he played on another team he might not have done as well but you can't prove it. As far as Woodley goes maybe he will be out of the league by 2011 or maybe he will be a perrenial probowler and some day break some records. You never know until it happens that is what is great about sports.

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-22-2007, 02:32 PM
Hmmmmmm...lets see.

He was selected to three Pro Bowl teams from 2000, 2001, and 2002, and is currently the Steelers all-time career sacks leader with 77.

Uh....yea.

I can only hope that Woodley will "suck" that bad.

Black@Gold Forever32
09-22-2007, 07:16 PM
I always liked Jason Gildon and thought he was very good.....I knew he didn't get his just due on a national level....but I was shocked to read a fellow Steelers fans thought that low of Gildon....

The two most under-rated Steelers since I have been following the team were Jason Gildon and Darren Perry.....Perry was another very good player that never got any credit since being in the same secondary with Rod Woodson and Carnell Lake.....

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-23-2007, 04:28 AM
I always liked Jason Gildon and thought he was very good.....I knew he didn't get his just due on a national level....but I was shocked to read a fellow Steelers fans thought that low of Gildon....

The two most under-rated Steelers since I have been following the team were Jason Gildon and Darren Perry.....Perry was another very good player that never got any credit since being in the same secondary with Rod Woodson and Carnell Lake.....

Woodson ...Lake...Perry....

You are bringing back some great memories brother!!!